This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life.
Originally posted by Rabenwolf
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry...
Originally posted by Rabenwolf
You would have to have some sort of reading comprehension problem to not figure out what I am replying to and what is their quotes.
Originally posted by Rabenwolf
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward.
And then:
Originally posted by Rabenwolf While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
Rabenwolf, you seem to be unaware of the things you've said throughout this thread, but you are the one that originally jumped in, insulting casual gamers as a whole, with no provocation. Nothing in the OP's post warrented your reaction.
Furthermore, here are some bits of information you might find useful, since you have a definition of "casual gamer" that is, at best, colloquial.
Casual gamer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Casual gamer is a loosely-defined term used to describe a type of video game player whose time or interest in playing games is limited compared with a hardcore gamer. Casual gamers can conceivably consist of any people who show more than a passing interest in video games, therefore it is difficult to categorize them as a group. For this reason, games which attempt to appeal to the casual player tend to strive for simple rules and ease of game play, the goal being to present a pick-up-and-play experience that people from any age group or skill level could enjoy.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cas·u·al Audio Help /?kæ?u?l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kazh-oo-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. happening by chance; fortuitous: a casual meeting.
2. without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark.
3. seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned: a casual, nonchalant air.
4. appropriate for wear or use on informal occasions; not dressy: casual clothes; casual wear.
5. irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.
6. accidental: a casual mishap.
7. Obsolete. uncertain.
–noun
8. a worker employed only irregularly.
9. a soldier temporarily at a station or other place of duty, and usually en route to another station.
You'll notice that, nowhere in these definitions, is a mentality of entitlement mentioned. While some casual players may, in fact, want something for nothing, your continued insistence, with no qualification, that casual gamers all act a certain way, gives the impression that you're confused, delusional, or unwilling to admit you're wrong.
Still posters here are not realizing a very very vital design feature within the RPG genre. That feature being CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. AKA, the skill comes from the character not exactly the player. This is the key difference in game mechanics from what is considered an RPG and an Action and or FPS.
Who made you God in determining what a game should be about? Games are put into categories based on features and mechanics, however that does not mean that they are all alike nor that they should follow all the typical conventions of that category. In fact, I often find that games that can successfully combine features and mechanics from different genres to be more fun and interesting.
Exactly what I was thinking as well. If upcoming devs get told what this or that genre 'should be', and everyone keeps sticking to these rules, then I'm not surprised that there's no innovation whatsoever these days.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life.
Originally posted by Rabenwolf
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry...
Originally posted by Rabenwolf While I am not flaming anyone, I am getting some immature responses back, thats fine though as I am not returning the same.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww". The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre. Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out. WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more. Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Ugh... this kind of attitude... why don't all you horrible "work for your fun" people just go back to EQ and all stroke each other?
Work? If you call MMOs work you have no concept of work. MMOs are leisure.
Dread can you please link the part or any onther part where i have said i think i am entitled to the same reward as anyone else in the game? please. I or even go through any of my post history and find just one single instance where i have said that. what i have said is that i feel i should have the same opurtunity as anyone else in the gme, be they casual/ hardcore or ny other label. by that i am not saying i should be able to achieve them, some things in games should be only achievable to the most die hard players, but every player that pays for that game should have the opurtunity to reach them if they put the same effort in. I was thinking last night about this thread and trying to go through what i had wrote. and while i still believe i have the term casual correct. Obviously i understand that it's only my abrevition of it. So is there anyone out there qualified to actually put this to bed and explain what casual should mean.
I never specifically targeted you and I was speaking toward the demeaning tone you guys are using more than the message you're trying to get across. I spent a good bit of effort trying to answer you once already. Look it up.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I'm 39 with kids and am a casual player. I accept that in every MMO I play there will be content that is not meant for me and I will not be able to attain because I cannot or will not devote the time and effort necissary to obtain it. In MMOs, time and effort are very key factors. The casuals in this thread (and in general in my experience) seem to consider themselves above the dedicated player and constantly make snide, demeaning and dismissive remarks about the hardcore players. Either they're losers or children. When they take offense the casual player that was just casting insults acts indignent about the tone of the responses. In my view as a casual player, time is definitely a factor and one I devote to other things. I don't make assumptions about the people that are able to devote more time to a game because I don't know their circumstances and it's none of my business. The ones that annoy me are my peers that act like they're above others and deserve the same rewards as the hardcore players even if those rewards are for time and effort spent. Get over yourselves and realize that if you were as objective and superior as you claim to be, you'd see it's just a game and it doesn't really matter. Being an ass to others does however.
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
There, hopefully you'll catch it before it gets burried again.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
One thing though, who are "you guys"? are all us casuals the same? and does that mean all you hardcore are the same? The point some of the main posters in this thread are trying to make is this, No where have we said that we think we are entitled to anything.
The other point is Raben is accusing people of posting demeaning remarks as you put it, but when we look back and read those remarks we find that they are reactions to a remark he has made against us, for example " casual's are the cancer of mmorpg's" Heck i even posted an apology and explained that i was finding it difficult to put down in words what i was trying to say! and did i even get n ackowledgment from him? no way, just a few posts down the line he he commented about my comprehension skills lol. So when you say were being demeaning i struggle to understand.
I'm 39 with kids and am a casual player. I accept that in every MMO I play there will be content that is not meant for me and I will not be able to attain because I cannot or will not devote the time and effort necissary to obtain it. In MMOs, time and effort are very key factors. The casuals in this thread (and in general in my experience) seem to consider themselves above the dedicated player and constantly make snide, demeaning and dismissive remarks about the hardcore players. Either they're losers or children. When they take offense the casual player that was just casting insults acts indignent about the tone of the responses. In my view as a casual player, time is definitely a factor and one I devote to other things. I don't make assumptions about the people that are able to devote more time to a game because I don't know their circumstances and it's none of my business. The ones that annoy me are my peers that act like they're above others and deserve the same rewards as the hardcore players even if those rewards are for time and effort spent. Get over yourselves and realize that if you were as objective and superior as you claim to be, you'd see it's just a game and it doesn't really matter. Being an ass to others does however.
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
There, hopefully you'll catch it before it gets burried again.
Again Dread, i can't see why the comment "12 year old sitting at his pc for hours" is a demeaning comment? did i label them as stupid or something? did i generalise that hardcore players are like this?
NO NO NO i didn't. Right lets look at the facts that you have obviously already read ( obvious because if you hadnt read them then you shouldn't be commenting ) I HAVE A 12 YEAR OLD SON THAT PLAYS, WOW, VG, EQ 1 + 2 SWG AND A FEW OTHERS. HE SITS AT HIS PC FOR HOURS ON END SOME NIGHTS AND GETS TOP LOOT IN THESE GAMES, DUE TO SPENDING HUGE AMMOUNTS OF TIME IN GAME......LOL HE EVEN PLAYS FOOTBALL WHILE HES ON RAIDS SOMETIMES IF IT'S A BIT QUIET.This is fact, as i have stated several times...i dont mind him doing that i just would like the opurtunity myself to do it if i so choose. Or even that i wouldn't mind having to spend weeks doing a quest that asks me to kill a thousand mobs to get the same item, i would just like the opurtunity to try that's all.
Now how is that demeaning, and before you say it wasn't meant specifically for me...then dont reply to the things that i ask for, ie quotes, because if you do you are specifically replying to me.
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children. I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not. shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item." Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Again Dread, i can't see why the comment "12 year old sitting at his pc for hours" is a demeaning comment? did i label them as stupid or something? did i generalise that hardcore players are like this?
NO NO NO i didn't. Right lets look at the facts that you have obviously already read ( obvious because if you hadnt read them then you shouldn't be commenting ) I HAVE A 12 YEAR OLD SON THAT PLAYS, WOW, VG, EQ 1 + 2 SWG AND A FEW OTHERS. HE SITS AT HIS PC FOR HOURS ON END SOME NIGHTS AND GETS TOP LOOT IN THESE GAMES, DUE TO SPENDING HUGE AMMOUNTS OF TIME IN GAME......LOL HE EVEN PLAYS FOOTBALL WHILE HES ON RAIDS SOMETIMES IF IT'S A BIT QUIET.This is fact, as i have stated several times...i dont mind him doing that i just would like the opurtunity myself to do it if i so choose. Or even that i wouldn't mind having to spend weeks doing a quest that asks me to kill a thousand mobs to get the same item, i would just like the opurtunity to try that's all.
Now how is that demeaning, and before you say it wasn't meant specifically for me...then dont reply to the things that i ask for, ie quotes, because if you do you are specifically replying to me.
Maybe that'll help. I'm not going to debate it with you. Calling hardcore gamers children and losers is a common insult among us casual gamers. I was pointing out that you guys were going overboard. I read your previous post already where you explained you had a 12yr old son. That's why I mentioned it. Maybe you should have mentioned that in the post where you compared hardcore gamers to a 12yr old instead of after he took offense and you used it as a tool to discredit his response.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Dread i apologise for misreading your post. One thing though, who are "you guys"? are all us casuals the same? and does that mean all you hardcore are the same? The point some of the main posters in this thread are trying to make is this, No where have we said that we think we are entitled to anything. The other point is Raben is accusing people of posting demeaning remarks as you put it, but when we look back and read those remarks we find that they are reactions to a remark he has made against us, for example " casual's are the cancer of mmorpg's" Heck i even posted an apology and explained that i was finding it difficult to put down in words what i was trying to say! and did i even get n ackowledgment from him? no way, just a few posts down the line he he commented about my comprehension skills lol. So when you say were being demeaning i struggle to understand.
No, I've been a casual gamer since EQ1 began. I try my best to argue my points without belittling the other side. I'm not always successful, but both sides of this debate seem hell-bent on taking a crap on the other every time they make a post. It's just that in this instance, those on my side are looking overzelous and paranoid by going on and on about one person's response to the OP's trollishly worded thread.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
You know what, looking at what you just put your right. ive seen that type of comment thrown about so many times i should have known better. I do have a 12 year old son lol all that is true, but saying that comment without going into it more and explaining that it's true whould have come across derogatory. i didn't mean it to i meant it in a the purest sense. i just mean that as a casual gamer i wish there was more diversity to gain rewards rather than just time.
Hope there are no hard feelings Dread. sorry mate.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww". The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre. Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out. WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more. Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Ugh... this kind of attitude... why don't all you horrible "work for your fun" people just go back to EQ and all stroke each other?
Work? If you call MMOs work you have no concept of work. MMOs are leisure.
Maybe hes not really meaning work but at least a feeling of a accomplishment? like you actually went out and did something that took some effort to acheive instead of just having it all handed to you on a platter?
Comments
And then:
Rabenwolf, you seem to be unaware of the things you've said throughout this thread, but you are the one that originally jumped in, insulting casual gamers as a whole, with no provocation. Nothing in the OP's post warrented your reaction.
Furthermore, here are some bits of information you might find useful, since you have a definition of "casual gamer" that is, at best, colloquial.
Casual gamer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Casual gamer is a loosely-defined term used to describe a type of video game player whose time or interest in playing games is limited compared with a hardcore gamer. Casual gamers can conceivably consist of any people who show more than a passing interest in video games, therefore it is difficult to categorize them as a group. For this reason, games which attempt to appeal to the casual player tend to strive for simple rules and ease of game play, the goal being to present a pick-up-and-play experience that people from any age group or skill level could enjoy.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cas·u·al Audio Help /?kæ?u?l/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kazh-oo-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. happening by chance; fortuitous: a casual meeting.
2. without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark.
3. seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned: a casual, nonchalant air.
4. appropriate for wear or use on informal occasions; not dressy: casual clothes; casual wear.
5. irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.
6. accidental: a casual mishap.
7. Obsolete. uncertain.
–noun
8. a worker employed only irregularly.
9. a soldier temporarily at a station or other place of duty, and usually en route to another station.
You'll notice that, nowhere in these definitions, is a mentality of entitlement mentioned. While some casual players may, in fact, want something for nothing, your continued insistence, with no qualification, that casual gamers all act a certain way, gives the impression that you're confused, delusional, or unwilling to admit you're wrong.
thank you! at last somone who doesn't just think thier opinion is correct but can actually back up why
Who made you God in determining what a game should be about? Games are put into categories based on features and mechanics, however that does not mean that they are all alike nor that they should follow all the typical conventions of that category. In fact, I often find that games that can successfully combine features and mechanics from different genres to be more fun and interesting.
Exactly what I was thinking as well. If upcoming devs get told what this or that genre 'should be', and everyone keeps sticking to these rules, then I'm not surprised that there's no innovation whatsoever these days.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
You should change your name to RABIDwolf
Take the Hecatomb TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Ugh... this kind of attitude... why don't all you horrible "work for your fun" people just go back to EQ and all stroke each other?
Work? If you call MMOs work you have no concept of work. MMOs are leisure.
I never specifically targeted you and I was speaking toward the demeaning tone you guys are using more than the message you're trying to get across. I spent a good bit of effort trying to answer you once already. Look it up.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
There, hopefully you'll catch it before it gets burried again.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Seen the vids and tutorials (i.e Game mechanics) from WAR i'd say this game is as casual as it could be.. but also very competitive.
sorry for bad grammar
Dread i apologise for misreading your post.
One thing though, who are "you guys"? are all us casuals the same? and does that mean all you hardcore are the same? The point some of the main posters in this thread are trying to make is this, No where have we said that we think we are entitled to anything.
The other point is Raben is accusing people of posting demeaning remarks as you put it, but when we look back and read those remarks we find that they are reactions to a remark he has made against us, for example " casual's are the cancer of mmorpg's" Heck i even posted an apology and explained that i was finding it difficult to put down in words what i was trying to say! and did i even get n ackowledgment from him? no way, just a few posts down the line he he commented about my comprehension skills lol. So when you say were being demeaning i struggle to understand.
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
There, hopefully you'll catch it before it gets burried again.
Again Dread, i can't see why the comment "12 year old sitting at his pc for hours" is a demeaning comment? did i label them as stupid or something? did i generalise that hardcore players are like this?
NO NO NO i didn't. Right lets look at the facts that you have obviously already read ( obvious because if you hadnt read them then you shouldn't be commenting ) I HAVE A 12 YEAR OLD SON THAT PLAYS, WOW, VG, EQ 1 + 2 SWG AND A FEW OTHERS. HE SITS AT HIS PC FOR HOURS ON END SOME NIGHTS AND GETS TOP LOOT IN THESE GAMES, DUE TO SPENDING HUGE AMMOUNTS OF TIME IN GAME......LOL HE EVEN PLAYS FOOTBALL WHILE HES ON RAIDS SOMETIMES IF IT'S A BIT QUIET.This is fact, as i have stated several times...i dont mind him doing that i just would like the opurtunity myself to do it if i so choose. Or even that i wouldn't mind having to spend weeks doing a quest that asks me to kill a thousand mobs to get the same item, i would just like the opurtunity to try that's all.
Now how is that demeaning, and before you say it wasn't meant specifically for me...then dont reply to the things that i ask for, ie quotes, because if you do you are specifically replying to me.
Again Dread, i can't see why the comment "12 year old sitting at his pc for hours" is a demeaning comment? did i label them as stupid or something? did i generalise that hardcore players are like this?
NO NO NO i didn't. Right lets look at the facts that you have obviously already read ( obvious because if you hadnt read them then you shouldn't be commenting ) I HAVE A 12 YEAR OLD SON THAT PLAYS, WOW, VG, EQ 1 + 2 SWG AND A FEW OTHERS. HE SITS AT HIS PC FOR HOURS ON END SOME NIGHTS AND GETS TOP LOOT IN THESE GAMES, DUE TO SPENDING HUGE AMMOUNTS OF TIME IN GAME......LOL HE EVEN PLAYS FOOTBALL WHILE HES ON RAIDS SOMETIMES IF IT'S A BIT QUIET.This is fact, as i have stated several times...i dont mind him doing that i just would like the opurtunity myself to do it if i so choose. Or even that i wouldn't mind having to spend weeks doing a quest that asks me to kill a thousand mobs to get the same item, i would just like the opurtunity to try that's all.
Now how is that demeaning, and before you say it wasn't meant specifically for me...then dont reply to the things that i ask for, ie quotes, because if you do you are specifically replying to me.
Maybe that'll help. I'm not going to debate it with you. Calling hardcore gamers children and losers is a common insult among us casual gamers. I was pointing out that you guys were going overboard. I read your previous post already where you explained you had a 12yr old son. That's why I mentioned it. Maybe you should have mentioned that in the post where you compared hardcore gamers to a 12yr old instead of after he took offense and you used it as a tool to discredit his response.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
No, I've been a casual gamer since EQ1 began. I try my best to argue my points without belittling the other side. I'm not always successful, but both sides of this debate seem hell-bent on taking a crap on the other every time they make a post. It's just that in this instance, those on my side are looking overzelous and paranoid by going on and on about one person's response to the OP's trollishly worded thread.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
You know what, looking at what you just put your right. ive seen that type of comment thrown about so many times i should have known better. I do have a 12 year old son lol all that is true, but saying that comment without going into it more and explaining that it's true whould have come across derogatory. i didn't mean it to i meant it in a the purest sense. i just mean that as a casual gamer i wish there was more diversity to gain rewards rather than just time.
Hope there are no hard feelings Dread. sorry mate.
Never was.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Ugh... this kind of attitude... why don't all you horrible "work for your fun" people just go back to EQ and all stroke each other?
Work? If you call MMOs work you have no concept of work. MMOs are leisure.
Maybe hes not really meaning work but at least a feeling of a accomplishment? like you actually went out and did something that took some effort to acheive instead of just having it all handed to you on a platter?