Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, you come in thinking that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
How is this insulting? An insult is taken only given. The hard fact about it is that its true. So what if you promote ignorance, meaningless gampley, no looting, etc? Its okay. It allcomes down to how you look at it.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
My comment is in Yellow.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Steelarm011
Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
How is this insulting? An insult is taken only given. The hard fact about it is that its true. So what if you promote ignorance, meaningless gampley, no looting, etc? Its okay. It allcomes down to how you look at it.
"Hardcore" pvp players name people who don't support pvp with full looting "carebears". yet here you are saying that those so called "carebears" want repetive gameplay, restricted gameplay,meaningless gameplay and more crap like that.
and that, my friend, is acting like a hypocrit. "Oh, they don't like FFA pvp with full loot, so that must also mean they like repetive, restrcted and meaningless gameplay". and thats what your saying. lets me say it loud and clear for you. just because someone doesn't enjoy player looting, does NOT mean they want to play the game on easy mode.
yet you get mad when somebody is calling pvp players "gankers"
also, lets not forget your comments in previous topics about PVP, where you said that "carebears" have no backbone for not liking FFA pvp with player loot.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Steelarm011
Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
How is this insulting? An insult is taken only given. The hard fact about it is that its true. So what if you promote ignorance, meaningless gampley, no looting, etc? Its okay. It allcomes down to how you look at it.
"Hardcore" pvp players name people who don't support pvp with full looting "carebears". yet here you are saying that those so called "carebears" want repetive gameplay, restricted gameplay,meaningless gameplay and more crap like that.
and that, my friend, is acting like a hypocrit. "Oh, they don't like FFA pvp with full loot, so that must also mean they like repetive, restrcted and meaningless gameplay". and thats what your saying. lets me say it loud and clear for you. just because someone doesn't enjoy player looting, does NOT mean they want to play the game on easy mode.
If you dont like it that way, than what other way are you going to have it? You're being wishy washy on the subject. You cant go "Weeeelll...I dont like full FFA with full loot...but I dont like it easy..." whether you like it or not, your sitting on the fence, and it doesnt help your argument.
yet you get mad when somebody is calling pvp players "gankers"
Yes we do. Cause theyre 2 different things. Carebears, gankers, and hardcore PVPr's are 3 different things.
also, lets not forget your comments in previous topics about PVP, where you said that "carebears" have no backbone for not liking FFA pvp with player loot.
Again your putting words into my mouth. I didnt say they dont have one, I said that you should toughen up because its JUST A GAME. And not all carebears are like that. But judging from these posts, alot do seem to take gaming consequences just a tad bit seriously.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
My comment is in Yellow.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 my comments in green
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011
Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
How is this insulting? An insult is taken only given. The hard fact about it is that its true. So what if you promote ignorance, meaningless gampley, no looting, etc? Its okay. It allcomes down to how you look at it.
"Hardcore" pvp players name people who don't support pvp with full looting "carebears". yet here you are saying that those so called "carebears" want repetive gameplay, restricted gameplay,meaningless gameplay and more crap like that.
and that, my friend, is acting like a hypocrit. "Oh, they don't like FFA pvp with full loot, so that must also mean they like repetive, restrcted and meaningless gameplay". and thats what your saying. lets me say it loud and clear for you. just because someone doesn't enjoy player looting, does NOT mean they want to play the game on easy mode.
If you dont like it that way, than what other way are you going to have it? You're being wishy washy on the subject. You cant go "Weeeelll...I dont like full FFA with full loot...but I dont like it easy..." whether you like it or not, your sitting on the fence, and it doesnt help your argument.
there are many other ways. you can actually give mobs a brain for once, you can make dungeons difficult. you can make a hard economy, raids, death penalty. things like that. there is MUCH, MUCH more possibilities to make a game harder. maybe if you actually look further then just PVP, you would also realise that.
yet you get mad when somebody is calling pvp players "gankers"
Yes we do. Cause theyre 2 different things. Carebears, gankers, and hardcore PVPr's are 3 different things.
how about we add a 4th one. a NORMAL player.
also, lets not forget your comments in previous topics about PVP, where you said that "carebears" have no backbone for not liking FFA pvp with player loot.
Again your putting words into my mouth. I didnt say they dont have one, I said that you should toughen up because its JUST A GAME. And not all carebears are like that. But judging from these posts, alot do seem to take gaming consequences just a tad bit seriously .
Actually, if you go trough your post history, you will find quite the opposide. also, you say we take gaming consequences just a bit too seriously.
YOU are the one crying and whining for game consequences. if they don´t matter all that much, why implant them?
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
In any game where there are limits, all games known to man, you are competing with any other players.
In response to "Life is competition" -- I'm going to stipulate the point because it only makes my argument stronger. Perhaps not you, but MANY of us play games to get away from the unpleasantries of life.... "dog eat dog competition" being one of them. Why can't you understand that sometimes people who spend all day in competition in real life, might want to come home, flip on a game, group up with friends, and relax in a NON-competitive setting?
Also... "All games known to man, you are competing with any other players." Not true. Table top roleplaying games are cooperative storytelling events, not competitive. Only a bad GM competes with his players, and the players are, almost always, cooperating with each other.
Since MMORPGs are derived from those very cooperative games, wanting to play them cooperatively, rather than competitively, ought not, in my opinion, to be beyond the pale.
There is LESS griefing in PVP games than PVE games.
In wow I can follow you around, talk dirty about your momma, pull your quest mobs, make sure you can never get that 10th piece of crocodile crap that the quest wants.
You can't do schit to stop me except maybe petition.
In Eve if you open your mouth and get stupid, I can kill you.
If you diss me I can kill you.
If you talk shit about my mom I can kill you.
If you follow me around I can kill you.
There is a feature of open PVP gaming called ENFORCED RESPECT.
Attention Deficit Disorder children get SQUASHED. Beggars. Macroers. Undesirables. Wannabe tough-guys. E-thugs.
People who think their 2 billion isk ship is l33t will lose it.
People who think they have a "right to free speech" will get their mouths shut.
People who think they have a "right to be anywhere" will be corrected.
Enforced respect.
When you talk to someone, you say "hello m8", you try to be friendly, even with your enemies you don't smacktalk. You don't burn bridges. You don't cause someone to hold a grudge.
You say sir and please and thank you.
Thats why any open PVP community is 500x better than the cesspools of PVE communities.
PVE communities people can grief you and you can't do schit about it, thats why you get all the battlenet scumbags.
Eve players aren't smarter than the average person. But compared to the rest of the MMORPG community they seem like Mensa candidates because of Enforced Respect.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 How is calling someone a carebear insulting them? Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it.... If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Pany, really, its gonna be okay
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, every carebear thinkings that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
You posted:
"The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots."
So you are really doing the exact same thing Steelarm. the only one who has been insulting "carebears" around here is you.
How is this insulting? An insult is taken only given. The hard fact about it is that its true. So what if you promote ignorance, meaningless gampley, no looting, etc? Its okay. It allcomes down to how you look at it.
"Hardcore" pvp players name people who don't support pvp with full looting "carebears". yet here you are saying that those so called "carebears" want repetive gameplay, restricted gameplay,meaningless gameplay and more crap like that.
and that, my friend, is acting like a hypocrit. "Oh, they don't like FFA pvp with full loot, so that must also mean they like repetive, restrcted and meaningless gameplay". and thats what your saying. lets me say it loud and clear for you. just because someone doesn't enjoy player looting, does NOT mean they want to play the game on easy mode.
If you dont like it that way, than what other way are you going to have it? You're being wishy washy on the subject. You cant go "Weeeelll...I dont like full FFA with full loot...but I dont like it easy..." whether you like it or not, your sitting on the fence, and it doesnt help your argument.
there are many other ways. you can actually give mobs a brain for once, you can make dungeons difficult. you can make a hard economy, raids, death penalty. things like that. there is MUCH, MUCH more possibilities to make a game harder. maybe if you actually look further then just PVP, you would also realise that.
As much as it sounds nice, you can never get an AI bot to act like a real life human. There are too many factors and it would take way too much technology to even come close. You can get a billion raid dunegons and it wont evenc ome close to the thrill of fighting PvP. Thats whats makes an MMO multiplayer - your able to fight against real life people.
yet you get mad when somebody is calling pvp players "gankers"
Yes we do. Cause theyre 2 different things. Carebears, gankers, and hardcore PVPr's are 3 different things.
how about we add a 4th one. a NORMAL player.
More like the "casual" gamer. But then again we calssify them too, so I guess its a big circle of death eh? also, lets not forget your comments in previous topics about PVP, where you said that "carebears" have no backbone for not liking FFA pvp with player loot.
Again your putting words into my mouth. I didnt say they dont have one, I said that you should toughen up because its JUST A GAME. And not all carebears are like that. But judging from these posts, alot do seem to take gaming consequences just a tad bit seriously .
Actually, if you go trough your post history, you will find quite the opposide. also, you say we take gaming consequences just a bit too seriously.
YOU are the one crying and whining for game consequences. if they don´t matter all that much, why implant them?
Im not the one whining, your the one whining for games to be easier and for it to stay that way. Thats how games got watered down - the carebears whined and the devs listened. Most MMO players today have been drawn in by WoW and thats the only game they know thats out there. Its a shame that they dont know there are games which are actually "fun" and are not tedious to play. Playing against bots its tedius, meningless and just plain wrong. They do matter, cause the PvP (or should I say, "real gamer" audience is speaking out.
However, calling a hardcore PvP'r a ganker is wrong and an insult for a number of reasons:
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me? so flattering.
My comment is in Yellow.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
m not the one whining, your the one whining for games to be easier and for it to stay that way. Thats how games got watered down - the carebears whined and the devs listened. Most MMO players today have been drawn in by WoW and thats the only game they know thats out there. Its a shame that they dont know there are games which are actually "fun" and are not tedious to play. Playing against bots its tedius, meningless and just plain wrong. They do matter, cause the PvP (or should I say, "real gamer" audience is speaking out.
see? there you go again. acting like a hypocrit. seriously, stop posting in this thread if you are not open to other people's views and opinions.
"its a shame that they don't know there are games which are actually "fun" and not tedious to play"
hey, here is a silly idea, they are paying 15$ a month for many months, how about they actually have fun? and they do know the joy and fun of pvp. oh yes they do. its called Counter strike and Battlefield 2.
also, PVE players DO want a challenge. but NOT pvp.
Shall I sum it up for your hypocrit mind one more time?
YOU find PVE tedious, meaningless and Wrong however, YOU are only ONE person, and NOT everybody is like YOU.
Diffrent people Like Diffrent things.
oh, and now "PVP players" are the only "real gamers" my god, your a joke.
oh, I'm the one whining?
"/cry /cry carebears won't play my games, so they must have no backbone, and don't want a challenge because obviously the only challenege possible in games is PVP".
Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by sempiternal Life is competition. Games and MMOGs are a part of life. If life is all about competition for you, then thank god I'm not you.
Even if you are playing a game with NO direct player versus player combat, you are STILL competing with every single other player in the game. Even in a single player game you are competing with the content of the developers that designed the game. we are talking about pvp competition here, please stay on topic. also, you are NOT necisary competing with other players when not pvping. when I'm doing a dungeon in WoW, I am not competing with other players, when I'm questing in Everquest 2, I am not competing with other players (unless another person has the exact same quest and we don't group up).
Life is competiton.
If you are incapable of comprehending a single short sentence, they you really are a waste of time.
In any game where there are limits, all games known to man, you are competing with any other players.
If that is the case, then PKers should be happy that the survival of the fittest economics of the MMORPG has removed them from the population.
Originally posted by Kyoruto Originally posted by FreddyNoNose Originally posted by Kyoruto How can hours of playing against bots be fun?
It doesn't matter. You are not owed any explanation as to why people like what they want. Besides, you are truly not intested in the why for better understanding and appreciating the differences, but rather to get people to change their minds so that your style can be more popular. Which just boils down to you being manipulative.
Sure.. Misses pissy. Assume all you want. But the fact is that someone asks a legitimate question and you get all on your high horse doesn't mean you know what I want to know. You don't need to be rude for no reason what so ever and if you want to assume at least put some logic in it. Then again you're probably a closet racist if you make such generalizations. See, isn't being an ass fun?
That is the best you have. MMORPGs have taken PKers out of the business model. PKers are free to cry about it, but they are out of the running. Too bad, so sad, you won't be missed.
You still don't care about why they have fun. You just want to use what they say to try to get them to see your point of view.
Haha, I can't even be bothered to clean up steel's response to me to quote it, he seems to get into a 'most unreadable post' competition ever time. Anyway Steely, You know that carebear is a reference to the carebears, pretending that it's not is just silly. We all know that you intend to insult people by using it, pretending that you're not is just silly, plus you've been told that it is so there's no excuse for continuing to use it. At first I thought you really might not realize the pattern of 'hardcore PVPer insults people - people respond back - steel whines about how everyone is prejudiced against hardcore PVPers', now I see that you must welcome it.
The crowning point was the bit where you said that I was a jackass for responding to your objections to a particular insulting term with the exact words that you used. Truly magnificent.
Originally posted by Gameloading m not the one whining, your the one whining for games to be easier and for it to stay that way. Thats how games got watered down - the carebears whined and the devs listened. Most MMO players today have been drawn in by WoW and thats the only game they know thats out there. Its a shame that they dont know there are games which are actually "fun" and are not tedious to play. Playing against bots its tedius, meningless and just plain wrong. They do matter, cause the PvP (or should I say, "real gamer" audience is speaking out.
see? there you go again. acting like a hypocrit. seriously, stop posting in this thread if you are not open to other people's views and opinions.
"its a shame that they don't know there are games which are actually "fun" and not tedious to play"
hey, here is a silly idea, they are paying 15$ a month for many months, how about they actually have fun? and they do know the joy and fun of pvp. oh yes they do. its called Counter strike and Battlefield 2.
also, PVE players DO want a challenge. but NOT pvp.
Shall I sum it up for your hypocrit mind one more time?
YOU find PVE tedious, meaningless and Wrong however, YOU are only ONE person, and NOT everybody is like YOU.
Diffrent people Like Diffrent things.
oh, and now "PVP players" are the only "real gamers" my god, your a joke.
oh, I'm the one whining?
"/cry /cry carebears won't play my games, so they must have no backbone, and don't want a challenge because obviously the only challenege possible in games is PVP".
Whoever said Im not open to others views and opinions? Ive been replying to your posts and have been quoting the whole thing. In fact, you dont even do that. You only quote half of my responses, because you dont have any argument against the ones you cut out.
I think that PvE makes players in a stage in which they almost get addicted. The urge to simply get better overwhlems their senses and they just strive to be the best. But it doesnt make sense, even to alot of them. You reach the top - alright, now what? Different people do like different things, im not arguing that - but Im arguing that in terms of PvE vs PvP most players would choose PvP.
Youre the joke because you wont listen to me, your the one whose whining your asses of when people post threads like this, and your the one who doesnt even acknowledge it.
Originally posted by Pantastic Haha, I can't even be bothered to clean up steel's response to me to quote it, he seems to get into a 'most unreadable post' competition ever time. Anyway Steely, You know that carebear is a reference to the carebears, pretending that it's not is just silly. We all know that you intend to insult people by using it, pretending that you're not is just silly, plus you've been told that it is so there's no excuse for continuing to use it. At first I thought you really might not realize the pattern of 'hardcore PVPer insults people - people respond back - steel whines about how everyone is prejudiced against hardcore PVPers', now I see that you must welcome it. The crowning point was the bit where you said that I was a jackass for responding to your objections to a particular insulting term with the exact words that you used. Truly magnificent.
Pan, this post is absolutely pathetic. You didnt quote my post back to you, you dont have any proof. Just like the last time your posts are meaningless and you repeat yourself over and over again. Whine whine whine...sigh, panny, when are you going to understand that these posts just dont make the cut?
In case you didnt read my response, i'll say it again to get it through your thick skull:
How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, you come in thinking that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true. YOUVE been whining and crying because you make posts such like this.
Im not going to bother to debate this post because its not worth my time. At least Gameloading has some good facts.
/pk'd
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by fizzle322 There is LESS griefing in PVP games than PVE games.
In wow I can follow you around, talk dirty about your momma, pull your quest mobs, make sure you can never get that 10th piece of crocodile crap that the quest wants.
You can't do schit to stop me except maybe petition.
In Eve if you open your mouth and get stupid, I can kill you.
If you diss me I can kill you.
If you talk shit about my mom I can kill you.
If you follow me around I can kill you.
There is a feature of open PVP gaming called ENFORCED RESPECT.
Attention Deficit Disorder children get SQUASHED. Beggars. Macroers. Undesirables. Wannabe tough-guys. E-thugs.
People who think their 2 billion isk ship is l33t will lose it.
People who think they have a "right to free speech" will get their mouths shut.
People who think they have a "right to be anywhere" will be corrected.
Enforced respect.
When you talk to someone, you say "hello m8", you try to be friendly, even with your enemies you don't smacktalk. You don't burn bridges. You don't cause someone to hold a grudge.
You say sir and please and thank you.
Thats why any open PVP community is 500x better than the cesspools of PVE communities.
PVE communities people can grief you and you can't do schit about it, thats why you get all the battlenet scumbags.
Eve players aren't smarter than the average person. But compared to the rest of the MMORPG community they seem like Mensa candidates because of Enforced Respect.
In a PvE game, I usually have an /ignore command. I also have CS that have the ability to do more than say, "handle your own problem." After all, I don't send the monthly bill to other players. I send it to the provider.
In EVE you can follow a miner around, talk crap, kill the rats, and make sure he or she never gets a full can of ore back to station.
And unless you are an older account, have a bigger corp, or a bigger alliance, you can't do crap, or if you can, its only temporarily until the offender extracts revenge. You can't even petition, because its all allowed.
If someone who is more powerful disses you, you have to keep your mouth shut and suffer.
If I have more alliance mates, more ISK, and more SP, I can talk shit about you all day, because the power gives me the right.
I can follow you or have you followed, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it, except get all upset, which is what I want, or take revenge, and give myself one more kill on my alliance killboard to show you what a loser you are to everyone on Tranquility.
Yes, it is called "enforced respect," and in games like EVE its the only place where ADD kids can get respect.
Where an alliance can open themselves to begging, kill the chump, make a recording of some TS convo, and humiliate the person, without any response whatsoever.
Macroing is "honorable" when a 1,000 person alliance does it, simply because they say its true. Macroing is "dishonorable" when something more powerful says it is.
Where your total sum fees and friends give you the right to call anyone an "undesirable," for any reason you whim.
Tough guys can talk tough, and make you beg for mercy, simply because they can. Yes, ASCN and BoB can demand flattery, "sir," "please," and "thank you," but they aren't and will never be required to say it in turn.
Power gives a player in EVE the right to say things about your mother, and expect someone without it to say "thank you."
Burning bridges, smacktalk, and holding gruges is what alliances do, and the "1337er," the more they have a right to do it.
That is what three years building SP, ISK, and huge alliances will get you in EVE. However, they don't do it because they respect the players that demand respect. That is why the respect in EVE has to be "enforced," because given a choice, we'd just flat out ignore the griefers and gloaters.
PvP MMORPGs like EVE are able to capitalize on the fact that they can sell honor to the honorless, respect for the disrespectful, and the right to be an ass to the ones who demand their asshattery be taken seriously. That is what a 1,000 person alliance, more ISK, and most importantly, more sub fees to CCP will buy.
Its not the person or the guild who gets respected in a PvP game. Its the ability to pwn and grief that is put up with, only so you can get back to having the fun that your non-refundable box and sub fee entitles you to have.
That is why PvP players and guilds love PvP games, because their PvP prowress can substitute for manners, fair play, and decency.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by fizzle322 There is LESS griefing in PVP games than PVE games.
In wow I can follow you around, talk dirty about your momma, pull your quest mobs, make sure you can never get that 10th piece of crocodile crap that the quest wants.
You can't do schit to stop me except maybe petition.
In Eve if you open your mouth and get stupid, I can kill you.
If you diss me I can kill you.
If you talk shit about my mom I can kill you.
If you follow me around I can kill you.
There is a feature of open PVP gaming called ENFORCED RESPECT.
Attention Deficit Disorder children get SQUASHED. Beggars. Macroers. Undesirables. Wannabe tough-guys. E-thugs.
People who think their 2 billion isk ship is l33t will lose it.
People who think they have a "right to free speech" will get their mouths shut.
People who think they have a "right to be anywhere" will be corrected.
Enforced respect.
When you talk to someone, you say "hello m8", you try to be friendly, even with your enemies you don't smacktalk. You don't burn bridges. You don't cause someone to hold a grudge.
You say sir and please and thank you.
Thats why any open PVP community is 500x better than the cesspools of PVE communities.
PVE communities people can grief you and you can't do schit about it, thats why you get all the battlenet scumbags.
Eve players aren't smarter than the average person. But compared to the rest of the MMORPG community they seem like Mensa candidates because of Enforced Respect.
A few weeks ago in WoW I had happen to me exactly what you describe. A guy was hogging all the mobs. Quest mobs to be specfic.. I petitioned a GM and two hours later he logged off. I then get a message from a GM telling me thanks and asking if there was anything else he can do for me. That was a few weeks ago. Guy hasnt been back on in that time. Since he decent rank and decent gear I can only assume he wouldnt have just left at that moment.
In CoH I had a player insulting me at every turn. I petitioned a GM. A few minutes later a GM appeared and listened for a few then the player went LD. Didnt ever hear or see him again.
Yah you can get kill me in Eve. I can get your rump BANNED in other games!!!!!!!!
Now what your proposing is a double edged sword. Enforced Respect..... It works both ways. Basically that means you HAVE to respect the stronger player. Even if he is a complete Llama loser who only gains happiness from ganking and griefing. It reminds me of an old 1930s newsreel I once saw. It was hard to make out though because it was in black and white and everyone spoke german. Forced to respect the stronger power even though they might be a complete freeze-dried-whack-a-loon.
Originally posted by Chessack Guys, stop quoting quotes of quotes. It's making your comments unreadable.
C
Like anyone besides you and two of them try to read them anyways!
Originally posted by Pantastic Anyway Steely, You know that carebear is a reference to the carebears, pretending that it's not is just silly. We all know that you intend to insult people by using it, pretending that you're not is just silly, plus you've been told that it is so there's no excuse for continuing to use it
Yeah steel, it's lame not to admit you wanna insult them, that's kind of spineless, isn't it?
Originally posted by kaibigan34
Yah you can get kill me in Eve. I can get your rump BANNED in other games!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Gameloading m not the one whining, your the one whining for games to be easier and for it to stay that way. Thats how games got watered down - the carebears whined and the devs listened. Most MMO players today have been drawn in by WoW and thats the only game they know thats out there. Its a shame that they dont know there are games which are actually "fun" and are not tedious to play. Playing against bots its tedius, meningless and just plain wrong. They do matter, cause the PvP (or should I say, "real gamer" audience is speaking out.
see? there you go again. acting like a hypocrit. seriously, stop posting in this thread if you are not open to other people's views and opinions.
"its a shame that they don't know there are games which are actually "fun" and not tedious to play"
hey, here is a silly idea, they are paying 15$ a month for many months, how about they actually have fun? and they do know the joy and fun of pvp. oh yes they do. its called Counter strike and Battlefield 2.
also, PVE players DO want a challenge. but NOT pvp.
Shall I sum it up for your hypocrit mind one more time?
YOU find PVE tedious, meaningless and Wrong however, YOU are only ONE person, and NOT everybody is like YOU.
Diffrent people Like Diffrent things.
oh, and now "PVP players" are the only "real gamers" my god, your a joke.
oh, I'm the one whining?
"/cry /cry carebears won't play my games, so they must have no backbone, and don't want a challenge because obviously the only challenege possible in games is PVP".
Whoever said Im not open to others views and opinions? Ive been replying to your posts and have been quoting the whole thing. In fact, you dont even do that. You only quote half of my responses, because you dont have any argument against the ones you cut out.
it doesn't matter if you reply to them or not. People have told you over and over again that diffrent people like diffrent things. you, however, completely deny this facts and keep telling that people "just don't know what fun is", completely ignoring the fact a lot of people actually DO like PVE gameplay. also, I didn't cut out anything. as you probably noticed, the QUOTE got quite long. If I left out something, by all means, post it here and I'll blow that arguement out of the water. its very simple, because I simply base my posts on facts, you have nothing but your own opinion.
I think that PvE makes players in a stage in which they almost get addicted. The urge to simply get better overwhlems their senses and they just strive to be the best. But it doesnt make sense, even to alot of them. You reach the top - alright, now what? Different people do like different things, im not arguing that - but Im arguing that in terms of PvE vs PvP most players would choose PvP.
If that really was true, then UO would have NEVER changed. if that was true, then WoW would NOT be the number 1 mmorpg, it would be EVE or Guild Wars. or Dark age of camelot. look at the facts, its the PVE games that are being played, and the PVP games are slowly dying. heck, big commpanies like Turbine, Blizzard and SOE all make PVE games, where only a little company such as the one behind Darkfall are still foolish enough to make a PK gamme,
Youre the joke because you wont listen to me, your the one whose whining your asses of when people post threads like this, and your the one who doesnt even acknowledge it.
so I'm a joke because I don't think PVP is the best thing since sliced bread? hahaha.
also, the only one whining here is YOU. "/cry /cry Carebears won't play my games, its all carebears fault they don't make FFA full loot pvp anymore /cry".
I'm not whining for anything. In fact, I'm quite satisfied with the amount of games being offered today.
This is a very long and very unneeded thread...The online gameing market is very slim. There are only so many fools that will...
1. Buy a game
2. Pay to play that game
3. And have the free time to do it...
An open PvP game will have a even smaller market share. Why cause it is not free. Why spend hours to make somthing, only to have to replace it a couple of days latter?
In EQ's prime it had several servers, english, roleplaying, country, and everyday servers. But only two very small population PvP servers. Why? Cuase the majority of the players did not want PvP 24/7. My guild had 270 of the best players around. And not one wanted to compete in a PvP event.
I played Eve for three years, Most of that time was in Empire or low sec space. I fought in several wars, not for the fun, but to drive a competitor from the region.
Personaly I cant stand PvP, I dont like game killboards, and I dont see a big future for on line PvP. Of course I am 46 years old and my REAL LIFE killboard has more numbers on it then I can stand somtimes. That might be the reason I hate PvP so much.
The fact is the industry KNOWS what it is doing, they know to really be big in ON-Line gamming they cant have just "open PvP" games. They need to supply for the larger part of the market "the carebears" or the proper name the PvE players.
Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by sempiternal Life is competiton. In any game where there are limits, all games known to man, you are competing with any other players.In response to "Life is competition" -- I'm going to stipulate the point because it only makes my argument stronger. Perhaps not you, but MANY of us play games to get away from the unpleasantries of life.... "dog eat dog competition" being one of them. Why can't you understand that sometimes people who spend all day in competition in real life, might want to come home, flip on a game, group up with friends, and relax in a NON-competitive setting?
Because they've never experienced comp in real life at any signfiicant level, thus they have no real ability to comprehend the level of stress it can causes when you're exposed to it day in day out for 8-16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. This debate has degenerated to the point of a relgious discussion with a zealot... when someone goes that far they are unable to see any point of view but their own as being correct, it's basically just another form of troll. Move along, nothing to see here.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 Pan, this post is absolutely pathetic. You didnt quote my post back to you, you dont have any proof... How it is a reference to a bear in a bunch of rainbows? Its all in your mind. You could take it as a nice, strong bear who simply likes associating with other bears. Sure, you may not take it that way, but umm...too bad?
What's pathetic is insisting that calling people "carebears" is not a reference to the stuffed animals and cartoon of the same name. Do you really think people are dumb enough to buy that it's really just a completely coincidental combination of two words?
I havent been whining and crying because I have simply been stating facts about prejudiced people like you. Every time you enter a thread like this, you come in thinking that every PvP'r is someone who loves to gank, which simply isnt true.
So where's your proof of this, Mr. Proof-demander? Remember, you said "every PVP'r", not any specific subgroup, so you'd need proof that I think PVPers like me love to gank. I think that one particularly obnoxious subgroup of PVPers love to gank, but that's not the same thing as every PVPer.
The bottom line is that PVE-players don't need PKers. We have plenty of games to play. PVPers also have game options. People who can't find enjoyment in those games who are PKers who like to gank other people are the ones who are in need of others.
It is understandable how a ganking PKer must feel. They don't have any real power in the MMORPG marketplace as devs just don't consider their playstyle to be a formula for market success. So coming here and venting your frustration gets it off your chest and most likely gives you a sense of power that you need to feel. That being said, people of other play styles see exacty what you are up to and we will not be brow beaten, aggressively convinced or threatened into helping you get your play style back into game. We don't want you nor do we want to give you any power in this marketplace.
The non-pking PVP-players and non-pking PVE-Players have won.
Even in a tabletop RPG, you are still competing with each other for fame, the treasure, experience, friendship, reliability, trustworthyness, fairness, etc, even when cooperating together. You are also competing against the GM's creativity and imagination.
Comments
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
My comment is in Yellow.
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
My comment is in Yellow.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
My comment is in Yellow.
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
My comment is in Yellow.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
If it's such an inoffensive name, why don't you take it for yourself? Call you and people who like your playstyle carebears, since there's nothing offensive about it. Face it, unless someone is a preteen girl, comparing them or their preferred gaming style to a stuffed animal associated with rainbows and such is insulting. You wouldn't take 'carebear' as a term for yourself, because you actually know that they're not intended as a compliment or simple label. Also, you're the only one who's been whining and crying, sobbing up a storm over how prejudiced people are against 'hardcore' PVPers, when what people are really prejudiced against is jackasses. What you said above is pretty much a textbook example of being a jackass, if you want people to take your ideas seriously and respond politely to you then you need not to say things like that.
Thats the term, get over it. Its just a name, and there is nothing derogatory about it. If its THAT bad.....get off the ground, wipe the tears from your eyes, and say "Alright! thats how we're branded! I guess I'll have to put up with it." It gonna be okay Steely, really, its gonna be okay.
Now THIS is a textbook example of someone being a jackass.
And wow, this thread suddenly exploded. Why is everyone trying to be like me?
My comment is in Yellow.
Life is competiton.
In any game where there are limits, all games known to man, you are competing with any other players.
In response to "Life is competition" -- I'm going to stipulate the point because it only makes my argument stronger. Perhaps not you, but MANY of us play games to get away from the unpleasantries of life.... "dog eat dog competition" being one of them. Why can't you understand that sometimes people who spend all day in competition in real life, might want to come home, flip on a game, group up with friends, and relax in a NON-competitive setting?
Also... "All games known to man, you are competing with any other players." Not true. Table top roleplaying games are cooperative storytelling events, not competitive. Only a bad GM competes with his players, and the players are, almost always, cooperating with each other.
Since MMORPGs are derived from those very cooperative games, wanting to play them cooperatively, rather than competitively, ought not, in my opinion, to be beyond the pale.
C
In wow I can follow you around, talk dirty about your momma, pull your quest mobs, make sure you can never get that 10th piece of crocodile crap that the quest wants.
You can't do schit to stop me except maybe petition.
In Eve if you open your mouth and get stupid, I can kill you.
If you diss me I can kill you.
If you talk shit about my mom I can kill you.
If you follow me around I can kill you.
There is a feature of open PVP gaming called ENFORCED RESPECT.
Attention Deficit Disorder children get SQUASHED. Beggars. Macroers. Undesirables. Wannabe tough-guys. E-thugs.
People who think their 2 billion isk ship is l33t will lose it.
People who think they have a "right to free speech" will get their mouths shut.
People who think they have a "right to be anywhere" will be corrected.
Enforced respect.
When you talk to someone, you say "hello m8", you try to be friendly, even with your enemies you don't smacktalk. You don't burn bridges. You don't cause someone to hold a grudge.
You say sir and please and thank you.
Thats why any open PVP community is 500x better than the cesspools of PVE communities.
PVE communities people can grief you and you can't do schit about it, thats why you get all the battlenet scumbags.
Eve players aren't smarter than the average person. But compared to the rest of the MMORPG community they seem like Mensa candidates because of Enforced Respect.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
C
whining for games to be easier and for it to stay that way. Thats how
games got watered down - the carebears whined and the devs listened.
Most MMO players today have been drawn in by WoW and thats the only
game they know thats out there. Its a shame that they dont know there
are games which are actually "fun" and are not tedious to play. Playing
against bots its tedius, meningless and just plain wrong. They do
matter, cause the PvP (or should I say, "real gamer" audience is
speaking out.
see? there you go again. acting like a hypocrit. seriously, stop posting in this thread if you are not open to other people's views and opinions.
"its a shame that they don't know there are games which are actually "fun" and not tedious to play"
hey, here is a silly idea, they are paying 15$ a month for many months, how about they actually have fun?
and they do know the joy and fun of pvp. oh yes they do. its called Counter strike and Battlefield 2.
also, PVE players DO want a challenge. but NOT pvp.
Shall I sum it up for your hypocrit mind one more time?
YOU find PVE tedious, meaningless and Wrong
however, YOU are only ONE person, and NOT everybody is like YOU.
Diffrent people Like Diffrent things.
oh, and now "PVP players" are the only "real gamers" my god, your a joke.
oh, I'm the one whining?
"/cry /cry carebears won't play my games, so they must have no backbone, and don't want a challenge because obviously the only challenege possible in games is PVP".
Life is competiton.
If you are incapable of comprehending a single short sentence, they you really are a waste of time.
In any game where there are limits, all games known to man, you are competing with any other players.
If that is the case, then PKers should be happy that the survival of the fittest economics of the MMORPG has removed them from the population.
Sure.. Misses pissy. Assume all you want. But the fact is that someone asks a legitimate question and you get all on your high horse doesn't mean you know what I want to know. You don't need to be rude for no reason what so ever and if you want to assume at least put some logic in it. Then again you're probably a closet racist if you make such generalizations.
That is the best you have. MMORPGs have taken PKers out of the business model. PKers are free to cry about it, but they are out of the running. Too bad, so sad, you won't be missed.
You still don't care about why they have fun. You just want to use what they say to try to get them to see your point of view.
Haha, I can't even be bothered to clean up steel's response to me to quote it, he seems to get into a 'most unreadable post' competition ever time. Anyway Steely, You know that carebear is a reference to the carebears, pretending that it's not is just silly. We all know that you intend to insult people by using it, pretending that you're not is just silly, plus you've been told that it is so there's no excuse for continuing to use it. At first I thought you really might not realize the pattern of 'hardcore PVPer insults people - people respond back - steel whines about how everyone is prejudiced against hardcore PVPers', now I see that you must welcome it.
The crowning point was the bit where you said that I was a jackass for responding to your objections to a particular insulting term with the exact words that you used. Truly magnificent.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
In a PvE game, I usually have an /ignore command. I also have CS that have the ability to do more than say, "handle your own problem." After all, I don't send the monthly bill to other players. I send it to the provider.
In EVE you can follow a miner around, talk crap, kill the rats, and make sure he or she never gets a full can of ore back to station.
And unless you are an older account, have a bigger corp, or a bigger alliance, you can't do crap, or if you can, its only temporarily until the offender extracts revenge. You can't even petition, because its all allowed.
If someone who is more powerful disses you, you have to keep your mouth shut and suffer.
If I have more alliance mates, more ISK, and more SP, I can talk shit about you all day, because the power gives me the right.
I can follow you or have you followed, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it, except get all upset, which is what I want, or take revenge, and give myself one more kill on my alliance killboard to show you what a loser you are to everyone on Tranquility.
Yes, it is called "enforced respect," and in games like EVE its the only place where ADD kids can get respect.
Where an alliance can open themselves to begging, kill the chump, make a recording of some TS convo, and humiliate the person, without any response whatsoever.
Macroing is "honorable" when a 1,000 person alliance does it, simply because they say its true. Macroing is "dishonorable" when something more powerful says it is.
Where your total sum fees and friends give you the right to call anyone an "undesirable," for any reason you whim.
Tough guys can talk tough, and make you beg for mercy, simply because they can. Yes, ASCN and BoB can demand flattery, "sir," "please," and "thank you," but they aren't and will never be required to say it in turn.
Power gives a player in EVE the right to say things about your mother, and expect someone without it to say "thank you."
Burning bridges, smacktalk, and holding gruges is what alliances do, and the "1337er," the more they have a right to do it.
That is what three years building SP, ISK, and huge alliances will get you in EVE. However, they don't do it because they respect the players that demand respect. That is why the respect in EVE has to be "enforced," because given a choice, we'd just flat out ignore the griefers and gloaters.
PvP MMORPGs like EVE are able to capitalize on the fact that they can sell honor to the honorless, respect for the disrespectful, and the right to be an ass to the ones who demand their asshattery be taken seriously. That is what a 1,000 person alliance, more ISK, and most importantly, more sub fees to CCP will buy.
Its not the person or the guild who gets respected in a PvP game. Its the ability to pwn and grief that is put up with, only so you can get back to having the fun that your non-refundable box and sub fee entitles you to have.
That is why PvP players and guilds love PvP games, because their PvP prowress can substitute for manners, fair play, and decency.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
In CoH I had a player insulting me at every turn. I petitioned a GM. A few minutes later a GM appeared and listened for a few then the player went LD. Didnt ever hear or see him again.
Yah you can get kill me in Eve. I can get your rump BANNED in other games!!!!!!!!
Now what your proposing is a double edged sword. Enforced Respect..... It works both ways. Basically that means you HAVE to respect the stronger player. Even if he is a complete Llama loser who only gains happiness from ganking and griefing. It reminds me of an old 1930s newsreel I once saw. It was hard to make out though because it was in black and white and everyone spoke german. Forced to respect the stronger power even though they might be a complete freeze-dried-whack-a-loon.
Kai
Like anyone besides you and two of them try to read them anyways!
Yeah steel, it's lame not to admit you wanna insult them, that's kind of spineless, isn't it?
Admit it, your mother still buys yor clothes!
This is a very long and very unneeded thread...The online gameing market is very slim. There are only so many fools that will...
1. Buy a game
2. Pay to play that game
3. And have the free time to do it...
An open PvP game will have a even smaller market share. Why cause it is not free. Why spend hours to make somthing, only to have to replace it a couple of days latter?
In EQ's prime it had several servers, english, roleplaying, country, and everyday servers. But only two very small population PvP servers. Why? Cuase the majority of the players did not want PvP 24/7. My guild had 270 of the best players around. And not one wanted to compete in a PvP event.
I played Eve for three years, Most of that time was in Empire or low sec space. I fought in several wars, not for the fun, but to drive a competitor from the region.
Personaly I cant stand PvP, I dont like game killboards, and I dont see a big future for on line PvP. Of course I am 46 years old and my REAL LIFE killboard has more numbers on it then I can stand somtimes. That might be the reason I hate PvP so much.
The fact is the industry KNOWS what it is doing, they know to really be big in ON-Line gamming they cant have just "open PvP" games. They need to supply for the larger part of the market "the carebears" or the proper name the PvE players.
Because they've never experienced comp in real life at any signfiicant level, thus they have no real ability to comprehend the level of stress it can causes when you're exposed to it day in day out for 8-16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. This debate has degenerated to the point of a relgious discussion with a zealot... when someone goes that far they are unable to see any point of view but their own as being correct, it's basically just another form of troll. Move along, nothing to see here.
Shadus
What's pathetic is insisting that calling people "carebears" is not a reference to the stuffed animals and cartoon of the same name. Do you really think people are dumb enough to buy that it's really just a completely coincidental combination of two words?
So where's your proof of this, Mr. Proof-demander? Remember, you said "every PVP'r", not any specific subgroup, so you'd need proof that I think PVPers like me love to gank. I think that one particularly obnoxious subgroup of PVPers love to gank, but that's not the same thing as every PVPer.
WHERE'S YOUR PROOF?
The bottom line is that PVE-players don't need PKers. We have plenty of games to play. PVPers also have game options. People who can't find enjoyment in those games who are PKers who like to gank other people are the ones who are in need of others.
It is understandable how a ganking PKer must feel. They don't have any real power in the MMORPG marketplace as devs just don't consider their playstyle to be a formula for market success. So coming here and venting your frustration gets it off your chest and most likely gives you a sense of power that you need to feel. That being said, people of other play styles see exacty what you are up to and we will not be brow beaten, aggressively convinced or threatened into helping you get your play style back into game. We don't want you nor do we want to give you any power in this marketplace.
The non-pking PVP-players and non-pking PVE-Players have won.
Even in a tabletop RPG, you are still competing with each other for fame, the treasure, experience, friendship, reliability, trustworthyness, fairness, etc, even when cooperating together. You are also competing against the GM's creativity and imagination.