I think as these games (MMoRPGs) become more and more popular and even more importantly numerous, services like this are only going to take off even more.
In my case, I'm about to get married in one week, and I have to finish my last semester of college this fall. I'm not going to get much playing time at all for the next few months. My brother and our friends will.
We play EQ2, and quite frankly I wouldn't have any problem with having someone powerlevel my toon so I could catch up with them at a later time, so I can play alongside them like I've been doing.
I think people who say that things like this weaken the gaming community need to be careful about that statement, as I think in some games it doesn't really matter at all.
In EQ2 for instance, the spells and combat arts recycle themselves eery tier essentially. Every class has those odd special spells that you get one or so versions of, but essentially if you play the class for a tier or 2 at some point, you should have enough experience to play the toon at the top tier.
I say that this is the price we players have to pay for playing the way we do in these games.
We have created a culture in the games that really has no respect for anything other than the level. Roleplaying is dead, socializing with other players outside of private voice servers is dead, and grouping in pick up groups with players we haven't met before is dead. Guild membership is something more like a job, or a real-life construct superimposed on a game universe that doesn't let strangers inside. All the things that made the journey fun, or somewhat tolerable, have been going by the wayside.
The sad truth of what we have discovered as players is that all those things in between the start, and the endgame are just wastes of time, and purely consensual. The most highly competitive clans have learned that the only real common, irreducable indicators of prestige are in terms of the game benchmarks. So people just get the benchmarks, since those are the only things that everyone can agree upon are good.
Immersion is dead, and its dead because the best players have learned that by breaking immersion, they can master the game. In the final analysis, the combat engine isn't going to care if the level 60 was powerlevelled, or slow ground. It will calculate the same damage.
The two things that you just can't pick up on the fly are levels, and assets. That is why they are sold. You can be the nicest player in the world, but if you don't have the level for a level specific raid, you won't go on the raid. So its no wonder why people don't have fun while levelling. It has become a race, because everything you can do while levelling you can do when already levelled.
Do I dislike the powerlevelling for money? I do, but its a problem that has to do with more than the service. It has to do also with what we value. If everyone had a twink guild who'd powerlevel eachother for free, people wouldn't need it. If people would just sit back, have fun, and incorporate lower levels into their stories and games, we wouldn't need it. The problem is, we as players haven't cared about the original reasons we are here for so long, that those things like roleplay, chatting, and immersion aren't important anymore. Plus if the power guilds who are jumping from game to game are doing it for eacother for free, why can't the unconnected players do it too?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I have to say that although I now support powerleveling services I have never used one. That's because I refuse to waste the money and I would no longer pay cash to a game company that attempts to rip me off via a tedious grind. So, I would not support either game or service, and frankly, I have no idea why you do.
The "agreement" for these games brings to mind an old saying, " an unjust law does not deserve to be respected." That means that if the government passes some nonsense law against say "wearing pants" then the population would be well within it's rights to break the law.
In real life I knew this stripper that worked at this joint that promised a large amount of money per week if the girls signed a contract saying that they'd work for a certain period of time. The girl that I knew had a change of heart and wanted to quit, but the smarmy owner started threatening her.
I and some other people assured the girl that the owner could do nothing. Operating a strip joint is unethical on a variety of levels and so no judge is going to support forcing a girl that wants to quit to either work there or cough up money she doesn't have. Invalid contract!
We, of course, were right.
That was a long story, but the concept is that a business that is set up to exploit people does not deserve to have rules that won't be violated. In fact, all that one can do to subvert it is the best thing that one can do.
Yes, you might say that one does not have to sign up for a game to begin with if you don't think the company is ethical. Well, there's a business rule from the bible that says, " you should not lead a blind man over a stumbling block," and that means that you should not engage in false advertizing and hype. That is exactly how these boring games operate.
So, please engage in acts of subversion.
Prevention:
Make games that are at least as interesting as the average soap opera or comic book. Then it will be absurd to skip ahead and miss the amusing and interesting stories and plot lines. Few if any wil "cheat" if that's even the word.
Has anyone else noticed that the report button appears to have been disabled in this thread?
I mean MMORPG.com appear to be condoing what amounts to a violation of their terms of use (namely advertising, exchange of game goods for real money and criminal activities). So does this mean that the rest of us can go trolling? I doubt it.
We can't pretend that power leveling services don't exist but there's a broad vast gulf between debating them and condoning them.
If you don't like it. as I don't, then contact MMORPG.com and tell them of your displeasure. There's a link at the bottom of every page. I've already fired off an email to them myself and expect my account to be pulled if the rot has set in as far as it appears.
Powerleveling services amounts to using chemical enhancers in sport or any other form of cheating. It's unsporting and unlawful. We must stamp down on it and anyone who encourages it.
NB:I don't care about people who power level themselves; I think that they're fools who are missing the best bits of the game but other than that I really don't give a damn.
Hello,
I must admit, I am confused as to what you're upset about. What exactly in this thread condones powerleveling services or advertises them? This is a legitimate MMORPG issue and worth debating. Part of debate means allowing both sides to speak their mind. This debate was run because it is a hot topic (see the 55 posts so far), not because we wanted to endorse it.
All that said, if you're referring to our advertising policies, then I am not the man to complain to, as I have absolutely no role in who and what advertises with us. We do that intentionally so one never influences the other. You should email Craig (see About Us) to voice your concerns.
P.S. If report post is broken, please post everything that doesn't work, your browser, etc. on our bug forum so we can fix it.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I agree. MMORPG's shouldn't primarily be about the level. It should be about the experience, the interaction, the fun. I agree that both players and guilds have made MMORPG's value level over fun way too much. It upsets me that all people want to do is to race to reach the level cap. It's absurd. An MMORPG isn't a race... it's a journey.
Powerlevelling doesn't even let you start the journey. It simply teleports you to the finish line, leaving you with no idea how you got there. Yes, there are players who can play their characters well despite the lack of experience, but you can learn this by reading forums and player tips... what's the big achievement in that?
MMORPG's should be enjoyed at your own leisure. Have fun exploring and making friends. Powerlevelling is the result of an "instant" world. Instant noodles, instant brownies, instant gratification, instant character. It's just plain stupid.
Powerlvling for EQ2 you gotta be kidding, takes about 2 to 3 weeks of playing to get a character to 50 plus, the game is so watered down and easy to progress that the Plat selling services have to practically give it away to get anyone to buy it .
If RL is too hectic then why are you playing online games that need your undivided attention, even with a server that gives you a maxed out character will you still have the time to take advantage of the work that went into making that possible, probably not, most ppl use thier circumstances to justify using such services but once the service has delivered does this then mean your all of a sudden going to have all of this free time to play that character or are these ppl just wanting to show off to their friends that "hey look at me i have this great lvl blah blah with all this fancy loot" which btw they don't get becuase the powerlvlers have a strict area to maximise time over lvls and they do infact warn you that they will distribute talent points or skills to again maximise lvling over your preferred choice. All you get at the end of the day is toon, you don't magically get all the time in the world to play them, you don't get all this wonderful epic loot becuase the powerlvlers grinded in areas that no one goes to and you certainly dont get a crap load of money becuase the powerlvlers are selling that on for a profit.
Waste your $300 plus dollars for your toon, it took me 2 weeks to max out my EQ2 character at a cost of $28 and i got some nice loot, took me 24 days of play to max out my WoW toon at a cost of $32 , I lvl U does it in 16 days for $400 plus dollars and I'm not even a hardcore player.
Carolyn Koh made a very funny and imo a very ignorant statement. She said that she did not know of any guilds that have a trial period, lol, She obviously doesn't play much of the end game content. From WoW alone i looked at 16 of the major end game raiding guilds and ALL have both an application to complete for review, a period before acceptance to play with other members and they all have a 1 to 2 week trial, rookie, initiate status where you are in the guild but have limited access to guild events or loot while you prove yourself. The 3 major EQ guilds i knew when i played were exactly the same way. To me it seems she just picked the other side to complete an argument without having any actual knowledge or experience in the issue, very funny.
First off it is so stupid to pay for leveling because I thought the reason someone plays an rpg and yes they are rpg's is for the experience to enjoy the story and enjoy just exploring not to become the highest lvl in the game. And btw in most big mmorpg's selling anything for real money in game is illegal (that includes lvl's is illegal).
Originally posted by TheAdlerian I have to say that although I now support powerleveling services I have never used one. That's because I refuse to waste the money and I would no longer pay cash to a game company that attempts to rip me off via a tedious grind. So, I would not support either game or service, and frankly, I have no idea why you do. The "agreement" for these games brings to mind an old saying, " an unjust law does not deserve to be respected." That means that if the government passes some nonsense law against say "wearing pants" then the population would be well within it's rights to break the law. In real life I knew this stripper that worked at this joint that promised a large amount of money per week if the girls signed a contract saying that they'd work for a certain period of time. The girl that I knew had a change of heart and wanted to quit, but the smarmy owner started threatening her. I and some other people assured the girl that the owner could do nothing. Operating a strip joint is unethical on a variety of levels and so no judge is going to support forcing a girl that wants to quit to either work there or cough up money she doesn't have. Invalid contract! We, of course, were right. That was a long story, but the concept is that a business that is set up to exploit people does not deserve to have rules that won't be violated. In fact, all that one can do to subvert it is the best thing that one can do. Yes, you might say that one does not have to sign up for a game to begin with if you don't think the company is ethical. Well, there's a business rule from the bible that says, " you should not lead a blind man over a stumbling block," and that means that you should not engage in false advertizing and hype. That is exactly how these boring games operate. So, please engage in acts of subversion.
Prevention: Make games that are at least as interesting as the average soap opera or comic book. Then it will be absurd to skip ahead and miss the amusing and interesting stories and plot lines. Few if any wil "cheat" if that's even the word.
sORRY DUDE but i think you totaly missing out on what a mmorpg should be , and frankly it does not have anything to do with leveling thou its something that gets you futher in the game , but the most importent thing is interactivety with other people around the world and make use of the ingame story aswell creat your own, those that understand mmorpg can/will start their own story, not met on powerleverer that really playedthe mmorpg for what it stands for, most i see i who can be the richest and trow their gold weight around, wich to me has again nothing to do with a mmmorpg.
Prevention tip you gave did not really make sence as before stated its you that can make the most out of a MMORPG and its not only the data that created the game.
If some of you even had a clue of what a game these days cost to let some lossers powerlevel it to bits is just a real shame
While I've never used a PLing service, I can see some uses for them, like raising the level of a guild cleric bot (using EQ as an example). Why should anyone be stuck leveling a character that no one person is going to play all the time?
And as a person with the means and the capability, I'd PL someone for money in a flash.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Originally posted by Reklaw Originally posted by TheAdlerian I have to say that although I now support powerleveling services I have never used one. That's because I refuse to waste the money and I would no longer pay cash to a game company that attempts to rip me off via a tedious grind. So, I would not support either game or service, and frankly, I have no idea why you do. The "agreement" for these games brings to mind an old saying, " an unjust law does not deserve to be respected." That means that if the government passes some nonsense law against say "wearing pants" then the population would be well within it's rights to break the law. In real life I knew this stripper that worked at this joint that promised a large amount of money per week if the girls signed a contract saying that they'd work for a certain period of time. The girl that I knew had a change of heart and wanted to quit, but the smarmy owner started threatening her. I and some other people assured the girl that the owner could do nothing. Operating a strip joint is unethical on a variety of levels and so no judge is going to support forcing a girl that wants to quit to either work there or cough up money she doesn't have. Invalid contract! We, of course, were right. That was a long story, but the concept is that a business that is set up to exploit people does not deserve to have rules that won't be violated. In fact, all that one can do to subvert it is the best thing that one can do. Yes, you might say that one does not have to sign up for a game to begin with if you don't think the company is ethical. Well, there's a business rule from the bible that says, " you should not lead a blind man over a stumbling block," and that means that you should not engage in false advertizing and hype. That is exactly how these boring games operate. So, please engage in acts of subversion.
Prevention: Make games that are at least as interesting as the average soap opera or comic book. Then it will be absurd to skip ahead and miss the amusing and interesting stories and plot lines. Few if any wil "cheat" if that's even the word.
sORRY DUDE but i think you totaly missing out on what a mmorpg should be , and frankly it does not have anything to do with leveling thou its something that gets you futher in the game , but the most importent thing is interactivety with other people around the world and make use of the ingame story aswell creat your own, those that understand mmorpg can/will start their own story, not met on powerleverer that really playedthe mmorpg for what it stands for, most i see i who can be the richest and trow their gold weight around, wich to me has again nothing to do with a mmmorpg.
Prevention tip you gave did not really make sence as before stated its you that can make the most out of a MMORPG and its not only the data that created the game.
If some of you even had a clue of what a game these days cost to let some lossers powerlevel it to bits is just a real shame
Hi!
I have to say that my REAL life is far more interesting that most MMORPGs that I've played, and that is a shame. Most do not have any kind of ongoing story that is interactive. Sometimes it's the case that, as in City of Heroes, there's a text based story going on that one has to read. That's dull and I bet most people don't even read the stories half the time.
When one buys a single player game the player is usually moved through the story by NPCs and there is some sense that the situation is actually happening in the game. Much like a comic, each level of a game should be like an "issue" that fills in yet another aspect of the overall plot. That would make powerleveling a dumb thing to do. It would be like reading the last chapter of a book, and few people do that.
Meanwhile, you have said nothing that discounts my post. These games aren't just made for social reasons or else we would not be having this discussion. We all have to remember that what is "is" and that means that if people are reporting that they hate the grind, want to level, or what have you, then that is what the game is about. That fact that people want to powerlevel speaks to a direct flaw in the game design.
Also, I must say that the "social" reason is really very lame. I have never read about a game, seen an ad, or the box in a store and thought, "wow, I'd love to socialize with the people in that game," so let's keep it real, shall we. People buy games because they look cool and exciting.
Personally, I do not care about how much money has gone into a poor product. Had they spent their money wisely and hired professional writers to create multiple story lines with a sense of mystery, then most companies would see a great return. However, it's the case that most MMORPGs are hollow products that contain little story, adventure, or challenge. That's because the game designers are eager to rush to market in the hopes of getting a lot of "front end" subscriptions on a falsely hyped product.
What I consider to be the most detrimental effect of these kinds of services is the players who buy to have it done and then whine and complain over and over on the game forums about there being little to no content at the end, which inevitably causes the game development to stagnate for anyone except those who either powergrind or pay for the powerleveling services since the game development turns towards the desires of these whiners.
As many others have already mentioned here, the majority of the content in MMORPGs resides in the areas of the game before the top levels. Because of these people who buy their maxed out characters though, some MMO companies have actually been neglecting the early parts of the game development and focusing on primarily the end game - catering to just these types of people. What those companies should then do is advertise their own powerleveling service to it's members, at an additional cost..it seems to be the way many things are heading.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Ater reading through this, I've gotta say this is a great advert for skill based training.
Of course in EVE we too see these twinks occasionally, but its more "purchased characters" as the levelling route just doesn't work due to the time based training. Its almost comedic how easy they are to spot...and kill. lol.
Ms. Koh's statement about no trial periods makes me think she really either doesn't play mmo's or was going off the deep end with "devil's advocate" position.
In EVE every corp worth joining (including the one that I run) has a trial period. Not only to ensure the new member fits well with the group, but to cull out these 'purchased' characters as well as background checks and such. This also applies to many other mmo guilds/corps/groups.
Nothing easier to spot than an "uber" BS pilot asking what a warp core stab is. lmao.
The one thing people against this, as well as RMT in general, seem to disregard is that there are always 'haves' and 'have nots'.
The biggest complaint is that people that use these services, buy in-game money or items, buy a character, etc... is that it gives an unfair advantage to people that have more money to spend, waste, whatever.
The opposite of that, and the way nearly every MMO works, which is why there are RMT services in the first place, is that you instead reward people that have truckloads of time to play the game.
Well, guess what? I have 3 kids and work 50 hours a week. Because I am a good parent, pay an insane amount of taxes to keep this country (US) running, and actually do things with friends and family away from my computer, I can never, EVER be as good as (whether it is by level or equipment, such as is the case in WoW's raid system) people that don't work, have no kids and don;t do anything away from the computer.
Hrrrmmm. Seems the wrong end of the spectrum is being rewarded if you ask me.
I guess I could play as much as they do, but I'd have to get rid of my house, cars, lots of other nice things, sell my kids, quit my job and move back in with my parents. Actually, I guess I'd have to get divorced as well, since I don't think my husband would join me on the journey to uberness. Good news though i suppose is that he can take the kids, cars, house, etc... so nothing to sell. Woot!
Yes... now I have a plan. i will be a divorced white female, 34, living at home with my parents, playing my MMO 100 hours per week.
Sounds pretty dumb, but then again... I would be part of the privelaged few that are rewarded by current MMO systems and be a real beast with the best items in-game! You may think me a loser, but I'll be able to kick your butt in PvP anytime!
Someday MMO devs will change the EULAs so that I can get a PL, more money, or buy a character and have a life again... someday.
One thing to note though. For the love of GOD, please stop saying any of the gold farmers, RMT traders or anyone else is doing the slightest thing that is illegal. It is so ridiculous when I see people say that. Last I checked a game company's EULA is NOT the law. People that break the law in public, advertising it far and wide as RMT companies do, end up either 1) going to jail, or 2) getting sued into oblivion. Neither of these things has happend and won;t be, as it is not an ILLEGAL activity.
My rant is now over.
Going to see about getting a divorce, then call the parents.
Damn, they aren't going to like having to convert that study that was once my bedroom back into my bedroom.
I found myself in a bad situation awhile back. The game I was playing was begining to bore me to tears. I had a mid level toon I had been working on for a few months.
My nephew tells me I should try the game he is playing. I played it, and it was fun. My only problem is the game had been out for a few months and I was way behind my nephew and his friends, and had no way of catching up to them.
I decided to risk a leveling company, there were a few kinks, but all in all they got me to the level I wanted, they jumped me 10 levels in 2 days which put me at the lowest level that I would be able to group with them. I did level 1 to 12 in a couple days, they did levels 13 to 22 in 2 days. And I was able to group with people I knew.
The leveling service I had used was refered to me by a guy I had met, who liked to play EQ, but his static group he played with past him by 12 levels while he was in europe on vacation for the summer. He hired these guys to catch him up, they did it in a couple days, and the static group was all back together.
I see no harm in it. If it were a PvP world, and people were buying, or paying someone to max out their toons just so they can set in the noobie areas and pk for fun. I could see a problem. But not in todays MMO's
Power Leveling however is not always used as it seems. Personally I am a 3 year veteran of Star Wars Galaxies. In my history I was a Holo-Grind Jedi, one of the first on the server I played on, there where only 8 of us reported. I grinded every single profession in SWG at the time to get that. Since then I have played many different templates. BH/CM, RNG/CARB, etc etc etc including a few runs with all the crafting professions. I also have ground out 2 Characters to Cap level Since NGE however I have 2 accounts and did not feel like taking the time to level the alt for each of my main characters, much less the 2nd alt for those 2 characters. I hvae earned jedi twice. I have ground over 9999999999999 xp in the last 3+ years of SWG. So when I finally descided to get my alts up. I paid a power leveling company to do it. I believe in that case I definately deserve my characters.
However I do agree that a totally new character should actually take the time to play at least 1/3 of the character class they are trying to be. This way they have some idea of how to play said character. However veterans have enough experience already in most cases.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 We have created a culture in the games that really has no respect for anything other than the level. Roleplaying is dead, socializing with other players outside of private voice servers is dead, and grouping in pick up groups with players we haven't met before is dead. Guild membership is something more like a job, or a real-life construct superimposed on a game universe that doesn't let strangers inside. All the things that made the journey fun, or somewhat tolerable, have been going by the wayside.
my only thing is to say that the players have not made it that way. The Devs have. Look at SWG. NGE has completely killed that community. We no longer sit around and chat while waiting on a buff. We dont go on hunting parties. So whats the point of SWG now? Well in my oppinion, to gain levels and then quit playing. BTW 18 days to CL 90 in SWG thats pitiful. I remember when it took 6 months just to get to the end game your looking for much less master it. SWG's endgame now is just CL 90 nothing else to work for. Whats the point of doing it yourself now (for vets) now I dont condone any newbie (forgive the term) paying a powerlevel I dont care what reason. However people who have already gone through it multiple times (veterans) thats a different story.
With regards to the EULA not being the law...you're right it's not a law on the books. But it is a legally binding contract that if you fail to meet and/or follow the guidelines of that contract you (the end user) are in breach of that contract, and the manufacturer is well within it's legal rights to yank your account. They may give you a warning first, but don't count on it.
I'm shocked at how many people there are in this debate that are actually supporting the practice of power-leveling. The whole point of playing an MMORPG is so that you play a character that you yourself created. This character is a representation of yourself, a proxy through which you can enjoy a game that has been created to be lived in. Anyone who claims that a (good) MMORPG is a game is wrong. MMORPG's are worlds. I say good MMO's, because a quailty MMO makes gaining skill fun. It also makes it so that a player does not have to be at a maximum skill cap to enjoy the game. I blame a large part of the boom of the powerleveling business on games like Everquest and World of Warcraft. If there ever were two "games" that promoted the use of powerleveling services more than any other, those two would definitely be it. Any game that equates a simple 2 digit number as a threshold for enjoyment (such as level 60 in WoW) is simply begging for a company to come by and power level characters. Only in skill based games such as Ultima Online (Pre-3D) and the upcoming Darkfall (forgive my shameless plug, im trying to make a point) do powerleveling services lose steam. In these kinds of games, the experiences within are more rewarding than a number in your character stat sheet. Furthermore, even if a person does purchase a high-end character, they will have no idea how to effectively use their skills that they will constantly lose battles against other players, and eventually (hopefully) quit. By now I think it's obvious that I am strongly opposed to powerleveling services. World of Warcraft was certainly ruined by many things, power leveling and E-baying included. However, Blizzard was asking for such things to occur when they put such a strong emphasis on the color of your gear and the number next to your characters icon when designing the game. It's in carebearish games such as EQ or WoW in which powerleveling is rampant. In games like retro-UO and (forgive shameless plug #2) Darkfall, where there is no such thing as soulbound or insured items (you lose everything when you die) that Ebay and such lose value, because that shiny axe you just bought for $50 can easily be taken from you by a ruthless PKer. Yes I hate powerleveling, but the reason such a practice exists as much as it does is due to bad gameplanning on the developer's part. PLing will always exist, but more so in certain games than others. I for one lose all respect towards anyone who pays for their characters in any MMO. And while the numbers in your character's stat sheet are virtual, as are the numbers and colors of his/her armor, there is one thing you can't buy on any internet site. One thing that cannot be taken away by a server wipe or a character deletion. The one thing that matters the most in an MMORPG. Respect.
Originally posted by Reklaw Again i understand those who have " done that been there" and want to group with some friends on other servers/realms but don't want to do the whole "done that been there " over again, but those people that use Powerleveling purely because of having no time , because of , husband/wife, work, children, ect then just know the game isn't fit for you. Afcourse its a shame but thats just reality, i always wanted a Ferrari but have bought a VW, why .....cause i could afford the VW and the Ferrari is a bit to expensive for me to ever buy( unless i win the lottery ) same goes for games, some you would like to play but unable to, just deal with it MMORPG's ar not made for a week time play they made with focus to those that want to play and keep playing a in those worlds after month and months. Lack of content NO!, those that say that either don't understand the game they play or have no sence of using their own fantasy for that game, they probebly like pre-chewed food aswell :P People that complain about World of Warcraft , i really do not understand why? first of i'm near 4 months into WoW and have not found one boring moment in this game,there is just to much stuff to explore or quest, i play it with some friends/people and i really enjoy my solo adventures, when i tend to get a feeling that is kinda close to boring then i just hop onto on of my other characters, wich is such a great feature to make new chars with only 1 subscribtion this way i never get bored and might i ever be bored then its the most simple thing to do is to either quitte the game or move over to a different kind of game (yes i also got a full-time job and rl relationships but thats not the point besides like i stated i don't have to hurry and shame if my friends lvl quicker but i just have to deal with that find some new friends and just be with my old friends when the lvl cappes, good thing most MMO's use a chat system so your friends if they really became friends can always stay in contact, even tell you wonderfull story's wich to me sounds really cool and something to look forward to in the future. A endgame wich is what you get when reaching the top levels is something to look forward to when you have explored every aspect of the game you play, every proffesion even maybe, and that takes time and that is why i play MMORPG there is no time set or timer that you need to hurry to progress in skill/lvl its the impatient community wich our real life have created, its all about rush rush rush.If your friends level higher because they can spend more time on a game then that game isn't fit for those with less time, lucky for them there are hundreds of online games that can be played with no grind feature what so ever, so totaly no need to complain about grinds Sometimes i get laughed at by people that started at the same period as i did and they say "lol you still at that lvl" but its funny to see when grouped with some of them that they react with " wow can you do that never seen that before" or " where is that place not been there yet" even thou they higher lvl'd in the same proffesion but ignorant about what you really can do and earn ingame. Again purely my own personal opinion, greetz
Too me imo anyone who feels they gotta buy a character or use irl money to get ahead of the crowd in any mmo,Well they are a disgrace to the online gaming community and have no right being part of it thats just my oppinion ive been playing online games since 92 93ish with muds.And ive never seen such an outbreak of losers.And yes it does kill some of the online community sure doesnt hurt anyone doesnt really kill my gameplay.But it destroys the genre.And if it goes on too long all the greedy corporations who run these game like lets say Soe see money being made and they start opening freakin servers so it can be possible. In games like wow i think people who spend the couple hundred bucks on a lvl 60 are plain idiotic i mean its so damn easy to lvl it take a couple weeks tops to reach high lvl.One of the reason the power lvling and outside cash is a hit for people on wow the farmer take em a day at most of pure farming and knowing what to hunt and kill to farm a few hundred or thousand gold to sell off.Not too mention to sell ingame items for outside money is a big a big copyright violation.Technicully the characters and items in game are rented and are owned by Blizzard or whatever company makes the game.Making a prophit off other people work and art basically.
Comments
In my case, I'm about to get married in one week, and I have to finish my last semester of college this fall. I'm not going to get much playing time at all for the next few months. My brother and our friends will.
We play EQ2, and quite frankly I wouldn't have any problem with having someone powerlevel my toon so I could catch up with them at a later time, so I can play alongside them like I've been doing.
I think people who say that things like this weaken the gaming community need to be careful about that statement, as I think in some games it doesn't really matter at all.
In EQ2 for instance, the spells and combat arts recycle themselves eery tier essentially. Every class has those odd special spells that you get one or so versions of, but essentially if you play the class for a tier or 2 at some point, you should have enough experience to play the toon at the top tier.
I say that this is the price we players have to pay for playing the way we do in these games.
We have created a culture in the games that really has no respect for anything other than the level. Roleplaying is dead, socializing with other players outside of private voice servers is dead, and grouping in pick up groups with players we haven't met before is dead. Guild membership is something more like a job, or a real-life construct superimposed on a game universe that doesn't let strangers inside. All the things that made the journey fun, or somewhat tolerable, have been going by the wayside.
The sad truth of what we have discovered as players is that all those things in between the start, and the endgame are just wastes of time, and purely consensual. The most highly competitive clans have learned that the only real common, irreducable indicators of prestige are in terms of the game benchmarks. So people just get the benchmarks, since those are the only things that everyone can agree upon are good.
Immersion is dead, and its dead because the best players have learned that by breaking immersion, they can master the game. In the final analysis, the combat engine isn't going to care if the level 60 was powerlevelled, or slow ground. It will calculate the same damage.
The two things that you just can't pick up on the fly are levels, and assets. That is why they are sold. You can be the nicest player in the world, but if you don't have the level for a level specific raid, you won't go on the raid. So its no wonder why people don't have fun while levelling. It has become a race, because everything you can do while levelling you can do when already levelled.
Do I dislike the powerlevelling for money? I do, but its a problem that has to do with more than the service. It has to do also with what we value. If everyone had a twink guild who'd powerlevel eachother for free, people wouldn't need it. If people would just sit back, have fun, and incorporate lower levels into their stories and games, we wouldn't need it. The problem is, we as players haven't cared about the original reasons we are here for so long, that those things like roleplay, chatting, and immersion aren't important anymore. Plus if the power guilds who are jumping from game to game are doing it for eacother for free, why can't the unconnected players do it too?
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I have to say that although I now support powerleveling services I have never used one. That's because I refuse to waste the money and I would no longer pay cash to a game company that attempts to rip me off via a tedious grind. So, I would not support either game or service, and frankly, I have no idea why you do.
The "agreement" for these games brings to mind an old saying, " an unjust law does not deserve to be respected." That means that if the government passes some nonsense law against say "wearing pants" then the population would be well within it's rights to break the law.
In real life I knew this stripper that worked at this joint that promised a large amount of money per week if the girls signed a contract saying that they'd work for a certain period of time. The girl that I knew had a change of heart and wanted to quit, but the smarmy owner started threatening her.
I and some other people assured the girl that the owner could do nothing. Operating a strip joint is unethical on a variety of levels and so no judge is going to support forcing a girl that wants to quit to either work there or cough up money she doesn't have. Invalid contract!
We, of course, were right.
That was a long story, but the concept is that a business that is set up to exploit people does not deserve to have rules that won't be violated. In fact, all that one can do to subvert it is the best thing that one can do.
Yes, you might say that one does not have to sign up for a game to begin with if you don't think the company is ethical. Well, there's a business rule from the bible that says, " you should not lead a blind man over a stumbling block," and that means that you should not engage in false advertizing and hype. That is exactly how these boring games operate.
So, please engage in acts of subversion.
Prevention:
Make games that are at least as interesting as the average soap opera or comic book. Then it will be absurd to skip ahead and miss the amusing and interesting stories and plot lines. Few if any wil "cheat" if that's even the word.
I must admit, I am confused as to what you're upset about. What exactly
in this thread condones powerleveling services or advertises them? This
is a legitimate MMORPG issue and worth debating. Part of debate means allowing both sides to speak their mind. This debate was run because it is a hot topic (see the 55 posts so far), not because we wanted to endorse it.
All that said, if you're referring to our advertising policies, then I am not the man to complain to, as I have absolutely no role in who and what advertises with us. We do that intentionally so one never influences the other. You should email Craig (see About Us) to voice your concerns.
P.S. If report post is broken, please post everything that doesn't work, your browser, etc. on our bug forum so we can fix it.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Powerlevelling doesn't even let you start the journey. It simply teleports you to the finish line, leaving you with no idea how you got there. Yes, there are players who can play their characters well despite the lack of experience, but you can learn this by reading forums and player tips... what's the big achievement in that?
MMORPG's should be enjoyed at your own leisure. Have fun exploring and making friends. Powerlevelling is the result of an "instant" world. Instant noodles, instant brownies, instant gratification, instant character. It's just plain stupid.
Powerlvling for EQ2 you gotta be kidding, takes about 2 to 3 weeks of playing to get a character to 50 plus, the game is so watered down and easy to progress that the Plat selling services have to practically give it away to get anyone to buy it
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If RL is too hectic then why are you playing online games that need your undivided attention, even with a server that gives you a maxed out character will you still have the time to take advantage of the work that went into making that possible, probably not, most ppl use thier circumstances to justify using such services but once the service has delivered does this then mean your all of a sudden going to have all of this free time to play that character or are these ppl just wanting to show off to their friends that "hey look at me i have this great lvl blah blah with all this fancy loot" which btw they don't get becuase the powerlvlers have a strict area to maximise time over lvls and they do infact warn you that they will distribute talent points or skills to again maximise lvling over your preferred choice. All you get at the end of the day is toon, you don't magically get all the time in the world to play them, you don't get all this wonderful epic loot becuase the powerlvlers grinded in areas that no one goes to and you certainly dont get a crap load of money becuase the powerlvlers are selling that on for a profit.
Waste your $300 plus dollars for your toon, it took me 2 weeks to max out my EQ2 character at a cost of $28 and i got some nice loot, took me 24 days of play to max out my WoW toon at a cost of $32 , I lvl U does it in 16 days for $400 plus dollars and I'm not even a hardcore player.
She said that she did not know of any guilds that have a trial period, lol, She obviously doesn't play much of the end game content. From WoW alone i looked at 16 of the major end game raiding guilds and ALL have both an application to complete for review, a period before acceptance to play with other members and they all have a 1 to 2 week trial, rookie, initiate status where you are in the guild but have limited access to guild events or loot while you prove yourself. The 3 major EQ guilds i knew when i played were exactly the same way. To me it seems she just picked the other side to complete an argument without having any actual knowledge or experience in the issue, very funny.
First off it is so stupid to pay for leveling because I thought the reason someone plays an rpg and yes they are rpg's is for the experience to enjoy the story and enjoy just exploring not to become the highest lvl in the game. And btw in most big mmorpg's selling anything for real money in game is illegal (that includes lvl's is illegal).
sORRY DUDE but i think you totaly missing out on what a mmorpg should be , and frankly it does not have anything to do with leveling thou its something that gets you futher in the game , but the most importent thing is interactivety with other people around the world and make use of the ingame story aswell creat your own, those that understand mmorpg can/will start their own story, not met on powerleverer that really playedthe mmorpg for what it stands for, most i see i who can be the richest and trow their gold weight around, wich to me has again nothing to do with a mmmorpg.
Prevention tip you gave did not really make sence as before stated its you that can make the most out of a MMORPG and its not only the data that created the game.
If some of you even had a clue of what a game these days cost to let some lossers powerlevel it to bits is just a real shame
Just like the gold farmers that pay for this site they deteriorate game conditions not improve them.
Some how the idea of roll playing has been hyjacked by geekers and a king of the hill mindset, let no expense be spared.
While I've never used a PLing service, I can see some uses for them, like raising the level of a guild cleric bot (using EQ as an example). Why should anyone be stuck leveling a character that no one person is going to play all the time?
And as a person with the means and the capability, I'd PL someone for money in a flash.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
sORRY DUDE but i think you totaly missing out on what a mmorpg should be , and frankly it does not have anything to do with leveling thou its something that gets you futher in the game , but the most importent thing is interactivety with other people around the world and make use of the ingame story aswell creat your own, those that understand mmorpg can/will start their own story, not met on powerleverer that really playedthe mmorpg for what it stands for, most i see i who can be the richest and trow their gold weight around, wich to me has again nothing to do with a mmmorpg.
Prevention tip you gave did not really make sence as before stated its you that can make the most out of a MMORPG and its not only the data that created the game.
If some of you even had a clue of what a game these days cost to let some lossers powerlevel it to bits is just a real shame
Hi!
I have to say that my REAL life is far more interesting that most MMORPGs that I've played, and that is a shame. Most do not have any kind of ongoing story that is interactive. Sometimes it's the case that, as in City of Heroes, there's a text based story going on that one has to read. That's dull and I bet most people don't even read the stories half the time.
When one buys a single player game the player is usually moved through the story by NPCs and there is some sense that the situation is actually happening in the game. Much like a comic, each level of a game should be like an "issue" that fills in yet another aspect of the overall plot. That would make powerleveling a dumb thing to do. It would be like reading the last chapter of a book, and few people do that.
Meanwhile, you have said nothing that discounts my post. These games aren't just made for social reasons or else we would not be having this discussion. We all have to remember that what is "is" and that means that if people are reporting that they hate the grind, want to level, or what have you, then that is what the game is about. That fact that people want to powerlevel speaks to a direct flaw in the game design.
Also, I must say that the "social" reason is really very lame. I have never read about a game, seen an ad, or the box in a store and thought, "wow, I'd love to socialize with the people in that game," so let's keep it real, shall we. People buy games because they look cool and exciting.
Personally, I do not care about how much money has gone into a poor product. Had they spent their money wisely and hired professional writers to create multiple story lines with a sense of mystery, then most companies would see a great return. However, it's the case that most MMORPGs are hollow products that contain little story, adventure, or challenge. That's because the game designers are eager to rush to market in the hopes of getting a lot of "front end" subscriptions on a falsely hyped product.
It's a fact, in my opinion of course.
I used to worked for these company.
great income.
:P
What I consider to be the most detrimental effect of these kinds of services is the players who buy to have it done and then whine and complain over and over on the game forums about there being little to no content at the end, which inevitably causes the game development to stagnate for anyone except those who either powergrind or pay for the powerleveling services since the game development turns towards the desires of these whiners.
As many others have already mentioned here, the majority of the content in MMORPGs resides in the areas of the game before the top levels. Because of these people who buy their maxed out characters though, some MMO companies have actually been neglecting the early parts of the game development and focusing on primarily the end game - catering to just these types of people. What those companies should then do is advertise their own powerleveling service to it's members, at an additional cost..it seems to be the way many things are heading.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Ater reading through this, I've gotta say this is a great advert for skill based training.
Of course in EVE we too see these twinks occasionally, but its more "purchased characters" as the levelling route just doesn't work due to the time based training. Its almost comedic how easy they are to spot...and kill. lol.
Ms. Koh's statement about no trial periods makes me think she really either doesn't play mmo's or was going off the deep end with "devil's advocate" position.
In EVE every corp worth joining (including the one that I run) has a trial period. Not only to ensure the new member fits well with the group, but to cull out these 'purchased' characters as well as background checks and such. This also applies to many other mmo guilds/corps/groups.
Nothing easier to spot than an "uber" BS pilot asking what a warp core stab is. lmao.
The one thing people against this, as well as RMT in general, seem to disregard is that there are always 'haves' and 'have nots'.
The biggest complaint is that people that use these services, buy in-game money or items, buy a character, etc... is that it gives an unfair advantage to people that have more money to spend, waste, whatever.
The opposite of that, and the way nearly every MMO works, which is why there are RMT services in the first place, is that you instead reward people that have truckloads of time to play the game.
Well, guess what? I have 3 kids and work 50 hours a week. Because I am a good parent, pay an insane amount of taxes to keep this country (US) running, and actually do things with friends and family away from my computer, I can never, EVER be as good as (whether it is by level or equipment, such as is the case in WoW's raid system) people that don't work, have no kids and don;t do anything away from the computer.
Hrrrmmm. Seems the wrong end of the spectrum is being rewarded if you ask me.
I guess I could play as much as they do, but I'd have to get rid of my house, cars, lots of other nice things, sell my kids, quit my job and move back in with my parents. Actually, I guess I'd have to get divorced as well, since I don't think my husband would join me on the journey to uberness. Good news though i suppose is that he can take the kids, cars, house, etc... so nothing to sell. Woot!
Yes... now I have a plan. i will be a divorced white female, 34, living at home with my parents, playing my MMO 100 hours per week.
Sounds pretty dumb, but then again... I would be part of the privelaged few that are rewarded by current MMO systems and be a real beast with the best items in-game! You may think me a loser, but I'll be able to kick your butt in PvP anytime!
Someday MMO devs will change the EULAs so that I can get a PL, more money, or buy a character and have a life again... someday.
One thing to note though. For the love of GOD, please stop saying any of the gold farmers, RMT traders or anyone else is doing the slightest thing that is illegal. It is so ridiculous when I see people say that. Last I checked a game company's EULA is NOT the law. People that break the law in public, advertising it far and wide as RMT companies do, end up either 1) going to jail, or 2) getting sued into oblivion. Neither of these things has happend and won;t be, as it is not an ILLEGAL activity.
My rant is now over.
Going to see about getting a divorce, then call the parents.
Damn, they aren't going to like having to convert that study that was once my bedroom back into my bedroom.
Ah well, screw them.
I need better gear!
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Malianea
I found myself in a bad situation awhile back. The game I was playing was begining to bore me to tears. I had a mid level toon I had been working on for a few months.
My nephew tells me I should try the game he is playing. I played it, and it was fun. My only problem is the game had been out for a few months and I was way behind my nephew and his friends, and had no way of catching up to them.
I decided to risk a leveling company, there were a few kinks, but all in all they got me to the level I wanted, they jumped me 10 levels in 2 days which put me at the lowest level that I would be able to group with them. I did level 1 to 12 in a couple days, they did levels 13 to 22 in 2 days. And I was able to group with people I knew.
The leveling service I had used was refered to me by a guy I had met, who liked to play EQ, but his static group he played with past him by 12 levels while he was in europe on vacation for the summer. He hired these guys to catch him up, they did it in a couple days, and the static group was all back together.
I see no harm in it. If it were a PvP world, and people were buying, or paying someone to max out their toons just so they can set in the noobie areas and pk for fun. I could see a problem. But not in todays MMO's
Not so nice guy!
Power Leveling however is not always used as it seems. Personally I am a 3 year veteran of Star Wars Galaxies. In my history I was a Holo-Grind Jedi, one of the first on the server I played on, there where only 8 of us reported. I grinded every single profession in SWG at the time to get that. Since then I have played many different templates. BH/CM, RNG/CARB, etc etc etc including a few runs with all the crafting professions. I also have ground out 2 Characters to Cap level Since NGE however I have 2 accounts and did not feel like taking the time to level the alt for each of my main characters, much less the 2nd alt for those 2 characters. I hvae earned jedi twice. I have ground over 9999999999999 xp in the last 3+ years of SWG. So when I finally descided to get my alts up. I paid a power leveling company to do it. I believe in that case I definately deserve my characters.
However I do agree that a totally new character should actually take the time to play at least 1/3 of the character class they are trying to be. This way they have some idea of how to play said character. However veterans have enough experience already in most cases.
I blame a large part of the boom of the powerleveling business on games like Everquest and World of Warcraft. If there ever were two "games" that promoted the use of powerleveling services more than any other, those two would definitely be it. Any game that equates a simple 2 digit number as a threshold for enjoyment (such as level 60 in WoW) is simply begging for a company to come by and power level characters. Only in skill based games such as Ultima Online (Pre-3D) and the upcoming Darkfall (forgive my shameless plug, im trying to make a point) do powerleveling services lose steam. In these kinds of games, the experiences within are more rewarding than a number in your character stat sheet. Furthermore, even if a person does purchase a high-end character, they will have no idea how to effectively use their skills that they will constantly lose battles against other players, and eventually (hopefully) quit.
By now I think it's obvious that I am strongly opposed to powerleveling services. World of Warcraft was certainly ruined by many things, power leveling and E-baying included. However, Blizzard was asking for such things to occur when they put such a strong emphasis on the color of your gear and the number next to your characters icon when designing the game. It's in carebearish games such as EQ or WoW in which powerleveling is rampant. In games like retro-UO and (forgive shameless plug #2) Darkfall, where there is no such thing as soulbound or insured items (you lose everything when you die) that Ebay and such lose value, because that shiny axe you just bought for $50 can easily be taken from you by a ruthless PKer.
Yes I hate powerleveling, but the reason such a practice exists as much as it does is due to bad gameplanning on the developer's part. PLing will always exist, but more so in certain games than others. I for one lose all respect towards anyone who pays for their characters in any MMO. And while the numbers in your character's stat sheet are virtual, as are the numbers and colors of his/her armor, there is one thing you can't buy on any internet site. One thing that cannot be taken away by a server wipe or a character deletion. The one thing that matters the most in an MMORPG. Respect.
somethig
In games like wow i think people who spend the couple hundred bucks on a lvl 60 are plain idiotic i mean its so damn easy to lvl it take a couple weeks tops to reach high lvl.One of the reason the power lvling and outside cash is a hit for people on wow the farmer take em a day at most of pure farming and knowing what to hunt and kill to farm a few hundred or thousand gold to sell off.Not too mention to sell ingame items for outside money is a big a big copyright violation.Technicully the characters and items in game are rented and are owned by Blizzard or whatever company makes the game.Making a prophit off other people work and art basically.