I'd comment on the rest of the debate but I find Raben to be a complete elitist jerk type from his generlization of casual gamers. When I mmo game I play maybe 20 hours a week and I consider myself casual simply because I do what I want at the pace I want and as long as I have access to something even if I don't do it..Im happy....all I ask is for the same chances & access to content as everyone else even if it takes me Longer than those that Play More. I refuse to pay for a game to be told "unless your in a guild and that guild wants to take you You can't do this activity" Its why WoW pissed me off I knew that unless I dedicated myself to a guild and play time restrictions I'd never accomplish the end game. WAR how ever is my dream come true in that sense it doesnt' make it where I have to dedicate myself to anything I don't want too but I'll still have access to everything.
While you equate disagreeing with being an "elitist jerk" for generalizing, which you along with most of the other self proclaimed casual players seem to be more guilty of.... you fail to see that you are not really a casual player based on your own admission.
You spend 20 hours a week, you go at your own pace enjoying the immersion of a game, not rushing it but because of that you dont get angry when someone has an advantage over you because they did something that rewarded them before you did (i hope?). This is not a casual player since your mentality says you know you are responsible for your own time and effort and dont get jealous about another persons time and effort.
However, WoW is not a good example since yes, it did reward the larger guilds and put PUGs at a massive dissadvantage. While WoW is a decent game in PvE, it relied too much on the idea of 40 man raid groups, which were fun but didnt work well in the scope of pvp. While PvP had its own rewards, they were never as good as the 40 man raid groups.
A lot of games rewarded the large guilds, even Daoc for example. Mythic has learned from that as I promise you Blizzard has as well with WoW (their first attempt at an MMORPG).
I can only recomend you re-evaluate what you classify yourself as and why. RPGs are a delicacy that you dont have to rush, as long as you dont expect the same equality as the person who is faster or slower than you, luckier or has more time as well.
Being a casual gamer is about a mentality, not necessarily how many hours you spend.
I'd comment on the rest of the debate but I find Raben to be a complete elitist jerk type from his generlization of casual gamers. When I mmo game I play maybe 20 hours a week and I consider myself casual simply because I do what I want at the pace I want and as long as I have access to something even if I don't do it..Im happy....all I ask is for the same chances & access to content as everyone else even if it takes me Longer than those that Play More. I refuse to pay for a game to be told "unless your in a guild and that guild wants to take you You can't do this activity" Its why WoW pissed me off I knew that unless I dedicated myself to a guild and play time restrictions I'd never accomplish the end game. WAR how ever is my dream come true in that sense it doesnt' make it where I have to dedicate myself to anything I don't want too but I'll still have access to everything.
While you equate disagreeing with being an "elitist jerk" for generalizing, which you along with most of the other self proclaimed casual players seem to be more guilty of.... you fail to see that you are not really a casual player based on your own admission.
You spend 20 hours a week, you go at your own pace enjoying the immersion of a game, not rushing it but because of that you dont get angry when someone has an advantage over you because they did something that rewarded them before you did (i hope?). This is not a casual player since your mentality says you know you are responsible for your own time and effort and dont get jealous about another persons time and effort.
However, WoW is not a good example since yes, it did reward the larger guilds and put PUGs at a massive dissadvantage. While WoW is a decent game in PvE, it relied too much on the idea of 40 man raid groups, which were fun but didnt work well in the scope of pvp. While PvP had its own rewards, they were never as good as the 40 man raid groups.
A lot of games rewarded the large guilds, even Daoc for example. Mythic has learned from that as I promise you Blizzard has as well with WoW (their first attempt at an MMORPG).
I can only recomend you re-evaluate what you classify yourself as and why. RPGs are a delicacy that you dont have to rush, as long as you dont expect the same equality as the person who is faster or slower than you, luckier or has more time as well.
Being a casual gamer is about a mentality, not necessarily how many hours you spend.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
How can you say that? really do you know what the word casual means? taking a casual pace at something is casual! i know you dont agree with anyone on this subject but you can't just decide on your opinion of casual is the correct one. Where does it state the rules for being a casual player?
Please understand that time invested is nothing to do with being hardcore/casual. It's more the attitude you take to game that makes you casual, having a casul aproach to something is the opposite to taking an agressive aproach to something, which is the impression i am getting from your posts that you think defines a casual gamer.
Raben, there's nothing really false particularly about what you're trying to say, it is indeed VERY annoying when casual people complain that those who put in crazy hours surpass them a bit, and they want the game to even the playing field and have nothing really to accomplish.
Unfortunately, that argument and point holds absolutely no value in this thread. The OP never once even remotely began to whine or moan, "stomp his feet" or whatever else you want to call it. He asked a simple question whether he would be able to enjoy the game without a serious commitment to it, and you started spouting off at the mouth attacking him and all other players who claim to be casual.
Your tyrade applies to a very small segment of casual players, just as all the defensive statements made against hardcore no-lifers only apply to a certain amount of more hardcore players. I consider myself on the bottom end of hardcore, I am typically a little more accomplished than most, but still spend time with my wife and work full time. (Although my wife is totally into WAR for some reason so I'm covered this time around )
To answer the OP's question (GASP back on track now??), yes you will have a great time playing WAR as a casual player. The nice thing about WAR as was mentioned before, is all the RvR is localized to each Tier of each pairing. If higher levels try to swoop in on lower tiers, they get "chickened", or nerfed beyond use. So basically you can take 6 months to lvl from 10-20, but everytime you log on you will play nothing but 10-20s and always have something fun to do (aside from possible population problems).
A few other nice things to keep in mind:
Gear does not matter that much, so you won't run into "twinks" in the different tiers, or have to grind for awesome gear on each tier.
The overall war effort starts at the bottom Tier and flows upwards, so even your lowly Tier 1/2 efforts will contribute to the end game Tier 4 efforts.
YOU GET EXPERIENCE FOR KILLING OTHER PLAYERS. This ends that anguish of having to choose between fun PvP, or leveling like you should be doing, especially having only a few hours to play. This also makes twinking impossible basically.
Like was mentioned before, you can click the button on the mini map from anywhere in the world, join the queue for a scenario, and be out in the world doing whatever you want. The queue pops, and you can join, play the scenario and it puts you back where you were. This cuts out making a trip to a city, and just standing there waiting for a battleground, playing one, repeat. You can make the most of your time.
Basically you can log on, quest in PvE, do some world RvR, all the while participating in scenarios without interruption. Any RvR you partake in will be mostly balanced, maybe not if you're much lower level, but you can at least have fun and contribute without getting beaten to the point of frustrtaion. If you kind of liked WoW, and REALLY like PvP, PLAY THIS GAME. As someone who one week may play 50 hours, and the next play 5, I can really vouch that it's great for anyone.
this isnt wow, there is no hardcore vs casual debate. everyone will finish the game with the exact same gear and all their stats caped at the same numbers.
there will be no quaterly patches to release higher level content and gear for those who advance faster.... the separation will be between skilled and unskilled not plays alot and plays little.
if you advance faster.... go kill someone and have fun.... if you advance slower.... kill someone and have fun
Well basically what it comes down to is Fun. Which is the point of a game as a form of entertainment. That said, the debate stems from players not having fun because someone else is having fun due to accomplishing something they have not or they feel cannot accomplish.
As long as players worry less about what the person next to you has, and think more about what they can look forward to accomplishing then its fine. If i see someone with really nice gear thats tearing me up in pvp, i want to know what that gear is and look forward to figuring out how to counter it or getting it. Its that simple.
What worries me most is the effect the casual gamer mentality has on game design as a whole, where features are limited to make them happy while the over all depth and complexity of a game suffers.
I'm casual but in no means "carebear" at the moment just started playing and having a great fulfilling time in Ryzom. maybe all casuals should come to Ryzom
I consider myself casual because I'm laid back about it I just want to enjoy my sessions. In my experience "hardcore" gamers take everthing too serious and if you dont play like they do they piss on you. I think those types of people may eventually get annoyed with WAR because the game is rather laid back in attitude.
To be honest labels like casual and hardcore have multiple meanings its why they're pointless blanket terms. You hate the Instant Gratification types ...not all of those types are 'Casual' players.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
Perhaps it has changed since I last played WoW, but If it hasnt, they have encouraged larger guilds that are "hard core". To elaborate, you needed the numbers to fill a 40 man raid, and you cannot assume everyone will be on or ready for that 40 man raid. Thus the larger numbers you have, the more you have to choose from without going PUG, which wasnt good because most hardcore guilds used DKP.
If you have a smaller guild but hard core, you cannot expect you will always have enough players needed for any guild event.
Now I know Bliz has since learned and lowered raid dungeons to lower numbers, still withing BG's and dungeons, a guild that can do them all and do them well with larger numbers has more opportunities in a sense.
Please understand that time invested is nothing to do with being hardcore/casual. It's more the attitude you take to game that makes you casual, having a casul aproach to something is the opposite to taking an agressive aproach to something, which is the impression i am getting from your posts that you think defines a casual gamer. That's to Raben btw
Thats what I have been saying this whole time if you have spent the time to read the posts given. However, i have seen many snide remarks, bitter remarks, judging players who play more as children with no life from you and others. You cannot expect a game to cater to you, and because you pay the fee to log into their servers, that does not mean the developers should give in to everything that makes a player bitter at not being equal to another.
Wrong on that one. Its not a literally interpretation, but the behavioral patterns of each equating with bitterness. Like that one guy said, casuals feel above everyone else, as if they deserve what they dont have. No one is entitled to the same things every time, but what you work for you should get. If something needs a large group, then get a large group, if you cannot, then dont expect to get it. Its very simple really.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
Perhaps it has changed since I last played WoW, but If it hasnt, they have encouraged larger guilds that are "hard core". To elaborate, you needed the numbers to fill a 40 man raid, and you cannot assume everyone will be on or ready for that 40 man raid. Thus the larger numbers you have, the more you have to choose from without going PUG, which wasnt good because most hardcore guilds used DKP.
If you have a smaller guild but hard core, you cannot expect you will always have enough players needed for any guild event.
Now I know Bliz has since learned and lowered raid dungeons to lower numbers, still withing BG's and dungeons, a guild that can do them all and do them well with larger numbers has more opportunities in a sense.
The thing that is so nice about WAR is the open party system. If you're playing in RvR, just click and look for an open Warband (Raid) and join it. It kind of takes all the scheduling, planning, etc. out of it and allows you just to go there, jump in, and still enjoy some structure in your group.
Also, guilds will be able to form alliances, or "guilds of guilds" basically, so I imagine later in the game you will always have someone to play with.
In WAR I really liked not ever having that feeling of standing around in city for 2 hours like in WoW. Waiting for a scenario? Go do something while you wait. Want to compete in RvR? Go there and kill people. And so forth. I really think it's a good balance, sure you'd rather organize a massive guild RvR event and take a keep for your guild, and play with your friends and so forth, but if you don't have that or don't even want it, you certainly aren't left out.
Like i said, lets hope the Warhammer community is not like Rabenwolf....a simple question and he turns to attack...very very immature, I wonder how he will respond to ingame newbie players when they ask a question or for help....Rabenwolf, do us a favor...post your ingame name so we can destroy you in Warhammer.......
Please understand that time invested is nothing to do with being hardcore/casual. It's more the attitude you take to game that makes you casual, having a casul aproach to something is the opposite to taking an agressive aproach to something, which is the impression i am getting from your posts that you think defines a casual gamer. That's to Raben btw
Thats what I have been saying this whole time if you have spent the time to read the posts given. However, i have seen many snide remarks, bitter remarks, judging players who play more as children with no life from you and others. You cannot expect a game to cater to you, and because you pay the fee to log into their servers, that does not mean the developers should give in to everything that makes a player bitter at not being equal to another.
Wrong on that one. Its not a literally interpretation, but the behavioral patterns of each equating with bitterness. Like that one guy said, casuals feel above everyone else, as if they deserve what they dont have. No one is entitled to the same things every time, but what you work for you should get. If something needs a large group, then get a large group, if you cannot, then dont expect to get it. Its very simple really.
Originally posted by Jakeryan0
Unfortunately, that argument and point holds absolutely no value in this thread. The OP never once even remotely began to whine or moan, "stomp his feet" or whatever else you want to call it. He asked a simple question whether he would be able to enjoy the game without a serious commitment to it, and you started spouting off at the mouth attacking him and all other players who claim to be casual.
First of Raben get over yourself will ya!
I have not been making snide remarks ( untill now ) and sorry but you are simply wrong accept it. The word casual does not mean someone who is bitter because they dont get rewards for no effort. sorry but no matter how many times you explain it you are still wrong. Really people does anyone else agree with this guy? all my life i have been brought up to believe that the casual guy is the one that thinks to himself " oh i can't have that? oh well no bother" and yet you Raben are telling me the opposite and stating it as fact lol.
Sorry mate your wrong. and i am still waiting for you to link those remarks i made, which you directly accused me of, not just casual's. the first remark i made did not generalise as you are trying to say. read my history i have made many remarks about my experiences with my 12 year old son playing for hours on end. the other remark, where is it? you are accusing people so back it up now.
Casual is casual simple as that and you are not going to tell me otherwise.
Unfortunately, that argument and point holds absolutely no value in this thread. The OP never once even remotely began to whine or moan, "stomp his feet" or whatever else you want to call it. He asked a simple question whether he would be able to enjoy the game without a serious commitment to it, and you started spouting off at the mouth attacking him and all other players who claim to be casual.
Oh but he did.
"Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
His question carried more than just a question, but an insult and or bitterness in regards to his biased approach to the question. The point behind the question was against hard core players or players who have more time to play and thus ruin his fun.
Originally posted by Jakeryan0 The thing that is so nice about WAR is the open party system. If you're playing in RvR, just click and look for an open Warband (Raid) and join it. It kind of takes all the scheduling, planning, etc. out of it and allows you just to go there, jump in, and still enjoy some structure in your group. Also, guilds will be able to form alliances, or "guilds of guilds" basically, so I imagine later in the game you will always have someone to play with. In WAR I really liked not ever having that feeling of standing around in city for 2 hours like in WoW. Waiting for a scenario? Go do something while you wait. Want to compete in RvR? Go there and kill people. And so forth. I really think it's a good balance, sure you'd rather organize a massive guild RvR event and take a keep for your guild, and play with your friends and so forth, but if you don't have that or don't even want it, you certainly aren't left out.
Oh I agree, WAR is nice in that regard. I my self love to solo more than group, which it allows the solo player to jump in and participate without actually relying on the group itself.
However, the game will still require 2-4 hour play periods with a 6 man group for some of their epic dungeons. If i have a group and the time, i can enjoy them if not i wont worry so much about it.
WoW is primarily a PvE game, where as WAR is PvP. WoW is blizzards first MMORPG, Mythic has already had experience developing Daoc. Its hard to compare the two in that regard.
Never thought I would be saying this about my own thread, but please lock and, better yet, delete this entire thread.
Nothing like having one person derail your entire post about simply asking if this game is casual gamer friendly. I didn't expect this to become just another flame war about which is better, hardcore or casual...and it seems like no one even knows what that is anymore.
Thank you to all who actually answered that original question. See you in the game.
Is that meant to be the quotes? i can't even see my name on them! are you even looking at what your putting on these forums lol?.
I was replying to Jaker, thats why his name are in the quotes. You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. I am trying to keep most of my replies in one post rather than double or triple post.
Originally posted by Centhan
Never thought I would be saying this about my own thread, but please lock and, better yet, delete this entire thread. Nothing like having one person derail your entire post about simply asking if this game is casual gamer friendly. I didn't expect this to become just another flame war about which is better, hardcore or casual...and it seems like no one even knows what that is anymore. Thank you to all who actually answered that original question. See you in the game.
Your thread is not derailed. Your question has a bias and insults behind it, now we have a debate going. While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
This thread is fine, and if you wish to close it because you disagree with the debate, then just dont read it anymore.
Whilst levelling up there is little difference between players regardless of how much time they play. A rank 27th character that gotr there in 3 nights is pretty much the same as a rank 27 character that took 3 months to get there.
This changes once you reach level cap though, and must by the very nature of MMOs. To keep people interested once they reach level there must still be some form of progression, in WAR's case this is renown ranks. If Player A has spent 500 hours RvRing at rank 40 and Player B has spent 50 hours RvRing at rank 40 it is only reasonable that Player A will have an advantage.
Where WAR differs greatly from that other game is that gear is not AS important. It still matters, but the gear difference between Player A and Player B will be much smaller than in the game that must not be named.
I intend to get serious into this game and not be casual. That said from my beta time it seems to me this game is very casual friendly. You can log in and create a character and immediatley join the RvR scenarios. Or do a few quick quests. etc.
Character advancement is reletively straight foward and having the best gear is not required to help the realm. Gear is important but this is nothing like WoW where gear trumps skill 99 percent of the time.
Pretty much everything you do in game helps your side win the ultimate goals. Which in turn benefits everyone. I think this may be one of the most casual friendly mmo's to come out in a long time.
I intend to get serious into this game and not be casual. That said from my beta time it seems to me this game is very casual friendly. You can log in and create a character and immediatley join the RvR scenarios. Or do a few quick quests. etc. Character advancement is reletively straight foward and having the best gear is not required to help the realm. Gear is important but this is nothing like WoW where gear trumps skill 99 percent of the time. Pretty much everything you do in game helps your side win the ultimate goals. Which in turn benefits everyone. I think this may be one of the most casual friendly mmo's to come out in a long time.
Is that meant to be the quotes? i can't even see my name on them! are you even looking at what your putting on these forums lol?.
I was replying to Jaker, thats why his name are in the quotes. You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. I am trying to keep most of my replies in one post rather than double or triple post.
Originally posted by Centhan
Never thought I would be saying this about my own thread, but please lock and, better yet, delete this entire thread. Nothing like having one person derail your entire post about simply asking if this game is casual gamer friendly. I didn't expect this to become just another flame war about which is better, hardcore or casual...and it seems like no one even knows what that is anymore. Thank you to all who actually answered that original question. See you in the game.
Your thread is not derailed. Your question has a bias and insults behind it, now we have a debate going. While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
This thread is fine, and if you wish to close it because you disagree with the debate, then just dont read it anymore.
Raben please look t your post. That's the response you sent directly to me a few pages back, so of course having just asked for quotes of what you accused me of i would presume that repasting a previous reply you sent directly to me whould be ....to me lol.
Centhan from the other replys we have had in this thread it seems as though WAR will cater for the casual gamer. I have not played the game but from what i have read there is always going to be a way we can participate and make a difference. So hopefully we can meet in a few weeks in game and see for ourselves
<snip> You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. <snip> <snip>While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.<snip>
Oh but he did. "Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?" His question carried more than just a question, but an insult and or bitterness in regards to his biased approach to the question. The point behind the question was against hard core players or players who have more time to play and thus ruin his fun.
I guess you could look at it like that, but honestly some games, some that I have played, are completely designed around only rewarding the most ridicuously hardcore of players. He wasn't so much mocking people who play a lot as mocking games that catch you up in that cycle.
Oh I agree, WAR is nice in that regard. I my self love to solo more than group, which it allows the solo player to jump in and participate w ithout actually relying on the group itself. WoW is primarily a PvE game, where as WAR is PvP. WoW is blizzards first MMORPG, Mythic has already had experience developing Daoc. Its hard to compare the two in that regard.
Yeah I know you can't exactly compare, I just know it's like a breath of fresh air coming from WoW. I've quit wow almost a year ago, for the second time, but before I did a majority of all my time was spent jumping around in Ironforge, and rearranging my life to attend raids. I love how when I log onto WAR I'm always doing something, and even at max level always will be.
<snip> You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. <snip> <snip>While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.<snip>
Do honestly not see the flame there?
Not quite. I was quoting Jaker and in response i get a response from someone else along the lines of "haha is that your quotes to me? haha maybe you dont know how to use the forums" ..ect Its not a flame if i am questioning someones reading comprehension for that.
The second bit is not a flame as well. There are a few immature responses calling me immature that i have not even bothered replying to.
Originally posted by Rabenwolf This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it...
In all the years I've been reading game forums I have never seen anyone ask to have character advancement without having to do anything. Not once.
The conflict between so called 'casual' and 'hardcore' usually arises from the type of gameplay required for advancement and the number of consequetive hours a person has to play in one sitting to accomplish a goal.
Anyway, Rabenwolf, your definition of casual seems to be different from most peoples' and I think that may be causing some confusion here. Also you don't seem to be obssesed with raiding if I'm reading you right and that's kind of funny because if that's true I know there are people who would label you as a casual just based on that.
Comments
While you equate disagreeing with being an "elitist jerk" for generalizing, which you along with most of the other self proclaimed casual players seem to be more guilty of.... you fail to see that you are not really a casual player based on your own admission.
You spend 20 hours a week, you go at your own pace enjoying the immersion of a game, not rushing it but because of that you dont get angry when someone has an advantage over you because they did something that rewarded them before you did (i hope?). This is not a casual player since your mentality says you know you are responsible for your own time and effort and dont get jealous about another persons time and effort.
However, WoW is not a good example since yes, it did reward the larger guilds and put PUGs at a massive dissadvantage. While WoW is a decent game in PvE, it relied too much on the idea of 40 man raid groups, which were fun but didnt work well in the scope of pvp. While PvP had its own rewards, they were never as good as the 40 man raid groups.
A lot of games rewarded the large guilds, even Daoc for example. Mythic has learned from that as I promise you Blizzard has as well with WoW (their first attempt at an MMORPG).
I can only recomend you re-evaluate what you classify yourself as and why. RPGs are a delicacy that you dont have to rush, as long as you dont expect the same equality as the person who is faster or slower than you, luckier or has more time as well.
Being a casual gamer is about a mentality, not necessarily how many hours you spend.
While you equate disagreeing with being an "elitist jerk" for generalizing, which you along with most of the other self proclaimed casual players seem to be more guilty of.... you fail to see that you are not really a casual player based on your own admission.
You spend 20 hours a week, you go at your own pace enjoying the immersion of a game, not rushing it but because of that you dont get angry when someone has an advantage over you because they did something that rewarded them before you did (i hope?). This is not a casual player since your mentality says you know you are responsible for your own time and effort and dont get jealous about another persons time and effort.
However, WoW is not a good example since yes, it did reward the larger guilds and put PUGs at a massive dissadvantage. While WoW is a decent game in PvE, it relied too much on the idea of 40 man raid groups, which were fun but didnt work well in the scope of pvp. While PvP had its own rewards, they were never as good as the 40 man raid groups.
A lot of games rewarded the large guilds, even Daoc for example. Mythic has learned from that as I promise you Blizzard has as well with WoW (their first attempt at an MMORPG).
I can only recomend you re-evaluate what you classify yourself as and why. RPGs are a delicacy that you dont have to rush, as long as you dont expect the same equality as the person who is faster or slower than you, luckier or has more time as well.
Being a casual gamer is about a mentality, not necessarily how many hours you spend.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
How can you say that? really do you know what the word casual means? taking a casual pace at something is casual! i know you dont agree with anyone on this subject but you can't just decide on your opinion of casual is the correct one. Where does it state the rules for being a casual player?
Please understand that time invested is nothing to do with being hardcore/casual. It's more the attitude you take to game that makes you casual, having a casul aproach to something is the opposite to taking an agressive aproach to something, which is the impression i am getting from your posts that you think defines a casual gamer.
That's to Raben btw
Raben, there's nothing really false particularly about what you're trying to say, it is indeed VERY annoying when casual people complain that those who put in crazy hours surpass them a bit, and they want the game to even the playing field and have nothing really to accomplish.
Unfortunately, that argument and point holds absolutely no value in this thread. The OP never once even remotely began to whine or moan, "stomp his feet" or whatever else you want to call it. He asked a simple question whether he would be able to enjoy the game without a serious commitment to it, and you started spouting off at the mouth attacking him and all other players who claim to be casual.
Your tyrade applies to a very small segment of casual players, just as all the defensive statements made against hardcore no-lifers only apply to a certain amount of more hardcore players. I consider myself on the bottom end of hardcore, I am typically a little more accomplished than most, but still spend time with my wife and work full time. (Although my wife is totally into WAR for some reason so I'm covered this time around
)
To answer the OP's question (GASP back on track now??), yes you will have a great time playing WAR as a casual player. The nice thing about WAR as was mentioned before, is all the RvR is localized to each Tier of each pairing. If higher levels try to swoop in on lower tiers, they get "chickened", or nerfed beyond use. So basically you can take 6 months to lvl from 10-20, but everytime you log on you will play nothing but 10-20s and always have something fun to do (aside from possible population problems).
A few other nice things to keep in mind:
Basically you can log on, quest in PvE, do some world RvR, all the while participating in scenarios without interruption. Any RvR you partake in will be mostly balanced, maybe not if you're much lower level, but you can at least have fun and contribute without getting beaten to the point of frustrtaion. If you kind of liked WoW, and REALLY like PvP, PLAY THIS GAME. As someone who one week may play 50 hours, and the next play 5, I can really vouch that it's great for anyone.
/Walloftext
Well basically what it comes down to is Fun. Which is the point of a game as a form of entertainment. That said, the debate stems from players not having fun because someone else is having fun due to accomplishing something they have not or they feel cannot accomplish.
As long as players worry less about what the person next to you has, and think more about what they can look forward to accomplishing then its fine. If i see someone with really nice gear thats tearing me up in pvp, i want to know what that gear is and look forward to figuring out how to counter it or getting it. Its that simple.
What worries me most is the effect the casual gamer mentality has on game design as a whole, where features are limited to make them happy while the over all depth and complexity of a game suffers.
you mean the "carebear" mentality.
I'm casual but in no means "carebear" at the moment just started playing and having a great fulfilling time in Ryzom. maybe all casuals should come to Ryzom
I consider myself casual because I'm laid back about it I just want to enjoy my sessions. In my experience "hardcore" gamers take everthing too serious and if you dont play like they do they piss on you. I think those types of people may eventually get annoyed with WAR because the game is rather laid back in attitude.
To be honest labels like casual and hardcore have multiple meanings its why they're pointless blanket terms. You hate the Instant Gratification types ...not all of those types are 'Casual' players.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
Perhaps it has changed since I last played WoW, but If it hasnt, they have encouraged larger guilds that are "hard core". To elaborate, you needed the numbers to fill a 40 man raid, and you cannot assume everyone will be on or ready for that 40 man raid. Thus the larger numbers you have, the more you have to choose from without going PUG, which wasnt good because most hardcore guilds used DKP.
If you have a smaller guild but hard core, you cannot expect you will always have enough players needed for any guild event.
Now I know Bliz has since learned and lowered raid dungeons to lower numbers, still withing BG's and dungeons, a guild that can do them all and do them well with larger numbers has more opportunities in a sense.
Thats what I have been saying this whole time if you have spent the time to read the posts given. However, i have seen many snide remarks, bitter remarks, judging players who play more as children with no life from you and others. You cannot expect a game to cater to you, and because you pay the fee to log into their servers, that does not mean the developers should give in to everything that makes a player bitter at not being equal to another.
Wrong on that one. Its not a literally interpretation, but the behavioral patterns of each equating with bitterness. Like that one guy said, casuals feel above everyone else, as if they deserve what they dont have. No one is entitled to the same things every time, but what you work for you should get. If something needs a large group, then get a large group, if you cannot, then dont expect to get it. Its very simple really.
I'm not sure if i am confused by your wording or if i just disagree with you. I felt that blizzard's system actually discouraged large guilds while encouraging hardcore guilds. All of my guilds broke up in WoW over raiding issues. Every single one. WAR actually encourages large guilds because open RvR (numbers are good) and because of their expansive guild tools/leveling system. I personally like being in a large guild and this is working out for me.
Perhaps it has changed since I last played WoW, but If it hasnt, they have encouraged larger guilds that are "hard core". To elaborate, you needed the numbers to fill a 40 man raid, and you cannot assume everyone will be on or ready for that 40 man raid. Thus the larger numbers you have, the more you have to choose from without going PUG, which wasnt good because most hardcore guilds used DKP.
If you have a smaller guild but hard core, you cannot expect you will always have enough players needed for any guild event.
Now I know Bliz has since learned and lowered raid dungeons to lower numbers, still withing BG's and dungeons, a guild that can do them all and do them well with larger numbers has more opportunities in a sense.
The thing that is so nice about WAR is the open party system. If you're playing in RvR, just click and look for an open Warband (Raid) and join it. It kind of takes all the scheduling, planning, etc. out of it and allows you just to go there, jump in, and still enjoy some structure in your group.
Also, guilds will be able to form alliances, or "guilds of guilds" basically, so I imagine later in the game you will always have someone to play with.
In WAR I really liked not ever having that feeling of standing around in city for 2 hours like in WoW. Waiting for a scenario? Go do something while you wait. Want to compete in RvR? Go there and kill people. And so forth. I really think it's a good balance, sure you'd rather organize a massive guild RvR event and take a keep for your guild, and play with your friends and so forth, but if you don't have that or don't even want it, you certainly aren't left out.
Like i said, lets hope the Warhammer community is not like Rabenwolf....a simple question and he turns to attack...very very immature, I wonder how he will respond to ingame newbie players when they ask a question or for help....Rabenwolf, do us a favor...post your ingame name so we can destroy you in Warhammer.......
Thats what I have been saying this whole time if you have spent the time to read the posts given. However, i have seen many snide remarks, bitter remarks, judging players who play more as children with no life from you and others. You cannot expect a game to cater to you, and because you pay the fee to log into their servers, that does not mean the developers should give in to everything that makes a player bitter at not being equal to another.
Wrong on that one. Its not a literally interpretation, but the behavioral patterns of each equating with bitterness. Like that one guy said, casuals feel above everyone else, as if they deserve what they dont have. No one is entitled to the same things every time, but what you work for you should get. If something needs a large group, then get a large group, if you cannot, then dont expect to get it. Its very simple really.
First of Raben get over yourself will ya!
I have not been making snide remarks ( untill now ) and sorry but you are simply wrong accept it. The word casual does not mean someone who is bitter because they dont get rewards for no effort. sorry but no matter how many times you explain it you are still wrong. Really people does anyone else agree with this guy? all my life i have been brought up to believe that the casual guy is the one that thinks to himself " oh i can't have that? oh well no bother" and yet you Raben are telling me the opposite and stating it as fact lol.
Sorry mate your wrong. and i am still waiting for you to link those remarks i made, which you directly accused me of, not just casual's. the first remark i made did not generalise as you are trying to say. read my history i have made many remarks about my experiences with my 12 year old son playing for hours on end. the other remark, where is it? you are accusing people so back it up now.
Casual is casual simple as that and you are not going to tell me otherwise.
Never thought I would be saying this about my own thread, but please lock and, better yet, delete this entire thread.
Nothing like having one person derail your entire post about simply asking if this game is casual gamer friendly. I didn't expect this to become just another flame war about which is better, hardcore or casual...and it seems like no one even knows what that is anymore.
Thank you to all who actually answered that original question. See you in the game.
Is that meant to be the quotes? i can't even see my name on them! are you even looking at what your putting on these forums lol?.
Ye sorry Centhan i get annoyed when players label me sometimes. sorry about that mate we really destroyed this thread.
I was replying to Jaker, thats why his name are in the quotes. You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. I am trying to keep most of my replies in one post rather than double or triple post.
Your thread is not derailed. Your question has a bias and insults behind it, now we have a debate going. While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
This thread is fine, and if you wish to close it because you disagree with the debate, then just dont read it anymore.
Whilst levelling up there is little difference between players regardless of how much time they play. A rank 27th character that gotr there in 3 nights is pretty much the same as a rank 27 character that took 3 months to get there.
This changes once you reach level cap though, and must by the very nature of MMOs. To keep people interested once they reach level there must still be some form of progression, in WAR's case this is renown ranks. If Player A has spent 500 hours RvRing at rank 40 and Player B has spent 50 hours RvRing at rank 40 it is only reasonable that Player A will have an advantage.
Where WAR differs greatly from that other game is that gear is not AS important. It still matters, but the gear difference between Player A and Player B will be much smaller than in the game that must not be named.
I intend to get serious into this game and not be casual. That said from my beta time it seems to me this game is very casual friendly. You can log in and create a character and immediatley join the RvR scenarios. Or do a few quick quests. etc.
Character advancement is reletively straight foward and having the best gear is not required to help the realm. Gear is important but this is nothing like WoW where gear trumps skill 99 percent of the time.
Pretty much everything you do in game helps your side win the ultimate goals. Which in turn benefits everyone. I think this may be one of the most casual friendly mmo's to come out in a long time.
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There is no war in World of BoreCraft
/agree.
I was replying to Jaker, thats why his name are in the quotes. You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes. I am trying to keep most of my replies in one post rather than double or triple post.
Your thread is not derailed. Your question has a bias and insults behind it, now we have a debate going. While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
This thread is fine, and if you wish to close it because you disagree with the debate, then just dont read it anymore.
Raben please look t your post. That's the response you sent directly to me a few pages back, so of course having just asked for quotes of what you accused me of i would presume that repasting a previous reply you sent directly to me whould be ....to me lol.
Centhan from the other replys we have had in this thread it seems as though WAR will cater for the casual gamer. I have not played the game but from what i have read there is always going to be a way we can participate and make a difference. So hopefully we can meet in a few weeks in game and see for ourselves
Do honestly not see the flame there?
Do honestly not see the flame there?
Not quite. I was quoting Jaker and in response i get a response from someone else along the lines of "haha is that your quotes to me? haha maybe you dont know how to use the forums" ..ect Its not a flame if i am questioning someones reading comprehension for that.
The second bit is not a flame as well. There are a few immature responses calling me immature that i have not even bothered replying to.
In all the years I've been reading game forums I have never seen anyone ask to have character advancement without having to do anything. Not once.
The conflict between so called 'casual' and 'hardcore' usually arises from the type of gameplay required for advancement and the number of consequetive hours a person has to play in one sitting to accomplish a goal.
Anyway, Rabenwolf, your definition of casual seems to be different from most peoples' and I think that may be causing some confusion here. Also you don't seem to be obssesed with raiding if I'm reading you right and that's kind of funny because if that's true I know there are people who would label you as a casual just based on that.