meh, i think PC gaming is..dying, extremly slowly. i think it is recoverable, very recoverable. But its just to expensive to keep your computer up and what with it nice to be able to lug ur console to a friends house to play games...its just easier to buy a console. especially for those who arent comp nerds lol
Summation - Consoles are toys and are killing computer MMORPGs by trying to make all games appeal to the simpleton Nintendo crowd.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naiveté
If anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
You completely fail at comprehending the underlying complexities that make MMOs so drastically different than any other genre. While the graphics in WoW are simple, the underlying system is far more complex and involving than you make it out to be. If you understand this and understand the ins and outs of how your character works, you're going to succeed. If you don't, you won't.
Here's an example: Rogues:
Rogues have about 7 specs that span three different weapons and are each played very differently from each other. Then, let's look at the formula's involved in how you need to address each different spec. For example, you want to go with combat swords. Well, the unassuming person would just find the highest dps swords and use them. They would be severely undercutting their abilities by doing that. Maybe they bought two 85dps swords, but they both have a speed of 1.90. Well, that means that the minimum and maximum damage on the mainhand sword is going to be so weak his sinister strikes (the main attack for this build) are going to be weak as hell. As for off-hand, the main purpose of off-hands for this spec are to generate extra energy (talent) and shiv poisons. The shiv mechanics would work out a 1.90 speed sword to 49 energy per shiv, rogues only have 100 energy (110 with a talent you wouldn't have with this spec). Also, because the weapon is fairly slow, you would get few energy procs with your offhand.
I'll stop there as it just gets more and more involved from there. While you certainly can put everything I just said in a nutshell, it doesn't matter because the complexities of the system are still there.
Putting that aside, WoW right now is about 9 gigs despite how simple the graphics appear. Vanguard is a whopping 22 gigs big and EQ 2 is about 14 (I'm guessing here). Game dvd's hold about 8-10 gigs of space. So, they're going to have to make it so the games get installed onto your console just like they currently are on pc's. Considering consoles have many times less HD space than a PC, you're going to be filling most of that with just one of these (half in the case of Vanguard).
Not to mention, what are they going to do in the case of expansions if they somehow manage to figure how to fit a huge game onto a single disc?
The point is in order to scale down mmos to fit into such a confined space (consoles) game developers are going to have trim down the scale on which mmos currently are created on. What is going to get cut out? How watered down can they make them and still have them be as complex? These questions are huge and the answers to both of them get cut down to, "A lot" and "extremely".
Summation - Consoles are toys and are killing computer MMORPGs by trying to make all games appeal to the simpleton Nintendo crowd.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naiveté
If anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
meh, i think PC gaming is..dying, extremly slowly. i think it is recoverable, very recoverable. But its just to expensive to keep your computer up and what with it nice to be able to lug ur console to a friends house to play games...its just easier to buy a console. especially for those who arent comp nerds lol
You don't have to be a comp nerd to appreciate mods. Hell, CS and TF:2 have a huge mod community and I really doubt the majority of their main player bases are computer nerds.
Besides, you only have to upgrade your pc often if you want to stay at the maximum of cutting edge tech. Do you honestly think consoles somehow magically stay at the cutting edge of tech through the 6+ years between each generation of consoles? The difference is with a PC is you don't have to fall behind if you don't want to.
Summation - Consoles are toys and are killing computer MMORPGs by trying to make all games appeal to the simpleton Nintendo crowd.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naiveté
If anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
You completely fail at comprehending the underlying complexities that make MMOs so drastically different than any other genre. While the graphics in WoW are simple, the underlying system is far more complex and involving than you make it out to be. If you understand this and understand the ins and outs of how your character works, you're going to succeed. If you don't, you won't.
Here's an example: Rogues:
Rogues have about 7 specs that span three different weapons and are each played very differently from each other. Then, let's look at the formula's involved in how you need to address each different spec. For example, you want to go with combat swords. Well, the unassuming person would just find the highest dps swords and use them. They would be severely undercutting their abilities by doing that. Maybe they bought two 85dps swords, but they both have a speed of 1.90. Well, that means that the minimum and maximum damage on the mainhand sword is going to be so weak his sinister strikes (the main attack for this build) are going to be weak as hell. As for off-hand, the main purpose of off-hands for this spec are to generate extra energy (talent) and shiv poisons. The shiv mechanics would work out a 1.90 speed sword to 49 energy per shiv, rogues only have 100 energy (110 with a talent you wouldn't have with this spec). Also, because the weapon is fairly slow, you would get few energy procs with your offhand.
I'll stop there as it just gets more and more involved from there. While you certainly can put everything I just said in a nutshell, it doesn't matter because the complexities of the system are still there.
Putting that aside, WoW right now is about 9 gigs despite how simple the graphics appear. Vanguard is a whopping 22 gigs big and EQ 2 is about 14 (I'm guessing here). Game dvd's hold about 8-10 gigs of space. So, they're going to have to make it so the games get installed onto your console just like they currently are on pc's. Considering consoles have many times less HD space than a PC, you're going to be filling most of that with just one of these (half in the case of Vanguard).
Not to mention, what are they going to do in the case of expansions if they somehow manage to figure how to fit a huge game onto a single disc?
The point is in order to scale down mmos to fit into such a confined space (consoles) game developers are going to have trim down the scale on which mmos currently are created on. What is going to get cut out? How watered down can they make them and still have them be as complex? These questions are huge and the answers to both of them get cut down to, "A lot" and "extremely".
Complexity doesnt even factor into the difference between a console MMO and a PC MMO. You can have the same skills, same trees, same systems, etc.
Hard Drive space is nothing, 40 gigs is the standard size for PS3 and can be easily swapped out to a larger size. PS3 also uses Blu Ray DVDs, which hold 25-50gigs depending on the layer format (single layer is 25, dual layer is 50)
Again, the same game with the same complexity can exist between the 2 formats.
360 also has multiple HD sizes upto 120gigs, and can play games straight from the drive as well, so DVD sizes wouldnt matter, just as it doesnt matter on PC.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
That's -only- the ps3. The xbox 360 still uses dvd's, so what? Any console mmo is only going to be for the ps3? I realize they could make a ps3 and PC mmo, but again, comes back to the control restriction and no matter what you say, people turn on a console for the simple, fast controls gamepads offer.
Summation - Consoles are toys and are killing computer MMORPGs by trying to make all games appeal to the simpleton Nintendo crowd.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naiveté
If anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
Why does it matter how complex a game is as long as its realy fun. And I dont agree with anything you say.
Summation - Consoles are toys and are killing computer MMORPGs by trying to make all games appeal to the simpleton Nintendo crowd.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naiveté
If anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
Sadly the game companies dont care about the person behind the money, just how much money they are making.
Think of the situation more like adding an ice cube to water. Before the ice cube can begin cooling the water, both the water and ice have to come to a median temperature, the water getting cooler while the ice warms up and melts. Once this happens, the water starts to get cold.
If anything the same will happen with console gaming, in most cases it already is. Console gaming is getting more like PC gaming in the quality and type of games. Consoles are just catching upto PCs, and doing so, the games are too. Once you start making crossplatform multiplayer games, sure, it will be like wow for a while, but then the games will start to get more complex. Consoles being the water, PCs being the ice.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base.
AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom.
More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play.
Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
But again, the same game can be made/played on a console.
Sadly game companies care almost nothing about complexity these days, and its PC gamers who are to blame, not console exclusive players. The PC is no longer the niche nerdtopia we knew and loved, and $100billion annual incomes care nothing about us.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
What would help PC gaming is for Developer Companies to not worry so much about kick ass graphics but rather just develop nice looking graphics that can be run on the average computer.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
That's -only- the ps3. The xbox 360 still uses dvd's, so what? Any console mmo is only going to be for the ps3? I realize they could make a ps3 and PC mmo, but again, comes back to the control restriction and no matter what you say, people turn on a console for the simple, fast controls gamepads offer.
Thanks for pointing that out, totally forgot about the 360...
360 has multiple HD sizes (capping out at 120gb if im not mistaken) and can stream straight from the HD just like PC, so DVD capacity really doesnt matter there.
As for control restriction, its preference. If people decide to play an MMO on a console and the game supports keyboard/mouse and would play better with said config, then they would most likely use them.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
What would help PC gaming is for Developer Companies to not worry so much about kick ass graphics but rather just develop nice looking graphics that can be run on the average computer.
Thats basically the point we have reached today. Today its more about style than polygon count.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Exactly. The whole point of MMOs is that they are complex enough to keep users interested. If an MMO was even along the lines of Mass Effect everyone would stop playing after their first month because they would have done everything.
That seems to be the point both developers and gamers are missing. WoW is proving this right now due to the fact that their player base is right about at that classic peak where it is neither growing nor is it shrinking by any noticeable margin. It's due to the fact that a lot of players have done everything because WoW has made a lot of their content easier to approach (not to mention the pending release of WAR and AoC).
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
That's -only- the ps3. The xbox 360 still uses dvd's, so what? Any console mmo is only going to be for the ps3? I realize they could make a ps3 and PC mmo, but again, comes back to the control restriction and no matter what you say, people turn on a console for the simple, fast controls gamepads offer.
Thanks for pointing that out, totally forgot about the 360...
360 has multiple HD sizes (capping out at 120gb if im not mistaken) and can stream straight from the HD just like PC, so DVD capacity really doesnt matter there.
As for control restriction, its preference. If people decide to play an MMO on a console and the game supports keyboard/mouse and would play better with said config, then they would most likely use them.
You're missing the point. It's NOT just about preference. If you try to make a control interface that is easy to use on a gamepad you are not going to have the same level of control on a mouse and keyboard. The same applies in reverse, but in a different fashion; if you build your control interface around a mouse and keyboard then gamepads won't have the utility to function properly. Either way you're going to hurt one control style GREATLY depending on which you try to focus on. And the simple fact remains: the majority of console owners (including myself) turn on their consoles in order to pick up a gamepad for some quick game play.
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
This is true and really speaks to a lot of different things in our society today. Games have the potential today to be so grand and complex, yet still extremely fun for anyone.However, 'TV-Toy' kids don't want to think about anything and just want instant gratification in the form of big, flashy explosions and dumbed-down stories that any intelligent person can follow while half asleep.
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base. AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom. More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play. Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
This is true and really speaks to a lot of different things in our society today. Games have the potential today to be so grand and complex, yet still extremely fun for anyone.However, 'TV-Toy' kids don't want to think about anything and just want instant gratification in the form of big, flashy explosions and dumbed-down stories that any intelligent person can follow while half asleep.
Xenogears, Xenosaga, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy 6-7, KOTOR had dumb storys?
Ah, we're talking about editing the *.ini, but making mod extensions to games -- scripting/new levels/3D modelling/voice dialogue/graphics, etc. -- to extend the life of games. That's not possible with consoles, nor can consoles be used to edit them. It's yet another reason why I wouldn't buy a console. For the price, I could get a first generation videocard or proc -- to be able to mod a new level, or better, add new 3D models to the game. Downloadable content is no substitute.
About the subject, current state on XBox 360. Oblivium wiki.
For the moment, you need to be connected to Xbox live to obtain the Official Mods. The mods are available from the Xbox Live Marketplace; you will need to pay for any mods using Microsoft Points. If there are multiple users on your Xbox 360, the mods will be available to all accounts (user profiles) on that console.
If you wish to delete an official mod, you just need to delete the associated file. Under the "System" blade, select "Memory", "Hard Drive", "Games", then "Oblivion". The directory that is now open lists all your save files, and also lists any downloaded content. Select the file for the mod you want to get rid of, and choose delete. If you delete the mod file, you can subsequently download a new copy without having to pay for it again.
Unofficial mods cannot be played on the Xbox 360. While it is possible to access the Xbox 360 with some programs, it is not possible to add mods since doing so would require creating an Xbox 360 container file, which is only possible if you know the encryption method and private key used to generate the hashed security certificates.
{SNIP} Sadly the game companies dont care about the person behind the money, just how much money they are making.
Think of the situation more like adding an ice cube to water. Before the ice cube can begin cooling the water, both the water and ice have to come to a median temperature, the water getting cooler while the ice warms up and melts. Once this happens, the water starts to get cold. If anything the same will happen with console gaming, in most cases it already is. Console gaming is getting more like PC gaming in the quality and type of games. Consoles are just catching upto PCs, and doing so, the games are too. Once you start making crossplatform multiplayer games, sure, it will be like wow for a while, but then the games will start to get more complex. Consoles being the water, PCs being the ice.
HEHE I like your anaology (But it is very wrong as I will explain at the end)
Flip it around so that I can explain my view better, Computers = Water, Consoles = Ice. And the path to Better Games would be heating toward boiling point.
Both the water and the ice exchange in energy, but this missed the idea that both might have been heading toward boiling. The Ice (Console) has a larger delta T to reach boiling i.e. it is not as advanced a platform for gaming. Its games are older, simpler, more shallow than the Water (Computer).
Why should the Water (Computer) have to be set back from its goal of boiling (better games) just so that it can lend a hand in helping the nintendo-toys up to where the the computer games had been 4 years ago?
I don't want to sacrifice better more complex games just so that our slow-cousin can struggle to where we have already been.
Now... on to the error in the Water-Ice analogy. My undergrad was ChemEng/BioChem so seeing errors like this in print can't be left unaddressed.
The water-ice reaction would be a one way street. Water would loose energy to the ice and lower its ordered state to that of a liquid. The water gains no energy from the weakening of the hydrogen binding in solid ice. The water would not only loose the energy to raise the water to the melting point, but it also looses the additional melting energy needed to change the ice in to a liquid.
The New Age wackos have hijacked the word 'Energy' and have cause enormous harm to most people's understanding. Energy is a measurement of work, not a physical thing. There are no clouds of energy, no bioenergy, no psychic energy, no balls of energy. Energy is only a measurement it doesn't exist in and of itself.
But, since you used the Water-Ice analogy, I think it is fitting. Water (computers) suffers a massive loss of stored energy (advancement toward better games) in just getting the Ice (Nintendo-toys) up to the level of colder water. A net double loss for the Computer and a gain to the Console, only if you count being where the computer had already been years and years ago as a bonus to gaming
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
{SNIP} Sadly the game companies dont care about the person behind the money, just how much money they are making.
Think of the situation more like adding an ice cube to water. Before the ice cube can begin cooling the water, both the water and ice have to come to a median temperature, the water getting cooler while the ice warms up and melts. Once this happens, the water starts to get cold. If anything the same will happen with console gaming, in most cases it already is. Console gaming is getting more like PC gaming in the quality and type of games. Consoles are just catching upto PCs, and doing so, the games are too. Once you start making crossplatform multiplayer games, sure, it will be like wow for a while, but then the games will start to get more complex. Consoles being the water, PCs being the ice.
HEHE I like your anaology (But it is very wrong as I will explain at the end)
Flip it around so that I can explain my view better, Computers = Water, Consoles = Ice. And the path to Better Games would be heating toward boiling point.
Both the water and the ice exchange in energy, but this missed the idea that both might have been heading toward boiling. The Ice (Console) has a larger delta T to reach boiling i.e. it is not as advanced a platform for gaming. Its games are older, simpler, more shallow than the Water (Computer).
Why should the Water (Computer) have to be set back from its goal of boiling (better games) just so that it can lend a hand in helping the nintendo-toys up to where the the computer games had been 4 years ago?
I don't want to sacrifice better more complex games just so that our slow-cousin can struggle to where we have already been.
Now... on to the error in the Water-Ice analogy. My undergrad was ChemEng/BioChem so seeing errors like this in print can't be left unaddressed.
The water-ice reaction would be a one way street. Water would loose energy to the ice and lower its ordered state to that of a liquid. The water gains no energy from the weakening of the hydrogen binding in solid ice. The water would not only loose the energy to raise the water to the melting point, but it also looses the additional melting energy needed to change the ice in to a liquid.
The New Age wackos have hijacked the word 'Energy' and have cause enormous harm to most people's understanding. Energy is a measurement of work, not a physical thing. There are no clouds of energy, no bioenergy, no psychic energy, no balls of energy. Energy is only a measurement it doesn't exist in and of itself.
But, since you used the Water-Ice analogy, I think it is fitting. Water (computers) suffers a massive loss of stored energy (advancement toward better games) in just getting the Ice (Nintendo-toys) up to the level of colder water. A net double loss for the Computer and a gain to the Console, only if you count being where the computer had already been years and years ago as a bonus to gaming
Aye, its been over 11 years since science class and that was the best I could remember the process.
But If you look at console games, many of them are more complex than they were previous (not counting Nintendo titles because they would rather stick to family fun and simple games). Playstation games are becoming more like PC games every generation, and 360, well, its mostly nothing but PC ports. Both console and PC will work up/down to a level of complexity before they both evolve equally. Its basically because console gamers are getting tired of the same old platformer/mario type game and PC game developers want to find some avenue of income (where the PC game industry is plagued by pirating).
As I said, it will suck for a while, and theres not much a PC player can do, but it will eventually even out because console gamers will hear the stories and ask "Why can't we have something other than this?" It will be as you said a double net loss for PC gamers for a while, but over time it will be a gain to all gamers everywhere. The best we can do is convince the game makers that you dont have to slight one side to appease the other.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Consoles are superior only in thier variety, visual appeal, and unique stories. Consoles give games that are the cinema of gaming. Consoles have better controls for platforming, 3rd person fighting, and adventure games. They have the most beautiful and artistic rpgs ever created (considering time quality disparity due to hardware generation gaps). They also used to have the fewest glitches.
PC's are the kings of war though. The areas of RTS, Turn-based Strategy, FPS, flight sim, all seem to be tailor made for mouse and keyboard controls. Nothing is stupider than aiming a crosshair reticule with a thumbstick. They are far superior in terms of Multiplayer ability thanks to the low cost of the standard PC internet connection, ease of start up, software cost, etc. The problem with PCs is hardware and overall game quality, thanks to software bugs, and the general lack of quality writing most PC games have. They make up for it with hard and furious action with much of the multilpayer gaming out there.
Neither platform suffers from a lack of interactivity, that's due to the game developer. Similary visual quality and playability are also dependent on the programmers who create it.
In short both have thier strong points and weak points, so there really is no overall winner. After all PC to Console ports suck as bad as Console to PC ports. Games are designed for thier platform, usually without errors. The only mistakes seem to be gaming companies releasing FPS games on a Console.
Comments
meh, i think PC gaming is..dying, extremly slowly. i think it is recoverable, very recoverable. But its just to expensive to keep your computer up and what with it nice to be able to lug ur console to a friends house to play games...its just easier to buy a console. especially for those who arent comp nerds lol
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naivetéIf anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
You completely fail at comprehending the underlying complexities that make MMOs so drastically different than any other genre. While the graphics in WoW are simple, the underlying system is far more complex and involving than you make it out to be. If you understand this and understand the ins and outs of how your character works, you're going to succeed. If you don't, you won't.Here's an example: Rogues:
Rogues have about 7 specs that span three different weapons and are each played very differently from each other. Then, let's look at the formula's involved in how you need to address each different spec. For example, you want to go with combat swords. Well, the unassuming person would just find the highest dps swords and use them. They would be severely undercutting their abilities by doing that. Maybe they bought two 85dps swords, but they both have a speed of 1.90. Well, that means that the minimum and maximum damage on the mainhand sword is going to be so weak his sinister strikes (the main attack for this build) are going to be weak as hell. As for off-hand, the main purpose of off-hands for this spec are to generate extra energy (talent) and shiv poisons. The shiv mechanics would work out a 1.90 speed sword to 49 energy per shiv, rogues only have 100 energy (110 with a talent you wouldn't have with this spec). Also, because the weapon is fairly slow, you would get few energy procs with your offhand.
I'll stop there as it just gets more and more involved from there. While you certainly can put everything I just said in a nutshell, it doesn't matter because the complexities of the system are still there.
Putting that aside, WoW right now is about 9 gigs despite how simple the graphics appear. Vanguard is a whopping 22 gigs big and EQ 2 is about 14 (I'm guessing here). Game dvd's hold about 8-10 gigs of space. So, they're going to have to make it so the games get installed onto your console just like they currently are on pc's. Considering consoles have many times less HD space than a PC, you're going to be filling most of that with just one of these (half in the case of Vanguard).
Not to mention, what are they going to do in the case of expansions if they somehow manage to figure how to fit a huge game onto a single disc?
The point is in order to scale down mmos to fit into such a confined space (consoles) game developers are going to have trim down the scale on which mmos currently are created on. What is going to get cut out? How watered down can they make them and still have them be as complex? These questions are huge and the answers to both of them get cut down to, "A lot" and "extremely".
ICO is far more complex than any MMO available now, MMOs are just complicated.
This is the same as Linux nerds bashing the Windows nerds, no win.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naivetéIf anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Besides, you only have to upgrade your pc often if you want to stay at the maximum of cutting edge tech. Do you honestly think consoles somehow magically stay at the cutting edge of tech through the 6+ years between each generation of consoles? The difference is with a PC is you don't have to fall behind if you don't want to.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naivetéIf anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
You completely fail at comprehending the underlying complexities that make MMOs so drastically different than any other genre. While the graphics in WoW are simple, the underlying system is far more complex and involving than you make it out to be. If you understand this and understand the ins and outs of how your character works, you're going to succeed. If you don't, you won't.Here's an example: Rogues:
Rogues have about 7 specs that span three different weapons and are each played very differently from each other. Then, let's look at the formula's involved in how you need to address each different spec. For example, you want to go with combat swords. Well, the unassuming person would just find the highest dps swords and use them. They would be severely undercutting their abilities by doing that. Maybe they bought two 85dps swords, but they both have a speed of 1.90. Well, that means that the minimum and maximum damage on the mainhand sword is going to be so weak his sinister strikes (the main attack for this build) are going to be weak as hell. As for off-hand, the main purpose of off-hands for this spec are to generate extra energy (talent) and shiv poisons. The shiv mechanics would work out a 1.90 speed sword to 49 energy per shiv, rogues only have 100 energy (110 with a talent you wouldn't have with this spec). Also, because the weapon is fairly slow, you would get few energy procs with your offhand.
I'll stop there as it just gets more and more involved from there. While you certainly can put everything I just said in a nutshell, it doesn't matter because the complexities of the system are still there.
Putting that aside, WoW right now is about 9 gigs despite how simple the graphics appear. Vanguard is a whopping 22 gigs big and EQ 2 is about 14 (I'm guessing here). Game dvd's hold about 8-10 gigs of space. So, they're going to have to make it so the games get installed onto your console just like they currently are on pc's. Considering consoles have many times less HD space than a PC, you're going to be filling most of that with just one of these (half in the case of Vanguard).
Not to mention, what are they going to do in the case of expansions if they somehow manage to figure how to fit a huge game onto a single disc?
The point is in order to scale down mmos to fit into such a confined space (consoles) game developers are going to have trim down the scale on which mmos currently are created on. What is going to get cut out? How watered down can they make them and still have them be as complex? These questions are huge and the answers to both of them get cut down to, "A lot" and "extremely".
Complexity doesnt even factor into the difference between a console MMO and a PC MMO. You can have the same skills, same trees, same systems, etc.
Hard Drive space is nothing, 40 gigs is the standard size for PS3 and can be easily swapped out to a larger size. PS3 also uses Blu Ray DVDs, which hold 25-50gigs depending on the layer format (single layer is 25, dual layer is 50)
Again, the same game with the same complexity can exist between the 2 formats.
360 also has multiple HD sizes upto 120gigs, and can play games straight from the drive as well, so DVD sizes wouldnt matter, just as it doesnt matter on PC.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
That's -only- the ps3. The xbox 360 still uses dvd's, so what? Any console mmo is only going to be for the ps3? I realize they could make a ps3 and PC mmo, but again, comes back to the control restriction and no matter what you say, people turn on a console for the simple, fast controls gamepads offer.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naivetéIf anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
Why does it matter how complex a game is as long as its realy fun. And I dont agree with anything you say.
Right on the money. This will result in major back-steps in the MMORPG community as far as creating immerssive, detailed and strategic content.
Total naivetéIf anything you can thank WoW for making MMOs appeal to everyone. It doesn't really matter which system a game is on, a PC game is just as simple as a console game. If you look at current games, you will see they are almost all multiplatform and offer the same level of gameplay. The only real differences are the minor system specific bonuses (added level here, different weapon there) used to persuade a costumer.
And if you haven't noticed the current state of MMOs, graphics are all being tuned down to appeal to the masses who don't own a cutting edge system. Gone are the days of the uber impressive graphical superiority races.
Fyerwall, you are saying the same thing we are and perhaps don't realize it.
WoW was made as simpleton and of poor graphics quality as to allow the people who were used to playing with TV Toys to move in to the computer game market without stressing them out with future shock. They made WoW of a depth and mind-numbingly shallow play style so that people that had joystick calluses would be able to move fluidly in to this new game experience. It worked. WoW brought in millions of nintendo kiddies to the MMORPG population and in doing so, killed the genre.
And I agree with what you said that a PC game is just as simple as a console game, that is exactly why we have a massive problem! These little toys that have wires running across the living room floor to the TV can not play complex games. They can't handle detailed graphics. They are what they are - third generation Ataris.
I want them to stay away from my computer games.
It is just like the socialist pap that fills America's public school systems. "Run the class so that the stupidest child is able to get a good grade."
I don't want a game that can be played on a cell phone! I don't want a game to be made that can play DOWN to the level of these little toy boxes!
Computer games should be heading toward More complexity, but the stupid nintendo crowd is holding us back.
Sadly the game companies dont care about the person behind the money, just how much money they are making.Think of the situation more like adding an ice cube to water. Before the ice cube can begin cooling the water, both the water and ice have to come to a median temperature, the water getting cooler while the ice warms up and melts. Once this happens, the water starts to get cold.
If anything the same will happen with console gaming, in most cases it already is. Console gaming is getting more like PC gaming in the quality and type of games. Consoles are just catching upto PCs, and doing so, the games are too. Once you start making crossplatform multiplayer games, sure, it will be like wow for a while, but then the games will start to get more complex. Consoles being the water, PCs being the ice.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
TK, more complexity adds to longevity. Look at AO for example, still around, still has a good player base.
AO is probably THE most complex MMO out there. You could play for years and not experience all the game has to offer. this helps the players avoid boredom.
More complexity can also mean more options in the area of customising your character, more diversity among classes, more interesting and engaging game play.
Complexity is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life, after all.
Sadly game companies care almost nothing about complexity these days, and its PC gamers who are to blame, not console exclusive players. The PC is no longer the niche nerdtopia we knew and loved, and $100billion annual incomes care nothing about us.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
What would help PC gaming is for Developer Companies to not worry so much about kick ass graphics but rather just develop nice looking graphics that can be run on the average computer.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Than why didnt I like AO.
360 has multiple HD sizes (capping out at 120gb if im not mistaken) and can stream straight from the HD just like PC, so DVD capacity really doesnt matter there.
As for control restriction, its preference. If people decide to play an MMO on a console and the game supports keyboard/mouse and would play better with said config, then they would most likely use them.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats basically the point we have reached today. Today its more about style than polygon count.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
That seems to be the point both developers and gamers are missing. WoW is proving this right now due to the fact that their player base is right about at that classic peak where it is neither growing nor is it shrinking by any noticeable margin. It's due to the fact that a lot of players have done everything because WoW has made a lot of their content easier to approach (not to mention the pending release of WAR and AoC).
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
360 has multiple HD sizes (capping out at 120gb if im not mistaken) and can stream straight from the HD just like PC, so DVD capacity really doesnt matter there.
As for control restriction, its preference. If people decide to play an MMO on a console and the game supports keyboard/mouse and would play better with said config, then they would most likely use them.
You're missing the point. It's NOT just about preference. If you try to make a control interface that is easy to use on a gamepad you are not going to have the same level of control on a mouse and keyboard. The same applies in reverse, but in a different fashion; if you build your control interface around a mouse and keyboard then gamepads won't have the utility to function properly. Either way you're going to hurt one control style GREATLY depending on which you try to focus on. And the simple fact remains: the majority of console owners (including myself) turn on their consoles in order to pick up a gamepad for some quick game play.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
This is true and really speaks to a lot of different things in our society today. Games have the potential today to be so grand and complex, yet still extremely fun for anyone.However, 'TV-Toy' kids don't want to think about anything and just want instant gratification in the form of big, flashy explosions and dumbed-down stories that any intelligent person can follow while half asleep.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
I loved Ultima Online and thats not very simple.
Than why didnt I like AO.
Because you most likely enjoy more simple repetative games. Too each their own. But what the kids with the TV toys are missing in the discussion is that they are holding back PC gaming by having it dumbed down to their TV-Toy level.
This is true and really speaks to a lot of different things in our society today. Games have the potential today to be so grand and complex, yet still extremely fun for anyone.However, 'TV-Toy' kids don't want to think about anything and just want instant gratification in the form of big, flashy explosions and dumbed-down stories that any intelligent person can follow while half asleep.
Xenogears, Xenosaga, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy 6-7, KOTOR had dumb storys?
About the subject, current state on XBox 360. Oblivium wiki.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Xbox_360
-------------------------------
Official Mods
For the moment, you need to be connected to Xbox live to obtain the Official Mods. The mods are available from the Xbox Live Marketplace; you will need to pay for any mods using Microsoft Points. If there are multiple users on your Xbox 360, the mods will be available to all accounts (user profiles) on that console.
From October 2007, Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine will be available to buy in retail stores. See the Bethblog for more details.
If you wish to delete an official mod, you just need to delete the associated file. Under the "System" blade, select "Memory", "Hard Drive", "Games", then "Oblivion". The directory that is now open lists all your save files, and also lists any downloaded content. Select the file for the mod you want to get rid of, and choose delete. If you delete the mod file, you can subsequently download a new copy without having to pay for it again.
[edit] Unofficial Mods
Unofficial mods cannot be played on the Xbox 360. While it is possible to access the Xbox 360 with some programs, it is not possible to add mods since doing so would require creating an Xbox 360 container file, which is only possible if you know the encryption method and private key used to generate the hashed security certificates.
-------------------------------
Conclusion:
This suck.
HEHE I like your anaology (But it is very wrong as I will explain at the end)
Flip it around so that I can explain my view better, Computers = Water, Consoles = Ice. And the path to Better Games would be heating toward boiling point.
Both the water and the ice exchange in energy, but this missed the idea that both might have been heading toward boiling. The Ice (Console) has a larger delta T to reach boiling i.e. it is not as advanced a platform for gaming. Its games are older, simpler, more shallow than the Water (Computer).
Why should the Water (Computer) have to be set back from its goal of boiling (better games) just so that it can lend a hand in helping the nintendo-toys up to where the the computer games had been 4 years ago?
I don't want to sacrifice better more complex games just so that our slow-cousin can struggle to where we have already been.
Now... on to the error in the Water-Ice analogy. My undergrad was ChemEng/BioChem so seeing errors like this in print can't be left unaddressed.
The water-ice reaction would be a one way street. Water would loose energy to the ice and lower its ordered state to that of a liquid. The water gains no energy from the weakening of the hydrogen binding in solid ice. The water would not only loose the energy to raise the water to the melting point, but it also looses the additional melting energy needed to change the ice in to a liquid.
The New Age wackos have hijacked the word 'Energy' and have cause enormous harm to most people's understanding. Energy is a measurement of work, not a physical thing. There are no clouds of energy, no bioenergy, no psychic energy, no balls of energy. Energy is only a measurement it doesn't exist in and of itself.
But, since you used the Water-Ice analogy, I think it is fitting. Water (computers) suffers a massive loss of stored energy (advancement toward better games) in just getting the Ice (Nintendo-toys) up to the level of colder water. A net double loss for the Computer and a gain to the Console, only if you count being where the computer had already been years and years ago as a bonus to gaming
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
HEHE I like your anaology (But it is very wrong as I will explain at the end)
Flip it around so that I can explain my view better, Computers = Water, Consoles = Ice. And the path to Better Games would be heating toward boiling point.
Both the water and the ice exchange in energy, but this missed the idea that both might have been heading toward boiling. The Ice (Console) has a larger delta T to reach boiling i.e. it is not as advanced a platform for gaming. Its games are older, simpler, more shallow than the Water (Computer).
Why should the Water (Computer) have to be set back from its goal of boiling (better games) just so that it can lend a hand in helping the nintendo-toys up to where the the computer games had been 4 years ago?
I don't want to sacrifice better more complex games just so that our slow-cousin can struggle to where we have already been.
Now... on to the error in the Water-Ice analogy. My undergrad was ChemEng/BioChem so seeing errors like this in print can't be left unaddressed.
The water-ice reaction would be a one way street. Water would loose energy to the ice and lower its ordered state to that of a liquid. The water gains no energy from the weakening of the hydrogen binding in solid ice. The water would not only loose the energy to raise the water to the melting point, but it also looses the additional melting energy needed to change the ice in to a liquid.
The New Age wackos have hijacked the word 'Energy' and have cause enormous harm to most people's understanding. Energy is a measurement of work, not a physical thing. There are no clouds of energy, no bioenergy, no psychic energy, no balls of energy. Energy is only a measurement it doesn't exist in and of itself.
But, since you used the Water-Ice analogy, I think it is fitting. Water (computers) suffers a massive loss of stored energy (advancement toward better games) in just getting the Ice (Nintendo-toys) up to the level of colder water. A net double loss for the Computer and a gain to the Console, only if you count being where the computer had already been years and years ago as a bonus to gaming
Aye, its been over 11 years since science class and that was the best I could remember the process.
But If you look at console games, many of them are more complex than they were previous (not counting Nintendo titles because they would rather stick to family fun and simple games). Playstation games are becoming more like PC games every generation, and 360, well, its mostly nothing but PC ports. Both console and PC will work up/down to a level of complexity before they both evolve equally. Its basically because console gamers are getting tired of the same old platformer/mario type game and PC game developers want to find some avenue of income (where the PC game industry is plagued by pirating).
As I said, it will suck for a while, and theres not much a PC player can do, but it will eventually even out because console gamers will hear the stories and ask "Why can't we have something other than this?" It will be as you said a double net loss for PC gamers for a while, but over time it will be a gain to all gamers everywhere. The best we can do is convince the game makers that you dont have to slight one side to appease the other.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
This isn't really a tough debate.
Consoles are superior only in thier variety, visual appeal, and unique stories. Consoles give games that are the cinema of gaming. Consoles have better controls for platforming, 3rd person fighting, and adventure games. They have the most beautiful and artistic rpgs ever created (considering time quality disparity due to hardware generation gaps). They also used to have the fewest glitches.
PC's are the kings of war though. The areas of RTS, Turn-based Strategy, FPS, flight sim, all seem to be tailor made for mouse and keyboard controls. Nothing is stupider than aiming a crosshair reticule with a thumbstick. They are far superior in terms of Multiplayer ability thanks to the low cost of the standard PC internet connection, ease of start up, software cost, etc. The problem with PCs is hardware and overall game quality, thanks to software bugs, and the general lack of quality writing most PC games have. They make up for it with hard and furious action with much of the multilpayer gaming out there.
Neither platform suffers from a lack of interactivity, that's due to the game developer. Similary visual quality and playability are also dependent on the programmers who create it.
In short both have thier strong points and weak points, so there really is no overall winner. After all PC to Console ports suck as bad as Console to PC ports. Games are designed for thier platform, usually without errors. The only mistakes seem to be gaming companies releasing FPS games on a Console.