You dwell on those beta announcement to much, so you are blind to see anything positive with the game.
What exactly is positive? Every year for the last 5 years they said beta was about to start, and it never has. They only went to one gaming convention, and didn't even bring the game. As the OP points out, they haven't shown us 90% of the features that are supposed to be in the game. Their latest video just shows backgrounds and some character models.
What is there to be positive about? What facts show us that the game will be released soon? There are none.
See, now you are there again.
What are you trying to accomplish here if you don't have any interest in the game or see anything positive with it? Just argument against us who looking forward to a new game? Aye, that's it. You just turned yourself into a troll.
Are you feeling proud over yourself? almost 40 years old and act like a teenager who are in need of attention. Or if this isn't the case, please enlight everyone here why you act like you do against us.
/Signed
Id also like to know what ghoul31:s intention here on the board is? You really think anything youd say would make us drop interest even the slightest? More likely it will work the other way arround, we the fanbois merge together even tighter the more negativism you deliver us.
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold.
FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed.
FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times.
FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold. FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed. FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times. FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
I'll take this one!
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold. FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed. FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times. FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold. FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed. FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times. FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
Well if you use Logic or your brain as you stated we do not then you would see the issue in your logic.
FACT: Adventurine has a small staff of programmers/designers.
FACT: AoC has a huge staff of programmers/designers/PR reps and many others.
FACT: AoC and WAR are being made by companies with game making experince.
FACT: Due to Darkfalls massive world, rule set, feature list it is going to take a long time to make.
What does all this mean? Simple
AoC and WaR has Double even triple the number of staff on the project as Darkfall and it will take them 5 to 6 years to release a full version.
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others.
If I remember correctly both AoC and WAR have pushed back thier release dates and beta dates a few times.
Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold. FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed. FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times. FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
Well if you use Logic or your brain as you stated we do not then you would see the issue in your logic.
FACT: Adventurine has a small staff of programmers/designers.
FACT: AoC has a huge staff of programmers/designers/PR reps and many others.
FACT: AoC and WAR are being made by companies with game making experince.
FACT: Due to Darkfalls massive world, rule set, feature list it is going to take a long time to make.
What does all this mean? Simple
AoC and WaR has Double even triple the number of staff on the project as Darkfall and it will take them 5 to 6 years to release a full version.
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others.
If I remember correctly both AoC and WAR have pushed back thier release dates and beta dates a few times.
Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
But what is logic? Logic sucks for your arguments
And Darkfall ain't aiming for a gear/levelbased game, they know it wont be huge as WoW. And we know it to. We only want atleast one sandboxgame. If it is a market for it? Aye, I think so.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Ghoul31 - thank you for the links. When you make quotes or present evidence for an argument, linking one's sources is the best way to support them. You shouldn't expect readers to do it, it is really the responsibility of the person presenting the evidence to back it up, as you now have done. It adds credence to the point you're making.
Originally posted by TdogSkal
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others. Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
Actually logic would state that a much smaller company trying to produce a much more complex product would have a much higher chance of not succeeding when there have been larger companies in the past that failed to produce less complex products. The Darkfall hype is really based more on faith rather than logic at this stage, and that's okay - up to a point.
Originally posted by Gishgeron
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!" He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long.
Partly agree with this, though not in the inflammatory way it was phrased. People are asking why Ghoul31 is going through all this trouble. I think I can answer that.
How many times has the MMORPG community been burned by developers? How many times have developers made promises that only turned out to be deceptions? And yet the community still gets excited when one comes along and claims they have the next game that will change everything with nothing more to back it up than screenshots and a video or two. (I don't mean Darkfall but games like Gods and Heroes and Dark and Light)
Developers act that way because they know they can get away with it. The MMORPG community has historically been very easy to abuse. Developers could release half-finished pieces of junk and expect the MMORPG community to pay to beta-test them. And the community would let them.
The MMORPG community has learned a little, and Ghoul31 is pointing out another thing that should be learned. It's easy to get excited about a new game, believe the hype and tell everyone it's going to be awesome like the Developer promises. It's harder to do your own research, demand actual evidence (public demos, game mechanic info, interviews with major gaming mags/sites etc) and question the developers constantly if a game seems to be going along less than smoothly.
I'm not sayign Darkfall is vaporware or that it won't be released. I am saying the Darkfall followers should stop claiming this game is the Second Coming unless a LOT more actual evidence starts showing up especially considering the very rocky history of the game's development. Otherwise developers will keep seeing how easy it is to manipulate the community.
Developers will keep stringing the community along as long as there are who let them. Enthusiasm is great but look at the games that failed in 2007 and all their hype that many in the community so eagerly swallowed. We should be setting developers to higher standards, and the competent and talented developers will rise to meet them.
Ghoul31 - thank you for the links. When you make quotes or present evidence for an argument, linking one's sources is the best way to support them. You shouldn't expect readers to do it, it is really the responsibility of the person presenting the evidence to back it up, as you now have done. It adds credence to the point you're making. Originally posted by TdogSkal
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others. Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
Actually logic would state that a much smaller company trying to produce a much more complex product would have a much higher chance of not succeeding when there have been larger companies in the past that failed to produce less complex products. The Darkfall hype is really based more on faith rather than logic at this stage, and that's okay - up to a point.
Originally posted by Gishgeron
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!" He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long.
Partly agree with this, though not in the inflammatory way it was phrased. People are asking why Ghoul31 is going through all this trouble. I think I can answer that.
How many times has the MMORPG community been burned by developers? How many times have developers made promises that only turned out to be deceptions? And yet the community still gets excited when one comes along and claims they have the next game that will change everything with nothing more to back it up than screenshots and a video or two. (I don't mean Darkfall but games like Gods and Heroes and Dark and Light)
Developers act that way because they know they can get away with it. The MMORPG community has historically been very easy to abuse. Developers could release half-finished pieces of junk and expect the MMORPG community to pay to beta-test them. And the community would let them.
The MMORPG community has learned a little, and Ghoul31 is pointing out another thing that should be learned. It's easy to get excited about a new game, believe the hype and tell everyone it's going to be awesome like the Developer promises. It's harder to do your own research, demand actual evidence (public demos, game mechanic info, interviews with major gaming mags/sites etc) and question the developers constantly if a game seems to be going along less than smoothly.
I'm not sayign Darkfall is vaporware or that it won't be released. I am saying the Darkfall followers should stop claiming this game is the Second Coming unless a LOT more actual evidence starts showing up especially considering the very rocky history of the game's development. Otherwise developers will keep seeing how easy it is to manipulate the community.
Developers will keep stringing the community along as long as there are who let them. Enthusiasm is great but look at the games that failed in 2007 and all their hype that many in the community so eagerly swallowed. We should be setting developers to higher standards, and the competent and talented developers will rise to meet them.
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
whos says we except it we just take it like it is. you know why its a game get over it
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
And I've don't care if it takes 20 years. It's the only game of it's kind in development, and we've are willing to wait for it. Until it's canceled or something better shows up. But you don't have to follow the game, you don't even have to bother us at all. And you don't have to play it either. So crawl back to AoC.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
Well I for one am not just blindly following this game. I am following the game but I also understand how much work goes into an MMO. I saw WoW take 6 years and during beta it was total broken and then they changed the whole game. WoW still has not added in the Hero Class like they promised before release but that is okay by the community which is enabling them to toss out crap.
Same with WAR, I followed WAR since it was released. I decided that WAR was WOW with cool new packaging. I could be completely wrong but that is how I see it.
The origional EQ team also made a very limited 3d game that a larger company really liked and bought them, which allowed them to pay for more staffers which then turned the game into EQ1. The origional team didnt even call there project Everquest it was something completely different.
(I can pull links out if need be but would have to search for them)
Its simple.
Large team with Large funding can make a Releaseable MMO in 5 to 7 years.
Small team with medium funding is going to take alot longer.
Should they have more done? I dont know and you dont either because they are not release the information. WHY NOT? no idea, could be many reasons or it could be that it is not being made but either way there is NOT a way on earth to prove it untill the DEV'S release the information.
Its easy guys, Either follow the game or dont follow the game. But why bash a game you dont want or dont care about. I know you guys mostly do it to get a rise out of others and I can respect that but there is a point that you should stop. Ghoul has gone pass that line a long time ago.
whos says we except it we just take it like it is. you know why its a game get over it
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
whos says we except it we just take it like it is. you know why its a game get over it
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
Or because its only a side project they get to make the game they want to make with no outsiders or CEOs breath down their necks making them settle for something less.
Please compare WoWs feature list pre Release to the Feature list post release and tell me they made the game they wanted, its not even close to the original WoW they first talked about.
Why do you need Adventurine to ACT like a real MMO company? Why is it important for them to release all the information they have? Mircosoft is a great example, they dont release very much about their next OS untill its just about ready to hit the Market.
Sometimes it pays to keep your trade secert untill the right moment, this is very important for small company trying to compete with the Big Dogs.
Sorry that is how I feel. Right or Wrong I will stand behind Darkfall and the Team behind it based on the fact this is the best game coming to market that offers me the kind of game, I always wanted to play.
whos says we except it we just take it like it is. you know why its a game get over it
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
Or because its only a side project they get to make the game they want to make with no outsiders or CEOs breath down their necks making them settle for something less.
Please compare WoWs feature list pre Release to the Feature list post release and tell me they made the game they wanted, its not even close to the original WoW they first talked about.
Why do you need Adventurine to ACT like a real MMO company? Why is it important for them to release all the information they have? Mircosoft is a great example, they dont release very much about their next OS untill its just about ready to hit the Market.
Sometimes it pays to keep your trade secert untill the right moment, this is very important for small company trying to compete with the Big Dogs.
Sorry that is how I feel. Right or Wrong I will stand behind Darkfall and the Team behind it based on the fact this is the best game coming to market that offers me the kind of game, I always wanted to play.
plus if they wanted to waste money on pr that be a diffrent story we would get the game we wanted
See, now you are there again. What are you trying to accomplish here if you don't have any interest in the game or see anything positive with it?
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
See, now you are there again. What are you trying to accomplish here if you don't have any interest in the game or see anything positive with it?
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think what might ultimately happen is that Aventurine will take so long to actually develop and release the game that all of the buzz they created is lost.
But I'm just speculating; nothing is concrete until its cancelled or has a release date.
No planned beta 2003 after Razorwax and Aventurine merged together. Here you is wrong. The Merger was at the beginning of 2003. In August 2003, they said beta would begin in a month. Thats a planned 2003 beta. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=4746 This have been discussed already.http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=r02sbfzp88[QUOTE] Tasos Flambouras: It took a while to organize and assemble the team and to get into full production which started about three and a half years ago. Aventurine was now developing the technology, the tools, and the game. At the time this project started there was no technology available that would allow us to do what we wanted, so everything had to be made from scratch. [/QUOTE]
We're in the process of a major upgrade to our client and server builds, incorporating new game logic and engine features that have been implemented recently. [/QUOTE] So again youre wrong, no failed beta date 2004 In January of 2004, he said the beta would be starting soon. Soon certainly means less than a year. So yes thats a planned 2004 beta (7th post)http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=7202&page=2
Planned beta 2005. Here we agree. Good No planned beta 2006. Wrong again. This is from a Novemner 28th, 2005 interview "We're preparing for beta testing as we speak; you can apply on this page of our website" Since the year was almost over, obviously they were expecting to start beta in 2006 at that point http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html [QUOTE] Tasos Flambouras- The start of the beta is affected by multiple variables, and not just development ones. The same goes for Darkfall's launch date. Once we have a date that we're reasonably sure of, we'll announce it immediately. So youre wrong again, no beta promise 2006. 2007 beta was never a announced beta date but a internal target date.Wrong again. Its still another missed beta date http://df.warcry.com/forums/read/270.42541 No beta promises 2007. Read the article and youll see that Tasos dont mention any beta date. Internal target beta date isnt a announced beta date. Its something theyre planning for so- no missed beta date2007 ghoul31 is yellow and green text.
See, now you are there again. What are you trying to accomplish here if you don't have any interest in the game or see anything positive with it?
White text ghoul31. Orange is meand green is my quotes.
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
They missed one beta 2005 which i proofed, 2003 beta were scratched cause the ambition level were increased alot after the companies emergedhttp://df.warcry.com/news/view/68059.
[QUOTE] Tasos Flambouras. Aventurine was originally formed to fund and publish Darkfall. The development team was in Norway, at the time it was four developers working on design, concepting, and prototyping. While working with Razorwax to put the development team together we realized how high the operating costs, and the cost of living is in Norway. We decided to move our activities to Greece under Aventurine to get more game for our money. It took a while to organize and assemble the team and to get into full production which started about three and a half years ago. Aventurine was now developing the technology, the tools, and the game. At the time this project started there was no technology available that would allow us to do what we wanted, so everything had to be made from scratch.
Our unofficial tagline and battle cry for Darkfall development is "No compromise". We've had vertical slices of the game before, and we considered moving towards a launch a couple of years ago. We didn't go forward because, to put it simply, we all knew we could do so much better if we gave it more time, and we had the resources to do so. I believe that the resulting game can stand up to any MMO out there and it's much more than the game we originally committed to making. [/QUOTE]
You made up lies though about beta dates missed. You quoted Darkfall developers wrongly, added quotes they never made and even dropped so low you were qouting players following game as it were any truth in those statements.=)
On the contrary id say that Darkfall developers have sticked too their original game in a admiringly way. The original game presented from the beginning is still to 99% the same game today. If you call this lying youre poorly informed about Darkfall. And if you compare to other much more promoted games like AoC youll see a company that dont keep their words and AoC isnt close to the game they promised us from starters. So id say that Darkfall developers sticks to what they promised.
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
We're in the process of a major upgrade to our client and server builds, incorporating new game logic and engine features that have been implemented recently. Also: Our world builders and designers are finished with the desert continent, and are now adding more content to the Dwarven Kingdom. This is informing the fanbois that the game isnt ready for launch yet. But you dont quote stuff like this cause you select the pieces that fit your profile.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
Only one lying here is you.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
Game have been in serious development from mid 2003. I quote again: http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=r02sbfzp88Tasos Flambouras: Aventurine was originally formed to fund and publish Darkfall. The development team was in Norway, at the time it was four developers working on design, concepting, and prototyping. While working with Razorwax to put the development team together we realized how high the operating costs, and the cost of living is in Norway. We decided to move our activities to Greece under Aventurine to get more game for our money. It took a while to organize and assemble the team and to get into full production which started about three and a half years ago. Aventurine was now developing the technology, the tools, and the game. At the time this project started there was no technology available that would allow us to do what we wanted, so everything had to be made from scratch.
Our unofficial tagline and battle cry for Darkfall development is "No compromise". We've had vertical slices of the game before, and we considered moving towards a launch a couple of years ago. We didn't go forward because, to put it simply, we all knew we could do so much better if we gave it more time, and we had the resources to do so. I believe that the resulting game can stand up to any MMO out there and it's much more than the game we originally committed to making.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
It will come out when it cames out, noone knows for sure. My bet is beta before summer and a release late 2008 or early 2009.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
There been no lying from developers. They changed their ambition levels during the years that right and personally that just make me even more exited about the game. One missed beta cant be called lying from the developers as i see it. All games have missed beta dates. And keeping the game as originally planned is a achievement on its own. 99% of the originally planned Darkfall is still there and i cant recall any other MMORPG game sticking so hard to its original promises like Darkfall developers do.
Your a good example of a Darkfall follower that havent read up on the game. You lack information cause you didnt do your homework. Cant blame that on the developers can we?
You made up lies though about beta dates missed. You quoted Darkfall developers wrongly, added quotes they never made and even dropped so low you were qouting players following game as it were any truth in those statements.=)
I provided quotes that proved they lied about beta for the the last 5 years. You then accused me of making up those quotes. So then I provided links to every quote, proving I was correct.
And now you still call me a liar. I think everyone else in this forum will agree that you are not making any sense at all at this point. You seem to have a vendetta against me that is making you say irrational things.
You made up lies though about beta dates missed. You quoted Darkfall developers wrongly, added quotes they never made and even dropped so low you were qouting players following game as it were any truth in those statements.=)
I provided quotes that proved they lied about beta for the the last 5 years. You then accused me of making up those quotes. So then I provided links to every quote, proving I was correct.
And now you still call me a liar. I think everyone else in this forum will agree that you are not making any sense at all at this point. You seem to have a vendetta against me that is making you say irrational things.
Your so called "quotes" is from players and your quoting Darkfall developers wrongly. Even putting words in their mouth they never said. Drawing your own conclusions that isnt there. How can you expect me to take you serious when all you do is spreading lies and halflies arround?
Comments
What exactly is positive? Every year for the last 5 years they said beta was about to start, and it never has. They only went to one gaming convention, and didn't even bring the game. As the OP points out, they haven't shown us 90% of the features that are supposed to be in the game. Their latest video just shows backgrounds and some character models.
What is there to be positive about? What facts show us that the game will be released soon? There are none.
See, now you are there again.
What are you trying to accomplish here if you don't have any interest in the game or see anything positive with it? Just argument against us who looking forward to a new game? Aye, that's it. You just turned yourself into a troll.
Are you feeling proud over yourself? almost 40 years old and act like a teenager who are in need of attention. Or if this isn't the case, please enlight everyone here why you act like you do against us.
/Signed
Id also like to know what ghoul31:s intention here on the board is? You really think anything youd say would make us drop interest even the slightest? More likely it will work the other way arround, we the fanbois merge together even tighter the more negativism you deliver us.
HA HA HA HA
I love you guys! First your ONLY angle against ghoul was that he didn't list his links. Now that he has linked to EVERY quote...your angle is "Well, you're just a hater and will will live on!"
He's not a hater. Obviously, he likes the ideal as much as you or else he wouldn't have been keeping up with the information this long. Where he differs from you fanboys is that he actually uses his brain when thinking about what is really going on here.
I'll give you some facts too.
FACT: Adventurine deliberately avoids a publisher...which would expedite the process a thousand fold.
FACT: They state that this is to keep extra hands out of the money later on so that they do not 'need' WoW numbers to succeed.
FACT: They, as a solo project, still do not have key game elements shown to the public that other teams would have had up in mere months after initial programming. Between constant changes, and an obviously skeleton crew, even if they ARE making the game...you may never live to see it. In fact...the longer it takes them to DO this, the more GFX updates they are going to have to go through in order to keep up with times.
FACT: Encouraging their choice to remain on this path by blindly following what they have to say on the matter is not productive to your cause. It would be in your best interest to use player demand to force them into picking up at least a small publisher to get this game OUT before another GFX update is needed and you lose 2-3 MORE years on this.
I want the game too. Their choices in this development have made me think twice about them. We should have MORE information and videos about this game than AOC (Since AoC has likely the most controlling NDA EVA) but we do not. We have more information from NDA breaking LEAKS in other games than we do about a game which has been in production for over half a decade. I think you are all fools for supporting this kind of model for the game.....because it WILL translate into the game when and IF it does come out as well. DO you really want to wait 6 years for patches and expansions?????
I'll take this one!
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
FALSE
FACT: Adventurine has a small staff of programmers/designers.
FACT: AoC has a huge staff of programmers/designers/PR reps and many others.
FACT: AoC and WAR are being made by companies with game making experince.
FACT: Due to Darkfalls massive world, rule set, feature list it is going to take a long time to make.
What does all this mean? Simple
AoC and WaR has Double even triple the number of staff on the project as Darkfall and it will take them 5 to 6 years to release a full version.
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others.
If I remember correctly both AoC and WAR have pushed back thier release dates and beta dates a few times.
Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
But what is logic? Logic sucks for your arguments
Sooner or Later
Well if you use Logic or your brain as you stated we do not then you would see the issue in your logic.FACT: Adventurine has a small staff of programmers/designers.
FACT: AoC has a huge staff of programmers/designers/PR reps and many others.
FACT: AoC and WAR are being made by companies with game making experince.
FACT: Due to Darkfalls massive world, rule set, feature list it is going to take a long time to make.
What does all this mean? Simple
AoC and WaR has Double even triple the number of staff on the project as Darkfall and it will take them 5 to 6 years to release a full version.
Darkfall being a lot bigger game world and more features with a way smaller non experince game design team will take longer then the others.
If I remember correctly both AoC and WAR have pushed back thier release dates and beta dates a few times.
Logic states that because Darkfall is being made by a smaller design team with a bigger (better) game design then both AoC and WAR it will take Darkfall longer to get to market.
But what is logic? Logic sucks for your arguments
And Darkfall ain't aiming for a gear/levelbased game, they know it wont be huge as WoW. And we know it to. We only want atleast one sandboxgame. If it is a market for it? Aye, I think so.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
Ghoul31 - thank you for the links. When you make quotes or present evidence for an argument, linking one's sources is the best way to support them. You shouldn't expect readers to do it, it is really the responsibility of the person presenting the evidence to back it up, as you now have done. It adds credence to the point you're making.
Actually logic would state that a much smaller company trying to produce a much more complex product would have a much higher chance of not succeeding when there have been larger companies in the past that failed to produce less complex products. The Darkfall hype is really based more on faith rather than logic at this stage, and that's okay - up to a point.
Partly agree with this, though not in the inflammatory way it was phrased. People are asking why Ghoul31 is going through all this trouble. I think I can answer that.
How many times has the MMORPG community been burned by developers? How many times have developers made promises that only turned out to be deceptions? And yet the community still gets excited when one comes along and claims they have the next game that will change everything with nothing more to back it up than screenshots and a video or two. (I don't mean Darkfall but games like Gods and Heroes and Dark and Light)
Developers act that way because they know they can get away with it. The MMORPG community has historically been very easy to abuse. Developers could release half-finished pieces of junk and expect the MMORPG community to pay to beta-test them. And the community would let them.
The MMORPG community has learned a little, and Ghoul31 is pointing out another thing that should be learned. It's easy to get excited about a new game, believe the hype and tell everyone it's going to be awesome like the Developer promises. It's harder to do your own research, demand actual evidence (public demos, game mechanic info, interviews with major gaming mags/sites etc) and question the developers constantly if a game seems to be going along less than smoothly.
I'm not sayign Darkfall is vaporware or that it won't be released. I am saying the Darkfall followers should stop claiming this game is the Second Coming unless a LOT more actual evidence starts showing up especially considering the very rocky history of the game's development. Otherwise developers will keep seeing how easy it is to manipulate the community.
Developers will keep stringing the community along as long as there are who let them. Enthusiasm is great but look at the games that failed in 2007 and all their hype that many in the community so eagerly swallowed. We should be setting developers to higher standards, and the competent and talented developers will rise to meet them.
Actually logic would state that a much smaller company trying to produce a much more complex product would have a much higher chance of not succeeding when there have been larger companies in the past that failed to produce less complex products. The Darkfall hype is really based more on faith rather than logic at this stage, and that's okay - up to a point.
Partly agree with this, though not in the inflammatory way it was phrased. People are asking why Ghoul31 is going through all this trouble. I think I can answer that.
How many times has the MMORPG community been burned by developers? How many times have developers made promises that only turned out to be deceptions? And yet the community still gets excited when one comes along and claims they have the next game that will change everything with nothing more to back it up than screenshots and a video or two. (I don't mean Darkfall but games like Gods and Heroes and Dark and Light)
Developers act that way because they know they can get away with it. The MMORPG community has historically been very easy to abuse. Developers could release half-finished pieces of junk and expect the MMORPG community to pay to beta-test them. And the community would let them.
The MMORPG community has learned a little, and Ghoul31 is pointing out another thing that should be learned. It's easy to get excited about a new game, believe the hype and tell everyone it's going to be awesome like the Developer promises. It's harder to do your own research, demand actual evidence (public demos, game mechanic info, interviews with major gaming mags/sites etc) and question the developers constantly if a game seems to be going along less than smoothly.
I'm not sayign Darkfall is vaporware or that it won't be released. I am saying the Darkfall followers should stop claiming this game is the Second Coming unless a LOT more actual evidence starts showing up especially considering the very rocky history of the game's development. Otherwise developers will keep seeing how easy it is to manipulate the community.
Developers will keep stringing the community along as long as there are who let them. Enthusiasm is great but look at the games that failed in 2007 and all their hype that many in the community so eagerly swallowed. We should be setting developers to higher standards, and the competent and talented developers will rise to meet them.
We are aware of this, the point is that ghoul not just says it once, twice or twenty times. Hes like a machine on repeat. And he has stated that he don't have any interest in the game, so we all wonder why he is here and bring his negative comments everywere he goes. DF boards are not the only ones tho.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
yea it hink your full of BS too mite as well stop posting your wasting your time
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
whos says we except it we just take it like it is. you know why its a game get over it
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
And I've don't care if it takes 20 years. It's the only game of it's kind in development, and we've are willing to wait for it. Until it's canceled or something better shows up. But you don't have to follow the game, you don't even have to bother us at all. And you don't have to play it either. So crawl back to AoC.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
He points it out 1000 times for the same reason I do.
You people follow this with a sense of almost ZEAL. This kind of personal choice is doing nothing but fueling the already abhorrent issue we face of constant developer ignorance and abuse. I feel that it is our responsibility as the consumer to demand FAR better than Adventurine has been delivering in this regard. After 6-7 years I should have a workable character creation tool to play with at least. AT LEAST. Good god, I think half the people who visit this forum could toss one together in a year or less. Its not that hard, and it showcases the work they are doing. All we see right now is very basic models and layouts...stuff that the big boys do in a few months. I don't expect this small team to do it in a few months. They have had years upon years.
I think its beyond time for a beta. This game, even for being self-published and on a small team, should have already been released. Smaller teams have done so...in fact the origional EQ team wasn't very large at all when they began work on that game and accomplished quite a bit more in less time as well.
Like I said, we aren't being negative to BE negative. We just get tired of you guys being BS enablers to the market by accepting whatever crap is tossed at you by these guys. Stop being blind and DEMAND better...they have already stated that they have had the options to do so and ignored them.
Well I for one am not just blindly following this game. I am following the game but I also understand how much work goes into an MMO. I saw WoW take 6 years and during beta it was total broken and then they changed the whole game. WoW still has not added in the Hero Class like they promised before release but that is okay by the community which is enabling them to toss out crap.
Same with WAR, I followed WAR since it was released. I decided that WAR was WOW with cool new packaging. I could be completely wrong but that is how I see it.
The origional EQ team also made a very limited 3d game that a larger company really liked and bought them, which allowed them to pay for more staffers which then turned the game into EQ1. The origional team didnt even call there project Everquest it was something completely different.
(I can pull links out if need be but would have to search for them)
Its simple.
Large team with Large funding can make a Releaseable MMO in 5 to 7 years.
Small team with medium funding is going to take alot longer.
Should they have more done? I dont know and you dont either because they are not release the information. WHY NOT? no idea, could be many reasons or it could be that it is not being made but either way there is NOT a way on earth to prove it untill the DEV'S release the information.
Its easy guys, Either follow the game or dont follow the game. But why bash a game you dont want or dont care about. I know you guys mostly do it to get a rise out of others and I can respect that but there is a point that you should stop. Ghoul has gone pass that line a long time ago.
Sooner or Later
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
Or because its only a side project they get to make the game they want to make with no outsiders or CEOs breath down their necks making them settle for something less.
Please compare WoWs feature list pre Release to the Feature list post release and tell me they made the game they wanted, its not even close to the original WoW they first talked about.
Why do you need Adventurine to ACT like a real MMO company? Why is it important for them to release all the information they have? Mircosoft is a great example, they dont release very much about their next OS untill its just about ready to hit the Market.
Sometimes it pays to keep your trade secert untill the right moment, this is very important for small company trying to compete with the Big Dogs.
Sorry that is how I feel. Right or Wrong I will stand behind Darkfall and the Team behind it based on the fact this is the best game coming to market that offers me the kind of game, I always wanted to play.
Sooner or Later
I'd love to get over it. Its a problem for me though...because any other company with such an awesome ideal is excitably showing it off every chance they get. I remember when WoW was up and coming...they would release every piece of info they could because they were so excited. I mean right down to the mobs and any back story associated with them kind of detail. They were so happy with what they were doing that they wanted to share it with us, and you know what? I found that this kind of positive energy found its way into the quality of the game as well.
I want Darkfall to succeed. We NEED to broaden the MMO field far more than we have. Other genres have seen great transformation over the years...and I want my favorite on to transform as well. The trouble is...the longer this game takes and the less information and actual gameplay we see leads me to think that this project really ISN'T something these guys are 100% into. I honestly think that this game is just a side project to them...and if that is the case that mentality will lend itself to the game when its done. Know what that means?
A bad game. If this game flops...so to does our hopes of seeing MORE companies try to expand what an MMORPG is. They will keep sticking to the stupid rollercoaster format...and I'm just plain tired of it. For me to have a good game to play, I need Adventurine to ACT and WORK like a real MMO company. A part of that package is having the customer's interest in mind, and being excited about their work.
Or because its only a side project they get to make the game they want to make with no outsiders or CEOs breath down their necks making them settle for something less.
Please compare WoWs feature list pre Release to the Feature list post release and tell me they made the game they wanted, its not even close to the original WoW they first talked about.
Why do you need Adventurine to ACT like a real MMO company? Why is it important for them to release all the information they have? Mircosoft is a great example, they dont release very much about their next OS untill its just about ready to hit the Market.
Sometimes it pays to keep your trade secert untill the right moment, this is very important for small company trying to compete with the Big Dogs.
Sorry that is how I feel. Right or Wrong I will stand behind Darkfall and the Team behind it based on the fact this is the best game coming to market that offers me the kind of game, I always wanted to play.
plus if they wanted to waste money on pr that be a diffrent story we would get the game we wanted
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
Exactly! (and grats on 1000 posts Ghoul)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ghoul really needs to stop pointing fingers
I think what might ultimately happen is that Aventurine will take so long to actually develop and release the game that all of the buzz they created is lost.
But I'm just speculating; nothing is concrete until its cancelled or has a release date.
Not if they start advertising like crazy : ) thats all it would take ... plus beta starting heh
White text ghoul31. Orange is me and green is my quotes.
Obviously I have interest in the game,or I wouldn't be here. If you look at my post history,you will see I am always writing positive things about Shadowbane. And Shadowbane is very similar to this game.
So I will be following this game until it is released. No matter how many more years it takes. I'm not going anywhere
Yes I am angry at being lied to by the devs every year for the last five years. Who wouldn't be angry when someone lies to you constantly for 5 years straight?
They missed one beta 2005 which i proofed, 2003 beta were scratched cause the ambition level were increased alot after the companies emerged http://df.warcry.com/news/view/68059.
[QUOTE] Tasos Flambouras. Aventurine was originally formed to fund and publish Darkfall. The development team was in Norway, at the time it was four developers working on design, concepting, and prototyping. While working with Razorwax to put the development team together we realized how high the operating costs, and the cost of living is in Norway. We decided to move our activities to Greece under Aventurine to get more game for our money. It took a while to organize and assemble the team and to get into full production which started about three and a half years ago. Aventurine was now developing the technology, the tools, and the game. At the time this project started there was no technology available that would allow us to do what we wanted, so everything had to be made from scratch.
Our unofficial tagline and battle cry for Darkfall development is "No compromise". We've had vertical slices of the game before, and we considered moving towards a launch a couple of years ago. We didn't go forward because, to put it simply, we all knew we could do so much better if we gave it more time, and we had the resources to do so. I believe that the resulting game can stand up to any MMO out there and it's much more than the game we originally committed to making. [/QUOTE]
You made up lies though about beta dates missed. You quoted Darkfall developers wrongly, added quotes they never made and even dropped so low you were qouting players following game as it were any truth in those statements.=)
On the contrary id say that Darkfall developers have sticked too their original game in a admiringly way. The original game presented from the beginning is still to 99% the same game today. If you call this lying youre poorly informed about Darkfall. And if you compare to other much more promoted games like AoC youll see a company that dont keep their words and AoC isnt close to the game they promised us from starters. So id say that Darkfall developers sticks to what they promised.
If they would have just said in 2003 " This game is in pretty bad shape, we will probably end up redoing most of the game, so this game won't be released until at least 2010, so get back to us in 5 years or so." I would have been fine with that.
At the end of 2003 you can read Tasos telling us this: http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=2clfpd7mp3 Tasos:
We're in the process of a major upgrade to our client and server builds, incorporating new game logic and engine features that have been implemented recently. Also: Our world builders and designers are finished with the desert continent, and are now adding more content to the Dwarven Kingdom. This is informing the fanbois that the game isnt ready for launch yet. But you dont quote stuff like this cause you select the pieces that fit your profile.
But to lie to your fans constantly for 5 years straighti is totally unacceptable, and you can bet I'm going to speak up about it.
Only one lying here is you.
So when I see people post totally absurd things like " the devs have never lied to us" , or "the game has only been in development for 5 years" , I feel a need to get the truth out. So if people post absurd statements like this 1000 times, I will reply to these absurd statements 1000 times.
Game have been in serious development from mid 2003. I quote again: http://darkfallinfo.com/index.php?page=Info&code=r02sbfzp88 Tasos Flambouras: Aventurine was originally formed to fund and publish Darkfall. The development team was in Norway, at the time it was four developers working on design, concepting, and prototyping. While working with Razorwax to put the development team together we realized how high the operating costs, and the cost of living is in Norway. We decided to move our activities to Greece under Aventurine to get more game for our money. It took a while to organize and assemble the team and to get into full production which started about three and a half years ago. Aventurine was now developing the technology, the tools, and the game. At the time this project started there was no technology available that would allow us to do what we wanted, so everything had to be made from scratch.
Our unofficial tagline and battle cry for Darkfall development is "No compromise". We've had vertical slices of the game before, and we considered moving towards a launch a couple of years ago. We didn't go forward because, to put it simply, we all knew we could do so much better if we gave it more time, and we had the resources to do so. I believe that the resulting game can stand up to any MMO out there and it's much more than the game we originally committed to making.
With all that being said, I will be playing this game when it is released. That is because I like sandbox games. But based on the available evidence, this game won't be released for at least 3 more years. And I think that is being generous.
It will come out when it cames out, noone knows for sure. My bet is beta before summer and a release late 2008 or early 2009.
I can understand your excitement about the ideas behind this game. But the developers lack of information, and downright lies over the last 5 years are totally unexcusable. And I really don't understand why you feel the need to defend such horrible behavior.
There been no lying from developers. They changed their ambition levels during the years that right and personally that just make me even more exited about the game. One missed beta cant be called lying from the developers as i see it. All games have missed beta dates. And keeping the game as originally planned is a achievement on its own. 99% of the originally planned Darkfall is still there and i cant recall any other MMORPG game sticking so hard to its original promises like Darkfall developers do.
Your a good example of a Darkfall follower that havent read up on the game. You lack information cause you didnt do your homework. Cant blame that on the developers can we?
I provided quotes that proved they lied about beta for the the last 5 years. You then accused me of making up those quotes. So then I provided links to every quote, proving I was correct.
And now you still call me a liar. I think everyone else in this forum will agree that you are not making any sense at all at this point. You seem to have a vendetta against me that is making you say irrational things.
I provided quotes that proved they lied about beta for the the last 5 years. You then accused me of making up those quotes. So then I provided links to every quote, proving I was correct.
And now you still call me a liar. I think everyone else in this forum will agree that you are not making any sense at all at this point. You seem to have a vendetta against me that is making you say irrational things.
Your so called "quotes" is from players and your quoting Darkfall developers wrongly. Even putting words in their mouth they never said. Drawing your own conclusions that isnt there. How can you expect me to take you serious when all you do is spreading lies and halflies arround?