Is it just me or is Supernerd starting to sound like a troll? all the posts I have seen him make are about how nerdy he/she is...
He didn't sound as if he was trolling. I did find it sort of disturbing that he's so fearful of being fooled by gay people but he sounded sincere enough. He was defending his opinion and I think he expected more people to agree with him. I don't know about other posts (I can't think of any at the moment) but I don't think he was trolling with this one.
I don't even know where to begin. Let me start by suggesting a few things...... 1) Why don't you take a break from gaming for a week or two and regain some perspective. When you have to "interview" for a guild/kinship/linkshell via voice chat like it was a job it's no longer a game. You're taking it way too serious if you don't see anything wrong with that. 2) While you're on your break go get some sun and work on your tan. Breathe fresh air outside. Sink your toes in the sand which is part of the real world. 3) Now that your tan is going, go out and buy some clothes (you'll need them for later steps) 4) If you're old enough I want you to go out and hit a few night spots. Talk to a girl for the love of god. 5) If one of the girls you talk to is cute, ask her on a date. At NO time on your date are you to mention your level 70 gnome mage or last weeks MC raid or how you think warlocks are overpowered or ANYTHING along those lines. For all she knows you're a completely normal guy. Hopefully after completed those steps you can come back and reread some of the posts on this thread you'll have a new view of the world around you. If you still see nothing wrong with the path you're on then you're a lost cause.
Time is precious my friend, they're just games and not worth revolving your life around.
Get a grip. Joining a guild in WoW is no different from joining any other group. No one in the group wants someone to come in and disturb the whole thing. It doesn't matter that it's a game, the guild is not a game, it's a group of like minded individuals who at the very least are trying to enjoy some company with friends. You act like the only reason for a guild is to go raiding. Sometimes that is a goal, but if you think that's all it is, then you're not right for my guild. You wouldn't fit it. We raid 3 days a week and do whatever we want the rest of the time. If you can't make it, all that's required is that you post on the forums ahead of time that you won't be there so we can find someone else and so we're not waiting around for you to show up. You don't even need to specify a reason, because whatever you feel is more important to do is fine with us, but common courtesy toward your friends is expected.
Now I want you to instead of going to a club, go to a chat room and then after chatting with people there for 5 or 10 minutes tell me if you would like to spend more time with them. Bet you can't do it or at the very least it would be difficult. You simply can't get to know someone very well chatting online with them in 5 or 10 minutes. It's impossible. But talk to that person 5 or 10 minutes, even if it's not face to face and you'll know pretty much whether it's someone you want to spend more time with. And that's all you're trying to do.
I'm 43, so don't even pretend to talk to me like I'm some 16 yr old that's never experienced anything. I have 5 children and 2 grand kids. I've been married, divorced and remarried. I've seen one sister bury her husband from a gunshot wound and another lose one to cancer. I have a 40 hour a week job and play WoW because frankly I find television boring, I'd rather spend my time online with friends. I won't pretend to know what you have experienced in life, don't pretend to know what I have.
ok, I only read the first page... since most responses were similar...
I've played MMORPGs for 6 years now... I've played both as a hard core gamer, RPer, and as a casual enthusiast... all at various times. Also, I'm 30 and am not logging into games in search of 'friends', unlike quite a few people I've met along the way...
My guilds for 5 of those years used Ventrillo/Teamspeak... and here is my take on things.. Voice Chat in many cases is a negative thing 1) I've heard people's personal real-life problems in the background of open mics... 2)I've played with people that have fallen asleep numerous times and snored into their mic... 3)I've played with people that like to ramble alot... 4)I've played with people whom like to hear their own voice so much they describe in excrutiating detail everything they do in game (all of which you've done before). 5)I've played with people that are great people in-game, but the second the raid mob drops they turn to beggars... 6)I've played with people whom have squeeky whiney voices 7)I've played with people whom can't express themselves with anything other than cursewords 8)I've played with people whom go off on their own and have 1to1 conversations and game talk in a room of 20 people... 9)I've heard tooooooo many people eating online 10) I've heard people whom think it is fun to yell into their mic and other's whom volume you can barely hear (I don't hear low decibel sounds, so this is frustrating) 11) I've been a guild leader and spent hours discussing guild politics on vent... it gets painful after awhile... 12) I've found that all the drama that is guaranteed to happen in games and guilds if someone plays long enough is amplified by 1000x when it is over a voice chat. 13) I've found that people take it personally if you go to another chat channel 14) I've found that over voice, people seem to be a lot more willing to gossip about guildmates... 15) I've watched people try to make relationships, because OMG it's a girl.... (get out of the house some....) 16) I've played with kids whom are still in their OMG, it's funny to be drunk online phase... Here's the NEWs.. it's not funny and no we don't want to hear someone slur every word for a few hours... 17) I've seen a greater sense of mass-quitting, because of 'friend' and voice chat regular quits... 18) I've seen such vicious arguments when 'the next new game' comes out and some are excited and some could care less (much like these forums)... chat just intensifies people's defense mechanisms... The one thing that I've seen with absolute certainty is that skilled players are good with and without a chat server... the only thing that I've seen a chat server do is get the attention of people whom haven't a clue or more often.. people whom feel the need to watch a movie and do a raid at the same time... Yes, those are the people in game that you type over and over "*****, STOP ATTACKING!!!"...
90% of that can be stopped via the administrator priviledges. All you need are a couple of responsible people who will move people to their own channel or ask whomever it is that is disrupting things to move to a different channel. Actually about 75% of the time just asking them to move to their own channel will fix the problem as they either do or they realize they are making others uncomfortable and stop whatever is causing the problem. At least that's my experience. And some of that can be prevented before it ever happens by making sure that the people who use vent are spoken with prior to entering the guild and are told what is expected of them. If they choose to ignore the rules, then they're either removed from the channel or removed from the guild.
One other thing that I encourage people to use is "push-to-talk". This has saved me countless embarrassing moments. Every once in a while something will go out along the internet that shouldn't, but for the most part my guild mates only hear what I want them to hear. Now if only there was a push-to-talk button with my wife, I'd be set.
MMORPGS are full of griefers, spammers, cheaters, gold farmers, dupers, and people with offensive names. And yet none of them seem to draw the same hate and resentment as someone that wants guild members to use vent.
Amazing.. absolutely amazing. We are up to 16 pages and still growing.
The OP's reasons are sad but... Im actually seeing really angry people in here. Rabid even.
Sure are a lot of voip haters out there. Personally I don't mind vent at all, but if you don't then you can simply not join a guild that uses it. Good luck raiding, though. It makes things a lot easier to coordinate, so most guilds use it.
And why the hate about an interview? People write up long rants about people shouting in their ears and the ever-present 12-year-olds and their immaturity, but did you stop to think that maybe a vent interview would help filter out some of those people?
Last, all these posts about how people need to get outside or get a girlfriend or whatever are annoying. I don't tell you how to spend your time or money, don't tell me how to spend mine. Categorizing people as "losers" cause they're more serious about their MMO than you are kinda makes you sound like, well, a loser.
I really don't see why the original poster suddenly ended up on the "virtual chopping block" for this one. Most serious guilds interview their potential newcomers anyways, so why not do it over TeamSpeak/Ventrilo/etc.? (Plus, the benefits from not having to type everything down in crucial moments during gameplay are obvious).
EDIT: No, I haven't read all the other posts by the OP.
I hate voip, its basically people the others how to play. You got one smart person who has to babysit the rest of the players who do not know how to play, now get a group of people who DO now how to play the game, you dont need vent. Stop playing with morons and you won't need vent or ts. Vent/ts snobs run rampant now and I will still be a better player than them any day of the week b/c I know how to play, they do not. And if their babysitter isnt home to get on voip then they are out of luck
This seems rather silly to me...Granted I didn't read all this thread,just the first few pages. But It just really seems it's mostly important because this guy wants to "really" know if somebody is a guy or girl...thats so very important.
Anyways...I'm not a big fan of Vent...In WoW I would load up vent to listen to raids,but I never once spoke. I don't even like talking on the phone. Needless to say I think Vent is a decent tool for raids,but I'm from the old school EQ days when EVERYTHING was through text...I really don't understand why people in WoW can't live without Vent,because raids in WoW are rather easy compaired to the Raids in Everquest.
I don't care if a guild uses Vent,but I wont ever join a guild that requires vent interviews.
Originally posted by Noktaris This seems rather silly to me...Granted I didn't read all this thread,just the first few pages. But It just really seems it's mostly important because this guy wants to "really" know if somebody is a guy or girl...thats so very important. Anyways...I'm not a big fan of Vent...In WoW I would load up vent to listen to raids,but I never once spoke. I don't even like talking on the phone. Needless to say I think Vent is a decent tool for raids,but I'm from the old school EQ days when EVERYTHING was through text...I really don't understand why people in WoW can't live without Vent,because raids in WoW are rather easy compaired to the Raids in Everquest. I don't care if a guild uses Vent,but I wont ever join a guild that requires vent interviews.
People like using VOIP because it convenient and it allows a greater amount of interaction and freedom to do two things at once. It also allows for the rapid delivery of important information that would other wise take to much time to relay.
You might as well be asking..."Why don't people use snail mail when trying to reach a friend instead of cell phones? like they used to do in the 'good o'l days'?". People tend to gravitated to progressive technology that improves their lives and eases the burden of doing activities that require some concentration.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by M1sf1t People like using VOIP because it convenient and it allows a greater amount of interaction and freedom to do two things at once. It also allows for the rapid delivery of important information that would other wise take to much time to relay. You might as well be asking..."Why don't people use snail mail when trying to reach a friend instead of cell phones? like they used to do in the 'good o'l days'?". People tend to gravitated to progressive technology that improves their lives and eases the burden of doing activities that require some concentration.
It's absolutely nothing to do with progressive technology, so please don't fool yourself into thinking that you must be more advanced somehow.
It's mostly about the kind of game you want to play. As far as I can see, generally, this thread is composed of people who want to play two different types of game, MMOs for the vent crowd, and MMORPGs for the non-vent crowd. The exceptions being those that can't use voip or would be at a disadvantage for doing so.
I wouldn't mind a guild wanting an interview, so long as it was in character. It seems the OP's whole point of using vent for this was to interview OOC and find out about the player. That's fine, but it's not the kind of guild I would join nor the kind of game I want to play.
With the right people, it might just be possible to role-play using voip. Mostly, when I've come across those kind of people, they'd rather type .
Originally posted by M1sf1t People like using VOIP because it convenient and it allows a greater amount of interaction and freedom to do two things at once. It also allows for the rapid delivery of important information that would other wise take to much time to relay. You might as well be asking..."Why don't people use snail mail when trying to reach a friend instead of cell phones? like they used to do in the 'good o'l days'?". People tend to gravitated to progressive technology that improves their lives and eases the burden of doing activities that require some concentration.
It's absolutely nothing to do with progressive technology, so please don't fool yourself into thinking that you must be more advanced somehow. It's mostly about the kind of game you want to play. As far as I can see, generally, this thread is composed of people who want to play two different types of game, MMOs for the vent crowd, and MMORPGs for the non-vent crowd. The exceptions being those that can't use voip or would be at a disadvantage for doing so. I wouldn't mind a guild wanting an interview, so long as it was in character. It seems the OP's whole point of using vent for this was to interview OOC and find out about the player. That's fine, but it's not the kind of guild I would join nor the kind of game I want to play. With the right people, it might just be possible to role-play using voip. Mostly, when I've come across those kind of people, they'd rather type .
I was responding to his question as to why people feel the needed to use VOIP in raids. For people like me I like using all the tools I can get a hold of to make things more convenient, fun and also increases the social interactions with people I play with on a regular basis. So it is a progressive technology because it improves the state of social interaction with my fellow guild mates and online friends.
If you are part of the crowd that doesn't like VOIP then I would agree that your reasons and opinions against VOIP might be different. Yet he was asking why WE like using VOIP so much not why folks like you dislike it. VOIP is a major step forward for me and using it is a plus for when I am doing any major group activity. I don't use VOIP for everything though in fact I usually only use it for group activities myself but I do enjoy it when I am using it. I also think it's a good idea to have guild rules governing the use of VOIP and dealing with it's abuse in some cases. IMHO Push-To-Talk IMHO is your best friend when it comes to VOIP.
This whole debate is so convoluted though because not all of us are RP'ers, not all of us are PvP'ers, not all of us are Raiders, not all of us use VOIP everyday or at all etc. So there are many reasons why you would not want to use it and reasons why you would use it.
The big point is that there is nothing wrong with VOIP. If you don't like it then don't use it and don't join a guild that requires it's use. No one is going to force you to be in a guild after all or force you to use VOIP if you don't want to use it.
The negative reactions and lashing out at the OP ( outside his girl/dude comments ) around VOIP is really just absurd considering the voluntary nature of VOIP and the act of joining a guild.
Everyone in any MMO is free to form their own guilds and create their own rules in their guilds after all. Just as you are free to pick and choose which guild you join. If people feel that interviews are just to much well that is okay because no one is going to force you into one. Yet don't expect guilds that require you to do a interview or use VOIP to cater to you at all.
Some of us after all prefer interviews over blindly inviting random people who might cause trouble and end up being a detriment to our guilds. Some of us also enjoy the benefits that VOIP offers over any sort of negatives that some may draw around it's use.
The same can be said to go the opposite way as well for guilds that prohibit and refuse the use of VOIP. Those looking to join such guilds and who want to push the use of VOIP into these guilds should not become upset if they are rejected in the end.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I think it's a good idea for those who like to raid. For me I don't raid and I don't take games that seriously anymore. It's to much of a hassle and too time consuming. If you like to do it and others don't mind the militarian structure of the guild great for you guys. For me I'm not interested in joining an army run by immature people. I just want to play the game and have fun. Hopefully raiding will be abolished one day. If you need voice chat for PvP something is wrong IMO.
I think voice is crucial for pvp,unless you are just solo ganking low levels or something.
Also,about taking raids too serious, i don't buy that at all.
Raiding and Pvp is what end game is all about and i believe using voice is crucial for both.
I think it has nothing to do with taking playing too serious,
it's just about communicating easier,especially when it helps everyone else in the guild.
See the highlighted words? Your opinion does not make something right.
Alot of guilds in different games do interviews, it does not require voice chat to do so.
Have you considered the fact that alot of girl/women gamers do not want everyone to know they are female because they don't want 12 year old hormonal rejects PMing them for cybor the whole fucking time?
And as far as your argument about raiding requiring voice, sorry to inform you but we've all been raiding for years just fine without it in every game out there.
You want your guild to require voice? Then start your own guild and tell them your requirements for getting in. Good luck with the little guild you manage to scrape up.
I was responding to his question as to why people feel the needed to use VOIP in raids. For people like me I like using all the tools I can get a hold of to make things more convenient, fun and also increases the social interactions with people I play with on a regular basis. So it is a progressive technology because it improves the state of social interaction with my fellow guild mates and online friends.
Ah I get you. You were comparing yourself to yourself prior to having voip options, not compared to those who choose not to use it. My apologies.
I hate voip, its basically people the others how to play. You got one smart person who has to babysit the rest of the players who do not know how to play, now get a group of people who DO now how to play the game, you dont need vent. Stop playing with morons and you won't need vent or ts. Vent/ts snobs run rampant now and I will still be a better player than them any day of the week b/c I know how to play, they do not. And if their babysitter isnt home to get on voip then they are out of luck
I noticed this a lot too through the different guilds I played in. The elite guilds I played in however, were efficient with or without voice chat. The voice chat also had relatively no impact on success rate for the experienced groups I was in. I do, however, see the advantage of it for a group of lemmings that aren't familiar with what they need to be doing... unfortunately, there are a lot of these types in MMORPGs especially in end-game raiding... For some reason some people are especially keen on playing games in fast forward and never learn how to play in teams/raids without assistance.
I was a raid leader for years... I learned to type very fast, considering when I started vent / teamspeak were not well known or used. People whom paid attention easily followed the raid commands and we were never wiped because of inefficient commands or because we didn't have chat... The only time we were ever wiped was the result of some moron not paying attention, or whom felt it was important to leave the computer mid raid (bio, food, door, etc.)...
Voice Chat is a great advantage in PvP, coordinated attacks and strategies are much better passed... in PvP you have to think on the fly... In PvM, Voice chat is not needed for good players. PvM encounters are fairly well scripted and easily learned and repeated. In fact, I think Voice Chat drags down the IQ of players as they rarely learn what to do and just wait for their lemming moment.
With the introduction of Vent/TeamSpeak in different guilds I was in, as a vent / teamspeak user I noticed there definitely was a division within the guilds between the users and the non-users.. The two groups didn't interact much for obvious reasons. The Voice users only seemed to talk in voice chat. The Guild Chat in game went fairly silent. The Voice users tended to only team with other voice users.
In the end it's probably better for a guild or organization to choose to either be Voice Chat Only or Voice Chat for Raid Only or No Voice Chat. In 6 years of guild leadership, It's only worked to be a devisive instrument that shreds the guild/org into two mini-groups.
I personally would not choose a Voice Chat Interview guild for myself. For one, I am not buying a microphone just to get into a guild. For two, I'm a highly skilled player, experienced leader, and friendly giving player...
Some people take these games a little too far... both in terms of caring what sex the person on the other computer is (relationships)... or replacing real-life friends with online friends... or replacing real-life responsibilities with online responsibilities... It's supposed to be about fun / entertainment... All in all, it's a little spooky, how far some people take these things...
I think it's a good idea for those who like to raid. For me I don't raid and I don't take games that seriously anymore. It's to much of a hassle and too time consuming. If you like to do it and others don't mind the militarian structure of the guild great for you guys. For me I'm not interested in joining an army run by immature people. I just want to play the game and have fun. Hopefully raiding will be abolished one day. If you need voice chat for PvP something is wrong IMO.
I think voice is crucial for pvp,unless you are just solo ganking low levels or something.
Also,about taking raids too serious, i don't buy that at all. Raiding and Pvp is what end game is all about and i believe using voice is crucial for both. I think it has nothing to do with taking playing too serious, it's just about communicating easier,especially when it helps everyone else in the guild.
See the highlighted words? Your opinion does not make something right. Alot of guilds in different games do interviews, it does not require voice chat to do so. Have you considered the fact that alot of girl/women gamers do not want everyone to know they are female because they don't want 12 year old hormonal rejects PMing them for cybor the whole fucking time? And as far as your argument about raiding requiring voice, sorry to inform you but we've all been raiding for years just fine without it in every game out there. You want your guild to require voice? Then start your own guild and tell them your requirements for getting in. Good luck with the little guild you manage to scrape up.
Really so are you saying that he would not be able to create a large guild if he required the use of VOIP? I got to tell you that I've know some very large guilds that had VOIP as a guild policy and required the use of VOIP even if it's just merely requesting that players use it to listen in on raids.
Also why do you guys always assume that only 12 year old children use VOIP? From my own experience with every guild I've been in that used VOIP there has always been a age limit of 18-22+ years of age. What is up with that stereotype?
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by sreljac In the end it's probably better for a guild or organization to choose to either be Voice Chat Only or Voice Chat for Raid Only or No Voice Chat. In 6 years of guild leadership, It's only worked to be a devisive instrument that shreds the guild/org into two mini-groups.
I think red is better than blue so it is and you're all wrong if you don't agree. < - - When I see everyone expressing viewpoints back and fourth that is what I see. People are trying to defend an opinion which is fine in and of itself but dont express it as fact.
The truth is there are young and old, male and female, and diversity all over the map. You are never going to reach consensus. My OPINION is voice chat is complete crap and has ruined socialized gaming for me. I share the setiment that I don't want to hear all the people I associate wtih in a video game.
I however, am mature enough to understand that this is my opinion. I also have the opinion that WoW can be a bicycle with training wheels for MMO newbs and generally brings out the worst ideas in gaming. Pop culture has a way of making everything generic and systematic and no, I dont want irl touching on my fantasy play.
I don't even know where to begin. Let me start by suggesting a few things...... 1) Why don't you take a break from gaming for a week or two and regain some perspective. When you have to "interview" for a guild/kinship/linkshell via voice chat like it was a job it's no longer a game. You're taking it way too serious if you don't see anything wrong with that. 2) While you're on your break go get some sun and work on your tan. Breathe fresh air outside. Sink your toes in the sand which is part of the real world. 3) Now that your tan is going, go out and buy some clothes (you'll need them for later steps) 4) If you're old enough I want you to go out and hit a few night spots. Talk to a girl for the love of god. 5) If one of the girls you talk to is cute, ask her on a date. At NO time on your date are you to mention your level 70 gnome mage or last weeks MC raid or how you think warlocks are overpowered or ANYTHING along those lines. For all she knows you're a completely normal guy. Hopefully after completed those steps you can come back and reread some of the posts on this thread you'll have a new view of the world around you. If you still see nothing wrong with the path you're on then you're a lost cause.
Time is precious my friend, they're just games and not worth revolving your life around.
Get a grip. Joining a guild in WoW is no different from joining any other group. No one in the group wants someone to come in and disturb the whole thing. It doesn't matter that it's a game, the guild is not a game, it's a group of like minded individuals who at the very least are trying to enjoy some company with friends. You act like the only reason for a guild is to go raiding. Sometimes that is a goal, but if you think that's all it is, then you're not right for my guild. You wouldn't fit it. We raid 3 days a week and do whatever we want the rest of the time. If you can't make it, all that's required is that you post on the forums ahead of time that you won't be there so we can find someone else and so we're not waiting around for you to show up. You don't even need to specify a reason, because whatever you feel is more important to do is fine with us, but common courtesy toward your friends is expected.
Now I want you to instead of going to a club, go to a chat room and then after chatting with people there for 5 or 10 minutes tell me if you would like to spend more time with them. Bet you can't do it or at the very least it would be difficult. You simply can't get to know someone very well chatting online with them in 5 or 10 minutes. It's impossible. But talk to that person 5 or 10 minutes, even if it's not face to face and you'll know pretty much whether it's someone you want to spend more time with. And that's all you're trying to do.
I'm 43, so don't even pretend to talk to me like I'm some 16 yr old that's never experienced anything. I have 5 children and 2 grand kids. I've been married, divorced and remarried. I've seen one sister bury her husband from a gunshot wound and another lose one to cancer. I have a 40 hour a week job and play WoW because frankly I find television boring, I'd rather spend my time online with friends. I won't pretend to know what you have experienced in life, don't pretend to know what I have.
You apparently saw what you wanted to see in my post.
1) I never said joining a guild wasn't like joining a recreation group of some sort. I actually agree. What I don't understand is why you would interview for such a thing. What, you mean to tell me that grouping with a person a few times isn't enough to see if someone fits the mold for your guild? I bet you wish you could sit the potentional recruit on a chair with a hot light over his head. Play a little "good cop/bad cop" with you and your guildies dragging out information ranging from play times, guild loyalty, what coast they live on, how long his average bathroom break is when he plays, etc etc.
2) I never said or acted like guilds were only for raiding. IMO guilds are for making new friends, doing quests together, having a few laughs and so on. Helping each other out is also a big plus. When guilds recruit you take the good with the bad. You recruit 10 in a week and maybe 2-3 weeks down the road 4-5+ have decide to make your guild their new home for a time. For people it's the same way as you join different guilds and some fit what you're looking for and some don't so you leave. I'm not going to sell my soul to some guild gestapo to have a good time.
3) That going to the chat room comment really didn't make a whole lot of sense so I'll reply with what I think you were getting at. There is a vast difference between a "chat room" and a "night club" Online people can paint a picture of whoever they want to be, in person they can do the same to a lesser degree (it depends on a) how smart they are or b) how dumb you are) Back to my grouping example. If I've run a few quests with someone and I enjoy their company, I friend list them. If I group a few more times and we grow to be friends online I inquire about their guild or perhaps try to draw them into mine. Tell me, whats so wrong with that? You can type, voice chat or whatever and that person can sit there and pretty much say whatever you want to hear. You tell me which is the better way to judge a person's character (as in morals, presonality, etc etc) Yeah, that's what I thought.
4)I don't know where your little personal bio fit into all of this. You tried to make a point but it was a bit melodramtic. I think you're insinuating that I'm some punk kid, blah blah blah. I'm 35, divorced, about to get married again, I have a kid, I saw 3 combat operations all over the world in my 6 years in the USMC. I work 50+ hours a week as a union carpenter and I play because my roots go back to gaming from the days of the old atari and D&D before it was in hard cover books. My post earlier was directed at giving someone else a little perspective. I felt he is taking this MMO thing a little too seriously and missing out . Sorta like how you took a simple post a little too seriously. You tell me to get a grip, whelp, I'm telling you to lighten up there Sunshine.
You apparently saw what you wanted to see in my post. 1) I never said joining a guild wasn't like joining a recreation group of some sort. I actually agree. What I don't understand is why you would interview for such a thing. What, you mean to tell me that grouping with a person a few times isn't enough to see if someone fits the mold for your guild? I bet you wish you could sit the potentional recruit on a chair with a hot light over his head. Play a little "good cop/bad cop" with you and your guildies dragging out information ranging from play times, guild loyalty, what coast they live on, how long his average bathroom break is when he plays, etc etc. So, you don't think a recreation group has a right to talk with you before joining their group? Why not? Especially if they are going to have to be interacting with you as part of that group. It only makes sense that we meet beforehand and make sure that you really want to join the group and we really want you to join the group. If we wait until you're already IN the group to find out that we really don't like you, then we have to force you to leave. That's a bad situation. I'd much rather find out beforehand as much as possible about you so that doesn't happen. The best way I know of to do that is talk with you. There are things that happen in oral conversations that you simply can't get from written dialog. Tone of my voice for instance or just inflection in my voice. When you explain the rules to someone and they sigh and say "That's fine" you know right away they are really thinking "That sucks, but I'll put up with it", but if that same person responds in chat "That's fine." you might think they think everything is wonderful. 2) I never said or acted like guilds were only for raiding. IMO guilds are for making new friends, doing quests together, having a few laughs and so on. Helping each other out is also a big plus. When guilds recruit you take the good with the bad. You recruit 10 in a week and maybe 2-3 weeks down the road 4-5+ have decide to make your guild their new home for a time. For people it's the same way as you join different guilds and some fit what you're looking for and some don't so you leave. I'm not going to sell my soul to some guild gestapo to have a good time. No one is forcing you to stay and you're free to leave at anytime for any reason, but we'd rather NOT have to ask you to leave. That's what we are trying to avoid. 3) That going to the chat room comment really didn't make a whole lot of sense so I'll reply with what I think you were getting at. There is a vast difference between a "chat room" and a "night club" Online people can paint a picture of whoever they want to be, in person they can do the same to a lesser degree (it depends on a) how smart they are or b) how dumb you are) Back to my grouping example. If I've run a few quests with someone and I enjoy their company, I friend list them. If I group a few more times and we grow to be friends online I inquire about their guild or perhaps try to draw them into mine. Tell me, whats so wrong with that? You can type, voice chat or whatever and that person can sit there and pretty much say whatever you want to hear. You tell me which is the better way to judge a person's character (as in morals, presonality, etc etc) Yeah, that's what I thought. I disagree completely. I could pretend to be a 14 yr old girl in a chat channel very easily. It wouldn't be that tough, I would just have to think of what my daughter might say and post it. However the chances that I could pull off pretending to be a 14 yr old girl on Ventrilo are about zero. And I'm not talking morals, I'm talking about personality. I wouldn't presume to be able to judge someone's morals except thru prior experience with that person and even that is shaky as people often change for the better or worse. The problem with running a few quests with people and getting to know them is that it simply takes too much time for the number of recruits we have. We might have 5 or 6 or more a week. So for someone to have to spend a couple hours running an instance or 2 with all these recruits, were talking about 10 to 12 hours a week possibly. That's a heck of a lot of time and frankly we don't play enough for that. We can normally talk to the person for 5 or 10 minutes and find out in that amount of time whether or not they will probably "fit in". It's not an exact science, but it's a heck of a lot faster than spending a couple hours getting to know them and it's a heck of a lot less painful too if we realize after 10 minutes we don't like them. LOL Maybe that's a bit unfair to the recruit, but such is life. No one said life was fair. 4)I don't know where your little personal bio fit into all of this. You tried to make a point but it was a bit melodramtic. I think you're insinuating that I'm some punk kid, blah blah blah. I'm 35, divorced, about to get married again, I have a kid, I saw 3 combat operations all over the world in my 6 years in the USMC. I work 50+ hours a week as a union carpenter and I play because my roots go back to gaming from the days of the old atari and D&D before it was in hard cover books. My post earlier was directed at giving someone else a little perspective. I felt he is taking this MMO thing a little too seriously and missing out . Sorta like how you took a simple post a little too seriously. You tell me to get a grip, whelp, I'm telling you to lighten up there Sunshine. You're changing gears now. Now that you know you're not dealing with some 16 yr old you backed way off of that "go out and get a life stance". That was my point and you got it. It wasn't me doing the insinuating. I appreciate that your comments in this post were much more mature.
You apparently saw what you wanted to see in my post. 1) I never said joining a guild wasn't like joining a recreation group of some sort. I actually agree. What I don't understand is why you would interview for such a thing. What, you mean to tell me that grouping with a person a few times isn't enough to see if someone fits the mold for your guild? I bet you wish you could sit the potentional recruit on a chair with a hot light over his head. Play a little "good cop/bad cop" with you and your guildies dragging out information ranging from play times, guild loyalty, what coast they live on, how long his average bathroom break is when he plays, etc etc. So, you don't think a recreation group has a right to talk with you before joining their group? Why not? Especially if they are going to have to be interacting with you as part of that group. It only makes sense that we meet beforehand and make sure that you really want to join the group and we really want you to join the group. If we wait until you're already IN the group to find out that we really don't like you, then we have to force you to leave. That's a bad situation. I'd much rather find out beforehand as much as possible about you so that doesn't happen. The best way I know of to do that is talk with you. There are things that happen in oral conversations that you simply can't get from written dialog. Tone of my voice for instance or just inflection in my voice. When you explain the rules to someone and they sigh and say "That's fine" you know right away they are really thinking "That sucks, but I'll put up with it", but if that same person responds in chat "That's fine." you might think they think everything is wonderful. 2) I never said or acted like guilds were only for raiding. IMO guilds are for making new friends, doing quests together, having a few laughs and so on. Helping each other out is also a big plus. When guilds recruit you take the good with the bad. You recruit 10 in a week and maybe 2-3 weeks down the road 4-5+ have decide to make your guild their new home for a time. For people it's the same way as you join different guilds and some fit what you're looking for and some don't so you leave. I'm not going to sell my soul to some guild gestapo to have a good time. No one is forcing you to stay and you're free to leave at anytime for any reason, but we'd rather NOT have to ask you to leave. That's what we are trying to avoid. 3) That going to the chat room comment really didn't make a whole lot of sense so I'll reply with what I think you were getting at. There is a vast difference between a "chat room" and a "night club" Online people can paint a picture of whoever they want to be, in person they can do the same to a lesser degree (it depends on a) how smart they are or b) how dumb you are) Back to my grouping example. If I've run a few quests with someone and I enjoy their company, I friend list them. If I group a few more times and we grow to be friends online I inquire about their guild or perhaps try to draw them into mine. Tell me, whats so wrong with that? You can type, voice chat or whatever and that person can sit there and pretty much say whatever you want to hear. You tell me which is the better way to judge a person's character (as in morals, presonality, etc etc) Yeah, that's what I thought. I disagree completely. I could pretend to be a 14 yr old girl in a chat channel very easily. It wouldn't be that tough, I would just have to think of what my daughter might say and post it. However the chances that I could pull off pretending to be a 14 yr old girl on Ventrilo are about zero. And I'm not talking morals, I'm talking about personality. I wouldn't presume to be able to judge someone's morals except thru prior experience with that person and even that is shaky as people often change for the better or worse. The problem with running a few quests with people and getting to know them is that it simply takes too much time for the number of recruits we have. We might have 5 or 6 or more a week. So for someone to have to spend a couple hours running an instance or 2 with all these recruits, were talking about 10 to 12 hours a week possibly. That's a heck of a lot of time and frankly we don't play enough for that. We can normally talk to the person for 5 or 10 minutes and find out in that amount of time whether or not they will probably "fit in". It's not an exact science, but it's a heck of a lot faster than spending a couple hours getting to know them and it's a heck of a lot less painful too if we realize after 10 minutes we don't like them. LOL Maybe that's a bit unfair to the recruit, but such is life. No one said life was fair. 4)I don't know where your little personal bio fit into all of this. You tried to make a point but it was a bit melodramtic. I think you're insinuating that I'm some punk kid, blah blah blah. I'm 35, divorced, about to get married again, I have a kid, I saw 3 combat operations all over the world in my 6 years in the USMC. I work 50+ hours a week as a union carpenter and I play because my roots go back to gaming from the days of the old atari and D&D before it was in hard cover books. My post earlier was directed at giving someone else a little perspective. I felt he is taking this MMO thing a little too seriously and missing out . Sorta like how you took a simple post a little too seriously. You tell me to get a grip, whelp, I'm telling you to lighten up there Sunshine. You're changing gears now. Now that you know you're not dealing with some 16 yr old you backed way off of that "go out and get a life stance". That was my point and you got it. It wasn't me doing the insinuating. I appreciate that your comments in this post were much more mature.
You're obviously one of those people who just doesn't get "it" and you'll never get "it" I'm done bantaring back and forth. Get your last word, do what you gotta do. Walk away thinking "ha I showed him" Whatever.
Comments
Is it just me or is Supernerd starting to sound like a troll? all the posts I have seen him make are about how nerdy he/she is...
LEROY JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He didn't sound as if he was trolling. I did find it sort of disturbing that he's so fearful of being fooled by gay people but he sounded sincere enough. He was defending his opinion and I think he expected more people to agree with him. I don't know about other posts (I can't think of any at the moment) but I don't think he was trolling with this one.
Now I want you to instead of going to a club, go to a chat room and then after chatting with people there for 5 or 10 minutes tell me if you would like to spend more time with them. Bet you can't do it or at the very least it would be difficult. You simply can't get to know someone very well chatting online with them in 5 or 10 minutes. It's impossible. But talk to that person 5 or 10 minutes, even if it's not face to face and you'll know pretty much whether it's someone you want to spend more time with. And that's all you're trying to do.
I'm 43, so don't even pretend to talk to me like I'm some 16 yr old that's never experienced anything. I have 5 children and 2 grand kids. I've been married, divorced and remarried. I've seen one sister bury her husband from a gunshot wound and another lose one to cancer. I have a 40 hour a week job and play WoW because frankly I find television boring, I'd rather spend my time online with friends. I won't pretend to know what you have experienced in life, don't pretend to know what I have.
One other thing that I encourage people to use is "push-to-talk". This has saved me countless embarrassing moments. Every once in a while something will go out along the internet that shouldn't, but for the most part my guild mates only hear what I want them to hear. Now if only there was a push-to-talk button with my wife, I'd be set.
MMORPGS are full of griefers, spammers, cheaters, gold farmers, dupers, and people with offensive names. And yet none of them seem to draw the same hate and resentment as someone that wants guild members to use vent.
Amazing.. absolutely amazing. We are up to 16 pages and still growing.
The OP's reasons are sad but... Im actually seeing really angry people in here. Rabid even.
You know that somehow you're going to regret that, don't you?
Sure are a lot of voip haters out there. Personally I don't mind vent at all, but if you don't then you can simply not join a guild that uses it. Good luck raiding, though. It makes things a lot easier to coordinate, so most guilds use it.
And why the hate about an interview? People write up long rants about people shouting in their ears and the ever-present 12-year-olds and their immaturity, but did you stop to think that maybe a vent interview would help filter out some of those people?
Last, all these posts about how people need to get outside or get a girlfriend or whatever are annoying. I don't tell you how to spend your time or money, don't tell me how to spend mine. Categorizing people as "losers" cause they're more serious about their MMO than you are kinda makes you sound like, well, a loser.
I really don't see why the original poster suddenly ended up on the "virtual chopping block" for this one. Most serious guilds interview their potential newcomers anyways, so why not do it over TeamSpeak/Ventrilo/etc.? (Plus, the benefits from not having to type everything down in crucial moments during gameplay are obvious).
EDIT: No, I haven't read all the other posts by the OP.
I hate voip, its basically people the others how to play. You got one smart person who has to babysit the rest of the players who do not know how to play, now get a group of people who DO now how to play the game, you dont need vent. Stop playing with morons and you won't need vent or ts. Vent/ts snobs run rampant now and I will still be a better player than them any day of the week b/c I know how to play, they do not. And if their babysitter isnt home to get on voip then they are out of luck
This seems rather silly to me...Granted I didn't read all this thread,just the first few pages. But It just really seems it's mostly important because this guy wants to "really" know if somebody is a guy or girl...thats so very important.
Anyways...I'm not a big fan of Vent...In WoW I would load up vent to listen to raids,but I never once spoke. I don't even like talking on the phone. Needless to say I think Vent is a decent tool for raids,but I'm from the old school EQ days when EVERYTHING was through text...I really don't understand why people in WoW can't live without Vent,because raids in WoW are rather easy compaired to the Raids in Everquest.
I don't care if a guild uses Vent,but I wont ever join a guild that requires vent interviews.
yea i wont join one that requires it for anything
People like using VOIP because it convenient and it allows a greater amount of interaction and freedom to do two things at once. It also allows for the rapid delivery of important information that would other wise take to much time to relay.
You might as well be asking..."Why don't people use snail mail when trying to reach a friend instead of cell phones? like they used to do in the 'good o'l days'?". People tend to gravitated to progressive technology that improves their lives and eases the burden of doing activities that require some concentration.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
It's mostly about the kind of game you want to play. As far as I can see, generally, this thread is composed of people who want to play two different types of game, MMOs for the vent crowd, and MMORPGs for the non-vent crowd. The exceptions being those that can't use voip or would be at a disadvantage for doing so.
I wouldn't mind a guild wanting an interview, so long as it was in character. It seems the OP's whole point of using vent for this was to interview OOC and find out about the player. That's fine, but it's not the kind of guild I would join nor the kind of game I want to play.
With the right people, it might just be possible to role-play using voip. Mostly, when I've come across those kind of people, they'd rather type
.
I was responding to his question as to why people feel the needed to use VOIP in raids. For people like me I like using all the tools I can get a hold of to make things more convenient, fun and also increases the social interactions with people I play with on a regular basis. So it is a progressive technology because it improves the state of social interaction with my fellow guild mates and online friends.
If you are part of the crowd that doesn't like VOIP then I would agree that your reasons and opinions against VOIP might be different. Yet he was asking why WE like using VOIP so much not why folks like you dislike it. VOIP is a major step forward for me and using it is a plus for when I am doing any major group activity. I don't use VOIP for everything though in fact I usually only use it for group activities myself but I do enjoy it when I am using it. I also think it's a good idea to have guild rules governing the use of VOIP and dealing with it's abuse in some cases. IMHO Push-To-Talk IMHO is your best friend when it comes to VOIP.
This whole debate is so convoluted though because not all of us are RP'ers, not all of us are PvP'ers, not all of us are Raiders, not all of us use VOIP everyday or at all etc. So there are many reasons why you would not want to use it and reasons why you would use it.
The big point is that there is nothing wrong with VOIP. If you don't like it then don't use it and don't join a guild that requires it's use. No one is going to force you to be in a guild after all or force you to use VOIP if you don't want to use it.
The negative reactions and lashing out at the OP ( outside his girl/dude comments ) around VOIP is really just absurd considering the voluntary nature of VOIP and the act of joining a guild.
Everyone in any MMO is free to form their own guilds and create their own rules in their guilds after all. Just as you are free to pick and choose which guild you join. If people feel that interviews are just to much well that is okay because no one is going to force you into one. Yet don't expect guilds that require you to do a interview or use VOIP to cater to you at all.
Some of us after all prefer interviews over blindly inviting random people who might cause trouble and end up being a detriment to our guilds. Some of us also enjoy the benefits that VOIP offers over any sort of negatives that some may draw around it's use.
The same can be said to go the opposite way as well for guilds that prohibit and refuse the use of VOIP. Those looking to join such guilds and who want to push the use of VOIP into these guilds should not become upset if they are rejected in the end.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I think voice is crucial for pvp,unless you are just solo ganking low levels or something.
Also,about taking raids too serious, i don't buy that at all.
Raiding and Pvp is what end game is all about and i believe using voice is crucial for both.
I think it has nothing to do with taking playing too serious,
it's just about communicating easier,especially when it helps everyone else in the guild.
See the highlighted words? Your opinion does not make something right.Alot of guilds in different games do interviews, it does not require voice chat to do so.
Have you considered the fact that alot of girl/women gamers do not want everyone to know they are female because they don't want 12 year old hormonal rejects PMing them for cybor the whole fucking time?
And as far as your argument about raiding requiring voice, sorry to inform you but we've all been raiding for years just fine without it in every game out there.
You want your guild to require voice? Then start your own guild and tell them your requirements for getting in. Good luck with the little guild you manage to scrape up.
9 pages of non stop flaming... it's time to stop. I apologize as well.
Ah I get you. You were comparing yourself to yourself prior to having voip options, not compared to those who choose not to use it. My apologies.
I noticed this a lot too through the different guilds I played in. The elite guilds I played in however, were efficient with or without voice chat. The voice chat also had relatively no impact on success rate for the experienced groups I was in. I do, however, see the advantage of it for a group of lemmings that aren't familiar with what they need to be doing... unfortunately, there are a lot of these types in MMORPGs especially in end-game raiding... For some reason some people are especially keen on playing games in fast forward and never learn how to play in teams/raids without assistance.
I was a raid leader for years... I learned to type very fast, considering when I started vent / teamspeak were not well known or used. People whom paid attention easily followed the raid commands and we were never wiped because of inefficient commands or because we didn't have chat... The only time we were ever wiped was the result of some moron not paying attention, or whom felt it was important to leave the computer mid raid (bio, food, door, etc.)...
Voice Chat is a great advantage in PvP, coordinated attacks and strategies are much better passed... in PvP you have to think on the fly... In PvM, Voice chat is not needed for good players. PvM encounters are fairly well scripted and easily learned and repeated. In fact, I think Voice Chat drags down the IQ of players as they rarely learn what to do and just wait for their lemming moment.
With the introduction of Vent/TeamSpeak in different guilds I was in, as a vent / teamspeak user I noticed there definitely was a division within the guilds between the users and the non-users.. The two groups didn't interact much for obvious reasons. The Voice users only seemed to talk in voice chat. The Guild Chat in game went fairly silent. The Voice users tended to only team with other voice users.
In the end it's probably better for a guild or organization to choose to either be Voice Chat Only or Voice Chat for Raid Only or No Voice Chat. In 6 years of guild leadership, It's only worked to be a devisive instrument that shreds the guild/org into two mini-groups.
I personally would not choose a Voice Chat Interview guild for myself. For one, I am not buying a microphone just to get into a guild. For two, I'm a highly skilled player, experienced leader, and friendly giving player...
Some people take these games a little too far... both in terms of caring what sex the person on the other computer is (relationships)... or replacing real-life friends with online friends... or replacing real-life responsibilities with online responsibilities... It's supposed to be about fun / entertainment... All in all, it's a little spooky, how far some people take these things...
Really so are you saying that he would not be able to create a large guild if he required the use of VOIP? I got to tell you that I've know some very large guilds that had VOIP as a guild policy and required the use of VOIP even if it's just merely requesting that players use it to listen in on raids.
Also why do you guys always assume that only 12 year old children use VOIP? From my own experience with every guild I've been in that used VOIP there has always been a age limit of 18-22+ years of age. What is up with that stereotype?
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I've seen this too. I couldn't agree more.
screw you all.
I think red is better than blue so it is and you're all wrong if you don't agree. < - - When I see everyone expressing viewpoints back and fourth that is what I see. People are trying to defend an opinion which is fine in and of itself but dont express it as fact.
The truth is there are young and old, male and female, and diversity all over the map. You are never going to reach consensus. My OPINION is voice chat is complete crap and has ruined socialized gaming for me. I share the setiment that I don't want to hear all the people I associate wtih in a video game.
I however, am mature enough to understand that this is my opinion. I also have the opinion that WoW can be a bicycle with training wheels for MMO newbs and generally brings out the worst ideas in gaming. Pop culture has a way of making everything generic and systematic and no, I dont want irl touching on my fantasy play.
/end my opinion
Now I want you to instead of going to a club, go to a chat room and then after chatting with people there for 5 or 10 minutes tell me if you would like to spend more time with them. Bet you can't do it or at the very least it would be difficult. You simply can't get to know someone very well chatting online with them in 5 or 10 minutes. It's impossible. But talk to that person 5 or 10 minutes, even if it's not face to face and you'll know pretty much whether it's someone you want to spend more time with. And that's all you're trying to do.
I'm 43, so don't even pretend to talk to me like I'm some 16 yr old that's never experienced anything. I have 5 children and 2 grand kids. I've been married, divorced and remarried. I've seen one sister bury her husband from a gunshot wound and another lose one to cancer. I have a 40 hour a week job and play WoW because frankly I find television boring, I'd rather spend my time online with friends. I won't pretend to know what you have experienced in life, don't pretend to know what I have.
You apparently saw what you wanted to see in my post.
1) I never said joining a guild wasn't like joining a recreation group of some sort. I actually agree. What I don't understand is why you would interview for such a thing. What, you mean to tell me that grouping with a person a few times isn't enough to see if someone fits the mold for your guild? I bet you wish you could sit the potentional recruit on a chair with a hot light over his head. Play a little "good cop/bad cop" with you and your guildies dragging out information ranging from play times, guild loyalty, what coast they live on, how long his average bathroom break is when he plays, etc etc.
2) I never said or acted like guilds were only for raiding. IMO guilds are for making new friends, doing quests together, having a few laughs and so on. Helping each other out is also a big plus. When guilds recruit you take the good with the bad. You recruit 10 in a week and maybe 2-3 weeks down the road 4-5+ have decide to make your guild their new home for a time. For people it's the same way as you join different guilds and some fit what you're looking for and some don't so you leave. I'm not going to sell my soul to some guild gestapo to have a good time.
3) That going to the chat room comment really didn't make a whole lot of sense so I'll reply with what I think you were getting at. There is a vast difference between a "chat room" and a "night club" Online people can paint a picture of whoever they want to be, in person they can do the same to a lesser degree (it depends on a) how smart they are or b) how dumb you are) Back to my grouping example. If I've run a few quests with someone and I enjoy their company, I friend list them. If I group a few more times and we grow to be friends online I inquire about their guild or perhaps try to draw them into mine. Tell me, whats so wrong with that? You can type, voice chat or whatever and that person can sit there and pretty much say whatever you want to hear. You tell me which is the better way to judge a person's character (as in morals, presonality, etc etc) Yeah, that's what I thought.
4)I don't know where your little personal bio fit into all of this. You tried to make a point but it was a bit melodramtic. I think you're insinuating that I'm some punk kid, blah blah blah. I'm 35, divorced, about to get married again, I have a kid, I saw 3 combat operations all over the world in my 6 years in the USMC. I work 50+ hours a week as a union carpenter and I play because my roots go back to gaming from the days of the old atari and D&D before it was in hard cover books. My post earlier was directed at giving someone else a little perspective. I felt he is taking this MMO thing a little too seriously and missing out . Sorta like how you took a simple post a little too seriously. You tell me to get a grip, whelp, I'm telling you to lighten up there Sunshine.
You're obviously one of those people who just doesn't get "it" and you'll never get "it" I'm done bantaring back and forth. Get your last word, do what you gotta do. Walk away thinking "ha I showed him" Whatever.