Endgame for non-PvPers?

Anofalye

It is 20% of the high level content that is PvE-centric.

 

Can raiding be avoided or the devs are making it in a poor-Gaheris way?

 

Is this 20% enought to acquire everything?  Or it has access only to 20% of the reward?  Or is it 20% of the paths that have access to all the rewards which impact PvE combats?  I don't mind if I have a longsword + 20, while a PvPer has a longsword +20 of cutting edge, as long as cutting edge is only affecting PvP.  But if the PvPers has a longsword +21, then I won't waste time in such a game...I mean, on the PvE combats, can PvP be avoided to acquire everything which make you the best at PvE combat?  Can raiding be avoided as well?

 

PS: PvE players are attracted by the Warhammer franchise...a LOT.  The RPG experience, was a PvE experience...not to mention that most PvP experiences with Warhammer doesn't depend on fast reflexes...This is a good thing.  Just wondering if WAR will capitalize on this...or just waste this opportunity likes DAoC?

Elgareth

If you don't want to PvP A LOT, don't play WAR.

That's what the Devs said, that's what they're heading for.



The PvE Part will, in conclusion, exist so when you're feeling tired, and just want to do something meaningful without the thrill of PvP, you can do it.

There are only 6 high end dungeons planned for release AFAIK (1 for each race).

The Best Loot will come from the RvR Campaign, when sacking the enemy city, same with the best Crafting Materials.

(Though they won't be so insanely stronger than other stuff, to prevent a Gear-Centric PvP)



To compare the 6 Dungeons with another Number: Mythic is planning for 150+ different PvP Scenarios.



So really don't expect anything great from the Endgame-PvE Part. Or better said: Don't expect anything large in the Endgame PvE Part, because the small things Mythic will add for Endgame PvE, will be great anyway, but there won't be much of it.



To repeat the first rule of WAR: If you don't like PvP, don't play WAR. If do like PvP however, you'll have an absolute Blast playing WAR.

Anofalye

Originally posted by Elgareth

If you don't want to PvP A LOT, don't play WAR.

That's what the Devs said, that's what they're heading for.



The PvE Part will, in conclusion, exist so when you're feeling tired, and just want to do something meaningful without the thrill of PvP, you can do it.

There are only 6 high end dungeons planned for release AFAIK (1 for each race).

The Best Loot will come from the RvR Campaign, when sacking the enemy city, same with the best Crafting Materials.

(Though they won't be so insanely stronger than other stuff, to prevent a Gear-Centric PvP)



To compare the 6 Dungeons with another Number: Mythic is planning for 150+ different PvP Scenarios.



So really don't expect anything great from the Endgame-PvE Part. Or better said: Don't expect anything large in the Endgame PvE Part, because the small things Mythic will add for Endgame PvE, will be great anyway, but there won't be much of it.



To repeat the first rule of WAR: If you don't like PvP, don't play WAR. If do like PvP however, you'll have an absolute Blast playing WAR.

Then I guess I will just put it aside, which is a shame.

 

I am a Warhammer fan after all.  And as most fans of the Warhammer franchise, I am not PvP-realtime driven, nor was I used to in this franchise.

 

And as I said, as long as PvE-acquired loot is the best for PvE combat, doesn't care if I miss on bleeding edges PvP procs that work only against players.  As long as I could do it, no matter how small % of the content, and master it, totally, without PvP or raiding.

 

As to judging if 5%, 15%, 20% of the content is enough for me, that is something a dev should let me decide by myself...as long as the path to the end, ultimate PvE ends, is completely open and I wouldn't feel shafted by PvPers.

 

Again, if this is what they are doing, I won't buy WAR, and this is a shame.  It is not like I am asking for much.  I am only asking that the tiny PvE part lead to total and complete mastery of PvE combats without the needs of raiding or PvPing...doesn't care if I miss whatever PvP extra bonus you can only get while PvPing...as long as it has only impacts in PvP.

Oh well, next game.

AzureSkies

I can see where you're coming from, but at least they've been honest about the direction the game is heading.



Unlike WoW devs and their skillful bait and switch.

Elgareth

Yeah, and don't forget:

WAR won't be about the loot. Not in PvE, not in PvP. It'll be about the skill, if you can play your class, and of course, about the fun.

mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/pp_Quests_bitrate.html

Watch this Podcast. It's solely about the PvE Quests (even though some of the PvE Quests will naturally be in RvR Areas as well).

Then tell me that you probably won't have fun playing WAR as a pure PvE player Maybe not forever, but at least a Month or two, until you finished the PvE Parts, and in that case, it was well worth the investment of money IMO.

(Not to forget: You'll be gently introduced to WAR PvP/RvR during play, you might find that you actually like it)



But for the Long-Term, WAR will be a PvP/RvR Game. And I highly respect the Devs for stating that this clearly, and not some marketing Blah Blah about "WAR will have stuff for everyone" etc.

They clearly state: "Yes, WAR will have PvE too, but the absolute Focus from second one of designing the Game was PvP/RvR".

Ainshent

   When I heard WAR was coming I was immediately stoked.  After further investigation my excitement turned to disapointment.  Although I don't dislike PvP I do truely enjoy the PvE game.  I think the option is what is important to me...sometimes I feel like PvP sometimes I feel like PvE (More so the later.)  Meh....Lots of games coming out in the near future that seem to cater to both sides.  It's ashame WAR isn't one of them.  Can't help but appreciate the honesty of the company in stating that this is a PvP centric game though.

Drgonzothx

Not alot has been released about the PVE endgame yet so its to early to tell.  Obviously there is going to be a strong pvp elemental to this game, but it seems to me that they are taking a fairly revoulionary approach to PVE .  In fact this months podcast is on pve

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/pp_Quests_bitrate.html

 

I guess it doesn't answer your specific question, but well it sort of does, because supposedly WAR isn't about the loot.  There doesn't seem like there will be a significant  difference stat wise in items, be them acquired in RVR or PVE.  The podcast also shows that they are putting in significant time coming up with a PVE system that will be fun and not just pointless questing.

 EDIT: someone got the podcast before I did. 

Publish6246

The only problem i've had with PVP based games is you get little elitest kiddies going round corpse camping and insulting everyone, just ruiend the game for me. The min i see any of that i just quit the game, only game i never saw it in was SWG.

iCeh

Pfft, put off a game by kids? Make friends and gank them back, or, logout grab a cuppa log back in and they'll be gone.



It's only a game, and personally if I'm playing a multiplayer game, I'd much prefer to play against humans rather than a computer. Which is why I'm looking forward to WAR, a game with the nonsense taken out (according to Paul and the latest podcast).



Don't be put off by the fact that you're fighting real players, it's a lot more challenging, and rewarding when you learn to compete against people.



Also, I'd like to point out that this game boasts no actual "end game"... and I'll never forget that either!

Grayh

I have a feeling the PvE in this game is going to be really top notch, there just won't be a whole lot of the content.  They seem to be putting more thought into their PVE than most PVE games do. 



That said, this is an RVR game made by Mythic.  Its going to be quite a bit different than other MMO's.  When I first played DAoC, I was coming from EQ and all I wanted to do was PVE.  Their implementation of RVR really turned me on to the whole concept.  While traditional PVP,  killing others just for the hell of it never appealed to me... Fighting on a team against another realm was just so much fun. 



If you love the Warhammer world, I'd suggest you still give it a try.  You may be pleasantly surprised.



I'd actually venture a guess that a PvE player would have a more enjoyable time playing WAR than one of those hardcore PVP players who love FFA PVP.

tapeworm00

You should just wait and see how it is. Because if the focus is on PvP, that doesn't necessarily means PvE will be a load of crap. Look at the questing podcast someone recently posted (and which is included in the newsletter). Maybe it'll get your hopes back up. Mythic knows their PvE, and having EA behind it, it won't probably just give up the huge PvE-centric crowd. It'll give everyone something to do, but if you enjoy PvP, then you'll probably be in bliss when the time comes; and I repeat, that doesn't mean the PvE is just tossed aside.

StuntyCrusha

Originally posted by Publish6246

The only problem i've had with PVP based games is you get little elitest kiddies going round corpse camping and insulting everyone, just ruiend the game for me. The min i see any of that i just quit the game, only game i never saw it in was SWG.

It's worth noting that corpse camping won't be possible due to GY respawning (tho there are questions being asked about GY camping but I'm sure Mythic will address the issue) and since there won't be crossfaction communication there's no way for anyone to "OMG I PWND J00 NUBZOR" you (outside of emotes).  Course, even if there was, anyone taking the time to send a taunt your way after killing you runs the risk of being ganked from behind. 

Bama1267

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by Publish6246

The only problem i've had with PVP based games is you get little elitest kiddies going round corpse camping and insulting everyone, just ruiend the game for me. The min i see any of that i just quit the game, only game i never saw it in was SWG.

SWG was just as bad with it's TEF gank squads.

The insults maybe ....the corpse camping, no.

Kyleran

Originally posted by Ainshent   Meh....Lots of games coming out in the near future that seem to cater to both sides.  It's ashame WAR isn't one of them. 

And they will all fail in their attempts to balance the game towards both sides.  It just can't be done.... what works well in PVE causes issues in PVP and vice versa.....



That's why Mythic took the approach to design the game towards Pvp... (unlike most other games who just throw it in as an afterthought).... it makes for a better PvP game..... 



They'll still be some PVE...but I'm thinking another game might be a better choice for those looking for a deep PVE experience....

disposition

Are you kidding me? SWG's GCW was amazing. On the server I was on, the small towns would turn into huge battles as Imperial/Rebel forces would battle back and forth for hours. It was never for anything more than bragging rights on the server, and it was never so obscene or so large that it was unwieldy. Usually it consisted of decently sized skirmishes. When one side recaptured a town, it was actual work -- they could actually use vendors and cantinas -- it showed actually prowess in battle, and paid better than any pissant of a grind title. You were recognized on the forums, and feared and/or respected throughout the world by up-to-date players.

Parsifal57

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by Anofalye

Originally posted by Elgareth

If you don't want to PvP A LOT, don't play WAR.

That's what the Devs said, that's what they're heading for.



The PvE Part will, in conclusion, exist so when you're feeling tired, and just want to do something meaningful without the thrill of PvP, you can do it.

There are only 6 high end dungeons planned for release AFAIK (1 for each race).

The Best Loot will come from the RvR Campaign, when sacking the enemy city, same with the best Crafting Materials.

(Though they won't be so insanely stronger than other stuff, to prevent a Gear-Centric PvP)



To compare the 6 Dungeons with another Number: Mythic is planning for 150+ different PvP Scenarios.



So really don't expect anything great from the Endgame-PvE Part. Or better said: Don't expect anything large in the Endgame PvE Part, because the small things Mythic will add for Endgame PvE, will be great anyway, but there won't be much of it.



To repeat the first rule of WAR: If you don't like PvP, don't play WAR. If do like PvP however, you'll have an absolute Blast playing WAR.

Then I guess I will just put it aside, which is a shame.

 

I am a Warhammer fan after all.  And as most fans of the Warhammer franchise, I am not PvP-realtime driven, nor was I used to in this franchise.

 

And as I said, as long as PvE-acquired loot is the best for PvE combat, doesn't care if I miss on bleeding edges PvP procs that work only against players.  As long as I could do it, no matter how small % of the content, and master it, totally, without PvP or raiding.

 

As to judging if 5%, 15%, 20% of the content is enough for me, that is something a dev should let me decide by myself...as long as the path to the end, ultimate PvE ends, is completely open and I wouldn't feel shafted by PvPers.

 

Again, if this is what they are doing, I won't buy WAR, and this is a shame.  It is not like I am asking for much.  I am only asking that the tiny PvE part lead to total and complete mastery of PvE combats without the needs of raiding or PvPing...doesn't care if I miss whatever PvP extra bonus you can only get while PvPing...as long as it has only impacts in PvP.

Oh well, next game.

How can you say that most fans of the Warhammer franchise sre not PvP driven. Most Warhammer fans play the tabletop battles WHFB or WH40k which involves PvP, The WHRP crowd is in the minority. What would the point be in taking an IP that is fantastic for RvR/PvP and then making it focus on bashing npc's with no inteligence.

  I agree, what is the warhammer table top game? , its PvP albeit a choice of who you play against. The PvE part of the game looks pretty well developed too, I remember a comment by Paul early days that you would be able to level by either PvE or PvP or a mixture of both.



Bottom line however this game is RvR centric so expect more focus on PvP and don't expect an item centric game like WoW, i'd expect weapons armor to be handled similar to Daoc.



I'm looking forward to WAR and hope its as much fun as Daoc was for the first couple of years.

Ainshent

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Ainshent   Meh....Lots of games coming out in the near future that seem to cater to both sides.  It's ashame WAR isn't one of them. 

And they will all fail in their attempts to balance the game towards both sides.  It just can't be done.... what works well in PVE causes issues in PVP and vice versa.....



That's why Mythic took the approach to design the game towards Pvp... (unlike most other games who just throw it in as an afterthought).... it makes for a better PvP game..... 



They'll still be some PVE...but I'm thinking another game might be a better choice for those looking for a deep PVE experience....

 

  A fair statement.  It seems all the games I have played that tried to integrate both were subject to a constant nerf bat beating.  Maybe I'm just stuck with multiple subscriptions.  Time will tell.    

kraiden

WAIT!

Dont leave we need you!



Heres what you can do, while we are all off running around killing the opposition, knee deep in blood and gore.

You can run around and farm NPC monsters and do quest to gain money so you can craft weapons and armor to upgrade our towns and outpost guards!

Its an RvR game, not a pvp game.  everthing you do go towards the WAR... not just the skirmish.

Alienovrlord

The Warhammer is a PvP game, regardless of everything else that developed from it, the fundamental basis of it is gamers in direect conflict.  It would be hard to imagine a Warhammer MMORPG that didn't emphsize PvP. 

But Mythic certainly doesn't seem to be ignoring the PvE-style of play.  After listening to the quest types in the most recent pod-casts (which others have already linked) I have to say that the PvE content of this game sounds very well-developed with some real innovations to it.

I'm particularly excited about the close connection between the game story and quests.   No more quest lines ending in hanging story arcs that don't have a resolution.   

Then there's the Public Quests and being able to take part in large PvE battles with fellow players against tough NPC bosses WITHOUT going through 5 hours of raiding trash mobs.

Not to mentioned actual, tangible rewards for exploring the world, rather than chump-change XP or fancy titles. 

As people have already pointed out, you can reach the level cap in the game only through PvE.  You might not be leveling in the most efficient way, but if the quests are engaging enough who's going to care?  

Originally posted by kraiden Heres what you can do, while we are all off running around killing the opposition, knee deep in blood and gore. You can run around and farm NPC monsters and do quest to gain money so you can craft weapons and armor to upgrade our towns and outpost guards!

Its an RvR game, not a pvp game.  everthing you do go towards the WAR... not just the skirmish.

It's more than that, completing PvE quests DIRECTLY contributes to the points needed for zone control.  It might not contribute as much as Scenarios but Mythic seems to be implying that one side will need every advantage they can get to win enough to gain control of zone.

The problem with PvE content is that evenutally you go through it all.   But with 6 different PvE racial quest storylines and 4 different classes for each race, there shouldn't be much problem with replayability.

DuraheLL

I don't understand why people think it's negative that not ALL MMORPG's HAVE PVE! This is RVR PVP. PVE should get no light at all. The same reason people play RTS games and so on. Constant PVP ALL THE TIME and no switch in-between.



This game couldn't be better in any way with the PVP/PVE balance as it is said right now.

gabelfreak

Ok the answer its easy.... every single movie i've seen the word WAR its include...... there will also be a high lvl raiding system but the game is all about pvp things so as some ppl allready said.... if u dont like to pvp u better play something else.....

Elgareth

Originally posted by kraiden




You can run around and farm NPC monsters and do quest to gain money so you can craft weapons and armor to upgrade our towns and outpost guards!

*Ahem*

ANY Proof for those rumors?



Because if not, better stay clear from hyping rumored features that maybe will never be included.



(The Weapons and Armor crafting will be from Players, for Players. And the best Crafting stuff will come from raiding the enemy's capitol(s), this is already stated by the Devs)

Anofalye

Originally posted by kraiden


WAIT!

Dont leave we need you!



Heres what you can do, while we are all off running around killing the opposition, knee deep in blood and gore.

You can run around and farm NPC monsters and do quest to gain money so you can craft weapons and armor to upgrade our towns and outpost guards!

Its an RvR game, not a pvp game.  everthing you do go towards the WAR... not just the skirmish.

I really want to try this game.  But I dunno.

 

I can even cope with some PvP (like running on the other side of the map with speed boost if you don't attack)...

 

But, my motivation to do NPC hunting, quest, farming and more...needs to be there.  I will not be happy doing something only to be rewarded with a subpar character in everything.  I need access to endgame-PvE, totally...and raid-free as well, after playing CoV I won't stand any Raiding enforcement.    Guess they are not ready to have real PvE players.

 

And to everyone talking that Warhammer as a Franchise is mostly PvP...well...the RPG is PvE, everything in the RPG is PvE, chaos isn't playable in the rpg, nor are greens, they are controlled by the DM and if the DM allows a player to play want, they join in a PvE way with the group...The PvP in wargames is GBT, not real time...I need some kind of warranty that I won't be trapped into real time reflex-oriented PvP/RvR.  So Warhammer, the Franchise, is mostly PvE and it PvP component is mostly GBT...yet, the setting is perfect for RvR...it will just attract...many non-PvPers or GBT fans...dunno if Mythic want to capitalize on this attraction or just don't care.

 

As to my contribution by doing PvE to RvR...I have nothing against it...but the devs have to be carefull...I shouldn't unsettle the balance...and my farming capacities are...amazing to say the least...so even if a PvE mission only grants 10% of the points of a PvP encounter, I fear it would be...unsettling for the other side to say the least.  Yet, this contribution isn't important to me.  It wouldn't motivate me.  I wouldn't go do that mission telling myself...I help my side...nope...I need my PvE candies.  I could run the same mission hundred of times, if needed...to acquire what I want...that is something that could be unbalancing, I am not sure it would be fair a side get any benefit from my PvE stubborness, yet, I don't mind...

Anofalye

Originally posted by Elgareth







(The Weapons and Armor crafting will be from Players, for Players. And the best Crafting stuff will come from raiding the enemy's capitol(s), this is already stated by the Devs)

Tradreskills enforcements topped with RvR enforcement?  As long as this "best" is only for PvP...but if it is a best overall, you can be sure to...

/unsigned me from the whole game. 

DuraheLL

Originally posted by Anofalye

Originally posted by kraiden


WAIT!

Dont leave we need you!



Heres what you can do, while we are all off running around killing the opposition, knee deep in blood and gore.

You can run around and farm NPC monsters and do quest to gain money so you can craft weapons and armor to upgrade our towns and outpost guards!

Its an RvR game, not a pvp game.  everthing you do go towards the WAR... not just the skirmish.

I really want to try this game.  But I dunno.

 

I can even cope with some PvP (like running on the other side of the map with speed boost if you don't attack)...

 

But, my motivation to do NPC hunting, quest, farming and more...needs to be there.  I will not be happy doing something only to be rewarded with a subpar character in everything.  I need access to endgame-PvE, totally...and raid-free as well, after playing CoV I won't stand any Raiding enforcement.    Guess they are not ready to have real PvE players.

 

And to everyone talking that Warhammer as a Franchise is mostly PvP...well...the RPG is PvE, everything in the RPG is PvE, chaos isn't playable in the rpg, nor are greens, they are controlled by the DM and if the DM allows a player to play want, they join in a PvE way with the group...The PvP in wargames is GBT, not real time...I need some kind of warranty that I won't be trapped into real time reflex-oriented PvP/RvR.  So Warhammer, the Franchise, is mostly PvE and it PvP component is mostly GBT...yet, the setting is perfect for RvR...it will just attract...many non-PvPers or GBT fans...dunno if Mythic want to capitalize on this attraction or just don't care.

 

As to my contribution by doing PvE to RvR...I have nothing against it...but the devs have to be carefull...I shouldn't unsettle the balance...and my farming capacities are...amazing to say the least...so even if a PvE mission only grants 10% of the points of a PvP encounter, I fear it would be...unsettling for the other side to say the least.  Yet, this contribution isn't important to me.  It wouldn't motivate me.  I wouldn't go do that mission telling myself...I help my side...nope...I need my PvE candies.  I could run the same mission hundred of times, if needed...to acquire what I want...that is something that could be unbalancing, I am not sure it would be fair a side get any benefit from my PvE stubborness, yet, I don't mind...

Yet again I think you're a bit unfair. That you mention they "dont care" about not satisfying the potencial PvE audience.



The game is settled to be variated enough on slaughtering people.



If you are PvE person PvP person what difference does it make? Does it matter if the people you are killing are player controlled or computer controlled?



In this game there is no connection between enemies. You dont speak to them, they dont speak to you. A PvE person is mostly afraid of (what I've learned so far) being treated bad by PvP people. But this won't be an issue here.



I just think that if peple could drop the tence, and accept the fact you can fully live on PvP / RvR alone, they'd be much more happy. If you're a PvE person the fact still stand, YOU LOVE TO KILL STUFF! This is the game for you who love to kill stuff.



I think that the effort in standard RvR quests or PvE quests in this game will be great and variating for any PvE or PvP person alone. And just as forgiving for the other.

Anofalye

Originally posted by mcharj11

How can you say that most fans of the Warhammer franchise are not PvP driven. Most Warhammer fans play the tabletop battles WHFB or WH40k which involves PvP, The WHRP crowd is in the minority. What would the point be in taking an IP that is fantastic for RvR/PvP and then making it focus on bashing npc's with no inteligence.

 

Did I ask for more PvE?  No.

 

Did I ask for less PvP?  No.

 

If you can't read and then start been arrogant and insulting players around, this is not my fault.  The RPG crowd is far more numerous then you think, and it may vary a lot based on your location.  Maybe they are a minority in your town, but here, they outnumber the Wargames crowds easily and...

 

WHFB and WH40k are GBT games in case you didn't notice.  Nothing to do with real time PvP.

 

PS: All I ever ask, was that the best carebears, are carebears...(excluding raiding and crafting enforcements which are lames gameplays and shouldn't be enforced on interesting gameplays)