The company cuts content to the bone, AND changes it's name and structure 4 Classes are going on "hold" indefinately, which if that is anything like a beta invite, it could be years. Capitol cities are cut... Balance is out the window.... now no one will want to be any race but chaos, since they get a capitol city AND all of their classes Promises of beta contests and giveaways have all been BS, with no winners named or end in sight. Pre-orders nation-wide are being mis-handled and people are not getting their codes, and never will due to misunderstandings with the distributors. Is this game in a complete meltdown? I really don't know how they will release a balanced and functional game with so many necessary classes missing. Ebay is selling preorders for a ton from people who were scammed by bestbuy or gamestop... all of this slop makes me think the launch will be a disaster!! Reminds me of Vanguard.
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
It is harder to balance what one side lacks while the other has from a PVP perspective. Blizzard tried their best but pretty much threw in the towel with their recent expansion.
Another example of this is the PVP in CoX where the villain side lacks empathy and as a result the heroes have an edge over the villains who have thermal but which is similar to empathy but not the same.
Yep i agree! I hope, as a pvp game , they gear these differences for (rvr) PVP.. guess time will tell. I might just give WAR 6 months before i play. Seriously. I did this with lotrO after a year, and i may try with aoc. Give these people time to work! We are like kids at a ice cream truck with new games....
Cabe2323 a beta is not meant for the type of changes that have been announced. These type of changes this late in the development is a signifier that something is extremly wrong on many levels.Again this is the common argument about a game ready to be released into the dumpster and it's a foolish, clueless argument.
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
Cabe2323 a beta is not meant for the type of changes that have been announced. These type of changes this late in the development is a signifier that something is extremly wrong on many levels.Again this is the common argument about a game ready to be released into the dumpster and it's a foolish, clueless argument.
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
oh god throwing random numbers now again are we?Ok look just because it didnt follow the production time lime doesnt mean anything. What your telling me is that on certain stages certain things can happen, but last i checked some of these never made it out of internal testing, thats right no one had them, beta testers didnt have them. So whats the loss.
It sounds to be you feel that this cut prty much the end of the game when really this stuff (Cept for the classes)
Look i really dont care to argue, people say the game is fun, and your just out to make the game feel like such horrid because of this cut, when all i hear is fun, when you really sit down and think of what is cut, and think about what is still in the game mechanics and content wise, you relise this cut isnt huge, this cut is the eng game, to put it in wow Terms, its if ya have MC,BWL,AQ40 and you take out the last 2, so instead of having all 3 at launch you just have MC........WoW ................1 end game dungeon that its gonna take awhile to beat.............damn shame, because even if they had BWL or Ony in at launch you would be RIGHT THERE RIGHT!
Meh just dont play the game if you think the devlopment cycle is crap or w/e , from what i have heard and seen it looks great, il stick to my guns and see in open beta and if i have fun......well that means i win
The company cuts content to the bone, AND changes it's name and structure The bone? They removed hardly anything, there are still 20/24 classes. lol we will see. 4 Classes are going on "hold" indefinately, which if that is anything like a beta invite, it could be years. The classes were removed to provide balance, and better game play! removed due to time and money (EA) Capitol cities are cut... There are still Capital, just not as many. And again, this is improve game play. immersion breaking. the dwarves are homeless?! Balance is out the window.... now no one will want to be any race but chaos, since they get a capitol city AND all of their classes I dont know what your smoking, but I want some. Chaos lost 2 classes, and 2 capitals. Order lost 2 classes, and 2 capitals. Theyre equal. remains to be seen. Promises of beta contests and giveaways have all been BS, with no winners named or end in sight. My buddy won one last month. The guild beta let hundreds in this week. Open beta should be next month or so. why haven't they announced the winners? fishy. Pre-orders nation-wide are being mis-handled and people are not getting their codes, and never will due to misunderstandings with the distributors. Mythic isnt in charge of distribution. This is a problem with places like Gamestop and Best Buy
but they are in charge of the game. all pre-orders mishandled? funny coincidence. Is this game in a complete meltdown? I really don't know how they will release a balanced and functional game with so many necessary classes missing. Ebay is selling preorders for a ton from people who were scammed by bestbuy or gamestop... all of this slop makes me think the launch will be a disaster!! Reminds me of Vanguard. even i will say this isn't as bad as vancrap but they are on the slippery soe slope.
<krytenedit>
LOLOLOL - so clueless its funny. Kryten you really should look up information before spouting rubbish like that - good laugh though thanks..
Yes because if there are 3 stages to production and it goes back to the beginning of the 2nd stage that would make 2/3 a random number. I agree that the production time doesn't really mean anything, but you totally miss the point. The game isn't even ready to be in beta. They are piecing together a game; what are the chances that's going to work out well? I don't care if people play it or not. All I'm saying is don't ignore the patterns the game is following and jump in with both feet. The concerns people have are legitimate.
Yes because if there are 3 stages to production and it goes back to the beginning of the 2nd stage that would make 2/3 a random number. I agree that the production time doesn't really mean anything, but you totally miss the point. The game isn't even ready to be in beta. They are piecing together a game; what are the chances that's going to work out well? I don't care if people play it or not. All I'm saying is don't ignore the patterns the game is following and jump in with both feet. The concerns people have are legitimate.
are you in beta?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The WARHAMMER IP is so expansive. There is so much content to be drawn from it...How and/or why should we expect it to be "complete' at launch? Its in the nature of any respectable MMO to NEVER be complete until its offline. Patches and expansion packs will be made, so just chill.
The WARHAMMER IP is so expansive. There is so much content to be drawn from it...How and/or why should we expect it to be "complete' at launch? Its in the nature of any respectable MMO to NEVER be complete until its offline. Patches and expansion packs will be made, so just chill.
The WARHAMMER IP is so expansive. There is so much content to be drawn from it...How and/or why should we expect it to be "complete' at launch? Its in the nature of any respectable MMO to NEVER be complete until its offline. Patches and expansion packs will be made, so just chill.
Well said I was just about to post the same sentiment the whole point of an MMO is it never ends even with "End Game" content.
Cabe2323 a beta is not meant for the type of changes that have been announced. These type of changes this late in the development is a signifier that something is extremly wrong on many levels.Again this is the common argument about a game ready to be released into the dumpster and it's a foolish, clueless argument.
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
Yes because if there are 3 stages to production and it goes back to the beginning of the 2nd stage that would make 2/3 a random number. I agree that the production time doesn't really mean anything, but you totally miss the point. The game isn't even ready to be in beta. They are piecing together a game; what are the chances that's going to work out well? I don't care if people play it or not. All I'm saying is don't ignore the patterns the game is following and jump in with both feet. The concerns people have are legitimate.
are you in beta?
Given the conversation what does that have to do with anything? If the game is making changes that should of been solid in Alpha...it's not ready for beta. 3 doesn't become before 2. I don't need to listen to someone count to know that.
Yes because if there are 3 stages to production and it goes back to the beginning of the 2nd stage that would make 2/3 a random number. I agree that the production time doesn't really mean anything, but you totally miss the point. The game isn't even ready to be in beta. They are piecing together a game; what are the chances that's going to work out well? I don't care if people play it or not. All I'm saying is don't ignore the patterns the game is following and jump in with both feet. The concerns people have are legitimate.
are you in beta?
Given the conversation what does that have to do with anything? If the game is making changes that should of been solid in Alpha...it's not ready for beta. 3 doesn't become before 2. I don't need to listen to someone count to know that.
Sorry a wiki link pretty much doesn't help your case at all especially when it comes to game design. Take a couple of courses and learn to make a game..come back and tell me again that Alpha is when things are final and I'll STILL damn laugh at you. MMOS are techincally NEVER finished thats why they're an Online Game with labels of "content may change during gameplay" on the box for every single one. Even for Single Player offline games alot of things can change the only difference is players aren't needed for testing Single Player games so we never KNOW of the changes. With MMOs the community is heavily involved with the Beta Stages thus things the Dev's thought were cool are NOT necessarily cool with the players.
Like the decision for keeps. Originally Keeps were NOT part of the plan. THey were Fubaring open world PvP completely except for end game. After the Beta Testers got a hold of this ... well thank god for those early testers. The Dev's went back to the drawing board on Open RvR & Keeps and guess what? Now we have Keeps & Fortresses in Open RvR areas to fight over.
Thats the thing about Games...games start on paper...once they hit production things that sounded great on paper aren't so great or don't work at all so guess what..it gets redesigned. Sometimes you can get past the alpha stage and something still just doesn't work the way you want it too or tester feed back is that its completely boring and the general concensus is "its a sucky unnnecessary feature" or its "subpar" to the rest of the game..guess what..it comes out. Some companies dont' give a damn what testers say other than bug reports so sucky ass features & content tend to stay in the game. These games get labeled crap in the end by the gaming community.
Beta is still a heavy production & continuing design phase especially for MMOs. MMOs have no final design phase, thats the beauty of online games you can keep designing and adding new ro better things or new places or new items. You can't do that with a static game, maybe you can toss in an add on or two but its not the same as an MMO expansion.
Even WoW did a 180 between its Alpha & Beta stages. Originally it was supposed to be a story based online game they were only going to run for 2 years. Well the overwhelming numbers of players once it went live pretty much changed that. What would of been a 2 year long storyline kinda like Lord of the Rings but with an ending..became a constant permant world. That was NOT part of the alpha design at all.
Game Developers that can't be flexible & fast on their feet to make a changes for the better (sometimes the worst in our opinion) isn't going to be in the industry for long. If Beta testers say something sucks wind for 2 years and the devs ignore it because its not Alpha anymore...well...go ask the AoC people who are angry right now...how that worked out for them.
I used wiki because it was the easiest to access on the web. Did you actualy read it or just scoffing at the source? It is very consistent with other sources and provide sources in which the information was derived from. I also can provide other sources with the same information. While certainly changes are going to be made during beta these are extreme changes for a game in beta with a 4 moth release date. I'm going to mark this and when WAR come out with a thud show how foolish you were. this game is either getting pushed back another year or going to be underwelming (like AOC) and I can predict that, like I have other games, based upon the changes they are doing in beta.
Couldn't agree more. Sum it up in one line : It might look great on paper, but when it's in the game it might not work as intended.
That said, nothing drastic has changed. The classes weren't a drastic change, neither were the cities. A loss, yes, and it sucks, but it's not that drastic.
I read the wiki, and like I said, it's obviously what people think. You avoided the beta question you was asked earlier, saying it has nothing to do with it. It does. If you've been through betas, you'd know what is stated in that wiki is complete BS. It's wrong about alpha and beta.
And when you have a game that has been in closed beta as long as WAR has, things are bound to change. Closed beta is meant for drastic changes like that. Granted, I'll give you nothing major should change in open beta. Open beta is the bug squashing stage, CB is still getting features in and tweaking them.
I have played Muds as long as you have been alive and know I have experinced more beta's then you. I can tell you with certainty, that the games that more closely follow the model given are more successful.
I used wiki because it was the easiest to access on the web. Did you actually read it or just scoffing at the source? It is very consistent with other sources and provide sources in which the information was derived from. I also can provide other sources with the same information. While certainly changes are going to be made during beta these are extreme changes for a game in beta with a 4 moth release date. I'm going to mark this and when WAR come out with a thud show how foolish you were. this game is either getting pushed back another year or going to be underwelming (like AOC) and I can predict that, like I have other games, based upon the changes they are doing in beta.
Though I do not work for a gaming company I have worked in the software industry for over 10 years for several large companies that have gaming divisions. But no two companies apply the development process the same. MMO's are fluid by design and I would imagine the game will change about 80% after the first 6 month's live being fluid they are going to have to adapt it based on live customer feed back but nothing will be fixed overnight. No MMO is ever finished keep in mind also Gameworkshop holds a tight nose on it's IP and they have high standards to be held and if they are not met then the IP could be at risk ultimately I think that the new system of rotations is a smart move and all this content will be back in game with in the 6 to 12 months
Still missing my other point, nothing drastic has changed. So, they cut 4 classes? Not a huge deal, people will either find another class or wait for new classes. The cities are a bigger deal, but they're coming in after launch, we're not losing the contact, it's just compacted into two cities instead of six.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
I used wiki because it was the easiest to access on the web. Did you actually read it or just scoffing at the source? It is very consistent with other sources and provide sources in which the information was derived from. I also can provide other sources with the same information. While certainly changes are going to be made during beta these are extreme changes for a game in beta with a 4 moth release date. I'm going to mark this and when WAR come out with a thud show how foolish you were. this game is either getting pushed back another year or going to be underwelming (like AOC) and I can predict that, like I have other games, based upon the changes they are doing in beta.
Though I do not work for a gaming company I have worked in the software industry for over 10 years for several large companies that have gaming divisions. But no two companies apply the development process the same. MMO's are fluid by design and I would imagine the game will change about 80% after the first 6 month's live being fluid they are going to have to adapt it based on live customer feed back but nothing will be fixed overnight. No MMO is ever finished keep in mind also Gameworkshop holds a tight nose on it's IP and they have high standards to be held and if they are not met then the IP could be at risk ultimately I think that the new system of rotations is a smart move and all this content will be back in game with in the 6 to 12 months
I'm not saying that this is a carved in stone. I certainly realise that there is flexability. I;m saying what the point of these stages are. You have to take into consideration my original post was into response to someoen who said alpha was nothing more then a paper stage. That being said the increasing flexability of these stages haven't seem to help MMO developers. The point is, however, that the games who have made huge cuts right before release to squeeze in a dead line or didn't realise that content shouldn't of ever been included...haven't had good track records thus far.
Still missing my other point, nothing drastic has changed. So, they cut 4 classes? Not a huge deal, people will either find another class or wait for new classes. The cities are a bigger deal, but they're coming in after launch, we're not losing the contact, it's just compacted into two cities instead of six.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
From a PVP perspective some MMORPG's are dominated by melees while others are dominated by ranged avatars.
WAR seems to lean too much in favor of ranged currently but to early to say.
Still missing my other point, nothing drastic has changed. So, they cut 4 classes? Not a huge deal, people will either find another class or wait for new classes. The cities are a bigger deal, but they're coming in after launch, we're not losing the contact, it's just compacted into two cities instead of six.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
From a PVP perspective some MMORPG's are dominated by melees while others are dominated by ranged avatars.
WAR seems to lean too much in favor of ranged currently but to early to say.
maybe at the beginning, but they will eventually add 4 careers back in, whether they be the same ones or totally new ones.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Still missing my other point, nothing drastic has changed. So, they cut 4 classes? Not a huge deal, people will either find another class or wait for new classes. The cities are a bigger deal, but they're coming in after launch, we're not losing the contact, it's just compacted into two cities instead of six.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
Shows my inexperience? I don't have any experience with WAR, I'm not in WAR beta. But you don't realize the ones complaining that 4 classes being removed being such a drastic change are a small minority.
They won;t be missing an important element. If anything this encourages teams to take in other classes, instead of a constant tank and spank method. If they want a tank, they'll find another tank. It's not a drastic change, from my viewpoint. Will it change things? Sure. But it's not going to make or break the game. And if the classes are as underplayed as Mythic says they are, then it's going to effect it even less.
we will see a couple months after it release...like I said I bookmarked this thread adn I'll point out what you and bas had to say.
I have made my point and pretty sure that'll i'll be proven right. I usually hav a pretty open mind towards games but when I noticed these trends I have had avery good track record thus far of calling it when a game is in trouble..
Comments
This thred is stupid. The OP is an idot. Pretty much everything he said is wrong.
Bolth sides are equal. BOLTH sides lost 1 tank an 1 dps. Each side has a capitol city.
Who cares if they WENT BACK to thier original name. I was never fond of the EA addon to the name anyways.
If gamestop or another store mess crap up.. thats thier bad, not mythics.
Sometimes i wonder if balance is the right thing for a game? What is wrong with one "side" having someting the "other side" does not have? Meaning , do i want my team the same as yours? Only if it is going make me win? Therefore we all want balance but cannot have it... how a game distributes it is up for grabs. But i can be sure that i dont want my char on my side the same as any on the "other" side.
If "They" can balance "sides"as in giving DIFFERENT abilities to all sides, i BET you would have a tough ass game in pvp.
It is harder to balance what one side lacks while the other has from a PVP perspective. Blizzard tried their best but pretty much threw in the towel with their recent expansion.
Another example of this is the PVP in CoX where the villain side lacks empathy and as a result the heroes have an edge over the villains who have thermal but which is similar to empathy but not the same.
Yep i agree! I hope, as a pvp game , they gear these differences for (rvr) PVP.. guess time will tell. I might just give WAR 6 months before i play. Seriously. I did this with lotrO after a year, and i may try with aoc. Give these people time to work! We are like kids at a ice cream truck with new games....
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage#Pre-alpha
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage#Pre-alpha
oh god throwing random numbers now again are we?Ok look just because it didnt follow the production time lime doesnt mean anything. What your telling me is that on certain stages certain things can happen, but last i checked some of these never made it out of internal testing, thats right no one had them, beta testers didnt have them. So whats the loss.
It sounds to be you feel that this cut prty much the end of the game when really this stuff (Cept for the classes)
Look i really dont care to argue, people say the game is fun, and your just out to make the game feel like such horrid because of this cut, when all i hear is fun, when you really sit down and think of what is cut, and think about what is still in the game mechanics and content wise, you relise this cut isnt huge, this cut is the eng game, to put it in wow Terms, its if ya have MC,BWL,AQ40 and you take out the last 2, so instead of having all 3 at launch you just have MC........WoW ................1 end game dungeon that its gonna take awhile to beat.............damn shame, because even if they had BWL or Ony in at launch you would be RIGHT THERE RIGHT!
Meh just dont play the game if you think the devlopment cycle is crap or w/e , from what i have heard and seen it looks great, il stick to my guns and see in open beta and if i have fun......well that means i win
<krytenedit>
LOLOLOL - so clueless its funny. Kryten you really should look up information before spouting rubbish like that - good laugh though thanks..
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Yes because if there are 3 stages to production and it goes back to the beginning of the 2nd stage that would make 2/3 a random number. I agree that the production time doesn't really mean anything, but you totally miss the point. The game isn't even ready to be in beta. They are piecing together a game; what are the chances that's going to work out well? I don't care if people play it or not. All I'm saying is don't ignore the patterns the game is following and jump in with both feet. The concerns people have are legitimate.
are you in beta?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The WARHAMMER IP is so expansive. There is so much content to be drawn from it...How and/or why should we expect it to be "complete' at launch? Its in the nature of any respectable MMO to NEVER be complete until its offline. Patches and expansion packs will be made, so just chill.
agree
Well said I was just about to post the same sentiment the whole point of an MMO is it never ends even with "End Game" content.
Oh a Beta isn't meant for these types of changes huh? So what is, an Alpha? Haha, yeah, when everything's basically still on paper and it looks good. That's really the time to change it.
The paper stage is not the ALPHA. When the game is being conceptualized and the engine developed it's in pre-production or pre-ALPHA. The ALPHA is when a working code is being placed . The Alpha phase includes a lot of testing and after being decide that the game is COMPLETE it goes to beta. BETA is the stage of deveolpment when the usability testing is being done. The beta is used to test for malfunctions and balance. The beta is not where the game conception is supposed to be changed. If this is needed basically the game is set back 2/3 of its production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage#Pre-alpha
are you in beta?
Given the conversation what does that have to do with anything? If the game is making changes that should of been solid in Alpha...it's not ready for beta. 3 doesn't become before 2. I don't need to listen to someone count to know that.
are you in beta?
Given the conversation what does that have to do with anything? If the game is making changes that should of been solid in Alpha...it's not ready for beta. 3 doesn't become before 2. I don't need to listen to someone count to know that.
Sorry a wiki link pretty much doesn't help your case at all especially when it comes to game design. Take a couple of courses and learn to make a game..come back and tell me again that Alpha is when things are final and I'll STILL damn laugh at you. MMOS are techincally NEVER finished thats why they're an Online Game with labels of "content may change during gameplay" on the box for every single one. Even for Single Player offline games alot of things can change the only difference is players aren't needed for testing Single Player games so we never KNOW of the changes. With MMOs the community is heavily involved with the Beta Stages thus things the Dev's thought were cool are NOT necessarily cool with the players.
Like the decision for keeps. Originally Keeps were NOT part of the plan. THey were Fubaring open world PvP completely except for end game. After the Beta Testers got a hold of this ... well thank god for those early testers. The Dev's went back to the drawing board on Open RvR & Keeps and guess what? Now we have Keeps & Fortresses in Open RvR areas to fight over.
Thats the thing about Games...games start on paper...once they hit production things that sounded great on paper aren't so great or don't work at all so guess what..it gets redesigned. Sometimes you can get past the alpha stage and something still just doesn't work the way you want it too or tester feed back is that its completely boring and the general concensus is "its a sucky unnnecessary feature" or its "subpar" to the rest of the game..guess what..it comes out. Some companies dont' give a damn what testers say other than bug reports so sucky ass features & content tend to stay in the game. These games get labeled crap in the end by the gaming community.
Beta is still a heavy production & continuing design phase especially for MMOs. MMOs have no final design phase, thats the beauty of online games you can keep designing and adding new ro better things or new places or new items. You can't do that with a static game, maybe you can toss in an add on or two but its not the same as an MMO expansion.
Even WoW did a 180 between its Alpha & Beta stages. Originally it was supposed to be a story based online game they were only going to run for 2 years. Well the overwhelming numbers of players once it went live pretty much changed that. What would of been a 2 year long storyline kinda like Lord of the Rings but with an ending..became a constant permant world. That was NOT part of the alpha design at all.
Game Developers that can't be flexible & fast on their feet to make a changes for the better (sometimes the worst in our opinion) isn't going to be in the industry for long. If Beta testers say something sucks wind for 2 years and the devs ignore it because its not Alpha anymore...well...go ask the AoC people who are angry right now...how that worked out for them.
I used wiki because it was the easiest to access on the web. Did you actualy read it or just scoffing at the source? It is very consistent with other sources and provide sources in which the information was derived from. I also can provide other sources with the same information. While certainly changes are going to be made during beta these are extreme changes for a game in beta with a 4 moth release date. I'm going to mark this and when WAR come out with a thud show how foolish you were. this game is either getting pushed back another year or going to be underwelming (like AOC) and I can predict that, like I have other games, based upon the changes they are doing in beta.
I agree it is too close to release for drastic changes to be occuring unless they knew months in advance that this was the course to take.
Couldn't agree more. Sum it up in one line : It might look great on paper, but when it's in the game it might not work as intended.
That said, nothing drastic has changed. The classes weren't a drastic change, neither were the cities. A loss, yes, and it sucks, but it's not that drastic.
I read the wiki, and like I said, it's obviously what people think. You avoided the beta question you was asked earlier, saying it has nothing to do with it. It does. If you've been through betas, you'd know what is stated in that wiki is complete BS. It's wrong about alpha and beta.
And when you have a game that has been in closed beta as long as WAR has, things are bound to change. Closed beta is meant for drastic changes like that. Granted, I'll give you nothing major should change in open beta. Open beta is the bug squashing stage, CB is still getting features in and tweaking them.
I have played Muds as long as you have been alive and know I have experinced more beta's then you. I can tell you with certainty, that the games that more closely follow the model given are more successful.
Though I do not work for a gaming company I have worked in the software industry for over 10 years for several large companies that have gaming divisions. But no two companies apply the development process the same. MMO's are fluid by design and I would imagine the game will change about 80% after the first 6 month's live being fluid they are going to have to adapt it based on live customer feed back but nothing will be fixed overnight. No MMO is ever finished keep in mind also Gameworkshop holds a tight nose on it's IP and they have high standards to be held and if they are not met then the IP could be at risk ultimately I think that the new system of rotations is a smart move and all this content will be back in game with in the 6 to 12 months
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
Though I do not work for a gaming company I have worked in the software industry for over 10 years for several large companies that have gaming divisions. But no two companies apply the development process the same. MMO's are fluid by design and I would imagine the game will change about 80% after the first 6 month's live being fluid they are going to have to adapt it based on live customer feed back but nothing will be fixed overnight. No MMO is ever finished keep in mind also Gameworkshop holds a tight nose on it's IP and they have high standards to be held and if they are not met then the IP could be at risk ultimately I think that the new system of rotations is a smart move and all this content will be back in game with in the 6 to 12 months
I'm not saying that this is a carved in stone. I certainly realise that there is flexability. I;m saying what the point of these stages are. You have to take into consideration my original post was into response to someoen who said alpha was nothing more then a paper stage. That being said the increasing flexability of these stages haven't seem to help MMO developers. The point is, however, that the games who have made huge cuts right before release to squeeze in a dead line or didn't realise that content shouldn't of ever been included...haven't had good track records thus far.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
From a PVP perspective some MMORPG's are dominated by melees while others are dominated by ranged avatars.
WAR seems to lean too much in favor of ranged currently but to early to say.
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
From a PVP perspective some MMORPG's are dominated by melees while others are dominated by ranged avatars.
WAR seems to lean too much in favor of ranged currently but to early to say.
maybe at the beginning, but they will eventually add 4 careers back in, whether they be the same ones or totally new ones.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
This just shows your inexperience. Cutting 4 classes totally changes the dynamic of how the game plays. The game was designed with those classes in mind. As was all the content. Everytime you have a team now they will always be missing an important element.
Shows my inexperience? I don't have any experience with WAR, I'm not in WAR beta. But you don't realize the ones complaining that 4 classes being removed being such a drastic change are a small minority.
They won;t be missing an important element. If anything this encourages teams to take in other classes, instead of a constant tank and spank method. If they want a tank, they'll find another tank. It's not a drastic change, from my viewpoint. Will it change things? Sure. But it's not going to make or break the game. And if the classes are as underplayed as Mythic says they are, then it's going to effect it even less.
we will see a couple months after it release...like I said I bookmarked this thread adn I'll point out what you and bas had to say.
I have made my point and pretty sure that'll i'll be proven right. I usually hav a pretty open mind towards games but when I noticed these trends I have had avery good track record thus far of calling it when a game is in trouble..