You have been talking on behalf of the community. Read your first post where you were stating things were fact when they were not, and used the term vast majority to back your point. If you are speaking on behalf of a vast majority, you are speaking on behalf of a community. You were wrong though and most, if not all of those, were indeed, not a fact. Just opinions. You fail at that concept.
You never played DAOC is my guess. RVR lately? I'm one of the "vast majority" players from WoW you speak of. I've been playing it since it was released. I have several 70s, all of them decked out and all on PVP server. I quit playing about a month ago because the game is stale and the PVP completely sucks. The Arena is a pimp / bragging contest and its a complete joke. Most PVP is instanced in very small zones and the world PVP is completely dead. PVE is a joke because getting gear is easier in the little Arena than it is in heavy raiding. WoW is a game about the self. Getting gear and money for yourself. There is virtually no teamwork in the game. A common broadcast: "450+ resilience Priest LF 400+ resilience rogue to get my rating up so I can get cool lewtz! Will pay xxxxxx gold to the best rogue to come along!" You can virtually buy your gear now due to certain classes lording over arena. Do yourself a favor and open your mind past the WoW machine and try WAR for yourself, because no one here is going to give you one ounce of credit in your argument with the post you first put up.
Thanks for answering most of points, you have in a very strange way answered the state in which the MMO industry is in and why we need "innovation" and "change" NOT the cookie-cut clone games being released.
Geez here another classic example of WAR community at its best, so once again i shall delve and explain; No one said pushing technology means hardware you silly rabbit; Technology doesnt have to be hardware, its in the manner which software is designed. Too many companys are simply opting to "buy" pre-made MMO engines which share the same core system and they simply dress it up and 'whoala" out comes MMO of X Title which so many of you flock to purchase! A well written graphics driver is by far much better than the standard cookie-cut API drivers used by most of the game developers that purchase premade MMO engines! And im by no means talking on behalf of the community, im talking on behalf of those that "understand" what im talking about! which you dont seem to get.
Oh come on Sabutai, your grasping at straws here. MMO companies HAVE to purchase engines since they cost so bloody much to make from the ground up. Not to mention the time constraints that would be involved with building everything. The only way to go about building your own engine is how the team behind Fallen Earth is handling it. Build the engine first, sell it to other gaming companies, then continue with your game. However on the other side, look how long Fallen Earth has been in development.
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FACT: You obviously have no idea what constitutes a fact. FACT: You = Epic fail.
I have to admit that I would listen to a million teenage girls say 'Oh, no! You didn't go there!' than one more person say the phrase 'epic fail' on this board.
2 questions: 1) i am older than you....so why bring age into it? 2) if these games were so great...why arent you playing them? I am playing EVE. atm...i started in SWG, played that for 4 years before being displaced. I disliked wow, kinda liked EQ2. But none of these games had the fun feeling the WAR is bringing IMHO. Though i would trade it all back in for SWG of old.
1. LOL? not sure what you mean there, but i can say im 999 years old? so point not taken.
2. Simple. Dated 2D games and games that still use DX7 while making monthly payments on are just plain silly, it would be like taking a car loan for $30K just to buy an old used beetle with 200K miles because it has good memories.
3. I have played just about ALL MMO's and will try any and all MMO that continue to release not to mention playing CB every chance given, and i mean i go way back to World of Drakkar as a tester. Im not sure i would compare WAR and SWG. SWG at its prime was new and innovative, it was the ONLY MMO at its time that not only had a ground game but a space game which even allowed players to man turrets while a pilot flew in space. now thats innovatation! Its too bad the business drove it to where its current state is at today!
Look, I agree there needs to be some innovation in the MMO market. Hell, have you seen the RTS market? That doesn't mean a developer can't improve upon the cookie cutter design that currently exists. Take Sins of a Solar Empire for example. A very nice RTS with some great new features (and would you guess that they took a step away from the very cookie cutter "campaign" mode to home-in on the online play aspect?) that is doing quite well in the market.
There is plenty of room in the MMO market for competition with WoW. The argument you are making could be made for many different things. Seen any truly original movies lately? Yet they don't stop making comic book movies and remakes - why? Because we go see them and many of us like them.
Now, nothing you say changes the opinions I stated in my first post about WoW. I've got 3 copies of WAR pre-ordered and pretty much everyone in my guild has quit WoW. I also know many who are staying.
Oh come on Sabutai, your grasping at straws here. MMO companies HAVE to purchase engines since they cost so bloody much to make from the ground up. Not to mention the time constraints that would be involved with building everything. The only way to go about building your own engine is how the team behind Fallen Earth is handling it. Build the engine first, sell it to other gaming companies, then continue with your game. However on the other side, look how long Fallen Earth has been in development.
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!
fact yeah a lot of us would like to see a game go beyond the grind fest but at the moment its all part of the mmo experiance . also i kind ve like to chat to people on my msn while playing a game in window mode sometimes so the grind actually does nt bother me that much
fiction thats not true about warcraft players while i will go back to level up my two level 70s at some point if warhammers any good i will happily stay there for a good while before i do that . lets face it theres usually two years between warcraft expansions so you have plenty of time to alternate play
fact and fiction yes i want something new but i also want something familiar with new features .what warhammer does i gather is offer more world pvp . thats what a lot of people want and actually it could mean you can avoid the grindfest you talk about .
fact yes the mmo market does lack innovation at the moment but its very hard to do something inovative when the status quo is so popular . i m sure something will turn up eventually to turn it all on its head but thats a long way off and i think what well see is a gradual progression in complexity of game play lets face it half life 2 is a progession of games like the doom and castle wolfenstien , the sims and black and while are a natural progression from games like populous . your expecting too much for the mmo market to evolve over night .
personally i would like to see some expansion on the types of genres we have in the mmo market . a good horror game would be nice . still with a few new sci fi mmos in the works and on a couple of superheros games too it there should be plenty of variety out there .
Look, I agree there needs to be some innovation in the MMO market. Hell, have you seen the RTS market? That doesn't mean a developer can't improve upon the cookie cutter design that currently exists. Take Sins of a Solar Empire for example. A very nice RTS with some great new features (and would you guess that they took a step away from the very cookie cutter "campaign" mode to home-in on the online play aspect?) that is doing quite well in the market. There is plenty of room in the MMO market for competition with WoW. The argument you are making could be made for many different things. Seen any truly original movies lately? Yet they don't stop making comic book movies and remakes - why? Because we go see them and many of us like them. Now, nothing you say changes the opinions I stated in my first post about WoW. I've got 3 copies of WAR pre-ordered and pretty much everyone in my guild has quit WoW. I also know many who are staying.
I like your point and agree, ill even go as far as stating yes, look at the movies. Just about every silly movie thats been made is some kind of remake! I mean how many versions of hulk to we really need?
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. Please share your statistical data, market research, and any and all quantitative data you have obtained to label this point as fact. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. Please share your statistical data, market research, and any and all quantitative data you have obtained to label this point as fact.
FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. So you are 1.) a WAR beta player currently in violation of the NDA and 2.) in possession of research data taken from all other beta players, allowing you to label this point as fact. FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Please share your statistical data, market research, and any and all quantitative data you have obtained to label this point as fact.
I have no plans to play War. I am not a fanboi, nor have I even played the tabletop version. I simply loath people who post personal opinion as "Fact". If you've come to these conclusions based on posts you've read during your browsing in these and other similar forums.....
FACT: The majority of persons who play MMORPG's do not visit these websites. They prefer to spend their free time actually playing mmorpg's, rather then reading posts about playing them written by people not playing them.
I admit, i have no data to support this fact. But we've seen numbers that list the population of WoW alone at near or over 10 million players. I am pretty sure these forums do not have anywhere near that many readers...and that is just one game. hopefully, I can get the benefit of the doubt on this, but i concede....its not fact...simply my estimated guess.
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Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!
Go back to WoW and enjoy then...
FACT - People are looking forward to a game that were ment to have PvP, and a experienced firm to succed another great epic PvP game.
Im not gonna ditch this game before i have tried it, just because trolls like to throw rocks at games thay dont even intend to play.
grab some investors or take a bank loan out for a few mil and create your own game :P seems no game will ever be "worthy" of your high standards but an imaginary one. There is nothing on the horizon which can possible make you happy. And if you say Darkfall i am so going to beat you lol
ah being young is bliss if it was only that simple!
Anyway to answer your question:
World of Drakkar - made me happy when played via Genie
UO - Made me happy with its open sandbox game play and unique skill system
EQ - Made me happy with its true 1st person view, Questing system and level based structure
AC - Made me happy being abit of a mixture between UO and EQ in that they created the level based skill system.
Eve-Online - Made me happy by "innovating" a single shard world and a VERY creative offline skill system.
Anyway, i can continue but im not sure your mind can wrap around the point ive been trying to make, so you if you like you can continue to be sheep and follow the standard cookie-cut clones.
I think everything you like in MMO's is what i hate. Offline level/skill gaining is something i am strongly against. I don't want to wait to travel to zones. I don't want high death penalties. Too be honest I'm a pvp junkie that wants to focus on being in the midst of combat.
WAR is a combination of things, however WAR is not innovative.
WAR takes 2 very popular games, one of them a has been and one of them immortal. Mythic is trying to merge these 2 games into 1.
They are taking their milestone project DAoC, arguably the greatest PVP/RvR MMO of all time, and trying to wrap a WoW design mold over the top of it.
WAR has the game mechanics of DAoC, with the look and feel of WoW.
There is nothing wrong with this concept, it just has been done. WAR will accomplish a few things. I will go down the list of what WAR will do.
First off WAR will finally kill it's predecessor Dark Age of Camelot. I had recently resubbed to DAoC about 2 months ago. I did not speak to 1 single person while on the normal cluster that wasn't leaving for WAR.
All DAoC players are fully aware of how the RvR system works, and they look forward to being able to play RvR with a nicer looking wrapper on it.
Next WAR will pull some of the WoW crowd with its WoW cloned graphics. (I know the IP of Warhammer is cartoon in style blah blah, I play the beta and it looks just like WoW that's all I am saying).
It will pull some of the burnouts from WoW, though not many, not as many as you would think. I would wager a max of 250k spanning all WoW servers will leave for WAR. Not much of a dent really, when most of those will return for the WotLK.
WAR is just reviving some dead concepts, concepts which were stellar in it's prime and needed a breath of life breathed back into them. WAR will accomplish this.
I do however agree that people are getting tired of the cookie cutter, elves, dwarves and orc scenerio. There are games on the horizon that will change the pace of this soon, Star Trek, Stargate, Jumpgate, Huxley, many titles that steer away from the realm of magic lore.
Things WAR will not accomplish.
It will not put a dent into the warmachine that is World of Warcraft. WoW is a juggernaut of epic proportions. I think WoW is an ok game, still WAY better than anything on the market today. I am not a huge fanboi of WoW, I just tell it like it is, nothing touches WoW, nothing comes close to it, and WAR will not be the one to dethrone it. WAR won't even put a dent in it and Blizzard knows it.
WAR will not be some awe inspiring game handed down from the heavens to grace it's light upon thee.
It is an ok game, it will have some followers like I stated, the DAoC crowd and the WoW burnouts maybe pulling a few from all other MMO's who are also burnt out on their respective games.
People and sheep, well I personally think they are more like lemmings. They follow each other and do what the others are doing. Very few people in this world have vision, the OP has it, refusing to accept the mediocrity that is MMO gaming in the year 2008.
For this vision he has to pay the price, he must face the wrath of the fanboi. I hope he has thick skin.
ah being young is bliss if it was only that simple! Anyway to answer your question: World of Drakkar - made me happy when played via Genie UO - Made me happy with its open sandbox game play and unique skill system EQ - Made me happy with its true 1st person view, Questing system and level based structure AC - Made me happy being abit of a mixture between UO and EQ in that they created the level based skill system. Eve-Online - Made me happy by "innovating" a single shard world and a VERY creative offline skill system. Anyway, i can continue but im not sure your mind can wrap around the point ive been trying to make, so you if you like you can continue to be sheep and follow the standard cookie-cut clones.
I think everything you like in MMO's is what i hate. Offline level/skill gaining is something i am strongly against. I don't want to wait to travel to zones. I don't want high death penalties. Too be honest I'm a pvp junkie that wants to focus on being in the midst of combat.
Let me try this again, those are examples of "innovations" in the MMO industry, games that have set a higher bar for the rest and pushing the technology forward. Im not listing my personal likes/dislikes im listing what each game company did in order to further the MMO industry, not sure you grasp what im saying.
Its not a matter of WAR this and WoW that, its a matter of FACT's: FACT - Vast majority of players are tired of the same level based grind fest, kill X and rinse repeat Y amount of times before you may proceed. FACT - The majority of WoW player base WILL NOT leave their fully developed characters just to start another level based grind all over again. FACT - WAR lacks innovation and creativity, the vast majority of players want something new, not the same fantasy setting killing animals for X amount of times just to advance in levels. FACT - The MMO market is starting to realize the lack of innovation and creativity and some of the new upcoming titles are proof, This will make WAR and any other WoW cookie-cut level based clone a short lived shelf life! Im sure all the Warhammer fanbui's will enjoy the game, but to fill your mind with pure fantasies about how WAR is the next WoW killer is not only ridiculous but naive. Although i applaud your "faith" the fact of the matter is, WAR wil not make much of a dent in an already dull and boaring genre that the fantasy MMO has become!
FACT- I agree with you
FACT - Since Wows success big corporations eyes have sparked with realizing the cash that can be made off of our MMO community.
FACT - War will make millions in a safe game design method with little risk to pull in some cash for profit of a company.
FACT - Very few game companies will ever have the balls to design a true innovative game NOT based on this safe WoW formula.
FACT - Big corporations can care less about you, or innovation, they care about $$$
I'd like to interject here: The suggestion that people with established characters in other MMORPGs won't move to WAR (thus abandoning their hard work) is bollocks.
Hundreds of thousands of MMORPG players are always looking for greener pastures and a better game, whether they have an uber character or not. Most of us on this forum have been in that position.
Hell, plenty of people just quit playing an MMORPG altogether, abandoning their uber character out of boredom and/or frustration. It's bound to happen eventually, because there's only so much entertainment and content to be had.
Besides which, you don't have to give up that uber character. You can cancel your account and re-activate it later, and most big-name MMORPGs will save your character for at least a year if you decide to return to that game.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I really don't agree that most ex-WoW players are going to return for WOTLK. I played WoW since release until about a month ago. I won't ever be back. Fini. Done. Adding 10 levels and making all the gear I earned with their grindfest worthless isn't going to make me want to come back for more grindfest. WoW's PVP is a joke. So I've heard they have done some nice things with WOTLK, but its still just WoW. On the other hand, I also played DAOC from its beta and several years. The RVR was always better than the junk WoW had to offer in PVP. The fact that you re-subbed to DAOC tells me you must have liked something about it yourself.
Do I think it will kill WoW? Not a chance. Will it take away a good number of players permanently? Definately. I'm one of them. Could it possibly hurt WoW's big bank? For sure.
After all, what did BC do for a lot of us? The old world PVE zones are unused ghost towns now. All gear we earned in classic WoW that we worked hard for became worthless to many BC green items!!! They tacked on Arena for the pimpfest bragging rights, which is nothing more than a glorified Quake Arena. DAOC/WAR RVR is so much more.
WoW is based around grinding and gold sinks to keep you playing longer (raiding/arena/bg/mount/enchants/alts) and will continue that way. If you actualy look at all the new PvP wow is putting in, alot of is VERY similar to what WAR is doing, but WAR's still sounds better.
WAR is based around getting loot for being active in PvP/PvE,
6 completely UNIQUE leveling paths, not start in 1 of 5 progress to 2 of 3 then follow the same line you have 30+ times already. Lower levels contributing to out come of the final push to an enemys capital city.
NO GANKING!!!! ( that alone is huge ) no more getting owned in an even fight then running to your epic'd out 70 (to be 80) so you can look like a bad ass. (i honestly laugh at people who have to run to get 70's because it shows that they got owned)
NO HEAL BOTS - Healers have to do damage to heal!!! (You need skills)
PvE designed to be fun and based around solo or groups as you choose.
FACT- I agree with you FACT - Since Wows success big corporations eyes have sparked with realizing the cash that can be made off of our MMO community. FACT - War will make millions in a safe game design method with little risk to pull in some cash for profit of a company. FACT - Very few game companies will ever have the balls to design a true innovative game NOT based on this safe WoW formula. FACT - Big corporations can care less about you, or innovation, they care about $$$ FACT - that sucks!
Its very rare to meet someone that understands the "big" picture! Thank you for your post! and agree with you 110%
To many WAR fanbui's think im bashing their game when im not, im only stating what the industry has become yet so many rejoice over nothing!
It's also worth noting that innovation, new features and developers' willingness to try something new doesn't always produce a game anyone wants to play.
Tabula Rasa and PotBS are both prime examples of this... they both incorporated a lot of new features and generated plenty of excitement, but the execution was definitely lacking, and they each have only a very modest player base (my personal opinion of TR is that it's a turd and can go straight to Hell, high-fiving Hitler and Stalin on the way to the deepest depths).
So WAR may have more of the same, though I also personally think they're including many innovative new features (and high production values), but as long as it's done RIGHT, it'll still be awesome.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I agree with this to some degree but mods really did take a lot of the skill out of the end game and even out of PvP. If WoW had just cut back on what mods could do a bit I think it wouldn't get quite as bad a rap. People would still be on the hater bandwagon just because it is cool to hate what is popular but things wouldn't be quite as negative.
Skydragonren, I really don't agree that most ex-WoW players are going to return for WOTLK. I played WoW since release until about a month ago. I won't ever be back. Fini. Done. Adding 10 levels and making all the gear I earned with their grindfest worthless isn't going to make me want to come back for more grindfest. WoW's PVP is a joke. So I've heard they have done some nice things with WOTLK, but its still just WoW. On the other hand, I also played DAOC from its beta and several years. The RVR was always better than the junk WoW had to offer in PVP. The fact that you re-subbed to DAOC tells me you must have liked something about it yourself. Do I think it will kill WoW? Not a chance. Will it take away a good number of players permanently? Definately. I'm one of them. Could it possibly hurt WoW's big bank? For sure. After all, what did BC do for a lot of us? The old world PVE zones are unused ghost towns now. All gear we earned in classic WoW that we worked hard for became worthless to many BC green items!!! They tacked on Arena for the pimpfest bragging rights, which is nothing more than a glorified Quake Arena. DAOC/WAR RVR is so much more.
Oh! no doubt DAoC was the best PvP game this world has ever seen, I won't dispute this fact. Mythic made a lot of terrible decisions regarding the game, clusters, and server types, which killed the game to what it is today. Even still nothing matches DAoC's pvp game.
WAR RvR will murder WoW PvP hands down, I'm not disputing that fact either. I would never dream to boast otherwise.
That being said PvPers are still a minority when compared to PvEers it is sad but true. Which is why WAR can't dent WoW. It is a game based on DAoC which is based off WAR of realms, not questing or raiding.
Like I said I'm no WoW fanboi, the game is good, even the haters can't dispute the fact that its a good well polished game.
I resub to my previous games just to think about the past, however since beta I have never once unsubbed from WoW.
I told myself whenever a game that comes out that is a true equal to WoW or even better than WoW, I would unsub.
Sad to say but that day has never came, and I have played every MMO to be to released even F2P since UO.
I still hold true to that as well, when a game comes along that I find is truly WoW's equal I will quit WoW.
FACT - War will make millions in a safe game design method with little risk to pull in some cash for profit of a company. Seriously, do you blame them? Look at what happened to AoC trying something different. Now all people do is bash it. The only companies you will see release drastically reformed ideas will be indie companies, and most of them will fail on their journey to stardom. FACT - Very few game companies will ever have the balls to design a true innovative game NOT based on this safe WoW formula. True innovation is hard to come by, you know it, I know it, and so does everyone else. Then you have the form of innovation in the minds of an idiot. Look at Brad McQuade for example. FACT - Big corporations can care less about you, or innovation, they care about $$$ Fact indeed, you will never change this. Corporations are out for there for your money and they always will be.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Skydragonren, I really don't agree that most ex-WoW players are going to return for WOTLK. I played WoW since release until about a month ago. I won't ever be back. Fini. Done. Adding 10 levels and making all the gear I earned with their grindfest worthless isn't going to make me want to come back for more grindfest. WoW's PVP is a joke. So I've heard they have done some nice things with WOTLK, but its still just WoW. On the other hand, I also played DAOC from its beta and several years. The RVR was always better than the junk WoW had to offer in PVP. The fact that you re-subbed to DAOC tells me you must have liked something about it yourself. Do I think it will kill WoW? Not a chance. Will it take away a good number of players permanently? Definately. I'm one of them. Could it possibly hurt WoW's big bank? For sure. After all, what did BC do for a lot of us? The old world PVE zones are unused ghost towns now. All gear we earned in classic WoW that we worked hard for became worthless to many BC green items!!! They tacked on Arena for the pimpfest bragging rights, which is nothing more than a glorified Quake Arena. DAOC/WAR RVR is so much more.
Oh! no doubt DAoC was the best PvP game this world has ever seen, I won't dispute this fact. Mythic made a lot of terrible decisions regarding the game, clusters, and server types, which killed the game to what it is today. Even still nothing matches DAoC's pvp game.
WAR RvR will murder WoW PvP hands down, I'm not disputing that fact either. I would never dream to boast otherwise.
That being said PvPers are still a minority when compared to PvEers it is sad but true. Which is why WAR can't dent WoW. It is a game based on DAoC which is based off WAR of realms, not questing or raiding.
Like I said I'm no WoW fanboi, the game is good, even the haters can't dispute the fact that its a good well polished game.
I resub to my previous games just to think about the past, however since beta I have never once unsubbed from WoW.
I told myself whenever a game that comes out that is a true equal to WoW or even better than WoW, I would unsub.
Sad to say but that day has never came, and I have played every MMO to be to released even F2P since UO.
I still hold true to that as well, when a game comes along that I find is truly WoW's equal I will quit WoW.
Yeah, I don't think me and you are too far off the mark on opinions. I know many WoW players on my server who feel the same way as you. There is no doubt there is no currently released game as good as WoW. A fantastic achievement in gaming. You also agree that the PVP is very poorly implemented. Although I think I came off as sort of a PVP nut, I'm not. I love a good PVE session and working with a guild as much as the next guy (my time in EverQuest is still some of the most fun MMO I've ever had). One thing I liked about DAOC was the ability to do both PVE and PVP (RVR). Trials of Atlantis killed the game for many DAOC players, including me, but if that expansion had been better I might STILL be playing that game. So I'm hoping that WAR will improve on DAOC's PVE and have that fantastic RVR that I enjoy. Better graphics and a new engine just adds icing on the cake for me. I also hold to my word I will never play WoW again. I'm one of those people who put entirely too much time into it and its lost all entertainment value for me. My account still exists and I could always go back, but I just won't. It's like quitting smoking for me. You either do it and stop talking about it, or you keep smoking.
Comments
You have been talking on behalf of the community. Read your first post where you were stating things were fact when they were not, and used the term vast majority to back your point. If you are speaking on behalf of a vast majority, you are speaking on behalf of a community. You were wrong though and most, if not all of those, were indeed, not a fact. Just opinions. You fail at that concept.
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Thanks for answering most of points, you have in a very strange way answered the state in which the MMO industry is in and why we need "innovation" and "change" NOT the cookie-cut clone games being released.
Oh come on Sabutai, your grasping at straws here. MMO companies HAVE to purchase engines since they cost so bloody much to make from the ground up. Not to mention the time constraints that would be involved with building everything. The only way to go about building your own engine is how the team behind Fallen Earth is handling it. Build the engine first, sell it to other gaming companies, then continue with your game. However on the other side, look how long Fallen Earth has been in development.
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You wouldn't understand
I am too.
I'm also getting sick of people like the OP who think they speak for everyone. FACT.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have to admit that I would listen to a million teenage girls say 'Oh, no! You didn't go there!' than one more person say the phrase 'epic fail' on this board.
Try and be a little more creative, please.
1. LOL? not sure what you mean there, but i can say im 999 years old? so point not taken.
2. Simple. Dated 2D games and games that still use DX7 while making monthly payments on are just plain silly, it would be like taking a car loan for $30K just to buy an old used beetle with 200K miles because it has good memories.
3. I have played just about ALL MMO's and will try any and all MMO that continue to release not to mention playing CB every chance given, and i mean i go way back to World of Drakkar as a tester. Im not sure i would compare WAR and SWG. SWG at its prime was new and innovative, it was the ONLY MMO at its time that not only had a ground game but a space game which even allowed players to man turrets while a pilot flew in space. now thats innovatation! Its too bad the business drove it to where its current state is at today!
Look, I agree there needs to be some innovation in the MMO market. Hell, have you seen the RTS market? That doesn't mean a developer can't improve upon the cookie cutter design that currently exists. Take Sins of a Solar Empire for example. A very nice RTS with some great new features (and would you guess that they took a step away from the very cookie cutter "campaign" mode to home-in on the online play aspect?) that is doing quite well in the market.
There is plenty of room in the MMO market for competition with WoW. The argument you are making could be made for many different things. Seen any truly original movies lately? Yet they don't stop making comic book movies and remakes - why? Because we go see them and many of us like them.
Now, nothing you say changes the opinions I stated in my first post about WoW. I've got 3 copies of WAR pre-ordered and pretty much everyone in my guild has quit WoW. I also know many who are staying.
ColdSun
Locklain, i admit you got me here.
fact yeah a lot of us would like to see a game go beyond the grind fest but at the moment its all part of the mmo experiance . also i kind ve like to chat to people on my msn while playing a game in window mode sometimes so the grind actually does nt bother me that much
fiction thats not true about warcraft players while i will go back to level up my two level 70s at some point if warhammers any good i will happily stay there for a good while before i do that . lets face it theres usually two years between warcraft expansions so you have plenty of time to alternate play
fact and fiction yes i want something new but i also want something familiar with new features .what warhammer does i gather is offer more world pvp . thats what a lot of people want and actually it could mean you can avoid the grindfest you talk about .
fact yes the mmo market does lack innovation at the moment but its very hard to do something inovative when the status quo is so popular . i m sure something will turn up eventually to turn it all on its head but thats a long way off and i think what well see is a gradual progression in complexity of game play lets face it half life 2 is a progession of games like the doom and castle wolfenstien , the sims and black and while are a natural progression from games like populous . your expecting too much for the mmo market to evolve over night .
personally i would like to see some expansion on the types of genres we have in the mmo market . a good horror game would be nice . still with a few new sci fi mmos in the works and on a couple of superheros games too it there should be plenty of variety out there .
I like your point and agree, ill even go as far as stating yes, look at the movies. Just about every silly movie thats been made is some kind of remake! I mean how many versions of hulk to we really need?
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Go back to WoW and enjoy then...
FACT - People are looking forward to a game that were ment to have PvP, and a experienced firm to succed another great epic PvP game.
Im not gonna ditch this game before i have tried it, just because trolls like to throw rocks at games thay dont even intend to play.
ah being young is bliss if it was only that simple!
Anyway to answer your question:
World of Drakkar - made me happy when played via Genie
UO - Made me happy with its open sandbox game play and unique skill system
EQ - Made me happy with its true 1st person view, Questing system and level based structure
AC - Made me happy being abit of a mixture between UO and EQ in that they created the level based skill system.
Eve-Online - Made me happy by "innovating" a single shard world and a VERY creative offline skill system.
Anyway, i can continue but im not sure your mind can wrap around the point ive been trying to make, so you if you like you can continue to be sheep and follow the standard cookie-cut clones.
I think everything you like in MMO's is what i hate. Offline level/skill gaining is something i am strongly against. I don't want to wait to travel to zones. I don't want high death penalties. Too be honest I'm a pvp junkie that wants to focus on being in the midst of combat.
WAR.....
WAR is a combination of things, however WAR is not innovative.
WAR takes 2 very popular games, one of them a has been and one of them immortal. Mythic is trying to merge these 2 games into 1.
They are taking their milestone project DAoC, arguably the greatest PVP/RvR MMO of all time, and trying to wrap a WoW design mold over the top of it.
WAR has the game mechanics of DAoC, with the look and feel of WoW.
There is nothing wrong with this concept, it just has been done. WAR will accomplish a few things. I will go down the list of what WAR will do.
First off WAR will finally kill it's predecessor Dark Age of Camelot. I had recently resubbed to DAoC about 2 months ago. I did not speak to 1 single person while on the normal cluster that wasn't leaving for WAR.
All DAoC players are fully aware of how the RvR system works, and they look forward to being able to play RvR with a nicer looking wrapper on it.
Next WAR will pull some of the WoW crowd with its WoW cloned graphics. (I know the IP of Warhammer is cartoon in style blah blah, I play the beta and it looks just like WoW that's all I am saying).
It will pull some of the burnouts from WoW, though not many, not as many as you would think. I would wager a max of 250k spanning all WoW servers will leave for WAR. Not much of a dent really, when most of those will return for the WotLK.
WAR is just reviving some dead concepts, concepts which were stellar in it's prime and needed a breath of life breathed back into them. WAR will accomplish this.
I do however agree that people are getting tired of the cookie cutter, elves, dwarves and orc scenerio. There are games on the horizon that will change the pace of this soon, Star Trek, Stargate, Jumpgate, Huxley, many titles that steer away from the realm of magic lore.
Things WAR will not accomplish.
It will not put a dent into the warmachine that is World of Warcraft. WoW is a juggernaut of epic proportions. I think WoW is an ok game, still WAY better than anything on the market today. I am not a huge fanboi of WoW, I just tell it like it is, nothing touches WoW, nothing comes close to it, and WAR will not be the one to dethrone it. WAR won't even put a dent in it and Blizzard knows it.
WAR will not be some awe inspiring game handed down from the heavens to grace it's light upon thee.
It is an ok game, it will have some followers like I stated, the DAoC crowd and the WoW burnouts maybe pulling a few from all other MMO's who are also burnt out on their respective games.
People and sheep, well I personally think they are more like lemmings. They follow each other and do what the others are doing. Very few people in this world have vision, the OP has it, refusing to accept the mediocrity that is MMO gaming in the year 2008.
For this vision he has to pay the price, he must face the wrath of the fanboi. I hope he has thick skin.
I think everything you like in MMO's is what i hate. Offline level/skill gaining is something i am strongly against. I don't want to wait to travel to zones. I don't want high death penalties. Too be honest I'm a pvp junkie that wants to focus on being in the midst of combat.
Let me try this again, those are examples of "innovations" in the MMO industry, games that have set a higher bar for the rest and pushing the technology forward. Im not listing my personal likes/dislikes im listing what each game company did in order to further the MMO industry, not sure you grasp what im saying.
FACT- I agree with you
FACT - Since Wows success big corporations eyes have sparked with realizing the cash that can be made off of our MMO community.
FACT - War will make millions in a safe game design method with little risk to pull in some cash for profit of a company.
FACT - Very few game companies will ever have the balls to design a true innovative game NOT based on this safe WoW formula.
FACT - Big corporations can care less about you, or innovation, they care about $$$
FACT - that sucks!
SHOHADAKU
I'd like to interject here: The suggestion that people with established characters in other MMORPGs won't move to WAR (thus abandoning their hard work) is bollocks.
Hundreds of thousands of MMORPG players are always looking for greener pastures and a better game, whether they have an uber character or not. Most of us on this forum have been in that position.
Hell, plenty of people just quit playing an MMORPG altogether, abandoning their uber character out of boredom and/or frustration. It's bound to happen eventually, because there's only so much entertainment and content to be had.
Besides which, you don't have to give up that uber character. You can cancel your account and re-activate it later, and most big-name MMORPGs will save your character for at least a year if you decide to return to that game.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Skydragonren,
I really don't agree that most ex-WoW players are going to return for WOTLK. I played WoW since release until about a month ago. I won't ever be back. Fini. Done. Adding 10 levels and making all the gear I earned with their grindfest worthless isn't going to make me want to come back for more grindfest. WoW's PVP is a joke. So I've heard they have done some nice things with WOTLK, but its still just WoW. On the other hand, I also played DAOC from its beta and several years. The RVR was always better than the junk WoW had to offer in PVP. The fact that you re-subbed to DAOC tells me you must have liked something about it yourself.
Do I think it will kill WoW? Not a chance. Will it take away a good number of players permanently? Definately. I'm one of them. Could it possibly hurt WoW's big bank? For sure.
After all, what did BC do for a lot of us? The old world PVE zones are unused ghost towns now. All gear we earned in classic WoW that we worked hard for became worthless to many BC green items!!! They tacked on Arena for the pimpfest bragging rights, which is nothing more than a glorified Quake Arena. DAOC/WAR RVR is so much more.
ColdSun
WoW is based around grinding and gold sinks to keep you playing longer (raiding/arena/bg/mount/enchants/alts) and will continue that way. If you actualy look at all the new PvP wow is putting in, alot of is VERY similar to what WAR is doing, but WAR's still sounds better.
PvE designed to be fun and based around solo or groups as you choose.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqJFPH7jWE
Its very rare to meet someone that understands the "big" picture! Thank you for your post! and agree with you 110%
To many WAR fanbui's think im bashing their game when im not, im only stating what the industry has become yet so many rejoice over nothing!
It's also worth noting that innovation, new features and developers' willingness to try something new doesn't always produce a game anyone wants to play.
Tabula Rasa and PotBS are both prime examples of this... they both incorporated a lot of new features and generated plenty of excitement, but the execution was definitely lacking, and they each have only a very modest player base (my personal opinion of TR is that it's a turd and can go straight to Hell, high-fiving Hitler and Stalin on the way to the deepest depths).
So WAR may have more of the same, though I also personally think they're including many innovative new features (and high production values), but as long as it's done RIGHT, it'll still be awesome.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
<Mod edit>
I agree with this to some degree but mods really did take a lot of the skill out of the end game and even out of PvP. If WoW had just cut back on what mods could do a bit I think it wouldn't get quite as bad a rap. People would still be on the hater bandwagon just because it is cool to hate what is popular but things wouldn't be quite as negative.
Oh! no doubt DAoC was the best PvP game this world has ever seen, I won't dispute this fact. Mythic made a lot of terrible decisions regarding the game, clusters, and server types, which killed the game to what it is today. Even still nothing matches DAoC's pvp game.
WAR RvR will murder WoW PvP hands down, I'm not disputing that fact either. I would never dream to boast otherwise.
That being said PvPers are still a minority when compared to PvEers it is sad but true. Which is why WAR can't dent WoW. It is a game based on DAoC which is based off WAR of realms, not questing or raiding.
Like I said I'm no WoW fanboi, the game is good, even the haters can't dispute the fact that its a good well polished game.
I resub to my previous games just to think about the past, however since beta I have never once unsubbed from WoW.
I told myself whenever a game that comes out that is a true equal to WoW or even better than WoW, I would unsub.
Sad to say but that day has never came, and I have played every MMO to be to released even F2P since UO.
I still hold true to that as well, when a game comes along that I find is truly WoW's equal I will quit WoW.
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You wouldn't understand
Oh! no doubt DAoC was the best PvP game this world has ever seen, I won't dispute this fact. Mythic made a lot of terrible decisions regarding the game, clusters, and server types, which killed the game to what it is today. Even still nothing matches DAoC's pvp game.
WAR RvR will murder WoW PvP hands down, I'm not disputing that fact either. I would never dream to boast otherwise.
That being said PvPers are still a minority when compared to PvEers it is sad but true. Which is why WAR can't dent WoW. It is a game based on DAoC which is based off WAR of realms, not questing or raiding.
Like I said I'm no WoW fanboi, the game is good, even the haters can't dispute the fact that its a good well polished game.
I resub to my previous games just to think about the past, however since beta I have never once unsubbed from WoW.
I told myself whenever a game that comes out that is a true equal to WoW or even better than WoW, I would unsub.
Sad to say but that day has never came, and I have played every MMO to be to released even F2P since UO.
I still hold true to that as well, when a game comes along that I find is truly WoW's equal I will quit WoW.
Yeah, I don't think me and you are too far off the mark on opinions. I know many WoW players on my server who feel the same way as you. There is no doubt there is no currently released game as good as WoW. A fantastic achievement in gaming. You also agree that the PVP is very poorly implemented. Although I think I came off as sort of a PVP nut, I'm not. I love a good PVE session and working with a guild as much as the next guy (my time in EverQuest is still some of the most fun MMO I've ever had). One thing I liked about DAOC was the ability to do both PVE and PVP (RVR). Trials of Atlantis killed the game for many DAOC players, including me, but if that expansion had been better I might STILL be playing that game. So I'm hoping that WAR will improve on DAOC's PVE and have that fantastic RVR that I enjoy. Better graphics and a new engine just adds icing on the cake for me. I also hold to my word I will never play WoW again. I'm one of those people who put entirely too much time into it and its lost all entertainment value for me. My account still exists and I could always go back, but I just won't. It's like quitting smoking for me. You either do it and stop talking about it, or you keep smoking.
ColdSun