Originally posted by DemonknightI As for the popularity thing: I would say that a game that brings in $2,040,000 USD per month (170,000 * $12), is pretty popular.
Do you have any proof to back that claim up cause I doubt this game even has that many players?
Even if that were true WoW brings in over 5 million customers. This game is at the lowend of the spectrum. Actually WoW breaks the spectrum. Other than WoW the next largest MMO is under 2million subs. anything over 50k subscribers is a very successful MMO, by any standard except that of wow fanboi's who seem to think that just because a game doesn't have umpteenjillion subs it isn't good. Newsflash: Before WoW EQ was considered "king" with only 400k subscribers. EVE, in 3 years, is nearly at half that number. And it has been doubling in population every year. This year it more than doubled...
I'm not saying EVE is going to catch WoW. It won't. The Sci-Fi genre is much smaller than the Fantasy genre by simple virtue of the fact that only about 16% of MMO players are interested in sci-fi at all. And of those very few are really interested in 'hard core' Sci-Fi... EVE is doing extremely well for itself. Regardless what you want to believe. And, per recent articles Eve does in fact have 165-170,000 players of which ~145,000 are active subscribers (an increase of 75,000 subscribers since last September) and ~20,000 are trial accounts.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Originally posted by Ysharros The game is rated #1 here on the site (read carefully now) because people who love the game have cared enough to rate it that highly. It's a voting system and, really, has very little to do with the reality of how good or bad a game may be (welcome to real life politics ). Aside from the fact that "good" and "bad" are subjective judgements...
HEHEHE Add this little tidbit to the fact list: WoW has somewhere around 6 or 7 million subscribers
EVE has 145,000-150,000 subscribers per a recent EVE-TV news article and confirmed via a interview with official CCP reps as well.
Now: The ratings here are based PURELY on the scores the players give the games.
so... if EVE is so bad... why is it still #1? If everyone hated EVE as much as several posters want you to believe it would be very easy for them to cause it's rating to fall. For 3 years I've seen people say how EVE sucks or whatever. 3 years. In that time it's always been in the top 2 or 3 rated games. And for the past 2 years it's been #1.
Sorry I just don't get why people can't grasp that while EVE may not be the game for them it is not a bad game. If you don't like it... fine... leave... can I have your stuff? But saying that new players can't get into the game is patently ridiculous. They absolutely can. I did.... friends of mine in game dd.... heck we have new corp members all the time that are new to the game... truely new... and they contribute and help every bit as much as a 3 year vet. In many ways more.
As to 'never being able to catch up'? It's hogwash... pure and simple. 1) People leave the game all the time. There are far far more new players than there are even 1 year vets at this point. The average 'age' of characters in EVE is somewhere around 7 months. So yeah you absolutely CAN catch up... if you put in the time. Because eventually people burn out and take breaks or cancel or whatever. They are replaced by... GASP... new people.... Sure there are vets still in the game from 3 years ago... but they're fairly rare. Even 1yr+ old players, like myself, are relatively few in numbers, comparatively. Most players, the vast majority, are under 9 months old.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Originally posted by Taram Originally posted by DemonknightI As for the popularity thing: I would say that a game that brings in $2,040,000 USD per month (170,000 * $12), is pretty popular.
Do you have any proof to back that claim up cause I doubt this game even has that many players?
Even if that were true WoW brings in over 5 million customers. This game is at the lowend of the spectrum. Actually WoW breaks the spectrum. Other than WoW the next largest MMO is under 2million subs. anything over 50k subscribers is a very successful MMO, by any standard except that of wow fanboi's who seem to think that just because a game doesn't have umpteenjillion subs it isn't good. Newsflash: Before WoW EQ was considered "king" with only 400k subscribers. EVE, in 3 years, is nearly at half that number. And it has been doubling in population every year. This year it more than doubled...
I'm not saying EVE is going to catch WoW. It won't. The Sci-Fi genre is much smaller than the Fantasy genre by simple virtue of the fact that only about 16% of MMO players are interested in sci-fi at all. And of those very few are really interested in 'hard core' Sci-Fi... EVE is doing extremely well for itself. Regardless what you want to believe. And, per recent articles Eve does in fact have 165-170,000 players of which ~145,000 are active subscribers (an increase of 75,000 subscribers since last September) and ~20,000 are trial accounts.
There was an article posted this or last year posted in a finnish newspaper (i think)
That 2 million a month was broken up in a few different incomes.. cant remember what they were.. but it wasn't all based on subscriber income.
As for the subscriber numbers... im sorry but completley misleading.
Most of the games active players have multiple accounts... self including, i have 3.. most have 2... many people range from 2-10 accounts.
extremes of people having 20-30 accounts, while being rare.. are not unheard of.
The cookie is only having to pay an intial fee to open these accounts and then being able to fund them for ingame currency... obviously the more you have.. the more you can make..... i can fund a 30 day timecode at 180 million with 4-5 hrs work in the highest security systems just by using a couple of accounts.
It's extremely hard to put a figure on individual players actualy playing... id say that out of 30k users logged (as an example) probaly about 10-15k (if that) are individual users.
shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it.
excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Well whatever the true figre is you cant deny eve is doing well....hell at E3 the rival game devs were very congratatory to eve for what it has achieved.
And now considering the devs have just recently revieled there plans have now been extended 10 years tells you the outlook may be good for eve.
Hmmm i wonder what eve will be like in 10 years? What will planetry intereaction be like? and will my avitar be butt ugly.
tattle telling are we? know what happens to snitches lol.... do ya...
i guess when in doubt cry and tattle on the bad people that are badmouthing your game and have the "man" shut us free speaking people down.
either way i think this is a lively debate regardless of what is said as long as it has facts to base their complaint or compliment on. I dont think its the proper thing to shut down a post cause you "feel" we are saying negative things about your game. I think we are all entitled to our opinion regardless if its pointng out the negative aspects or not. you obviously one of those people snakey who prefers his head in the sand where its presumbly safe, but hey, in the end your entitled to your opinion, and IM not gonna stop you from expressing it. You should never do the same.
cause guess what snakey, im gonna express myself , if not here, somewhere else in the threads. whatcha gonna do? request all negative posts deleted? get real dude. suck it up, present your counter arguement and lets debate like adults.
remember snakey u have a choice to bypass this post, dont read it if you dont like it.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
OH TO THE ADMIN WHO IS READING THIS< DONT LOCK THIS THREAD, IF IT GETS OUT OF HAND, then yea by all means. BUT DONT SHUT a post down that is presenting presentable arguements based on what that person or person experienced as long as its structured, and in proper context, minus the playful response of course (as long as its in good taste) THINK BEFORE U DELETE OR LOCK ADMIN. thanks
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Originally posted by nakuma a post down that is presenting presentable arguements based on what that person or person experienced as long as its structured
Originally posted by nakuma shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it. excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
If you want to contribute to this so called discussion, perhaps it would be a good idea to know WTF you are talking about first, instead of regurgitating misconceptions that were outdated and inaccurate 2 1/2 years ago.
But by all means, keep acting like an idiot if that's what floats your boat.
Originally posted by nakuma shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it. excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
Originally posted by LordSlater Originally posted by nakuma shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it. excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
Lol this alone shows you have NEVER played eve. Yeah, quite clearly. Everyone knows you can take a nap on top of that as well!
Just kidding. Before i start i'd like to mention a few things about myself as i've trudged through these 20 pages to catch up, admittedly skipping most of the flaming and misplaced arguments.
I have played Eve for two and a half years, then took a 6 month break due to RL commitments.
Hence i have a substantial amount of SP - just over 30mil in fact.
I have never PvPed due to fear of losing my implants, however i have tried defending myself from pirates on numerous occasions when mining or hunting low sec and not being alert, and therefore getting my ass whipped. In fact, this reminds me of a lesson i learned quite late compared to most people. You should never attempt to venture around low sec systems without warp core stabilisers. For those of you that are unaware, these modules counter the enemy's attempt to stop you warping out of the area you are in. Simple? Yes, definately, but a perfect example of how knowledge in eve outranks skill points anyday.
I have always been in a player corp since about three days into the game.
I have been lucky in the people i met and befriended. One particular guy has been very good to me and has indeed helped me out a lot money-wise, but in all honesty i believe that has just slowed down my growth as a player. Sure i got into a battleship a lot quicker, but what good does that do? I still to this day can't hold my own in a PvP situation, and that's what i'd like to achieve most, however it has been a more recent goal.
To begin with i am dissappointed by the few Eve players on this forum that support the "if you don't like it, don't play it and don't post your problems with the game here" stance. As somebody has already said, everyone has a right to speak their mind and it is interesting to hear other people's viewpoints. Personally i'd like to straighten out other people's incorrect statements and try to get them to see Eve the way i do, or atleast try to enlighten them as to why so many thousands of people think it's the best MMO around.
Right, i'm just going to blurt out my thoughts before i lose them all - it's taken me days to read through all this!
Demonknight:
I believe you have given EVE a chance and really would like to see the appeal although your opening post seemed to say otherwise. Perhaps for you it's just one of those games you don't like, and no amount of trying to like it will help.
Personally i love EVE but one major gripe i used to have with it is that it can take hours to do very little in the game. Maybe it's that i'm the one who is slow, but many people have felt the same about this. Don't get me wrong, i still love the things i get done in that time, but i don't like to know i've mined for three hours when it feels like half an hour, therefore i'm "wasting" the hours of my day.
I have a story that may just open your eyes to how good there game is. Apologies if i'm completely missing the point but i'm knackered.
In my first month in EVE i wondered by Scolluzer, a well known market system, as i was going to buy a few ship modules. In local the CEO of a player-corp was announcing a race that was to take place in that region set up by him and his corp. It was for anyone.
The rules: shuttles only, only one racer from the same corp to partake. The prize: 1st place - Thorax, a Gallente cruiser worth 5.5mil ; 2nd place - 3 mil isk ; 3rd place - 1 mil isk The fee: nothing
Naturally i was excited - the race consisted of jumping 5 systems to a fixed location, then trying to find the other corpmate within that system. He could be in one of the 14 asteroid belts, 5 stations, 6 planets, 9 moons or at the sun. Yes, it was random.
Being one of the more noob characters in the race i reached the destination simply 30 seconds after the first guy because of inferior nav skills, but the beauty of this game was that SP had very little effect giving noobs more of a chance. I tried the second station on the list - no luck. Then felt like trying the 5th, and to my surprise there he was - I won the cruiser!!
But it isn't the prize i'm bothered about, although that was different at the time! But rather the concept. Basically the mechanics of the game allow you to do something as simple as this, birthed by a bit of imagination, and the reaction is fantastic. It's so much more fun than it sounds,and everyone was dying to race again for the following few weeks.
Another example is that our corp were going to have our own little PvP tournament that sparked from me and a corpmate bragging about who's a better pilot - i hate to admit it but it was probably him haha - and because of the way the game works (corp mates can attack each other safely without concord, the police force, interrupting) you can do exactly that. I really wish we did now because it would have been awesome. So the point i guess is that the game is what you make it, and you really can do practically anything within the context of the game.
So the question i ask is how can you not like the game?
SPs matter, i'm not going to hide that fact. I also wouldn't like to be a beginner these days either - not for the fear of never being able to compete but rather that i would be so far behind the vets. However what you must remember is that there is a balancing act - there are loads of noobs but sooner or later the vets get tired of the game and leave for that reason (seen it all, nothing's new) or the fact that they can't commit to the game anymore due to real-life issues.
I have to ask though, what is so great about a game like WoW where noobs can catch up all to easily? Surely there's nothing in it for the veteran players if it's that easy to challenge them.
You say eve is never going to be popular, but you are incorrect. It is a fact that EVE is extremely popular and is growing more and more by the minute. The skill system is a vital part of the game and is a key reason for people disliking it. But on the other hand it is important to why people do like it and there is enough of a skill vs. knowledge balance to make it work for the newer players. If you don't like the system then it's a shame, but i think if anything, EVE should be praised for attempting something different and furthermore for making it work.
I have to say though, that despite all this you are right that to some extent you won't catch up to the older players, and it's dissappointing to know you'd have loved it if you knew about the game at the time, but trust me - it's not too late, many vets go inactive like myself all the time which loses them a good portion of skilling time so you will eventually catch up.
Plus many vets i know were very slow to increase their learning skills making them get to where they are much slower than you could. New characters these days get more starting SP and twice the attributes than in my day, and the advanced learning skills are available to you from the word go, whereas we had to wait till Cold War for them, which was just over a year ago! And finally, due to the many people that PvP these days, they don't have the head of implants that you could have to speed up your skilling.
Sorry this went on so long. I banked up a LOT of things to say after all those pages of discussion and forgot most of them, and still have a lot more to say so i will do so later on - many things that may have been already touched upon but i am unaware of.
Originally posted by DemonknightI If you're new and thinking about playing this game don't bother. You're just going to waste a lot of time and be target practice for players who had the game since release. There's no way to compete unless you can form a gang with older members.
a lot of what u said was just flamebait
the quoted statement however is 100% wrong. Here is why:
[1] it was calculated that it would take 19 years to learn every single skill in the game to its top level. No one knows everything.
[2] The number of skills required to do any ONE thing are relatively small: for his 3 years a vet probably only uses 3 months worth to totally master frigates for example, the other skills DO NOT apply to this vessel. So in 3 months you can fly at exactly the same level as a vet in a frigate. It is largely this that renders your argument totally incorrect.
125k+ subs and the record for players online + no shards = i would just stfu if i were you.
For all thoose carebears out there whos afraid of old players Vs new players..
Nobody is perfekt! And that works in EVE to...! Means u dont have to be afraid and think "I will never stand a chance." This isnot WoW or some other lame game where its all about levels. Im a LvL 30 warrior so i kick your LvL 25 one!"
You all need to think otherwise to understand EVE. Nobody is perfekt! How does alot of skillpoints (Yes its skillpoints in EVE - not XP) help u out, if your focus has been on industrial skills etc and u stand there in a PvP situation??? They dont! Means even a nOOb can kill a Vet! Or even better: If a even hardcore PvP'er is hauling something or doing whatever, thats dont incl. a ship for fighting, then what are all thoose skillpoint in guns etc good for, when your stucked in a ship for another purpose then fighting?? So again: This is not WoW or something like all thoose leveling games. Dont fear a old player just because his one.
EVE sets the surroundings, the rest are for the players to deal with. EVE is a soap opera and needless to say, your in complete freedom. If u like quests, talk to some agents for some missions. If u dont, dont talk to them. Its that simple all the way!! Triggerhappy? Go grap a cruiser and start shooting, join a pirate corp - whatever!! The only thing u cant do, is saying "I dont stand a chance" because that might be true for a LvL 25 Vs a LvL 30 one but this is EVE Just do it! Dont get stucked in some NPC corp or something. If i remeber correct, the tutorial repeatedly tells its very wise to join a player corp and not to get stucked in the NPC one.. And trust me.. Its very wise... If u played EVE for 2 mounth, mining alone, been in a NPC corps since days 1, trading etc etc and then get blown up, plz stop your whining in here!! Being a carebear all the time can be painfull but a living for others U dont have a big LvL 30 tag to hide behind here. Deal with it in-game, get involved in the huge communication between players by first of all join a player corp or hell - even make your own with your own flavor and get members if your that kind of a player - just play the game. Cool isnt it?
I could write for 10 hours trying to explain the difference between EVE and other MMORPG's. Everything from the fact that in runs on a single server as the only MMORPG insted of multiples, to the fact that EVE is getting bigger and bigger - unlike every other game who has a "golden period" before people starts fading away. And dont say its a coinsidense.
I've been an eve player for a little over a year and am thoroughly addicted. My wife usually calls me an A.D.D. gamer, meaning I'm always buying something new, playing it for a little while, and then moving on to something else. Eve is the only game that has captured my attention fully, there is ALWAYS something else to do, something else to train for, a different skill path to explore. CCP, the games creators, started small with only a few programers with a vision and have been at it ever since. They are constantly tweaking the code, making it more balanced, more fun, adding new content regularly, and always doing so with the input of the players. They have some of the best customer service that I have ever seen in any game and keep in close touch with the community.
As for the 'older players will always win over younger players' comment, that is far from the truth. Some friends created brand spanking new characters, complete noobs, and we went out with our week old characters and took on 1 year + toons with only basic frigates, fittings, and a handfull of skills. It's not what you have but how you use it in Eve; Knowledge is everything. Know your ships, skills, and what you can do with them and anything is possible. We regularly went out into lower security status (being smart and always watching where we were going and where we came from to make sure we weren't 'ganked' ourselves) and found the occasional solo veteran battleship, locked him down, and took him into almost being 'hulled' and then ransomed him for the worth of his ship, modules, and implants - usually more than 100mil a shot. We would also regularly 'duel' in high sec space, 1vs1 or 2vs2 etc, against older players that thought they could take us, only to be sorely spanked instead.
Eve is not a Solo game, that's for sure. Granted, it can be done, it's just much harder. It's all about community, working together, accomplishing a common goal of some sort - be it simply spending time together and mining a bit for money, running a complex (eve dungeons), or manufacturing modules and ships to create an economy in a desolate area. Anything can be accomplished and the players have a tremendous amount of control. Entire systems change hands on a daily basis in contested space through combat and smarts which in turn drives the thriving economy that has almost everything manufactured by the players.
Nothing comes 'easy' in eve. You have to work at it, learn the game, make friends and not be affraid to loose a ship from time to time. Eve is the perfect game for someone that doesn't have 5-10 hours a day to devote to grinding for skills. I work 10 hour days most of the time and I can still be training skills while I'm not online so that I can just have fun when I am and not grind for experience.
If you are someone interested in trying out eve go for it. It's free, so no harm no foul. Create a toon, screw around for a week and have some fun, get to know people and read the forums at www.eve-online.com and see what might interest you the most then start working for it. Ask questions, there is always someone willing to help out a new player if you are polite.
This argument has been concluded several times, with even attempts to have it respawned by "ciricumstancial" or "ridiculous" claims. The argument - "doubt the game has 30k subscribers" answer "145k subscribers, 20k trials, average of 2.4 accounts per player IF any of the 30 accounts BS is factual let alone 10 accounts - only refers to macroers people, no one else would ever dream of trying to keep up with that many skill trees. so this leaves with around 60614 actual players. My assumption is that it is more around the 80 thousand mark (refering to bloodline deal)" All other arguments have no relation to the actual topic. They are personal opinions of the games dynamics, and whether it deserves the number 1 position on a MMO forum, which rates its games by forum users ratings.
If you people don't get over this topic, which has been twisted and turned everywhich way it will become blander then it already is.
PS; If the theory of the average gamer having two accounts on an MMO, wouldn't that reduce the "oh high and mighty" WoW player base from 5-6 million to 2.5-3 million. Would this matter in any way.... NO!
Please admin, lock the topic because it is no longer on topic. If they wish to argue the games dynamics, let them create their own topics.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
I'm sorry, I don't have anything to add except for alot of laughter and the fact that someone here didn't even bother to figure out what the 30k meant (It's a floggin' worldrecord..)
EvE, yet again proves there is a place for Darwins theories.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
Originally posted by nakuma shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it. excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
Lol this alone shows you have NEVER played eve. Yeah, quite clearly. Everyone knows you can take a nap on top of that as well!
Just kidding. Before i start i'd like to mention a few things about myself as i've trudged through these 20 pages to catch up, admittedly skipping most of the flaming and misplaced arguments.
I have played Eve for two and a half years, then took a 6 month break due to RL commitments.
Hence i have a substantial amount of SP - just over 30mil in fact.
I have never PvPed due to fear of losing my implants, however i have tried defending myself from pirates on numerous occasions when mining or hunting low sec and not being alert, and therefore getting my ass whipped. In fact, this reminds me of a lesson i learned quite late compared to most people. You should never attempt to venture around low sec systems without warp core stabilisers. For those of you that are unaware, these modules counter the enemy's attempt to stop you warping out of the area you are in. Simple? Yes, definately, but a perfect example of how knowledge in eve outranks skill points anyday.
I have always been in a player corp since about three days into the game.
I have been lucky in the people i met and befriended. One particular guy has been very good to me and has indeed helped me out a lot money-wise, but in all honesty i believe that has just slowed down my growth as a player. Sure i got into a battleship a lot quicker, but what good does that do? I still to this day can't hold my own in a PvP situation, and that's what i'd like to achieve most, however it has been a more recent goal.
To begin with i am dissappointed by the few Eve players on this forum that support the "if you don't like it, don't play it and don't post your problems with the game here" stance. As somebody has already said, everyone has a right to speak their mind and it is interesting to hear other people's viewpoints. Personally i'd like to straighten out other people's incorrect statements and try to get them to see Eve the way i do, or atleast try to enlighten them as to why so many thousands of people think it's the best MMO around.
Right, i'm just going to blurt out my thoughts before i lose them all - it's taken me days to read through all this!
Demonknight:
I believe you have given EVE a chance and really would like to see the appeal although your opening post seemed to say otherwise. Perhaps for you it's just one of those games you don't like, and no amount of trying to like it will help.
Personally i love EVE but one major gripe i used to have with it is that it can take hours to do very little in the game. Maybe it's that i'm the one who is slow, but many people have felt the same about this. Don't get me wrong, i still love the things i get done in that time, but i don't like to know i've mined for three hours when it feels like half an hour, therefore i'm "wasting" the hours of my day.
I have a story that may just open your eyes to how good there game is. Apologies if i'm completely missing the point but i'm knackered.
In my first month in EVE i wondered by Scolluzer, a well known market system, as i was going to buy a few ship modules. In local the CEO of a player-corp was announcing a race that was to take place in that region set up by him and his corp. It was for anyone.
The rules: shuttles only, only one racer from the same corp to partake. The prize: 1st place - Thorax, a Gallente cruiser worth 5.5mil ; 2nd place - 3 mil isk ; 3rd place - 1 mil isk The fee: nothing
Naturally i was excited - the race consisted of jumping 5 systems to a fixed location, then trying to find the other corpmate within that system. He could be in one of the 14 asteroid belts, 5 stations, 6 planets, 9 moons or at the sun. Yes, it was random.
Being one of the more noob characters in the race i reached the destination simply 30 seconds after the first guy because of inferior nav skills, but the beauty of this game was that SP had very little effect giving noobs more of a chance. I tried the second station on the list - no luck. Then felt like trying the 5th, and to my surprise there he was - I won the cruiser!!
But it isn't the prize i'm bothered about, although that was different at the time! But rather the concept. Basically the mechanics of the game allow you to do something as simple as this, birthed by a bit of imagination, and the reaction is fantastic. It's so much more fun than it sounds,and everyone was dying to race again for the following few weeks.
Another example is that our corp were going to have our own little PvP tournament that sparked from me and a corpmate bragging about who's a better pilot - i hate to admit it but it was probably him haha - and because of the way the game works (corp mates can attack each other safely without concord, the police force, interrupting) you can do exactly that. I really wish we did now because it would have been awesome. So the point i guess is that the game is what you make it, and you really can do practically anything within the context of the game.
So the question i ask is how can you not like the game?
SPs matter, i'm not going to hide that fact. I also wouldn't like to be a beginner these days either - not for the fear of never being able to compete but rather that i would be so far behind the vets. However what you must remember is that there is a balancing act - there are loads of noobs but sooner or later the vets get tired of the game and leave for that reason (seen it all, nothing's new) or the fact that they can't commit to the game anymore due to real-life issues.
I have to ask though, what is so great about a game like WoW where noobs can catch up all to easily? Surely there's nothing in it for the veteran players if it's that easy to challenge them.
You say eve is never going to be popular, but you are incorrect. It is a fact that EVE is extremely popular and is growing more and more by the minute. The skill system is a vital part of the game and is a key reason for people disliking it. But on the other hand it is important to why people do like it and there is enough of a skill vs. knowledge balance to make it work for the newer players. If you don't like the system then it's a shame, but i think if anything, EVE should be praised for attempting something different and furthermore for making it work.
I have to say though, that despite all this you are right that to some extent you won't catch up to the older players, and it's dissappointing to know you'd have loved it if you knew about the game at the time, but trust me - it's not too late, many vets go inactive like myself all the time which loses them a good portion of skilling time so you will eventually catch up.
Plus many vets i know were very slow to increase their learning skills making them get to where they are much slower than you could. New characters these days get more starting SP and twice the attributes than in my day, and the advanced learning skills are available to you from the word go, whereas we had to wait till Cold War for them, which was just over a year ago! And finally, due to the many people that PvP these days, they don't have the head of implants that you could have to speed up your skilling.
Sorry this went on so long. I banked up a LOT of things to say after all those pages of discussion and forgot most of them, and still have a lot more to say so i will do so later on - many things that may have been already touched upon but i am unaware of.
well first off, i have played EVE online, i played for almost 3 months maybe closer to 4, i was part of the ASCN alliance, with TOG. so let me stop you right there before you put your foot in your mouth.
eh...sorry too late. want any ketchup for that foot?
seconly and more importantly, DAYUMMM!! have alot on our mind I see! Id check if you missed anyting, but id probably drown in that sea of letters and go crossed eyed from so much reading.
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but lets not loose focus, Im sure its fun for you, I have my reasons why I do not like it, but I will save you the time of reading my reasons, I think you already lost enough minutes of your life reading Dmaiusonasi post that you wont get back. but he has valid reasons nonetheless for why its a good EVE, and know what? good for you, enjoy the game, I wish you the best, pvp, and mine to your hearts content. everyone likes what they like, and hey I wont stop you from liking it,
but dont come at me like a fanantical conversative zealot trying your best to convert me to your way of life lol. hey either way you made valid points, and I admire that, but its not going to make me wanna play the game any more, and is not going to convince me that the given reasons you stated are reasons for me to play. in the end play for yourself, and if people come under their own accord and enjoy it, then so be it, but dont flame or badger a person or insult them for sayng "i dont like this game and this is why" or makes a stab at using a silly remark to highlight what they dont like about a game. that in of its self is censorship. I wont censor you for liking EVE, in fact I respect the fact tha you took the whole 3 and half days to write that stuff for my amusement and give me a better perspective on its mechanics and how a person enjoys this game. its all good bub, do ya thing. I wont stop you. If you wish Ill state the reason why i dont like this game but i wont write it til you request it, so as to save myself and you some time. lol
oh in regards to those prior posts? im sorry im just naturally sarcastic and condesending. cant help it, just how i am.
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Comments
Even if that were true WoW brings in over 5 million customers. This game is at the lowend of the spectrum.
Actually WoW breaks the spectrum. Other than WoW the next largest MMO is under 2million subs. anything over 50k subscribers is a very successful MMO, by any standard except that of wow fanboi's who seem to think that just because a game doesn't have umpteenjillion subs it isn't good. Newsflash: Before WoW EQ was considered "king" with only 400k subscribers. EVE, in 3 years, is nearly at half that number. And it has been doubling in population every year. This year it more than doubled...
I'm not saying EVE is going to catch WoW. It won't. The Sci-Fi genre is much smaller than the Fantasy genre by simple virtue of the fact that only about 16% of MMO players are interested in sci-fi at all. And of those very few are really interested in 'hard core' Sci-Fi... EVE is doing extremely well for itself. Regardless what you want to believe. And, per recent articles Eve does in fact have 165-170,000 players of which ~145,000 are active subscribers (an increase of 75,000 subscribers since last September) and ~20,000 are trial accounts.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
HEHEHE
Add this little tidbit to the fact list:
WoW has somewhere around 6 or 7 million subscribers
EVE has 145,000-150,000 subscribers per a recent EVE-TV news article and confirmed via a interview with official CCP reps as well.
Now: The ratings here are based PURELY on the scores the players give the games.
so... if EVE is so bad... why is it still #1? If everyone hated EVE as much as several posters want you to believe it would be very easy for them to cause it's rating to fall. For 3 years I've seen people say how EVE sucks or whatever. 3 years. In that time it's always been in the top 2 or 3 rated games. And for the past 2 years it's been #1.
Sorry I just don't get why people can't grasp that while EVE may not be the game for them it is not a bad game. If you don't like it... fine... leave... can I have your stuff? But saying that new players can't get into the game is patently ridiculous. They absolutely can. I did.... friends of mine in game dd.... heck we have new corp members all the time that are new to the game... truely new... and they contribute and help every bit as much as a 3 year vet. In many ways more.
As to 'never being able to catch up'? It's hogwash... pure and simple. 1) People leave the game all the time. There are far far more new players than there are even 1 year vets at this point. The average 'age' of characters in EVE is somewhere around 7 months. So yeah you absolutely CAN catch up... if you put in the time. Because eventually people burn out and take breaks or cancel or whatever. They are replaced by... GASP... new people.... Sure there are vets still in the game from 3 years ago... but they're fairly rare. Even 1yr+ old players, like myself, are relatively few in numbers, comparatively. Most players, the vast majority, are under 9 months old.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
some people enjoy fast phased games, like wow, swg, etc...
some enjoy a game like eve online, afther all eve online is the only of its kind on the market. that i know off.
Even if that were true WoW brings in over 5 million customers. This game is at the lowend of the spectrum.
Actually WoW breaks the spectrum. Other than WoW the next largest MMO is under 2million subs. anything over 50k subscribers is a very successful MMO, by any standard except that of wow fanboi's who seem to think that just because a game doesn't have umpteenjillion subs it isn't good. Newsflash: Before WoW EQ was considered "king" with only 400k subscribers. EVE, in 3 years, is nearly at half that number. And it has been doubling in population every year. This year it more than doubled...
I'm not saying EVE is going to catch WoW. It won't. The Sci-Fi genre is much smaller than the Fantasy genre by simple virtue of the fact that only about 16% of MMO players are interested in sci-fi at all. And of those very few are really interested in 'hard core' Sci-Fi... EVE is doing extremely well for itself. Regardless what you want to believe. And, per recent articles Eve does in fact have 165-170,000 players of which ~145,000 are active subscribers (an increase of 75,000 subscribers since last September) and ~20,000 are trial accounts.
And it is all on one server.
Perhaps to help kill this thread we should either...
1. Not post in here and let only deamongay post here on his own.
2. Report his posts here [every one] for flaming till they get the message.
There was an article posted this or last year posted in a finnish newspaper (i think)
That 2 million a month was broken up in a few different incomes.. cant remember what they were.. but it wasn't all based on subscriber income.
As for the subscriber numbers... im sorry but completley misleading.
Most of the games active players have multiple accounts... self including, i have 3.. most have 2... many people range from 2-10 accounts.
extremes of people having 20-30 accounts, while being rare.. are not unheard of.
The cookie is only having to pay an intial fee to open these accounts and then being able to fund them for ingame currency... obviously the more you have.. the more you can make..... i can fund a 30 day timecode at 180 million with 4-5 hrs work in the highest security systems just by using a couple of accounts.
It's extremely hard to put a figure on individual players actualy playing... id say that out of 30k users logged (as an example) probaly about 10-15k (if that) are individual users.
shhhh im mining, it takes load of concentration and balacing of my ships diagnostic doodads and thinga mah bobs!...you see that red button there? i dont know what it does eiither, but it sure looks pretty doesnt it.
excuse me while i turn my mining laser on auto and go cook dinner, mow the grass, take the dog for a walk, and teach my daughter paino lessons. lol
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Well whatever the true figre is you cant deny eve is doing well....hell at E3 the rival game devs were very congratatory to eve for what it has achieved.
And now considering the devs have just recently revieled there plans have now been extended 10 years tells you the outlook may be good for eve.
Hmmm i wonder what eve will be like in 10 years? What will planetry intereaction be like? and will my avitar be butt ugly.
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Sent a report to the mods to hopefully get this freaking topic locked.
Enough is enough. Let this shit die.
Don't like EVE? Who cares, the ppl here do.
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tattle telling are we? know what happens to snitches lol.... do ya...
i guess when in doubt cry and tattle on the bad people that are badmouthing your game and have the "man" shut us free speaking people down.
either way i think this is a lively debate regardless of what is said as long as it has facts to base their complaint or compliment on. I dont think its the proper thing to shut down a post cause you "feel" we are saying negative things about your game. I think we are all entitled to our opinion regardless if its pointng out the negative aspects or not. you obviously one of those people snakey who prefers his head in the sand where its presumbly safe, but hey, in the end your entitled to your opinion, and IM not gonna stop you from expressing it. You should never do the same.
cause guess what snakey, im gonna express myself , if not here, somewhere else in the threads. whatcha gonna do? request all negative posts deleted? get real dude. suck it up, present your counter arguement and lets debate like adults.
remember snakey u have a choice to bypass this post, dont read it if you dont like it.
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3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
LE' SNOOOZE, LE' BOREDOM!
OH yeah... Real informative.
Dumbass.
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you want to contribute to this so called discussion, perhaps it would
be a good idea to know WTF you are talking about first, instead of
regurgitating misconceptions that were outdated and inaccurate 2 1/2
years ago.
But by all means, keep acting like an idiot if that's what floats your boat.
Yeah, quite clearly. Everyone knows you can take a nap on top of that as well!
Just kidding. Before i start i'd like to mention a few things about myself as i've trudged through these 20 pages to catch up, admittedly skipping most of the flaming and misplaced arguments.
- I have played Eve for two and a half years, then took a 6 month break due to RL commitments.
- Hence i have a substantial amount of SP - just over 30mil in fact.
- I have never PvPed due to fear of losing my implants, however i have tried defending myself from pirates on numerous occasions when mining or hunting low sec and not being alert, and therefore getting my ass whipped. In fact, this reminds me of a lesson i learned quite late compared to most people. You should never attempt to venture around low sec systems without warp core stabilisers. For those of you that are unaware, these modules counter the enemy's attempt to stop you warping out of the area you are in. Simple? Yes, definately, but a perfect example of how knowledge in eve outranks skill points anyday.
- I have always been in a player corp since about three days into the game.
- I have been lucky in the people i met and befriended. One particular guy has been very good to me and has indeed helped me out a lot money-wise, but in all honesty i believe that has just slowed down my growth as a player. Sure i got into a battleship a lot quicker, but what good does that do? I still to this day can't hold my own in a PvP situation, and that's what i'd like to achieve most, however it has been a more recent goal.
To begin with i am dissappointed by the few Eve players on this forum that support the "if you don't like it, don't play it and don't post your problems with the game here" stance. As somebody has already said, everyone has a right to speak their mind and it is interesting to hear other people's viewpoints.Personally i'd like to straighten out other people's incorrect statements and try to get them to see Eve the way i do, or atleast try to enlighten them as to why so many thousands of people think it's the best MMO around.
Right, i'm just going to blurt out my thoughts before i lose them all - it's taken me days to read through all this!
Demonknight:
I believe you have given EVE a chance and really would like to see the appeal although your opening post seemed to say otherwise. Perhaps for you it's just one of those games you don't like, and no amount of trying to like it will help.
Personally i love EVE but one major gripe i used to have with it is that it can take hours to do very little in the game. Maybe it's that i'm the one who is slow, but many people have felt the same about this. Don't get me wrong, i still love the things i get done in that time, but i don't like to know i've mined for three hours when it feels like half an hour, therefore i'm "wasting" the hours of my day.
I have a story that may just open your eyes to how good there game is. Apologies if i'm completely missing the point but i'm knackered.
In my first month in EVE i wondered by Scolluzer, a well known market system, as i was going to buy a few ship modules. In local the CEO of a player-corp was announcing a race that was to take place in that region set up by him and his corp. It was for anyone.
The rules: shuttles only, only one racer from the same corp to partake.
The prize: 1st place - Thorax, a Gallente cruiser worth 5.5mil ; 2nd place - 3 mil isk ; 3rd place - 1 mil isk
The fee: nothing
Naturally i was excited - the race consisted of jumping 5 systems to a fixed location, then trying to find the other corpmate within that system. He could be in one of the 14 asteroid belts, 5 stations, 6 planets, 9 moons or at the sun. Yes, it was random.
Being one of the more noob characters in the race i reached the destination simply 30 seconds after the first guy because of inferior nav skills, but the beauty of this game was that SP had very little effect giving noobs more of a chance.
I tried the second station on the list - no luck. Then felt like trying the 5th, and to my surprise there he was - I won the cruiser!!
But it isn't the prize i'm bothered about, although that was different at the time! But rather the concept. Basically the mechanics of the game allow you to do something as simple as this, birthed by a bit of imagination, and the reaction is fantastic. It's so much more fun than it sounds,and everyone was dying to race again for the following few weeks.
Another example is that our corp were going to have our own little PvP tournament that sparked from me and a corpmate bragging about who's a better pilot - i hate to admit it but it was probably him haha - and because of the way the game works (corp mates can attack each other safely without concord, the police force, interrupting) you can do exactly that. I really wish we did now because it would have been awesome. So the point i guess is that the game is what you make it, and you really can do practically anything within the context of the game.
So the question i ask is how can you not like the game?
SPs matter, i'm not going to hide that fact. I also wouldn't like to be a beginner these days either - not for the fear of never being able to compete but rather that i would be so far behind the vets.
However what you must remember is that there is a balancing act - there are loads of noobs but sooner or later the vets get tired of the game and leave for that reason (seen it all, nothing's new) or the fact that they can't commit to the game anymore due to real-life issues.
I have to ask though, what is so great about a game like WoW where noobs can catch up all to easily? Surely there's nothing in it for the veteran players if it's that easy to challenge them.
You say eve is never going to be popular, but you are incorrect. It is a fact that EVE is extremely popular and is growing more and more by the minute. The skill system is a vital part of the game and is a key reason for people disliking it. But on the other hand it is important to why people do like it and there is enough of a skill vs. knowledge balance to make it work for the newer players. If you don't like the system then it's a shame, but i think if anything, EVE should be praised for attempting something different and furthermore for making it work.
I have to say though, that despite all this you are right that to some extent you won't catch up to the older players, and it's dissappointing to know you'd have loved it if you knew about the game at the time, but trust me - it's not too late, many vets go inactive like myself all the time which loses them a good portion of skilling time so you will eventually catch up.
Plus many vets i know were very slow to increase their learning skills making them get to where they are much slower than you could.
New characters these days get more starting SP and twice the attributes than in my day, and the advanced learning skills are available to you from the word go, whereas we had to wait till Cold War for them, which was just over a year ago!
And finally, due to the many people that PvP these days, they don't have the head of implants that you could have to speed up your skilling.
Sorry this went on so long. I banked up a LOT of things to say after all those pages of discussion and forgot most of them, and still have a lot more to say so i will do so later on - many things that may have been already touched upon but i am unaware of.
a lot of what u said was just flamebait
the quoted statement however is 100% wrong. Here is why:
[1] it was calculated that it would take 19 years to learn every single skill in the game to its top level. No one knows everything.
[2] The number of skills required to do any ONE thing are relatively small: for his 3 years a vet probably only uses 3 months worth to totally master frigates for example, the other skills DO NOT apply to this vessel. So in 3 months you can fly at exactly the same level as a vet in a frigate. It is largely this that renders your argument totally incorrect.
125k+ subs and the record for players online + no shards = i would just stfu if i were you.
nuff said,
For all thoose carebears out there whos afraid of old players Vs new players..
Nobody is perfekt! And that works in EVE to...! Means u dont have to be afraid and think "I will never stand a chance." This is not WoW or some other lame game where its all about levels. Im a LvL 30 warrior so i kick your LvL 25 one!"
You all need to think otherwise to understand EVE. Nobody is perfekt! How does alot of skillpoints (Yes its skillpoints in EVE - not XP) help u out, if your focus has been on industrial skills etc and u stand there in a PvP situation??? They dont! Means even a nOOb can kill a Vet! Or even better:
If a even hardcore PvP'er is hauling something or doing whatever, thats dont incl. a ship for fighting, then what are all thoose skillpoint in guns etc good for, when your stucked in a ship for another purpose then fighting??
So again: This is not WoW or something like all thoose leveling games. Dont fear a old player just because his one.
EVE sets the surroundings, the rest are for the players to deal with. EVE is a soap opera
and needless to say, your in complete freedom. If u like quests, talk to some agents for some missions. If u dont, dont talk to them. Its that simple all the way!! Triggerhappy? Go grap a cruiser and start shooting, join a pirate corp - whatever!! The only thing u cant do, is saying "I dont stand a chance" because that might be true for a LvL 25 Vs a LvL 30 one but this is EVE 
Just do it! Dont get stucked in some NPC corp or something. If i remeber correct, the tutorial repeatedly tells its very wise to join a player corp and not to get stucked in the NPC one.. And trust me.. Its very wise... If u played EVE for 2 mounth, mining alone, been in a NPC corps since days 1, trading etc etc and then get blown up, plz stop your whining in here!! Being a carebear all the time can be painfull but a living for others 
U dont have a big LvL 30 tag to hide behind here. Deal with it in-game, get involved in the huge communication between players by first of all join a player corp or hell - even make your own with your own flavor and get members if your that kind of a player - just play the game. Cool isnt it? 
I could write for 10 hours trying to explain the difference between EVE and other MMORPG's. Everything from the fact that in runs on a single server as the only MMORPG insted of multiples, to the fact that EVE is getting bigger and bigger - unlike every other game who has a "golden period" before people starts fading away. And dont say its a coinsidense.
I've been an eve player for a little over a year and am thoroughly addicted. My wife usually calls me an A.D.D. gamer, meaning I'm always buying something new, playing it for a little while, and then moving on to something else. Eve is the only game that has captured my attention fully, there is ALWAYS something else to do, something else to train for, a different skill path to explore. CCP, the games creators, started small with only a few programers with a vision and have been at it ever since. They are constantly tweaking the code, making it more balanced, more fun, adding new content regularly, and always doing so with the input of the players. They have some of the best customer service that I have ever seen in any game and keep in close touch with the community.
As for the 'older players will always win over younger players' comment, that is far from the truth. Some friends created brand spanking new characters, complete noobs, and we went out with our week old characters and took on 1 year + toons with only basic frigates, fittings, and a handfull of skills. It's not what you have but how you use it in Eve; Knowledge is everything. Know your ships, skills, and what you can do with them and anything is possible. We regularly went out into lower security status (being smart and always watching where we were going and where we came from to make sure we weren't 'ganked' ourselves) and found the occasional solo veteran battleship, locked him down, and took him into almost being 'hulled' and then ransomed him for the worth of his ship, modules, and implants - usually more than 100mil a shot. We would also regularly 'duel' in high sec space, 1vs1 or 2vs2 etc, against older players that thought they could take us, only to be sorely spanked instead.
Eve is not a Solo game, that's for sure. Granted, it can be done, it's just much harder. It's all about community, working together, accomplishing a common goal of some sort - be it simply spending time together and mining a bit for money, running a complex (eve dungeons), or manufacturing modules and ships to create an economy in a desolate area. Anything can be accomplished and the players have a tremendous amount of control. Entire systems change hands on a daily basis in contested space through combat and smarts which in turn drives the thriving economy that has almost everything manufactured by the players.
Nothing comes 'easy' in eve. You have to work at it, learn the game, make friends and not be affraid to loose a ship from time to time. Eve is the perfect game for someone that doesn't have 5-10 hours a day to devote to grinding for skills. I work 10 hour days most of the time and I can still be training skills while I'm not online so that I can just have fun when I am and not grind for experience.
If you are someone interested in trying out eve go for it. It's free, so no harm no foul. Create a toon, screw around for a week and have some fun, get to know people and read the forums at www.eve-online.com and see what might interest you the most then start working for it. Ask questions, there is always someone willing to help out a new player if you are polite.
Eve is simply a thinking persons game
This argument has been concluded several times, with even attempts to have it respawned by "ciricumstancial" or "ridiculous" claims. The argument - "doubt the game has 30k subscribers" answer "145k subscribers, 20k trials, average of 2.4 accounts per player IF any of the 30 accounts BS is factual let alone 10 accounts - only refers to macroers people, no one else would ever dream of trying to keep up with that many skill trees. so this leaves with around 60614 actual players. My assumption is that it is more around the 80 thousand mark (refering to bloodline deal)" All other arguments have no relation to the actual topic. They are personal opinions of the games dynamics, and whether it deserves the number 1 position on a MMO forum, which rates its games by forum users ratings.
If you people don't get over this topic, which has been twisted and turned everywhich way it will become blander then it already is.
PS;
If the theory of the average gamer having two accounts on an MMO, wouldn't that reduce the "oh high and mighty" WoW player base from 5-6 million to 2.5-3 million. Would this matter in any way.... NO!
Please admin, lock the topic because it is no longer on topic. If they wish to argue the games dynamics, let them create their own topics.
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http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/104602
I was inspired greatly by this very post(atleast the first 3 pages or so before i gave up reading all the junk)
I'm sorry, I don't have anything to add except for alot of laughter and the fact that someone here didn't even bother to figure out what the 30k meant
(It's a floggin' worldrecord..)
EvE, yet again proves there is a place for Darwins theories.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Yeah, quite clearly. Everyone knows you can take a nap on top of that as well!
Just kidding. Before i start i'd like to mention a few things about myself as i've trudged through these 20 pages to catch up, admittedly skipping most of the flaming and misplaced arguments.
- I have played Eve for two and a half years, then took a 6 month break due to RL commitments.
- Hence i have a substantial amount of SP - just over 30mil in fact.
- I have never PvPed due to fear of losing my implants, however i have tried defending myself from pirates on numerous occasions when mining or hunting low sec and not being alert, and therefore getting my ass whipped. In fact, this reminds me of a lesson i learned quite late compared to most people. You should never attempt to venture around low sec systems without warp core stabilisers. For those of you that are unaware, these modules counter the enemy's attempt to stop you warping out of the area you are in. Simple? Yes, definately, but a perfect example of how knowledge in eve outranks skill points anyday.
- I have always been in a player corp since about three days into the game.
- I have been lucky in the people i met and befriended. One particular guy has been very good to me and has indeed helped me out a lot money-wise, but in all honesty i believe that has just slowed down my growth as a player. Sure i got into a battleship a lot quicker, but what good does that do? I still to this day can't hold my own in a PvP situation, and that's what i'd like to achieve most, however it has been a more recent goal.
To begin with i am dissappointed by the few Eve players on this forum that support the "if you don't like it, don't play it and don't post your problems with the game here" stance. As somebody has already said, everyone has a right to speak their mind and it is interesting to hear other people's viewpoints.Personally i'd like to straighten out other people's incorrect statements and try to get them to see Eve the way i do, or atleast try to enlighten them as to why so many thousands of people think it's the best MMO around.
Right, i'm just going to blurt out my thoughts before i lose them all - it's taken me days to read through all this!
Demonknight:
I believe you have given EVE a chance and really would like to see the appeal although your opening post seemed to say otherwise. Perhaps for you it's just one of those games you don't like, and no amount of trying to like it will help.
Personally i love EVE but one major gripe i used to have with it is that it can take hours to do very little in the game. Maybe it's that i'm the one who is slow, but many people have felt the same about this. Don't get me wrong, i still love the things i get done in that time, but i don't like to know i've mined for three hours when it feels like half an hour, therefore i'm "wasting" the hours of my day.
I have a story that may just open your eyes to how good there game is. Apologies if i'm completely missing the point but i'm knackered.
In my first month in EVE i wondered by Scolluzer, a well known market system, as i was going to buy a few ship modules. In local the CEO of a player-corp was announcing a race that was to take place in that region set up by him and his corp. It was for anyone.
The rules: shuttles only, only one racer from the same corp to partake.
The prize: 1st place - Thorax, a Gallente cruiser worth 5.5mil ; 2nd place - 3 mil isk ; 3rd place - 1 mil isk
The fee: nothing
Naturally i was excited - the race consisted of jumping 5 systems to a fixed location, then trying to find the other corpmate within that system. He could be in one of the 14 asteroid belts, 5 stations, 6 planets, 9 moons or at the sun. Yes, it was random.
Being one of the more noob characters in the race i reached the destination simply 30 seconds after the first guy because of inferior nav skills, but the beauty of this game was that SP had very little effect giving noobs more of a chance.
I tried the second station on the list - no luck. Then felt like trying the 5th, and to my surprise there he was - I won the cruiser!!
But it isn't the prize i'm bothered about, although that was different at the time! But rather the concept. Basically the mechanics of the game allow you to do something as simple as this, birthed by a bit of imagination, and the reaction is fantastic. It's so much more fun than it sounds,and everyone was dying to race again for the following few weeks.
Another example is that our corp were going to have our own little PvP tournament that sparked from me and a corpmate bragging about who's a better pilot - i hate to admit it but it was probably him haha - and because of the way the game works (corp mates can attack each other safely without concord, the police force, interrupting) you can do exactly that. I really wish we did now because it would have been awesome. So the point i guess is that the game is what you make it, and you really can do practically anything within the context of the game.
So the question i ask is how can you not like the game?
SPs matter, i'm not going to hide that fact. I also wouldn't like to be a beginner these days either - not for the fear of never being able to compete but rather that i would be so far behind the vets.
However what you must remember is that there is a balancing act - there are loads of noobs but sooner or later the vets get tired of the game and leave for that reason (seen it all, nothing's new) or the fact that they can't commit to the game anymore due to real-life issues.
I have to ask though, what is so great about a game like WoW where noobs can catch up all to easily? Surely there's nothing in it for the veteran players if it's that easy to challenge them.
You say eve is never going to be popular, but you are incorrect. It is a fact that EVE is extremely popular and is growing more and more by the minute. The skill system is a vital part of the game and is a key reason for people disliking it. But on the other hand it is important to why people do like it and there is enough of a skill vs. knowledge balance to make it work for the newer players. If you don't like the system then it's a shame, but i think if anything, EVE should be praised for attempting something different and furthermore for making it work.
I have to say though, that despite all this you are right that to some extent you won't catch up to the older players, and it's dissappointing to know you'd have loved it if you knew about the game at the time, but trust me - it's not too late, many vets go inactive like myself all the time which loses them a good portion of skilling time so you will eventually catch up.
Plus many vets i know were very slow to increase their learning skills making them get to where they are much slower than you could.
New characters these days get more starting SP and twice the attributes than in my day, and the advanced learning skills are available to you from the word go, whereas we had to wait till Cold War for them, which was just over a year ago!
And finally, due to the many people that PvP these days, they don't have the head of implants that you could have to speed up your skilling.
Sorry this went on so long. I banked up a LOT of things to say after all those pages of discussion and forgot most of them, and still have a lot more to say so i will do so later on - many things that may have been already touched upon but i am unaware of.
well first off, i have played EVE online, i played for almost 3 months maybe closer to 4, i was part of the ASCN alliance, with TOG. so let me stop you right there before you put your foot in your mouth.
eh...sorry too late. want any ketchup for that foot?
seconly and more importantly, DAYUMMM!! have alot on our mind I see! Id check if you missed anyting, but id probably drown in that sea of letters and go crossed eyed from so much reading.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
but lets not loose focus, Im sure its fun for you, I have my reasons why I do not like it, but I will save you the time of reading my reasons, I think you already lost enough minutes of your life reading Dmaiusonasi post that you wont get back. but he has valid reasons nonetheless for why its a good EVE, and know what? good for you, enjoy the game, I wish you the best, pvp, and mine to your hearts content. everyone likes what they like, and hey I wont stop you from liking it,
but dont come at me like a fanantical conversative zealot trying your best to convert me to your way of life lol. hey either way you made valid points, and I admire that, but its not going to make me wanna play the game any more, and is not going to convince me that the given reasons you stated are reasons for me to play. in the end play for yourself, and if people come under their own accord and enjoy it, then so be it, but dont flame or badger a person or insult them for sayng "i dont like this game and this is why" or makes a stab at using a silly remark to highlight what they dont like about a game. that in of its self is censorship. I wont censor you for liking EVE, in fact I respect the fact tha you took the whole 3 and half days to write that stuff for my amusement and give me a better perspective on its mechanics and how a person enjoys this game. its all good bub, do ya thing. I wont stop you. If you wish Ill state the reason why i dont like this game but i wont write it til you request it, so as to save myself and you some time. lol
oh in regards to those prior posts? im sorry im just naturally sarcastic and condesending. cant help it, just how i am.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.