Throwing free time at an MMO does not make it harder or more hardcore. That fossil of an MMO concept was abandoned when people realised that grinding does not equal challenge and it certainly does not equal fun.
Crafted scripted raids? I thought you were talking about LOTRO's quest system for a minute. No offense, but both WAR and WoWs raids are pretty much similar, tank and spank. Its how mmo's play, and I trully don't see anything wrong with that. What else would you want? They are called tanks for a reason, are they not?
This is a clear example of somebody that speaks of things he read, instead of things he experienced. People with your mentality are the reason guilds never gone past Heidan or Thaddeus in the classic WoW Naxxramas dungeons.
Really? Do you even know what guild I was in in WoW at that time? Thats what I thought. We cleared Naxx easily, but it wasn't fun by any means. I don't speak of things I read because I am playing pretty much every MMO out there(that I enjoy enough). I have game accounts for WAR, WoW, LOTRO(even thought it was recently canceled), DaoC and EQ2. On top of that i'm in several betas that people would die to be in. So what is my mentality, please tell me. Because you seem to know my type so well, correct? But before you do, remeber I'm the one testing your games you play. I'm the one running through those raid encounters with developers fine tuning the crap so you can play it bug-free. I'm the fuckin tank for christ sake, but I shouldn't know right? All i got for you is .........................................................................................
Crafted scripted raids? I thought you were talking about LOTRO's quest system for a minute. No offense, but both WAR and WoWs raids are pretty much similar, tank and spank. Its how mmo's play, and I trully don't see anything wrong with that. What else would you want? They are called tanks for a reason, are they not?
This is a clear example of somebody that speaks of things he read, instead of things he experienced. People with your mentality are the reason guilds never gone past Heidan or Thaddeus in the classic WoW Naxxramas dungeons.
Really? Do you even know what guild I was in in WoW at that time? Thats what I thought. We cleared Naxx easily, but it wasn't fun by any means. I don't speak of things I read because I am playing pretty much every MMO out there(that I enjoy enough). I have game accounts for WAR, WoW, LOTRO(even thought it was recently canceled), DaoC and EQ2. On top of that i'm in several betas that people would die to be in. So what is my mentality, please tell me. Because you seem to know my type so well, correct? But before you do, remeber I'm the one testing your games you play. I'm the one running through those raid encounters with developers fine tuning the crap so you can play it bug-free. I'm the fuckin tank for christ sake, but I shouldn't know right? All i got for you is .........................................................................................
Actually you're a forum nobody, just like me. Taking what you said at face value I do indeed question whether you have first hand experience of what you're talking about. And looking at the way you excibit your "accolades" as proof of worth, I'm more inclined to believe my original statement. You've read stuff, maybe seen a couple videos, but first hand experience? No. Not really.
Yesterday we downed Lord Slaurith in Bastion for the first time after hours of wiping ...
It felt ... epic! (Though some of your guilds probably consider him peanuts now) and I had a real sense of accomplishment when we finally got that s*cker down.
Also really enjoyed scouting out the different world boss / lairs and I was really impressed by how they were sneakily hidden away in the t4 zones; behind waterfalls and in hidden caves, etc.
Those who think WAR doesn' t have any challenging or immersive group PVE are clueless.
After the kill we jumped in the RVR action in Praag to celebrate our victory by bathing in Order blood
There are bosses still not killed in WAR Every boss has been killed in WOTLK by the good raiding guilds (including the 25man ones, 25man KT, Malygos and Sart). And I can tell you for a fact that Malygos 25 man is easier than any sunwell fight, and is easier even than bosses in Lost Vale in WAR (Lost Vale isn't even the hardest instance in WAR) WAR pve > WoW pve in terms of challenge now
And there are like 10M more players playing WOW, including multiple guilds who are PAID to raid endgame and who had these raids on Farm for 6 months in beta.
You can't compare WOW to Warhammer simply because Warhammer never had an open beta for endgame (and it shows) and doesn't have guilds who are paid to get world first kills.
As far as easier then Sunwell. Yes.. Naxx is the introductory raid, it is supposed to be easy. You are comparing it to Sunwell (last raid in BC) when in fact, you should be comparing it to Kaz (first raid in BC).
None of this matters. WOW had almost 80% of its servers in queue last night. WOW has now added 22 servers in the last two weeks. Warhammer is failing badly.. the biggest request from players is to merge servers.
But please, keep posting these kind of threads just like the people in the AOC forums do and declare 'your' game better than WOW.
Yesterday we downed Lord Slaurith in Bastion for the first time after hours of wiping ... It felt ... epic! (Though some of your guilds probably consider him peanuts now) and I had a real sense of accomplishment when we finally got that s*cker down. Also really enjoyed scouting out the different world boss / lairs and I was really impressed by how they were sneakily hidden away in the t4 zones; behind waterfalls and in hidden caves, etc. Those who think WAR doesn' t have any challenging or immersive group PVE are clueless. After the kill we jumped in the RVR action in Praag to celebrate our victory by bathing in Order blood
Grtz, it must have been difficult to find a few lads in the same place on those fixed "medium" populated War servers. By yesterday it must have been between 08.00PM and 10.00 PM then.
-------
OP: even posting such obvious nonsens is proof of what every War player stands for:
"...boredom is an art form for War players..."
and ".... envy is their motive...."
No War didn't kill Wow. And wishfull postings on MMORPG-wowhate.com doesn't help either.
It's fun how Mark Jacobs told Blizzard how the gloves would come of, funny way of showing it by neglecting Europe when signing that deal with GOA. I will never buy another game from them since they are content with giving europe the longest finger of the hand, over and over again.
Mark Jacobs told us to vote with our wallets, and that they didn't need any forums. Yea, smart move.
It's just the same with WAR Altdorf was under siege within a week of release which means they've seen just about everything this game has to offer.
This just shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Putting a capital under siege is just a basic requirement to be able to even access the end content. They didn't go much further than killing some vendors and setting a few awnings on fire before being pushed out.
That's like saying completing atunement quests for Kharazan is the end of TBC endgame and that there is nothing whatsoever beyond.
Wow is far from dead. I would actually say it is on it's top right now.
I agree that the PvE is too easy, but I think it is too easy in WAR too.
And I don't see WAR have more players than Wow ever. If it is a better game is up to every person to judge, the only better things anyone ever can agree on is technical things that can be measured, everything else is just a matter of taste.
WAR's PvE is the easiest thing to exist on the mmo market. While WoW PvE is easy, theirs still a little more challenge than WAR offers from what ive seen.
I played both games from release and it's about the same regarding solo PvE and instances.
Public Quests are challenging though - more than anything in WoW's open world.
What many people don't realize is that PQs have a naturally scalable difficulty - depending on the number of players participating. Sure if you do them with a zerg they're easy... but you'll get pittance for rewards, both in influence and chance to drop. If you do them in smaller groups you will get much better rewards but at higher risk and level of challenge.
It seems that many are still unable to look past the old models... PQs and large higher tier instances all can take variable number of players (it's not just 5-man, 10-man or whatever). The game is as difficult and rewarding as you make it. Go 3-man PQs as I do when I'm in the mood and tell me how easymode PvE is.
The biggest issue WAR is facing is not the gameplay itself, but the heavy dependance on a full server in order to have fun. I can attest that RvR in T4 on medium or lower servers is a borefest. Playing on a full server is another ballgame entirely. So the OP statement that WAR is a better game is very conditional.
It assumes somebody is playing on a full server.
It assumes people are mostly RvRing (quite understandably, I don't see why somebody would pick WAR mainly for the PvE).
If either of those two conditions are not met, people are better off in WoW.
For me WoW was just alot better when you could actually see the players that made a real effort and commitment in the game by the gear they wore in major cities.
TBC gave gear to anyone that could field a 2v2 arena team.
Heroics that gave gear comparable to tier 5 and 6 with only a month or so of farming.
You can't even tell who puts the time in to WoW anymore.
Players are rewarded for sucking in WoW now.
Back before TBC if you blew at pvp you didn't hit rank 14 and if you sucked at raiding you were stuck in MC and the first two bosses in BWL forever while the good players had AQ and Naxx gear on.
You stood out if you were a good player that actually put the time into the game.
Now everyone will kill arthus in a 10 man raid and walk around in gear only 1 tier level lower than the elite players.... wtf is that all about. I'm glad I quit a while ago.
Imo if you suck you should be in blues and BOE AH epics while the players that invest more time and skill sit in Gear 3-4 tiers above grandma and little timmy.
WoW was fun Pre TBC now its just terribly lame... for me anyway.
I'm still having more fun in WAR PvP than I ever did in WOW simply because of the large scale fights and keep sieges. I don't think 1 PvP zone is really going to save WoW PvP and people will just keep playing the same old battlegrounds.
Have you even tried WotLK's Lake Wintergrasp or the new Strand ? The first time I entered the fortress of LW I was speechless. These are pure wargames m8. Pure wargames. The castle and multiple walls of Lake Wintergrasp alone are as big as the complete Warsong Gulch battlefield. Multiple walls. Multiple gates. Unbelievable. That zone is h u g e . And these walls and gates fall. The infantry is running behind the tanks. The artillery shreds you to pieces. First experience this and then come back with your personal comments please. Because I 've never seen anything like it in an MMORPG. Large scale and keep sieges? I don't think you can even compare it. It's no RvR !!!, but as PvP, the new zones/BG in WotLK are really unmatched. So unless you're a Wow hater, I would certainly give it a try... these are not the usual capture the flag things... far from.
<Mod edit>, I don't really want to do it in one zone where it doesn't affect anything but more PvE and gear. I want non-gear centric PvP progression. Has there been hundreds of players clashing yet? I did a fortress raid and loved it, definitely one of the best experiences to date in PvP. RvR is way better than anything item centric that you can come up with. What is the main thing the RvR zone gives? Items? More PvE? WOW will never progress from a PvE centric game to a PvP one simply because everything is centred only around items and personal progression.
Comments
Throwing free time at an MMO does not make it harder or more hardcore. That fossil of an MMO concept was abandoned when people realised that grinding does not equal challenge and it certainly does not equal fun.
Crafted scripted raids? I thought you were talking about LOTRO's quest system for a minute. No offense, but both WAR and WoWs raids are pretty much similar, tank and spank. Its how mmo's play, and I trully don't see anything wrong with that. What else would you want? They are called tanks for a reason, are they not?
This is a clear example of somebody that speaks of things he read, instead of things he experienced. People with your mentality are the reason guilds never gone past Heidan or Thaddeus in the classic WoW Naxxramas dungeons.
Really? Do you even know what guild I was in in WoW at that time? Thats what I thought. We cleared Naxx easily, but it wasn't fun by any means. I don't speak of things I read because I am playing pretty much every MMO out there(that I enjoy enough). I have game accounts for WAR, WoW, LOTRO(even thought it was recently canceled), DaoC and EQ2. On top of that i'm in several betas that people would die to be in. So what is my mentality, please tell me. Because you seem to know my type so well, correct? But before you do, remeber I'm the one testing your games you play. I'm the one running through those raid encounters with developers fine tuning the crap so you can play it bug-free. I'm the fuckin tank for christ sake, but I shouldn't know right? All i got for you is .........................................................................................
Crafted scripted raids? I thought you were talking about LOTRO's quest system for a minute. No offense, but both WAR and WoWs raids are pretty much similar, tank and spank. Its how mmo's play, and I trully don't see anything wrong with that. What else would you want? They are called tanks for a reason, are they not?
This is a clear example of somebody that speaks of things he read, instead of things he experienced. People with your mentality are the reason guilds never gone past Heidan or Thaddeus in the classic WoW Naxxramas dungeons.
Really? Do you even know what guild I was in in WoW at that time? Thats what I thought. We cleared Naxx easily, but it wasn't fun by any means. I don't speak of things I read because I am playing pretty much every MMO out there(that I enjoy enough). I have game accounts for WAR, WoW, LOTRO(even thought it was recently canceled), DaoC and EQ2. On top of that i'm in several betas that people would die to be in. So what is my mentality, please tell me. Because you seem to know my type so well, correct? But before you do, remeber I'm the one testing your games you play. I'm the one running through those raid encounters with developers fine tuning the crap so you can play it bug-free. I'm the fuckin tank for christ sake, but I shouldn't know right? All i got for you is .........................................................................................
Actually you're a forum nobody, just like me. Taking what you said at face value I do indeed question whether you have first hand experience of what you're talking about. And looking at the way you excibit your "accolades" as proof of worth, I'm more inclined to believe my original statement. You've read stuff, maybe seen a couple videos, but first hand experience? No. Not really.
WoW is to easy and war failed in EU.
Facts.
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
Yesterday we downed Lord Slaurith in Bastion for the first time after hours of wiping ...
It felt ... epic! (Though some of your guilds probably consider him peanuts now) and I had a real sense of accomplishment when we finally got that s*cker down.
Also really enjoyed scouting out the different world boss / lairs and I was really impressed by how they were sneakily hidden away in the t4 zones; behind waterfalls and in hidden caves, etc.
Those who think WAR doesn' t have any challenging or immersive group PVE are clueless.
After the kill we jumped in the RVR action in Praag to celebrate our victory by bathing in Order blood
My brand new bloggity blog.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONLY HELLO KITTY WILL KILL WOW NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Could the wow killer threads have all been wrong? Wow comitted suicide?
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
And there are like 10M more players playing WOW, including multiple guilds who are PAID to raid endgame and who had these raids on Farm for 6 months in beta.
You can't compare WOW to Warhammer simply because Warhammer never had an open beta for endgame (and it shows) and doesn't have guilds who are paid to get world first kills.
As far as easier then Sunwell. Yes.. Naxx is the introductory raid, it is supposed to be easy. You are comparing it to Sunwell (last raid in BC) when in fact, you should be comparing it to Kaz (first raid in BC).
None of this matters. WOW had almost 80% of its servers in queue last night. WOW has now added 22 servers in the last two weeks. Warhammer is failing badly.. the biggest request from players is to merge servers.
But please, keep posting these kind of threads just like the people in the AOC forums do and declare 'your' game better than WOW.
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
What's your point?
I don't sit around and wait for a game to come out for years.
I started looking into war in Aug 08... played it for a bit and got bored, why would i be disappointed.
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
What's your point?
I don't sit around and wait for a game to come out for years.
I started looking into war in Aug 08... played it for a bit and got bored, why would i be disappointed.
I was talking about Darkfall, but never mind
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
What's your point?
I don't sit around and wait for a game to come out for years.
I started looking into war in Aug 08... played it for a bit and got bored, why would i be disappointed.
I was talking about Darkfall, but never mind
I started looking into darkfall a week ago.. don't comment on what you don't know in future is my advice.
Grtz, it must have been difficult to find a few lads in the same place on those fixed "medium" populated War servers. By yesterday it must have been between 08.00PM and 10.00 PM then.
-------
OP: even posting such obvious nonsens is proof of what every War player stands for:
"...boredom is an art form for War players..."
and ".... envy is their motive...."
No War didn't kill Wow. And wishfull postings on MMORPG-wowhate.com doesn't help either.
I think War players indeed deserve a Mark Jacobs.
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
What's your point?
I don't sit around and wait for a game to come out for years.
I started looking into war in Aug 08... played it for a bit and got bored, why would i be disappointed.
I was talking about Darkfall, but never mind
I started looking into darkfall a week ago.. don't comment on what you don't know in future is my advice.
Well, it was an honest wish and I meant it in a good way. Hopefully you're not offended by it
For your own sake I hope you will not disappointed by the thing you've been waiting for so many years.
What's your point?
I don't sit around and wait for a game to come out for years.
I started looking into war in Aug 08... played it for a bit and got bored, why would i be disappointed.
A personal question please.
Which is your avatar in Wow? As it is "too easy," like you say, I would very much like to view your status on the armory.
It Shouldn't be too difficult to have a check where you stand after "a whole week of playing" in this "too easy" game, should it ?
I'll be in touch in game of course to double check and see which gear dropped from which bosses in WotLK.
It's either that or swollow the comments of "hear say".
WoW has 12 Million subs, WAR has like 10k subs
Number speaks for themselves really.
It's fun how Mark Jacobs told Blizzard how the gloves would come of, funny way of showing it by neglecting Europe when signing that deal with GOA. I will never buy another game from them since they are content with giving europe the longest finger of the hand, over and over again.
Mark Jacobs told us to vote with our wallets, and that they didn't need any forums. Yea, smart move.
Well one thing we can agree on, GOA just flat out sucks
This just shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Putting a capital under siege is just a basic requirement to be able to even access the end content. They didn't go much further than killing some vendors and setting a few awnings on fire before being pushed out.
That's like saying completing atunement quests for Kharazan is the end of TBC endgame and that there is nothing whatsoever beyond.
Wow is far from dead. I would actually say it is on it's top right now.
I agree that the PvE is too easy, but I think it is too easy in WAR too.
And I don't see WAR have more players than Wow ever. If it is a better game is up to every person to judge, the only better things anyone ever can agree on is technical things that can be measured, everything else is just a matter of taste.
WAR's PvE is the easiest thing to exist on the mmo market.
While WoW PvE is easy, theirs still a little more challenge than WAR offers from what ive seen.
I played both games from release and it's about the same regarding solo PvE and instances.
Public Quests are challenging though - more than anything in WoW's open world.
What many people don't realize is that PQs have a naturally scalable difficulty - depending on the number of players participating. Sure if you do them with a zerg they're easy... but you'll get pittance for rewards, both in influence and chance to drop. If you do them in smaller groups you will get much better rewards but at higher risk and level of challenge.
It seems that many are still unable to look past the old models... PQs and large higher tier instances all can take variable number of players (it's not just 5-man, 10-man or whatever). The game is as difficult and rewarding as you make it. Go 3-man PQs as I do when I'm in the mood and tell me how easymode PvE is.
The biggest issue WAR is facing is not the gameplay itself, but the heavy dependance on a full server in order to have fun. I can attest that RvR in T4 on medium or lower servers is a borefest. Playing on a full server is another ballgame entirely. So the OP statement that WAR is a better game is very conditional.
If either of those two conditions are not met, people are better off in WoW.
Yes. Especially when you make the numbers up.
Show me the 12 million sub link for WoW and especially show me the 10k (omglmao) link for WAR.
Yes. Especially when you make the numbers up.
Show me the 12 million sub link for WoW and especially show me the 10k (omglmao) link for WAR.
He's off by one million for WOW, relatively speaking that's hardly a relevant point here
WAR's though, probabl 300-500k somewhere thereabouts.
For me WoW was just alot better when you could actually see the players that made a real effort and commitment in the game by the gear they wore in major cities.
TBC gave gear to anyone that could field a 2v2 arena team.
Heroics that gave gear comparable to tier 5 and 6 with only a month or so of farming.
You can't even tell who puts the time in to WoW anymore.
Players are rewarded for sucking in WoW now.
Back before TBC if you blew at pvp you didn't hit rank 14 and if you sucked at raiding you were stuck in MC and the first two bosses in BWL forever while the good players had AQ and Naxx gear on.
You stood out if you were a good player that actually put the time into the game.
Now everyone will kill arthus in a 10 man raid and walk around in gear only 1 tier level lower than the elite players.... wtf is that all about. I'm glad I quit a while ago.
Imo if you suck you should be in blues and BOE AH epics while the players that invest more time and skill sit in Gear 3-4 tiers above grandma and little timmy.
WoW was fun Pre TBC now its just terribly lame... for me anyway.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
<Mod edit>,
I don't really want to do it in one zone where it doesn't affect anything but more PvE and gear. I want non-gear centric PvP progression. Has there been hundreds of players clashing yet? I did a fortress raid and loved it, definitely one of the best experiences to date in PvP.
RvR is way better than anything item centric that you can come up with.
What is the main thing the RvR zone gives? Items? More PvE?
WOW will never progress from a PvE centric game to a PvP one simply because everything is centred only around items and personal progression.