I concurr. Somone that wants a hardcore forced grouping grindfest with a ton (I mean a ton) of depth and content really ought to be playing FFXI and leave the rest of us that don't have that kind of spare time in peace in LoTRO.
On topic....
I am honestly not the biggest Turbine fan. I love LoTRO, but think that they pretty much screwed the pooch on DDO (at least at luanch), and the crap they pulled in AC II was a complete and utter travesty. That said, anyone that knows beans about MMOs knows that Turbine has a well deserved reputation for adding tons of quality free content to their games. You are seriously deluded if you think WoW or EQ II added as much free content in their first 6 months as LoTRO is getting. To claim that doesn't further the discussion, it just shows that you don't know what you are talking about.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I concurr. Somone that wants a hardcore forced grouping grindfest with a ton (I mean a ton) of depth and content really ought to be playing FFXI and leave the rest of us that don't have that kind of spare time in peace in LoTRO.
On topic.... I am honestly not the biggest Turbine fan. I love LoTRO, but think that they pretty much screwed the pooch on DDO (at least at luanch), and the crap they pulled in AC II was a complete and utter travesty. That said, anyone that knows beans about MMOs knows that Turbine has a well deserved reputation for adding tons of quality free content to their games. You are seriously deluded if you think WoW or EQ II added as much free content in their first 6 months as LoTRO is getting. To claim that doesn't further the discussion, it just shows that you don't know what you are talking about.
QFT
Forced grouping is old hat, Brad proved that last year. There will never be another forced grouping game from a major western developer or for that matter even a minor indie. As far as the WoW /EQII I never played WoW past the free 30 but in EQII they added a couple of small dungeons, no real "new" features or gameplay. This is my first experience with Turbine and so far I am impressed, they beat the shit out of SOE but that is not surprising..
Perhaps if the games cames out with all this features from the beggining (like free pvp... not need to reach x lvl... ) they got lot of more subscribers, that seems patches to avoid what they didnt did before...
first was book 9 in june. Book 10 coming next monday
No other game company out there gives to their costumers a MAJOR free content update every 2 months, they already announce book 11 for october forums.lotro.com/showthread.php
Correct me if I am wrong but this is a pay to play game, so it isn't free updates they are updates available to paying subscribers. That being said, turbine has allways pushed content out, but most big MMOs do as well, especially ones that are as linear and quest based as LotRO as the only thing to do, the only reason to pay for another month is to do the content. So I suppose credit is due but it is by no means free and the game design requires it be done.
first was book 9 in june. Book 10 coming next monday
No other game company out there gives to their costumers a MAJOR free content update every 2 months, they already announce book 11 for october forums.lotro.com/showthread.php
Correct me if I am wrong but this is a pay to play game, so it isn't free updates they are updates available to paying subscribers. That being said, turbine has allways pushed content out, but most big MMOs do as well, especially ones that are as linear and quest based as LotRO as the only thing to do, the only reason to pay for another month is to do the content. So I suppose credit is due but it is by no means free and the game design requires it be done.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
I'd just like to say a couple things.. It is definitely not nearly on scale with true hardcore powergaming MMO's like EQ, EQ2, DAOC, WoW, VG, etc. For hardcore powergamers like myself, nub
PVE games are not hardcore. Open pvp with permadeath or severe consequences and full looting are. You confusing Time-sink with hardcore. If no one can kill you and take all your gears that you spent a year getting..its just a game that makes you wait..not hardcore. You are not hardcore..you have alot of free time that you spend killing npc's that are scripted to let you kill it. Never have I heard eq2 or wow or daoc called hard core games. EQ is a timesink..nothing hard about waiting..VG is the most solo friendly game out there..where, again, you kill things that are meant to die. The hardest thing done in these games is group ganking npc's. Thats like you and your friends beating up a shrub in your back yard...and yelling "straight outta comptom bitch" at it like youre a no good thug. The only games close to hard core are eve and uo..which you didnt even mention. Anything else you bring with your hardcore self?
Powergamer isnt a title of respect either...all it means is you spend alot of time playing a game. Ask any girl if you dont believe me..see if they think its hot.
dang, i messed that all up. i have no idea how to post funny animations in forums lol
anyways, i am one of the few who sees lotro starting in many ways the same way WoW did when it first came out aside from a better overall presentation after beta. Imo i hope lotro sticks to its guns and doesnt subside to constent massive updates too frequently and end up truly being perhaps not a WoW clone, but a very similar WoW time sink.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
As I said, credit where credit is due but the idea that it is free is inaccurate. Also, Turbine has released two MMOs (DDO and LotRO) now with an undeniable lack of content so while it is good they are publishing new content it is relaly just putting in what the game was missing. Not too many people, fans included, would say that either DDO or LotRO shipped with enough content for months of subscription play.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
As I said, credit where credit is due but the idea that it is free is inaccurate. Also, Turbine has released two MMOs (DDO and LotRO) now with an undeniable lack of content so while it is good they are publishing new content it is relaly just putting in what the game was missing. Not too many people, fans included, would say that either DDO or LotRO shipped with enough content for months of subscription play.
This from someone who doesn't play the game, has indicated at least a few times that he doesn't like the game and doesn't intend to play it. Naww.. no bias there.
And "an undeniable lack of content"?
See... it's those "absolute" comments that irk me; people presuming to speak with an authority they do not have. "Undeniable" by whose definition, exactly? Sure, there's people who feel there's not enough in the game that they want to do. Any game has people who will feel that way, no matter how long it's been out or how much there is to do. There's that saying.. "You can't please everyone all the time"
However, what about all the people playing it who find there's plenty for them to do in the game, even without the content updates, and are having a great time? Do we just not include their impression of it?
Personally, I think the game has plenty to do... I enjoy hunting, and questing, and crafting. I enjoy playing with the music system, trying to figure out how to transcribe songs I know into the game. I enjoy wandering off in some random direction to see what's out there. So, for me, it is not at all "undeniable" that there's not enough content, because, even without the update, I'm finding there's plenty to keep me entertained. I've spoken to others who feel the same way. So certainly... not *everyone* feels there's too little content. Ergo... It's not "undeniable" that there's a lack of it.
Still, it's funny how people will always first assume that it must be some flaw in the design.. or some mistake by the designers... that the game doesn't cater specifically, or entirely, to what they're looking for. They never stop to think, "gee.. all these other people enjoy it, so they must be doing something right... Maybe it's just not the right game for me?"
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by WSIMike See... it's those "absolute" comments that irk me; people presuming to speak with an authority they do not have. "Undeniable" by whose definition, exactly?
Seeing as how even Turbine acknowledge that there was a lack of high end content at launch it is perfectly fair to say LotRO had an undeniable lack of content. Clearly the plan was to launch the game and add in the middle/high end content - now they are doing that. Good for them, it is worth noting - but it is not free and they are not saints for doing it as the OP suggests.
Seeing as how even Turbine acknowledge that there was a lack of high end content at launch it is perfectly fair to say LotRO had an undeniable lack of content. Clearly the plan was to launch the game and add in the middle/high end content - now they are doing that. Good for them, it is worth noting - but it is not free and they are not saints for doing it as the OP suggests.
Can you provide a link where a Turbine Dev said there was a "undeniable lack of content" or are yuou just pulling your facts out of your ass like you normally do. As far as the free part , will there be a additional charge or is is it provided with the normal subscription. Unless your credit card gets hit with a additional charge then it is free and yes Turbine has been reccomended for sainthood according to my insider at the Vatican..
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
Conversely the flaming trolls try to rationalize the Turbine updates as lack of something....
Turbine has since AC1 put out content updates at a much higher rate then anyone else on the market.
You can look at updates every-time and say 'that was missing from launch' Fact is, nobody had the launch Lotro had..nobody can deny that. Any additional content added to any game is a bonus. Turbine just made a name for them selves by putting one out at regular frequency.
Will book 11 having housing, month of the LM/Minstrel, 12 man raid's, and rumors of more area's being opened up, again they raise the bar.
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
(Edited to better state certain points and correct type-o's)
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades by "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In other words, in the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
When you continue to play semantics and argue at it, it just makes it seem all the more obvious that you've got no real issue with the game. You're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades against "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
What you're doing here amounts to a disingenuous play on semantics. Or, put more simply, nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking because you have some nebulous issue with the game and/or the developer.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
I agree, case closed.
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Conversely the flaming trolls try to rationalize the Turbine updates as lack of something....
Turbine has since AC1 put out content updates at a much higher rate then anyone else on the market.
You can look at updates every-time and say 'that was missing from launch' Fact is, nobody had the launch Lotro had..nobody can deny that. Any additional content added to any game is a bonus. Turbine just made a name for them selves by putting one out at regular frequency.
Will book 11 having housing, month of the LM/Minstrel, 12 man raid's, and rumors of more area's being opened up, again they raise the bar.
QFT!
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
(Edited to better state certain points and correct type-o's)
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades by "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In other words, in the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
When you continue to play semantics and argue at it, it just makes it seem all the more obvious that you've got no real issue with the game. You're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
Excellent post!!
Couldn't have said it better myself.
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
what lack of content at lunch? 2200 quests, 4 lvl 50 instances, craft, deeds, etc. what was missing at lunch you always talking?
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
what lack of content at lunch? 2200 quests, 4 lvl 50 instances, craft, deeds, etc. what was missing at lunch you always talking?
Basically, "any content that they're adding in the content updates", Smith is calling "missing content", becuase, to him I guess, it should have all been there at launch.
'cause, you know, no other game developer ever adds new content post-launch.
He's basically nit-picking at non-issues. To what end? I have no idea.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Basically, "any content that they're adding in the content updates", he's framing as "missing content". Cause, you know, every other MMORPG out there has launched successfully with years' worth of content, and have never had to add new content post-launch.
He's basically nit-picking at non-issues. To what end? I have no idea. I'm not even sure he knows what he's getting at anymore.
You just made my point - these content updates are NORMAL for pay to play games. The OP is offering this up as some wildly unique altruistic action by Turbine when, in fact, they are doing what pay to play games do in providing content to keep people paying to play.
Basically, "any content that they're adding in the content updates", he's framing as "missing content". Cause, you know, every other MMORPG out there has launched successfully with years' worth of content, and have never had to add new content post-launch.
He's basically nit-picking at non-issues. To what end? I have no idea. I'm not even sure he knows what he's getting at anymore.
You just made my point - these content updates are NORMAL for pay to play games. The OP is offering this up as some wildly unique altruistic action by Turbine when, in fact, they are doing what pay to play games do in providing content to keep people paying to play.
Umm... I did?
Funny... I recall you stating in another post that what they're adding is basically "missing content" that wasn't in-game at launch, resulting in their "undeniable lack of content", and that it's not "free" because of blah blah blah...
Still, again, _so what_ if people see Turbine's updates as unique, or an altruistic action, or whatever? Perhaps based on their previous gaming experience, it is unique. And regardless, the point stands... Why does that matter to you? Why would you care? You're not playing the game anyway. Does it stick in your craw that people, -gasp- have a positive opinion of Turbine and how they're supporting the game?
"Oh no! People are posting positive opinions of a game company's on-going support of their game?! And it's a game I don't like?! Well, we just can't have that!" And in rushes AgtSmith to set everyone straight and save the day!
Seriously... once again.. You don't like the game. You don't play the game. We get it. What is your real issue with this game or company? Do you even have one? Or is your entire raison detre to just linger around here and scrutinize and nit-pick every little comment people make? That's all you're doing here.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
ohh FFS will you people please get a job. you unemployed basterds. and heres an idea, instead of playing these computer games why dont you play a game call REAL LIFE...
ohh FFS will you people please get a job. you unemployed basterds. and heres an idea, instead of playing these computer games why dont you play a game call REAL LIFE...
lol... So says someone named "boomheadshot" on a gaming-specific forum
Classic.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
I concurr. Somone that wants a hardcore forced grouping grindfest with a ton (I mean a ton) of depth and content really ought to be playing FFXI and leave the rest of us that don't have that kind of spare time in peace in LoTRO.
On topic....
I am honestly not the biggest Turbine fan. I love LoTRO, but think that they pretty much screwed the pooch on DDO (at least at luanch), and the crap they pulled in AC II was a complete and utter travesty. That said, anyone that knows beans about MMOs knows that Turbine has a well deserved reputation for adding tons of quality free content to their games. You are seriously deluded if you think WoW or EQ II added as much free content in their first 6 months as LoTRO is getting. To claim that doesn't further the discussion, it just shows that you don't know what you are talking about.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Forced grouping is old hat, Brad proved that last year. There will never be another forced grouping game from a major western developer or for that matter even a minor indie. As far as the WoW /EQII I never played WoW past the free 30 but in EQII they added a couple of small dungeons, no real "new" features or gameplay. This is my first experience with Turbine and so far I am impressed, they beat the shit out of SOE but that is not surprising..
I miss DAoC
Perhaps if the games cames out with all this features from the beggining (like free pvp... not need to reach x lvl... ) they got lot of more subscribers, that seems patches to avoid what they didnt did before...
this is what I love right here, gotta love these lifetime accounts. Just think in 2 more months they will be adding housing and more content even
a snippet from forums.lotro.com/showthread.php
New content:
New Areas:
Quests:
I miss DAoC
Correct me if I am wrong but this is a pay to play game, so it isn't free updates they are updates available to paying subscribers. That being said, turbine has allways pushed content out, but most big MMOs do as well, especially ones that are as linear and quest based as LotRO as the only thing to do, the only reason to pay for another month is to do the content. So I suppose credit is due but it is by no means free and the game design requires it be done.
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Correct me if I am wrong but this is a pay to play game, so it isn't free updates they are updates available to paying subscribers. That being said, turbine has allways pushed content out, but most big MMOs do as well, especially ones that are as linear and quest based as LotRO as the only thing to do, the only reason to pay for another month is to do the content. So I suppose credit is due but it is by no means free and the game design requires it be done.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
Powergamer isnt a title of respect either...all it means is you spend alot of time playing a game. Ask any girl if you dont believe me..see if they think its hot.
[URL="http://www.freecommenttags.com"][IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r307/freecommenttags/Animated/animated291.gif[/IMG][/URL]
dang, i messed that all up. i have no idea how to post funny animations in forums lol
anyways, i am one of the few who sees lotro starting in many ways the same way WoW did when it first came out aside from a better overall presentation after beta. Imo i hope lotro sticks to its guns and doesnt subside to constent massive updates too frequently and end up truly being perhaps not a WoW clone, but a very similar WoW time sink.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
As I said, credit where credit is due but the idea that it is free is inaccurate. Also, Turbine has released two MMOs (DDO and LotRO) now with an undeniable lack of content so while it is good they are publishing new content it is relaly just putting in what the game was missing. Not too many people, fans included, would say that either DDO or LotRO shipped with enough content for months of subscription play.
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Lots of content doesn't mean it's fun or enjoyable.
But most big MMOs don't do it in a regular basis like turbine does, one BIG update every 2 months, LOOK at WOW the MMO with more people paying how many content updates in last 8 months? 1 YES only one....Turbine will do 4 big content updates in 8 months huge difference here.
As I said, credit where credit is due but the idea that it is free is inaccurate. Also, Turbine has released two MMOs (DDO and LotRO) now with an undeniable lack of content so while it is good they are publishing new content it is relaly just putting in what the game was missing. Not too many people, fans included, would say that either DDO or LotRO shipped with enough content for months of subscription play.
This from someone who doesn't play the game, has indicated at least a few times that he doesn't like the game and doesn't intend to play it. Naww.. no bias there.
And "an undeniable lack of content"?
See... it's those "absolute" comments that irk me; people presuming to speak with an authority they do not have. "Undeniable" by whose definition, exactly? Sure, there's people who feel there's not enough in the game that they want to do. Any game has people who will feel that way, no matter how long it's been out or how much there is to do. There's that saying.. "You can't please everyone all the time"
However, what about all the people playing it who find there's plenty for them to do in the game, even without the content updates, and are having a great time? Do we just not include their impression of it?
Personally, I think the game has plenty to do... I enjoy hunting, and questing, and crafting. I enjoy playing with the music system, trying to figure out how to transcribe songs I know into the game. I enjoy wandering off in some random direction to see what's out there. So, for me, it is not at all "undeniable" that there's not enough content, because, even without the update, I'm finding there's plenty to keep me entertained. I've spoken to others who feel the same way. So certainly... not *everyone* feels there's too little content. Ergo... It's not "undeniable" that there's a lack of it.
Still, it's funny how people will always first assume that it must be some flaw in the design.. or some mistake by the designers... that the game doesn't cater specifically, or entirely, to what they're looking for. They never stop to think, "gee.. all these other people enjoy it, so they must be doing something right... Maybe it's just not the right game for me?"
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Seeing as how even Turbine acknowledge that there was a lack of high end content at launch it is perfectly fair to say LotRO had an undeniable lack of content. Clearly the plan was to launch the game and add in the middle/high end content - now they are doing that. Good for them, it is worth noting - but it is not free and they are not saints for doing it as the OP suggests.
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Can you provide a link where a Turbine Dev said there was a "undeniable lack of content" or are yuou just pulling your facts out of your ass like you normally do. As far as the free part , will there be a additional charge or is is it provided with the normal subscription. Unless your credit card gets hit with a additional charge then it is free and yes Turbine has been reccomended for sainthood according to my insider at the Vatican..
I miss DAoC
Oh my god it is unbelievable the rationalization fanboys do to elevate the object of their worship. You pay a monthly fee and get an update - yet you argue that you are paying for the additional content, or with the idea that the content is part of the subscription. It is a quest based game, without new quests there is no reason for even a fan to pay for a subscription so of course the content updates are a paid part of the subscription. As for the lack of content at launch, this is a widely known issue so look around the official sites if you want, why would I bother providing you a like you would just spin to suit your distorted view of reality anyways.
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Conversely the flaming trolls try to rationalize the Turbine updates as lack of something....
Turbine has since AC1 put out content updates at a much higher rate then anyone else on the market.
You can look at updates every-time and say 'that was missing from launch' Fact is, nobody had the launch Lotro had..nobody can deny that. Any additional content added to any game is a bonus. Turbine just made a name for them selves by putting one out at regular frequency.
Will book 11 having housing, month of the LM/Minstrel, 12 man raid's, and rumors of more area's being opened up, again they raise the bar.
(Edited to better state certain points and correct type-o's)
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades by "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In other words, in the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
When you continue to play semantics and argue at it, it just makes it seem all the more obvious that you've got no real issue with the game. You're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades against "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
What you're doing here amounts to a disingenuous play on semantics. Or, put more simply, nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking because you have some nebulous issue with the game and/or the developer.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
I agree, case closed.
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
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JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
(Edited to better state certain points and correct type-o's)
I only have one question for you, AgtSmith...
What server are you on in LoTRO and what are you playing? I refuse to believe someone would put so much time and energy into pointlessly arguing against a game he, supposedly, doesn't like, unless they were actually a closet fan of it or something. Or (willing?) victim of a very strange obsession. You may as well have a subscription. I seriously wonder if you don't spend more time obsessing over the game than I do actually playing it sometimes.
28 pages in another thread about whether it's a "success" or not. Now you're similarly nit-picking away and playing semantics in this one about whether or not it's really "free".
And once again, like in the other thread... I'm left to wonder what the hell is it, exactly that you're after here? It's gotta be some crusade to turn people against the game, or convince them they've made a terrible mistake by playing it and are all being misled to certain doom or something.
What's worse... "Rationalizations by fanboys" who actually play and enjoy the game as it is? Or never-ending crusades by "non-fans" to incessantly pick apart every little thing, trying to prove... who knows what? I say the latter. At least the "fan boys" have a vested interest in what they're defending. Why should what you think about a game that you don't play and by your own say-so have no intention to play matter to those who do play and enjoy it? You've given your opinion, and it's duly noted. What more do you want?
Now, I'm very used to people making disingenuous arguments - however thinly veiled - to try and make a point. After 3+ years watching alot of political talk-shows, seeing the best and worst of it from politicians and pundits, I can spot it a mile away. What really bothers me is when someone who, in other forums, has shown he's an intelligent guy and can formulate a well-grounded opinion blatantly spews out such intellectually dishonest stuff like you have in these forums.
What's worse is you fall-back on the most over-abused tactic, again, often used by politicians and pundits. That is, using strong-sounding words and phrases, like "it's undeniable", or "the fact of the matter is..." to attempt to eliminate all room for disagreement. It's transparent, and it doesn't fly.
You also have a penchant for taking details out of context and/or trying to extrapolate (exaggerate?) them into something more than they are.
You took a comment allegedly made by Turbine, specifically about the "end-game", eliminated the "end-game" detail and used it out of context, to apply to the whole game. I'm sure anyone who's been around or played MMOs will agree that "end game" is a very limited portion of the game - usually referring to raids or such; the things people do once they've reached level cap and have exhausted all other content up to that point. It does not apply to the entire game up to that point - yet that's how you framed it.
This is similar to what you did when you mentioned the droves of raving fan-boys you claim have all stated that LoTRO would be a WoW Killer, or however you phrased it. Yet, when challenged to do so, you could not provide any evidence of this.
What am I getting at? Well, besides that you enjoy taking things out of context and extrapolating on very limited or specific details...
Simple.. I think it's safe to assume that everyone knows what Turbine (and other companies) mean when they say "Free Content Updates". I think everyone knows and agrees that they refer to updates that do not come in the form of a separate retail or even pay-to-download package. That they are included, at no additional charge, for the normal subscription price. In other words, in the context that they add the content updates at *no additional fee* separate from the *subscription rate you are already paying anyway*, they are free content updates.
When you continue to play semantics and argue at it, it just makes it seem all the more obvious that you've got no real issue with the game. You're just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.
When I read some of your posts in the LoTRO forums, AgtSmith, I keep thinking of the scene from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" where Steve Martin tells John Candy, "Here's a suggestion... When you're telling these little stories... have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the listener!"
Or.. in this case... it gives the reader some semblence of what your point is in continuing to debate your obvious anti-LoTRO point-of-view in these forums. I have yet to figure out what your real issue is with the game, you have it so wrapped up in all these nit-picky non-points.
Excellent post!!Couldn't have said it better myself.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
what lack of content at lunch? 2200 quests, 4 lvl 50 instances, craft, deeds, etc. what was missing at lunch you always talking?
what lack of content at lunch? 2200 quests, 4 lvl 50 instances, craft, deeds, etc. what was missing at lunch you always talking?
Basically, "any content that they're adding in the content updates", Smith is calling "missing content", becuase, to him I guess, it should have all been there at launch.
'cause, you know, no other game developer ever adds new content post-launch.
He's basically nit-picking at non-issues. To what end? I have no idea.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You just made my point - these content updates are NORMAL for pay to play games. The OP is offering this up as some wildly unique altruistic action by Turbine when, in fact, they are doing what pay to play games do in providing content to keep people paying to play.
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You just made my point - these content updates are NORMAL for pay to play games. The OP is offering this up as some wildly unique altruistic action by Turbine when, in fact, they are doing what pay to play games do in providing content to keep people paying to play.
Umm... I did?
Funny... I recall you stating in another post that what they're adding is basically "missing content" that wasn't in-game at launch, resulting in their "undeniable lack of content", and that it's not "free" because of blah blah blah...
Still, again, _so what_ if people see Turbine's updates as unique, or an altruistic action, or whatever? Perhaps based on their previous gaming experience, it is unique. And regardless, the point stands... Why does that matter to you? Why would you care? You're not playing the game anyway. Does it stick in your craw that people, -gasp- have a positive opinion of Turbine and how they're supporting the game?
"Oh no! People are posting positive opinions of a game company's on-going support of their game?! And it's a game I don't like?! Well, we just can't have that!" And in rushes AgtSmith to set everyone straight and save the day!
Seriously... once again.. You don't like the game. You don't play the game. We get it. What is your real issue with this game or company? Do you even have one? Or is your entire raison detre to just linger around here and scrutinize and nit-pick every little comment people make? That's all you're doing here.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
ohh FFS will you people please get a job. you unemployed basterds. and heres an idea, instead of playing these computer games why dont you play a game call REAL LIFE...
lol... So says someone named "boomheadshot" on a gaming-specific forum
Classic.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops