FACT - The vast majority of players like to kill x to get y, z number of times, WoW the proof of that. FACT - If the gameplay is there, and the fun factor is there then people will leave in masses to try out WAR. Word of mouth is quite a powerful medium. FACT - How do you know that? Are you in cb? FACT - See fact number 1. This is pure and utter bullshit. FACT - These kinda threads are overdone and tiresome. This thing been discussed to death, over and over, again and again on these forums. Use search a little and check for yourself. This thread no better than spam. Useless at best. If the fantasy genre is so boring as you claim it is, then why is the mmo market at its highest ever? It may be boring to you, but you are a minor minority, maybe not even that in the huge sea that the mmo market have become.
Your very incorrect on a few items:
1. WOW is not proof of players "liking to kill x to get y, z number of times" WoW is in fact proof that an "easy mode" MMO will attract players of all ages, something other MMO's BEFORE WoW where unable to do, so please get your FACT straight there first.
2. Folks will not leave in masses for a game like WAR i hate to break this to you, but WAR is not an all time new "innovative" title and will not attract the masses that WoW has. In fact chances are WAR will only attract the "minority of pvp player base WOW has" and even then WAR has to offer something new and innovative that WoW doesnt have or will have with their upcoming expansion.
3. These kind of threads are what the industry needs, they need a wake up call. Players in general want new and fresh ideas, new experiences and NOT the same old same old cookie-cut run of the mill clones.
4. And no, there is NO huge sea that the MMO market has become as you so state, That is only NOW starting to appear slowly, but the truth is the MMO market is lacking allot.
You want fresh and new ideas. I am perfectly happy with refinement, improvements and innovation on old ideas and that is what WAR has. You do not speak for the gaming community, it is just your opinion.
FACT - You make yourself look like an idiot to anyone that has been playing in beta.
WAR is not like other games. It is a vastly different experience with a huge focus on PVP, RVR, etc. Even still, the PVE is well done, and works well to alleviate a grindy feel. Why don't you just stop stating FACTs that are opinions and either:
a) Try the game for yourself if you think you need to tell other people facts about it, or
b) Stop making yourself look like an idiot and find something better to do with your time.
FACT - The vast majority of players like to kill x to get y, z number of times, WoW the proof of that. FACT - If the gameplay is there, and the fun factor is there then people will leave in masses to try out WAR. Word of mouth is quite a powerful medium. FACT - How do you know that? Are you in cb? FACT - See fact number 1. This is pure and utter bullshit. FACT - These kinda threads are overdone and tiresome. This thing been discussed to death, over and over, again and again on these forums. Use search a little and check for yourself. This thread no better than spam. Useless at best. If the fantasy genre is so boring as you claim it is, then why is the mmo market at its highest ever? It may be boring to you, but you are a minor minority, maybe not even that in the huge sea that the mmo market have become.
Your very incorrect on a few items:
1. WOW is not proof of players "liking to kill x to get y, z number of times" WoW is in fact proof that an "easy mode" MMO will attract players of all ages, something other MMO's BEFORE WoW where unable to do, so please get your FACT straight there first.
2. Folks will not leave in masses for a game like WAR i hate to break this to you, but WAR is not an all time new "innovative" title and will not attract the masses that WoW has. In fact chances are WAR will only attract the "minority of pvp player base WOW has" and even then WAR has to offer something new and innovative that WoW doesnt have or will have with their upcoming expansion.
3. These kind of threads are what the industry needs, they need a wake up call. Players in general want new and fresh ideas, new experiences and NOT the same old same old cookie-cut run of the mill clones.
4. And no, there is NO huge sea that the MMO market has become as you so state, That is only NOW starting to appear slowly, but the truth is the MMO market is lacking allot.
I don't see why it couldn't be the next big thing. You say it will not because it isn't new an innovative, but World of Warcraft was not new and innovative. World of Warcraft just refined what existing MMORPGs has already done just as Warhammer is doing. Why change a winning formula?
I personally don't like the dumbing down of the genre and making everything instant gratification but I did like how smooth World of Warcraft ran and it's original classes and combat. I think they have ruined it over the years now but it was a good thing. Now it is nothing more than a glorified group dueling game. Ashame to creat such a big world and utilize a space the size of an arena at the end. Anyhow that is off the topic.
FACT: You obviously have no idea what constitutes a fact.
FACT: You = Epic fail.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. Yes this seems to be true as we see lots of people crying out for something new and interesting. However it is a sad fact that actually most peoples imaginations can only stretch to what they have already seen. If you give people something new, complex and interesting then they will just get upset because they wont know what to do. Most people are sheep and they can only understand simplistic level based games. Level based games are terrible so I certainly hope they fade away soon. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. No they might not leave but they will just play WAR as well as WoW. Or they might cancel their subscription to WoW and renew it at a later date so they can still feel attached to their level 70 cookie cutter characters. WAR will be like a giant expansion pack for them where they can grind through more endless levels and farm for yet more phat loot. FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. True but nobody cares. Most players just want to feel comfortable and stick with what they know, even if its mindless crap. In WAR everyone is "uber" so all the easily pleased people are happy. Everyone has super cool armour and uber weapons. Its what the kiddies and WoW fans want so thats what they are getting. I have a number of friends who say the same old crap like "Oh I'm gonna be a chaos warrior cos they look cool", totally failing to realise that thousands of other people will be the same as them. Hi my names Fire Wizard #753! FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! I hope this is true. Unfortunately if WAR is really successful then more interesting games may take a dive in favour of more brainless mush. Simple and easy to understand products sell I'm afraid. Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become! No it might not make a dent in an "oh this is unique" sense but it will make a lot of money which is all the developers care about. Oh and for all of those statements to be FACT you need to back it up with actual figures. I have the same viewpoint as you as I also think the mmo market is total crap at the moment but I think you are giving the human race far too much credit. Most people fall into the "monkey see monkey do" bracket
First of all you do not know me, so assuming you "think i do not know" is just naive. Second, give a talented group of programmers, artist and musicians 20+ million to make an MMO title and they will deliver perfection! Mythic is only trying to get a "bite" of WOW player base in order to make cash, period!
Fact: you don't know what the word 'naive' means
Taking a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' as truth = naive
Doubting a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' = skeptic
And to your second point: Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash? Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?
FACT: You obviously have no idea what constitutes a fact. FACT: You = Epic fail.
If this is the best WAR community has to offer, then need i say more?
Oh yeah you win! Quote one person who... really points out the fact that you don't even know what the word FACT means, and then assume that he represents the best of the community. You win for troll of the week.
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: MY PERSONAL OPINION - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. MY PERSONAL OPINION - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. MY PERSONAL OPINION - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. MY PERSONAL OPINION - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!
FIXED
When you provide authentic evidence to support your claims, you can change it back. Until then I recommend asking a grade school teacher to go over the difference between fact and opinion with you again.
Fact: you don't know what the word 'naive' means Taking a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' as truth = naive Doubting a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' = skeptic And to your second point: Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash? Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?
Did you come up with all that on your own? nice.
Considering you havent read the thread and simply "typing for the sake of it" allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made.
1. "Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash?" I mean i dont even know where to start here since you seem to have the correct definition to everything, im sure you can come up with what i would like to use here!
2. "Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?" This part bothers me, it very obveious you have no real world knowledge of game developement and the politics that go with it, there for i will not waste time explaining it to you, however the fact of the matter remains that for the amount of money game developers use and pay their employees its a "crime" not to expect more than what they deliver!
FACT - You couldn't do any better. If games are becomign to repetive for you, I'd challenge you to design a totally new design of MMO's. Let's see how that works out.
Fund me 20+ million and provide me with a team and ill show you what a ture innovative MMO should be!
Fact: you don't know what the word 'naive' means Taking a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' as truth = naive Doubting a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' = skeptic And to your second point: Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash? Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?
Did you come up with all that on your own? nice.
Considering you havent read the thread and simply "typing for the sake of it" allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made.
1. "Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash?" I mean i dont even know where to start here since you seem to have the correct definition to everything, im sure you can come up with what i would like to use here!
2. "Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?" This part bothers me, it very obveious you have no real world knowledge of game developement and the politics that go with it, there for i will not waste time explaining it to you, however the fact of the matter remains that for the amount of money game developers use and pay their employees its a "crime" not to expect more than what they deliver!
rofl - you are pure entertainment.
"allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made"
1. I don't know where to start here, you have all the correct definitions
2. I will not waste time explaining it to you
Thanks for setting me straight!
But don't feel bad; we aren't laughing with you, we are laughing AT you.....wait did I get that backwards?
But I am curious, I would LOVE for you to explain 'real world knowldedge of game development and politics that go with it'. It certainly would not be wasting time, you who are filled with a resevoir of endless knowledge on the subject. Start with your credentials, you know, your degrees, work experience and some of the games you have developed, either publicly or privately. I will enjoy the read for hours.
OPINION: you don't know what the word 'naive' means Taking a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' as truth = naive Doubting a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' = skeptic And to your second point: Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash? Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?
Fund me 20+ million and provide me with a team and ill show you what a ture innovative MMO should be!
Haha, and while you guys are at it give me 20+mil for my ideas, because my visions of greatness are out of this world! I promise a world ever evolving, see that tree over there? It will change with the ingame seasons. See that cub? In one ingame year it will be full grown bear. See that outhouse over there? Thats what you will be doing with your cash.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Originally posted by sabutai22 FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!
I'm still curious which new innovative titles are coming out that will make Warhammer and Warcraft short lived?
Don't be a tease, name the games. I'm anxious to read about them.
FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.
FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!
I don't want to post any offensive language that someone might cry about because of their high level of sensitivity, however.....
You have NO idea what your talking about period the end.
These forums are DEAD IMO nothing new and creaitive and CB and OB are here, so no point in reading the trash posted here by people upset WAR is awesome.
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!
FACT - You don't know nor can speak on behalf of the majority of WoW players. The "vast majority" or players don't post on forums and I doubt you spend 24/7 in game on every server just watching chat.
FACT - The majority of WoW players are over in Asia and you don't know them.
FACT - Public Quests are innovative, and creative. Also, a game does not really need to be innovative to work, look at all the innovative mmos that launched the past couple of years, namely Vanguard and AoC. If your game is fun people will play it.
FACT - People said this about WoW long ago yet it is still around so this point is null and void.
No, WAR will not be a WoW killer, no MMO will. You just chose poor points and tried to speak on behalf of a group of people that you can not speak for. WAR will do fine and I see it as the next game that sits between 750k-1.25 million subs. Nowhere near WoW status but certainly carve one hefty niche in the market.
FACT - The OP does not speak for me or the gaming community, as proof i would like to present this thread as evidence. If in fact the OP spoke for the gaming community, this thread would have more agreement with the original topic. Since it does not, logic infers that since A does not equal to B, then the OP's argument is false.
Comments
Your very incorrect on a few items:
1. WOW is not proof of players "liking to kill x to get y, z number of times" WoW is in fact proof that an "easy mode" MMO will attract players of all ages, something other MMO's BEFORE WoW where unable to do, so please get your FACT straight there first.
2. Folks will not leave in masses for a game like WAR i hate to break this to you, but WAR is not an all time new "innovative" title and will not attract the masses that WoW has. In fact chances are WAR will only attract the "minority of pvp player base WOW has" and even then WAR has to offer something new and innovative that WoW doesnt have or will have with their upcoming expansion.
3. These kind of threads are what the industry needs, they need a wake up call. Players in general want new and fresh ideas, new experiences and NOT the same old same old cookie-cut run of the mill clones.
4. And no, there is NO huge sea that the MMO market has become as you so state, That is only NOW starting to appear slowly, but the truth is the MMO market is lacking allot.
You want fresh and new ideas. I am perfectly happy with refinement, improvements and innovation on old ideas and that is what WAR has. You do not speak for the gaming community, it is just your opinion.
FACT - You couldn't do any better.
If games are becomign to repetive for you, I'd challenge you to design a totally new design of MMO's. Let's see how that works out.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
FACT: Anyone who plays WoW is a simpleton shortbus rider.
FACT - You make yourself look like an idiot to anyone that has been playing in beta.
WAR is not like other games. It is a vastly different experience with a huge focus on PVP, RVR, etc. Even still, the PVE is well done, and works well to alleviate a grindy feel. Why don't you just stop stating FACTs that are opinions and either:
a) Try the game for yourself if you think you need to tell other people facts about it, or
b) Stop making yourself look like an idiot and find something better to do with your time.
Fact - vast majority of my personalities like halfling races. There're no halflings in Warhammer, so it will fail.
Your very incorrect on a few items:
1. WOW is not proof of players "liking to kill x to get y, z number of times" WoW is in fact proof that an "easy mode" MMO will attract players of all ages, something other MMO's BEFORE WoW where unable to do, so please get your FACT straight there first.
2. Folks will not leave in masses for a game like WAR i hate to break this to you, but WAR is not an all time new "innovative" title and will not attract the masses that WoW has. In fact chances are WAR will only attract the "minority of pvp player base WOW has" and even then WAR has to offer something new and innovative that WoW doesnt have or will have with their upcoming expansion.
3. These kind of threads are what the industry needs, they need a wake up call. Players in general want new and fresh ideas, new experiences and NOT the same old same old cookie-cut run of the mill clones.
4. And no, there is NO huge sea that the MMO market has become as you so state, That is only NOW starting to appear slowly, but the truth is the MMO market is lacking allot.
I don't see why it couldn't be the next big thing. You say it will not because it isn't new an innovative, but World of Warcraft was not new and innovative. World of Warcraft just refined what existing MMORPGs has already done just as Warhammer is doing. Why change a winning formula?
I personally don't like the dumbing down of the genre and making everything instant gratification but I did like how smooth World of Warcraft ran and it's original classes and combat. I think they have ruined it over the years now but it was a good thing. Now it is nothing more than a glorified group dueling game. Ashame to creat such a big world and utilize a space the size of an arena at the end. Anyhow that is off the topic.
FACT: You obviously have no idea what constitutes a fact.
FACT: You = Epic fail.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Agreed.
Fact: you don't know what the word 'naive' means
Taking a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' as truth = naive
Doubting a perfect strangers unsupported 'facts' = skeptic
And to your second point: Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash? Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?
If this is the best WAR community has to offer, then need i say more?
If this is the best WAR community has to offer, then need i say more?
Oh yeah you win! Quote one person who... really points out the fact that you don't even know what the word FACT means, and then assume that he represents the best of the community. You win for troll of the week.
FIXED
When you provide authentic evidence to support your claims, you can change it back. Until then I recommend asking a grade school teacher to go over the difference between fact and opinion with you again.
Did you come up with all that on your own? nice.
Considering you havent read the thread and simply "typing for the sake of it" allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made.
1. "Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash?" I mean i dont even know where to start here since you seem to have the correct definition to everything, im sure you can come up with what i would like to use here!
2. "Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?" This part bothers me, it very obveious you have no real world knowledge of game developement and the politics that go with it, there for i will not waste time explaining it to you, however the fact of the matter remains that for the amount of money game developers use and pay their employees its a "crime" not to expect more than what they deliver!
If this is the best WAR community has to offer, then need i say more?
Pot calling the kettle black much?
Fund me 20+ million and provide me with a team and ill show you what a ture innovative MMO should be!
Did you come up with all that on your own? nice.
Considering you havent read the thread and simply "typing for the sake of it" allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made.
1. "Can you name the talented group of programmers artists and musicians who are NOT working in order to make cash?" I mean i dont even know where to start here since you seem to have the correct definition to everything, im sure you can come up with what i would like to use here!
2. "Isn't that why we all have jobs? Or do you think that because they are 'game developers' it is somehow morally wrong that they wish to make cash off their creativity and hard work?" This part bothers me, it very obveious you have no real world knowledge of game developement and the politics that go with it, there for i will not waste time explaining it to you, however the fact of the matter remains that for the amount of money game developers use and pay their employees its a "crime" not to expect more than what they deliver!
rofl - you are pure entertainment.
"allow me to educate you on a few points you incorrectly made"
1. I don't know where to start here, you have all the correct definitions
2. I will not waste time explaining it to you
Thanks for setting me straight!
But don't feel bad; we aren't laughing with you, we are laughing AT you.....wait did I get that backwards?
But I am curious, I would LOVE for you to explain 'real world knowldedge of game development and politics that go with it'. It certainly would not be wasting time, you who are filled with a resevoir of endless knowledge on the subject. Start with your credentials, you know, your degrees, work experience and some of the games you have developed, either publicly or privately. I will enjoy the read for hours.
FIXED
Fact: I will play WAR
Fact: With 10mil on WOW it will be hard for any mmo to kill WOW
Fact: You do not speak for the vast majority
Fact: I am not a WAR fanbui. atleast not yet
Fact: You Sir are a Troll. Go back to the WOW boards
This thread is so full of exciting and fresh ideas.
Oh...Oh my God! My monitor is leaking with dead horse guts!
------------------------------
Meow
Haha, and while you guys are at it give me 20+mil for my ideas, because my visions of greatness are out of this world! I promise a world ever evolving, see that tree over there? It will change with the ingame seasons. See that cub? In one ingame year it will be full grown bear. See that outhouse over there? Thats what you will be doing with your cash.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
I'm still curious which new innovative titles are coming out that will make Warhammer and Warcraft short lived?
Don't be a tease, name the games. I'm anxious to read about them.
FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels.
FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life!
I don't want to post any offensive language that someone might cry about because of their high level of sensitivity, however.....
You have NO idea what your talking about period the end.
These forums are DEAD IMO nothing new and creaitive and CB and OB are here, so no point in reading the trash posted here by people upset WAR is awesome.
See all of you in cool folks in the headstart.
FACT - You don't know nor can speak on behalf of the majority of WoW players. The "vast majority" or players don't post on forums and I doubt you spend 24/7 in game on every server just watching chat.
FACT - The majority of WoW players are over in Asia and you don't know them.
FACT - Public Quests are innovative, and creative. Also, a game does not really need to be innovative to work, look at all the innovative mmos that launched the past couple of years, namely Vanguard and AoC. If your game is fun people will play it.
FACT - People said this about WoW long ago yet it is still around so this point is null and void.
No, WAR will not be a WoW killer, no MMO will. You just chose poor points and tried to speak on behalf of a group of people that you can not speak for. WAR will do fine and I see it as the next game that sits between 750k-1.25 million subs. Nowhere near WoW status but certainly carve one hefty niche in the market.
<a href="http://dailysurveypanel.com/?r=Varking"><img src="http://b01.dailysurveypanel.com/dsp_468x60.gif"; border=0></a>
FACT - The OP does not speak for me or the gaming community, as proof i would like to present this thread as evidence. If in fact the OP spoke for the gaming community, this thread would have more agreement with the original topic. Since it does not, logic infers that since A does not equal to B, then the OP's argument is false.