It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
Nope!
You don't know how wrong and ridiculous that sounds do you? People who enjoy a particular game also enjoy going to said games MMO website or a general MMO website to give and get feedback on the game they like. Those people can go to their chosen game websites at any time. We generally don't play the game 24/7. What people don't want is to have some knucklehead continually banter the game. Dude you have made it perfectly clear you don't like the game, now move on.
What boggles my mind is why you or people like you have this rather unhealthy obsession with berating a game they obviously don't like. Did someone at Turbine run over your dog? Or steal your girlfriend? Wow man get a new hobby or something! All this negativity is gonna kill ya
Best, most immersive game I've played since the early days of EQ. I think with this game there is a big gap on whether you read the books or not. People who read the books seem to find it more immersive IMO.
So it's really a question on whether or not you can read.
You don't know how wrong and ridiculous that sounds do you? People who enjoy a particular game also enjoy going to said games MMO website or a general MMO website to give and get feedback on the game they like. Those people can go to their chosen game websites at any time. We generally don't play the game 24/7. What people don't want is to have some knucklehead continually banter the game. Dude you have made it perfectly clear you don't like the game, now move on. What boggles my mind is why you or people like you have this rather unhealthy obsession with berating a game they obviously don't like. Did someone at Turbine run over your dog? Or steal your girlfriend? Wow man get a new hobby or something! All this negativity is gonna kill ya
A) This is not the game's website so all discussions are fair game.
If you don't like that MMORPG's forums are fair game for positive and negative thoughts on games then don't read such topics.
C) Only an irrationally involved fanboy would call anything I have said here berating LotRO, is it glowing praise or mindless adoration - no; but it isn't incredibly negative or otherwise unreasonable criticism/commentary either.
Best, most immersive game I've played since the early days of EQ. I think with this game there is a big gap on whether you read the books or not. People who read the books seem to find it more immersive IMO. So it's really a question on whether or not you can read.
Can't agree more. One of the things I really love about this game is that it doesn't hold your hand by putting up big flashing arrows or markers to show you exactly where to go to accomplish your objective. You actually need to read the quest text and/or any items placed in your inventory to help accomplish the quest. It makes for a more immersive and satisfying experience.
I can approach this game from a bit different stand point. I am a power gamer in many aspects. I played many mmos and some were good and some were eh!!!! I never flamed those games I just left. DAOC was a game that started slower and grew to become in my estimation the best mmo ever. You people play WOW and talk about depth. I played for a year which is a short time for me. I did the big raids the pvp. WoW is quite forgetable. I am looking forward to Warhammer but I am sure I can play unpretentious LOTRO till it comes out. It does not pretend to be what it is not but it is pretty good. I am sure there will be more levels and lore content. I have seen DAOC mentioned. How many of you played the game from release. If you did you would know many of the things that Tyrbine is doing such as updates is very similar to what Mythic did/. I do know that one complaint is people flipping in pvp when one side is winning. You can solve that easily. Turbine just need to institute an hour wait to log back into pvp unless you use the same character you started with.
I do confess to that the love showed towards a very shallow game as COX is amazing. I do say if you like WoW or EQ2 then go play them. I can see the latter but if you love the former then go to it. I like Blizz and I have liked Turbine but I do find that LOTRO does fill a gap when others are old and the brightest hope is a year away.
It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
QFT!
Exactly the reason why I don't think he'll be visiting the 172k thread anymore. I think it's been pretty well proven that that number was made up to begin with... and then when all his other points were exposed for the slanted agenda that they were. Well, he's left with nothing more than his opinion.
Trouble is... he thinks he deserves more than his opinion. He thinks he deserves seeing someone eating crow. Heh... trouble is that in order for someone to eat crow... he needs to offer more than his opinion... which he can't.
The problem with folks like yourself is that you define 'discussing the game' as praising it. Nowhere have I said th egame is a flop, I have contested the asserion that it is a million sub type success. Nowhere in here did I berate the content I just contested the incorrect idea that it was either particuarly unusual or that it was free. In short, I contest inaccuracy.
As for continually telling me where I should and shouldn't post I suggest you go register a domain name and setup a server and site where you can tell people what to do because here you have no such authority whatsoever.
The problem with folks like yourself is that you define 'discussing the game' as praising it. Nowhere have I said th egame is a flop, I have contested the asserion that it is a million sub type success. Nowhere in here did I berate the content I just contested the incorrect idea that it was either particuarly unusual or that it was free. In short, I contest inaccuracy.
As for continually telling me where I should and shouldn't post I suggest you go register a domain name and setup a server and site where you can tell people what to do because here you have no such authority whatsoever.
99% of the time I respect others opinions and views including of course yours. You seem like an intelligent well rounded guy. My only issue with this is, to be completely honest, you're starting to sound like a broken record. You have made your point very clear in concise (and not so concise) posts in this thread. You should just let it go man. I think it's your bullheaded argumentative attitude that are rubbing people the wrong way.
But hey, I can be stubborn too if I feel I'm right. If continuing on with this topic floats your boat, then rock on with your bad self. I for one am done with this thread.
Give me a break and take your advice as to who should comment where and file it away. Saying I am 'not letting go' when others are posting as much saying the same wrong thing, namely that a pay to play game is giving away anything for free, is just insanely dumb. It is a forum, people post, some people post good things in terms of it agreeing with you and some don't. I suggest those of you who get your panties in a wad when someone argues strongly about something you disagree with consider avoiding places where that by their very nature are designed to allow such discussions to take place. Consider visiting, for instance, the Turbine LotRO forums where you have to be a fan, or at least paying subscriber, to participate and you will find a place where false statements and exaggerations by fans are not challenged as much.
It's too bad people just don't leave a game be for others to enjoy and go find a game they like to play themselves.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
QFT!
Exactly the reason why I don't think he'll be visiting the 172k thread anymore. I think it's been pretty well proven that that number was made up to begin with... and then when all his other points were exposed for the slanted agenda that they were. Well, he's left with nothing more than his opinion.
Trouble is... he thinks he deserves more than his opinion. He thinks he deserves seeing someone eating crow. Heh... trouble is that in order for someone to eat crow... he needs to offer more than his opinion... which he can't.
So do you, like Jackdog, claim that LOTRO has sold a million or more copies? Cause if you read the "172k" thread Jackdog, one of the ones I would classify as a fanboi, is saying he believes millions of people are playing. His reasons are pretty flimsy but the claim is there nonetheless. If people are free to continually make wild claims about how successful a game is then imo its fair others to call them on it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Give me a break and take your advice as to who should comment where and file it away. Saying I am 'not letting go' when others are posting as much saying the same wrong thing, namely that a pay to play game is giving away anything for free, is just insanely dumb. It is a forum, people post, some people post good things in terms of it agreeing with you and some don't. I suggest those of you who get your panties in a wad when someone argues strongly about something you disagree with consider avoiding places where that by their very nature are designed to allow such discussions to take place. Consider visiting, for instance, the Turbine LotRO forums where you have to be a fan, or at least paying subscriber, to participate and you will find a place where false statements and exaggerations by fans are not challenged as much.
well at least there you will find people that play the game and has a valid opinion.
Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
The problem with folks like yourself is that you define 'discussing the game' as praising it. Nowhere have I said th egame is a flop, I have contested the asserion that it is a million sub type success. Nowhere in here did I berate the content I just contested the incorrect idea that it was either particuarly unusual or that it was free. In short, I contest inaccuracy.
As for continually telling me where I should and shouldn't post I suggest you go register a domain name and setup a server and site where you can tell people what to do because here you have no such authority whatsoever.
And this is why it's pointless to try to debate anything with you; it's a complete and utter waste of time. You're about as lucid as a brick wall.
Once again, you selectively read what you want and interpret it your own way. Where in "negative opinions" do you get the meaning "praising it"? I personally, specifically said I welcome negative opinions, which are part of a "discussion". I, and I think others here, will never shoot down nor dismiss any comment, so long as the points are well-reasoned and/or adequately supported by verifiable facts. However, the latter, especially, is where you have consistently fallen short. Throwing out random details you claim as facts while refusing to back them up should not and will not be taken seriously.
Another example is how you still insist it's "just plain wrong" to refer to updates that are pretty much universally, here, in and in many, many other places referred to as 'Free'. You persist in taking the word out of context and playing semantics with it - for no demonstrable reason than to argue pointlessly; you haven't been affected by it either way.
It's the simplest concept to comprehend, but it requires that you actually take off the blinders, let go of the mantra and put it in the *context* of how it's used. That context is you are *not paying anything extra for them*.
I'll make one last attempt here to break it down and make it as simple as possible for you.
Let's represent the game, including only the content it was released with at retail, before any updates, as 'A'. We'll exclude bug fixes as those aren't "content". Let's just assume everyone went with the $14 subscription rate, to make it easy.
So.. to continue playing 'A', beyond the month included in the retail price, you are paying $14 a month.
Now, along comes a content update... It includes new areas, new quests, new gear and a variety of new content. We'll call that 'B'. You don't have to buy anything separate, there's no pay-to-download updater or anything. They don't increase the subscription rate. There is absolutely zero additional cost incurred by you.
So, 'A' + 'B' = $14 a month.
The same as 'A' by itself was costing you. Additional content, no extra charge, same subscription rate.
Following me so far?
Imagine a year down the line, at 1 update every 2 months... That's all the original content, for which you were paying $14 a month anyway. *Plus* 6 significant content updates that, again, you didn't pay anything extra out of pocket to obtain.
A + B + C + D + E + F + G = $14 a month.
6 significant content updates, no extra charge for them, no increase in subscription rate. You have received all that extra content and aren't paying 1 red penny more than you were a year earlier when the game was still new.
When you receive something without having to pay anything extra for it, it's generally considered "free". You aren't paying anything extra for the content updates. Ergo, the content updates are "free".
Now.. when they release their first retail expansion? Yes, then you can say "that wasn't free" because there will have been an actual fee to purchase it - whatever the retail cost is. However, the bi-monthly content updates are indeed free.
Hardly anyone else has any trouble understanding this. Magazine writers acknowledge it as such. Website writers acknowledge it as such. Many, many people acknowledge it as such. Only AgtSmith here on the mmorpg.com forums can't seem to comprehend it and is on a crusade to unveil some great 'lie' in it that only he and a handful of others see. So what's the deal with you? Does it just not sink in, or are you just stubbornly holding on to it in the face of common-sense for fear of having to admit that, perhaps, you were mistaken? I really think it's the latter.
Again, no one's telling you not to debate or discuss - and yes, that includes negative opinions (please read that until it sinks in) - however, that means doing so in a reasonable manner. Randomly throwing out details you claim as facts while refusing to provide reference to them, then crying "fanboy" when people challenge you is not debating, it's not discussing. It's aimless and pointless arguing.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
well at least there you will find people that play the game and has a valid opinion.
Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
So only a paying player has a valid opinion? With that ridiculous thought you just gave everyone the very definition of 'fanboy'.
As for Mike, I am not saying it is not a good thing that turbine is doing, or of note at least. turbine, as I said in this thread, has a history of shipping well crafted content and supplementing it after launch. Being a part of the LotRO community for some time pre-launch they where clear about their development goal of shipping the game with a very complete and very well crafted start and adding more content later. is this a good thing, I suppose. Is it praise worthy - perhaps. But is it some altruistic free gift as the OP and others suggest - not hardly. Consider other subscription products - like magazines. Each month you get a completely new magazine but nobody would say it is free by any stretch. Turbine opted with LotRO to do what they did with DDO and ship a smaller amount of very well finished content and supplement it later - again it is their MO. Just because they are now following through on what they said they would do all along doesn't make it very unusual, very praiseworthy (although refreshing in a way), and certainly doesn't make it free. Your logic on the pay system is just flawed. People re-buy LotRO (or any sub based MMO) each month when thier previous 30 day sub expires. In this case turbine is offering a carrot of new content to get people to re-buy but they are simply and factually not giving anything away for free. I seriously cannot believe you even argue this, I mean while you wail on me for being some monumental basher nothing I have said here, and little I have said elsewhere really qualifies as such. It is you, and other fanboys like you, insistence on pouncing on any comment that doesn't radiate incredible praise as being a complete slam that is ridiculous and immature as evidenced by your sides insistence that those who disagree not voice their opinion. It is quite easy to spot the weaker side in any argument as it is always the ones who criticize the fact that there is an argument.
The reason why a person paying to play has a more valid opinion is becasue they actually PLAY. They are up to date on everything that is going on in game. If you don't play all your information would be second hand information and thus just here say. The only other people with a valid opinion would be those who just canceled but as soon as a new update arrives their opinion becomes pretty much useless and baseless because things have changed.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
That is patently ridiculous. The logical extension of what you are saying is that only positive opinions are valid as, obviously, those with negative opinions will not be playing anymore. Seriously, think about what that broken logic suggests. I don't have to have ever played it, although I did, to be able to comment with validity on the subject of this thread as the subject has nothing to do with the game or its content but with the fact that people are saying they are getting something for free when you have to pay a monthly subscription to play the game.
I have no doubt that the fanboys think this way but it is entirely moronic and flat out wrong and indicative of the immaturity and lack of intellect of those who blindly adore a game, or anything.
That is patently ridiculous. The logical extension of what you are saying is that only positive opinions are valid as, obviously, those with negative opinions will not be playing anymore. Seriously, think about what that broken logic suggests. I don't have to have ever played it, although I did, to be able to comment with validity on the subject of this thread as the subject has nothing to do with the game or its content but with the fact that people are saying they are getting something for free when you have to pay a monthly subscription to play the game.
I have no doubt that the fanboys think this way but it is entirely moronic and flat out wrong and indicative of the immaturity and lack of intellect of those who blindly adore a game, or anything.
No, my comment was on a more general basis and not based on the OP. Also there are people who play who have negative comments but are constructive and trying to help with critisism. I have yet to see you post about how to make the game better. If you have then I have overlooked it. Also I never said positive opinions are the only valid ones, you surmised incorrectly.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I don't know what the rest of you are talking about. I am a casual gamer, and I didn't even get to the level cap before I was bored to tears.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Did you report him for saying he didn't know what you are talking about? Its called a figure of speech. Man, you've lost it seabass, seriously, way to waste mods time.
well at least there you will find people that play the game and has a valid opinion.
Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
So only a paying player has a valid opinion? With that ridiculous thought you just gave everyone the very definition of 'fanboy'.
As for Mike, I am not saying it is not a good thing that turbine is doing, or of note at least. turbine, as I said in this thread, has a history of shipping well crafted content and supplementing it after launch. Being a part of the LotRO community for some time pre-launch they where clear about their development goal of shipping the game with a very complete and very well crafted start and adding more content later. is this a good thing, I suppose. Is it praise worthy - perhaps. But is it some altruistic free gift as the OP and others suggest - not hardly. Consider other subscription products - like magazines. Each month you get a completely new magazine but nobody would say it is free by any stretch. Turbine opted with LotRO to do what they did with DDO and ship a smaller amount of very well finished content and supplement it later - again it is their MO. Just because they are now following through on what they said they would do all along doesn't make it very unusual, very praiseworthy (although refreshing in a way), and certainly doesn't make it free. Your logic on the pay system is just flawed. People re-buy LotRO (or any sub based MMO) each month when thier previous 30 day sub expires. In this case turbine is offering a carrot of new content to get people to re-buy but they are simply and factually not giving anything away for free. I seriously cannot believe you even argue this, I mean while you wail on me for being some monumental basher nothing I have said here, and little I have said elsewhere really qualifies as such. It is you, and other fanboys like you, insistence on pouncing on any comment that doesn't radiate incredible praise as being a complete slam that is ridiculous and immature as evidenced by your sides insistence that those who disagree not voice their opinion. It is quite easy to spot the weaker side in any argument as it is always the ones who criticize the fact that there is an argument.
I think I can sum you up pretty quickly here...
AgtSmith is always right. His views are righteous and wise. All opposing views are flawed. Don't ask him to back up anything he states as fact, because he is all-knowing and doesn't need to prove anything. AgtSmith doesn't need any kind of point to say something; if he says it, it's Truth. To disagree with anything he says is to be a "fanboy".
Yeah, I think that's about right.
That said... See, you can go into this long, elaborate analysis of why the content updates, in your estimation, aren't "free".. and use profound-sounding one-liners, like your closer, in lieu of the "fanboy" card, but still designed to try and make you seem more "right"...
I'll stick with Occam's Razor... All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the right one.
In this case...
I'm paying $14 for X-amount of content. A whole bunch of new content is added on, giving me more content than I had been paying for up to that point, yet, I didn't have to pay anything more for it. I'm still paying the same $14 I was paying prior to the new content being added. The simplest answer is, the content was free. The concept holds true regardless of what game we might be discussing. But what do I know.. I'm just a fanboy.
It's not "logic", guy.. it's common-sense. And it's the same thing many, many other people see it as as well - Google it if you want to verify this for yourself (I know, verifying anything is an alien concept to you... but just in case you feel like doing something totally out of character...). Again, including writers for many publications, online and in print. But of course, they're all wrong, too. Just more fanboys.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That is patently ridiculous. The logical extension of what you are saying is that only positive opinions are valid as, obviously, those with negative opinions will not be playing anymore. Seriously, think about what that broken logic suggests. I don't have to have ever played it, although I did, to be able to comment with validity on the subject of this thread as the subject has nothing to do with the game or its content but with the fact that people are saying they are getting something for free when you have to pay a monthly subscription to play the game.
I have no doubt that the fanboys think this way but it is entirely moronic and flat out wrong and indicative of the immaturity and lack of intellect of those who blindly adore a game, or anything.
No, my comment was on a more general basis and not based on the OP. Also there are people who play who have negative comments but are constructive and trying to help with critisism. I have yet to see you post about how to make the game better. If you have then I have overlooked it. Also I never said positive opinions are the only valid ones, you surmised incorrectly.
Shhh.. stop criticizing AgtSmith's posts. He is obviously superior to us lowly "fanboys" and beyond criticism or disagreement. Now he's gonna have to come in here and set you straight.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Word.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
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Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
Nope!You don't know how wrong and ridiculous that sounds do you? People who enjoy a particular game also enjoy going to said games MMO website or a general MMO website to give and get feedback on the game they like. Those people can go to their chosen game websites at any time. We generally don't play the game 24/7. What people don't want is to have some knucklehead continually banter the game. Dude you have made it perfectly clear you don't like the game, now move on.
What boggles my mind is why you or people like you have this rather unhealthy obsession with berating a game they obviously don't like. Did someone at Turbine run over your dog? Or steal your girlfriend? Wow man get a new hobby or something! All this negativity is gonna kill ya
Best, most immersive game I've played since the early days of EQ. I think with this game there is a big gap on whether you read the books or not. People who read the books seem to find it more immersive IMO.
So it's really a question on whether or not you can read.
A) This is not the game's website so all discussions are fair game.
C) Only an irrationally involved fanboy would call anything I have said here berating LotRO, is it glowing praise or mindless adoration - no; but it isn't incredibly negative or otherwise unreasonable criticism/commentary either.
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Can't agree more. One of the things I really love about this game is that it doesn't hold your hand by putting up big flashing arrows or markers to show you exactly where to go to accomplish your objective. You actually need to read the quest text and/or any items placed in your inventory to help accomplish the quest. It makes for a more immersive and satisfying experience.
I can approach this game from a bit different stand point. I am a power gamer in many aspects. I played many mmos and some were good and some were eh!!!! I never flamed those games I just left. DAOC was a game that started slower and grew to become in my estimation the best mmo ever. You people play WOW and talk about depth. I played for a year which is a short time for me. I did the big raids the pvp. WoW is quite forgetable. I am looking forward to Warhammer but I am sure I can play unpretentious LOTRO till it comes out. It does not pretend to be what it is not but it is pretty good. I am sure there will be more levels and lore content. I have seen DAOC mentioned. How many of you played the game from release. If you did you would know many of the things that Tyrbine is doing such as updates is very similar to what Mythic did/. I do know that one complaint is people flipping in pvp when one side is winning. You can solve that easily. Turbine just need to institute an hour wait to log back into pvp unless you use the same character you started with.
I do confess to that the love showed towards a very shallow game as COX is amazing. I do say if you like WoW or EQ2 then go play them. I can see the latter but if you love the former then go to it. I like Blizz and I have liked Turbine but I do find that LOTRO does fill a gap when others are old and the brightest hope is a year away.
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
@AgtSmith:
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's How Turbine Rolls, Ive played Asheron's Call since launch and only payed for 2 Xpacs and the other 96 monthly updates were free
Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
@AgtSmith:
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
QFT!Exactly the reason why I don't think he'll be visiting the 172k thread anymore. I think it's been pretty well proven that that number was made up to begin with... and then when all his other points were exposed for the slanted agenda that they were. Well, he's left with nothing more than his opinion.
Trouble is... he thinks he deserves more than his opinion. He thinks he deserves seeing someone eating crow. Heh... trouble is that in order for someone to eat crow... he needs to offer more than his opinion... which he can't.
The problem with folks like yourself is that you define 'discussing the game' as praising it. Nowhere have I said th egame is a flop, I have contested the asserion that it is a million sub type success. Nowhere in here did I berate the content I just contested the incorrect idea that it was either particuarly unusual or that it was free. In short, I contest inaccuracy.
As for continually telling me where I should and shouldn't post I suggest you go register a domain name and setup a server and site where you can tell people what to do because here you have no such authority whatsoever.
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99% of the time I respect others opinions and views including of course yours. You seem like an intelligent well rounded guy. My only issue with this is, to be completely honest, you're starting to sound like a broken record. You have made your point very clear in concise (and not so concise) posts in this thread. You should just let it go man. I think it's your bullheaded argumentative attitude that are rubbing people the wrong way.
But hey, I can be stubborn too if I feel I'm right. If continuing on with this topic floats your boat, then rock on with your bad self. I for one am done with this thread.
Give me a break and take your advice as to who should comment where and file it away. Saying I am 'not letting go' when others are posting as much saying the same wrong thing, namely that a pay to play game is giving away anything for free, is just insanely dumb. It is a forum, people post, some people post good things in terms of it agreeing with you and some don't. I suggest those of you who get your panties in a wad when someone argues strongly about something you disagree with consider avoiding places where that by their very nature are designed to allow such discussions to take place. Consider visiting, for instance, the Turbine LotRO forums where you have to be a fan, or at least paying subscriber, to participate and you will find a place where false statements and exaggerations by fans are not challenged as much.
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Word.
What is really 'too bad' is that fans who say they love a game so much feel it is necessary to stifle people on a gaming website from discussing games. Seems to me if you fanboys love the game so much you should be spending yoru time playing it and not spend yoru time browsing a general MMO website, I know if I had an MMO I was interested in playing now I would be playing it and not browsing this site discussing MMOs in general. I certainly would never come to a gaming site and tell people they shouldn't be talking about games as that would be pretty stupid.
As usual, you are reading what you want and not what the people are saying. No one says that people shouldn't discuss the game or point out negative aspects of it. That's part of regular player discussion. However, on any remotely moderated board system, you would have long been moderated for the constant rants and negativity about a game that you don't play. Luckily, you have kept most of this to two threads.
You feel the game is a flop and a failure. You have repeatedly ignored any facts or information that does not agree with your views. You have made up this straw man of "all these people" who said LOTRO will sell millions, and that is only one of the many false premises you base your views on.
Look, dude, your obsession with setting the "fanbois" straight is a little weird. It's just a game. You don't want to hear anything other than what you already believe, so I don't know what to tell you other than, please, move on. This relentless pursuit of yours might be of someworth if you were willing to accept anything presented from the other side, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't want to hear it.
If you were here to discuss the game, that's one thing, but you haven't shown any real willingness to discuss anything.
You put that far more concisely than I could have. Though I don't think AgtSmith has ever outright said it was a flop or a failure; just that it's not as successful as he feels others have made it out to be. Which, I still don't understand why that should make any difference to anyone - him or otherwise - to warrant 26+ pages of it. That said...
@AgtSmith:
As Lynx pointed out, no one is saying "keep your filthy negative opinions of the game out of these forums". I welcome negative opinions, as do many others.
The problem is, in this and the "172k" thread, you're not expressing opinions.. you are throwing out information you claim to be "facts" to shoot down others' comments. That's the difference. Something offered as an opinion needs only be reasonably stated. Something stated as fact, however, bears a burden of proof and needs to be verifiable. And this is where you fall short. That you change the specifics of such information from one post to another does compound the lack of any official reference and casts further doubt on your statements. That you cry "fanboy!" when challenged over it only further compounds it.
It further supports the notion that you have no real point for posting other than to nay-say a game you don't like, because that's about the only obvious thing anyone can glean from your posts. Thus, the refrain of "Yes, we get it.. You don't like the game". I've seen you state your opinions, quite eloquently, in other threads, so it's not like I think you're just some lunkhead. Something about this game, or perhaps just the relevant topics seems to have completely derailed you into wild flailing.
You have demonstrated a penchant for going on tangents to "obsession" like extremes. You throw out alleged facts and figures without any kind of reference to back them up, even when asked to do so. When people challenge you on them, you immediately play the "fanboy" card, which is tantamount to saying "I have no real counter-argument, so I'm just going to insult you instead" Try using those tactics in any other setting and see how seriously you're taken.
Case in point... right in this thread, you make repeated references, with varying detail, to comments made by Turbine themselves about the lack of content in the game at launch - without providing any kind of link to where this was stated. I asked you to do so - you still haven't, yet you continued to cite them. You did the same thing in the "172k" thread. When someone challenges you on it, you play the "fanboy" card again. When I pointed out that your assertion of what Turbine has stated was inconsistent, you come back and query whether I might have emotional issues. Again, you fail to back up your claims, and resort instead to using insults.
Similarly, in the other thread where you keep talking about all these rabid "fanboys" who claimed the game would do as well as WoW or whatever.. Again, you were asked to provide references to those statements.. You failed to do so but kept referring to them to bolster your argument, while throwing the "fanboy" card around.
So, in short, you've made it very clear that you enjoy coming into forums, throwing around various statements as "proof", refuse to back any of it up with verifiable references and then accuse anyone who calls what you say into question a "fanboy".
With that behavior, how can you expect people to react to you with anything but incredulity?
QFT!Exactly the reason why I don't think he'll be visiting the 172k thread anymore. I think it's been pretty well proven that that number was made up to begin with... and then when all his other points were exposed for the slanted agenda that they were. Well, he's left with nothing more than his opinion.
Trouble is... he thinks he deserves more than his opinion. He thinks he deserves seeing someone eating crow. Heh... trouble is that in order for someone to eat crow... he needs to offer more than his opinion... which he can't.
So do you, like Jackdog, claim that LOTRO has sold a million or more copies? Cause if you read the "172k" thread Jackdog, one of the ones I would classify as a fanboi, is saying he believes millions of people are playing. His reasons are pretty flimsy but the claim is there nonetheless. If people are free to continually make wild claims about how successful a game is then imo its fair others to call them on it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
And this is why it's pointless to try to debate anything with you; it's a complete and utter waste of time. You're about as lucid as a brick wall.
Once again, you selectively read what you want and interpret it your own way. Where in "negative opinions" do you get the meaning "praising it"? I personally, specifically said I welcome negative opinions, which are part of a "discussion". I, and I think others here, will never shoot down nor dismiss any comment, so long as the points are well-reasoned and/or adequately supported by verifiable facts. However, the latter, especially, is where you have consistently fallen short. Throwing out random details you claim as facts while refusing to back them up should not and will not be taken seriously.
Another example is how you still insist it's "just plain wrong" to refer to updates that are pretty much universally, here, in and in many, many other places referred to as 'Free'. You persist in taking the word out of context and playing semantics with it - for no demonstrable reason than to argue pointlessly; you haven't been affected by it either way.
It's the simplest concept to comprehend, but it requires that you actually take off the blinders, let go of the mantra and put it in the *context* of how it's used. That context is you are *not paying anything extra for them*.
I'll make one last attempt here to break it down and make it as simple as possible for you.
Let's represent the game, including only the content it was released with at retail, before any updates, as 'A'. We'll exclude bug fixes as those aren't "content". Let's just assume everyone went with the $14 subscription rate, to make it easy.
So.. to continue playing 'A', beyond the month included in the retail price, you are paying $14 a month.
Now, along comes a content update... It includes new areas, new quests, new gear and a variety of new content. We'll call that 'B'. You don't have to buy anything separate, there's no pay-to-download updater or anything. They don't increase the subscription rate. There is absolutely zero additional cost incurred by you.
So, 'A' + 'B' = $14 a month.
The same as 'A' by itself was costing you. Additional content, no extra charge, same subscription rate.
Following me so far?
Imagine a year down the line, at 1 update every 2 months... That's all the original content, for which you were paying $14 a month anyway. *Plus* 6 significant content updates that, again, you didn't pay anything extra out of pocket to obtain.
A + B + C + D + E + F + G = $14 a month.
6 significant content updates, no extra charge for them, no increase in subscription rate. You have received all that extra content and aren't paying 1 red penny more than you were a year earlier when the game was still new.
When you receive something without having to pay anything extra for it, it's generally considered "free". You aren't paying anything extra for the content updates. Ergo, the content updates are "free".
Now.. when they release their first retail expansion? Yes, then you can say "that wasn't free" because there will have been an actual fee to purchase it - whatever the retail cost is. However, the bi-monthly content updates are indeed free.
Hardly anyone else has any trouble understanding this. Magazine writers acknowledge it as such. Website writers acknowledge it as such. Many, many people acknowledge it as such. Only AgtSmith here on the mmorpg.com forums can't seem to comprehend it and is on a crusade to unveil some great 'lie' in it that only he and a handful of others see. So what's the deal with you? Does it just not sink in, or are you just stubbornly holding on to it in the face of common-sense for fear of having to admit that, perhaps, you were mistaken? I really think it's the latter.
Again, no one's telling you not to debate or discuss - and yes, that includes negative opinions (please read that until it sinks in) - however, that means doing so in a reasonable manner. Randomly throwing out details you claim as facts while refusing to provide reference to them, then crying "fanboy" when people challenge you is not debating, it's not discussing. It's aimless and pointless arguing.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
So only a paying player has a valid opinion? With that ridiculous thought you just gave everyone the very definition of 'fanboy'.
As for Mike, I am not saying it is not a good thing that turbine is doing, or of note at least. turbine, as I said in this thread, has a history of shipping well crafted content and supplementing it after launch. Being a part of the LotRO community for some time pre-launch they where clear about their development goal of shipping the game with a very complete and very well crafted start and adding more content later. is this a good thing, I suppose. Is it praise worthy - perhaps. But is it some altruistic free gift as the OP and others suggest - not hardly. Consider other subscription products - like magazines. Each month you get a completely new magazine but nobody would say it is free by any stretch. Turbine opted with LotRO to do what they did with DDO and ship a smaller amount of very well finished content and supplement it later - again it is their MO. Just because they are now following through on what they said they would do all along doesn't make it very unusual, very praiseworthy (although refreshing in a way), and certainly doesn't make it free. Your logic on the pay system is just flawed. People re-buy LotRO (or any sub based MMO) each month when thier previous 30 day sub expires. In this case turbine is offering a carrot of new content to get people to re-buy but they are simply and factually not giving anything away for free. I seriously cannot believe you even argue this, I mean while you wail on me for being some monumental basher nothing I have said here, and little I have said elsewhere really qualifies as such. It is you, and other fanboys like you, insistence on pouncing on any comment that doesn't radiate incredible praise as being a complete slam that is ridiculous and immature as evidenced by your sides insistence that those who disagree not voice their opinion. It is quite easy to spot the weaker side in any argument as it is always the ones who criticize the fact that there is an argument.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The reason why a person paying to play has a more valid opinion is becasue they actually PLAY. They are up to date on everything that is going on in game. If you don't play all your information would be second hand information and thus just here say. The only other people with a valid opinion would be those who just canceled but as soon as a new update arrives their opinion becomes pretty much useless and baseless because things have changed.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
That is patently ridiculous. The logical extension of what you are saying is that only positive opinions are valid as, obviously, those with negative opinions will not be playing anymore. Seriously, think about what that broken logic suggests. I don't have to have ever played it, although I did, to be able to comment with validity on the subject of this thread as the subject has nothing to do with the game or its content but with the fact that people are saying they are getting something for free when you have to pay a monthly subscription to play the game.
I have no doubt that the fanboys think this way but it is entirely moronic and flat out wrong and indicative of the immaturity and lack of intellect of those who blindly adore a game, or anything.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
No, my comment was on a more general basis and not based on the OP. Also there are people who play who have negative comments but are constructive and trying to help with critisism. I have yet to see you post about how to make the game better. If you have then I have overlooked it. Also I never said positive opinions are the only valid ones, you surmised incorrectly.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I don't know what the rest of you are talking about. I am a casual gamer, and I didn't even get to the level cap before I was bored to tears.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Did you report him for saying he didn't know what you are talking about? Its called a figure of speech. Man, you've lost it seabass, seriously, way to waste mods time.
well at least there you will find people that play the game and has a valid opinion.Discuss a subject with someone that don't play the game it's hard.
So only a paying player has a valid opinion? With that ridiculous thought you just gave everyone the very definition of 'fanboy'.
As for Mike, I am not saying it is not a good thing that turbine is doing, or of note at least. turbine, as I said in this thread, has a history of shipping well crafted content and supplementing it after launch. Being a part of the LotRO community for some time pre-launch they where clear about their development goal of shipping the game with a very complete and very well crafted start and adding more content later. is this a good thing, I suppose. Is it praise worthy - perhaps. But is it some altruistic free gift as the OP and others suggest - not hardly. Consider other subscription products - like magazines. Each month you get a completely new magazine but nobody would say it is free by any stretch. Turbine opted with LotRO to do what they did with DDO and ship a smaller amount of very well finished content and supplement it later - again it is their MO. Just because they are now following through on what they said they would do all along doesn't make it very unusual, very praiseworthy (although refreshing in a way), and certainly doesn't make it free. Your logic on the pay system is just flawed. People re-buy LotRO (or any sub based MMO) each month when thier previous 30 day sub expires. In this case turbine is offering a carrot of new content to get people to re-buy but they are simply and factually not giving anything away for free. I seriously cannot believe you even argue this, I mean while you wail on me for being some monumental basher nothing I have said here, and little I have said elsewhere really qualifies as such. It is you, and other fanboys like you, insistence on pouncing on any comment that doesn't radiate incredible praise as being a complete slam that is ridiculous and immature as evidenced by your sides insistence that those who disagree not voice their opinion. It is quite easy to spot the weaker side in any argument as it is always the ones who criticize the fact that there is an argument.
I think I can sum you up pretty quickly here...
AgtSmith is always right. His views are righteous and wise. All opposing views are flawed. Don't ask him to back up anything he states as fact, because he is all-knowing and doesn't need to prove anything. AgtSmith doesn't need any kind of point to say something; if he says it, it's Truth. To disagree with anything he says is to be a "fanboy".
Yeah, I think that's about right.
That said... See, you can go into this long, elaborate analysis of why the content updates, in your estimation, aren't "free".. and use profound-sounding one-liners, like your closer, in lieu of the "fanboy" card, but still designed to try and make you seem more "right"...
I'll stick with Occam's Razor... All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the right one.
In this case...
I'm paying $14 for X-amount of content. A whole bunch of new content is added on, giving me more content than I had been paying for up to that point, yet, I didn't have to pay anything more for it. I'm still paying the same $14 I was paying prior to the new content being added. The simplest answer is, the content was free. The concept holds true regardless of what game we might be discussing. But what do I know.. I'm just a fanboy.
It's not "logic", guy.. it's common-sense. And it's the same thing many, many other people see it as as well - Google it if you want to verify this for yourself (I know, verifying anything is an alien concept to you... but just in case you feel like doing something totally out of character...). Again, including writers for many publications, online and in print. But of course, they're all wrong, too. Just more fanboys.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
No, my comment was on a more general basis and not based on the OP. Also there are people who play who have negative comments but are constructive and trying to help with critisism. I have yet to see you post about how to make the game better. If you have then I have overlooked it. Also I never said positive opinions are the only valid ones, you surmised incorrectly.
Shhh.. stop criticizing AgtSmith's posts. He is obviously superior to us lowly "fanboys" and beyond criticism or disagreement. Now he's gonna have to come in here and set you straight.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops