What I saw when I watched that video: possibilities. I can be a pirate and roam the seas. I can terrorize other ships, or other players/cities on the shores. I can be a mercenary. I can get a group of friends together and we can become assassins. I can create a guild and build a city, taking part in politics and struggles for locations, resources, and bragging rights. I can be a peaceful crafter of goods. I can be a grunt in a "big guild" and take part in initiatives as directed. I can be an explorer. I can use a sword, or a bow, or magic, and combinations as well. When I attack or heal, I can affect my friends, and enemies. This requires attention to detail, I have to aim my spells and abilities. I can't target someone and spam keys while I watch TV like WoW. IF this game runs smoothly and works, it'll be quite the sandbox. I guess people accustomed to WoW feeding them "content" in the way of time sinks and grinds might not like such freedom, or might lack the creativity to blaze their own path. But then again, this was never meant to be a mainstream MMO.
This is a quality post if i ever saw one.
You understand the potentials of a game like Darkfall to the fullest. Its no WoW themepark game with a boring endgame. Darkfall endgame will be what we make it. No Darkfall Developers that will spoonfed us with the next instance where we can get the next set of supergear.
Aye, I've been waiting for a game like this for a long time. It won't be for everyone, but for those willing to embrace the dangerous world and blaze their own paths, it could be glorious. This is not what I would call an 'entertain me' style MMO like WoW or WAR. This game requires you to take hold and carve out your place. As far as the game not taking a 'standard' development approach... well all I have to say it take a good look at what 'standard' gets us most of the time: Vanguard, Age of Conan, SWG to name a few.
Cheers guys, I will fall asleep tonight with a bit of a smile on my face.
Beta October 2008. Released before the end of 2008. Have a nice day
They're going to have a 2-3 MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two or three months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
Accepting developer hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and following a game for years of rocky development is bad enough but an incredibly short beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past. I'm not a fan of DF but I hate seeing any game fail because of idiotic planning.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
Beta October 2008. Released before the end of 2008. Have a nice day
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
Beta October 2008. Released before the end of 2008. Have a nice day
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
Accepting developer hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and following a game for years of rocky development is bad enough but an incredibly short beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
They been in closed beta since late 2007. They used professional beta testers ridding out the bugs and on and on and on.......
Beta October 2008. Released before the end of 2008. Have a nice day
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
yes it is unfortunate that you guys dont understand how the world of business works, but hey way to try to twist my words. i guess you need something to do, since you obviously cant call DF vaporware anymore.
Beta October 2008. Released before the end of 2008. Have a nice day
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
yes it is unfortunate that you guys dont understand how the world of business works, but hey way to try to twist my words. i guess you need something to do, since you obviously cant call DF vaporware anymore.
Thing is, I never called DF vaporware in the first place. The others have, but I won't make that mistake. I know DF is a better concept than Fury ever was and it has potential. And yes, I took your quote, used it for the opposite purpose--- not to spite you, but to point out that it is true in its neutral point. Neither for or against DF... but that DF is doing things from a very inexperienced approach.
I'm not going to laugh at DF, nor support DF. I work for a different industry than the computer game industry, but I know my business (and no, not retail--- even though I once worked in that industry).
As Alienovrlord mentioned, a 2 month beta is too short. WAR did a similar thing, so did AoC. However they did that for an advertisement position aside from a true Beta, they already had a year or two of steady media coverage over many different conventions as well. Darkfall has no show for it and Beta will be the first time anyone will have ever seen/touched it beyond pictures and videos outside of the development crew.
It is not that myself or Alienovrlord should know business, its Aventurine that does.
They been in closed beta since late 2007. They used professional beta testers ridding out the bugs and on and on and on....... This open beta will be a stress test. Have a nice one
Professional (aka Internal) beta-testers are not the same as having hundreds (or thousands) of gamers running through and hammering at your game engine
It's the same as the zerg in PvP. More people mean more chances to squash bugs, that's why companies sign up lots of people into their closed betas to deal with balance and economy and crafting all the other potential issues. WoW, AoC, LotRO etc all brought in external beta-testers many months before their scheduled releases. This also allowed the press a chance to see the game and post previews - which only helped the publicity of these games.
A stress test in NOT where you should be worrying about all these other issues. At that point it's your servers that are being tested. If Aventurine really thinks their Internal beta-testers have caught all the bugs in a game as complex as DF says it will be, then you people should really be worried.
We've seen this before. Companies in the past have thought they can skimp on beta-testing and push out half-finished junk. All the potential of the best game in the world doesn't matter if the company rushes it out
This isn't about knowing 'how the world of business works' (which I do BTW). It's about looking at the past and learning from it.
You're the fans of DF, you have the best chance of making sure this doesn't happen. But not if you just keep accepting everything the Devs tell you without question.
Aventurine has done such a horrible job delivering on anything so far I guess I should not be surprised how people are reacting to a in game trailer. I know you rabid fanboi's go crazy when one of the Dev's takes a dump, but lets keep some perspective here.
The game has NO concrete release date, 2008 does not cut it, the game has NO beta, well I guess if you count BOTS as a beta then it does have one, my mistake. So I believe your claim to "victory" over the "trolls" based off a game trailer is a tad bit premature.
The devs have said that nobody will have to pay any money before trying the game and I have also heard (not too sure about this one) that there won't be an NDA on the beta. They must be pretty confident that it's in good condition if they are gonna do this, in comparison the NDA on WAR and AoC endgame has never been lifted and there's no free trial. I'm not bashing these 2 games it's just for comparison.
Wow. This is amazing. A poorly and boring scripted gameplay video is made, and the fanbois go ape-nuts. Game's right around the corner, right? The gameplay actually looks worse than Fury, and we all know how that went.
BTW, a "gameplay" video doesn't lift it from vapourware status. Only a release can do that, sorry.
They must be pretty confident that it's in good condition if they are gonna do this, in comparison the NDA on WAR and AoC endgame has never been lifted and there's no free trial. I'm not bashing these 2 games it's just for comparison.
Warhammer's Online's NDA was lifted a couple of weeks ago.
Wow. This is amazing. A poorly and boring scripted gameplay video is made, and the fanbois go ape-nuts. Game's right around the corner, right? The gameplay actually looks worse than Fury, and we all know how that went.
The fanboys are happy because:
1) They claim "victory" over the vaporware trolls. Though we knew something was in development, this is "solid" proof.
2) They know the video itself was crappy (honestly you could only love that trailer if you are blinded by excitement for Darkfall's ideas and what it could deliver.) So, they're just excited that the game is coming, and of course they believe it'll be everything they've dreamed about.
I am at the point that I'll just sat back and watch what happens. I've been following the game for years now and hope as much as any other fan that it works well. I obviously have my doubts, but IMHO any gamer that doesn't view ANY upcoming MMO as a piece of crap until proven otherwise is naive.
As far as the beta cycle, the devs claim it has been under internal testing for quite some time now, and they have the ability to run large-scale simulations with bots. My only worry about that is variances in bandwidth. I seriously hope they have tools advanced enough to simulate connections of various speeds, etc. But anyone saying they should learn by example from other game's beta tests... sorry but I "lol" in your face. Past experience has shown us two things:
1) Games with much shorter dev cycles (this seems to be a big complaint about DF, its taken TOO LONG) have launched as utter chunks of dung.
2) Games with relatively long beta cycles have launched as utter chunks of dung.
My point is, I don't think there have exactly been enough successful MMO launches to say any one formula is the best. As a software dev for over 15 years now, I'll go ahead and admit the internal testing combined with a short public stress test is... interesting. However, it IS possible that the team may have pulled it off. I've certainly pulled my share of miracles over the years when you geta team that is firing on all cylinders. Time will tell...
I say this because I notice Mythic and Adventurine have quite a bit in common. First off, they don't lie to their playerbase. From their mouth, what's said is said, and what's done is done; if there are changes in-between, it will be known by us. Second, they don't aim high then shoot low; they set their goals in a high place and attempt to cram a lot into a game, yet they still try to shoot even higher than that. Third, they aren't afraid to take something out if it doesn't meet their highest standards; by this, I mean very very high standards. So in all honesty, given there has been a beta since late last year, I strongly believe we would be informed by Adventurine if things weren't looking good. They won't lie to us... If the game was going to take a nose-dive, we would have heard about it already. The latest from them is that everything is actually going as scheduled this time. That's not to say they won't do another push back; because if they do, it probably will not be a very large one at all. Look at the trend here... Good business ethics is a must these days, win - lose - or draw. Unfortunately, there are still a crap-ton of companies who still don't get the point, leading players to think all companies are the same. Sounds kind of like a bad relationship doesn't it? Does not one become bitter after being boned by the opposite? That's just my opinion--- Take it with a grain of salt if you wish.
You must be living in a parallel universe then.
Aventurine has broken it's promises quite a few times, most remarkable with promised launching dates, and by watching that video is still far from release day as a polished product.
Wow. This is amazing. A poorly and boring scripted gameplay video is made, and the fanbois go ape-nuts. Game's right around the corner, right? The gameplay actually looks worse than Fury, and we all know how that went.
The fanboys are happy because:
1) They claim "victory" over the vaporware trolls. Though we knew something was in development, this is "solid" proof.
2) They know the video itself was crappy (honestly you could only love that trailer if you are blinded by excitement for Darkfall's ideas and what it could deliver.) So, they're just excited that the game is coming, and of course they believe it'll be everything they've dreamed about.
We'll see.
the vid was good some imperfections at least shows they didnt fake anything
What I do not get is that its ONE video and everyone has gone crazy. Granted its a great video and does showcase a lot of the aspects of the game but it is still a video.
I can recall great videos of Age of Conan. "But this isn't Funcom" you say.
I can recall great videos of Vanguard. "But this isn't SOE" you say.
I can recall great videos of ___________. "But this will be different" you say.
First off, SOE didn't make Vanguard, Sigil did. And they're the ones who have been slaving away at the game getting it back up to good standards, which it has finally reached. SOE just threw some money at them and then butchered their team a bit.
Age of Conan, even a blind man could see exactly where that game was going. You just had to read between the lines.
If you don't see the difference between a company like Aventurine and SOE... then I really think you need some readjustments. The closest company to Aventurine out now is probably Mythic.
What I do not get is that its ONE video and everyone has gone crazy. Granted its a great video and does showcase a lot of the aspects of the game but it is still a video.
I can recall great videos of Age of Conan. "But this isn't Funcom" you say.
I can recall great videos of Vanguard. "But this isn't SOE" you say.
I can recall great videos of ___________. "But this will be different" you say.
First off, SOE didn't make Vanguard, Sigil did. And they're the ones who have been slaving away at the game getting it back up to good standards, which it has finally reached. SOE just threw some money at them and then butchered their team a bit.
Age of Conan, even a blind man could see exactly where that game was going. You just had to read between the lines.
If you don't see the difference between a company like Aventurine and SOE... then I really think you need some readjustments. The closest company to Aventurine out now is probably Mythic.
That wasn't my point. I do not care what the game is and what the company is...if all I have to go on is a video, it is tough for me, a consumer, to warrant spending my time, energy and money on something that I am unsure of. I understand people's excitement but it seems that they all have forgotten recent history.
As far as Age of Conan goes, I attended TWO behind the scene's meetings with the devs and staff at Dragon*Con and yes I was blinded. Why? Because I was a huge fan and believed what they said. How is that any different than this situation?
How is Aventurine like Mythic? What sets them apart? Why should I trust them more than Blizzard, Turbine, Mythic or whoever? That's my point - and the problem is, that for someone like me to get a serious and straight up answer because I have genuine interest in the game, I have to drudge through all of the fanboi vs. troll crap and all I am looking for is some real answers; and all I have read in this forum today has been us vs. them, fanboi vs. troll, back and forth bitchfest and for a community that is so pleased with the game, its hard for me to believe that one (who is on the fence about playing) cannot get any real information.
They are similar to Mythic, not copies. The biggest thing they have in common was that Mythic was a very small and unknown company, filled with amatures, and ended up making one of the best MMOs of the first generation, and the best PvP MMO to date. They are very straightforward too. That's about where the similarities end though.
And I'm sure that the video isn't ALL we're going to have to go on when we buy, this is just the begining. From an update earlier this year, Tasos said he will never forced anyone to have pre-orders, or buy the game before they try it. (probably a direct shot at AoC)
Whats going to happen when Darkfall fails to deliver more than the 30 people on screen seen in the video when the game launches?
Both games got hyped up too much and will ultimately be a let down in some major area's. Good business ethics like Mythic and DF does such as promising the earth in podcasts and interviews is only setting anyone interested up for a big fail, I mean fall.
Ok Im pretty sure this has been answerd already But... The video is out and it's pretty f'n sweet. The Beta is in Oct. 08, Release you are correct about the official statement says it will be out near the end of 08 But no specific dare.
Secondly it's already been stated that Aventurine wants you to try the game free of charge before spending any money on it. No pre-order to get into beta ect. Beta starts Oct. 08 so I would sign up and atleast try it,.
Comments
This is a quality post if i ever saw one.
You understand the potentials of a game like Darkfall to the fullest. Its no WoW themepark game with a boring endgame. Darkfall endgame will be what we make it. No Darkfall Developers that will spoonfed us with the next instance where we can get the next set of supergear.
Well done and
Have a nice one
Aye, I've been waiting for a game like this for a long time. It won't be for everyone, but for those willing to embrace the dangerous world and blaze their own paths, it could be glorious. This is not what I would call an 'entertain me' style MMO like WoW or WAR. This game requires you to take hold and carve out your place. As far as the game not taking a 'standard' development approach... well all I have to say it take a good look at what 'standard' gets us most of the time: Vanguard, Age of Conan, SWG to name a few.
Cheers guys, I will fall asleep tonight with a bit of a smile on my face.
They're going to have a 2-3 MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two or three months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
Accepting developer hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and following a game for years of rocky development is bad enough but an incredibly short beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past. I'm not a fan of DF but I hate seeing any game fail because of idiotic planning.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
Accepting developer hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and following a game for years of rocky development is bad enough but an incredibly short beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
They been in closed beta since late 2007. They used professional beta testers ridding out the bugs and on and on and on.......
This open beta will be a stress test.
Have a nice one
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
yes it is unfortunate that you guys dont understand how the world of business works, but hey way to try to twist my words. i guess you need something to do, since you obviously cant call DF vaporware anymore.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
They're going to have a TWO MONTH beta-test?????? I choked when I saw 'Coming in 2008' at the end of those videos.
Darkfall has been making claims about all sorts of very innovative gameplay elements but innovation is difficult and risky. They really think they can sufficiently test all those innovative gameplay mechanics with real world testers in only two months?
Every DF fan out there should be demanding the release date be pushed back. You've already waited this long. No one can actually believe a two month beta-test would be enough time to work out any significant bugs/balance in any game.
It's one thing to accept eveloper hype without any proof apart from vids and screenshots and follow a game for years of rocky development but a two month beta test for a MMORPG should push the boundary of disbelief too far for anybody.
A game doesn't have to be vaporware to have big flashing warning signs. DF fans should be shouting at the Devs not to push out the game before it's ready. We've seen that happen way too often in the past.
In the end, we're not bagging on the game... its the zealotry. Not because we're jealous (i.e, ego-contesting), but because WE don't understand what in anyone's sane mind would cause a person to go religious (deeply-devoted) to an "idea" that has no wide-ranged media coverage or solid game publishing backing.
Not to mention the willingness to believe that a game can be launched with such a minimal beta-test. It flies in face of every lesson ever learned in the history of MMORPG developement.
LOL. Exactly. As egg mentioned:
"Unfortunatly the development of this game has baffled many people because it did not follow standard MMO development like we saw with AoC and WAR etc with communication with fans. So this has left people wondering wtf and how can a company act like this."
yes it is unfortunate that you guys dont understand how the world of business works, but hey way to try to twist my words. i guess you need something to do, since you obviously cant call DF vaporware anymore.
Thing is, I never called DF vaporware in the first place. The others have, but I won't make that mistake. I know DF is a better concept than Fury ever was and it has potential. And yes, I took your quote, used it for the opposite purpose--- not to spite you, but to point out that it is true in its neutral point. Neither for or against DF... but that DF is doing things from a very inexperienced approach.
I'm not going to laugh at DF, nor support DF. I work for a different industry than the computer game industry, but I know my business (and no, not retail--- even though I once worked in that industry).
As Alienovrlord mentioned, a 2 month beta is too short. WAR did a similar thing, so did AoC. However they did that for an advertisement position aside from a true Beta, they already had a year or two of steady media coverage over many different conventions as well. Darkfall has no show for it and Beta will be the first time anyone will have ever seen/touched it beyond pictures and videos outside of the development crew.
It is not that myself or Alienovrlord should know business, its Aventurine that does.
Professional (aka Internal) beta-testers are not the same as having hundreds (or thousands) of gamers running through and hammering at your game engine
It's the same as the zerg in PvP. More people mean more chances to squash bugs, that's why companies sign up lots of people into their closed betas to deal with balance and economy and crafting all the other potential issues. WoW, AoC, LotRO etc all brought in external beta-testers many months before their scheduled releases. This also allowed the press a chance to see the game and post previews - which only helped the publicity of these games.
A stress test in NOT where you should be worrying about all these other issues. At that point it's your servers that are being tested. If Aventurine really thinks their Internal beta-testers have caught all the bugs in a game as complex as DF says it will be, then you people should really be worried.
We've seen this before. Companies in the past have thought they can skimp on beta-testing and push out half-finished junk. All the potential of the best game in the world doesn't matter if the company rushes it out
This isn't about knowing 'how the world of business works' (which I do BTW). It's about looking at the past and learning from it.
You're the fans of DF, you have the best chance of making sure this doesn't happen. But not if you just keep accepting everything the Devs tell you without question.
Aventurine has done such a horrible job delivering on anything so far I guess I should not be surprised how people are reacting to a in game trailer. I know you rabid fanboi's go crazy when one of the Dev's takes a dump, but lets keep some perspective here.
The game has NO concrete release date, 2008 does not cut it, the game has NO beta, well I guess if you count BOTS as a beta then it does have one, my mistake. So I believe your claim to "victory" over the "trolls" based off a game trailer is a tad bit premature.
The devs have said that nobody will have to pay any money before trying the game and I have also heard (not too sure about this one) that there won't be an NDA on the beta. They must be pretty confident that it's in good condition if they are gonna do this, in comparison the NDA on WAR and AoC endgame has never been lifted and there's no free trial. I'm not bashing these 2 games it's just for comparison.
Wow. This is amazing. A poorly and boring scripted gameplay video is made, and the fanbois go ape-nuts. Game's right around the corner, right? The gameplay actually looks worse than Fury, and we all know how that went.
BTW, a "gameplay" video doesn't lift it from vapourware status. Only a release can do that, sorry.
Warhammer's Online's NDA was lifted a couple of weeks ago.
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=192
But you make a good point. Any game that keeps their NDA in place up to launch should be regarded with extreme suspicion.
Again, it's just a lesson learned by looking at the past.
The fanboys are happy because:
1) They claim "victory" over the vaporware trolls. Though we knew something was in development, this is "solid" proof.
2) They know the video itself was crappy (honestly you could only love that trailer if you are blinded by excitement for Darkfall's ideas and what it could deliver.) So, they're just excited that the game is coming, and of course they believe it'll be everything they've dreamed about.
We'll see.
I am at the point that I'll just sat back and watch what happens. I've been following the game for years now and hope as much as any other fan that it works well. I obviously have my doubts, but IMHO any gamer that doesn't view ANY upcoming MMO as a piece of crap until proven otherwise is naive.
As far as the beta cycle, the devs claim it has been under internal testing for quite some time now, and they have the ability to run large-scale simulations with bots. My only worry about that is variances in bandwidth. I seriously hope they have tools advanced enough to simulate connections of various speeds, etc. But anyone saying they should learn by example from other game's beta tests... sorry but I "lol" in your face. Past experience has shown us two things:
1) Games with much shorter dev cycles (this seems to be a big complaint about DF, its taken TOO LONG) have launched as utter chunks of dung.
2) Games with relatively long beta cycles have launched as utter chunks of dung.
My point is, I don't think there have exactly been enough successful MMO launches to say any one formula is the best. As a software dev for over 15 years now, I'll go ahead and admit the internal testing combined with a short public stress test is... interesting. However, it IS possible that the team may have pulled it off. I've certainly pulled my share of miracles over the years when you geta team that is firing on all cylinders. Time will tell...
You must be living in a parallel universe then.
Aventurine has broken it's promises quite a few times, most remarkable with promised launching dates, and by watching that video is still far from release day as a polished product.
its need animation work so what that can be done anytime. as long as its playable and has the features im happy..
to bad they didnt show us max settigns it was only medium mostly : (
The fanboys are happy because:
1) They claim "victory" over the vaporware trolls. Though we knew something was in development, this is "solid" proof.
2) They know the video itself was crappy (honestly you could only love that trailer if you are blinded by excitement for Darkfall's ideas and what it could deliver.) So, they're just excited that the game is coming, and of course they believe it'll be everything they've dreamed about.
We'll see.
the vid was good some imperfections at least shows they didnt fake anything
First off, SOE didn't make Vanguard, Sigil did. And they're the ones who have been slaving away at the game getting it back up to good standards, which it has finally reached. SOE just threw some money at them and then butchered their team a bit.
Age of Conan, even a blind man could see exactly where that game was going. You just had to read between the lines.
If you don't see the difference between a company like Aventurine and SOE... then I really think you need some readjustments. The closest company to Aventurine out now is probably Mythic.
Darkfall Travelogues!
First off, SOE didn't make Vanguard, Sigil did. And they're the ones who have been slaving away at the game getting it back up to good standards, which it has finally reached. SOE just threw some money at them and then butchered their team a bit.
Age of Conan, even a blind man could see exactly where that game was going. You just had to read between the lines.
If you don't see the difference between a company like Aventurine and SOE... then I really think you need some readjustments. The closest company to Aventurine out now is probably Mythic.
That wasn't my point. I do not care what the game is and what the company is...if all I have to go on is a video, it is tough for me, a consumer, to warrant spending my time, energy and money on something that I am unsure of. I understand people's excitement but it seems that they all have forgotten recent history.
As far as Age of Conan goes, I attended TWO behind the scene's meetings with the devs and staff at Dragon*Con and yes I was blinded. Why? Because I was a huge fan and believed what they said. How is that any different than this situation?
How is Aventurine like Mythic? What sets them apart? Why should I trust them more than Blizzard, Turbine, Mythic or whoever? That's my point - and the problem is, that for someone like me to get a serious and straight up answer because I have genuine interest in the game, I have to drudge through all of the fanboi vs. troll crap and all I am looking for is some real answers; and all I have read in this forum today has been us vs. them, fanboi vs. troll, back and forth bitchfest and for a community that is so pleased with the game, its hard for me to believe that one (who is on the fence about playing) cannot get any real information.
They are similar to Mythic, not copies. The biggest thing they have in common was that Mythic was a very small and unknown company, filled with amatures, and ended up making one of the best MMOs of the first generation, and the best PvP MMO to date. They are very straightforward too. That's about where the similarities end though.
And I'm sure that the video isn't ALL we're going to have to go on when we buy, this is just the begining. From an update earlier this year, Tasos said he will never forced anyone to have pre-orders, or buy the game before they try it. (probably a direct shot at AoC)
Darkfall Travelogues!
ha, this game looks great. the naysayers will eat their words once they buy a copy of the game.
Whats going to happen when Darkfall fails to deliver more than the 30 people on screen seen in the video when the game launches?
Both games got hyped up too much and will ultimately be a let down in some major area's. Good business ethics like Mythic and DF does such as promising the earth in podcasts and interviews is only setting anyone interested up for a big fail, I mean fall.
Ok Im pretty sure this has been answerd already But... The video is out and it's pretty f'n sweet. The Beta is in Oct. 08, Release you are correct about the official statement says it will be out near the end of 08 But no specific dare.
You can find real answers here
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/index.php
Secondly it's already been stated that Aventurine wants you to try the game free of charge before spending any money on it. No pre-order to get into beta ect. Beta starts Oct. 08 so I would sign up and atleast try it,.