Well, I've been proven wrong. I failed to do my research and the fans of Darkfall have proven me wrong. There are countless videos of Darkfall that show combat in all it's glory, just none with a working GUI. I asked about proof that the GUI is working and I get a link to a screenshot that almost reminded me of UO, if thats a good thing. Still haven't seen a video with a working GUI. Now you tell me that beta has been delayed 3 times for close to 2 years now because of bugs? Why would you release beta info if it was buggy? Does that make any sense to you at all? Of course it does, your a fan. From 2001 to 2003 Razorwax was a small team operation in a basement, where kids around a table playing D&D kept having a conversation about making the ultimate MMO. They didn't actually do anything, they just kept talking about it for 2 years. Now, we have a Greece based 30 man operation in an actual office. Everyone has been working hard and doing their best to meet milestones. Hmm, in the 2nd to last update on their official forums, they talked about things they are still working on. 1) Beta - Overall we're working on the beta process as you know. This is infinitely more complicated to set up than just getting the game online and letting people in to play it. Sometimes I wonder if even the hardcore gamers understand what's involved especially when people keep asking for the specific beta date.
2) GUI - There's also some GUI work having to do with city building, and parties.
3) World Building - On world-building we're finishing up the Mirdain areas and working on clan city concerns. World-building also needs to create extras for all of the quests which are being implemented as we speak. Right now we're working on the human quests by using our quest building tool, using the world-builder to add the extras, and then using a testing tool which allows us to test that the quests work properly before beta. 4) Monster AI and NPC Guard AI - We're working through some issues with flying monster AI, and moving on to sea monsters. Guard AI in practice presents minor issues: As things stand right now, your AI guard race depends on the territory you build on so if you build a clan city in ork territory, the guards will be orks. The orkish guards will not attack the human clan members, but they currently attack all human visitors to the town based on racial enmity. Mercenaries have always presented such problems throughout history but we're probably going to make some changes here. 5) Graphics - There is some quality control being done on the terrain, fixing various minor bugs and there has been a major update to the terrain textures again and I must say there is a dramatic improvement to it. 6) New Positions - We're hiring a QA lead to formalize our QA process, we're looking for yet another Game Logic programmer, we've been outsourcing some secondary art tasks out, and we've also re-hired Nick, a very talented artist, who had taken a short break. We're also in the search for another good world-builder to help with cleaning up quests. The last statement in the update is what made me chuckle.
I'll stop here because I need to get back to work, although I could go on and on with the thousands of details we're working on at the moment - you get the idea. Yes, I get the idea that after 4 years, you still have a crapload of programming, bugs and implementations. You even played the BETA due in summer of 2007 card again. Thats right folks, I'm positive this game exists, cause 30 people are still working on it to this day. It exists because 30 plus however more they decide to hire will be working on it in 2008. It will always exist because people are working on it. Claiming your delays on the fact you want to release a finished product is awesome, I'm in support of that 110%. I'm just not willing to believe the game exists because this reminds me too much of Mourning and Dark and Light. I'm not saying fans can't hope, cause even I have hope. That however doesn't change reality which is, the game is nowhere near release after 4 years and I'm tired of "Beta Soon" being thrown around 3+ times in 2 years, while they counter it's delays with, BETA wasn't ready.
There isnt a video with a GUI to my knowledge though there are screenshots with it.
Now i didnt say it was BECAUSE of the bugs it was merely an example it seems you people cant seem to tell the difference. It could be for another reason they came across but idk the specifics i just take what i'm given and use it.
I suppose thats good enough to get the point across about the lack of work. Then yes they moved to greece.
Those "thousands" of details could be anything. Could be them just tuning something up that could only take a few mins. Of course thats more than likely an exaggeration. So to be honest the time it takes is still unknown it could take weeks but the summer isnt over. There is still 2 months of it left alot of worked can probably be done in that time.
4-5 years is a normal development time for a game. They didnt promise that beta was going to happen they said they might to get your hopes up on that is a bit premature. Maybe they were going to have beta in 2005 but wanted the game completely finished so they canceled it and started working on it again.
Fact: Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning had registered names and that doesnt change the fact that their list of feature was a lie and in the case of Mourning, it was vaporware (never really released), it was just huge scams with subpar games and lying advertisement. I dont know where comes your blind faith in Darkfall... but i surely wont fall for it, i hope i m wrong, but there is too many similarities.
So a couple of games give bad reputations for a genre and then darkfall is automatically is trash? Generalizations arent always true so thats not a good basis for an argument.
Fact: Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning had registered names and that doesnt change the fact that their list of feature was a lie and in the case of Mourning, it was vaporware (never really released), it was just huge scams with subpar games and lying advertisement. I dont know where comes your blind faith in Darkfall... but i surely wont fall for it, i hope i m right, but there is too many similarities.
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOTvaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
I dont get it? This is good news.....right? All DF "fans" just want the game sometime in the future. Thats all. We all know you dont need to release a MMO today with all promised features. But i sure DF will manage to make it. That update gave more information then a update in a long time.
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
The graphics dont look to bad if you look at the graphical update. They also said their screenshots were in medium quality but im not sure about the recent ones.
Look at this type of game. It has almost anysort of playstyle you want. With something of this magnitude its kinda hard to imagine that it will come out with only 4 years of development. I would expect it would take a lot more with so many features.
Your right no outside source can say if it is but they also cant say it isnt close to finishing. The public doesnt really know but from the information they've given us they are going smoothly. Of course since their only ones with the knowledge of how complete it is you have to trust their word or your own. Which seems a little idiotic since you have no clue about it.
They say they hope to have it out. Perhaps their lying or perhaps their were some complications with the code they were wrighting. A game this complicated is going to have to have alot of work to be done if they want it to be the way they said it is.
Well you can think that but do u honestly know? No you can just generalize and make assumptions but its your choice.
Well Questionable, that's pretty much where we stand. Neither side can prove anything because Aventurine is so damn tight lipped about the game. I guess it's not truely accurate to claim vaporware, even if based on past events. For all I know, BETA could be coming, but if BETA fails to come out this year, I'm gonna call Aventurine's bluff.
Yes pretty much its a standstill. I personally wish it would come this summer but sometimes shit happens. eh well as always only time will tell.
I dont get it? This is good news.....right? All DF "fans" just want the game sometime in the future. Thats all. We all know you dont need to release a MMO today with all promised features. But i sure DF will manage to make it. That update gave more information then a update in a long time.
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
This is were sadly the fan-bots get lost, they don't understand this statement, refuse to acknowledge it or just say your wrong. But I am right there with you, enough of the charades.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I dont get it? This is good news.....right? All DF "fans" just want the game sometime in the future. Thats all. We all know you dont need to release a MMO today with all promised features. But i sure DF will manage to make it. That update gave more information then a update in a long time.
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
This is were sadly the fan-bots get lost, they don't understand this statement, refuse to acknowledge it or just say your wrong. But I am right there with you, enough of the charades.
What the part of darkfall not releasing? Its POSSIBLE because anything is possible but its very unlikely that its vaporware.
To be honest, this complete discussion is completely irrelevant.
Just wait until beta arrives and the game release, and everyone will see then what a game darkfall is. They dont want our money like Mourning or DnL, so where is the problem, to wait until then?
It is a fact, and it was always a fact, that you only know how good a game really is, when you play it... and it is the same with darkfall and any other game out there, from a independent developer or a major company.(or do you really believe this public relation bullshit from WAR? Or did you believed it for WoW? WoW lied a lot, they promised a lot of other things.. heroclasses? or what not.)
I think darkfall exist, i have really no doubt on it.. but that is completely irrelevant, too. Because it can have all the promised features, and can be nevertheless a buggy, laggy, crap game. Or it can be that game we hope it is, and then we will most probably play it a very long time. But we have to play it before we can really judge what a beast Darkfall is. I will wait as long as it may take, well.. it is not really a waste of time, and there is no other game worth playin. So what? And if there would be another game.. i would play this as long as it take to release Darkfall and check it out bymyself.. but there isnt.
This discussion would have at least a little bit of usefulness, if the darkfall devs want our money, and a few would warn people, like in the case of DnL or Mourning.. but THIS IS NOT THE CASE! They never asked for our money. So damn.. just wait and see what will happen.
And it could be even the case, that we do not need to wait as long as i think(i personally think at least 1 year+ before release)
To be honest, this complete discussion is completely irrelevant. Just wait until beta arrives and the game release, and everyone will see then what a game darkfall is. They dont want our money like Mourning or DnL, so where is the problem, to wait until then? It is a fact, and it was always a fact, that you only know how good a game really is, when you play it... and it is the same with darkfall and any other game out there, from a independent developer or a major company.(or do you really believe this public relation bullshit from WAR? Or did you believed it for WoW? WoW lied a lot, they promised a lot of other things.. heroclasses? or what not.) I think darkfall exist, i have really no doubt on it.. but that is completely irrelevant, too. Because it can have all the promised features, and can be nevertheless a buggy, laggy, crap game. Or it can be that game we hope it is, and then we will most probably play it a very long time. But we have to play it before we can really judge what a beast Darkfall is. I will wait as long as it may take, well.. it is not really a waste of time, and there is no other game worth playin. So what? And if there would be another game.. i would play this as long as it take to release Darkfall and check it out bymyself.. but there isnt. This discussion would have at least a little bit of usefulness, if the darkfall devs want our money, and a few would warn people, like in the case of DnL or Mourning.. but THIS IS NOT THE CASE! They never asked for our money. So damn.. just wait and see what will happen. And it could be even the case, that we do not need to wait as long as i think(i personally think at least 1 year+ before release)
Yep only time will tell how good it is i just like to debate thats all.
Fact: Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning had registered names and that doesnt change the fact that their list of feature was a lie and in the case of Mourning, it was vaporware (never really released), it was just huge scams with subpar games and lying advertisement. I dont know where comes your blind faith in Darkfall... but i surely wont fall for it, i hope i m right, but there is too many similarities.
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOTvaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
You are absolutely right, after being one of the "pioneer" idiots from DnL, i just cant trust a game with those supposedly feature, with so much "potential" (i hate that word), and with so little to show for it.... I hope Aventurine proves me wrong, but i wont put my hands on the fire for them.
Dude you need to check your eyes for colorblindness, that was pretty awful to read.
Yes, they have used the beta word way too much. No, they are no trying to scam you or any investors. They have a 27 million loan now and they are still around developing their game. Why would I want to know what AshenTemper think ? Does he have inside information from Aventurine or is he as uninformed as you are ?
Sorry, I didn't realize my post needed directions. See the very top where I state the following is an excerpt from an interview? Ok, now see the paragraph sections that are in italic? Yeah, thats the Inn terrr viewww. Now, notice how I highlighted different sections of the Inn terrr viewww? I thought it would be easier for people to correlate those sections with my individual responses below the Inn terrr viewww. Notice how my responses match the color of the sections of the Inn terrr viewww that I'm discussing?
Call me colorblind or call yourself an idiot, I really don't care.
As for my reference to AshenTemper. I was trying to make the point that he has in fact gone through the very trials and tribulations that Aventurine claim to be experiencing. Except for the minor detail that his game actually launched without continuous delays for years. So yeah, he may have some insight into this line of bullshit coming from Aventurine that fanbois fail to acknowledge.
The fact of the matter is, you don't seem to understand. Beta has been thrown around for years and it's still nowhere in sight. The game has no actual footage showing combat, GUI or anything. That's called faith in a game that has failed to prove itself to the public, which is also known as vaporware.
Yeah I get you tried to use colors to referer to different parts of the text. But you kind of fall on your face when you fail to do it correctly.
red - something about beta
brown - your whiny comment
So yeah, i rather call you colorblind or trying to be more clever than you can pull off.
And yeah, as commented before...unless Ashen had the same investors and resources, developed a game with the same features at the same scope or even lived in the same country as Aventurine is, his guess would be as worthless as mine.
Edit: And yeah, I use "yeah" way too much
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Fact: Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning had registered names and that doesnt change the fact that their list of feature was a lie and in the case of Mourning, it was vaporware (never really released), it was just huge scams with subpar games and lying advertisement. I dont know where comes your blind faith in Darkfall... but i surely wont fall for it, i hope i m right, but there is too many similarities.
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOTvaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
You are absolutely right, after being one of the "pioneer" idiots from DnL, i just cant trust a game with those supposedly feature, with so much "potential" (i hate that word), and with so little to show for it.... I hope Aventurine proves me wrong, but i wont put my hands on the fire for them.
It's like blaming all girls you meet for the faults of your ex-gilrfriend(s). It's both unfair to those you meet and will probably leave you alone or playing with substandard games/Girls
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
It's like blaming all girls you meet for the faults of your ex-gilrfriend(s). It's both unfair to those you meet and will probably leave you alone or playing with substandard games/Girls
Or you could spin off in a different direction, such as. Hey, my last 2 girlfriends DnL and Mourning lied to me. I noticed Aventurine is feeding me the same old crap women think men want to hear, maybe Aventurine is lying too. No one is blaming Aventurine for the DnL and Mourning failures. People are just comparing to how similar all 3 companies are in terms of secrecy and the bait and switch tactics, specifically the BETA.
We can sit here all day and play this broken record debate. You can tell me Darkfalls exists and will launch till your blue in the face. I'll agree with you once they actually follow through with a BETA. Stated this a 1000 times already, almost 2 years and 3 false alarms on BETA and were now expecting to see a BETA in the summer of 2007. If Aventurine doesn't follow through with a BETA in 2007. On January 1st, 2008, I'm going to their official website forums and call their bluff, ok?
I agree, the devs of DF isn't genious marketeers. They have admitted as much themselves. But I rather have a crappy marketing campagin and a geat game than the opposite. That said, talking about beta isn't the same as setting a beta date. They haven't set 3 beta dates and then removed them the last 2 years ? In that case I want the links because I don't believe you.
If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Or you could spin off in a different direction, such as. Hey, my last 2 girlfriends DnL and Mourning lied to me. I noticed Aventurine is feeding me the same old crap women think men want to hear, maybe Aventurine is lying too. No one is blaming Aventurine for the DnL and Mourning failures. People are just comparing to how similar all 3 companies are in terms of secrecy and the bait and switch tactics, specifically the BETA. We can sit here all day and play this broken record debate. You can tell me Darkfalls exists and will launch till your blue in the face. I'll agree with you once they actually follow through with a BETA. Stated this a 1000 times already, almost 2 years and 3 false alarms on BETA and were now expecting to see a BETA in the summer of 2007. If Aventurine doesn't follow through with a BETA in 2007. On January 1st, 2008, I'm going to their official website forums and call their bluff, ok?
I agree, the devs of DF isn't genious marketeers. They have admitted as much themselves. But I rather have a crappy marketing campagin and a geat game than the opposite. That said, talking about beta isn't the same as setting a beta date. They haven't set 3 beta dates and then removed them the last 2 years ? In that case I want the links because I don't believe you.
If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
Oh, how about I copy and paste a direct comment of your knowledge of Darkfalls beta? Would that suffice? as I really don't feel like searching for links on information you already seem to know.
The following was originally posted by you in another thread...
About beta;
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
Forgive me for jumping the gun, but the 3rd failed beta attempt is the summer of 2007. Why? Cause summer = June, July and August and if you honestly think you can sit there and tell me Darkfall BETA is coming out next month, let alone this year, go right ahead. I'll be seeing you on January 1st, 2008 on their official forums to discredit the game once and for all.
Glad you had this info Rhoklaw, this is what we are talking about the constant spin. In this we refer to DnL and Mourning for doing similar spins. Funny too, I think Roklaw was one to defend DnL in it's day and I was one to bash that after being burned by Mourning. Funny how after certain people get burned , they are more cautious about things like this.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Or you could spin off in a different direction, such as. Hey, my last 2 girlfriends DnL and Mourning lied to me. I noticed Aventurine is feeding me the same old crap women think men want to hear, maybe Aventurine is lying too. No one is blaming Aventurine for the DnL and Mourning failures. People are just comparing to how similar all 3 companies are in terms of secrecy and the bait and switch tactics, specifically the BETA. We can sit here all day and play this broken record debate. You can tell me Darkfalls exists and will launch till your blue in the face. I'll agree with you once they actually follow through with a BETA. Stated this a 1000 times already, almost 2 years and 3 false alarms on BETA and were now expecting to see a BETA in the summer of 2007. If Aventurine doesn't follow through with a BETA in 2007. On January 1st, 2008, I'm going to their official website forums and call their bluff, ok?
I agree, the devs of DF isn't genious marketeers. They have admitted as much themselves. But I rather have a crappy marketing campagin and a geat game than the opposite. That said, talking about beta isn't the same as setting a beta date. They haven't set 3 beta dates and then removed them the last 2 years ? In that case I want the links because I don't believe you.
If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
Oh, how about I copy and paste a direct comment of your knowledge of Darkfalls beta? Would that suffice? as I really don't feel like searching for links on information you already seem to know.
The following was originally posted by you in another thread...
About beta;
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
Forgive me for jumping the gun, but the 3rd failed beta attempt is the summer of 2007. Why? Cause summer = June, July and August and if you honestly think you can sit there and tell me Darkfall BETA is coming out next month, let alone this year, go right ahead. I'll be seeing you on January 1st, 2008 on their official forums to discredit the game once and for all.
No actually summer ends september 23 if im not mistaken. The solistices and equinoxes determine the season not a school calendar. So that gives it 2 more months. So thats quite a fair amount of time.
God only knows why you want Darkfall to fail, all i know is that if it fails then 99% of hope for the MMO market in my eyes is gone. so let us prey that it doesn't follow their path.
God only knows why you want Darkfall to fail, all i know is that if it fails then 99% of hope for the MMO market in my eyes is gone. so let us prey that it doesn't follow their path.
I never said I wanted the game to fail, I'm just trying to help set standards. I get crap all the time for defending SOE by people who say they are boycotting SOE to help set certain MMO standards. I guess thats all I'm doing here. I don't care if it takes a company 10 years to push out a quality MMO, just stop lying to everyone and be honest.
Otherwise, you'll have games that everyone thought was legit, but was nothing more then a scam taking our money. I'm not saying Aventurine is trying to do that, simply because the game hasn't even BETA tested. If and when this game BETA's, I'll leave it alone, but until then, they either need to stop giving false information and just work on the game or learn how to market properly.
Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix. You people still dont understand that the devs are people and like people they make mistakes. Saying they blatently lied about it isnt something that you should assume especially with no proof backing it up.
Yes aventurine is making no money and their marketing needs some work but dont expect perfection in every aspect of the company. Once again mistakes are made. Does anyone hold you up on such high standards? More than likely not so why do the same to them? So your going to harrass aventurine till the throw out a product?
They may have been wrong but that doesnt mean they were intentionaly giving false information.
Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix. You people still dont understand that the devs are people and like people they make mistakes. Saying they blatently lied about it isnt something that you should assume especially with no proof backing it up.
Yes aventurine is making no money and their marketing needs some work but dont expect perfection in every aspect of the company. Once again mistakes are made. Does anyone hold you up on such high standards? More than likely not so why do the same to them? So your going to harrass aventurine till the throw out a product? They may have been wrong but that doesnt mean they were intentionaly giving false information.
3 times and your out, enough examples among many other quotes and post the Devs did that are here on this thread alone. No need to "research it" it's all on this thread now.
You can keep saying "you are all lying lying lying" like some kid on steroids, but whatever. You must be in politics, you definitely do a Bill Clinton imitation top notch!
Let's top all this off with your own quote "Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix."
"who say's they are not lying to push an alternative agenda for raising membership intrest in hopes of cashing in on some venture captial? "
Again we can go back and forth and I guess we will.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix. You people still dont understand that the devs are people and like people they make mistakes. Saying they blatently lied about it isnt something that you should assume especially with no proof backing it up.
Yes aventurine is making no money and their marketing needs some work but dont expect perfection in every aspect of the company. Once again mistakes are made. Does anyone hold you up on such high standards? More than likely not so why do the same to them? So your going to harrass aventurine till the throw out a product? They may have been wrong but that doesnt mean they were intentionaly giving false information.
3 times and your out, enough examples among many other quotes and post the Devs did that are here on this thread alone. No need to "research it" it's all on this thread now.
You can keep saying "you are all lying lying lying" like some kid on steroids, but whatever. You must be in politics, you definitely do a Bill Clinton imitation top notch!
Let's top all this off with your own quote "Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix."
"who say's they are not lying to push an alternative agenda for raising membership intrest in hopes of cashing in on some venture captial? "
Again we can go back and forth and I guess we will.
So you look only at a couple of things and make an assumption. Your very ignorant because you look at what only you believe and anything that is different you dont even acknowledge it.
You say they lie but with what? no proof. How are people supposed to believe something you say with out even backing it up? Your arguments are ridiculouos because your so narrow-minded.
Exactly. Your calling them liars with NO PROOF. They could have easly been mistaken because the more they code the more likely the code with what they written interferes with previous coding.
Your right who does? you? Through your own logic you've proven yourself untrustworthy.
If someone's been wrong before then their always wrong. That is the logic your going by. You've been proven wrong before. Your logic is flawed.
So you look only at a couple of things and make an assumption. Your very ignorant because you look at what only you believe and anything that is different you dont even acknowledge it.
You say they lie but with what? no proof. How are people supposed to believe something you say with out even backing it up? Your arguments are ridiculouos because your so narrow-minded. Exactly. Your calling them liars with NO PROOF. They could have easly been mistaken because the more they code the more likely the code with what they written interferes with previous coding. Your right who does? you? Through your own logic you've proven yourself untrustworthy. If someone's been wrong before then their always wrong. That is the logic your going by. You've been proven wrong before. Your logic is flawed.
LOL, wow man have you lost it or what? Anyone can look at both of these threads and see what you are ranting at this moment makes no sense, but continue, it's most entertaining!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
So you look only at a couple of things and make an assumption. Your very ignorant because you look at what only you believe and anything that is different you dont even acknowledge it.
You say they lie but with what? no proof. How are people supposed to believe something you say with out even backing it up? Your arguments are ridiculouos because your so narrow-minded. Exactly. Your calling them liars with NO PROOF. They could have easly been mistaken because the more they code the more likely the code with what they written interferes with previous coding. Your right who does? you? Through your own logic you've proven yourself untrustworthy. If someone's been wrong before then their always wrong. That is the logic your going by. You've been proven wrong before. Your logic is flawed.
LOL, wow man have you lost it or what? Anyone can look at both of these threads and see what you are ranting at this moment makes no sense, but continue, it's most entertaining!
Call it what you want but you still havent disproved any of my evidence.
Comments
I dont get it?
This is good news.....right?
All DF "fans" just want the game sometime in the future. Thats all.
We all know you dont need to release a MMO today with all promised features. But i sure DF will manage to make it.
That update gave more information then a update in a long time.
There isnt a video with a GUI to my knowledge though there are screenshots with it.
Now i didnt say it was BECAUSE of the bugs it was merely an example it seems you people cant seem to tell the difference. It could be for another reason they came across but idk the specifics i just take what i'm given and use it.
I suppose thats good enough to get the point across about the lack of work. Then yes they moved to greece.
Those "thousands" of details could be anything. Could be them just tuning something up that could only take a few mins. Of course thats more than likely an exaggeration. So to be honest the time it takes is still unknown it could take weeks but the summer isnt over. There is still 2 months of it left alot of worked can probably be done in that time.
4-5 years is a normal development time for a game. They didnt promise that beta was going to happen they said they might to get your hopes up on that is a bit premature. Maybe they were going to have beta in 2005 but wanted the game completely finished so they canceled it and started working on it again.
So a couple of games give bad reputations for a genre and then darkfall is automatically is trash? Generalizations arent always true so thats not a good basis for an argument.
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOT vaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
The one thing that get me calm about the DF release question is this:
The DF devs dont bent over for noone. They dont try to smoth talk anyone. When fans complain and whine......they just tell them to shut up
So when they dont try to satisfy us, i think they just want to work on the game untill its done.
If they tryed to make us happy every week by sayng good things or showing long ingame videos (Vanguard) I would be worried....
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
The graphics dont look to bad if you look at the graphical update. They also said their screenshots were in medium quality but im not sure about the recent ones.
Look at this type of game. It has almost anysort of playstyle you want. With something of this magnitude its kinda hard to imagine that it will come out with only 4 years of development. I would expect it would take a lot more with so many features.
Your right no outside source can say if it is but they also cant say it isnt close to finishing. The public doesnt really know but from the information they've given us they are going smoothly. Of course since their only ones with the knowledge of how complete it is you have to trust their word or your own. Which seems a little idiotic since you have no clue about it.
They say they hope to have it out. Perhaps their lying or perhaps their were some complications with the code they were wrighting. A game this complicated is going to have to have alot of work to be done if they want it to be the way they said it is.
Well you can think that but do u honestly know? No you can just generalize and make assumptions but its your choice.
Yes pretty much its a standstill. I personally wish it would come this summer but sometimes shit happens. eh well as always only time will tell.
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
This is were sadly the fan-bots get lost, they don't understand this statement, refuse to acknowledge it or just say your wrong. But I am right there with you, enough of the charades.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
IF Darkfall ever releases, it would be like Oblivion Online, just with outdated graphics. Me personally, I don't care about graphics, so that wouldn't bother me. The only reason I have doubts about the game is the constant back and forth bullshit about BETA and the fact that after 4 years, they still have a crapload of stuff to work on.
I don't want Darkfall to fail, I don't think anyone does. People like me are just tired of companies who advertise in this manner, which were Dark and Light and Mourning. Darkfall is nothing more then a promising MMO in the works, but there is no outside source that can prove its anywhere near finished or if the current game is even fully functional. They have kept the BETA charade going for almost 2 years on 3 separate occasions. You just have to understand, I personally get the feeling Aventurine has to keep up the illusion that the game will launch for some odd reason, whether its company motivation or retaining investor support. Yet in reality, the game is no where near ready for launch which reminds me of the Sigil - Microsoft - SOE fiasco.
This is were sadly the fan-bots get lost, they don't understand this statement, refuse to acknowledge it or just say your wrong. But I am right there with you, enough of the charades.
What the part of darkfall not releasing? Its POSSIBLE because anything is possible but its very unlikely that its vaporware.
To be honest, this complete discussion is completely irrelevant.
Just wait until beta arrives and the game release, and everyone will see then what a game darkfall is. They dont want our money like Mourning or DnL, so where is the problem, to wait until then?
It is a fact, and it was always a fact, that you only know how good a game really is, when you play it... and it is the same with darkfall and any other game out there, from a independent developer or a major company.(or do you really believe this public relation bullshit from WAR? Or did you believed it for WoW? WoW lied a lot, they promised a lot of other things.. heroclasses? or what not.)
I think darkfall exist, i have really no doubt on it.. but that is completely irrelevant, too. Because it can have all the promised features, and can be nevertheless a buggy, laggy, crap game. Or it can be that game we hope it is, and then we will most probably play it a very long time. But we have to play it before we can really judge what a beast Darkfall is. I will wait as long as it may take, well.. it is not really a waste of time, and there is no other game worth playin. So what? And if there would be another game.. i would play this as long as it take to release Darkfall and check it out bymyself.. but there isnt.
This discussion would have at least a little bit of usefulness, if the darkfall devs want our money, and a few would warn people, like in the case of DnL or Mourning.. but THIS IS NOT THE CASE! They never asked for our money. So damn.. just wait and see what will happen.
And it could be even the case, that we do not need to wait as long as i think(i personally think at least 1 year+ before release)
Yep only time will tell how good it is i just like to debate thats all.
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOT vaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
You are absolutely right, after being one of the "pioneer" idiots from DnL, i just cant trust a game with those supposedly feature, with so much "potential" (i hate that word), and with so little to show for it.... I hope Aventurine proves me wrong, but i wont put my hands on the fire for them.
Sorry, I didn't realize my post needed directions. See the very top where I state the following is an excerpt from an interview? Ok, now see the paragraph sections that are in italic? Yeah, thats the Inn terrr viewww. Now, notice how I highlighted different sections of the Inn terrr viewww? I thought it would be easier for people to correlate those sections with my individual responses below the Inn terrr viewww. Notice how my responses match the color of the sections of the Inn terrr viewww that I'm discussing?Call me colorblind or call yourself an idiot, I really don't care.
As for my reference to AshenTemper. I was trying to make the point that he has in fact gone through the very trials and tribulations that Aventurine claim to be experiencing. Except for the minor detail that his game actually launched without continuous delays for years. So yeah, he may have some insight into this line of bullshit coming from Aventurine that fanbois fail to acknowledge.
The fact of the matter is, you don't seem to understand. Beta has been thrown around for years and it's still nowhere in sight. The game has no actual footage showing combat, GUI or anything. That's called faith in a game that has failed to prove itself to the public, which is also known as vaporware.
Yeah I get you tried to use colors to referer to different parts of the text. But you kind of fall on your face when you fail to do it correctly.
red - something about beta
brown - your whiny comment
So yeah, i rather call you colorblind or trying to be more clever than you can pull off.
And yeah, as commented before...unless Ashen had the same investors and resources, developed a game with the same features at the same scope or even lived in the same country as Aventurine is, his guess would be as worthless as mine.
Edit: And yeah, I use "yeah" way too much
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Are you arguing that Darkfall IS or IS NOT vaporware like Mourning or that it won't be an outdated, halfass release like Dark and Light?
Im pretty sure hes saying that if it isnt vaporware then its going to be a half-assed game.
You are absolutely right, after being one of the "pioneer" idiots from DnL, i just cant trust a game with those supposedly feature, with so much "potential" (i hate that word), and with so little to show for it.... I hope Aventurine proves me wrong, but i wont put my hands on the fire for them.
It's like blaming all girls you meet for the faults of your ex-gilrfriend(s). It's both unfair to those you meet and will probably leave you alone or playing with substandard games/Girls
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Or you could spin off in a different direction, such as. Hey, my last 2 girlfriends DnL and Mourning lied to me. I noticed Aventurine is feeding me the same old crap women think men want to hear, maybe Aventurine is lying too. No one is blaming Aventurine for the DnL and Mourning failures. People are just comparing to how similar all 3 companies are in terms of secrecy and the bait and switch tactics, specifically the BETA.
We can sit here all day and play this broken record debate. You can tell me Darkfalls exists and will launch till your blue in the face. I'll agree with you once they actually follow through with a BETA. Stated this a 1000 times already, almost 2 years and 3 false alarms on BETA and were now expecting to see a BETA in the summer of 2007. If Aventurine doesn't follow through with a BETA in 2007. On January 1st, 2008, I'm going to their official website forums and call their bluff, ok?
I agree, the devs of DF isn't genious marketeers. They have admitted as much themselves. But I rather have a crappy marketing campagin and a geat game than the opposite. That said, talking about beta isn't the same as setting a beta date. They haven't set 3 beta dates and then removed them the last 2 years ? In that case I want the links because I don't believe you.If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
I agree, the devs of DF isn't genious marketeers. They have admitted as much themselves. But I rather have a crappy marketing campagin and a geat game than the opposite. That said, talking about beta isn't the same as setting a beta date. They haven't set 3 beta dates and then removed them the last 2 years ? In that case I want the links because I don't believe you.If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
Oh, how about I copy and paste a direct comment of your knowledge of Darkfalls beta? Would that suffice? as I really don't feel like searching for links on information you already seem to know.
The following was originally posted by you in another thread...
About beta;
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Forgive me for jumping the gun, but the 3rd failed beta attempt is the summer of 2007. Why? Cause summer = June, July and August and if you honestly think you can sit there and tell me Darkfall BETA is coming out next month, let alone this year, go right ahead. I'll be seeing you on January 1st, 2008 on their official forums to discredit the game once and for all.
Glad you had this info Rhoklaw, this is what we are talking about the constant spin. In this we refer to DnL and Mourning for doing similar spins. Funny too, I think Roklaw was one to defend DnL in it's day and I was one to bash that after being burned by Mourning. Funny how after certain people get burned , they are more cautious about things like this.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
If setting up milestones for youself is going to make you feel better, I am happy for you. It's not going to influence the developmentspeed of the game though.
Oh, how about I copy and paste a direct comment of your knowledge of Darkfalls beta? Would that suffice? as I really don't feel like searching for links on information you already seem to know.
The following was originally posted by you in another thread...
About beta;
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Forgive me for jumping the gun, but the 3rd failed beta attempt is the summer of 2007. Why? Cause summer = June, July and August and if you honestly think you can sit there and tell me Darkfall BETA is coming out next month, let alone this year, go right ahead. I'll be seeing you on January 1st, 2008 on their official forums to discredit the game once and for all.
No actually summer ends september 23 if im not mistaken. The solistices and equinoxes determine the season not a school calendar. So that gives it 2 more months. So thats quite a fair amount of time.
God only knows why you want Darkfall to fail, all i know is that if it fails then 99% of hope for the MMO market in my eyes is gone. so let us prey that it doesn't follow their path.
Otherwise, you'll have games that everyone thought was legit, but was nothing more then a scam taking our money. I'm not saying Aventurine is trying to do that, simply because the game hasn't even BETA tested. If and when this game BETA's, I'll leave it alone, but until then, they either need to stop giving false information and just work on the game or learn how to market properly.
Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix. You people still dont understand that the devs are people and like people they make mistakes. Saying they blatently lied about it isnt something that you should assume especially with no proof backing it up.Yes aventurine is making no money and their marketing needs some work but dont expect perfection in every aspect of the company. Once again mistakes are made. Does anyone hold you up on such high standards? More than likely not so why do the same to them? So your going to harrass aventurine till the throw out a product?
They may have been wrong but that doesnt mean they were intentionaly giving false information.
3 times and your out, enough examples among many other quotes and post the Devs did that are here on this thread alone. No need to "research it" it's all on this thread now.
You can keep saying "you are all lying lying lying" like some kid on steroids, but whatever. You must be in politics, you definitely do a Bill Clinton imitation top notch!
Let's top all this off with your own quote "Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix."
"who say's they are not lying to push an alternative agenda for raising membership intrest in hopes of cashing in on some venture captial? "
Again we can go back and forth and I guess we will.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
3 times and your out, enough examples among many other quotes and post the Devs did that are here on this thread alone. No need to "research it" it's all on this thread now.
You can keep saying "you are all lying lying lying" like some kid on steroids, but whatever. You must be in politics, you definitely do a Bill Clinton imitation top notch!
Let's top all this off with your own quote "Who said they were lying? They could've made a mistake which they had to fix."
"who say's they are not lying to push an alternative agenda for raising membership intrest in hopes of cashing in on some venture captial? "
Again we can go back and forth and I guess we will.
So you look only at a couple of things and make an assumption. Your very ignorant because you look at what only you believe and anything that is different you dont even acknowledge it.You say they lie but with what? no proof. How are people supposed to believe something you say with out even backing it up? Your arguments are ridiculouos because your so narrow-minded.
Exactly. Your calling them liars with NO PROOF. They could have easly been mistaken because the more they code the more likely the code with what they written interferes with previous coding.
Your right who does? you? Through your own logic you've proven yourself untrustworthy.
If someone's been wrong before then their always wrong. That is the logic your going by. You've been proven wrong before. Your logic is flawed.
LOL, wow man have you lost it or what? Anyone can look at both of these threads and see what you are ranting at this moment makes no sense, but continue, it's most entertaining!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
LOL, wow man have you lost it or what? Anyone can look at both of these threads and see what you are ranting at this moment makes no sense, but continue, it's most entertaining!
Call it what you want but you still havent disproved any of my evidence.
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
So now your going to blatent lies? Well i hope that works out for you. Since you dont know what your takling about im done discussing this with you.