Yes Rabenwolf, very true, I now do play games for instant gratification, but I see now how very wrong I was.
Thank you very much for opening my eyes. I didn’t realize games had to be work to have fun. However, you’ve turned me around in my beliefs, and I thank you for it. I now realize that my entire gaming concept, and indeed possibly my entire outlook on life, has been flawed up until now. I now believe that people should ONLY play games and live their life in our style (which is now the hardcore style) and everyone else who doesn’t play or live like us be damned because they are the “cancer” of the gaming world as you have very clearly stated in your first post.
As a side note, having two members of my family as cancer survivors, I didn’t realize how naive I was in not seeing the pain and suffering of their ordeal. I should have come to a gaming forum in order to learn just how much suffering they went through because of the way you so eloquently compared a horrendous disease to the way some people spoil our video game experience. I know you say you are not flaming anyone, and have mature responses, and how right you are! Or maybe everyone else is taking what you said the wrong way, just like my comments which seems to hurt you in my first post. I am very, very sorry for that.
In any case, thank you, thank you…a thousand thank yous for opening my eyes, and dare I say the eyes of the entire gaming community. Please enlighten us some more with the way we should all be playing these games. I look forward to your comments regarding the ways of gaming and of life.
There is often confusion about what a hardcore gamer is. The term is often used to differentiate between types of hardcore gamers by such things as the amounts of time invested playing, how competitive the player is, preference for player versus player or player versus environment, game style or gameplay preference, or even the type of computer or console equipment used. Certain hardcore gamers are sometimes inaccurately labeled as casual gamers, often derogatorily, because of this differentiation even though they prefer playing games which are designed for hardcore gamers. This is common among MMORPG players where there is a demand for many different gameplay styles (e.g., solo play, quests, PvP, raid content, crafting) within a single game but limited developer ability to deliver all of them. The most important area in its usage is in the media relating to the games industry. It is a well noted success story of Games Publisher PR, that they were so easily able to persuade games journalists into accepting -undefined- the phrases 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Equivalent pairings to polarise consumers could have ranged from 'old-school' & 'mainstream', 'elitist' & 'easy-going' to 'dedicated' & 'uninformed'. However conjecture, based on the history of changes in the games industry, would suggest the choices of casual and hardcore were not arbitrary.
Yes Rabenwolf, very true, I now do play games for instant gratification, but I see now how very wrong I was.
Thank you very much for opening my eyes. I didn’t realize games had to be work to have fun. However, you’ve turned me around in my beliefs, and I thank you for it. I now realize that my entire gaming concept, and indeed possibly my entire outlook on life, has been flawed up until now. I now believe that people should ONLY play games and live their life in our style (which is now the hardcore style) and everyone else who doesn’t play or live like us be damned because they are the “cancer” of the gaming world as you have very clearly stated in your first post.
As a side note, having two members of my family as cancer survivors, I didn’t realize how naive I was in not seeing the pain and suffering of their ordeal. I should have come to a gaming forum in order to learn just how much suffering they went through because of the way you so eloquently compared a horrendous disease to the way some people spoil our video game experience. I know you say you are not flaming anyone, and have mature responses, and how right you are! Or maybe everyone else is taking what you said the wrong way, just like my comments which seems to hurt you in my first post. I am very, very sorry for that.
In any case, thank you, thank you…a thousand thank yous for opening my eyes, and dare I say the eyes of the entire gaming community. Please enlighten us some more with the way we should all be playing these games. I look forward to your comments regarding the ways of gaming and of life.
Your ridicule is thick with sarcasm, oh yes, and your tears of bitterness are so so sweet. Fill my cup with them oh bitter sarcastic one so that i may drink of your suffering and rejoice.
This stat would increase with the amount of time you played the game. And it would directly effect your effectiveness in PvP situations.
Now lets call this stat, the Nolife stat. The more Nolife you have, the more powerful you are.
I kind of look at Resilience in WoW as the Nolife stat. Luckily they don't change things so quickly that casuals can't catch up.
Warhammer so far from what i've read seems very casual friendly. But we'll see, Mythic is known for things like Trials of Atlantis... That was the ultimate Nolife stat in the form of an artifact grind.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
Respect for casuals that try to adapt to the game. But casuals that say they just can play for half an hour every two days and want the game to adapt to them... I tell them that MMOs are not their type of game.
I'll keep this simple since logic and common sense doesn't seem to get through to a select few... or rather a select ONE. When you have to make 20 long posts against everyone else on the forum, take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. Just because you twist logic in your own head to make it seem reality, all the people disagreeing with you are reality and you need to face that. Once you go into the world of "everyone else is immature" and a "child"... eventually you need to ask yourself why everyone else seems to think otherwise.
Also your Business man story is terribly flawed and the reason why so many older folks are getting upset when a 25 year old is their manager instead of themself. Time doesn't equal results anymore. Performance = results in the real world. But honestly I'm glad you think that way because I'll work 40 hours a week and performance 4 times better than you and you'll work 60 and become disgruntled when I take the job you thought you earned.
Same goes for WAR, when you die over and over to someone will skill and hate the game because you played longer, maybe then you're wake up.
Here's my take as a self-described casual player who also enjoys PVP:
Let me compare/contrast my experiences playing Guild Wars versus WOW.
In WOW, the fact that I was a casual gamer really hurt me, both in terms of PVE and PVP. Now, it wasn't the amount of time I could put in, as some weekends I might be able to play for 10 hour marathons. It was the amount of DEDICATED time I could put in, as family and a demanding career meant I couldn't join a raid guild. So, I did most of the top instances but not enough times to get really good gear.
It was even worse in PVP, as I quit WOW back when they still had the honor rank grind. If you didn't dedicate your life to playing, there was no way you were going to make high warlord. Ever. So, I tried PVPing at lower levels only to discover that I still was vastly outgunned by twinks. I personally couldn't find a way to enjoy being a casual player and PVP at any level. It's one thing to lose to someone with more skill, it's quite another to be one-shotted and not have a chance before a match even begins.
I know a lot has changed in the past year with WOW, but I still hear very few players will ever see Black Temple, that twinks still dominate lower level battlefields, and that the top Arena teams still have a huge advantage in gear.
Now, Guild Wars was much more casual friendly. I could do a lot more solo. I could hop in with a group and knock a quest or two out in reasonable time. Gear was not the end-all and be-all, although I was able to grind out my elite armor over time without having to put up with a raiding guild. While the top levels of PVP offered stiff competition, I did pretty well in Alliance Battles and Team Arenas where I could compete with people of equivalent level to me.
If Warhammer allows me to achieve certain things over time without having to join a hardcore guild, I'll be happy. If I can at least compete in PVP to a certain degree, I'll be happy.
Respect for casuals that try to adapt to the game. But casuals that say they just can play for half an hour every two days and want the game to adapt to them... I tell them that MMOs are not their type of game.
I have absolutely no problem with the casual players who play 1 hour a day trying to obtain the best set of gear KNOWING that it could take them LONGER than the hardcore players who play 8 hours a day.
I'm completely fine with that.
But if the casual player is complaining about that, then I see a problem.
I'll keep this simple since logic and common sense doesn't seem to get through to a select few... or rather a select ONE. When you have to make 20 long posts against everyone else on the forum, take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. Just because you twist logic in your own head to make it seem reality, all the people disagreeing with you are reality and you need to face that. Once you go into the world of "everyone else is immature" and a "child"... eventually you need to ask yourself why everyone else seems to think otherwise. Also your Business man story is terribly flawed and the reason why so many older folks are getting upset when a 25 year old is their manager instead of themself. Time doesn't equal results anymore. Performance = results in the real world. But honestly I'm glad you think that way because I'll work 40 hours a week and performance 4 times better than you and you'll work 60 and become disgruntled when I take the job you thought you earned. Same goes for WAR, when you die over and over to someone will skill and hate the game because you played longer, maybe then you're wake up.
Talk about logic...
Just because 20 people disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. How do you feel about the Iraq war? Yeah...right...
It's also, his/herself.
ALTHOUGH, I agree with this one statement:
Performance = results in the real world
HOWEVER, occasionally you get the child prodigy who grows up so fast and becomes so good at what he/she does. But for the rest of the world, it usually takes time and practice to achieve good performance.
Respect for casuals that try to adapt to the game. But casuals that say they just can play for half an hour every two days and want the game to adapt to them... I tell them that MMOs are not their type of game.
Exactly. The problem is, they make a lot of noise when you suggest a different genre.
The great thing is, if your a Casual player you can play the PVE content and get some pretty rocking armour from quests. Then walk into pvp and smash the crap out of people. The RVR players can play RVR exclusively and get great armour. No matter how you play you do well in your own style and can compete. Personally I spend most of my time in PVE and PQ content.
With that said, if a PVE and one hour a dayer expects to get all his gear from PVE as quickly as a hardcore RVR and compete, I just cant except that. Slow players need to except they will progress slower. They still can compete eventually. They still can get the same gear. THey just need to play longer.
I'm 39 with kids and am a casual player. I accept that in every MMO I play there will be content that is not meant for me and I will not be able to attain because I cannot or will not devote the time and effort necissary to obtain it. In MMOs, time and effort are very key factors. The casuals in this thread (and in general in my experience) seem to consider themselves above the dedicated player and constantly make snide, demeaning and dismissive remarks about the hardcore players. Either they're losers or children. When they take offense the casual player that was just casting insults acts indignent about the tone of the responses. In my view as a casual player, time is definitely a factor and one I devote to other things. I don't make assumptions about the people that are able to devote more time to a game because I don't know their circumstances and it's none of my business. The ones that annoy me are my peers that act like they're above others and deserve the same rewards as the hardcore players even if those rewards are for time and effort spent. Get over yourselves and realize that if you were as objective and superior as you claim to be, you'd see it's just a game and it doesn't really matter. Being an ass to others does however.
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
From the information i've gathered you can easily play a couple hours a week doing random PQ's and scenarios and compete in pvp.
You might not level as fast but you will be competitive within your tier.
You can be 'hard core' with less time or 'casual' with more time.
It all depends on how you use your time in game.
...
Other ways I think of hardcore gamers:
Hardcore to me = subject matter expert. These are the guys that either know the answers or know exactly where to get them. They are someone who knows the game and is highly versed in the mechanics and inner-most workings. They may have spent time in game to learn this stuff or reading, but bottom-line... they know it.
Hardcore to me = trend setters. The people that create the FOTM's for everyone else.
Harcore to me = power levellers. They have the game figured out. They don't waste time in game when they are logged in. They get in and get stuff done.
Hardcore to me = multi-boxers. They are tired of waiting on others and want to maximize their playing time. They have done the math, worked out the bugs, put in the tech work, and they are a multi-tasking, highly efficient gamer. They don't wait for a group, they are the group.
Hardcore to me = being able to do more with less. Somebody who can take a class or item that is supposedly 'underwhelming' and hold their own or actually dominate.
Anybody can log in and stay logged in for hours a day. Are you sitting in BG queues? Are you chatting? What are you doing? Hell, I can do stuff around my house while I am logged in with WoW. Just because I've been 'running BG's all day' doesn't mean I've actually been playing non-stop. With 30 minute queue's and 15-20 minute games, that 6 hour gaming day actually equals less than half of that in real 'hardcore' or true play time.
The term casual means that something is not their primary focus or that it isn't being done formally or professionally. I think most of the folks here have stated that they are at a point in their lives where family or careers are coming first and gaming is a 'if/when I can' type of thing for them.
Power gamers NEED casual gamers. Why? Because they pay for the game to keep running. And, not only do they do that, while they are in game... they are trying to maximize their time. So, hopefully, you have a similar mindset if/when you run into one another 'ingame'.
Casual gamers NEED hardcore gamers. Why? Because it's the hardcore that get things figured out so you don't have to spend your time doing that. They are the ones who blaze trails in games. It's their work that ends up in guides or maps and such.
I'll keep this simple since logic and common sense doesn't seem to get through to a select few... or rather a select ONE. When you have to make 20 long posts against everyone else on the forum, take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. Just because you twist logic in your own head to make it seem reality, all the people disagreeing with you are reality and you need to face that. Once you go into the world of "everyone else is immature" and a "child"... eventually you need to ask yourself why everyone else seems to think otherwise. Also your Business man story is terribly flawed and the reason why so many older folks are getting upset when a 25 year old is their manager instead of themself. Time doesn't equal results anymore. Performance = results in the real world. But honestly I'm glad you think that way because I'll work 40 hours a week and performance 4 times better than you and you'll work 60 and become disgruntled when I take the job you thought you earned. Same goes for WAR, when you die over and over to someone will skill and hate the game because you played longer, maybe then you're wake up.
Talk about logic...
Just because 20 people disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. How do you feel about the Iraq war? Yeah...right...
It's also, his/herself.
ALTHOUGH, I agree with this one statement:
Performance = results in the real world
HOWEVER, occasionally you get the child prodigy who grows up so fast and becomes so good at what he/she does. But for the rest of the world, it usually takes time and practice to achieve good performance.
Please explain where I said it is a fact that it makes them wrong. I said take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. As for the war, I disagree with it like a majority of the WORLD and therefore I think that does indicate a good sign that it was a wrong. Doesn't make it fact but its probably a sign. You're just like the other guy, bending ideas into poor arguments that intelligent people here are going to see through.
It does take time and practice but what we are saying is time doesn't equal good performance, just as time doesn't (shouldn't) equal reward. If you sit there longer at your desk, you don't perform better. You perform better by increasing your skills and learning new things. Somehow hardcore people thing that if they dedicate much more time than someone else that they deserve more.
Business man 1 and 2 both have the same job. Business man 1 spends more time at work and makes more money than business man 2.
I am arguing that this statement above means NOTHING. He thinks if someone spends more time at work they make more money and deserve more. His logic is lost at what about performance, ability, and skills? People think if they dedicate more time they are better and should be rewarded more, which is horribly false.
At the next company event, the CEO announces that there will be a car race and that the winner will get a bonus. So all of the business men picked to participate line up on a cleared road. Business man 1 wins and business man 2 complains, "hey thats not fair you have an expensive sports car"!!! The business man 1 looks at the cheap minivan that Business man 2 is driving. Business man 1 states "well thats what you picked to race with".
More twisted logic. Look at Nascar, they have to have the same general car and the same general horsepower. If you have anything obviously better, you can’t race. That’s what fair is. They don’t give one person a minivan and one a sports car. I cannot believe this guy argues later that his logic isn’t flawed.
Business man 2 gets mad and says "but i have a life, i dont want to have to work more hours to get enough income to buy a sports car"! The business man 1 replies "well why are you upset that you lost then? should I have driven slowly so you won?" Business man 2 stomps his feet "of course i should had a chance, you get all the nice cars, boats, suits, its not fair! I am not having fun because you have more than me".
Again, same nonsense as above. If both people had the same general type of car and business man 2 lost, then he wouldn’t have room to complain. It was fair and he didn’t have the skills. With this logic of this person, the Olympics should be auto won by countries with money. Since we have more money, we should just pump our athletics with steroids and other drugs to make us perform better and when the other countries complain, we’ll just tell them to get more money and they can “win” too.
If I need to point out the rest of what was said I will but I think it’s pretty obvious at this point.
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Dont like it? Play a different genre. Are you serious?
Oh my that is just way too funny. I mean if I wasn't eating I would be laughing out loud. At you not with you.
Pretty sure you have it backwards. Or at least are seriously living in a separate reality. Have fun being the minority now that the people trying to actually make some money making these things know where their bread is buttered.
Phew its a good thing there really aren't tons of petty tyrants around or very few of us could have much fun. It is rather ironic that someone with such a accusatory and perhorative frame of mind describes others as cancerous. You can't get more socially cancerous that this.
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
Being a Hardcore gamer but now adopting the casual gamer stance as my GF can not keep up. I feel this game will be great for Casual and Hardcores equally. Casuals, the game will feel like you accomplished a lot in the matter of an hour or two. Hell even 30 minutes of PvP can net some great things. Hardcores will have lot's to do, If I can find a group of people that play like me, which is 50+ hours a week then we can own the server for domination which is what I plan to achieve. I want to belong to a guild of other hardcores to fly our colors everwhere the realm has to offer.
I have even gone as far as saying "It is my WoW combo breaker". That is saying a lot for me as I was a WoW addict. Now im a WAR addict
Alright guys, you're fudging on your definitions. When you're speaking of hardcore gamers in a derogatory nature they are the ones that spend enormous amounts of time in the games, have no life and race to max level and gear.
When it comes time to argue about time = reward though, suddenly hardcore doesn't equal time invested, but rather some mental state or expertise outside the game.
You're BSing yourselves. Hardcore = focused effort over large amounts of time invested. Casual = less focused effort over brief intervals of time. I know you'll counter by saying that casual players can be just as focused during their brief timeframe, but each instance of playtime has a minimum amount of prep time required. The good thing about WAR is it seems to allow the casual player to increase their focus by removing or reducing the time required ot get into meaningful playtime.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Being a Hardcore gamer but now adopting the casual gamer stance as my GF can not keep up. I feel this game will be great for Casual and Hardcores equally. Casuals, the game will feel like you accomplished a lot in the matter of an hour or two. Hell even 30 minutes of PvP can net some great things. Hardcores will have lot's to do, If I can find a group of people that play like me, which is 50+ hours a week then we can own the server for domination which is what I plan to achieve. I want to belong to a guild of other hardcores to fly our colors everwhere the realm has to offer.
I have even gone as far as saying "It is my WoW combo breaker". That is saying a lot for me as I was a WoW addict. Now im a WAR addict
Off-topic -- I hereby fully and completely, but unofficially with no legal binding whatsoever, authorize your use of PINK text due to your nick and icon.
Being a Hardcore gamer but now adopting the casual gamer stance as my GF can not keep up. I feel this game will be great for Casual and Hardcores equally. Casuals, the game will feel like you accomplished a lot in the matter of an hour or two. Hell even 30 minutes of PvP can net some great things. Hardcores will have lot's to do, If I can find a group of people that play like me, which is 50+ hours a week then we can own the server for domination which is what I plan to achieve. I want to belong to a guild of other hardcores to fly our colors everwhere the realm has to offer.
I have even gone as far as saying "It is my WoW combo breaker". That is saying a lot for me as I was a WoW addict. Now im a WAR addict
Off-topic -- I hereby fully and completely, but unofficially with no legal binding whatsoever, authorize your use of PINK text due to your nick and icon.
My thoughts exactly whence choosing. I'm a color coordinated kind of guy.
My cousin only has at most about 2 hours a night, if that. He was able to pretty much RVR and gain about 2 ranks ( lower ranks of course ) in about an hour and fifteen minutes, give or take. This was around Rank 8 or so. I can't speak for much above rank 11 so not sure, but I would guess it would still be "casual friendly".
I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life. Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?
If it’s the former, I won’t be a lasting subscriber. While I know there is a market for that type of game, it’s one I will not be playing. If it’s the later, they’ll have my money for many months to come.
I think one of the best aspects of the game is that you don't have to progress at all. Okay, maybe you should aim to get to level 7 or 8 at least but you can do that in an hour or two. Then you have these options: Today I feel like poking around with a quest or two; or Today I feel like doing some PvP/RvR. If it's the latter, you can run around to one of the easily accessible PQs (can be marked on map for you!), getting in queue for a Scenario (which all end after about 15 minutes if one side hasn't score the max points by then) or you can mosey on over yonder (not far, usually within a 2 minute run) to the local head to head open RvR going on. If you feel like PvE (primarily) just open you map. The quests are generally on the same map (unless they are a lead-in quest designed to bump you to the next set of maps.)
Gear? Well once you run a couple scenarios, you usually gain enough renown to get some good stuff (for the level) at the local RvR weapons/armor seller. If not, if you do a couple of the PvP quests you'll get enough to keep you going until you get a couple green drops. And any character (as long as they play) will add to the overall 'backbone' of their side. Winning the WAR. Sure having blue gear helps but if you look at a green and a blue, there isn't much difference.
To give an example, I had a Blue bow that some fellow was offering to sell (he had a sword-master) so i offered to buy. Once I had it, I got a 'green' bow as a renown reward (or maybe a regular quest, I don't remember) and the green ended up being +.1 DPS and .2 or .3+ to the speed. I only kept the 'blue' equipped because it had a small bonus (+6 or 7) to ballistics. As I was trying for max damage in the local Scenario the blue did a couple more points of damage. I could have done almost as much damage with the green and probably not even have noticed the difference. (The blue bow had been a lucky drop for the guy who sold it to me off some normal type mob, in case anyone was wondering).
Anyone can have fun in WAR if you like the game. That's the bottom line.
I think some people need to chill and maybe even go out and get some fresh air.
What the heck is up with people, from what ever play style, demonizing people who aren't like them and applying sweeping generalizations? What psychological need drives people to adopt such an "us vs. them" attitude about fellow gamers? Gamers, people, ...games,... fun; you know?
The successful games cater to many play styles and it seems WAR maybe does a better job at that than most.
The funny thing is that from a business perspective, casual players are pure gold for an MMORPG. They use fewer resources per dollar collected, aren't likely to blow through the content in a month and are less likely to turn rabid against a game that sours on them.
Power gamers are the vocal minority and also more likely to be organized into cross title guilds. Good companies try to cater to them as well and when they are on your side, they make the most rabid "fanboys".
The entire range is needed for a successful title. Power gamers are the "word of mouth" recruiters, but the casuals are the financial back bone.
A hardcore only title is a tiny niche title that will never be big. Unfortunately for hardcore players, that also means a lack of funding needed to keep up strong development, or even to keep a title afloat.
WoW is a huge success because it attracts masses of casuals and maintains a devouted core of power achievers. You need a broad spectrum for a successful game and the hardcore players of a title should be thankful for the financial support the casuals provide.
Comments
From wikipedia...
There is often confusion about what a hardcore gamer is. The term is often used to differentiate between types of hardcore gamers by such things as the amounts of time invested playing, how competitive the player is, preference for player versus player or player versus environment, game style or gameplay preference, or even the type of computer or console equipment used. Certain hardcore gamers are sometimes inaccurately labeled as casual gamers, often derogatorily, because of this differentiation even though they prefer playing games which are designed for hardcore gamers. This is common among MMORPG players where there is a demand for many different gameplay styles (e.g., solo play, quests, PvP, raid content, crafting) within a single game but limited developer ability to deliver all of them. The most important area in its usage is in the media relating to the games industry. It is a well noted success story of Games Publisher PR, that they were so easily able to persuade games journalists into accepting -undefined- the phrases 'hardcore' and 'casual'. Equivalent pairings to polarise consumers could have ranged from 'old-school' & 'mainstream', 'elitist' & 'easy-going' to 'dedicated' & 'uninformed'. However conjecture, based on the history of changes in the games industry, would suggest the choices of casual and hardcore were not arbitrary.
Your ridicule is thick with sarcasm, oh yes, and your tears of bitterness are so so sweet. Fill my cup with them oh bitter sarcastic one so that i may drink of your suffering and rejoice.
I think all MMOs should have a special stat.
This stat would increase with the amount of time you played the game. And it would directly effect your effectiveness in PvP situations.
Now lets call this stat, the Nolife stat. The more Nolife you have, the more powerful you are.
I kind of look at Resilience in WoW as the Nolife stat. Luckily they don't change things so quickly that casuals can't catch up.
Warhammer so far from what i've read seems very casual friendly. But we'll see, Mythic is known for things like Trials of Atlantis... That was the ultimate Nolife stat in the form of an artifact grind.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
Respect for casuals that try to adapt to the game. But casuals that say they just can play for half an hour every two days and want the game to adapt to them... I tell them that MMOs are not their type of game.
I'll keep this simple since logic and common sense doesn't seem to get through to a select few... or rather a select ONE. When you have to make 20 long posts against everyone else on the forum, take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. Just because you twist logic in your own head to make it seem reality, all the people disagreeing with you are reality and you need to face that. Once you go into the world of "everyone else is immature" and a "child"... eventually you need to ask yourself why everyone else seems to think otherwise.
Also your Business man story is terribly flawed and the reason why so many older folks are getting upset when a 25 year old is their manager instead of themself. Time doesn't equal results anymore. Performance = results in the real world. But honestly I'm glad you think that way because I'll work 40 hours a week and performance 4 times better than you and you'll work 60 and become disgruntled when I take the job you thought you earned.
Same goes for WAR, when you die over and over to someone will skill and hate the game because you played longer, maybe then you're wake up.
I am a 31 year old adult healthy dating male with a full time job and various part time jobs as a reporter (duh).
I feel I am about as AVERAGE as they come.
Garrett Fuller has a wife a home and 2 kids and a full time job as well.
He is about as busy as a normal red blooded american man will be.
Both of us progressed thru beta just fine and in our respective instances we would usually place in top 5 in points.
I have fun most every time I log on.
Here's my take as a self-described casual player who also enjoys PVP:
Let me compare/contrast my experiences playing Guild Wars versus WOW.
In WOW, the fact that I was a casual gamer really hurt me, both in terms of PVE and PVP. Now, it wasn't the amount of time I could put in, as some weekends I might be able to play for 10 hour marathons. It was the amount of DEDICATED time I could put in, as family and a demanding career meant I couldn't join a raid guild. So, I did most of the top instances but not enough times to get really good gear.
It was even worse in PVP, as I quit WOW back when they still had the honor rank grind. If you didn't dedicate your life to playing, there was no way you were going to make high warlord. Ever. So, I tried PVPing at lower levels only to discover that I still was vastly outgunned by twinks. I personally couldn't find a way to enjoy being a casual player and PVP at any level. It's one thing to lose to someone with more skill, it's quite another to be one-shotted and not have a chance before a match even begins.
I know a lot has changed in the past year with WOW, but I still hear very few players will ever see Black Temple, that twinks still dominate lower level battlefields, and that the top Arena teams still have a huge advantage in gear.
Now, Guild Wars was much more casual friendly. I could do a lot more solo. I could hop in with a group and knock a quest or two out in reasonable time. Gear was not the end-all and be-all, although I was able to grind out my elite armor over time without having to put up with a raiding guild. While the top levels of PVP offered stiff competition, I did pretty well in Alliance Battles and Team Arenas where I could compete with people of equivalent level to me.
If Warhammer allows me to achieve certain things over time without having to join a hardcore guild, I'll be happy. If I can at least compete in PVP to a certain degree, I'll be happy.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I have absolutely no problem with the casual players who play 1 hour a day trying to obtain the best set of gear KNOWING that it could take them LONGER than the hardcore players who play 8 hours a day.
I'm completely fine with that.
But if the casual player is complaining about that, then I see a problem.
Talk about logic...
Just because 20 people disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. How do you feel about the Iraq war? Yeah...right...
It's also, his/herself.
ALTHOUGH, I agree with this one statement:
Performance = results in the real world
HOWEVER, occasionally you get the child prodigy who grows up so fast and becomes so good at what he/she does. But for the rest of the world, it usually takes time and practice to achieve good performance.
Exactly. The problem is, they make a lot of noise when you suggest a different genre.
The great thing is, if your a Casual player you can play the PVE content and get some pretty rocking armour from quests. Then walk into pvp and smash the crap out of people. The RVR players can play RVR exclusively and get great armour. No matter how you play you do well in your own style and can compete. Personally I spend most of my time in PVE and PQ content.
With that said, if a PVE and one hour a dayer expects to get all his gear from PVE as quickly as a hardcore RVR and compete, I just cant except that. Slow players need to except they will progress slower. They still can compete eventually. They still can get the same gear. THey just need to play longer.
I have to ask but where do you find us thinking were above others? and where have i been rude? and sorry friend but no need to call me names, i am not an "ass" so please keep it clean.
The point us casuals have been trying to make is that we simply dont expect to recieve the same rewards as players with more time invested, we just want the opurtunity to try for them. and why can't we have multiple wys of recieving rewards? i dont complain that harcore players have anything, so why is it ok for them to complain if i recieve it?
If you can achieve the same results without the same effort then that deminishes the value of the achievement. Hard work and time investment should be rewarded. I'd like to have the same stuff as well, but I choose not to invest the time and effort to obtain them. It doesn't mean I'm a better person or more responsible and it doesn't mean that those who do are slackers or children.
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Besides the one instance I see no other remark, but you continue to argue that you're entitled to the same rewards as someone who puts in more time. You're not.
shukes33: "i wouldn't mind needing 2 weeks to kill 1000 lesser demons to get the same item that a 12 year old who sat at his pc for 10 hours in a raid and did nothing other than get lucky on an item."
Even if you have a 12yr old son, this is still a very common derogatory generalization.
Centhan the OP: This pretty much set the tone for the rest of the thread (good/bad):
"I’ve seen some, but not much on this subject. Hopefully one of you beta testers could answer it. I believe I speak for most casual players when I say that we are the group of people who don’t want to “live” a game and have it totally encompass our lives, but just play to have fun. We don’t play 24/7, but fit our game time in after playing the much more interesting game called real life.
Anyway, is WAR the type of game where you don’t stand a chance unless you play until your eyes bleed for months on end in order to obtain the most uber leet gear so you can pwn the latest noobs? Or is it the type of game where someone who has a life can come into the game to have some fun PVP action and actually contribute to the battles going on?"
Trenyt: "I class myself as a casual, what with having a life outside of my pc room"
ebonfire: "I resent that someone who games more than 30 hours a week could have anything negative to say about me.. I mean hell what are they doing to better society? Nothing! But they wear their little "I've completed more mindless tasks than anyone else" badge proudly."
"Its really the people who sit down and play 12 hours at a time that destroys the genre for everyone else. Every time some new game is released, along comes Joe McNolife who can't control his gaming habits, reaches level cap in a week, and causes the devs to reevaluate where they set the bar."
odessabo: "They assume they should have everything available to them because they have no life and those that play casually shouldnt. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it alllllll"."
This first example is good until you follow it up with a derogatory example. "besides, as a hardcore gamer, how is your experience lessened by having casuals that can actually stand up to you in a fight?
on the flip side, if me, as a casual consistantly gets rolled by a nerd in epic gear and i have no chance, then whats the point of continuing to play?"
gamerman98: "So your saying that the casual gamer should not be allowed the same thing as a so called "hardcore" gamer because he has a life that doesnt involve sitting in front of his computer 24/7. I am more of a semi-casual gamer at the moment, that dont mean i cant play as good or better than some hardcore geek who never leaves the house. Your belief is very flawed.....just wanted you to know that."
Bruticus_XI: (Good/Bad)"Casual: Damn I only have an hour and a half, I want to get these Duskwood quests done fast, at least 5 before I have to log.
Hardcore: Damn I'm bored, what am I going to do? Well, I have some Duskwood quests to finish up but, hey, I have all day...what should I do...I think I'm going to go get a soda."
"What if Businessman 2 had a wife and a mother both sick with cancer? What if he had to spend time and money taking care of them, so he couldn't afford the nicer car? This is what happens with most casuals - they have OTHER OBLIGATIONS that come before playing a GAME. Sure, when they have freetime they could choose to do something else, but if they do enjoy MMOs then they'll choose MMOs."
This isn't really a negative toward either side, but I wanted to say that in your example, Businessman 2 wouldn't get the nicer car and shouldn't expect to unless he can pay it's cost.
AAnarki: "I don't hear casuals complaining about having Real Life things, things such as children, husbands / wives, a steady job, friends. These are all good things, things which people don't often complain about. They are things we willingly sacrifice our time for. (This assumes that hardcore players don't have rich fullfilling lives with their families)
Casual players in my past experience want the 'chance' to get the same 'standard' of gear that others do. Yes it may not be 100% true to real life, but it is a GAME and such has the luxury of bending the rules a little to make it a 'fair' environment. (This assumes that everyone should be equal regardless of effort or time. This just your opinion and not the accepted model for the majority of MMOs)"
I haven't looked at the rest of the posts, but I've noticed at least a couple people state that the OP's original post is innocent and Raben has no right to speak the way he did in his initial reply. As a casual gamer I'm saying that it was derogatory and dismissive toward hardcore gamers. Raben has been a bit abrasive as well, but overall I can understand since he's fighting solo against everyone else in the thread. That's actually encouraging to me since it's usually the hardcore players on MMORPG.com that are being the asses and dumping on the casual players.
It's a common paradigm amongst MMOs that time and effort = better gear/stats/abilities. While WAR alleviates a lot of the disparity, renown will still be an advantage to the hardcore. There will be other advantages as well. That's just the way it is.
I'll finish by saying that my point was that casual players (particularly in this thread) have a tendancy to dismiss hardcore players as losers and children while speaking of themselves in noble tones. Cut it out. Argue wether effort over time should equal more rewards not wether casual players are better people than hardcore players... and vice versa Rabenwolf.
EDIT: Wow, formatting went crazy when I posted
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
From the information i've gathered you can easily play a couple hours a week doing random PQ's and scenarios and compete in pvp.
You might not level as fast but you will be competitive within your tier.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Time logged in doesn't equal hardcore or casual.
You can be 'hard core' with less time or 'casual' with more time.
It all depends on how you use your time in game.
...
Other ways I think of hardcore gamers:
Hardcore to me = subject matter expert. These are the guys that either know the answers or know exactly where to get them. They are someone who knows the game and is highly versed in the mechanics and inner-most workings. They may have spent time in game to learn this stuff or reading, but bottom-line... they know it.
Hardcore to me = trend setters. The people that create the FOTM's for everyone else.
Harcore to me = power levellers. They have the game figured out. They don't waste time in game when they are logged in. They get in and get stuff done.
Hardcore to me = multi-boxers. They are tired of waiting on others and want to maximize their playing time. They have done the math, worked out the bugs, put in the tech work, and they are a multi-tasking, highly efficient gamer. They don't wait for a group, they are the group.
Hardcore to me = being able to do more with less. Somebody who can take a class or item that is supposedly 'underwhelming' and hold their own or actually dominate.
Anybody can log in and stay logged in for hours a day. Are you sitting in BG queues? Are you chatting? What are you doing? Hell, I can do stuff around my house while I am logged in with WoW. Just because I've been 'running BG's all day' doesn't mean I've actually been playing non-stop. With 30 minute queue's and 15-20 minute games, that 6 hour gaming day actually equals less than half of that in real 'hardcore' or true play time.
The term casual means that something is not their primary focus or that it isn't being done formally or professionally. I think most of the folks here have stated that they are at a point in their lives where family or careers are coming first and gaming is a 'if/when I can' type of thing for them.
Power gamers NEED casual gamers. Why? Because they pay for the game to keep running. And, not only do they do that, while they are in game... they are trying to maximize their time. So, hopefully, you have a similar mindset if/when you run into one another 'ingame'.
Casual gamers NEED hardcore gamers. Why? Because it's the hardcore that get things figured out so you don't have to spend your time doing that. They are the ones who blaze trails in games. It's their work that ends up in guides or maps and such.
sorry, double post
Talk about logic...
Just because 20 people disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. How do you feel about the Iraq war? Yeah...right...
It's also, his/herself.
ALTHOUGH, I agree with this one statement:
Performance = results in the real world
HOWEVER, occasionally you get the child prodigy who grows up so fast and becomes so good at what he/she does. But for the rest of the world, it usually takes time and practice to achieve good performance.
Please explain where I said it is a fact that it makes them wrong. I said take it as a good sign you're probably wrong. As for the war, I disagree with it like a majority of the WORLD and therefore I think that does indicate a good sign that it was a wrong. Doesn't make it fact but its probably a sign. You're just like the other guy, bending ideas into poor arguments that intelligent people here are going to see through.
It does take time and practice but what we are saying is time doesn't equal good performance, just as time doesn't (shouldn't) equal reward. If you sit there longer at your desk, you don't perform better. You perform better by increasing your skills and learning new things. Somehow hardcore people thing that if they dedicate much more time than someone else that they deserve more.
Business man 1 and 2 both have the same job. Business man 1 spends more time at work and makes more money than business man 2.
I am arguing that this statement above means NOTHING. He thinks if someone spends more time at work they make more money and deserve more. His logic is lost at what about performance, ability, and skills? People think if they dedicate more time they are better and should be rewarded more, which is horribly false.
At the next company event, the CEO announces that there will be a car race and that the winner will get a bonus. So all of the business men picked to participate line up on a cleared road. Business man 1 wins and business man 2 complains, "hey thats not fair you have an expensive sports car"!!! The business man 1 looks at the cheap minivan that Business man 2 is driving. Business man 1 states "well thats what you picked to race with".
More twisted logic. Look at Nascar, they have to have the same general car and the same general horsepower. If you have anything obviously better, you can’t race. That’s what fair is. They don’t give one person a minivan and one a sports car. I cannot believe this guy argues later that his logic isn’t flawed.
Business man 2 gets mad and says "but i have a life, i dont want to have to work more hours to get enough income to buy a sports car"! The business man 1 replies "well why are you upset that you lost then? should I have driven slowly so you won?" Business man 2 stomps his feet "of course i should had a chance, you get all the nice cars, boats, suits, its not fair! I am not having fun because you have more than me".
Again, same nonsense as above. If both people had the same general type of car and business man 2 lost, then he wouldn’t have room to complain. It was fair and he didn’t have the skills. With this logic of this person, the Olympics should be auto won by countries with money. Since we have more money, we should just pump our athletics with steroids and other drugs to make us perform better and when the other countries complain, we’ll just tell them to get more money and they can “win” too.
If I need to point out the rest of what was said I will but I think it’s pretty obvious at this point.
This is the problem I have with casual players. They assume they should have everything available to them without working for it, and those that work for it there for have no life. The problem with this mentality is its no different than a kid crying about how "its not fair" and "i want it nowwwww".
The problem with Casual players is they want instant gratification and hate it when rpgs allow for more work = more reward. The problem is you people are playing the wrong genre and expecting the wrong things in regards to that genre.
Casual players are the cancer of the gaming industry, they help provide fun instant action games but at the same time end up causing rpgs to be dumbed down and fps's as well as some other games to be made shorter rather than drawn out.
WAR will allow you have your action, but you still have to work for what you achieve. Those who work more will achieve more.
Dont like it? Play a different genre.
Dont like it? Play a different genre. Are you serious?
Oh my that is just way too funny. I mean if I wasn't eating I would be laughing out loud. At you not with you.
Pretty sure you have it backwards. Or at least are seriously living in a separate reality. Have fun being the minority now that the people trying to actually make some money making these things know where their bread is buttered.
Phew its a good thing there really aren't tons of petty tyrants around or very few of us could have much fun. It is rather ironic that someone with such a accusatory and perhorative frame of mind describes others as cancerous. You can't get more socially cancerous that this.
Being a Hardcore gamer but now adopting the casual gamer stance as my GF can not keep up. I feel this game will be great for Casual and Hardcores equally. Casuals, the game will feel like you accomplished a lot in the matter of an hour or two. Hell even 30 minutes of PvP can net some great things. Hardcores will have lot's to do, If I can find a group of people that play like me, which is 50+ hours a week then we can own the server for domination which is what I plan to achieve. I want to belong to a guild of other hardcores to fly our colors everwhere the realm has to offer.
I have even gone as far as saying "It is my WoW combo breaker". That is saying a lot for me as I was a WoW addict. Now im a WAR addict
-----------------------
...I'm in your panties
Alright guys, you're fudging on your definitions. When you're speaking of hardcore gamers in a derogatory nature they are the ones that spend enormous amounts of time in the games, have no life and race to max level and gear.
When it comes time to argue about time = reward though, suddenly hardcore doesn't equal time invested, but rather some mental state or expertise outside the game.
You're BSing yourselves. Hardcore = focused effort over large amounts of time invested. Casual = less focused effort over brief intervals of time. I know you'll counter by saying that casual players can be just as focused during their brief timeframe, but each instance of playtime has a minimum amount of prep time required. The good thing about WAR is it seems to allow the casual player to increase their focus by removing or reducing the time required ot get into meaningful playtime.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Off-topic -- I hereby fully and completely, but unofficially with no legal binding whatsoever, authorize your use of PINK text due to your nick and icon.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Off-topic -- I hereby fully and completely, but unofficially with no legal binding whatsoever, authorize your use of PINK text due to your nick and icon.
My thoughts exactly whence choosing. I'm a color coordinated kind of guy.
-----------------------
...I'm in your panties
To the OP.
My cousin only has at most about 2 hours a night, if that. He was able to pretty much RVR and gain about 2 ranks ( lower ranks of course ) in about an hour and fifteen minutes, give or take. This was around Rank 8 or so. I can't speak for much above rank 11 so not sure, but I would guess it would still be "casual friendly".
I think one of the best aspects of the game is that you don't have to progress at all. Okay, maybe you should aim to get to level 7 or 8 at least but you can do that in an hour or two. Then you have these options: Today I feel like poking around with a quest or two; or Today I feel like doing some PvP/RvR. If it's the latter, you can run around to one of the easily accessible PQs (can be marked on map for you!), getting in queue for a Scenario (which all end after about 15 minutes if one side hasn't score the max points by then) or you can mosey on over yonder (not far, usually within a 2 minute run) to the local head to head open RvR going on. If you feel like PvE (primarily) just open you map. The quests are generally on the same map (unless they are a lead-in quest designed to bump you to the next set of maps.)
Gear? Well once you run a couple scenarios, you usually gain enough renown to get some good stuff (for the level) at the local RvR weapons/armor seller. If not, if you do a couple of the PvP quests you'll get enough to keep you going until you get a couple green drops. And any character (as long as they play) will add to the overall 'backbone' of their side. Winning the WAR. Sure having blue gear helps but if you look at a green and a blue, there isn't much difference.
To give an example, I had a Blue bow that some fellow was offering to sell (he had a sword-master) so i offered to buy. Once I had it, I got a 'green' bow as a renown reward (or maybe a regular quest, I don't remember) and the green ended up being +.1 DPS and .2 or .3+ to the speed. I only kept the 'blue' equipped because it had a small bonus (+6 or 7) to ballistics. As I was trying for max damage in the local Scenario the blue did a couple more points of damage. I could have done almost as much damage with the green and probably not even have noticed the difference. (The blue bow had been a lucky drop for the guy who sold it to me off some normal type mob, in case anyone was wondering).
Anyone can have fun in WAR if you like the game. That's the bottom line.
I think some people need to chill and maybe even go out and get some fresh air.
What the heck is up with people, from what ever play style, demonizing people who aren't like them and applying sweeping generalizations? What psychological need drives people to adopt such an "us vs. them" attitude about fellow gamers? Gamers, people, ...games,... fun; you know?
The successful games cater to many play styles and it seems WAR maybe does a better job at that than most.
The funny thing is that from a business perspective, casual players are pure gold for an MMORPG. They use fewer resources per dollar collected, aren't likely to blow through the content in a month and are less likely to turn rabid against a game that sours on them.
Power gamers are the vocal minority and also more likely to be organized into cross title guilds. Good companies try to cater to them as well and when they are on your side, they make the most rabid "fanboys".
The entire range is needed for a successful title. Power gamers are the "word of mouth" recruiters, but the casuals are the financial back bone.
A hardcore only title is a tiny niche title that will never be big. Unfortunately for hardcore players, that also means a lack of funding needed to keep up strong development, or even to keep a title afloat.
WoW is a huge success because it attracts masses of casuals and maintains a devouted core of power achievers. You need a broad spectrum for a successful game and the hardcore players of a title should be thankful for the financial support the casuals provide.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
