Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by LilT lmao you guys always ask for Obraiks opinion and then act all outraged and disgusted when he disagrees with you.
Keep trying guys, maybe the next thread he'll be persuaded by your capital letters and between the line reading skills!!
I didn't ask for it, I actually defend him for not posting in this post... But when he spits out his Iraqi Press Minister "The Americans have been crushed" BS, I call him on it as I see it...
HAHA, all in fun Obriak but it is like this..
(As the statue is torn down behind him of Smedley)...lol
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Guys... Taking this quote out of context and reading into it don't make it true.
"We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound."
He is saying that you are debating with him that it is bad, but that he says it is good and no evidence you show him will change his or anyone at SOE's opinion. They are all telling you over and over again that the NGE is GOOD. In their minds, the game part, is not a failure. He clearly states that even in the quote you used.
He is telling you to talk to the hand because the face don't want to hear it. Take your complaints to PM, because they aren't wanted on his board. It's right there for the reading. Don't read anything into it, don't assume anything, just read what he wrote. What he wrote is that he is sorry for the way they launched their great (barf) changes on everyone and that people hated the way it was comunicated.
More of the same. The message hasn't changed since 11/15/05 - NGE is there game.
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
Only 45 peeps attended the San Diego summit? Is this true? hopefully the NGE will be pulled soon. So we can start over again without SOE
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Originally posted by Hauken Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
Only 45 peeps attended the San Diego summit? Is this true? hopefully the NGE will be pulled soon. So we can start over again without SOE
Yep, and it's a fact... It was on the SOE site even, nobody can really lie about that not even SOE..lol
It is sad though, we go from sold out Fan Fests, with over 500 people in Indy once -- to 45 people left in a empty room and 10 Devs making excuses...
Nothing to make up there, but that is what it is.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Reachwind Guys... Taking this quote out of context and reading into it don't make it true. "We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound." He is saying that you are debating with him that it is bad, but that he says it is good and no evidence you show him will change his or anyone at SOE's opinion. They are all telling you over and over again that the NGE is GOOD. In their minds, the game part, is not a failure. He clearly states that even in the quote you used. He is telling you to talk to the hand because the face don't want to hear it. Take your complaints to PM, because they aren't wanted on his board. It's right there for the reading. Don't read anything into it, don't assume anything, just read what he wrote. What he wrote is that he is sorry for the way they launched their great (barf) changes on everyone and that people hated the way it was comunicated. More of the same. The message hasn't changed since 11/15/05 - NGE is there game.
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
This really isn't anything more than just an elaborate blame game to which didn't LA start it off last week?
Originally posted by Shayde
1. Brenlo is saying this. How many times has HE been thrust foreward to say ANYTHING. He's an outsider to SWG. WHY is HE saying it? Why come out now and have a complete outsider confess to everyone it was "our bad"? HE had nothing to do with it, he's EQ's bitch.
SOE knows that SW:G post NGE is a total failure and is finally getting around to some form of damage control. Personal guess would be that Brenlo was chosen to present this "apology" letter not to regain subscriptions for SW:G but to make people go "Hey maybe SOE isn't so evil after all" and give in to trying EQ2 or the new DC Comics game. Aside from that Brenlo does work for SOE but didn't (as far as we know) have any functional role in the modifications performed towards SW:G; just imagine had TH or Helios posted this.
2. He firmly states it was $OE not LA who came up with the NGE. WHY would he take the hit? Why would he totally give the mea culpas from $OE's camp.. blaming Freeman for the design, blaming $OE for the rollout.. the bad communication?
Even though SOE developed the NGE LA still approved it to which makes them if nothing more guilty by association. Whether or not it was a forced approval is something only insiders with access to the agreement could answer. I'd go with LA asked why only 300k people subscribe to SW:G when WoW had over 5 million (majority of it from the asian market) to which SOE said we need to revamp and make the game more ground breaking. Unfortunately SOE did the as they've always done with the game and overshot development and implementation as well as underscored one of the MMO's commandments (do not toss away the veterans for a mythical audience).
3. (H)e's PROUD to work for a company that has the balls to take such chances.
Rather gutsy thing to say considering that what Brenlo considers a bold move (NGE) most in the industry outside of SOE view as suicide.
If there wasn't something BIG happening soon.. they wouldn't be saying this. Brenlo... Smed... $OE is slyly trying to get their excuses to the net beforehand so they look less like dicks. Save a bit of face.
I do agree that something big is on the way considering that both LA and SOE are now in full swing of the blame game. My guess would be that the majority of it is damage control due to the dwindling subscriptions on all SOE games (could also be because of the station access gouging) as well as trying to regain some face value for the SOE name to help bring in potential customers for Vanguard, Gods and Heros, and DC Comics. Sony as a whole is in a downward spiral and sure that massive cuts will be coming so it's CYA time for executives and producers.
Originally posted by Sago
"Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize."
Now comes the biggie. He is saying that the NGE was NOT a mistake. The mistake was in timing and communication. This speaks volumes that $OE does not think the NGE was wrong in concept or in implementation. This also tells me that with this mindset that $OE would do it again. He only says that $OE should have given the playerbase more of a warning .... communicated that it was coming better. But in essence it would have happened anyways.
My sentiments exactly as this "apology" at face seems to be admitting that they've screwed up; however, I too believe that Brenlo's statement is nothing short of pompous. Brenlo isn't saying that the NGE was a failure but their execution of the NGE was; big difference. The bad part is it seems that the NGE was going to happen whether or not some of the developers (and most of the community) wanted it or not. This it absolute rubbish considering that they had to have been warned that chasing the mythical audience was going to be the proverbial straw that will break SW:G's back. Eight months later and now not only does the blame game between companies break out but the real numbers, the numbers of those still actively subscribing to SW:G are now sitting in their face with nobody to blame (industry wise) but themselves for being short sided.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
Excellent point... here's what a good friend posted in that thread...
"Wow...
As much as I want to flame this, I'll take the opprotunity to say this:
Thank You for finally saying somehting honest about all that has happened, you personally deserve credit for that. If SOE took the step to apologize for the NGE, and not make up excuses or reasons, a lot of hate would be gone overnight. Unfortunatly, I doubt that will ever happen, and that's the only thing that can save the game... but it may even be too late for that... right now you have 300k+ gamers who HATE your company, and that will haunt you for some time."
THAT's the key... There are Hundreds of Thousands of gamers who despise them... This has NEVER happened in gaming history, and they really need to think of thier future. To have the attitude that what our players think doesn't matter as long as we have a lot of games to play is a SERIOUS gamble on their part, and one that has only worked once in history: Microsoft... and they are no Microsoft...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
how the hell did these idiots (JFreeman, and anyone that went along with him) convince themselves that LESS PROFESSIONS, LESS FEATURES, LESS RISK, LESS REWARD, LESS INTERDEPENDENCEY, LESS IMMERSION, LESS DIVERSITY, LESS VALUE TO CRAFTER & ENTERTAINERS, LESS EVERYTHING et al...would appeal to MORE PLAYERS????
more importantly, why do they still have jobs?
"We can't do this..."
"We shouldn't do this..."
Mr. Freeman should've gone with his gut instinct, it was 100% correct....
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Originally posted by dookseid Originally posted by Reachwind Guys... Taking this quote out of context and reading into it don't make it true. "We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound." He is saying that you are debating with him that it is bad, but that he says it is good and no evidence you show him will change his or anyone at SOE's opinion. They are all telling you over and over again that the NGE is GOOD. In their minds, the game part, is not a failure. He clearly states that even in the quote you used. He is telling you to talk to the hand because the face don't want to hear it. Take your complaints to PM, because they aren't wanted on his board. It's right there for the reading. Don't read anything into it, don't assume anything, just read what he wrote. What he wrote is that he is sorry for the way they launched their great (barf) changes on everyone and that people hated the way it was comunicated. More of the same. The message hasn't changed since 11/15/05 - NGE is there game.
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
Understand the sad part here being that the people LEFT IN THE GAME ALREADY ACCEPTED THE NGE, sure they hated it or some did not like that much... BUT they are already there and using it.
They have filtered out most of us with some sense of what was lost. Most of us with a more biased opinion then who is left is no longer there to defend this.
So really you have a NGE crowd giving praise, not a large crowd by all means and now a filtered on with people who support the NGE (obvioulsy) more so then us. In a way that is a biased complement.
I mean, if they all of a sudden gained back 100k accounts and you saw old vets that quit because of the NGE and come back for yet another go around say how great it was then that would be somthing..
In this case it is what's left of the people that tolerate the game.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by dookseid Originally posted by Reachwind Guys... Taking this quote out of context and reading into it don't make it true. "We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound." He is saying that you are debating with him that it is bad, but that he says it is good and no evidence you show him will change his or anyone at SOE's opinion. They are all telling you over and over again that the NGE is GOOD. In their minds, the game part, is not a failure. He clearly states that even in the quote you used. He is telling you to talk to the hand because the face don't want to hear it. Take your complaints to PM, because they aren't wanted on his board. It's right there for the reading. Don't read anything into it, don't assume anything, just read what he wrote. What he wrote is that he is sorry for the way they launched their great (barf) changes on everyone and that people hated the way it was comunicated. More of the same. The message hasn't changed since 11/15/05 - NGE is there game.
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
Understand the sad part here being that the people LEFT IN THE GAME ALREADY ACCEPTED THE NGE, sure they hated it or some did not like that much... BUT they are already there and using it.
They have filtered out most of us with some sense of what was lost. Most of us with a more biased opinion then who is left is no longer there to defend this.
So really you have a NGE crowd giving praise, not a large crowd by all means and now a filtered on with people who support the NGE (obvioulsy) more so then us. In a way that is a biased complement.
I mean, if they all of a sudden gained back 100k accounts and you saw old vets that quit because of the NGE and come back for yet another go around say how great it was then that would be somthing..
In this case it is what's left of the people that tolerate the game.
That's kinda my point Isk. Even people still there who have accepted NGE for what it is were and are bashing Brenlos apology and asking for things to be set right. Yes, people who are paying for NGE are still up in arms about the meaningless apology.
As the head of the company I would be asking myself how in the hell did we do this and how do we make it right? Especially with a couple big launches on the way.
If we don't see some more damage control head out soon I will simply be amazed and disgusted. Word of mouth still carries a lot of weight in the MMORPG market and if they don't right the ship quick, they'll be asking themselves why these new games aren't touching WOW's numbers either....
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
Unless you can prove he killed, then no. Innocent until proven guilty. Same with this, can you prove Brenlo thinks the NGE was a failure? He says in his post they failed on the delivery...not on the concept
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
Unless you can prove he killed, then no. Innocent until proven guilty. Same with this, can you prove Brenlo thinks the NGE was a failure? He says in his post they failed on the delivery...not on the concept
Actually, the burdon of proof for a civil issue is perponderance of evidence (51% must support your claim). A criminal act, such as killing, must be beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, your retort is meaningless because it compares Apples to Spinach.
Since when has any politician or corporation ever fully admitted responsibility for their actions and offered a full and unequivocal apology? If they admit the fault they are opening themselves to the possibilty that more mistakes can happen in their organisation, and that is a huge no-no. $OE will slowly disassociate themselves from SWG without drawing too much attention to how much of a fuckup it was.
It won't happen even if SWG subs are officially revealed as consisting of Wepps, Obraik, BlazinBlades, 2 guys from China and a small Chihuahua from Paris named Jean-Michelle.
The statement is the closest thing to an apology that I could have expected, if they went into any further admissions, they would be writing themselves out of the jobmarket forever. No matter how much we want to see $OE say "we were wrong about the NGE it was a mistake from the very start", it will never happen.
I like the fanbois reaction, it reminds me of the "we are grilling the americans' stomachs in hell" comment 5 minutes before the US tanks started rolling up Baghdad Main St.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik
Didn't think so
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Lol, your just not seeing it.
Ok -- tell ya what, your right.. there ya go. Everything is fine, in fact man this is all fake and all of these people saying sorry and making excuses for the game are fake.
Everyone likes the game, it is doing very well and is very successful. We are all wrong and I am sorry for that. None of us are right, in fact we are all pretending the NGE is really that bad and that everyone left, REALLY we are all just hiding in the game... (See really we are all in GAME RIGHT NOW) in fact they are adding servers like WoW is all the time now. SO MANY that they had to hide them all, there is at least 1 million subs now and Smedley, LEC and everyone involved is getting paid double.
Also at the last summit, it was not 45 people that showed up -- (THAT WAS THE MAIN ROOM) what they did was have a secret meeting with 4500 people in the bathrooms. They wanted to beta test the next stage of the game actually. Right now SWG is doing so good that it has now contracted the entire real Star Wars cast (whos alive) for the next update to the game, in fact now we will have 10 planets added and people will rejoice in the gaming world for SWG.
Your right man, all of this is wrong and fake... we are just making this all up as we go and the NGE is the best thing seen in gaming.
Also 12 Monkeys just flew out of my ass, BUT that is another story all together.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Didn't think so
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Now, lets pick apart this response:
Koster was a high ranking member of SOEs management structure until this past spring. Koster was the creative force behind the original SWG release. So, I am failing to see how he could not have been involved. Sure, he may not have had an active role in the NGE, but by mere proximity, he certainly had a passive one. Even if that involvement was knowing what was going on.
Now, lets look at the Smedley Statement:
So, SWG was the first IP that SWG implemented of any signifcance. Smedley, therefore, has drawn a good deal of expierence from the SW IP as it applies to SWG[Classic,CU,NGE]. Therefore, he was commenting on the culmination of SWG, including the NGE.
So, I don't see how isn't comment on the NGE.
So, in conclusion, the response is reactionary without any real relationship to the reality of the comments.
Originally posted by iskareot Lol, your just not seeing it. Ok -- tell ya what, your right.. there ya go. Everything is fine, in fact man this is all fake and all of these people saying sorry and making excuses for the game are fake. Everyone likes the game, it is doing very well and is very successful. We are all wrong and I am sorry for that. None of us are right, in fact we are all pretending the NGE is really that bad and that everyone left, REALLY we are all just hiding in the game... (See really we are all in GAME RIGHT NOW) in fact they are adding servers like WoW is all the time now. SO MANY that they had to hide them all, there is at least 1 million subs now and Smedley, LEC and everyone involved is getting paid double. Also at the last summit, it was not 45 people that showed up -- (THAT WAS THE MAIN ROOM) what they did was have a secret meeting with 4500 people in the bathrooms. They wanted to beta test the next stage of the game actually. Right now SWG is doing so good that it has now contracted the entire real Star Wars cast (whos alive) for the next update to the game, in fact now we will have 10 planets added and people will rejoice in the gaming world for SWG. Your right man, all of this is wrong and fake... we are just making this all up as we go and the NGE is the best thing seen in gaming.
Also 12 Monkeys just flew out of my ass, BUT that is another story all together.
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot Lol, your just not seeing it. Ok -- tell ya what, your right.. there ya go. Everything is fine, in fact man this is all fake and all of these people saying sorry and making excuses for the game are fake. Everyone likes the game, it is doing very well and is very successful. We are all wrong and I am sorry for that. None of us are right, in fact we are all pretending the NGE is really that bad and that everyone left, REALLY we are all just hiding in the game... (See really we are all in GAME RIGHT NOW) in fact they are adding servers like WoW is all the time now. SO MANY that they had to hide them all, there is at least 1 million subs now and Smedley, LEC and everyone involved is getting paid double. Also at the last summit, it was not 45 people that showed up -- (THAT WAS THE MAIN ROOM) what they did was have a secret meeting with 4500 people in the bathrooms. They wanted to beta test the next stage of the game actually. Right now SWG is doing so good that it has now contracted the entire real Star Wars cast (whos alive) for the next update to the game, in fact now we will have 10 planets added and people will rejoice in the gaming world for SWG. Your right man, all of this is wrong and fake... we are just making this all up as we go and the NGE is the best thing seen in gaming.
Also 12 Monkeys just flew out of my ass, BUT that is another story all together.
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
But see I am.. that is the whole point, thier comments lead to that.
I know what the NGE is, so do most.. now I see execs making excuses for the state of the game.. however you cannot.
That is what I do not get so I will now just play along with you. Your right... the NGE is a winner.. enjoy it.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
Excuse me (raising hand).... how are you anymore of an expert on what Benlo ment that Iskareot or any of the rest of us for that matter? Benlo was quite clearly commenting on the NGE and that SOE handled it badly.
Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
Excuse me (raising hand).... how are you anymore of an expert on what Benlo ment that Iskareot or any of the rest of us for that matter? Benlo was quite clearly commenting on the NGE and that SOE handled it badly.
Because he is Obraik .... didn't you know that???????
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by Obraik What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003. Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Now, lets pick apart this response:
Koster was a high ranking member of SOEs management structure until this past spring. Koster was the creative force behind the original SWG release. So, I am failing to see how he could not have been involved. Sure, he may not have had an active role in the NGE, but by mere proximity, he certainly had a passive one. Even if that involvement was knowing what was going on.
That's like blaming an EQ or Planetside dev for the NGE :P
Now, lets look at the Smedley Statement:
So, SWG was the first IP that SWG implemented of any signifcance. Smedley, therefore, has drawn a good deal of expierence from the SW IP as it applies to SWG[Classic,CU,NGE]. Therefore, he was commenting on the culmination of SWG, including the NGE.
So, I don't see how isn't comment on the NGE.
So, in conclusion, the response is reactionary without any real relationship to the reality of the comments.
Yes obviously he's talking about SWG but he never said that anything didn't work out, he said that third party IP's are restricting.
Comments
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
HAHA, all in fun Obriak but it is like this..
(As the statue is torn down behind him of Smedley)...lol
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Guys... Taking this quote out of context and reading into it don't make it true.
"We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound."
He is saying that you are debating with him that it is bad, but that he says it is good and no evidence you show him will change his or anyone at SOE's opinion. They are all telling you over and over again that the NGE is GOOD. In their minds, the game part, is not a failure. He clearly states that even in the quote you used.
He is telling you to talk to the hand because the face don't want to hear it. Take your complaints to PM, because they aren't wanted on his board. It's right there for the reading. Don't read anything into it, don't assume anything, just read what he wrote. What he wrote is that he is sorry for the way they launched their great (barf) changes on everyone and that people hated the way it was comunicated.
More of the same. The message hasn't changed since 11/15/05 - NGE is there game.
Former SWG beta tester and player
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
Only 45 peeps attended the San Diego summit? Is this true?
hopefully the NGE will be pulled soon. So we can start over again without SOE
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Agreed 10 fold, ACTUALLY ... Nobody would be making excuse posts/blogs if this was the case and so your right.
No way does a President call out issues with your partner company IN THE PRESS AND ON LIVE BLOG SITE... this is like the biggest no no I think I have seen yet. (Based on Business) I think alot of you have no idea what this means, I really don't so thats cool.. BUT let me tell you that what he did was as much of a no no as can be.
You never, ever blame anyone else... publicly like he did..because now the finger pointing has started, he blamed LEC for somthing, now LEC has blamed SOE -- and so the Blame wars has begun.
IF THE NGE WAS NOT A FAILURE This would not be happening, in fact people would be dancing in the streets and more then 45 people would show up for a freaking FREE summit meeting... I mean really 45??? W T F??
Seeing how many people showed up at LECs E3 booth to see Star Wars Legos II tells you just how out of touch SWG is with the gaming community. I am curious to see what happens now though, now is when the fun begins... the SHOW is on now, who speaks next is going to be intresting.
Only 45 peeps attended the San Diego summit? Is this true?
hopefully the NGE will be pulled soon. So we can start over again without SOE
Yep, and it's a fact... It was on the SOE site even, nobody can really lie about that not even SOE..lol
It is sad though, we go from sold out Fan Fests, with over 500 people in Indy once -- to 45 people left in a empty room and 10 Devs making excuses...
Nothing to make up there, but that is what it is.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
This really isn't anything more than just an elaborate blame game to which didn't LA start it off last week?
I do agree that something big is on the way considering that both LA and SOE are now in full swing of the blame game. My guess would be that the majority of it is damage control due to the dwindling subscriptions on all SOE games (could also be because of the station access gouging) as well as trying to regain some face value for the SOE name to help bring in potential customers for Vanguard, Gods and Heros, and DC Comics. Sony as a whole is in a downward spiral and sure that massive cuts will be coming so it's CYA time for executives and producers.
My sentiments exactly as this "apology" at face seems to be admitting that they've screwed up; however, I too believe that Brenlo's statement is nothing short of pompous. Brenlo isn't saying that the NGE was a failure but their execution of the NGE was; big difference. The bad part is it seems that the NGE was going to happen whether or not some of the developers (and most of the community) wanted it or not. This it absolute rubbish considering that they had to have been warned that chasing the mythical audience was going to be the proverbial straw that will break SW:G's back. Eight months later and now not only does the blame game between companies break out but the real numbers, the numbers of those still actively subscribing to SW:G are now sitting in their face with nobody to blame (industry wise) but themselves for being short sided.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
Excellent point... here's what a good friend posted in that thread...
THAT's the key... There are Hundreds of Thousands of gamers who despise them... This has NEVER happened in gaming history, and they really need to think of thier future. To have the attitude that what our players think doesn't matter as long as we have a lot of games to play is a SERIOUS gamble on their part, and one that has only worked once in history: Microsoft... and they are no Microsoft...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
how the hell did these idiots (JFreeman, and anyone that went along with him) convince themselves that LESS PROFESSIONS, LESS FEATURES, LESS RISK, LESS REWARD, LESS INTERDEPENDENCEY, LESS IMMERSION, LESS DIVERSITY, LESS VALUE TO CRAFTER & ENTERTAINERS, LESS EVERYTHING et al...would appeal to MORE PLAYERS????
more importantly, why do they still have jobs?
"We can't do this..."
"We shouldn't do this..."
Mr. Freeman should've gone with his gut instinct, it was 100% correct....
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
Understand the sad part here being that the people LEFT IN THE GAME ALREADY ACCEPTED THE NGE, sure they hated it or some did not like that much... BUT they are already there and using it.
They have filtered out most of us with some sense of what was lost. Most of us with a more biased opinion then who is left is no longer there to defend this.
So really you have a NGE crowd giving praise, not a large crowd by all means and now a filtered on with people who support the NGE (obvioulsy) more so then us. In a way that is a biased complement.
I mean, if they all of a sudden gained back 100k accounts and you saw old vets that quit because of the NGE and come back for yet another go around say how great it was then that would be somthing..
In this case it is what's left of the people that tolerate the game.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
You are right to a point. But what others here fail to mention is that while he did apologize, there are 20+ pages of flames in that same thread, many directly telling him to take his apology and shove it, and give the old game back.
Now If I were Smed and saw all that outrage from one post even amidst all the people praising SOE devs for Chapter 2 in other posts I would be saying to myself WTF???
How did we as a game company get ourselves into this postion and how do we make amends to all those that hate our guts? Making amends will surely help our profit margin... won't it??
I fully expect at least a single Smed post to come down the pipe very soon. At the very least, another Julio spin post...
Understand the sad part here being that the people LEFT IN THE GAME ALREADY ACCEPTED THE NGE, sure they hated it or some did not like that much... BUT they are already there and using it.
They have filtered out most of us with some sense of what was lost. Most of us with a more biased opinion then who is left is no longer there to defend this.
So really you have a NGE crowd giving praise, not a large crowd by all means and now a filtered on with people who support the NGE (obvioulsy) more so then us. In a way that is a biased complement.
I mean, if they all of a sudden gained back 100k accounts and you saw old vets that quit because of the NGE and come back for yet another go around say how great it was then that would be somthing..
In this case it is what's left of the people that tolerate the game.
That's kinda my point Isk. Even people still there who have accepted NGE for what it is were and are bashing Brenlos apology and asking for things to be set right. Yes, people who are paying for NGE are still up in arms about the meaningless apology.
As the head of the company I would be asking myself how in the hell did we do this and how do we make it right? Especially with a couple big launches on the way.
If we don't see some more damage control head out soon I will simply be amazed and disgusted. Word of mouth still carries a lot of weight in the MMORPG market and if they don't right the ship quick, they'll be asking themselves why these new games aren't touching WOW's numbers either....
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
Unless you can prove he killed, then no. Innocent until proven guilty. Same with this, can you prove Brenlo thinks the NGE was a failure? He says in his post they failed on the delivery...not on the concept
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Denial ain't just a river in Eygpt...
That is just weak... so I guess in your mind a killer isn't a killer if he doesn't admit it... tell me, are there chocolate dogs running the hard-candy streets next to the caramel river in this candyland of yours?
Unless you can prove he killed, then no. Innocent until proven guilty. Same with this, can you prove Brenlo thinks the NGE was a failure? He says in his post they failed on the delivery...not on the concept
Actually, the burdon of proof for a civil issue is perponderance of evidence (51% must support your claim). A criminal act, such as killing, must be beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, your retort is meaningless because it compares Apples to Spinach.
Since when has any politician or corporation ever fully admitted responsibility for their actions and offered a full and unequivocal apology? If they admit the fault they are opening themselves to the possibilty that more mistakes can happen in their organisation, and that is a huge no-no. $OE will slowly disassociate themselves from SWG without drawing too much attention to how much of a fuckup it was.
It won't happen even if SWG subs are officially revealed as consisting of Wepps, Obraik, BlazinBlades, 2 guys from China and a small Chihuahua from Paris named Jean-Michelle.
The statement is the closest thing to an apology that I could have expected, if they went into any further admissions, they would be writing themselves out of the jobmarket forever. No matter how much we want to see $OE say "we were wrong about the NGE it was a mistake from the very start", it will never happen.
I like the fanbois reaction, it reminds me of the "we are grilling the americans' stomachs in hell" comment 5 minutes before the US tanks started rolling up Baghdad Main St.
Didn't think what? THE WHOLE POST IS AN APOLOGY FOR THE NGE DELIVERY = OVER REACHING
Your original reply stated he said the NGE was a failure, which was wrong.
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Lol, your just not seeing it.
Ok -- tell ya what, your right.. there ya go. Everything is fine, in fact man this is all fake and all of these people saying sorry and making excuses for the game are fake.
Everyone likes the game, it is doing very well and is very successful. We are all wrong and I am sorry for that. None of us are right, in fact we are all pretending the NGE is really that bad and that everyone left, REALLY we are all just hiding in the game... (See really we are all in GAME RIGHT NOW) in fact they are adding servers like WoW is all the time now. SO MANY that they had to hide them all, there is at least 1 million subs now and Smedley, LEC and everyone involved is getting paid double.
Also at the last summit, it was not 45 people that showed up -- (THAT WAS THE MAIN ROOM) what they did was have a secret meeting with 4500 people in the bathrooms. They wanted to beta test the next stage of the game actually. Right now SWG is doing so good that it has now contracted the entire real Star Wars cast (whos alive) for the next update to the game, in fact now we will have 10 planets added and people will rejoice in the gaming world for SWG.
Your right man, all of this is wrong and fake... we are just making this all up as we go and the NGE is the best thing seen in gaming.
Also 12 Monkeys just flew out of my ass, BUT that is another story all together.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Sorry, but saying what he did, especially in the light of Smed's recent comments, is admitting the NGE is a Failure, or at least as close as they will ever come to doing so. If it were a success, there would be no reason to even make his post, or even make the excuses he did. Being blind to that says enough about your opinions on the matter.
Being "close they'll ever come to admitting" is not the same thing as actually outright admitting
Heh, accuse me of making it sound the way I want all you please, but remember that is exactly what you are doing as well.
Ok so we have Koster saying the NGE was a bad idea and bad move (he made the game for crap sake)
We have Brenlo saying he is Sorry for it being handled wrong.
We have Smedley on his Sony blog site saying this has not worked out making this work and He has more on this subject of the NGE saying he wished he had not done it this way.
Yep sounds like a success story to me, I mean crap what was I thinking.
The Dennis Leary of SWG... is not my side name for nothing.
What has Koster got to do with it? He hasn't been part of the game since mid 2003.
Smedley says nothing at all about the NGE on his blog. He says working with an IP holder is restricting and that (naturally) things are easier when the IP is their own.
Now, lets pick apart this response:
Koster was a high ranking member of SOEs management structure until this past spring. Koster was the creative force behind the original SWG release. So, I am failing to see how he could not have been involved. Sure, he may not have had an active role in the NGE, but by mere proximity, he certainly had a passive one. Even if that involvement was knowing what was going on.
Now, lets look at the Smedley Statement:
So, SWG was the first IP that SWG implemented of any signifcance. Smedley, therefore, has drawn a good deal of expierence from the SW IP as it applies to SWG[Classic,CU,NGE]. Therefore, he was commenting on the culmination of SWG, including the NGE.
So, I don't see how isn't comment on the NGE.
So, in conclusion, the response is reactionary without any real relationship to the reality of the comments.
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
But see I am.. that is the whole point, thier comments lead to that.
I know what the NGE is, so do most.. now I see execs making excuses for the state of the game.. however you cannot.
That is what I do not get so I will now just play along with you. Your right... the NGE is a winner.. enjoy it.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
Excuse me (raising hand).... how are you anymore of an expert on what Benlo ment that Iskareot or any of the rest of us for that matter? Benlo was quite clearly commenting on the NGE and that SOE handled it badly.
/sigh :P I'm not arguing that the NGE has been a success or not...I'm arguing that Brenlo didn't say what you seem to think he did :P
Keep the monkey story to yourself
Excuse me (raising hand).... how are you anymore of an expert on what Benlo ment that Iskareot or any of the rest of us for that matter? Benlo was quite clearly commenting on the NGE and that SOE handled it badly.
Because he is Obraik .... didn't you know that???????
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Now, lets pick apart this response:
Koster was a high ranking member of SOEs management structure until this past spring. Koster was the creative force behind the original SWG release. So, I am failing to see how he could not have been involved. Sure, he may not have had an active role in the NGE, but by mere proximity, he certainly had a passive one. Even if that involvement was knowing what was going on.
That's like blaming an EQ or Planetside dev for the NGE :P
Now, lets look at the Smedley Statement:
So, SWG was the first IP that SWG implemented of any signifcance. Smedley, therefore, has drawn a good deal of expierence from the SW IP as it applies to SWG[Classic,CU,NGE]. Therefore, he was commenting on the culmination of SWG, including the NGE.
So, I don't see how isn't comment on the NGE.
So, in conclusion, the response is reactionary without any real relationship to the reality of the comments.
Yes obviously he's talking about SWG but he never said that anything didn't work out, he said that third party IP's are restricting.