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The level of WoW Bashing
Deathstrike2
Member UncommonPosts: 1,777
As I was sitting here reading a few posts, it occured to me that WoW Bashing is rampant here. It's hard to get through a thread without someone making some comparison to WoW and then explaining why their MMO is better. Of course there's a fair amount of posts also that just say WoW sucks. I've also noticed that these threads are not confined to just MMORPG.com. They're everywhere.
Now here's the strange thing....WoW has over 8 million players and it's apparently growing. That is a boat load of people. So what's the deal? Do these people not post on forums in support of the game, do they just ignore the WoW bashing, or are they bashing the game themselves while they're subscribed? I just don't understand why 99% of the WoW posts are negative towards the game, but the game itself continues to thrive and grow. My guess is that it's a bad case of MMO-envy on the basher's parts. They wish their game was as successful as WoW. Of course, that's just a guess.
Anywho, just for clarification, I don't play the game myself. I tried it for about six months, and had a lot of fun during that time. However, I decided to move on and see what else is out there. I have yet to find a game that is as easy to get into and fun to play at the same time.
Comments
WoW has 8 million players WORLDWIDE... 2 million in the US. People like to talk about how big the game is, when in all honesty its mabey 4 times larger then EQ at its peak (500,000 North american players). WoW is a skilless, numbed down game that my 10 year old daughter and her friend not only play, but do well at. Blizzard did a great job making a game that Bubbles the chimp could play hence the subscription numbers and the popularity.
Wink
Yep and thats why all those after something with a bit of a challenge and some meaning prefer other games.
WoW is ok for the Kids or MMORPG newbs but for the others well there are plenty of smaller fish in the sea.
WoW is no argument one of if not the biggest MMO out atm. However how blizard represents this number is a bit funny. Like many have said there are only 2 - 3 million NA players... I dont care how many asian players play... I dont particularly like asian grind fests so if they love it, it just leads me more away from it.
Also wow hasnt had any competition since release. There has yet to be one mainstream game that has come out. Vanguard, Warhammer, and Conan will be 3 mainstream games coming out this year, they will definitely have an impact on wow. How big... well that remains to be seen, but I have a feelign that 20 - 40% of the population is going to get siphoned off.
WoW isnt the best, its the best available atm. And thats about to change.
Its a mixture of a number of factors:
A.) Most gamers who haunt forums like this are veteran MMOGers, veteran MMOGers are much less likely to be a WOW fan than some random kid picked out of a crowd.
B.) As someone mentioned before, the majority of WOW subscribers are overseas, WOW does still have the most US subscribers of any MMORPG though.
C.) Because WOW is so popular, people have plenty of opportunities to talk about it. Every MMORPG out there has its own coterie of diehard defenders and bashers, most just don't get mentioned as often. Have a look in the AoC forums on this site, a fellow named Pantastic has been bashing the game every chance he gets simply because of a single developer quote that he interprets one way, and almost everyone else does in another.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Yes and no. WoW managed to latch onto many of the former EQ1 ubar raiders. These are certainly MMO vets, but they may have a very different outlook. Not only are they likely to have a different outlook, its an outlook quite likely to clash with *a lot* of other MMO vets.
Guys, I'm just not seeing it. Okay, so if the number is 2 million in NA, that's still 2 MILLION players. Still much much more than its competition.
Another thing I see is like the post above that says it's dumbed down for kids, and 10 year olds play the game. I'm sure there are 10 year olds playing, but you know what? I'm sure that there's even more adults. In the six months that I played, I met and teamed with hundreds of people who all spoke well, and were fairly educated. They were not ten year olds. The game may be simplified, but judging by the numbers, that's what the vast majority of players seem to want. You can't argue with success.
After seeing how divided the Vanguard community is, I hardly think the game will even be a blip on Blizzard's radar. I'm hoping that Conan will be good, and I plan on giving it a try. However, I have yet to see anything substantial coming from any new game that would lead me to believe that it will hurt WoW. In reality, it's probably the other way around. People leave WoW, try other games and find that WoW is simply better. With subscription rates on the rise, it's WoW that is putting the hurt on all these little MMOs. Don't believe me? Consider how much more populated other MMOs would be right now if there were no WoW to complete with.
Blizzard decided to take MMO gaming out of the hands of the hardcore gamer and deliver it to the masses. They accomplished this by greatly simplifying the game by dumbing down the features that previous MMO's had. (and adding a whole lot of slick and polish to the interface). You can't argue with the results, as mentioned, they have a lot of subscribers, no matter how you decide to count them.
But why the bitterness on forums like this one and others? Because MMO's are developed (or at least funded) by large corporations these days and now that WoW has set the bar (and established the road to financial success) many developers are tempted by the lure of easy money to follow their example.
This means going forward we're not seeing as many games with features such as FFA PvP, interesting crafting, sandbox type worlds and of course, new innovation. Some of us fear that we're going to be trapped in a never ending world of orcs/elves/dwarves and simplified game play. We want better, but feel WoW has set a course for the industry that isn't good for MMO gaming as a whole.
And of course, we're exaggerating...seems there are a number of new games that might just satisfy our need for diversity.. (AOC, WAR, and a host of others) but it was a long two years since WOW launched..and not much interesting has come out in that time. (Not Blizzards fault...just the timing of things I guess.
I think in the end, WoW will have been good for the MMO world, it brought lots of new players into the genre, and as they mature in their experience some of them will want more from their gaming experience.... and they'll come play the games we really prefer.
Except for FFA PvP.... still not seeing any games heading in this direction..... might be an idea who's time has come and went.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Simply put, more people play WoW because it's fun. You can get up on that high horse of yours and make claims that you're "smarter" for playing a game that makes you run back and get your corpse when you die or lose EXP but seems a LOT people consider that a waste of time.
I don't know about you but that sounds exactly opposite of smart to me. I am not a choir boy for WoW but when a LOT of people find a game fun perhaps the problem isn't them.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Yep and thats why all those after something with a bit of a challenge and some meaning prefer other games.
WoW is ok for the Kids or MMORPG newbs but for the others well there are plenty of smaller fish in the sea.
Well, dunno about you but I enjoyed WoW for 1.5 years and I doubt very much that 28 year old may qualify me as a kid. And its realy hard to believe that suddenly, for no apparent reason, 8 million "kids" started playing a game ... for no reason at all.You can bash all you want:
- you say WoW is dumb, I say WoW is quick to learn and simple to master
- you say WoW is for kids, I say WoW is for mature people whos time is valued and who have life (the real one, not imaginary) outside their computer
- you say WoW is skilless, I say if you got skills, you can "pwn" all those nerds who spent 90% of their real life farming highend dungeons
- you say your 10y old daughter pwns in this game, I say if your daughter kicks your ass in this game, that means you've got no skills and you only know how to gank in PvP
- you say Blizzard has done a great job at marketing, I say their game did its own marketing, no game will hold the audience because of the marketing (*cough* swg *cough*)
- you say WoW is 4 times larger then EQ1 at its peak and you doubt that qualifies as being "great", I say EQ1 was one of the first truly 3D MMORPGs that defined the whole MMORPG genre for years ahead.
Its funny how people keep bashing games that are extremely popular. I also dislike many popular games, ex: EQ1 (even though I spent 2 years there), L2 and CoH, for various reasons, but I cant deny that they are popular for those and other reasons. Just because one game doesnt fit someone's play style, doesnt mean it automaticaly doesnt fit everyone else play style. The thought that "I dont like this so it must suck" is selfish and immature. To all of you people who say "WoW sucks becuase I dont like its <insert feature>" - grow up and move on. There are plenty other games there that suck but require your immediate attention tille you lose your pulse, drop dead and no1 will remember who you are because you forgot to make friend in real life. Stop spending 10+ hours per day by your PC. Go outside. Meet some girls (yes, they do exist). Have fun.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
What kind of comment is this? I haven't bashed Vanguard. I simply posted my feelings on it. I'm still beta testing it! In fact, if you would do your homework before making baseless accusations like this, you would have read where I said that it wasn't a terrible game, it was just not the game that was hyped by the company and it's certainly not where it should be considering that it's gonig to be released for retail in 2 weeks. Am I wrong in saying this? I think not.
I would consider Chaos and griefing to be something like coming on the boards and attacking others personally, much like you just did in your post about me. I'll leave it at that.
ummm.. do your even realize that WoW makes you run back to your corpse? And yes you do lose exp points in WoW too.... you just bashed a game your trying to defend... now thats strange.
I agree on one thing, WoW is a skillless game for young people. Thats exactly what Blizzard had in mind, and they did it right. You can disagree, but there is no other MMO out there as easy as WoW is. Not everyone wants easy, only the youngsters.
And the game is no harder than any other MMORPG I have played. Honestly, get off your high horse.
Simply put, more people play WoW because it's fun. You can get up on that high horse of yours and make claims that you're "smarter" for playing a game that makes you run back and get your corpse when you die or lose EXP but seems a LOT people consider that a waste of time.
I don't know about you but that sounds exactly opposite of smart to me. I am not a choir boy for WoW but when a LOT of people find a game fun perhaps the problem isn't them.
The reason I don't play WoW is because i have a lot of friends that play and if you ask them what makes WoW so great or why they play it, the reason is "Because there's nothing else that's any good." So I ask them if they like it. They say "It's alright."
WoW came out during a period in video gaming history when there was hardly anything to choose from. DAoC was starting to get dated, EQ2 didn't have a good release, and was too graphics intensive, so by default people played WoW. Once you play a game like that for more than 6 months, you find it hard to give up all of your hard earned loot. Especially when there still is nothing new out there that is any good.
In 2007, I think we'll see the WoW subs from North America dramatically decrease due to AoC, WAR, PotBS, and LoTRO. Now that there are quality games coming out that are all very diverse and target various communities, and aren't trying to cater to the WoW players, I think people will branch out more. A lot of WoW's players in the US are first-time MMO players, and once they see other games coming out with good hype, they'll branch out from their first, and see what's out there.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Most WoW bashers want more complicated gameplay, so that sets up a dislike of WoW.
Now couple that with this...
I love Game X. In my mind no game is better. But according to the numbers, GameX isn't doing well. If I had problems with self-esteem, I might conclude that the world was saying I suck (because the world was saying my game sucks), neither of which is true. But I would be inclined to tear down WoW to try and boost my own self-worth.
Another more practical reason...I love GameX. But because WoW has cornered the market, GameX is going bankrupt. My favorite game is about to fold because of WoW's popularity. Under such circumstances I'd want to tear down WoW too.
Finally, there is the people who thrive on conflict, typically also known as griefers. Take something popular and slander it, not because you believe in that view, but because it will get an angry reaction. Just as a comedian likes to make others laugh, a griefer likes to make others hate.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Simply put, more people play WoW because it's fun. You can get up on that high horse of yours and make claims that you're "smarter" for playing a game that makes you run back and get your corpse when you die or lose EXP but seems a LOT people consider that a waste of time.
I don't know about you but that sounds exactly opposite of smart to me. I am not a choir boy for WoW but when a LOT of people find a game fun perhaps the problem isn't them.
The reason I don't play WoW is because i have a lot of friends that play and if you ask them what makes WoW so great or why they play it, the reason is "Because there's nothing else that's any good." So I ask them if they like it. They say "It's alright."
WoW came out during a period in video gaming history when there was hardly anything to choose from. DAoC was starting to get dated, EQ2 didn't have a good release, and was too graphics intensive, so by default people played WoW. Once you play a game like that for more than 6 months, you find it hard to give up all of your hard earned loot. Especially when there still is nothing new out there that is any good.
In 2007, I think we'll see the WoW subs from North America dramatically decrease due to AoC, WAR, PotBS, and LoTRO. Now that there are quality games coming out that are all very diverse and target various communities, and aren't trying to cater to the WoW players, I think people will branch out more. A lot of WoW's players in the US are first-time MMO players, and once they see other games coming out with good hype, they'll branch out from their first, and see what's out there. I believe you are being too pessimistic. According to your words, WoW is good becuase there is nothing better on the market. This might have been true with EQ1 back when it was one of very few MMORPG titles, but nowadays, there are many other MMORPGs (small and big) that could replace WoW - EQ2, DAOC, AO, CoH/AoV, FFXI, GW, L2 to name a few. There are also many more very small games (small in population) that could replace WoW. None of them are as popular as WOW, except perhaps L2 ( its numbers are hard to check since in China, a lot of subs are involved in inet cafe's, dont realy know how they count those subs). In any case, there is a fair amount of competition for WoW. And WoW has been around for 2 years now, so that would be enough time for people to get a "taste" of what WoW is.
I think WoW is very popular for many reasons, but one of the main reasons is - casual player friendliness. Especially in the west, people's time is very valuable. Many people (those that used to be kids spending 8+ hours daily playing EQ1) cannot afford to play games all day and night. They have jobs, family and other responcibilities. And WoW fits perfectly into their schedule. If you dont play more then 15-25 hours a week, you can play WoW for years. You are not rushed through, not forced to group, you can grind or quest or PvP whenever and however you want. This flexibility to present options is the real catch.
I used to play WoW casualy for over a year (on and off), but one day my RL schedule forced me to quit becuase I like to play different games so I could invest into WoW less then 10 hours a week. While paying a full subscribtion price, I dont think thats tangible for me. But for those that play one game only, WoW is a perfect getaway whenever they have an extra hour or two of free time.
You could be right about 2007 releases. If games continue with WoWs casual friendliness, then those games can becomes big competitors for WoW. Personaly I hope for WAR and AoC to give me a fresh taste of MMORPG, and perhaps G&H to introduce me to a completely new squadron based play style. Any game that REQUIRES you to spend more then 20-30 hours weekly will not become huge becuase people simply cannot afford to keep up with that schedule without seriously affecting their real life.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Idiots can't read well.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Idiots can't read well.
Don't be a gamist ( game prejudice or discrimination based on someones gaming preferences ).I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The amount of bashing is bigger than yesterday, lesser than tomorrow.
Raiding end-game is bound to such a progression, as a DoT spell if you want.
Many players feel a "shame" to complains about a "social endgame" such as raiding, so they transfer their hatred toward something else. Only a few dare to complains openly about raiding unfairness, peoples that come from strong communities in RL and that for some reason value a lot individuality are likely to bash raiding more...aka, some peoples coming from strong communities background in RL as I am, but that value a lot the NA individualism, they are more likely to bash raiding without shame. Communities are good, when they are built on strong roots, not when they are built at the expanse of individualism.
Despite all my actions, nobody can really question my community-friendly orientation, and I am not ashamed in anyway to say that raiding-enforcement destroy and harm the developpment of good communities. Raiding-enforcement is similar to communism on sooo many layers. It destroy individualism and self-efforts. Instead of having happy individuals who CHOOSE to join the community, you have peoples binded to them, often against their true desire. The biggest victims of such enforcement, are the communities and the guilds themselves, these who often defend and promote such bad design. Players would be HAPPY to raid and to developp their guild, if it was a CHOICE, something you don't enforce. Best raiders have to be raiders, but best groupers have to be groupers and best soloers should be soloers as well. A 22 hps item should be earnable only in solo, a 10 hps/member in the group should be earnable in group only, while a 5-9 hps/raider should be earnable in raids only. (numbers arranged for a game with groups of 5 persons, was initially thinked for groups of 6 and a starting 25 hps for the soloing item)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
For example, I have 5 roomates at my apartment. 4 out of the five play World of Warcraft. 3 out of the 4 haven't played any other MMORPG.
The other played Asheron's Call for years.
They aren't MMO-holics like... most of the people who post on these forums. Those that play WOW and use forums... use their guild forums, and the WOW forums.
1. WOW-ers don't care about other MMORPG's.
2. They have lives and other forums
3. This is mostly a North American site, meaning a ... lot of opinion (along with peer pressure.. ha IT's Cool to HATE the biggest MMO)
4. Because WOW was advertised so well, parents got there hands on it and figured it was a good game... giving it to their kids and probably never stopped their subscription.
5. Finally, because it has a lot of things to BASH
I think sir, that you miunderstood me. I was stating that IMO WoW is a simple, skilless game. This however all comes back to the TWO things, the HOLY GRAIL if you will. PvE vs PvP.
PvE - In WoW the end game raid encounters are world class. They require the efforts of many people, and for the most part the enocounters are well thought out and entertaining. That said, given time, I could teach a somewhat moldy pear how to beat PvE, computer controlled monsters. Learn wat makes them tic, learn the encounter and how to beat it, then its wash rinse repeat.
PvP - The PvP in WoW is currently terrible for a number of reasons, no im not going to try and list them all, my keyboard would fail from all the typing. What I can say, is that, at least for me, and my guild members, in OUR opionion Skill > gear. WoW is not setup that way. Each class has a killer class, and no matter how much gear you get, or how much skill you get, you either can't kill it, or its ALMOST impossible. Crowd controll is out of control, all those AoE CC's being cast in PvP battles, completely nerfs melee combat (unless you have a paladin with BoF). Class balance is non existant in WoW, classes are gods then nerfed to nothingness. Many other reaons why
I dont like the game. I suppose that in a perfect world (and DAoc was as close as ive ever seen (pre ToA)) I coukd PvP to my hearts content, and others could PvE and we could all exist in harmony.
I have a ton of freinds as well as my guild who are still playing WoW. Im not going to sit here and tell you that the game sucks, simply that I dont like it. And yes my daughter plays, no shes not in an end game raiding guild, but she has fun and does her own thing.
If you like the game, by all means play it. I don't care for it, so im beta testing Vanguard, while really waiting for WAR.
Im not tryin to flame neone, its not my intention. Just stating how I feel.
Wink
Its hard to fully explain my feelings on an internet forum as im sure your all aware.