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I'm too old for cartoons
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Realism IS in the mind of the beholder. Even if you search the internet the definition of realism is sketchy at best.
from Webster
Realism :
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You wouldn't understand
Just check one of my replies here and you will see examples of a realistic and most important beliveable fantasy creature, you will noticed the Dragon is totally different than most of Dragons concepts but still beliveable.
Really, if you cant see Warhammer orcs are cartoony and there are plenty of fantasy creatures expressed in a realistic view, I think you are just playing blind.
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So you think that the game isn;tgood enough when its bang on the look and art work from the table top game it takes its lore from?
Wow... can't this thread be closed... This is Warhammer Online, the MMORPG of Warhammer Fantasy Battleby Games Workshop and a game that recently had its 25th birthday
No I think the game is a perfect translation from the table top to the MMO.
Again, the fact Warhammer orcs ARE cartoony, from the original lore to the upcoming game is not equal the art of Warhammer is bad.
Im not against War art, I against the silly comment that a fantasy creature like an orc cant be beliveable.
Why this thread should be close? It is a pertinent discussion.
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believeable? like Lord of the Rings is believeable?
Allyour asking for is to get flamed by Warhammer fans... and theres more out therethan there are WoW players, or most of the MMO's out now actually... Games Workshop is thesinglelargest developer of Table Top roleplaying games and miniatures and even now owns the rights to the Lord of the Rings for the Table Top games
you have your opinion, but that opinion is destroyedby this imagary of an orc isonly superceded by some very old concepts done by Tolkein himself for the Orcs of LotR's... and asmentioned above, howdo you know how a creature that evolved from FUNGUS should look?
Locklain
You are confusing two things.
If you think Realism as an artistic movement you cant have fantasy creatures and creations among this concept
But if you think in beliveable artistic concept you can understand what is a beliveable fantasy creature.
From the romantism and beyond you will find unreal situations, landscapes and creatures expressed in a beliveable way in art.
The cartoony expression among pop art is not beliveable, this is what people are trying to express with the realistic or non realistic expression.
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You do realise it was not Tolkien who created orcs right?
The Tolkien version of Orc is very famous now, but it is not the origin of this creature.
Go back on time and show a Warhammer orc to someone that belived the mythology and just tell me if this orc is beliveable to this person and then show a picture of an Uruk took from the movies and tell me wich one this person that belives in this imaginary creature found more beliveable.
Why Im asking to be flamed by Wrhammer fans? Do you think warhammers fans will not be able to understand what is beliveable or not and will be offended by the fact War Orcs are Cartoony?
Do you think cartoony is equal to bad?
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So what you are looking for is something that more closely resembles the human race? That makes it more believable and more realistic? Now we are running into the Uncanny Valley theory. Show me a picture that you find "realistic" of an orc that is not a human with an under bite and big teeth. To me thats all the creature would be, a human with an under bite and big teeth.
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You wouldn't understand
Locklain
All orcs are humanoids, even the War orc is a very strong human with greenskin and huge teeth, orcs and goblins have human features in most lores.
I do prefer to change the word realism to beliveable ( as Im doing in all my replies here ).
I already posted a concept of a more beliveable orc here, you see that orc as just an humanoid creature with big teeth right? The same goes to War orc.
Just a side note, again, Im not telling cartoony is bad and warhammer orcs are ridiculous because they are cartoony.
I will give you a more pratical example, get the War orc and insert inside The Witcher and Age of Conan, both games have fantasy creatures, but you will notice War orcs will look totally cartoony...
But I agree these orcs totally matches the War game and lore.
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Ok, thank you that will do.
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You wouldn't understand
point is this thread has gone off the deep end.
In the end , OP doesnt like the direct of the Art
Fair enough so be it, if it bothers him to the point of not playing his loss.
I like it, so i will enjoy it, in the end who cares. Il have fun, and you wont because you are getting held up on minor things.
too true. to be on topic the OP thinks he is too old for cartoons. I don't think I'll ever be too old for cartoons because its just another medium of entertainment, just like I'll never be too old for CG movies and TV, or special effects.
I think non-cartoony looks terrible in a computer generated medium like an MMO, I think games like DAoC and AoC just look ugly because they don't have a style that compliments the medium they are working in, but thats just me and plenty of people do like how they look.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Im surprised that with the fifteen minutes you have to use the computer at the old folks home you dont look at bewbees.
Ok, I beleive you are clueless about the IP, mmos and what devs beleive adults want to play.
Too old for cartoons but your playing computer games... Huh?
Oxymoron much?
/coughEveOnline is....
<---------------That way
QFT. I actually think most people think that graphics are bad because the art is too bulky or too rought or w/e the point is no gaming company wants to have a game like AoC, a game with graphics so good the game has to be shrunk to actually be played. They have to make the game more instanced make it more painful. I choose gameplay over graphics anytime. I could even have ps1 graphics...well not really, only if it's REALLY good...I could have ps2 graphics and it could still be a great game...I've played beta and the game is 80% not cartoony, the other 20% is how big some people are, thats a good thing for having big armor and all but still...
Clearly you are not in beta. Clearly you are not aware of the recent graphic updates that have made WAR look like the best grapic MMO available, with the exception of VSoH on an amazing system. I wouldn't base your opinion on screenshots there were taken months ago while in beta testing lol.
But... but... it has to be able to run on my grandma's DELL from 1997! Or it's a ]-[aX0r game and SUx0R!
This is why WoW and WAR will be so popular. The stupid children who can't afford anything but to extremlly over weight and have shit computers. They are the ones who cry the loudest.
I'm 28 and love cartoons, but I must agree that it's 2008!!! And computers today can do Hollywood graphics on the fly. Why can't people stop being so fucking cheap and buy a nice computer and not 20 Big Macs a week.
The graphics look great and not everyone can have graphics like CoD4 or whatever but MMOs tend to have many people playing it and not all people are 50 year old married with children. If you think it is cartoony then why are you playing games in the first place? In my country most people didn't even play computer games and most of them were no older than 25...
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
I don't live in a 3rd world country.
I don't mind cartoons. But I understand that an MMORPG is suppose to reach out to a massive audience... but it's 2008 and computers are amazingly powerful and super cheap.
So why must the companies make it so the lowest mentally retarded child not even 15 years old will enjoy it?
What about the hard working person who can actually buy the finer things in life and have a computer that's a bit more powerful then a 6 year old cellphone.
Realism IS in the mind of the beholder. Even if you search the internet the definition of realism is sketchy at best.
from Webster
Realism :
You are the second person that replies to my posts in this thread and start a discussion about realism, when I never mentioned that word. Please re-read my post.
I don't live in a 3rd world country.
I don't mind cartoons. But I understand that an MMORPG is suppose to reach out to a massive audience... but it's 2008 and computers are amazingly powerful and super cheap.
So why must the companies make it so the lowest mentally retarded child not even 15 years old will enjoy it?
What about the hard working person who can actually buy the finer things in life and have a computer that's a bit more powerful then a 6 year old cellphone.
Computers are more powerful than they were in the past. They are still limited in what they can do. So they may impress you with their AMAZING POWER, they just arn't are up to everything you might feel is AMAZING even if the developers want to cater to your little desires. BTW, I think the devs prefer to focus on a wider range of target machines over the cutting edge systems.
I don't live in a 3rd world country.
I don't mind cartoons. But I understand that an MMORPG is suppose to reach out to a massive audience... but it's 2008 and computers are amazingly powerful and super cheap.
So why must the companies make it so the lowest mentally retarded child not even 15 years old will enjoy it?
What about the hard working person who can actually buy the finer things in life and have a computer that's a bit more powerful then a 6 year old cellphone.
Computers are more powerful than they were in the past. They are still limited in what they can do. So they may impress you with their AMAZING POWER, they just arn't are up to everything you might feel is AMAZING even if the developers want to cater to your little desires. BTW, I think the devs prefer to focus on a wider range of target machines over the cutting edge systems.
I understand this. But there also has to be a point where you just have to let go of the past and focus on today's technology.
I know Age of Conan tried this, and couldn't deliever DX10, but they are working on it. This I applaud them. They aren't trying to make a MMORPG that some 386SX with 4MB of EDO RAM can run.
I don't live in a 3rd world country.
I don't mind cartoons. But I understand that an MMORPG is suppose to reach out to a massive audience... but it's 2008 and computers are amazingly powerful and super cheap.
So why must the companies make it so the lowest mentally retarded child not even 15 years old will enjoy it?
What about the hard working person who can actually buy the finer things in life and have a computer that's a bit more powerful then a 6 year old cellphone.
Hardware life cycle these days for technology is 6 to 12 months, the minimum specs they have published are fairly standard for what average people might have. We do not know what the recommended setting are yet as they have not published them nor have they put out anything out on what the final build looks like as only CB folks might know and I doubt they are even seeing the final build yet. If you are going to have large PVP and RVR battles something has to give. You are not going to have 300 on 300 or 400 on 400 battle and be able to have graphics like AOC they tried and failed to do.
What they have provided is a clean looking visual enviorment that lots of people should be able to enjoy and battle with each other and not have it end up being a power point presentation in the process.
Lol, this post started as a trollish:
"War = cartoon graphics ~
cartoon graphics = childishness and dumb"
And by extension, war online - and war art in general - graphically appeals to those that have a liking for childish-dumb cartoons.
It should have ended there, but instead transmogrified into a brilliantly mad - and pointless - debate on the aesthetics of the orc, what constitutes "realism" and/or "believability" in art etc.
These forums are going the way of AOC fast!
Anyway, I am sucker for trolls and madness, so here goes...
Personally, I love the art-style of WAR as it fits with their Douglas Adams/Terry Pratchet style sense of humour, combined with a delicious love of the surreal, weird and bizarre.
The war orcs, incidentally are, basically Tolkien's proletarian orcs updated for the post-1970s generation of football hooligans and, perhaps moreso, a fine British satire reflecting public hysteria over hooligans and the underclass. You will find such bourgeois hysteria over an ape-like, Frankenstein monster like lumpen-proletariat in Brit publications all throughout the 18th, 19th and 20 th centuries. This is the essential origin of the WAR orc art style, ramped up x100 to great satirical and playful effect.
I love WAR because its humour is so British and I do worry that some Americans may miss the cultural jokes and references.
Regards
Melmoth
You know wich art style is usually utilized for satires?
Well, caricature and Cartoon.
So, by your definition, War orcs are cartoony.
And by the way, there is nothing mad about the discussion about beliveable art style in fantasy...
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I think in the end it this whole stupid topic once again comes down to what do you want from the game and how do you wish it to perform.
1. Do you want the game to look like Warhammer, have large scale battles without a ton of lag, and be only mid level graphically compared to Single player games & AoC.
2. Do you want the game to look realistic, have medium to small scale battles possible lag and be on the same level as Aoc and either be heavily instanced or a complete POS.
3. I want all of the above despite reality and no instancing while we're at it!
If you answered 2 or 3 you should go back to dream land and stop QQing & Whining that its not realistic enough. These are games..games are not 'real'. Games are supposed to be fun. These are MMOS ..until WoW came along there was never this huge QQ whine fest about how realistic the graphics should be and that they should be top of the line. MMOs have always been a couple of generations behind graphically and tahts why they're allow for Massive Multiplayer and not 16 vs 16 BS from single player games.
I love how when someone states their opinion about something it is considered whining.
First of all...Its an opinion based on screenshots and screenshots can be misleading thats why other people's opinion were asked for.
Second...What you just posted sounds a lot more like whining then an opinion...I'm sorry if i pissed on your shoes but so be it.
Third..If you know something about the topic maybe you should post it instead of the angry crybaby fanboy post you chose..instancing was never mentioned..to be honest I don't mind instancing.
Fourth... I never asked for super shiny graphics..just less cartoony. Hell, even old EQ2 is less cartoony
Yea... take a look at the vid i posted an hour ago or so... ok, i agree it's a bit cartoonish but it's a GAME... what else do you expect from a game?
Also... anyone remember the MUD days? or even picked up a book lately? How come you never complain about book illustrations saying "that's not how i pictured it..."
I think people are just getting spoiled too much with the graphics thing... and even tho i cant say i ignore graphics completly i'm usualy a LOT more interested about the mechanics and features (it would be like saying that you dont care how a girl looks as long as she's good and has a sense of humor)
So if you like the game but the graphics are "bad" from your point of view... and you REALY cant get over it... just don't play it... since, like said before, mythic HAS to stick with the IP or they loose the license...