Originally posted by baff With over 2 billion Christians out there i think it's fairly sure you can assume that over 2 billion people think Christianity is the best, yes. And that if we were to poll every single inhabitant of the world as to which religion is the best, that the most numerous religion would come out as the winner. Popularity has a very large correlation with "the best". "The best" is a subjective term. It is a function of personal opinion.
WoW is the best because most people think it is the best.
This poll is skewed because it does not reflect that. Why, I don't know. All but the most absolute of denialists can instantly see that it is. We have had some examples of dev's promoting this websites poll to their fans. The Dev's at Eve Online used to have a direct link to this poll from their webpage, asking all their players to vote. And certainly the latest release MMO is usually found right at the top.
Perhaps it is more a function of the questions the poll asks in order to create it's score. While WoW for example is not my most favourite of MMO's, it is however the one I have subscribed to the longest. It is not my most favourite theme, as I don't like fantasy, but it is the best made. It's not the best value compared to some of the free ones I've played. And yet I didnt play any of the free ones for more than a few days.
The poll's results are skewed, because of the emphasis placed on the questions and the choice of questions. What makes a game "the best" differs for everyone. What makes a game the best for the creator of this poll clearly is not the same as what makes a game the best for the game buying public at large.
Baff, here's a quote I learned from my Psychology teacher when I was in college that you might find helpful.
"There are three kinds of deception, lies, damned lies, and POLLS" For exactly the same reasons you listed, but not just only the way the questions are asked, but also WHO they are asked to. Since you can't ask every single person in the world who has played an MMO to give their vote, you can only get a small sample of people, but that is all it is, a small sample, it isn't the whole picture, it's like trying to figure out what picture a 500 piece puzzle will look like by looking at just ONE piece. It's ridiculous.
Look at the 8.1 user rating. That would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game currently. The user rating system here is of very little credibility once the "fan wars" started.
That aside, what I do gleen from the rating system isn't how great a game is anymore. I read it like a advertisment of how many people from what games are looking for a different game. Honestly this site is almost exclusively devoted to MMOs advertising in the hopes to attract new players. The majority of people are here looking for something new to play and most likely rate the game they are playing highest.
The ratings list of developed games is like reading which game has more people ready to move on and the hype rating list is where they are thinking of heading.
The answer is a simple one. This forum is populated with people who are searching the MMO wasteland for that one *Gem* of a game that will respark their love for the genre. WoW is seen by most of these people as all that is wrong with MMOs today. These are the same people who rate the games here so because most here see WoW as evil incarnate it has a low rating. So you ask yourself why don't the 10+ million people who love WoW come here to bump up the ratings? Simple, they are far to busy playing WoW to even know this site exists or even care for that matter. They have their game so why come here? There is your answer pure and simple.
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
MMORPG.com is full of angry, disgruntled players who tend to either be elitist/snobby or bitter, and vote against the status quo at every possible opportunity in an attempt to tear down success
The people who are enjoying WoW are either playing the game and not wasting time here slamming it, or are the casual type who do not lurk on MMORPG websites and post their opinions
If you polled every single MMORPG player, otherwise known as taking a census, and asked them what the best MMORPG is, WoW would win. The problem is the sample voting here is not representative of the MMORPG community as a whole. This is a niche community and WoW is not a niche game - it is actually a successful one.
Anyway, always take reviews, opinions, and rankings here with a grain of salt. They mean almost nothing at all.
By the way, I do not currently play WoW but if I were to vote, I would say right now it is the best MMORPG on the market. It is stable, it is full of content, it caters to casual and hardcore players, it has PvE and PvP, and it is polished to a diamond-like brilliance.
But it will still be bashed as the devil of MMORPGs, despite somehow managing to be the most successful MMORPG of all time. Go figure.
MMORPG.com is full of angry, disgruntled players who tend to either be elitist/snobby or bitter, and vote against the status quo at every possible opportunity in an attempt to tear down success The people who are enjoying WoW are either playing the game and not wasting time here slamming it, or are the casual type who do not lurk on MMORPG websites and post their opinions
If you polled every single MMORPG player, otherwise known as taking a census, and asked them what the best MMORPG is, WoW would win. The problem is the sample voting here is not representative of the MMORPG community as a whole. This is a niche community and WoW is not a niche game - it is actually a successful one. Anyway, always take reviews, opinions, and rankings here with a grain of salt. They mean almost nothing at all. By the way, I do not currently play WoW but if I were to vote, I would say right now it is the best MMORPG on the market. It is stable, it is full of content, it caters to casual and hardcore players, it has PvE and PvP, and it is polished to a diamond-like brilliance. But it will still be bashed as the devil of MMORPGs, despite somehow managing to be the most successful MMORPG of all time. Go figure.
Alot of people think wow is a great game, but we are so tired of it, we just dont care how great it is , we are just done with it and want something else.
MMORPG.com is full of angry, disgruntled players who tend to either be elitist/snobby or bitter, and vote against the status quo at every possible opportunity in an attempt to tear down success The people who are enjoying WoW are either playing the game and not wasting time here slamming it, or are the casual type who do not lurk on MMORPG websites and post their opinions
If you polled every single MMORPG player, otherwise known as taking a census, and asked them what the best MMORPG is, WoW would win. The problem is the sample voting here is not representative of the MMORPG community as a whole. This is a niche community and WoW is not a niche game - it is actually a successful one. Anyway, always take reviews, opinions, and rankings here with a grain of salt. They mean almost nothing at all. By the way, I do not currently play WoW but if I were to vote, I would say right now it is the best MMORPG on the market. It is stable, it is full of content, it caters to casual and hardcore players, it has PvE and PvP, and it is polished to a diamond-like brilliance. But it will still be bashed as the devil of MMORPGs, despite somehow managing to be the most successful MMORPG of all time. Go figure.
Completely wrong. They want to know why WoW isnt ranked #1 here. Its verry easy to figure out. It has nothing to do with being an eliteist, snobby or anything else. People here are dying for something new. Most here are MMO vets who have played the classics and want something similar. They are also tired of seeing games come out that arent trying to improve on the industry but are just trying to copy WoW's sucess and they blame WoW for it.....and rightfully so.
Just because people here dont follow the masses like sheep doesnt make them snobby, disgruntled or eliteists. It makes them there own person. Sorry you cant handle that.
I highly doubt it would win if every MMO player was polled? You obviously haven't heard of the popularity of some MMOs in the Asian market...
Well, seeing as how this is an English-speaking website, it should have been implied I meant the English-speaking MMORPG market.
As for the previous post, being burned out and tired of a game is not a reason to rank it poorly. The people who feel cheated because they got tired of a game after 6, 12, 24, or 48 months and come here to thrash it as crappy and boring never cease to amaze me. It is perfectly human and normal to grow tired of something. The scary thing is people who can do one thing day in and day out for years on end and never cease being entertained.
I do not play WoW anymore because I got bored of it, but it was still an excellent game in my eyes.
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering.
McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS.
People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in.
Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering.
McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS.
People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
I agree completely.
Analogies are only accurate when the comparisons are valid and represent similar circumstances.
In the world of subscription MMORPGs, every MMORPG exists within roughly the same environment. Age of Conan, for example, costs roughly the same as WoW and competes directly with WoW. Therefore, if one were to say that AoC is a high-quality game, like caviar in the food world, and WoW is a mass-market, low-quality game, like a cheeseburger in the food world, one would make absolutely zero sense. You cannot say one MMORPG is selling poorly compared to another because it is a finer product, since the subscription MMORPG market is not tiered like that. By selling an equally-priced product in the same market as another equally-priced product and losing to it, you cannot rationalize it in terms of quality vs. quantity.
A cheeseburger does not compete with caviar in the world of cuisine - it is fast food vs. gourmet food. No one walks into a McDonald's because they are expecting an expensive, fine dining experience. People approach MMORPGs on an equal footing, however, so popularity in the world of MMORPGs is pertinent and is an indicator of quality and success.
Now, if MMORPG "A" cost ten times as much as MMORPG "B" and had one/tenth the sales, fine, one could argue "A" was as good or even better than "B", it just served a different market and its lower population was a result of it being more expensive and, hopefully, better. But, that is not at all the case here and that is why WoW > other MMORPGs.
Show me an MMORPG with a subscription price of $100 dollars per month with 1,000,000 subscribers and then I'll call that the caviar of MMORPGs. Until then, all of this mass-market vs. quality business is pure garbage.
Cause these forums are full of elitist twat heads who think shit games are better as noone plays them so it makes them "hardcore" lol......
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
The polls only says what the mmorpg.com community likes not the whole community. And to be fair, many here are bashing popular games, guess they think they takes players from their chosen game or something.
I would say that Wow is a good game but the best? Then you have to consider what you think is best. The graphics are really outdated but the buggs are few. Blizzards support used to be the best but recently the number of players complaining on it have grown a lot. The quests are good but it is to much faction grinding. The game balance is quite good but far from perfect. And there is too many kids in the community for my taste. And the gameworld is ok but both LOTRO and AoCs worlds (and upcomming WAR) have better ones. So what is best for you is totaly depending on your criterias, since I really like good graphics I would say I think Eve is better than Wow but that is just cause I dont have the same criteria as many else.
If WoW is the biggest MMO out there, shouldn't it get higher ranking?... makes me question the entire list... kinda unfair for games that perhaps should have been higher ranked
Aha.
So the british Sun and the german Bildzeitung are the best newspaper of their countries because they sell more issues than any other ?
This is just my opinion but WoW was made for the "masses" to play. Not the Gamers but the masses of people that have never tried a MMO game.
They made the PC requirements so very low and the game so easy to learn and enjoy.
But this MMORPG site isn't visited by the "Masses". That's why WoW isn't rated number 1. This site is mostly visited by long term gamers- people that have played many MMO's over the years.
Cause these forums are full of elitist twat heads who think shit games are better as noone plays them so it makes them "hardcore" lol......
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
Lets be honest now. The drama in old school MMOs was epic in comparison to todays mmos.
EQvault was a cesse pool of hatred, UO was a griefers haven that chased new players away so they had to change the entire game. Ninja looting, corpse camping, training, kill stealing and all those nasty habits existed long before WoW was even a thought. Seriously, EQ had to implement the "Play Nice Policy", because the games population had that much trouble getting along.
I am actually sursprised at the thin skin and selcetive memmory old school players display sometimes. New MMOs blather on in mostly harmless banter and chuck norris jokes and peole cry how terrible the new communities are and the plague they are inflicting on the genre.
I miss the more social aspects of older MMO designs, but I don't miss the hatred and drama they bred. I suspect most people just look back at the old times with rose colored glasses sometimes.
This is just my opinion but WoW was made for the "masses" to play. Not the Gamers but the masses of people that have never tried a MMO game.
They made the PC requirements so very low and the game so easy to learn and enjoy.
But this MMORPG site isn't visited by the "Masses". That's why WoW isn't rated number 1. This site is mostly visited by long term gamers- people that have played many MMO's over the years.
i agree there is a "mmo" (here) community, and a "WoW" community, people here are mainly players looking for something different or a different style as the WoW community is made up of adults who played the game for long time and kids who were recommended by their friends to play
WoW is by no means the best MMORPG out there. Just has the most subs.
But really it doesn't make sense, it's got 10 mill subs, millions more than any other game, and it's ranked at some 20th or so?
there are asian MMOs that make wow look like it has no subs. why aren't they listed?
no one likes games that force you to raid for hours on end, in order to MAYBE get one item... then to do that same dungeon, in the same exact way, another 40-100 times... then rinse/repeat for the next dungeon.
that is the most incredibly boring garbage to ever hit the MMO world.
Well I wouldn't say NO ONE likes games that force you to raid for hours because obviously a lot of people do otherwise Blizzard wouldn't be so frickin rich right now! Clearly those guys have made a ton of $ on the game so your opinion doesn't seem to matter now does it lol?
Personally, I'm not a fan of WoW. In fact I enjoy bashing it like others. But atleast I'm not retarded enough to try to say its a POS because so many people play it on a regular basis. I am anxiously awaiting WAR which has its fanbois and trolls as well. I don't fall into either of the extremes.
Valid point OP. But like many have said...those statistics are pretty well skewed. Just play what makes you happy.
Originally posted by Vortigon Originally posted by Bane82
Originally posted by Vortigon There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in. Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair. It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible) Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Let me make this easier for you to understand then, Stupid analogies do not = valid arguments to compare WoW to other games. Make LOGICAL analogies, or your argument falls apart.
Originally posted by xenogias Originally posted by Sornin WoW is not ranked number one for two reasons: [*]MMORPG.com is full of angry, disgruntled players who tend to either be elitist/snobby or bitter, and vote against the status quo at every possible opportunity in an attempt to tear down success The people who are enjoying WoW are either playing the game and not wasting time here slamming it, or are the casual type who do not lurk on MMORPG websites and post their opinions If you polled every single MMORPG player, otherwise known as taking a census, and asked them what the best MMORPG is, WoW would win. The problem is the sample voting here is not representative of the MMORPG community as a whole. This is a niche community and WoW is not a niche game - it is actually a successful one. Anyway, always take reviews, opinions, and rankings here with a grain of salt. They mean almost nothing at all. By the way, I do not currently play WoW but if I were to vote, I would say right now it is the best MMORPG on the market. It is stable, it is full of content, it caters to casual and hardcore players, it has PvE and PvP, and it is polished to a diamond-like brilliance. But it will still be bashed as the devil of MMORPGs, despite somehow managing to be the most successful MMORPG of all time. Go figure.
Completely wrong. They want to know why WoW isnt ranked #1 here. Its verry easy to figure out. It has nothing to do with being an eliteist, snobby or anything else. People here are dying for something new. Most here are MMO vets who have played the classics and want something similar. They are also tired of seeing games come out that arent trying to improve on the industry but are just trying to copy WoW's sucess and they blame WoW for it.....and rightfully so. Just because people here dont follow the masses like sheep doesnt make them snobby, disgruntled or eliteists. It makes them there own person. Sorry you cant handle that.
WRONG! no one from Blizzard is putting a gun on ANY of these companies heads and saying "DO IT MORE LIKE WOW!". Face it, the reason why the games YOU want to succeed aren't succeeding is, because they don't have the cojones to try something different and follow their own vision. They're sheep, they're followers, that's why they're not putting out the games you want to play with the game mechanics you want to play.
Originally posted by Sornin Originally posted by Daffid011 Originally posted by Vortigon Originally posted by Bane82
Originally posted by Vortigon There is no link between the quality of a game and its subscription numbers, to think otherwise just means you don't understand the world you live in. Mcdonalds is the most popular food outlet in the world, but I wouldn't rank it number one for quality, its really very simple.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair. It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible) Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering. McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS. People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
I agree completely. Analogies are only accurate when the comparisons are valid and represent similar circumstances. In the world of subscription MMORPGs, every MMORPG exists within roughly the same environment. Age of Conan, for example, costs roughly the same as WoW and competes directly with WoW. Therefore, if one were to say that AoC is a high-quality game, like caviar in the food world, and WoW is a mass-market, low-quality game, like a cheeseburger in the food world, one would make absolutely zero sense. You cannot say one MMORPG is selling poorly compared to another because it is a finer product, since the subscription MMORPG market is not tiered like that. By selling an equally-priced product in the same market as another equally-priced product and losing to it, you cannot rationalize it in terms of quality vs. quantity. A cheeseburger does not compete with caviar in the world of cuisine - it is fast food vs. gourmet food. No one walks into a McDonald's because they are expecting an expensive, fine dining experience. People approach MMORPGs on an equal footing, however, so popularity in the world of MMORPGs is pertinent and is an indicator of quality and success. Now, if MMORPG "A" cost ten times as much as MMORPG "B" and had one/tenth the sales, fine, one could argue "A" was as good or even better than "B", it just served a different market and its lower population was a result of it being more expensive and, hopefully, better. But, that is not at all the case here and that is why WoW other MMORPGs. Show me an MMORPG with a subscription price of $100 dollars per month with 1,000,000 subscribers and then I'll call that the caviar of MMORPGs. Until then, all of this mass-market vs. quality business is pure garbage.
Thank you god! Finally a couple of people with good heads on their shoulders and actually understood what I was trying to say. My god why can't their be more users with common sense like the 2 of you?
Originally posted by ronan32 Originally posted by JustBe Cause these forums are full of elitist twat heads who think shit games are better as noone plays them so it makes them "hardcore" lol......
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
WRONG! There were always trolls in MMORPG's and there were always bad people, gankers, elitist snobs etc, all the way back to UO. The only difference from now and that "golden age" you try to paint, is that now there are more MMO's out there, so the bad players have become more noticeable due to the bigger numbers and the more choices they have to play. Face it, the REAL reason you are upset, is becaust MMO's have become so popular, you no longer feel "special", so now you make up an excuse to try to paint "back then" as some sort of "golden age".
Sorry pal, I was there (during UO and EQ), and there were a-holes back then too. So don't come blaming this on "the new generation" because this was there during "your generation" too
Comments
Baff, here's a quote I learned from my Psychology teacher when I was in college that you might find helpful.
"There are three kinds of deception, lies, damned lies, and POLLS" For exactly the same reasons you listed, but not just only the way the questions are asked, but also WHO they are asked to. Since you can't ask every single person in the world who has played an MMO to give their vote, you can only get a small sample of people, but that is all it is, a small sample, it isn't the whole picture, it's like trying to figure out what picture a 500 piece puzzle will look like by looking at just ONE piece. It's ridiculous.
Look at the 8.1 user rating. That would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game currently. The user rating system here is of very little credibility once the "fan wars" started.
That aside, what I do gleen from the rating system isn't how great a game is anymore. I read it like a advertisment of how many people from what games are looking for a different game. Honestly this site is almost exclusively devoted to MMOs advertising in the hopes to attract new players. The majority of people are here looking for something new to play and most likely rate the game they are playing highest.
The ratings list of developed games is like reading which game has more people ready to move on and the hype rating list is where they are thinking of heading.
The answer is a simple one. This forum is populated with people who are searching the MMO wasteland for that one *Gem* of a game that will respark their love for the genre. WoW is seen by most of these people as all that is wrong with MMOs today. These are the same people who rate the games here so because most here see WoW as evil incarnate it has a low rating. So you ask yourself why don't the 10+ million people who love WoW come here to bump up the ratings? Simple, they are far to busy playing WoW to even know this site exists or even care for that matter. They have their game so why come here? There is your answer pure and simple.
Bren
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I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
WoW is not ranked number one for two reasons:
If you polled every single MMORPG player, otherwise known as taking a census, and asked them what the best MMORPG is, WoW would win. The problem is the sample voting here is not representative of the MMORPG community as a whole. This is a niche community and WoW is not a niche game - it is actually a successful one.
Anyway, always take reviews, opinions, and rankings here with a grain of salt. They mean almost nothing at all.
By the way, I do not currently play WoW but if I were to vote, I would say right now it is the best MMORPG on the market. It is stable, it is full of content, it caters to casual and hardcore players, it has PvE and PvP, and it is polished to a diamond-like brilliance.
But it will still be bashed as the devil of MMORPGs, despite somehow managing to be the most successful MMORPG of all time. Go figure.
Alot of people think wow is a great game, but we are so tired of it, we just dont care how great it is , we are just done with it and want something else.
I highly doubt it would win if every MMO player was polled? You obviously haven't heard of the popularity of some MMOs in the Asian market...
Completely wrong. They want to know why WoW isnt ranked #1 here. Its verry easy to figure out. It has nothing to do with being an eliteist, snobby or anything else. People here are dying for something new. Most here are MMO vets who have played the classics and want something similar. They are also tired of seeing games come out that arent trying to improve on the industry but are just trying to copy WoW's sucess and they blame WoW for it.....and rightfully so.
Just because people here dont follow the masses like sheep doesnt make them snobby, disgruntled or eliteists. It makes them there own person. Sorry you cant handle that.
Well, seeing as how this is an English-speaking website, it should have been implied I meant the English-speaking MMORPG market.
As for the previous post, being burned out and tired of a game is not a reason to rank it poorly. The people who feel cheated because they got tired of a game after 6, 12, 24, or 48 months and come here to thrash it as crappy and boring never cease to amaze me. It is perfectly human and normal to grow tired of something. The scary thing is people who can do one thing day in and day out for years on end and never cease being entertained.
I do not play WoW anymore because I got bored of it, but it was still an excellent game in my eyes.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering.
McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS.
People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
Never seen that on the menu....
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
Well, seeing as how this is an English-speaking website, it should have been implied I meant the English-speaking MMORPG market.
Many Asians understand English too you know
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering.
McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS.
People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
I agree completely.
Analogies are only accurate when the comparisons are valid and represent similar circumstances.
In the world of subscription MMORPGs, every MMORPG exists within roughly the same environment. Age of Conan, for example, costs roughly the same as WoW and competes directly with WoW. Therefore, if one were to say that AoC is a high-quality game, like caviar in the food world, and WoW is a mass-market, low-quality game, like a cheeseburger in the food world, one would make absolutely zero sense. You cannot say one MMORPG is selling poorly compared to another because it is a finer product, since the subscription MMORPG market is not tiered like that. By selling an equally-priced product in the same market as another equally-priced product and losing to it, you cannot rationalize it in terms of quality vs. quantity.
A cheeseburger does not compete with caviar in the world of cuisine - it is fast food vs. gourmet food. No one walks into a McDonald's because they are expecting an expensive, fine dining experience. People approach MMORPGs on an equal footing, however, so popularity in the world of MMORPGs is pertinent and is an indicator of quality and success.
Now, if MMORPG "A" cost ten times as much as MMORPG "B" and had one/tenth the sales, fine, one could argue "A" was as good or even better than "B", it just served a different market and its lower population was a result of it being more expensive and, hopefully, better. But, that is not at all the case here and that is why WoW > other MMORPGs.
Show me an MMORPG with a subscription price of $100 dollars per month with 1,000,000 subscribers and then I'll call that the caviar of MMORPGs. Until then, all of this mass-market vs. quality business is pure garbage.
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
The polls only says what the mmorpg.com community likes not the whole community. And to be fair, many here are bashing popular games, guess they think they takes players from their chosen game or something.
I would say that Wow is a good game but the best? Then you have to consider what you think is best. The graphics are really outdated but the buggs are few. Blizzards support used to be the best but recently the number of players complaining on it have grown a lot. The quests are good but it is to much faction grinding. The game balance is quite good but far from perfect. And there is too many kids in the community for my taste. And the gameworld is ok but both LOTRO and AoCs worlds (and upcomming WAR) have better ones. So what is best for you is totaly depending on your criterias, since I really like good graphics I would say I think Eve is better than Wow but that is just cause I dont have the same criteria as many else.
Aha.
So the british Sun and the german Bildzeitung are the best newspaper of their countries because they sell more issues than any other ?
And Windows is the best operating system ?
Harry Potter is the best computer game ?
Technics does the best hi-fi systems ?
China is the best country ?
Walmart is the best shop ?
<Mod Edit>
But really it doesn't make sense, it's got 10 mill subs, millions more than any other game, and it's ranked at some 20th or so?
Cause its a commercial game. Britney Spears surely has more fallowers, but is her music really better then that of "The Doors" or I dunno "Metallica"?
Even better example.
This is just my opinion but WoW was made for the "masses" to play. Not the Gamers but the masses of people that have never tried a MMO game.
They made the PC requirements so very low and the game so easy to learn and enjoy.
But this MMORPG site isn't visited by the "Masses". That's why WoW isn't rated number 1. This site is mostly visited by long term gamers- people that have played many MMO's over the years.
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
Lets be honest now. The drama in old school MMOs was epic in comparison to todays mmos.
EQvault was a cesse pool of hatred, UO was a griefers haven that chased new players away so they had to change the entire game. Ninja looting, corpse camping, training, kill stealing and all those nasty habits existed long before WoW was even a thought. Seriously, EQ had to implement the "Play Nice Policy", because the games population had that much trouble getting along.
I am actually sursprised at the thin skin and selcetive memmory old school players display sometimes. New MMOs blather on in mostly harmless banter and chuck norris jokes and peole cry how terrible the new communities are and the plague they are inflicting on the genre.
I miss the more social aspects of older MMO designs, but I don't miss the hatred and drama they bred. I suspect most people just look back at the old times with rose colored glasses sometimes.
i agree there is a "mmo" (here) community, and a "WoW" community, people here are mainly players looking for something different or a different style as the WoW community is made up of adults who played the game for long time and kids who were recommended by their friends to play
But really it doesn't make sense, it's got 10 mill subs, millions more than any other game, and it's ranked at some 20th or so?
there are asian MMOs that make wow look like it has no subs. why aren't they listed?
no one likes games that force you to raid for hours on end, in order to MAYBE get one item... then to do that same dungeon, in the same exact way, another 40-100 times... then rinse/repeat for the next dungeon.
that is the most incredibly boring garbage to ever hit the MMO world.
Well I wouldn't say NO ONE likes games that force you to raid for hours because obviously a lot of people do otherwise Blizzard wouldn't be so frickin rich right now! Clearly those guys have made a ton of $ on the game so your opinion doesn't seem to matter now does it lol?
Personally, I'm not a fan of WoW. In fact I enjoy bashing it like others. But atleast I'm not retarded enough to try to say its a POS because so many people play it on a regular basis. I am anxiously awaiting WAR which has its fanbois and trolls as well. I don't fall into either of the extremes.
Valid point OP. But like many have said...those statistics are pretty well skewed. Just play what makes you happy.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Let me make this easier for you to understand then, Stupid analogies do not = valid arguments to compare WoW to other games. Make LOGICAL analogies, or your argument falls apart.
Completely wrong. They want to know why WoW isnt ranked #1 here. Its verry easy to figure out. It has nothing to do with being an eliteist, snobby or anything else. People here are dying for something new. Most here are MMO vets who have played the classics and want something similar. They are also tired of seeing games come out that arent trying to improve on the industry but are just trying to copy WoW's sucess and they blame WoW for it.....and rightfully so.
Just because people here dont follow the masses like sheep doesnt make them snobby, disgruntled or eliteists. It makes them there own person. Sorry you cant handle that.
WRONG! no one from Blizzard is putting a gun on ANY of these companies heads and saying "DO IT MORE LIKE WOW!". Face it, the reason why the games YOU want to succeed aren't succeeding is, because they don't have the cojones to try something different and follow their own vision. They're sheep, they're followers, that's why they're not putting out the games you want to play with the game mechanics you want to play.
I find it funny that people are trying to equate WoW to Mc Donalds, and then compare Mc Donalds with a fine "wine and dine" restaurant when they're not even the same thing! You want to compare apples to apples? then compare Mc Donalds to another fast food place like Wendy's (yes, PLACE, not restaurant) or compare two actual dine-in restaurants. These analogies are so far off it's not even funny, and yet they've been used over and over for no other reason other than "well, since Mc Donalds also sells in the millions, and WoW has subscription in the millions, they must be the same, so lets do a really lame comparison between a fast food place and a fine sit-in french/italian/greek/etc. cuisine restaurant" Come on people! at least make the comparisons fair! Is that too much to ask? Nevermind, I forgot I'm dealing with a bunch of so called "elitist MMO snobs" of course you're not going to be fair.
It seems that even that small paragraph was too much for you to understand, so I will make it shorter and simpler (if that's possible)
Quantity does NOT = Quality - that's as easy as I can make it without drawing pictures.
Where the mcdonalds analogy first breaks down every single time is people compare McDonalds to every single other food establishment there is, instead of the analogy of like products. That being fast food vs fast food. Comparing Fast Food to fine dinging is like comparing an MMO to magic the gathering.
McDonalds actually has very high standards when compared to other LIKE products. In fact it is easily arguable that McDonalds has higher quality, service and food than any of its COMPETITORS.
People always pick McDonalds, because it is represntative of something with a negative stigma and they want to portrait WoW in that same negative light of the whole Popular doesn't mean quality. Despite how McDonalds is higher quality than its competitors strange how no one ever picks anything else that is wide spread popular and is best of product. Say like an Ipod?
The only reason McDonalds is chosen is for the negative stigma.
I agree completely.
Analogies are only accurate when the comparisons are valid and represent similar circumstances.
In the world of subscription MMORPGs, every MMORPG exists within roughly the same environment. Age of Conan, for example, costs roughly the same as WoW and competes directly with WoW. Therefore, if one were to say that AoC is a high-quality game, like caviar in the food world, and WoW is a mass-market, low-quality game, like a cheeseburger in the food world, one would make absolutely zero sense. You cannot say one MMORPG is selling poorly compared to another because it is a finer product, since the subscription MMORPG market is not tiered like that. By selling an equally-priced product in the same market as another equally-priced product and losing to it, you cannot rationalize it in terms of quality vs. quantity.
A cheeseburger does not compete with caviar in the world of cuisine - it is fast food vs. gourmet food. No one walks into a McDonald's because they are expecting an expensive, fine dining experience. People approach MMORPGs on an equal footing, however, so popularity in the world of MMORPGs is pertinent and is an indicator of quality and success.
Now, if MMORPG "A" cost ten times as much as MMORPG "B" and had one/tenth the sales, fine, one could argue "A" was as good or even better than "B", it just served a different market and its lower population was a result of it being more expensive and, hopefully, better. But, that is not at all the case here and that is why WoW other MMORPGs.
Show me an MMORPG with a subscription price of $100 dollars per month with 1,000,000 subscribers and then I'll call that the caviar of MMORPGs. Until then, all of this mass-market vs. quality business is pure garbage.
Thank you god! Finally a couple of people with good heads on their shoulders and actually understood what I was trying to say. My god why can't their be more users with common sense like the 2 of you?
and if you're the opposite of that, then i would rather throw my lot in with the elitist twats..mmorpg.com is mainly made up of old school players who have a dislike for the new generation of mmo's and the new players that they bring, like you. you know one time mmo's had good communities with nice people, and then wow happened. The worst thing to happen to the genre.
WRONG! There were always trolls in MMORPG's and there were always bad people, gankers, elitist snobs etc, all the way back to UO. The only difference from now and that "golden age" you try to paint, is that now there are more MMO's out there, so the bad players have become more noticeable due to the bigger numbers and the more choices they have to play. Face it, the REAL reason you are upset, is becaust MMO's have become so popular, you no longer feel "special", so now you make up an excuse to try to paint "back then" as some sort of "golden age".
Sorry pal, I was there (during UO and EQ), and there were a-holes back then too. So don't come blaming this on "the new generation" because this was there during "your generation" too