Call it what you want but you still havent disproved any of my evidence.
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
So now your going to blatent lies? Well i hope that works out for you. Since you dont know what your takling about im done discussing this with you.
Can we actually keep you on this word? I doubt it, if it was so easy to do so you would have left awhile ago. I stick here because you are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. I got an idea thou, get on your other account and go against me there. At least we can "act" like your someone with some lick of usefully information. Then I will just prove you wrong again.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Call it what you want but you still havent disproved any of my evidence.
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
So now your going to blatent lies? Well i hope that works out for you. Since you dont know what your takling about im done discussing this with you.
Can we actually keep you on this word? I doubt it, if it was so easy to do so you would have left awhile ago. I stick here because you are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. I got an idea thou, get on your other account and go against me there. At least we can "act" like your someone with some lick of usefully information. Then I will just prove you wrong again.
This is my real account and who says im wrong? you. Well your word doesnt mean much since you like to lie and cause misconeptions.
What has darkfall ever done to show anyone enough reason to follow the game with such blind devotion that anyone saying it won't release (with justified opinions) is wrong/a idiot.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
This is my real account and who says im wrong? you. Well your word doesnt mean much since you like to lie and cause misconeptions.
So your not done? Ahh I guess so, my words mean nothing , nothing at all, but alas here you are proving me wrong? Surrreee, ok lier lier pant's on fire! Now that I have stooped to your level we can continue.
You love to ignore everything but your own words, as I am not the only one on this thread nor did I start it, (However you act as I have) and to this point no, I am not the only one. You seem to be alone atm on your stance. Might I suggest running over to the official forums to get some of your fan-bots to hop aboard so I can have a real debate with someone who might actually have an intellectual discussion and not decay into nah nah nah name calling?
Originally posted by KhaelSan
What has darkfall ever done to show anyone enough reason to follow the game with such blind devotion that anyone saying it won't release (with justified opinions) is wrong/a idiot.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Mourning , DnL. Sure it can be done, it's been done. Repeat this all you like. Dosn't prove the fact that this company has cried wolf over and over and over again.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
Some money the company more than likely got have to scroll down to find it.
Now as for DnL it was and quote "... was released underdeveloped to retail...". Aventurine is a well funded company and has plenty of time so this wont be the case for DF.
As for Mourning I do not know why and am currently looking it up.
ok old screens and vids nothing new, but you love throwing in the financial part of this, Guess what I found the one mention of it here and here is the exact copy and paste of such...
Established in 1863, Lambadarios Law Offices has had an encouraging year advising Chandris Hotels on a bond loan to finance the construction of a new hotel in Thessaloniki for €40 million, acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank, and representing Proton Investment Bank on issuing a convertible bond loan through a private placement with an option to be traded through the Athens stock exchange. The firm also advised private equity group Group Notos Associates in its investment in Internet cafés in Greece, which involved a complex structure including the issue of a convertible bond loan and preference shares with a cumulative dividend. Maria Fronista is the key contact partner at the firm for finance matters.
Ok so now that this is shown let me show you what "converitble bond loan" means. I will quote some great sites that concern bonds etc, so in simple terms anyone can understand it...
Say you are in the grocery store with a friend on a Thursday afternoon and see something you need for your house; a broom for example. Although you get your paycheck the next day, you ask your shopping buddy to borrow a few dollars so you can purchase the broom now, in return for which you will not only pay them back tomorrow, but buy them dinner as well. Your friend, finding these terms acceptable, loans you the money and you purchase the item.
This is, in essence, what happens in the corporate world when a company issues bonds. Generally, as a business grows, it doesn't generate enough cash internally to pay for the supplies and equipment necessary to keep it growing. Because of this, most businesses have one of two options. They can either 1.) sell a portion of the company to the general public by issuing additional shares of stock, or they can 2.) issue bonds.
When a company issues bonds, it is borrowing money from investors in exchange for which it agrees to pay them interest at set intervals for a predetermined amount of time. In essence, it is the same thing as a mortgage only you, the investor, are the bank.
Now convertibles bonds possess both equity and bond characteristics, it's not surprising that they yield less than their issuer's straight bonds, but significantly more than their stocks' dividend. While convertibles are typically priced so that an investor would receive less than the full value of the underlying stock upon conversion, in return, the convertible investor earns a higher yield and has greater downside protection than an equity shareholder. In essence, the investor is "paid to wait," earning income until the bond matures or until—hopefully—a rising stock price positively affects the convertible bond's value.
So what does all of this mean? Exactly nothing, they filled to have bonds put out in hopes of investors buying into their buisness plan. Nothing here shows physical money being given. I had a company using bonds, I know how it works and the point before as it is now is this proves exactly nothing. The pics are old, the vids follow suite, the company has constantly cried wolf that their creditibilty is crap at this point. For many of us, we see vaporware for this very reason. Mourning and DnL are used in excample because both of those companies did the same "wolf" calling that now this company is doing.
So keep throwing these links in our faces, it still proves two things, jack and shit.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
ok old screens and vids nothing new, but you love throwing in the financial part of this, Guess what I found the one mention of it here and here is the exact copy and paste of such...
Established in 1863, Lambadarios Law Offices has had an encouraging year advising Chandris Hotels on a bond loan to finance the construction of a new hotel in Thessaloniki for €40 million, acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank, and representing Proton Investment Bank on issuing a convertible bond loan through a private placement with an option to be traded through the Athens stock exchange. The firm also advised private equity group Group Notos Associates in its investment in Internet cafés in Greece, which involved a complex structure including the issue of a convertible bond loan and preference shares with a cumulative dividend. Maria Fronista is the key contact partner at the firm for finance matters.
Ok so now that this is shown let me show you what "converitble bond loan" means. I will quote some great sites that concern bonds etc, so in simple terms anyone can understand it...
Say you are in the grocery store with a friend on a Thursday afternoon and see something you need for your house; a broom for example. Although you get your paycheck the next day, you ask your shopping buddy to borrow a few dollars so you can purchase the broom now, in return for which you will not only pay them back tomorrow, but buy them dinner as well. Your friend, finding these terms acceptable, loans you the money and you purchase the item.
This is, in essence, what happens in the corporate world when a company issues bonds. Generally, as a business grows, it doesn't generate enough cash internally to pay for the supplies and equipment necessary to keep it growing. Because of this, most businesses have one of two options. They can either 1.) sell a portion of the company to the general public by issuing additional shares of stock, or they can 2.) issue bonds.
When a company issues bonds, it is borrowing money from investors in exchange for which it agrees to pay them interest at set intervals for a predetermined amount of time. In essence, it is the same thing as a mortgage only you, the investor, are the bank.
Now convertibles bonds possess both equity and bond characteristics, it's not surprising that they yield less than their issuer's straight bonds, but significantly more than their stocks' dividend. While convertibles are typically priced so that an investor would receive less than the full value of the underlying stock upon conversion, in return, the convertible investor earns a higher yield and has greater downside protection than an equity shareholder. In essence, the investor is "paid to wait," earning income until the bond matures or until—hopefully—a rising stock price positively affects the convertible bond's value.
So what does all of this mean? Exactly nothing, they filled to have bonds put out in hopes of investors buying into their buisness plan. Nothing here shows physical money being given. I had a company using bonds, I know how it works and the point before as it is now is this proves exactly nothing. The pics are old, the vids follow suite, the company has constantly cried wolf that their creditibilty is crap at this point. For many of us, we see vaporware for this very reason. Mourning and DnL are used in excample because both of those companies did the same "wolf" calling that now this company is doing.
So keep throwing these links in our faces, it still proves two things, jack and shit.
yes but the fact that they are filling out bonds is enought to prove that they are working on something. Tell me why would someone fill out to get a loan when they have nothing to show? hmm? If you cant read between the lines then this is going to be long and boring.
yes but the fact that they are filling out bonds is enought to prove that they are working on something. If you cant read between the lines then this is going to be long and boring.
Are you seriously clueless? They have been attempting to raise funds for sometime now , while at the same time crying wolf to the fan base to keep them going. Read between the lines? Wow man , talk about stretching to look for something that is plainly obvious. I admire your devotion, I really do. But the facts are here and there is no need to "read between the lines" to see it. Reading between is a ploy of lawyers who like to throw in that catch 22 as it is so well known and the only way to catch those little notations is to go threw the document with a fine tooth comb to make sure your not being taken. This is far from such a posting or information that needs such an in depth review of what a bond is. Hopefully in time you will come to realize it.
Again we don't want a great concept like this to go vaporware, but we won't be fooled by cry wolf or links to nothing that counters all the wolf crying to begin with, just so a company can hold it's breath in hoping some investors will see a "following" that was mislead so they can show possible investors "hey we got an honest following, just look!"
If these Devs would have said " hey guys , we ran out of funds and we really need everyone to stick around and help us promote this so we can find more investment dollars" at least that would be honest and some would stay to help out. But alas no, it was cry wolf time and time again. What makes the difference between these two examples? Simple, don't lie to your fan-base , it will bite you in the ass. Then to continue to do so is just a slap in the face. So yea, vaporware. Why didn't they go the second rout? Simply because if they said that, they would have had at least an honest following, but it wouldn't be the numbers one can get by saying "Clan sign up for beta!" and that's just one excample.
PS. btw, now that you admit they are looking for funds, I rest my case on the whole they have 20+ mill and a 30 man crew.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
yes but the fact that they are filling out bonds is enought to prove that they are working on something. If you cant read between the lines then this is going to be long and boring.
Are you seriously clueless? They have been attempting to raise funds for sometime now , while at the same time crying wolf to the fan base to keep them going. Read between the lines? Wow man , talk about stretching to look for something that is plainly obvious. I admire your devotion, I really do. But the facts are here and there is no need to "read between the lines" to see it. Reading between is a ploy of lawyers who like to throw in that catch 22 as it is so well known and the only way to catch those little notations is to go threw the document with a fine tooth comb to make sure your not being taken. This is far from such a posting or information that needs such an in depth review of what a bond is. Hopefully in time you will come to realize it.
Again we don't want a great concept like this to go vaporware, but we won't be fooled by cry wolf or links to nothing that counters all the wolf crying to begin with, just so a company can hold it's breath in hoping some investors will see a "following" that was mislead so they can show possible investors "hey we got an honest following, just look!"
If these Devs would have said " hey guys , we ran out of funds and we really need everyone to stick around and help us promote this so we can find more investment dollars" at least that would be honest and some would stay to help out. But alas no, it was cry wolf time and time again. What makes the difference between these two examples? Simple, don't lie to your fan-base , it will bite you in the ass. Then to continue to do so is just a slap in the face. So yea, vaporware. Why didn't they go the second rout? Simply because if they said that, they would have had at least an honest following, but it wouldn't be the numbers one can get by saying "Clan sign up for beta!" and that's just one excample.
PS. btw, now that you admit they are looking for funds, I rest my case on the whole they have 20+ mill and a 30 man crew.
It said they filed for a loan and looking for more companines that invested in that bank i found few. It also states that around the time DF applied they invested into alot of greek companies. Seeing as how i can not find alot of companies that filed for that bank i think its more than likely they got the money.
This is all the PUBLIC knowledge we have about their financial transactions. They do private work bur for how much? im not sure but enough to keep this game going while hiring some new people. If this game was running out of money i think the first thing they'd is to NOT hire more people.
There's no need to argue about whether Darkfall will be released or not.
All we can do is wait and see - either it will be or it wont.
Even the developers themselves cannot guarantee it will be released; anything can happen.
But I sure hope it is released. We have enough unoriginal carebear fantasy "MMOG" garbage floating around already. So, I hope they don't feel pressured into watering Darkfall down to the point where it no longer offers anything worthwhile. Hopefully it is released just as intended and is successful.
That is what is important. And whether they ultimately fail or not, those experienced with MMOGs should encourage them along the way, no matter how long it takes.
NO ONE KNOWS! Not me, not you, not anyone outside the company. How many times has Aventurine canceled a BETA?
Twice so far and depending on what you consider summer, whether astronomical or temperature, soon to be three. How much money does Aventurine have in total assets?
I don't know and neither does anyone here. Only the people at Aventurine know. Does Aventurine know anything about marketing a game?
Obviously not as their history of marketing speaks for itself. Why do people criticize Darkfall so much?
Because it has become a trend for companies that advertise their product the way Aventurine has and still is to end up being corrupt, deceiving or in some cases, vaporware. Do you want Darkfall to fail?
No one wants it to fail, thats not even debatable subject. So why do you continuously attack the hope of the game to succeed?
To be honest, I have been on both ends of the spectrum in terms of MMO debates. I've defended when I should have attacked and attacked when I should have defended. It's my personal choice to call out any gaming company to prove their product as a viable game. How do you think Mourning and DnL ended up the way they did? Because fans of MMOs decided to take a stand and not put up with the bullshit gaming companies seem to think they can get away with. Darkfall is no exception and a prime example of what a gaming company should not practice in the MMO community.
Since DF filed for a huge loan wouldnt that indicate that they were making something?
Also since they havent found a suitiable publisher they are likely going to self-publish wouldnt that take alot of money? Since they have to buy the servers, maintance, etc. Wouldnt it take alot of servers to have 10k players on one continent? Since this game has many different players from different countries wont they have to set up multiple servers in different locations and keep them maintained?
Wouldnt that take a lot of money to create and upkeep?
I'm asking you this question because you seem to be the most reasonable person i've seen.
What has darkfall ever done to show anyone enough reason to follow the game with such blind devotion that anyone saying it won't release (with justified opinions) is wrong/a idiot.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Did i say that they shouldn't like the game? Did i say this game doesn't exist, did i say this game this is going to suck?
I merely am saying, the amount of blind devotion to this game(to the point where its toted by some as the best thing in existence) is just laughable.
I merely am saying to not count your chickens before they are hatched.
1. And theres still no beta, no REAL gameplay footage, and no third party experiences with the game.
2. Yep, but have they ever showed us something that needs a real legitimate client, server, and long term appeal? No. The few videos they have released are taken from FAKE pvp encounters set up for the video, boats placed next to each other and begin to shoot. Show me a video of someone who has sit down with the game, and played it in it's entirely and true form, rather then a few encounters. It's easy to take in game footage and edit it together to make a great video, i merely want some REAL footage. And don't count that 2003 alpha video... that is so very primitive and horrible, that if that WAS a legitimate gameplay clip that is still valid to this day, then it will never reach 200 copies sold.
Again i wasn't saying it's a scam of a game, but merely saying, could i get such dedicated fans without really giving them anything but teasers? Screenshots and clips of combat are something you should be seeing from pre alpha/alpha builds, if you look up information they planned on betas YEARS ago, the fact they 2 years ago, even THOUGHT about a beta that year, means they should have been close to a build, a delay is expected, but 2 years later and STILL no hint at a actual beta date?
This game may be great wonderful and awesome, but ideas alone shouldn't be enough for a rabid fanbase of this game. All the defenders need to realize that the people attacking it DO have points.
And i still don't understand why you care so much if ppl follow it? I've said that 2-3 times today, I'll repeat it: those who follow the game haven't spend, and won't spend, anything more than time. Except if its something else.
What has darkfall ever done to show anyone enough reason to follow the game with such blind devotion that anyone saying it won't release (with justified opinions) is wrong/a idiot.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Did i say that they shouldn't like the game? Did i say this game doesn't exist, did i say this game this is going to suck?
I merely am saying, the amount of blind devotion to this game(to the point where its toted by some as the best thing in existence) is just laughable.
I merely am saying to not count your chickens before they are hatched.
1. And theres still no beta, no REAL gameplay footage, and no third party experiences with the game.
2. Yep, but have they ever showed us something that needs a real legitimate client, server, and long term appeal? No. The few videos they have released are taken from FAKE pvp encounters set up for the video, boats placed next to each other and begin to shoot. Show me a video of someone who has sit down with the game, and played it in it's entirely and true form, rather then a few encounters. It's easy to take in game footage and edit it together to make a great video, i merely want some REAL footage. And don't count that 2003 alpha video... that is so very primitive and horrible, that if that WAS a legitimate gameplay clip that is still valid to this day, then it will never reach 200 copies sold.
Again i wasn't saying it's a scam of a game, but merely saying, could i get such dedicated fans without really giving them anything but teasers? Screenshots and clips of combat are something you should be seeing from pre alpha/alpha builds, if you look up information they planned on betas YEARS ago, the fact they 2 years ago, even THOUGHT about a beta that year, means they should have been close to a build, a delay is expected, but 2 years later and STILL no hint at a actual beta date?
This game may be great wonderful and awesome, but ideas alone shouldn't be enough for a rabid fanbase of this game. All the defenders need to realize that the people attacking it DO have points.
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?
2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them.
fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you.
Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?
2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them. fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you. Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?
2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them. fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you. Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.
Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that?
Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true.
So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail.
Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move.
What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game.
lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources.
2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use.
Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in.
Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game.
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake.
By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players.
Now moving on to baseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes.
No, it's not needed to have monthly video updates or bi-weekly state of the game updates. It's just standard practice that most companies have adhered to in the past. I'm no longer debating if Darkfall is vaporware or not, I believe it is and will continue to believe that until an actual BETA occurs. It doesn't bother me and I'm not pissed at Aventurine for being so quiet, because frankly, it just increases my doubts that the game actually exists. Aventurine is not a bad company and they truely haven't done anything wrong to warrant bad press. I just feel that if their standard business practices ever became the norm, we'd probably see a lot of shit hitting fan scenarios between gaming companies and MMO fans.
Yes they havent been the most informative of the bunch but i still think this game is coming out. The only question i have is if they do it right or wrong. Well ill just have to wait a while.
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?
2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them. fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you. Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.
I honestly don't think wanting videos over 4 years after development starts is wanting to have my hand held Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that? I should have explained it better, I want to see someone actually playing the game as the game. And there are a ton of games that show this. Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true. So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail. I just meant i want to see a real fight start, and a real fight end, through the viewpoint of one player, rather then a in game cinematic. Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move. What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game. It'd be a beta, doing rollbacks are not detrimental since it's a beta and not the real game, you shouldn't expect to even keep the characters anyway. So they don't want it to be a bugfest in beta so they can spend their time fixing bugs? Talk about fanboy logic. lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources. But shouldn't they have known this prior to announcing the beta, they announce it and THEN discuss weither or not to have it? 2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use. But again i wasn't talking about releasing the game, Betas are buggy and unbalanced, betas are NOT a way for people to just play the game for free before it's released. But again Didn't they discuss it before they announced it? Did someone on their team just suddenly say It's beta time! It just doesn't make sense. If i was carving something from wood and then call my friend to tell him to come look at it, but when he arrives at the door i tell him i decided i didn't want to let people criticize it yet, and told him to go home, wouldn't that make me seem fickle? Especially if i did it before. Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in. Ya your right, this no name company is somehow going to manage to pull off a game that is bug free and fully developed when big, more talented, richer companies can't manage to do it. I'm sorry i was so confused. Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game. It's a mmorpg, it has sandbox features, but it's still a mmorpg it's not as if i'm comparing a steak to cake. If they are trying to stop the masses from getting into this game, and complaining about everything and stopping playing because of their design then maybe they are doing something wrong? What's wrong with betas? Whats wrong with inviting members of the media to play the game and write opinions, and post gameplay clips?
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake. Ya in this game i can loot people, and attack a fps view. This is something never done in video games before. It's totally unique By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players. A mmorpg NEVER adding new content, long delays between new content? Seriously is this your first mmorpg? A mmorpg should NEVER be done adding into itself untill the game is completely dead in the water. And even if there was that glitch, that's what betas are for. If they wait untill EVERYTHING they want for release is in before they start betas(even closed ones) then it means each piece will be tested less individually. Now moving on tobaseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people. Why so against having the game shown to the media or through conventions? Because they can't afford conventions? They don't want people to see how their game is. That's the only reason it hasn't been shown in a playable build in any way shape or form when it should be entering beta.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes. A beta is not a release, and to ensure a game is not bugged, it's best to test it as much as possible, these developers are not gods amongst men who are better then every other developer out there. Testing out features, balance, content, reputation, building things, destroying things, fighting in certain areas, looting in certain areas. There are a ton of things to test, just because you code something and then log into the game and do it once, does not mean it's bug free.
Your such a fanboy honestly, you attack me like i'm somehow hurting your pride, and that i'm somehow doing something to hurt your game of your choice. No ones asking for their hand being held. And you know it. Just nobody can question the darkfall devs or the fans or the game or they are idiots huh? Talk about fanboys
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?
2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them. fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you. Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.
I honestly don't think wanting videos over 4 years after development starts is wanting to have my hand held Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that? I should have explained it better, I want to see someone actually playing the game as the game. And there are a ton of games that show this. Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true. So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail. I just meant i want to see a real fight start, and a real fight end, through the viewpoint of one player, rather then a in game cinematic. Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move. What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game. It'd be a beta, doing rollbacks are not detrimental since it's a beta and not the real game, you shouldn't expect to even keep the characters anyway. So they don't want it to be a bugfest in beta so they can spend their time fixing bugs? Talk about fanboy logic. lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources. But shouldn't they have known this prior to announcing the beta, they announce it and THEN discuss weither or not to have it? 2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use. But again i wasn't talking about releasing the game, Betas are buggy and unbalanced, betas are NOT a way for people to just play the game for free before it's released. But again Didn't they discuss it before they announced it? Did someone on their team just suddenly say It's beta time! It just doesn't make sense. If i was carving something from wood and then call my friend to tell him to come look at it, but when he arrives at the door i tell him i decided i didn't want to let people criticize it yet, and told him to go home, wouldn't that make me seem fickle? Especially if i did it before. Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in. Ya your right, this no name company is somehow going to manage to pull off a game that is bug free and fully developed when big, more talented, richer companies can't manage to do it. I'm sorry i was so confused. Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game. It's a mmorpg, it has sandbox features, but it's still a mmorpg it's not as if i'm comparing a steak to cake. If they are trying to stop the masses from getting into this game, and complaining about everything and stopping playing because of their design then maybe they are doing something wrong? What's wrong with betas? Whats wrong with inviting members of the media to play the game and write opinions, and post gameplay clips?
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake. Ya in this game i can loot people, and attack a fps view. This is something never done in video games before. It's totally unique By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players. A mmorpg NEVER adding new content, long delays between new content? Seriously is this your first mmorpg? A mmorpg should NEVER be done adding into itself untill the game is completely dead in the water. And even if there was that glitch, that's what betas are for. If they wait untill EVERYTHING they want for release is in before they start betas(even closed ones) then it means each piece will be tested less individually. Now moving on tobaseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people. Why so against having the game shown to the media or through conventions? Because they can't afford conventions? They don't want people to see how their game is. That's the only reason it hasn't been shown in a playable build in any way shape or form when it should be entering beta.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes. A beta is not a release, and to ensure a game is not bugged, it's best to test it as much as possible, these developers are not gods amongst men who are better then every other developer out there. Testing out features, balance, content, reputation, building things, destroying things, fighting in certain areas, looting in certain areas. There are a ton of things to test, just because you code something and then log into the game and do it once, does not mean it's bug free.
Your such a fanboy honestly, you attack me like i'm somehow hurting your pride, and that i'm somehow doing something to hurt your game of your choice. No ones asking for their hand being held. And you know it. Just nobody can question the darkfall devs or the fans or the game or they are idiots huh? Talk about fanboys
There were small parts where it showed it in the players position. Though he was just getting his arse kicked. Just so you know tight 3rd person view is how their going to go with melee and 1st person view with ranged weapons.
Well this just maybe from what i see but it looks like SOMEONE is playing that game so there.
Your right its not detrimental since they have to rollback and the players that had started the guild or finally got enough money have to start back from the last save point. So now think about the possible player affects it would have and then tell me its not detrimental to the game. No one wants to play a beta when you have to start over every other day. By bugfest i mean bugs everywhere. there are going to be bugs but there would be alot more if they implemented things during the beta.
When they first declared DF they did not know that they would end up with aventurine, they only thought that they would be the ones developing it. So once they signed up with aventurine they had to cancel the first one.
Your right because developing and trying to fix bugs at the same time isnt hard at all espeically with all that coding they have to do. Developing and implementing at the same time while fixing bugs will take a lot longer to do than if you have your entire team concentrate on one aspect at a time.
DnL launched before it was finished and look what happened to that. They dont want to make the same mistakes they did.
Its an mmorpg yes but its features are unlike many. Its like saying a chocolate cake and a vanilla cake are the same. The only thing thats the same is what their called.
Wtf are you talking about? Im talking about the same old grind fest games. Where the only thing you do is grind till you reach the cap. Not many games successfully break from this.
Betas are good because they let players test the game and find any bugs that the developers havent found. This game is in internal beta if you did not realize. They are trying to find any major bugs that could disrupt gameplay. Why? They want to keep beta short. Why? They dont want players to know everything about the game before its released. Also they betas are buggy but not huge bugs because when games have alot/horrible bugs it leaves a bad taste and discourages users to play the game later.
Now if you dont care about that then you can go into beta but beta builds usually have most content already done. They dont need to implement many huge features and it shouldnt be extremely buggy if they took actual time with their work.
Let me clarify by what i meant. I meant anything big or game changing, like adding huge tanks. Of course i would expect for them to add something.
They did go to a convention and show a small , very small demo of it. It wasnt a very big convention i think but im not completely sure about the size.
Yes for most games beta isnt a release but if they want hold to their idea of having this game a secret than they are going to have to have a short beta in order for it to suceed.
Comments
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
So now your going to blatent lies? Well i hope that works out for you. Since you dont know what your takling about im done discussing this with you.
Can we actually keep you on this word? I doubt it, if it was so easy to do so you would have left awhile ago. I stick here because you are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. I got an idea thou, get on your other account and go against me there. At least we can "act" like your someone with some lick of usefully information. Then I will just prove you wrong again.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Yea you got a ton of evidence to prove that this company has no idea what it is doing, I will give you that.
So now your going to blatent lies? Well i hope that works out for you. Since you dont know what your takling about im done discussing this with you.
Can we actually keep you on this word? I doubt it, if it was so easy to do so you would have left awhile ago. I stick here because you are blatantly wrong and everyone can see it. I got an idea thou, get on your other account and go against me there. At least we can "act" like your someone with some lick of usefully information. Then I will just prove you wrong again.
This is my real account and who says im wrong? you. Well your word doesnt mean much since you like to lie and cause misconeptions.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
So your not done? Ahh I guess so, my words mean nothing , nothing at all, but alas here you are proving me wrong? Surrreee, ok lier lier pant's on fire! Now that I have stooped to your level we can continue.
You love to ignore everything but your own words, as I am not the only one on this thread nor did I start it, (However you act as I have) and to this point no, I am not the only one. You seem to be alone atm on your stance. Might I suggest running over to the official forums to get some of your fan-bots to hop aboard so I can have a real debate with someone who might actually have an intellectual discussion and not decay into nah nah nah name calling?
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Mourning , DnL. Sure it can be done, it's been done. Repeat this all you like. Dosn't prove the fact that this company has cried wolf over and over and over again.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Official Videos:
http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D758EB823BA687FF
Notice of Allowance:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78284269
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
Screenshots:
http://www.markeedragon.com/screenshots/showgallery.php/cat/3050
A lot of screenshots of the game
Money The company got:
http://www.iflr1000.com/default.asp?page=48&CH=3&CountryID=41&tcCountry=41&tcTitleID=81
Some money the company more than likely got have to scroll down to find it.
Now as for DnL it was and quote "... was released underdeveloped to retail...". Aventurine is a well funded company and has plenty of time so this wont be the case for DF.
As for Mourning I do not know why and am currently looking it up.
hmm DF isnt following this type of pattern. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/37720
ok old screens and vids nothing new, but you love throwing in the financial part of this, Guess what I found the one mention of it here and here is the exact copy and paste of such...Established in 1863, Lambadarios Law Offices has had an encouraging year advising Chandris Hotels on a bond loan to finance the construction of a new hotel in Thessaloniki for €40 million, acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank, and representing Proton Investment Bank on issuing a convertible bond loan through a private placement with an option to be traded through the Athens stock exchange. The firm also advised private equity group Group Notos Associates in its investment in Internet cafés in Greece, which involved a complex structure including the issue of a convertible bond loan and preference shares with a cumulative dividend. Maria Fronista is the key contact partner at the firm for finance matters.
Ok so now that this is shown let me show you what "converitble bond loan" means. I will quote some great sites that concern bonds etc, so in simple terms anyone can understand it...
Say you are in the grocery store with a friend on a Thursday afternoon and see something you need for your house; a broom for example. Although you get your paycheck the next day, you ask your shopping buddy to borrow a few dollars so you can purchase the broom now, in return for which you will not only pay them back tomorrow, but buy them dinner as well. Your friend, finding these terms acceptable, loans you the money and you purchase the item.
This is, in essence, what happens in the corporate world when a company issues bonds. Generally, as a business grows, it doesn't generate enough cash internally to pay for the supplies and equipment necessary to keep it growing. Because of this, most businesses have one of two options. They can either 1.) sell a portion of the company to the general public by issuing additional shares of stock, or they can 2.) issue bonds.
When a company issues bonds, it is borrowing money from investors in exchange for which it agrees to pay them interest at set intervals for a predetermined amount of time. In essence, it is the same thing as a mortgage only you, the investor, are the bank.
Now convertibles bonds possess both equity and bond characteristics, it's not surprising that they yield less than their issuer's straight bonds, but significantly more than their stocks' dividend. While convertibles are typically priced so that an investor would receive less than the full value of the underlying stock upon conversion, in return, the convertible investor earns a higher yield and has greater downside protection than an equity shareholder. In essence, the investor is "paid to wait," earning income until the bond matures or until—hopefully—a rising stock price positively affects the convertible bond's value.
So what does all of this mean? Exactly nothing, they filled to have bonds put out in hopes of investors buying into their buisness plan. Nothing here shows physical money being given. I had a company using bonds, I know how it works and the point before as it is now is this proves exactly nothing. The pics are old, the vids follow suite, the company has constantly cried wolf that their creditibilty is crap at this point. For many of us, we see vaporware for this very reason. Mourning and DnL are used in excample because both of those companies did the same "wolf" calling that now this company is doing.
So keep throwing these links in our faces, it still proves two things, jack and shit.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Established in 1863, Lambadarios Law Offices has had an encouraging year advising Chandris Hotels on a bond loan to finance the construction of a new hotel in Thessaloniki for €40 million, acting for Aventurine in relation to its issue of a €20 million convertible bond loan with Marfin Bank, and representing Proton Investment Bank on issuing a convertible bond loan through a private placement with an option to be traded through the Athens stock exchange. The firm also advised private equity group Group Notos Associates in its investment in Internet cafés in Greece, which involved a complex structure including the issue of a convertible bond loan and preference shares with a cumulative dividend. Maria Fronista is the key contact partner at the firm for finance matters.
Ok so now that this is shown let me show you what "converitble bond loan" means. I will quote some great sites that concern bonds etc, so in simple terms anyone can understand it...
Say you are in the grocery store with a friend on a Thursday afternoon and see something you need for your house; a broom for example. Although you get your paycheck the next day, you ask your shopping buddy to borrow a few dollars so you can purchase the broom now, in return for which you will not only pay them back tomorrow, but buy them dinner as well. Your friend, finding these terms acceptable, loans you the money and you purchase the item.
This is, in essence, what happens in the corporate world when a company issues bonds. Generally, as a business grows, it doesn't generate enough cash internally to pay for the supplies and equipment necessary to keep it growing. Because of this, most businesses have one of two options. They can either 1.) sell a portion of the company to the general public by issuing additional shares of stock, or they can 2.) issue bonds.
When a company issues bonds, it is borrowing money from investors in exchange for which it agrees to pay them interest at set intervals for a predetermined amount of time. In essence, it is the same thing as a mortgage only you, the investor, are the bank.
Now convertibles bonds possess both equity and bond characteristics, it's not surprising that they yield less than their issuer's straight bonds, but significantly more than their stocks' dividend. While convertibles are typically priced so that an investor would receive less than the full value of the underlying stock upon conversion, in return, the convertible investor earns a higher yield and has greater downside protection than an equity shareholder. In essence, the investor is "paid to wait," earning income until the bond matures or until—hopefully—a rising stock price positively affects the convertible bond's value.
So what does all of this mean? Exactly nothing, they filled to have bonds put out in hopes of investors buying into their buisness plan. Nothing here shows physical money being given. I had a company using bonds, I know how it works and the point before as it is now is this proves exactly nothing. The pics are old, the vids follow suite, the company has constantly cried wolf that their creditibilty is crap at this point. For many of us, we see vaporware for this very reason. Mourning and DnL are used in excample because both of those companies did the same "wolf" calling that now this company is doing.
So keep throwing these links in our faces, it still proves two things, jack and shit.
yes but the fact that they are filling out bonds is enought to prove that they are working on something. Tell me why would someone fill out to get a loan when they have nothing to show? hmm? If you cant read between the lines then this is going to be long and boring.
Are you seriously clueless? They have been attempting to raise funds for sometime now , while at the same time crying wolf to the fan base to keep them going. Read between the lines? Wow man , talk about stretching to look for something that is plainly obvious. I admire your devotion, I really do. But the facts are here and there is no need to "read between the lines" to see it. Reading between is a ploy of lawyers who like to throw in that catch 22 as it is so well known and the only way to catch those little notations is to go threw the document with a fine tooth comb to make sure your not being taken. This is far from such a posting or information that needs such an in depth review of what a bond is. Hopefully in time you will come to realize it.
Again we don't want a great concept like this to go vaporware, but we won't be fooled by cry wolf or links to nothing that counters all the wolf crying to begin with, just so a company can hold it's breath in hoping some investors will see a "following" that was mislead so they can show possible investors "hey we got an honest following, just look!"
If these Devs would have said " hey guys , we ran out of funds and we really need everyone to stick around and help us promote this so we can find more investment dollars" at least that would be honest and some would stay to help out. But alas no, it was cry wolf time and time again. What makes the difference between these two examples? Simple, don't lie to your fan-base , it will bite you in the ass. Then to continue to do so is just a slap in the face. So yea, vaporware. Why didn't they go the second rout? Simply because if they said that, they would have had at least an honest following, but it wouldn't be the numbers one can get by saying "Clan sign up for beta!" and that's just one excample.
PS. btw, now that you admit they are looking for funds, I rest my case on the whole they have 20+ mill and a 30 man crew.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Are you seriously clueless? They have been attempting to raise funds for sometime now , while at the same time crying wolf to the fan base to keep them going. Read between the lines? Wow man , talk about stretching to look for something that is plainly obvious. I admire your devotion, I really do. But the facts are here and there is no need to "read between the lines" to see it. Reading between is a ploy of lawyers who like to throw in that catch 22 as it is so well known and the only way to catch those little notations is to go threw the document with a fine tooth comb to make sure your not being taken. This is far from such a posting or information that needs such an in depth review of what a bond is. Hopefully in time you will come to realize it.
Again we don't want a great concept like this to go vaporware, but we won't be fooled by cry wolf or links to nothing that counters all the wolf crying to begin with, just so a company can hold it's breath in hoping some investors will see a "following" that was mislead so they can show possible investors "hey we got an honest following, just look!"
If these Devs would have said " hey guys , we ran out of funds and we really need everyone to stick around and help us promote this so we can find more investment dollars" at least that would be honest and some would stay to help out. But alas no, it was cry wolf time and time again. What makes the difference between these two examples? Simple, don't lie to your fan-base , it will bite you in the ass. Then to continue to do so is just a slap in the face. So yea, vaporware. Why didn't they go the second rout? Simply because if they said that, they would have had at least an honest following, but it wouldn't be the numbers one can get by saying "Clan sign up for beta!" and that's just one excample.
PS. btw, now that you admit they are looking for funds, I rest my case on the whole they have 20+ mill and a 30 man crew.
It said they filed for a loan and looking for more companines that invested in that bank i found few. It also states that around the time DF applied they invested into alot of greek companies. Seeing as how i can not find alot of companies that filed for that bank i think its more than likely they got the money.
This is all the PUBLIC knowledge we have about their financial transactions. They do private work bur for how much? im not sure but enough to keep this game going while hiring some new people. If this game was running out of money i think the first thing they'd is to NOT hire more people.
There's no need to argue about whether Darkfall will be released or not.
All we can do is wait and see - either it will be or it wont.
Even the developers themselves cannot guarantee it will be released; anything can happen.
But I sure hope it is released. We have enough unoriginal carebear fantasy "MMOG" garbage floating around already. So, I hope they don't feel pressured into watering Darkfall down to the point where it no longer offers anything worthwhile. Hopefully it is released just as intended and is successful.
That is what is important. And whether they ultimately fail or not, those experienced with MMOGs should encourage them along the way, no matter how long it takes.
Also since they havent found a suitiable publisher they are likely going to self-publish wouldnt that take alot of money? Since they have to buy the servers, maintance, etc. Wouldnt it take alot of servers to have 10k players on one continent? Since this game has many different players from different countries wont they have to set up multiple servers in different locations and keep them maintained?
Wouldnt that take a lot of money to create and upkeep?
I'm asking you this question because you seem to be the most reasonable person i've seen.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Did i say that they shouldn't like the game? Did i say this game doesn't exist, did i say this game this is going to suck?
I merely am saying, the amount of blind devotion to this game(to the point where its toted by some as the best thing in existence) is just laughable.
I merely am saying to not count your chickens before they are hatched.
1. And theres still no beta, no REAL gameplay footage, and no third party experiences with the game.
2. Yep, but have they ever showed us something that needs a real legitimate client, server, and long term appeal? No. The few videos they have released are taken from FAKE pvp encounters set up for the video, boats placed next to each other and begin to shoot. Show me a video of someone who has sit down with the game, and played it in it's entirely and true form, rather then a few encounters. It's easy to take in game footage and edit it together to make a great video, i merely want some REAL footage. And don't count that 2003 alpha video... that is so very primitive and horrible, that if that WAS a legitimate gameplay clip that is still valid to this day, then it will never reach 200 copies sold.
Again i wasn't saying it's a scam of a game, but merely saying, could i get such dedicated fans without really giving them anything but teasers? Screenshots and clips of combat are something you should be seeing from pre alpha/alpha builds, if you look up information they planned on betas YEARS ago, the fact they 2 years ago, even THOUGHT about a beta that year, means they should have been close to a build, a delay is expected, but 2 years later and STILL no hint at a actual beta date?
This game may be great wonderful and awesome, but ideas alone shouldn't be enough for a rabid fanbase of this game. All the defenders need to realize that the people attacking it DO have points.
And i still don't understand why you care so much if ppl follow it? I've said that 2-3 times today, I'll repeat it: those who follow the game haven't spend, and won't spend, anything more than time. Except if its something else.
1) They are around 30 people plus freelancers, who have been working on the game since 2003.
2) They have posted news, screens and movies regularly, ever since 2001.
But yeah, as you say its probably just a scam. Someone could easily setup such a scam - just need to hire 30 people and pay their salary for 4-5 years, and create a website, and post news articles every couple of weeks, and sit and generate movies with 3d studio max or something. Makes alot of sense really.
Did i say that they shouldn't like the game? Did i say this game doesn't exist, did i say this game this is going to suck?
I merely am saying, the amount of blind devotion to this game(to the point where its toted by some as the best thing in existence) is just laughable.
I merely am saying to not count your chickens before they are hatched.
1. And theres still no beta, no REAL gameplay footage, and no third party experiences with the game.
2. Yep, but have they ever showed us something that needs a real legitimate client, server, and long term appeal? No. The few videos they have released are taken from FAKE pvp encounters set up for the video, boats placed next to each other and begin to shoot. Show me a video of someone who has sit down with the game, and played it in it's entirely and true form, rather then a few encounters. It's easy to take in game footage and edit it together to make a great video, i merely want some REAL footage. And don't count that 2003 alpha video... that is so very primitive and horrible, that if that WAS a legitimate gameplay clip that is still valid to this day, then it will never reach 200 copies sold.
Again i wasn't saying it's a scam of a game, but merely saying, could i get such dedicated fans without really giving them anything but teasers? Screenshots and clips of combat are something you should be seeing from pre alpha/alpha builds, if you look up information they planned on betas YEARS ago, the fact they 2 years ago, even THOUGHT about a beta that year, means they should have been close to a build, a delay is expected, but 2 years later and STILL no hint at a actual beta date?
This game may be great wonderful and awesome, but ideas alone shouldn't be enough for a rabid fanbase of this game. All the defenders need to realize that the people attacking it DO have points.
1. the game has only been in development for 4 years. Real? As far as i know those gameplay videos are really there. Do you understand internal beta?2. The fact that they have a game and its going to be on the internet is enough to prove that they need a client and server. Long term appeal? Not entirely sure what you mean but if you mean the features then you havent looked at them.
fake? A PvP is a PvP the fight shows you how combat and the camera system works. Yea those boats werent shooting at each other. they were only right next to each other shooting cannons. When has a company EVER taken a SINGLE person request? So i dont know what makes you think your so important that they need to do certain things for you.
Actually thats exactly what your trying to imply whether if you realize it or not. How many games have little to no bugs and completely finished when they come to beta? None. Now since it usually takes 4-5 years making a complete game and they had announced beta 2 years ago then the game would have only been in development for 2 years. So the game wasnt completely finished based on that fact. Since they wanted the game to be pretty much completely done then that would take 2 more years of work at the least. Yes we do have a hint of beta coming along.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that?
Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true.
So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail.
Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move.
What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game.
lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources.
2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use.
Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in.
Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game.
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake.
By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players.
Now moving on to baseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes.
Yes they havent been the most informative of the bunch but i still think this game is coming out. The only question i have is if they do it right or wrong. Well ill just have to wait a while.
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.I honestly don't think wanting videos over 4 years after development starts is wanting to have my hand held
Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that?
I should have explained it better, I want to see someone actually playing the game as the game. And there are a ton of games that show this.
Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true.
So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail.
I just meant i want to see a real fight start, and a real fight end, through the viewpoint of one player, rather then a in game cinematic.
Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move.
What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game.
It'd be a beta, doing rollbacks are not detrimental since it's a beta and not the real game, you shouldn't expect to even keep the characters anyway. So they don't want it to be a bugfest in beta so they can spend their time fixing bugs? Talk about fanboy logic.
lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources.
But shouldn't they have known this prior to announcing the beta, they announce it and THEN discuss weither or not to have it?
2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use.
But again i wasn't talking about releasing the game, Betas are buggy and unbalanced, betas are NOT a way for people to just play the game for free before it's released. But again Didn't they discuss it before they announced it? Did someone on their team just suddenly say It's beta time! It just doesn't make sense. If i was carving something from wood and then call my friend to tell him to come look at it, but when he arrives at the door i tell him i decided i didn't want to let people criticize it yet, and told him to go home, wouldn't that make me seem fickle? Especially if i did it before.
Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in.
Ya your right, this no name company is somehow going to manage to pull off a game that is bug free and fully developed when big, more talented, richer companies can't manage to do it. I'm sorry i was so confused.
Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game.
It's a mmorpg, it has sandbox features, but it's still a mmorpg it's not as if i'm comparing a steak to cake. If they are trying to stop the masses from getting into this game, and complaining about everything and stopping playing because of their design then maybe they are doing something wrong? What's wrong with betas? Whats wrong with inviting members of the media to play the game and write opinions, and post gameplay clips?
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake.
Ya in this game i can loot people, and attack a fps view. This is something never done in video games before. It's totally unique
By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players.
A mmorpg NEVER adding new content, long delays between new content? Seriously is this your first mmorpg? A mmorpg should NEVER be done adding into itself untill the game is completely dead in the water. And even if there was that glitch, that's what betas are for. If they wait untill EVERYTHING they want for release is in before they start betas(even closed ones) then it means each piece will be tested less individually.
Now moving on tobaseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people.
Why so against having the game shown to the media or through conventions? Because they can't afford conventions? They don't want people to see how their game is. That's the only reason it hasn't been shown in a playable build in any way shape or form when it should be entering beta.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes.
A beta is not a release, and to ensure a game is not bugged, it's best to test it as much as possible, these developers are not gods amongst men who are better then every other developer out there. Testing out features, balance, content, reputation, building things, destroying things, fighting in certain areas, looting in certain areas. There are a ton of things to test, just because you code something and then log into the game and do it once, does not mean it's bug free.
Your such a fanboy honestly, you attack me like i'm somehow hurting your pride, and that i'm somehow doing something to hurt your game of your choice. No ones asking for their hand being held. And you know it. Just nobody can question the darkfall devs or the fans or the game or they are idiots huh? Talk about fanboys
1. Then show them, why not have more public release? Too much time? Please.
2. By a legitimate client/server, i mean show us that there is a working version of the game in some form. That there is a real playable client, and a functioning server. Long term appeal is a lot of things, but paper is a lot different then in game, let's see of these features which will make this game worth playing for everyone. How many mmorpgs have tons of things which simply don't exist compared to their promises. Every single one of them.
Fake as in a staged fight, they take a bunch of people have them fight, and edit together their ui-less video Show me them fighting, show me some dieing, and see the actual fight end, not just random clips of people swinging at each other and cutting to a different view every few seconds. By the boats being placed next to each other, i mean have they put in working sailing? targeting, etc etc. Do the boats actually work or just the cannon animations, if you look at the boat part of the video they only move a tiny bit before it cuts to the next section. Let's see how boats actually work.
How many games have little to no bugs? None of course, and of course mmorpgs take years to develop, but the issue is, we aren't talking about a release date here, we are talking about a beta, a beta is for a test of the game, to get rid of its bugs, to help stress servers, and massively experience features of the game that INTERNAL betas will NEVER find no matter how long they last.
What your ignoring(quite purposefully i might add) is that they did announce betas on multiple occasions and canceled them. Did they actually think they would be finished then? Or did they change their mind and decide to wait untill the games almost done for a beta(ummm... what? a finished beta... that is laughable by itself). And if so, why even announce a beta in the first place? The issue is a beta is NOT supposed to be finished. Heck look at warhammer, it's in beta RIGHT NOW, and 2 of the 6 races campaigns arent near close to finishing, the classes are still unbalanced, there are plenty of bugs, and unfinished areas. Because it's a BETA, NOT A STRESS TEST. Same for vanguard... and WoW, and coh, etc all had betas, started small and grew as the game got released... the betas didn't start 4-5 years into development, and then release almost instantly afterwards.
They are gonna have a somehow almost untested game be put into beta for a month and then go into release? I'm sorry but that's just bad planning. When beta comes out... expect it to be in beta state, even tho it's "almost finished"
Why is there a lack of actual in game footage and experiences? Why is the beta being pushed back regardless of what a beta is actually for(testing). IMHO it seems like the game is trying to hide the current state of the game, it probably is SO bad that they CANT release a beta because it would get leaked and the fanbase would die instantly. Why else would they hide it so strongly.
You say i'm selfish and need them to cater to me? I'm merely saying what is to be expected a game 4 years into development should be able to provide.
Do you really need your hand held throughout the entire development? If so thats a little... sad. To need to be shown every aspect of the game before its even in beta is a little premature because things can be changed.I honestly don't think wanting videos over 4 years after development starts is wanting to have my hand held
Um videos... Though if you dont want to believe those then too bad. They've shown you but you CHOOSE not to believe because of some ridiculous idea in your head. So you want them to show you them logging in? How many games actually do something like that?
I should have explained it better, I want to see someone actually playing the game as the game. And there are a ton of games that show this.
Once again videos and SS but if you dont believe that then its your problem not mine. Generalize all you want but that wont make it true.
So you want them not only to fight but die as well? Come on there is SS of them dead. There are also SS of their UI but since they said they want it to be clutter free its minimal. If they truly want it to be clutter free then their might be a something to hide the UI like Alt+U or something. You want to see a fight end? How the hell is that even showing anything. They want to show major points in the game not every detail.
I just meant i want to see a real fight start, and a real fight end, through the viewpoint of one player, rather then a in game cinematic.
Yea they are just covering the major points not going into detail about single aspect. See you said it yourself they move.
What they want is a game that will NOT turn out to be a huge bug-fest. They want the game to be completely developed and tested for major bugs so they can spend their time in beta ONLY ON BUGS. Multi-tasking is harder than you think and causes more problems. Yes only some bugs will be found through a huge test like this one but they dont want a bug that will make you uber rich with no actual work. Doing consistent rollbacks will be detrimental to the game.
It'd be a beta, doing rollbacks are not detrimental since it's a beta and not the real game, you shouldn't expect to even keep the characters anyway. So they don't want it to be a bugfest in beta so they can spend their time fixing bugs? Talk about fanboy logic.
lets see 1st time 2003. This is when they first signed on to aventurine, this is when they went through an epiphany. They realized that this game cant be 2nd rate which is what it would have turned out like if they launched it then. They needed to improve everything, espically since they had the resources.
But shouldn't they have known this prior to announcing the beta, they announce it and THEN discuss weither or not to have it?
2nd time 2005. The game was only in development for 2 years. Looking at it and comparing it to a time table there was no way they were done with the game. I'm not sure the exact reason though i can imagine it went like this. The game wasnt completely done but they thought they saw a light at the end of the tunnel so to say and exclaimed it. Perhaps they realized they would need to have a completely developed game before releasing it to the public. Why? Its harder to implement something into the game when its already running and balance it than it is to develop and balance it before mass use.
But again i wasn't talking about releasing the game, Betas are buggy and unbalanced, betas are NOT a way for people to just play the game for free before it's released. But again Didn't they discuss it before they announced it? Did someone on their team just suddenly say It's beta time! It just doesn't make sense. If i was carving something from wood and then call my friend to tell him to come look at it, but when he arrives at the door i tell him i decided i didn't want to let people criticize it yet, and told him to go home, wouldn't that make me seem fickle? Especially if i did it before.
Your the one that seems narrow-minded. They cant have a fully developed and almost bug-free game? What you cant except new and different ideas? Get out from under that rock your living in.
Ya your right, this no name company is somehow going to manage to pull off a game that is bug free and fully developed when big, more talented, richer companies can't manage to do it. I'm sorry i was so confused.
Your right since another game is doing it, we should do the same thing. Its that kinda thought that creates so many cloned games. Thats exactly what their trying to stop. This is a different type of game and therefore they should do it a different way. Just because it works for another game DOES NOT mean its going to work for EVERY game.
It's a mmorpg, it has sandbox features, but it's still a mmorpg it's not as if i'm comparing a steak to cake. If they are trying to stop the masses from getting into this game, and complaining about everything and stopping playing because of their design then maybe they are doing something wrong? What's wrong with betas? Whats wrong with inviting members of the media to play the game and write opinions, and post gameplay clips?
Once again DF is not like WoW or any other one of those games. Do not make that sort of mistake.
Ya in this game i can loot people, and attack a fps view. This is something never done in video games before. It's totally unique
By finished it means done developing. It means they dont have to add any sort of new content(at least for a long time or ever if its good enough). They are going to be working out on some bugs they missed but there wont be any "Super Uber milliionare Glitch". This game has to be completely balanced and the only way to truly make it that way is to have a beta with a mass amount of players.
A mmorpg NEVER adding new content, long delays between new content? Seriously is this your first mmorpg? A mmorpg should NEVER be done adding into itself untill the game is completely dead in the water. And even if there was that glitch, that's what betas are for. If they wait untill EVERYTHING they want for release is in before they start betas(even closed ones) then it means each piece will be tested less individually.
Now moving on tobaseless assumptions eh? The devs are developing the game and they should focus their resources on it. Time is resource that shouldnt be wasted on hand holding you people.
Why so against having the game shown to the media or through conventions? Because they can't afford conventions? They don't want people to see how their game is. That's the only reason it hasn't been shown in a playable build in any way shape or form when it should be entering beta.
Its compeletly idiotic to release a game that is glitchy and unbalanced. They want the game as bug-free and balanced as they can make it before they show the public. Yes beta is for testing but testing what? It should be for taking out minor bugs that the devs have missed not huge ones and completely unbalanced classes.
A beta is not a release, and to ensure a game is not bugged, it's best to test it as much as possible, these developers are not gods amongst men who are better then every other developer out there. Testing out features, balance, content, reputation, building things, destroying things, fighting in certain areas, looting in certain areas. There are a ton of things to test, just because you code something and then log into the game and do it once, does not mean it's bug free.
Your such a fanboy honestly, you attack me like i'm somehow hurting your pride, and that i'm somehow doing something to hurt your game of your choice. No ones asking for their hand being held. And you know it. Just nobody can question the darkfall devs or the fans or the game or they are idiots huh? Talk about fanboys
There were small parts where it showed it in the players position. Though he was just getting his arse kicked. Just so you know tight 3rd person view is how their going to go with melee and 1st person view with ranged weapons.
Well this just maybe from what i see but it looks like SOMEONE is playing that game so there.
Your right its not detrimental since they have to rollback and the players that had started the guild or finally got enough money have to start back from the last save point. So now think about the possible player affects it would have and then tell me its not detrimental to the game. No one wants to play a beta when you have to start over every other day. By bugfest i mean bugs everywhere. there are going to be bugs but there would be alot more if they implemented things during the beta.
When they first declared DF they did not know that they would end up with aventurine, they only thought that they would be the ones developing it. So once they signed up with aventurine they had to cancel the first one.
Your right because developing and trying to fix bugs at the same time isnt hard at all espeically with all that coding they have to do. Developing and implementing at the same time while fixing bugs will take a lot longer to do than if you have your entire team concentrate on one aspect at a time.
DnL launched before it was finished and look what happened to that. They dont want to make the same mistakes they did.
Its an mmorpg yes but its features are unlike many. Its like saying a chocolate cake and a vanilla cake are the same. The only thing thats the same is what their called.
Wtf are you talking about? Im talking about the same old grind fest games. Where the only thing you do is grind till you reach the cap. Not many games successfully break from this.
Betas are good because they let players test the game and find any bugs that the developers havent found. This game is in internal beta if you did not realize. They are trying to find any major bugs that could disrupt gameplay. Why? They want to keep beta short. Why? They dont want players to know everything about the game before its released. Also they betas are buggy but not huge bugs because when games have alot/horrible bugs it leaves a bad taste and discourages users to play the game later.
Now if you dont care about that then you can go into beta but beta builds usually have most content already done. They dont need to implement many huge features and it shouldnt be extremely buggy if they took actual time with their work.
Let me clarify by what i meant. I meant anything big or game changing, like adding huge tanks. Of course i would expect for them to add something.
They did go to a convention and show a small , very small demo of it. It wasnt a very big convention i think but im not completely sure about the size.
Yes for most games beta isnt a release but if they want hold to their idea of having this game a secret than they are going to have to have a short beta in order for it to suceed.