What the hell is your point? If you go through my history I'm a fan of Vanguard, and would've probably kept playing if my friends woulda joined me. But you have no facts, you forget the whole point of games, HOW FUN IS IT?
The problem with Vanguard is people just can't have fun with bugs and performance problems. I played vanguard in beta, and I loved it, I saw it progress hugely up until release and then I didn't purchase the game.
The reason I'm playing WoW over Vanguard right now? It's fun. Who cares if the graphics are Cartoony. It's called style, its the same thing Vanguard has, a realistic style.
What would have you preferred? If World of Warcraft DIDNT look like Warcraft?
Warhammer is a CLONE of WoW?
Well Vanguard is a CLONE of EQ.
But seriously here, Warhammer is a much as a Clone of WoW as Jack Black is a clone of George Clooney, you're just not making any sense here.
Warhammer is based off of PvP first, THEN PvE. They're building the foundation UNDER the structure, as opposed to how WoW did it and built the structure then decided to throw a foundation in there too.
Warhammer is a clone of WoW in the sense of graphics then you say? Oh, but is someone forgetting Warhammer was around about 10 years earlier than Warcraft?
People like you are the reason people aren't playing Vanguard, you're trying to lie your way into getting people to play the game so it's sustained.
The only thing that speaks louder than words are actions, at this point SoE has to step it up and put up or shutup because this game needs some more work.
What it does NOT need is people like you doing what you're doing.
A lot of people call this MMO "hardcore", because you cannot get on for 2 hours a day after elementary school and make much progress. If you consider yourself a "hardcore" player, with time to dedicate, this game truly gives back for the time you put in.
Hardcore MMO player? Posh.
The only way I'd consider an MMO hardcore would be the inclusion of full blown player-run world, first person twitch combat, and boats.
Thank you all for your lovely opinions regarding my post. Mostly just the people with the serious posts. You especially boojiboy. Your help really said everything I wanted to say in three sentences.
Daedelus: I didnt mean to claim that VG was perfect, I was merely saying that it has laid a strong foundation to build upon. Surely VG has its issues, like every MMO. Despite VG's sorry release, it still has a expansive framework to work with. As for the SOE comment, they were the reason for VG's sorry release. I am aware that they had no part in development, but if they left the scheduling up to Sigil, perhaps Brad would have had the chance to make the game everything we were promised.
Vindicoth: Please read my post again...I dont think you read it correctly the first time. I clearly cited several facts about the game in every bullet. I agree with you that VG is make or break at this point. Hopefully SOE will be able to come through for us. As far as Warhammer coming first, what do MMO's have to do with Warhammer at all? I played about 8 years ago, and I sure didnt see the name Mythic on any of the boxes...
Call me a fanboy, call me a troll, call me whatever. True I only have 1 post...in fact i created an account jsut so I could write this one post, and probably wont post here again. I am just a VG player who is trying to prove that all this bashing is based on very temporary factors, and very fixable factors. I think this MMO has created a structure with depth, and endless playability options. If I can beat a game, its not fun. Vanguard has the potential to be, though its not right now, one of the most extensive games created in the past few years, and I think it will be a game that supports dedicated, long lasting players.
Flame on brothers! Flame on!
Faranox: I totally agree, but Darkfall isnt coming out anytime soon.
If you aren't part of the Vanguard community, you are seriously missing out. Not only is it the best MMO out right now, but the best MMO we have seen in a long time. Seriously, what is out now? WoW is a cartoon on a computer, and EQ, UO, and DAoC are just not the same anymore. What coming out soon? AoC looks ok, but the whole no targeting thing is very risky and the theme of the game looks like it only appeals to a certain niche. Warhammer is a WoW clone, plain and simple. Plenty of people on this forum take pride in how many aspects of VG they can point out that take away from the game, but is that really the way to look at things? I'll run through some cons first just for all you bandwagon haters.
Cons:
Performance - While the game is unoptimized, and bugs appear here and there, I see nothing wrong with the 40-50 constant fps I get with my 7900GTX 512mb card. This is a 'next gen' game and I am sorry if your hardware is not up to par with 'next gen' gaming. Bashing Vanguard because your video card sucks is almost as stupid as the guy who was bashing it because his download was taking too long. Not to mention, up until recently (with the whole Sigil giving it to SOE deal), patches were being issued every Wednesday, without fail. True, we STILL dont have helmet graphics, but if you play MMO's for helmet graphics then dont play this game.
Population - Many have also complained of low server population. There is no denying this. This can be mostly attributed to the terrible rep VG has been given (half given, half earned). It was a rough start, and many people were quick to yell "FAILURE!!! ITS A FAILURE OMG!!!". Brad made a big mistake breaking promises from the start, but it was hardly his fault anyways. Blame SOE if anyone. With all the trolls out there who seem to have more fun hating the game than playing it, VG is having a rough time gaining subscriptions and keeping them as well. As soon as people start realizing that most of these haters are just followers with no opinions of their own, population will increase.
Pros:
Graphics - Simply amazing. No other MMO can even try to claim they have better. While many of the graphics are not completed, what is in game is finely detailed. From character models to landscapes, this game has it all. Effects like Atmospheric Distortion create an environment that really stands out. This can be trouble for some people who do not have the power to handle graphics like these, but like I said, upgrade or miss out.
Something for Everyone - It is almost guaranteed that you will find a role to play in the world of Telon. If you like adventuring, like most, the variety of race/class combinations are sure to satisfy you. With 15 classes in game, you are sure to find a fighting style to fit your preference. If combat is not in your nature, choose crafting or diplomacy. Both of these gain you wealth and partnerships as you gain levels. Server play-style is also fantastic in this game. They made sure to create a world for everyone. While most of the servers are PvE, they also include Team PvP, and FFA PvP as well. These rules do not lie. PvE is strictly that, and FFA PvP is also what it claims to be -- FFA. Kill anyone, anywhere, anytime. I think many MMO's have failed to provide a decent no-safe-zone environment in the past, and if they did they were probably Korean grind - all - day games. The variety doesnt stop there. There are three different continents to choose from, also with their own housing and boat building styles. Oh yeah...did I mention there is boating and housing? Add that to the list. Also, there are already many UI mods to apply, to create an interface that maximizes your abilities for your class. As you can see, this game could be played many different ways, you just have to find the one that fits you.
Community - This is probably the thing that makes me love VG as much as I do. The people who play the game are great. If you are a WoW player, and are sick of wiping due to 10 yr old noobs who dont know anything about aggro control, VG may be a good switch for you. The community is full of adult level players, most of which who have played one or more MMO's in the past. I meet very few who are not serious about the game, and the kids who cant survive due to lack of skills dont last very long (and probably make up most of the trolls on this board ). A lot of people call this MMO "hardcore", because you cannot get on for 2 hours a day after elementary school and make much progress. If you consider yourself a "hardcore" player, with time to dedicate, this game truly gives back for the time you put in.
And so, for all of you people who say "I will never think of giving this game a chance because [insert troll name here] says it sucks LOL!!!11!" ; think again. I would hate to see this game go down, when it, even at this stage of the game, has SO much potential. Personally, I am loving every second of this game, and I await every patch with anticipation. Sorry for the novel, but im pretty bored at work and I think this board really needed a post to let the unaware know whats up instead of letting the trolls take over. To all you current VG players: Stick with it guys! I know its hard when everyone out here is flaming us, but remember the reason you play MMO's in the first place!
Very nice and well written Troll post
The one thing you might want to change is the wording of your Pro's. Unfortunately, your pro's are all opinions. Where you see fantastic graphics, others consider them sort of bland and lifeless. With the something for everyone, I remember someone posting their thoughts as they went through the buddy key trial and found that as each day went on they were forcing themselves to play. Others just find that what is there to be boring or lacking soul so it can't be something for everyone or everyone would be trying to play it. As for Community, once again its subjective. Look for definative Pros that are rock solid for a better post.
<snip>right now the servers do feel rather empty but I am sure that will change with time.
<snip>
Why do people keep saying that?! What MMO has ever increase population with time after a marginal or failed release? Eve is the only thing that comes to mind as having remotely increased numbers long term. If you think VG is that niche and has developers who care 1/32 as much as the Eve developers, you're kidding yourself. The only "population increase" in store for VG is when they finally get smart and merge the servers. But considering it is owned and developed by SOE now, I would expect them to do 2-3 to majorly cut subscribers first and then leave all the servers active (or, heck, add more!) anyway.
EDIT: I hate Eve and think it is an interactive screen saver. Just FYI so there isn't any confusion.
Why do people keep saying WAR is a WoW clone based on the art? Hate to break it to ya but Warhammer went with that style of art before most of you that bitch about it were born and long, long before Blizzard decided to use that style in WoW. If anything you should be saying WAR is going to be a DAoC clone since it's being made by the same company although none of us know yet what WAR is going to be exactly. But since this post took a shot at games the poster can't know anything about and then defended this pos called VG which I tried hard to like and played until this month I'll give my opinion of it.
VG is a poorly made gear grind game where the biggest inovation was giving us 4 sets of gear to grind for rather than 1 (which I actually enjoyed). Character customization is based on a few skill points throughout your characters career (which are also limited by class) that mean nothing compared to the gear you'll get them from at 50. The slogin for VG should have been Vanguard Saga of Class Clones, where everyone is the same! Talk about dumbing a game down, there is nothing in VG that allows a player to make any choice which will set him apart from everyone else of the same class. They did a good job of masking this fact with a lot of class/race combos to choose from but it takes very little time to see the truth.
Oh and the buffs, I can't forget those. They had to make microscopic icons for display because there are so many buffs in this games that you would need a dual monitor set up just for the icons if they were WoW sized. All I can say about a billion buffs is whoever had that idea is retarded and should never be allowed to make a decision greater than what to eat for dinner again.
Beyond that the big world feel is nothing but the same creatures in various scales with different names spread throughout a mostly empty game. If you explore a few days during your free month then you will have seen most everything. Not to mention the "vision" of a big world where travelling is part of the adventure is going fast, they have already added a portal system to try and entice the gamers which weren't looking for that (cough Bnet Kids cough). Add to that boats, horses, and eventually flying mounts and the big world will be easily traversed quickly so you can go from one dungeon to the next without incident.
In all honesty people should let this game die as an example of what not to do for future developers. VG is a flop pure and simple and while the couple thousand people still playing would love to have more people to play with chances of that are not good no matter what SOE does. As soon as more new MMO's launch VG will have even less of a chance of ever becoming anything worth playing and believe it or not all the promises of the past will never be realized by SOE devs unless the game is profitable enough to justify the cost. VG is a game to us but to them it is a business and I think a lot of people with high hopes for crappy games forget that on the other end of the server is a business man who doesn't give a shit if you ever ride dragon over Khal.
My point is we as gamers shouldn't support crap games if we ever want truly inovative and fun games to be developed. We have to break thier business models so that maybe one day those business men will figure out that fun sells games (SHOCKER)!
Curl: You seem to be awfully good at pointing out what is bad about VG. I mean, you took all that time out of your day to share with us how much you hate VG, and gave us plenty of details on why it sucks. Others seem to find this fun as well.
I dont want to criticize the community here at mmorpg.com, since I visit these board a good bit, but does anyone here agree that it is better to post meaningless "i hate this and that" threads, than to post a "this is what Vanguard should do differently", or "this is what they did right"?
Easy to call me a fanboy when all everyone else does is bash all the time. Anyone who says I only have half a brain for enjoying VG seems to have less of a brain for taking the easy way out and pointing out what everyone else is doing wrong.
Curl: You seem to be awfully good at pointing out what is bad about VG. I mean, you took all that time out of your day to share with us how much you hate VG, and gave us plenty of details on why it sucks. Others seem to find this fun as well.
I dont want to criticize the community here at mmorpg.com, since I visit these board a good bit, but does anyone here agree that it is better to post meaningless "i hate this and that" threads, than to post a "this is what Vanguard should do differently", or "this is what they did right"?
Easy to call me a fanboy when all everyone else does is bash all the time. Anyone who says I only have half a brain for enjoying VG seems to have less of a brain for taking the easy way out and pointing out what everyone else is doing wrong.
If you guys hate the game so much why do you troll this section of the board so much? I'm still enjoying the game, and once (if) the bigger bugs get fixed and the population increases some this will be a great game. Even though it largely feels like a single player game to me right now, it feels like a good single player game, and the quests seem to be a lot more thought out than any of the other recent MMOs I've tried playing (save maybe DDO, but that game was garbage regardless).
OP, first, I don't believe this is your first post on these forums, I think you created this account to avoid flaming....
Second, glad to hear you're enjoying the game.... but you don't really advance your cause by belittling other players by saying they aren't "man enough" to upgrade their hardware or that everyone who doesn't play VG is an elementary schooler who can't handle a hardcore game like VG. (my 14 year old son is probably far more hardcore than you, and certainly more than I am)
Anywho... I gave VG a 2 month trial...I wasn't having any fun so I moved on. I don't spend all of my time "bashing" VG. I will however state my own experiences (which are dated now i realize) and comment on areas I'd like to see improved, because I agree, VG could still be a decent game.
But no point to troll... you want to state VG's benefits.... do so, but leave out the smack talk and you'll go a lot further in sounding intelligent and advancing your cause.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's a shame so many people who have never played the game and never intend to play the game spend so much time out of thier day bashing those who do enjoy it.
OP, first, I don't believe this is your first post on these forums, I think you created this account to avoid flaming....
Second, glad to hear you're enjoying the game.... but you don't really advance your cause by belittling other players by saying they aren't "man enough" to upgrade their hardware or that everyone who doesn't play VG is an elementary schooler who can't handle a hardcore game like VG. (my 14 year old son is probably far more hardcore than you, and certainly more than I am)
Anywho... I gave VG a 2 month trial...I wasn't having any fun so I moved on. I don't spend all of my time "bashing" VG. I will however state my own experiences (which are dated now i realize) and comment on areas I'd like to see improved, because I agree, VG could still be a decent game.
But no point to troll... you want to state VG's benefits.... do so, but leave out the smack talk and you'll go a lot further in sounding intelligent and advancing your cause.
I am sorry you do not believe me. Getting flamed on MMO forums is not something I beat myself up over. In fact, I am happy so many people care enough to reply to my thread.
Also, I never claimed anyone who didnt have sufficient hardware to run VG was less "manly". I dont see the correlation between manliness and hardware. I simply stated that modern hardware was required to enjoy the VG experience, and your enjoyment may suffer without it. Also, I played WoW and I am not an elementary schooler so I was not saying that EVERYONE who plays is. Young people just seem to dominate WoW's population and I am interested in a more adult community. I'm sure your son would understand.
I dont recall any "smack talk" either. If you interpreted any of my posts as offensive, I apologize. Constructive suggestions are all I have intendedto offer to this community.
If you aren't part of the Vanguard community, you are seriously missing out. Not only is it the best MMO out right now, but the best MMO we have seen in a long time. Seriously, what is out now? WoW is a cartoon on a computer, and EQ, UO, and DAoC are just not the same anymore. What coming out soon? AoC looks ok, but the whole no targeting thing is very risky and the theme of the game looks like it only appeals to a certain niche. Warhammer is a WoW clone, plain and simple. Plenty of people on this forum take pride in how many aspects of VG they can point out that take away from the game, but is that really the way to look at things? I'll run through some cons first just for all you bandwagon haters.
Wow is a cartoon? Warhammer is a WOW clone? VG is the best MMO out? Sounds like Diplomatic trash-talking to me?
Would I like a game with more depth than LoTRs or WOW? Yes I would. Should I play VG just because it claimed it would have that depth? No.
A big world needs big lore and big content. Currently, no one has figured out a pattern of how to build a big huge world and actually populate it and make it interesting. If in the future Vanguard can figure out some way to produce the polish and shine of WOW but with the huge world of EQI post Velious then I will be all over it. I'm not immature but I would have to argue that WOW and LoTRs have more history and lore than Vanguard even though they are half it's size. They might be easy play but they also are a breathing world. Considering how good the lore for EQI was, I find it shocking how little I can tell you about Telon after playing to level 22. That turned me off faster than the performance issues and daily class nerfs.
Why do people keep saying WAR is a WoW clone based on the art?
If you look at the screenshots of WAR and compare it to a screenshot of WoW....well it's hard to tell which is which. I know nothing of the WAR lore so for me looking at WAR after being a previous WoW player it looks like they copied Wow and put another name on it. Hopefully the similarities end there though and someone actually comes out with new ideas.
Curl: You seem to be awfully good at pointing out what is bad about VG. I mean, you took all that time out of your day to share with us how much you hate VG, and gave us plenty of details on why it sucks. Others seem to find this fun as well.
I dont want to criticize the community here at mmorpg.com, since I visit these board a good bit, but does anyone here agree that it is better to post meaningless "i hate this and that" threads, than to post a "this is what Vanguard should do differently", or "this is what they did right"?
Easy to call me a fanboy when all everyone else does is bash all the time. Anyone who says I only have half a brain for enjoying VG seems to have less of a brain for taking the easy way out and pointing out what everyone else is doing wrong.
Then how about when you post about how great vanguard is you don't bash and "point out whats bad" about other games? If your game is so good then you wouldn't need to do that. And its foolish to think an mmo would gain significant amount of players after the disaster that was vanguards launch along with all the bad press it received since then. It will be lucky to maintain its current population.
Your game failed. Failed so bad that Sigil is no more and over half the employees are out of a job. Enjoy hanging out the the swg nge fanbois in your little world.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
If you aren't part of the Vanguard community, you are seriously missing out. Not only is it the best MMO out right now, but the best MMO we have seen in a long time. Seriously, what is out now? WoW is a cartoon on a computer, and EQ, UO, and DAoC are just not the same anymore. What coming out soon? AoC looks ok, but the whole no targeting thing is very risky and the theme of the game looks like it only appeals to a certain niche. Warhammer is a WoW clone, plain and simple. Plenty of people on this forum take pride in how many aspects of VG they can point out that take away from the game, but is that really the way to look at things? I'll run through some cons first just for all you bandwagon haters.
Cons:
Performance - While the game is unoptimized, and bugs appear here and there, I see nothing wrong with the 40-50 constant fps I get with my 7900GTX 512mb card. This is a 'next gen' game and I am sorry if your hardware is not up to par with 'next gen' gaming. Bashing Vanguard because your video card sucks is almost as stupid as the guy who was bashing it because his download was taking too long. Not to mention, up until recently (with the whole Sigil giving it to SOE deal), patches were being issued every Wednesday, without fail. True, we STILL dont have helmet graphics, but if you play MMO's for helmet graphics then dont play this game.
Population - Many have also complained of low server population. There is no denying this. This can be mostly attributed to the terrible rep VG has been given (half given, half earned). It was a rough start, and many people were quick to yell "FAILURE!!! ITS A FAILURE OMG!!!". Brad made a big mistake breaking promises from the start, but it was hardly his fault anyways. Blame SOE if anyone. With all the trolls out there who seem to have more fun hating the game than playing it, VG is having a rough time gaining subscriptions and keeping them as well. As soon as people start realizing that most of these haters are just followers with no opinions of their own, population will increase.
Pros:
Graphics - Simply amazing. No other MMO can even try to claim they have better. While many of the graphics are not completed, what is in game is finely detailed. From character models to landscapes, this game has it all. Effects like Atmospheric Distortion create an environment that really stands out. This can be trouble for some people who do not have the power to handle graphics like these, but like I said, upgrade or miss out.
Something for Everyone - It is almost guaranteed that you will find a role to play in the world of Telon. If you like adventuring, like most, the variety of race/class combinations are sure to satisfy you. With 15 classes in game, you are sure to find a fighting style to fit your preference. If combat is not in your nature, choose crafting or diplomacy. Both of these gain you wealth and partnerships as you gain levels. Server play-style is also fantastic in this game. They made sure to create a world for everyone. While most of the servers are PvE, they also include Team PvP, and FFA PvP as well. These rules do not lie. PvE is strictly that, and FFA PvP is also what it claims to be -- FFA. Kill anyone, anywhere, anytime. I think many MMO's have failed to provide a decent no-safe-zone environment in the past, and if they did they were probably Korean grind - all - day games. The variety doesnt stop there. There are three different continents to choose from, also with their own housing and boat building styles. Oh yeah...did I mention there is boating and housing? Add that to the list. Also, there are already many UI mods to apply, to create an interface that maximizes your abilities for your class. As you can see, this game could be played many different ways, you just have to find the one that fits you.
Community - This is probably the thing that makes me love VG as much as I do. The people who play the game are great. If you are a WoW player, and are sick of wiping due to 10 yr old noobs who dont know anything about aggro control, VG may be a good switch for you. The community is full of adult level players, most of which who have played one or more MMO's in the past. I meet very few who are not serious about the game, and the kids who cant survive due to lack of skills dont last very long (and probably make up most of the trolls on this board ). A lot of people call this MMO "hardcore", because you cannot get on for 2 hours a day after elementary school and make much progress. If you consider yourself a "hardcore" player, with time to dedicate, this game truly gives back for the time you put in.
And so, for all of you people who say "I will never think of giving this game a chance because [insert troll name here] says it sucks LOL!!!11!" ; think again. I would hate to see this game go down, when it, even at this stage of the game, has SO much potential. Personally, I am loving every second of this game, and I await every patch with anticipation. Sorry for the novel, but im pretty bored at work and I think this board really needed a post to let the unaware know whats up instead of letting the trolls take over. To all you current VG players: Stick with it guys! I know its hard when everyone out here is flaming us, but remember the reason you play MMO's in the first place!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
In many respects I agree with you. I actually do not feel sorry for them, but I do believe they are missing out. If I were to base this on my experience in BETA and at release, I would think people would be wise to avoid vanguard like they avoid snakes.
However, I am happy I resubscribed and the game is only getting better.
Some of you VG players scare me, the religious way you look at your game. Unless its SoE employees spamming . Btw, "choose crafting or diplomacy?" Just two more elements of grinding to keep players busy and playing/paying.
Can you name an MMO that doesn't have time sinks? How do you expect a game to keep people paying and playing if they don't have things to do.
Time sinks are the backbone of every MMO, and everything you do in an MMO is a time sink. One kind of grind or another.
It should be an MMO law that whenever someone makes a comment about grinding and time sinks in MMO's that they be pelted with racket balls by anyone that witnessed the offense.
Well I for one am glad you are enjoying yourself ,But be warned all the effort all the things you accomplish in your next gen "Hardcore Game" will most likly change and change real soon. SOE is famous for complete game changes when they dont see the subscriber numbers they think they should be getting. If I were you I would stop now before you get disapponted in the future.
Comments
I played Ryzom for a couple months. It's more like an MMOJOB then an MMORPG.
Didn't seem to have much class diversity. It's also a completely dif. game then VG ;even the genre isn't the same.
SoR is a cool game, and I wish that VG had a skill based system like SoR uses, but It wasn't for me.
Wish Darkfall would release.
WoW looks like a cartoon - AHH STAY AWAY!
Warhammer is a clone of WoW - AHHH!!
EQ UO & DAoC are old - AHH STAY AWAY!
What the hell is your point? If you go through my history I'm a fan of Vanguard, and would've probably kept playing if my friends woulda joined me. But you have no facts, you forget the whole point of games, HOW FUN IS IT?
The problem with Vanguard is people just can't have fun with bugs and performance problems. I played vanguard in beta, and I loved it, I saw it progress hugely up until release and then I didn't purchase the game.
The reason I'm playing WoW over Vanguard right now? It's fun. Who cares if the graphics are Cartoony. It's called style, its the same thing Vanguard has, a realistic style.
What would have you preferred? If World of Warcraft DIDNT look like Warcraft?
Warhammer is a CLONE of WoW?
Well Vanguard is a CLONE of EQ.
But seriously here, Warhammer is a much as a Clone of WoW as Jack Black is a clone of George Clooney, you're just not making any sense here.
Warhammer is based off of PvP first, THEN PvE. They're building the foundation UNDER the structure, as opposed to how WoW did it and built the structure then decided to throw a foundation in there too.
Warhammer is a clone of WoW in the sense of graphics then you say? Oh, but is someone forgetting Warhammer was around about 10 years earlier than Warcraft?
People like you are the reason people aren't playing Vanguard, you're trying to lie your way into getting people to play the game so it's sustained.
The only thing that speaks louder than words are actions, at this point SoE has to step it up and put up or shutup because this game needs some more work.
What it does NOT need is people like you doing what you're doing.
The only way I'd consider an MMO hardcore would be the inclusion of full blown player-run world, first person twitch combat, and boats.
Daedelus: I didnt mean to claim that VG was perfect, I was merely saying that it has laid a strong foundation to build upon. Surely VG has its issues, like every MMO. Despite VG's sorry release, it still has a expansive framework to work with. As for the SOE comment, they were the reason for VG's sorry release. I am aware that they had no part in development, but if they left the scheduling up to Sigil, perhaps Brad would have had the chance to make the game everything we were promised.
Vindicoth: Please read my post again...I dont think you read it correctly the first time. I clearly cited several facts about the game in every bullet. I agree with you that VG is make or break at this point. Hopefully SOE will be able to come through for us. As far as Warhammer coming first, what do MMO's have to do with Warhammer at all? I played about 8 years ago, and I sure didnt see the name Mythic on any of the boxes...
Call me a fanboy, call me a troll, call me whatever. True I only have 1 post...in fact i created an account jsut so I could write this one post, and probably wont post here again. I am just a VG player who is trying to prove that all this bashing is based on very temporary factors, and very fixable factors. I think this MMO has created a structure with depth, and endless playability options. If I can beat a game, its not fun. Vanguard has the potential to be, though its not right now, one of the most extensive games created in the past few years, and I think it will be a game that supports dedicated, long lasting players.
Flame on brothers! Flame on!
Faranox: I totally agree, but Darkfall isnt coming out anytime soon.
Very nice and well written Troll post
The one thing you might want to change is the wording of your Pro's. Unfortunately, your pro's are all opinions. Where you see fantastic graphics, others consider them sort of bland and lifeless. With the something for everyone, I remember someone posting their thoughts as they went through the buddy key trial and found that as each day went on they were forcing themselves to play. Others just find that what is there to be boring or lacking soul so it can't be something for everyone or everyone would be trying to play it. As for Community, once again its subjective. Look for definative Pros that are rock solid for a better post.
But all in all, good post.
Why do people keep saying that?! What MMO has ever increase population with time after a marginal or failed release? Eve is the only thing that comes to mind as having remotely increased numbers long term. If you think VG is that niche and has developers who care 1/32 as much as the Eve developers, you're kidding yourself. The only "population increase" in store for VG is when they finally get smart and merge the servers. But considering it is owned and developed by SOE now, I would expect them to do 2-3 to majorly cut subscribers first and then leave all the servers active (or, heck, add more!) anyway.
EDIT: I hate Eve and think it is an interactive screen saver. Just FYI so there isn't any confusion.
Why do people keep saying WAR is a WoW clone based on the art? Hate to break it to ya but Warhammer went with that style of art before most of you that bitch about it were born and long, long before Blizzard decided to use that style in WoW. If anything you should be saying WAR is going to be a DAoC clone since it's being made by the same company although none of us know yet what WAR is going to be exactly. But since this post took a shot at games the poster can't know anything about and then defended this pos called VG which I tried hard to like and played until this month I'll give my opinion of it.
VG is a poorly made gear grind game where the biggest inovation was giving us 4 sets of gear to grind for rather than 1 (which I actually enjoyed). Character customization is based on a few skill points throughout your characters career (which are also limited by class) that mean nothing compared to the gear you'll get them from at 50. The slogin for VG should have been Vanguard Saga of Class Clones, where everyone is the same! Talk about dumbing a game down, there is nothing in VG that allows a player to make any choice which will set him apart from everyone else of the same class. They did a good job of masking this fact with a lot of class/race combos to choose from but it takes very little time to see the truth.
Oh and the buffs, I can't forget those. They had to make microscopic icons for display because there are so many buffs in this games that you would need a dual monitor set up just for the icons if they were WoW sized. All I can say about a billion buffs is whoever had that idea is retarded and should never be allowed to make a decision greater than what to eat for dinner again.
Beyond that the big world feel is nothing but the same creatures in various scales with different names spread throughout a mostly empty game. If you explore a few days during your free month then you will have seen most everything. Not to mention the "vision" of a big world where travelling is part of the adventure is going fast, they have already added a portal system to try and entice the gamers which weren't looking for that (cough Bnet Kids cough). Add to that boats, horses, and eventually flying mounts and the big world will be easily traversed quickly so you can go from one dungeon to the next without incident.
In all honesty people should let this game die as an example of what not to do for future developers. VG is a flop pure and simple and while the couple thousand people still playing would love to have more people to play with chances of that are not good no matter what SOE does. As soon as more new MMO's launch VG will have even less of a chance of ever becoming anything worth playing and believe it or not all the promises of the past will never be realized by SOE devs unless the game is profitable enough to justify the cost. VG is a game to us but to them it is a business and I think a lot of people with high hopes for crappy games forget that on the other end of the server is a business man who doesn't give a shit if you ever ride dragon over Khal.
My point is we as gamers shouldn't support crap games if we ever want truly inovative and fun games to be developed. We have to break thier business models so that maybe one day those business men will figure out that fun sells games (SHOCKER)!
Stop whining and login so I can kill you!
I dont want to criticize the community here at mmorpg.com, since I visit these board a good bit, but does anyone here agree that it is better to post meaningless "i hate this and that" threads, than to post a "this is what Vanguard should do differently", or "this is what they did right"?
Easy to call me a fanboy when all everyone else does is bash all the time. Anyone who says I only have half a brain for enjoying VG seems to have less of a brain for taking the easy way out and pointing out what everyone else is doing wrong.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Second, glad to hear you're enjoying the game.... but you don't really advance your cause by belittling other players by saying they aren't "man enough" to upgrade their hardware or that everyone who doesn't play VG is an elementary schooler who can't handle a hardcore game like VG. (my 14 year old son is probably far more hardcore than you, and certainly more than I am)
Anywho... I gave VG a 2 month trial...I wasn't having any fun so I moved on. I don't spend all of my time "bashing" VG. I will however state my own experiences (which are dated now i realize) and comment on areas I'd like to see improved, because I agree, VG could still be a decent game.
But no point to troll... you want to state VG's benefits.... do so, but leave out the smack talk and you'll go a lot further in sounding intelligent and advancing your cause.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am sorry you do not believe me. Getting flamed on MMO forums is not something I beat myself up over. In fact, I am happy so many people care enough to reply to my thread.
Also, I never claimed anyone who didnt have sufficient hardware to run VG was less "manly". I dont see the correlation between manliness and hardware. I simply stated that modern hardware was required to enjoy the VG experience, and your enjoyment may suffer without it. Also, I played WoW and I am not an elementary schooler so I was not saying that EVERYONE who plays is. Young people just seem to dominate WoW's population and I am interested in a more adult community. I'm sure your son would understand.
I dont recall any "smack talk" either. If you interpreted any of my posts as offensive, I apologize. Constructive suggestions are all I have intendedto offer to this community.
I will try this game!!!
Now just send me a buddy key to mattyfiles@gmail.com or point the way to the free trial!
thanks
man the game is sooo good they just fired half of the DEV team, I guess u are right.
You say that you weren't smack talking?
Wow is a cartoon? Warhammer is a WOW clone? VG is the best MMO out? Sounds like Diplomatic trash-talking to me?
Would I like a game with more depth than LoTRs or WOW? Yes I would. Should I play VG just because it claimed it would have that depth? No.
A big world needs big lore and big content. Currently, no one has figured out a pattern of how to build a big huge world and actually populate it and make it interesting. If in the future Vanguard can figure out some way to produce the polish and shine of WOW but with the huge world of EQI post Velious then I will be all over it. I'm not immature but I would have to argue that WOW and LoTRs have more history and lore than Vanguard even though they are half it's size. They might be easy play but they also are a breathing world. Considering how good the lore for EQI was, I find it shocking how little I can tell you about Telon after playing to level 22. That turned me off faster than the performance issues and daily class nerfs.
Your game failed. Failed so bad that Sigil is no more and over half the employees are out of a job. Enjoy hanging out the the swg nge fanbois in your little world.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
In many respects I agree with you. I actually do not feel sorry for them, but I do believe they are missing out. If I were to base this on my experience in BETA and at release, I would think people would be wise to avoid vanguard like they avoid snakes.
However, I am happy I resubscribed and the game is only getting better.
Some of you VG players scare me, the religious way you look at your game.
Unless its SoE employees spamming .
Btw, "choose crafting or diplomacy?"
Just two more elements of grinding to keep players busy and playing/paying.
Can you name an MMO that doesn't have time sinks? How do you expect a game to keep people paying and playing if they don't have things to do.
Time sinks are the backbone of every MMO, and everything you do in an MMO is a time sink. One kind of grind or another.
It should be an MMO law that whenever someone makes a comment about grinding and time sinks in MMO's that they be pelted with racket balls by anyone that witnessed the offense.
Wish Darkfall would release.