Firstly I was talking about 5 servers, not just one so what?
SecondlY I don't think you understood at all, more servers = Multiply the numbers = same result.
If MORE people want to play destruction then Order maxing it per server to same people per side doesn't do *anything*
All it does is create a few servers that end up being balanced and the rest of the servers full of destruction and no order.
Either that or you force them to roll order somehow. The notion that all these people will suddenly just feel happy to roll order is ludicrous at best in my opinion, some will, but it's *highly* unlikely the majority will want to, especially if their friends already rolled destruction somewhere which is extremely likely considering many people will want to (assuming destruction will be the overpopulated side here for arguments sake).
Also mentioning Blizzard here is pointless, they don't have a tug of war as their design. If Mythic doesn't keep the sides equal the game *Fails*. End of Story. You can't have a tug of war with unequal sides.
Yes, but how do you know that many people will play one faction? That is pure speculation, and there is no way to support it will happen one way or the other.
Sure the hardcore audience, who go to forums, and support the game by going to conventions, are following destruction mainly, but what about the casual crowd? You have no idea what their consensus will be, and the hardcore demographic makes up very little of the game's overall population.
Mythic designed a game with THREE sides, Dark Age of Camelot, and there were no significant balance issues. They know what they are doing.
The argument was about *overpopulation*. If you're not gonna stick to that just don't comment.
As for Mythic designing Daoc before... this is WAR. Imbalance in Daoc did very little to nothing apart from shift a relic once in a while and open a dungeon every now and then.
War is a clear cut "Tug of war" between 2 sides. A tug of war *fails* if one side is clearly stronger than the other, end of line, period. This isn't Daoc, it's WAR. If you can't overcome the other side in this game you don't just have the ability to ignore it and just be out a few percentages of strength due to lost relics, no you'll not see half the game nor get to experience the best parts of it safe for the defending part.
WAR is *not* Daoc and the same thing would never work in WAR.
So if the server SOFT cap fails you give the underdogs buffs to even the playing field. But then you go on Destruction and complain that you lose all the time because Order is way too powerful, even though you outnumber him 5 to 1.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
More like 30. Though, that might've been the total number when everything's said and done, not at launch - but I was pretty sure there's 30 at launch.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Firstly I was talking about 5 servers, not just one so what?
SecondlY I don't think you understood at all, more servers = Multiply the numbers = same result.
If MORE people want to play destruction then Order maxing it per server to same people per side doesn't do *anything*
All it does is create a few servers that end up being balanced and the rest of the servers full of destruction and no order.
Either that or you force them to roll order somehow. The notion that all these people will suddenly just feel happy to roll order is ludicrous at best in my opinion, some will, but it's *highly* unlikely the majority will want to, especially if their friends already rolled destruction somewhere which is extremely likely considering many people will want to (assuming destruction will be the overpopulated side here for arguments sake).
Also mentioning Blizzard here is pointless, they don't have a tug of war as their design. If Mythic doesn't keep the sides equal the game *Fails*. End of Story. You can't have a tug of war with unequal sides.
Yes, but how do you know that many people will play one faction? That is pure speculation, and there is no way to support it will happen one way or the other.
Sure the hardcore audience, who go to forums, and support the game by going to conventions, are following destruction mainly, but what about the casual crowd? You have no idea what their consensus will be, and the hardcore demographic makes up very little of the game's overall population.
Mythic designed a game with THREE sides, Dark Age of Camelot, and there were no significant balance issues. They know what they are doing.
The argument was about *overpopulation*. If you're not gonna stick to that just don't comment.
As for Mythic designing Daoc before... this is WAR. Imbalance in Daoc did very little to nothing apart from shift a relic once in a while and open a dungeon every now and then.
War is a clear cut "Tug of war" between 2 sides. A tug of war *fails* if one side is clearly stronger than the other, end of line, period. This isn't Daoc, it's WAR. If you can't overcome the other side in this game you don't just have the ability to ignore it and just be out a few percentages of strength due to lost relics, no you'll not see half the game nor get to experience the best parts of it safe for the defending part.
WAR is *not* Daoc and the same thing would never work in WAR.
So if the server SOFT cap fails you give the underdogs buffs to even the playing field. But then you go on Destruction and complain that you lose all the time because Order is way too powerful, even though you outnumber him 5 to 1.
The last thing i'd want is for a group of 5 or so to easily beat my group simply because they happened to have picked the less populated side. That's just ludicrous.
Faction imbalance? 2000 destruction vs 1000 order. Disable destruction creation. For guilds/friends, allow for them to invite people to flag destruction on that server. Like 5 flags per person, and a person invited in can't invite others. And once order closes in, destruction is opened up. Taadaaa. But really, once the casual people get in, order will dominate, the same way alliance was overpopulated throughout the beginning of wows release.
also CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. Game releases with 2 "raids" more to be added later, ooooo so different. ooooo so much less content then other mmos. ignoring the fact theres 27 other zones 4-12 battlegrounds 2 end game raids unknown dungeon amount. 100+ Public quests 27+keeps to fight over. Sooo it's not like they cut even 10% of the content... maybe 2% also CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT STARTING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT TRADING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE NOT MEETING AREAS CAPITAL CITIES ARE END GAME RAIDS, AKIN TO MOLTEN CORE. sorry to have to spam that, but you people just aren't catching on
Lets just hope that with this news all WoW kids keep away from WAR
Hehe, this "oh mythic make the game look bad so that WoW kids dont come to WAR" argument always makes me LOL. You guys really think that Mythic would do anything that would drive away WoW players?
Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish.
Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish. Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
I dunno man....the testers have been able to go through that content I believe and I've yet to hear about anything lacking. There are always leaks, its not even hard to find them. Most importantly, the NDA will be dropped long before release...so its not something we will have to speculate over before buying. In fact, the very fact that the NDA IS going to drop so early is a good sign that the polish is probably spot on.
Otherwise, they would pull teh same move as Funcom and keep people restricted to low level zones until release. I KNEW what was going on when they did that. WAR is being very open about all aspects of their game thus far...while I'd never expect a "holy grail", I do think it speaks volumes for their game.
Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish. Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish. Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
you know whats sad about this post ?
100's hell 1000's of people will be backing this statement up over the next few weeks .
with out going to far into it , only a small minority of the beta testers ( they are refered to as elders ) will ever see the true end game content . not untill after release will every one know what we get to see / test . as cool as that may be for us , it's going to suck seeing 5000000000000000 posts like this every day and have to keep our mouths shut .
It isn't WAR's fault, they had a great concept, but unfortunately, it's the concept that they gave to the people. Now that they're working out the concept, they realize that they were too ambitious. Low-End/Mid-Range PC's wouldn't be able to handle it.
Wait till the Beta, another shitload of idiots, who just want to test the game for themselves, rather than helping Mythic/WAR fixing bugs. After that we'll see the same posts as a few weeks ago, "they betrayed us" "no they wouldn't" "my precious". Yes, I can comparing those people to Smeagol, at first they're over-anticipated, than they hate it. I'm pretty sure that when the bugs got fixed, new content got added and it is overall more polished, the Smeagols will return, and live happily ever after.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
"I will admit to not following development of this game much at all, until recently as I have a friend very anxious for it to come out. But as I see the boards here and elsewhere lighting up in the wake of the news about the content/feature cuts I see something not being discussed.
What does this say for the whole of the game in terms of where it is developmentally?
It seems to me the big story is not that this stuff is being cut but that the game is so underdeveloped at this point that it hasn't already had them done and undergoing polish and balancing preparing for release. And what about the stuff that makes it in, are we to believe they are polished and balanced to any reasonable degree given that they where implemented and developed with these other features planned but never implemented?
It seems to me this is a much more serious indicator of a game headed for trouble than the loss of a bit of content and features would indicate."
From the reports from beta, I think there is valid concern:
"Very disappointed to found out this game isnt a real open world. While there is little or no noticable loading times between zones you cannot move around freely in the world, you cannot travel to or explore around 60% of the games world map. You have no real sence of your location in the world, you might know where you are but it all feels closed up and fake. All 3 starting areas are closed off from each other, you cant run from say empire land to dwarf land, you have to take a flightmaster ride and zone there, which has a short load screen. There is no wilderness to explore, almost everything and everywhere has a road running through it.
You cant even jump into the water from the harbor in Altdorf, an invisible wall blocks you off from having a swim, im sure many of you have seen the capital cities vid that shows the harbor, when i first saw that vid i thought "great! theres ships! i wonder where they would take you!" they dont take you anywhere there all static and just part of the scenery. theres even 1 ship thats a little further away from the pier like its already set sail, but it doesnt even move, its like staring at a screenshot of a ship that just set sail. All those buildings and structures you can see in that vid on the other side of the river is just a backdrop, you cant go there. Fair enough if that was the edge of the world map... but it isnt! Just imagine the games world is like planet earth but your travel is restricted to only 3 countries say usa, brazil and spain, you can fly between those 3 countries and move around semi-freely in them but you can never travel anywhere else in the world, you cant travel the world or take a holiday and explore/adventure anywhere else.
unless they make some drastic changes weve got yet another un-immersive world to play around in."
It isn't WAR's fault, they had a great concept, but unfortunately, it's the concept that they gave to the people. Now that they're working out the concept, they realize that they were too ambitious. Low-End/Mid-Range PC's wouldn't be able to handle it. Wait till the Beta, another shitload of idiots, who just want to test the game for themselves, rather than helping Mythic/WAR fixing bugs. After that we'll see the same posts as a few weeks ago, "they betrayed us" "no they wouldn't" "my precious". Yes, I can comparing those people to Smeagol, at first they're over-anticipated, than they hate it. I'm pretty sure that when the bugs got fixed, new content got added and it is overall more polished, the Smeagols will return, and live happily ever after.
Are you saying that they cut 4 cities and 4 classes because of client performance reasons?
From the reports from beta, I think there is valid concern: "Very disappointed to found out this game isnt a real open world. While there is little or no noticable loading times between zones you cannot move around freely in the world, you cannot travel to or explore around 60% of the games world map. You have no real sence of your location in the world, you might know where you are but it all feels closed up and fake. All 3 starting areas are closed off from each other, you cant run from say empire land to dwarf land, you have to take a flightmaster ride and zone there, which has a short load screen. There is no wilderness to explore, almost everything and everywhere has a road running through it.
You cant even jump into the water from the harbor in Altdorf, an invisible wall blocks you off from having a swim, im sure many of you have seen the capital cities vid that shows the harbor, when i first saw that vid i thought "great! theres ships! i wonder where they would take you!" they dont take you anywhere there all static and just part of the scenery. theres even 1 ship thats a little further away from the pier like its already set sail, but it doesnt even move, its like staring at a screenshot of a ship that just set sail. All those buildings and structures you can see in that vid on the other side of the river is just a backdrop, you cant go there. Fair enough if that was the edge of the world map... but it isnt! Just imagine the games world is like planet earth but your travel is restricted to only 3 countries say usa, brazil and spain, you can fly between those 3 countries and move around semi-freely in them but you can never travel anywhere else in the world, you cant travel the world or take a holiday and explore/adventure anywhere else.
unless they make some drastic changes weve got yet another un-immersive world to play around in."
like any game its Not for Everyone, But Then 'Everyone' is a Pretty Unrealistic Demographic.
If people want open world - explore vast open (empty) spaces - try Vanguard.
War is focused on War - having vast open areas to explore takes away from that. If you have to spend 3 hours travelling to get from empire to dwarves to help friends - it takes away from that.
I dont see the lack as an issue. And I also understand how people who want that will see it as an issue - well guess what - its not the game they are looking for.
More like 30. Though, that might've been the total number when everything's said and done, not at launch - but I was pretty sure there's 30 at launch.
Ah, i thought it was like 1 per tier or 1 per campaign, or 1 per tier per campaign. I don't honestly know, i wish i did, i hate being so vague when referencing them =/
Originally posted by smitty0356 Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish. Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
The big difference between WAR and AOC is - in AOC beta they only got to test the first 20 levels. So 1/4 of the content.
I agree somewhat with the original poster. I think definitly EA-Mythic is having some troubles to make such decision. In addition, I think this will end up hurting the game more than at the end
From the reports from beta, I think there is valid concern:
"Very disappointed to found out this game isnt a real open world. While there is little or no noticable loading times between zones you cannot move around freely in the world, you cannot travel to or explore around 60% of the games world map. You have no real sence of your location in the world, you might know where you are but it all feels closed up and fake. All 3 starting areas are closed off from each other, you cant run from say empire land to dwarf land, you have to take a flightmaster ride and zone there, which has a short load screen. There is no wilderness to explore, almost everything and everywhere has a road running through it.
You cant even jump into the water from the harbor in Altdorf, an invisible wall blocks you off from having a swim, im sure many of you have seen the capital cities vid that shows the harbor, when i first saw that vid i thought "great! theres ships! i wonder where they would take you!" they dont take you anywhere there all static and just part of the scenery. theres even 1 ship thats a little further away from the pier like its already set sail, but it doesnt even move, its like staring at a screenshot of a ship that just set sail. All those buildings and structures you can see in that vid on the other side of the river is just a backdrop, you cant go there. Fair enough if that was the edge of the world map... but it isnt! Just imagine the games world is like planet earth but your travel is restricted to only 3 countries say usa, brazil and spain, you can fly between those 3 countries and move around semi-freely in them but you can never travel anywhere else in the world, you cant travel the world or take a holiday and explore/adventure anywhere else. unless they make some drastic changes weve got yet another un-immersive world to play around in."
like any game its Not for Everyone, But Then 'Everyone' is a Pretty Unrealistic Demographic.
If people want open world - explore vast open (empty) spaces - try Vanguard.
War is focused on War - having vast open areas to explore takes away from that. If you have to spend 3 hours travelling to get from empire to dwarves to help friends - it takes away from that.
I dont see the lack as an issue. And I also understand how people who want that will see it as an issue - well guess what - its not the game they are looking for.
remeber that statement saying we are making it as a game not a world. You beta tester knew a long time ago this game wasnt for you with that statement, this is not the world to be "MY GOD I AM THE DUMB ASS ORC KILLING PEOPLE" this is a game with "KILL.........KILL....KILLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I agree somewhat with the original poster. I think definitly EA-Mythic is having some troubles to make such decision. In addition, I think this will end up hurting the game more than at the end
Why? You are getting all your features, just a little content is being delayed until later. You're eventually going to get everything.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I agree somewhat with the original poster. I think definitly EA-Mythic is having some troubles to make such decision. In addition, I think this will end up hurting the game more than at the end
Why? You are getting all your features, just a little content is being delayed until later. You're eventually going to get everything.
following logic it would hurt the start but pay off in the end.
The removal of certain content isn't the end of the world on it's own. I mean it can always be added later. The problem I see is perception. Because Mythic has now come out and said they are basically delaying or removing content to make a polished game, they have essentially raised the stakes on their own.
The pressure for a near perfect game was already on WAR and now it seems it must have an almost flawless launch. I mean it's going to have to be silky smooth or the naysayers will attack it mercilessly. And with AoC not really meeting expectations, added burden falls on WAR. I do not envy Mythic's position right now.
I think that's why MMO devs should stop with the promises until they are absolutely sure the content will be available at launch. Otherwise, they should stay silent. I think Jack Emmert of Cryptic said that from his experiences with CoH. So, if you look at Champions Online, they won't reveal anything until it is completely in the game. It's a smart move.
The other side observation I see is: MMO companies really need to hire better management teams. Seriously. They must have horrible project managers because it seems like every MMO that's coming out in recent years either run out of money, make promises they can't keep or are unable to make reasonable deadlines.
The removal of certain content isn't the end of the world on it's own. I mean it can always be added later. The problem I see is perception. Because Mythic has now come out and said they are basically delaying or removing content to make a polished game, they have essentially raised the stakes on their own. The pressure for a near perfect game was already on WAR and now it seems it must have an almost flawless launch. I mean it's going to have to be silky smooth or the naysayers will attack it mercilessly. And with AoC not really meeting expectations, added burden falls on WAR. I do not envy Mythic's position right now. I think that's why MMO devs should stop with the promises until they are absolutely sure the content will be available at launch. Otherwise, they should stay silent. I think Jack Emmert of Cryptic said that from his experiences with CoH. So, if you look at Champions Online, they won't reveal anything until it is completely in the game. It's a smart move. The other side observation I see is: MMO companies really need to hire better management teams. Seriously. They must have horrible project managers because it seems like every MMO that's coming out in recent years either run out of money, make promises they can't keep or are unable to make reasonable deadlines.
Eh...atleast they told us what's up. They have my respecy for sure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The company cuts content to the bone, AND changes it's name and structure 4 Classes are going on "hold" indefinately, which if that is anything like a beta invite, it could be years. Capitol cities are cut... Balance is out the window.... now no one will want to be any race but chaos, since they get a capitol city AND all of their classes Promises of beta contests and giveaways have all been BS, with no winners named or end in sight. Pre-orders nation-wide are being mis-handled and people are not getting their codes, and never will due to misunderstandings with the distributors. Is this game in a complete meltdown? I really don't know how they will release a balanced and functional game with so many necessary classes missing. Ebay is selling preorders for a ton from people who were scammed by bestbuy or gamestop... all of this slop makes me think the launch will be a disaster!! Reminds me of Vanguard.
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
The company cuts content to the bone, AND changes it's name and structure 4 Classes are going on "hold" indefinately, which if that is anything like a beta invite, it could be years. Capitol cities are cut... Balance is out the window.... now no one will want to be any race but chaos, since they get a capitol city AND all of their classes Promises of beta contests and giveaways have all been BS, with no winners named or end in sight. Pre-orders nation-wide are being mis-handled and people are not getting their codes, and never will due to misunderstandings with the distributors. Is this game in a complete meltdown? I really don't know how they will release a balanced and functional game with so many necessary classes missing. Ebay is selling preorders for a ton from people who were scammed by bestbuy or gamestop... all of this slop makes me think the launch will be a disaster!! Reminds me of Vanguard.
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
It is harder to balance what one side lacks while the other has from a PVP perspective. Blizzard tried their best but pretty much threw in the towel with their recent expansion.
Another example of this is the PVP in CoX where the villain side lacks empathy and as a result the heroes have an edge over the villains who have thermal but which is similar to empathy but not the same.
Comments
Yes, but how do you know that many people will play one faction? That is pure speculation, and there is no way to support it will happen one way or the other.
Sure the hardcore audience, who go to forums, and support the game by going to conventions, are following destruction mainly, but what about the casual crowd? You have no idea what their consensus will be, and the hardcore demographic makes up very little of the game's overall population.
Mythic designed a game with THREE sides, Dark Age of Camelot, and there were no significant balance issues. They know what they are doing.
The argument was about *overpopulation*. If you're not gonna stick to that just don't comment.
As for Mythic designing Daoc before... this is WAR. Imbalance in Daoc did very little to nothing apart from shift a relic once in a while and open a dungeon every now and then.
War is a clear cut "Tug of war" between 2 sides. A tug of war *fails* if one side is clearly stronger than the other, end of line, period. This isn't Daoc, it's WAR. If you can't overcome the other side in this game you don't just have the ability to ignore it and just be out a few percentages of strength due to lost relics, no you'll not see half the game nor get to experience the best parts of it safe for the defending part.
WAR is *not* Daoc and the same thing would never work in WAR.
So if the server SOFT cap fails you give the underdogs buffs to even the playing field. But then you go on Destruction and complain that you lose all the time because Order is way too powerful, even though you outnumber him 5 to 1.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
More like 30. Though, that might've been the total number when everything's said and done, not at launch - but I was pretty sure there's 30 at launch.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Yes, but how do you know that many people will play one faction? That is pure speculation, and there is no way to support it will happen one way or the other.
Sure the hardcore audience, who go to forums, and support the game by going to conventions, are following destruction mainly, but what about the casual crowd? You have no idea what their consensus will be, and the hardcore demographic makes up very little of the game's overall population.
Mythic designed a game with THREE sides, Dark Age of Camelot, and there were no significant balance issues. They know what they are doing.
The argument was about *overpopulation*. If you're not gonna stick to that just don't comment.
As for Mythic designing Daoc before... this is WAR. Imbalance in Daoc did very little to nothing apart from shift a relic once in a while and open a dungeon every now and then.
War is a clear cut "Tug of war" between 2 sides. A tug of war *fails* if one side is clearly stronger than the other, end of line, period. This isn't Daoc, it's WAR. If you can't overcome the other side in this game you don't just have the ability to ignore it and just be out a few percentages of strength due to lost relics, no you'll not see half the game nor get to experience the best parts of it safe for the defending part.
WAR is *not* Daoc and the same thing would never work in WAR.
So if the server SOFT cap fails you give the underdogs buffs to even the playing field. But then you go on Destruction and complain that you lose all the time because Order is way too powerful, even though you outnumber him 5 to 1.
The last thing i'd want is for a group of 5 or so to easily beat my group simply because they happened to have picked the less populated side. That's just ludicrous.
I am sorry for you man.
Lets just hope that with this news all WoW kids keep away from WAR
hehe...I think this is the -best- change Mythic could have made for the community
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Hehe, this "oh mythic make the game look bad so that WoW kids dont come to WAR" argument always makes me LOL. You guys really think that Mythic would do anything that would drive away WoW players?
Generally speaking, if a game is going to cut it's core content and has to release a statement as to why, they have cut many things that are less obvious in secret. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I wouldn't expect much high level zone polish.
Just like AOC it started out great, then players got to the zones that weren't up to par, and they realized that the content cuts were just the tip of the iceberg.
Elite poster by 82
I dunno man....the testers have been able to go through that content I believe and I've yet to hear about anything lacking. There are always leaks, its not even hard to find them. Most importantly, the NDA will be dropped long before release...so its not something we will have to speculate over before buying. In fact, the very fact that the NDA IS going to drop so early is a good sign that the polish is probably spot on.
Otherwise, they would pull teh same move as Funcom and keep people restricted to low level zones until release. I KNEW what was going on when they did that. WAR is being very open about all aspects of their game thus far...while I'd never expect a "holy grail", I do think it speaks volumes for their game.
Heres a 3 page statement why in this link http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/239/feature/2041
They have cut many things that are less obvious in secret.
Really ... like what? If they cut "many things" less obvious in secret... then how do you know about these "cuts"?
Oh your assuming... its ok buddy, the game will be great
you know whats sad about this post ?
100's hell 1000's of people will be backing this statement up over the next few weeks .
with out going to far into it , only a small minority of the beta testers ( they are refered to as elders ) will ever see the true end game content . not untill after release will every one know what we get to see / test . as cool as that may be for us , it's going to suck seeing 5000000000000000 posts like this every day and have to keep our mouths shut .
It isn't WAR's fault, they had a great concept, but unfortunately, it's the concept that they gave to the people. Now that they're working out the concept, they realize that they were too ambitious. Low-End/Mid-Range PC's wouldn't be able to handle it.
Wait till the Beta, another shitload of idiots, who just want to test the game for themselves, rather than helping Mythic/WAR fixing bugs. After that we'll see the same posts as a few weeks ago, "they betrayed us" "no they wouldn't" "my precious". Yes, I can comparing those people to Smeagol, at first they're over-anticipated, than they hate it. I'm pretty sure that when the bugs got fixed, new content got added and it is overall more polished, the Smeagols will return, and live happily ever after.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
I think agentsmith sums it up best with:
"I will admit to not following development of this game much at all, until recently as I have a friend very anxious for it to come out. But as I see the boards here and elsewhere lighting up in the wake of the news about the content/feature cuts I see something not being discussed.
What does this say for the whole of the game in terms of where it is developmentally?
It seems to me the big story is not that this stuff is being cut but that the game is so underdeveloped at this point that it hasn't already had them done and undergoing polish and balancing preparing for release. And what about the stuff that makes it in, are we to believe they are polished and balanced to any reasonable degree given that they where implemented and developed with these other features planned but never implemented?
It seems to me this is a much more serious indicator of a game headed for trouble than the loss of a bit of content and features would indicate."
From the reports from beta, I think there is valid concern:
"Very disappointed to found out this game isnt a real open world. While there is little or no noticable loading times between zones you cannot move around freely in the world, you cannot travel to or explore around 60% of the games world map. You have no real sence of your location in the world, you might know where you are but it all feels closed up and fake. All 3 starting areas are closed off from each other, you cant run from say empire land to dwarf land, you have to take a flightmaster ride and zone there, which has a short load screen. There is no wilderness to explore, almost everything and everywhere has a road running through it.
You cant even jump into the water from the harbor in Altdorf, an invisible wall blocks you off from having a swim, im sure many of you have seen the capital cities vid that shows the harbor, when i first saw that vid i thought "great! theres ships! i wonder where they would take you!" they dont take you anywhere there all static and just part of the scenery. theres even 1 ship thats a little further away from the pier like its already set sail, but it doesnt even move, its like staring at a screenshot of a ship that just set sail. All those buildings and structures you can see in that vid on the other side of the river is just a backdrop, you cant go there. Fair enough if that was the edge of the world map... but it isnt! Just imagine the games world is like planet earth but your travel is restricted to only 3 countries say usa, brazil and spain, you can fly between those 3 countries and move around semi-freely in them but you can never travel anywhere else in the world, you cant travel the world or take a holiday and explore/adventure anywhere else.
unless they make some drastic changes weve got yet another un-immersive world to play around in."
Elite poster by 82
Are you saying that they cut 4 cities and 4 classes because of client performance reasons?
like any game its Not for Everyone, But Then 'Everyone' is a Pretty Unrealistic Demographic.
If people want open world - explore vast open (empty) spaces - try Vanguard.
War is focused on War - having vast open areas to explore takes away from that. If you have to spend 3 hours travelling to get from empire to dwarves to help friends - it takes away from that.
I dont see the lack as an issue. And I also understand how people who want that will see it as an issue - well guess what - its not the game they are looking for.
More like 30. Though, that might've been the total number when everything's said and done, not at launch - but I was pretty sure there's 30 at launch.
Ah, i thought it was like 1 per tier or 1 per campaign, or 1 per tier per campaign. I don't honestly know, i wish i did, i hate being so vague when referencing them =/
The big difference between WAR and AOC is - in AOC beta they only got to test the first 20 levels. So 1/4 of the content.
In WAR they are testing everything.
I agree somewhat with the original poster. I think definitly EA-Mythic is having some troubles to make such decision. In addition, I think this will end up hurting the game more than at the end
like any game its Not for Everyone, But Then 'Everyone' is a Pretty Unrealistic Demographic.
If people want open world - explore vast open (empty) spaces - try Vanguard.
War is focused on War - having vast open areas to explore takes away from that. If you have to spend 3 hours travelling to get from empire to dwarves to help friends - it takes away from that.
I dont see the lack as an issue. And I also understand how people who want that will see it as an issue - well guess what - its not the game they are looking for.
remeber that statement saying we are making it as a game not a world. You beta tester knew a long time ago this game wasnt for you with that statement, this is not the world to be "MY GOD I AM THE DUMB ASS ORC KILLING PEOPLE" this is a game with "KILL.........KILL....KILLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Why? You are getting all your features, just a little content is being delayed until later. You're eventually going to get everything.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Why? You are getting all your features, just a little content is being delayed until later. You're eventually going to get everything.
following logic it would hurt the start but pay off in the end.
The removal of certain content isn't the end of the world on it's own. I mean it can always be added later. The problem I see is perception. Because Mythic has now come out and said they are basically delaying or removing content to make a polished game, they have essentially raised the stakes on their own.
The pressure for a near perfect game was already on WAR and now it seems it must have an almost flawless launch. I mean it's going to have to be silky smooth or the naysayers will attack it mercilessly. And with AoC not really meeting expectations, added burden falls on WAR. I do not envy Mythic's position right now.
I think that's why MMO devs should stop with the promises until they are absolutely sure the content will be available at launch. Otherwise, they should stay silent. I think Jack Emmert of Cryptic said that from his experiences with CoH. So, if you look at Champions Online, they won't reveal anything until it is completely in the game. It's a smart move.
The other side observation I see is: MMO companies really need to hire better management teams. Seriously. They must have horrible project managers because it seems like every MMO that's coming out in recent years either run out of money, make promises they can't keep or are unable to make reasonable deadlines.
Eh...atleast they told us what's up. They have my respecy for sure.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
It is harder to balance what one side lacks while the other has from a PVP perspective. Blizzard tried their best but pretty much threw in the towel with their recent expansion.
Another example of this is the PVP in CoX where the villain side lacks empathy and as a result the heroes have an edge over the villains who have thermal but which is similar to empathy but not the same.