btw lol @ anyone suggesting that DF's marketing strategy is amateurish or bad....
Look at how fast this news annoucnement has exploded already within a few hours compared to annoucnements of other games in development.
Like it or not people...this game is HIGHLY discussed and is well known to pretty much everyone in the MMO community who visits sites like this or plays PVP games.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Decent read. Sadly I stopped reading once he used the word "troll". When developers start using words like this, it only shows how immature they can be. It boils down to name calling, which a developer should never do. Oh well though right, as he states, the game is ready for launch right now. I seriously can't wait for this dam thing to finally drop. It's going to be a field day, .....................
What do you think these so-called trolls have been doing for the past several years? Oh yeah thats right, being combative douches doing everything they can to belittle Tasos and the game. Honestly if you can't stand the usage of the word "troll" by another human being, then I'd advise against ever playing a game like Darkfall. The questions posed in the interview were direct and confrontational, and I think Tasos handled them well. Its been proven time and time again that there is NOTHING that can be done to satisfy the naysayers. The game could be a smash hit with a million subscribers, and they'll still come on here with the "cool to hate" attitude and say it sucks, lol.
very nice post. it seems like nothing can please the rabid people on here, they are the type of people that dont understand the idea of faith and cant believe in anything unless its right in front of them
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
so y do u fly? can u see youself landing safetly? no we cant look forward in time to see we put FAITH in the pilots that they will do their job. im doing the same thing with aventurine. if it sucks then oh well, but if its good ill play it. see where im going? its a videogame, only fifty dollars plus 15 a month, not too expensive, but u make such a big deal outta it
very nice post. it seems like nothing can please the rabid people on here, they are the type of people that dont understand the idea of faith and cant believe in anything unless its right in front of them
Heh, yeah, and the funny thing is when they do finally get something in front of them, they shit all over it as well. I guess you just can't please some people.
This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is.
Translation:
We have no money to properly market a game like EA, Turbine etc does so we rely on our blind faith fanboys to spam the word all over the place and rig hype rating polls on places like mmorpg.com.
But don't worry. Darkfall is A+ amazing. It'll just sell itself.
I have no problem with DF not spending bajillions of bucks in marketing campaigns as other companies who have that kind of cash do. That in itself is not a problem and it is good that they would use their ressources solely to sink into their game.
BUT!
That does not answer why they won't take -free- advertising. Mainstream media coming to their offices or getting a copy of the game to test it. Magazines, websites and so on would -love- to test the game and "promote" it by writing articles, giving insights etc etc.
And yet, Aventurine refuses to do even that. Why? It wouldn't cost them anything, so the argument that they want to use their ressources for the development alone does not cut it.
You're basically asking, 'Why don't they just open the doors for the media to come in and say what they want?" Well, the answer to that is pretty simple: Most big-time reviewers are simply paid off, you would have to be a little short sighted to not see it. Sites that give the new World of Warcraft expansion a near 10. A near 10 for what? A handful of new content that is the same as prior updates, in a different setting? That's hardly worth anything close to a 10.
Game sites giving Age of Conan a 9.5 - 10... is it worthy of that? Maybe, the game is entertaining but falls really short of whats expected in next-gen MMOs these days. These companies pour millions and millions into marketing and they just railroad these reviewers. It's just automatic ..
They're paid off most of the time, either by the literal sense or just by getting railroaded by the hype train.
They don't let them in because they'll let the game speak for itself. As it should be. Last time I checked, they have not taken any money from you, am I right? No pre-orders to walk you out on the tip of the plank. So just wait, sit it out and you will see.
So not only are you accusing journalists of being bought for good reviews, but you're also accusing us of being paid off to not say good things about other games.
I'm not saying the media hasn't been wrong abut stuff. Hell, I'm not saying I wasn't wrong about stuff, but take off the tinfoit hat. That's just ludacris.
very nice post. it seems like nothing can please the rabid people on here, they are the type of people that dont understand the idea of faith and cant believe in anything unless its right in front of them
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
so y do u fly? can u see youself landing safetly? no we cant look forward in time to see we put FAITH in the pilots that they will do their job. im doing the same thing with aventurine. if it sucks then oh well, but if its good ill play it. see where im going? its a videogame, only fifty dollars plus 15 a month, not too expensive, but u make such a big deal outta it
I’m not making a big deal about anything. You must have me confused with someone else. Personally I’m going to watch, wait, and maybe check it out if it survives past the 6th month mark, and taco hasn’t screamed and flamed the player base away.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
very nice post. it seems like nothing can please the rabid people on here, they are the type of people that dont understand the idea of faith and cant believe in anything unless its right in front of them
Heh, yeah, and the funny thing is when they do finally get something in front of them, they shit all over it as well. I guess you just can't please some people.
lol true
Hay look, i all ready said that. Amazing.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I guess we don't all hang on your every word, sorry. /shrug Besides, I can't take a person seriously who is arrogant enough to quote themselves in his/her own signature, lol. You really love to hear you talk, don't you? Thats neat. Keep on truckin buddy.
Everytime I read another developers answers to questions about their game, all I can see in my head is... Nick Burns - Your Company's Computer Geek So much attitude, so high strung, and so on the money!
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
very nice post. it seems like nothing can please the rabid people on here, they are the type of people that dont understand the idea of faith and cant believe in anything unless its right in front of them
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
That's not called reality, that's called a double standard. You take plenty of things as true by word of mouth without direct observation. You choose to be a skeptic about this even though there are plenty of accounts to suggest otherwise.
I guess we don't all hang on your every word, sorry. /shrug Besides, I can't take a person seriously who is arrogant enough to quote themselves in his/her own signature, lol. You really love to hear you talk, don't you? Thats neat. Keep on truckin buddy.
Its funny, becouse the quote applyes to myself.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Wow.. I mean just wow. I don't know if Tasos is a good developer (hopefully he and his team are). But one thing I know for sure is he's arrogant. Maybe he's not the best person to be doing PR for the game.
I just had to make some comments on some of what he said. Comments In GREEN!
PS: Anything that I don't comment on I don't have a problem with.
"Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time."
This answer struck me as a little odd. If it's more ready to launch then all of the MMORPG titles that he has sampled (I'm assuming a lot) then why hasn't it released yet? Why hasn't a release date been announced (I know, I know, coming in a few days)? Why hasn't open beta started?
It makes no sense for him to say this when all of the evidence is to the contrary.
"So long compared to what? We've been in development since 2003."
Been in development since 2003 huh? Ok. Well either this is a lie, or this is a lie:
Posted by Tasos on the Official Darkfall Forums on 9-30-2003.
"We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world... ...Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long. [truncated]
So which is the lie?
"So I would say that our development time is consistent with the making a breakthrough game, all the reusable technology to run it, and limited resources to do so. It's a long time, sure...but not for what we've achieved."
This statement comes off as very arrogant. It is not the developer who decides what is a breakthrough game, or what they have achieved. It is the players. Right now, Aventurine has not released anything breakthrough and they have achieved nothing in the realm of MMO games. These things can only happen after release.
"The MMO community is buzzing, and then you ask why we don't have marketing. It's somewhat of an oxymoron."
No. It's not an oxymoron at all. Hype is not advertising. No one outside of these gaming forums and our friends know what Darkfall is. Advertising is used to highlight the game to people that wouldn't normally see it. Again, a very arrogant statement.
"This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is."
I agree with that and I wish the game great success. Wasn't Aventurine's goal for Darkfall around 100k total subscribers? Or less? Seems like it will hit that with no problem to me, even without traditional advertising.
"What would a traditional marketing campaign achieve? To help sell some more game boxes? This is not a single player game. When you sell an MMO you're in it for the long-haul. The best marketing for an MMO is having a great game that retains your players."
That's a great outlook to have. But I would disagree that a traditional marketing campaign is useless. It may not be needed for Darkfall, but traditional marketing is still the best way to expose your product to a wide customer base. Denouncing it does not make it less true.
"You don't leak information easily unless you don't care, you're disappointed, or feel let down."
This is completely untrue. There are plenty of beta leaks from other games that started with the sentence "This is the most fun I have had in a game." People leak beta information for various reasons, not just because they are disappointed in the game. I would actually say most people who are disappointed in a game don't bother to leak information, other than saying, "This game sucks". Most of the time it's the people that really enjoy the game and want to play it that leak the detailed information. Look at Aion.
"We know that even large game development studios keep testing as an afterthought, if that."
Very arrogant repsonse, again. What examples does he have of this to back up his statement? I can't think of one development studio that would fit this description
"the game is already tested. We need the playtesters mostly for extra gameplay feedback and to test hardware configurations."
This is good to hear. I hope it's true.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Thanks Taso and Mmoprg.com for the interview. Taso seems fine to me. They are doing something different and they bleive in it. I just wish I had the knowledge experance and money to do the same. GOD BLESS them we need this kinda maverick spirit to get away from Clone MMO's NO MORE CRAPPY VERSIONS OF EQ WITH GHETTO PVP.
Decent read. Sadly I stopped reading once he used the word "troll". When developers start using words like this, it only shows how immature they can be. It boils down to name calling, which a developer should never do. Oh well though right, as he states, the game is ready for launch right now. I seriously can't wait for this dam thing to finally drop. It's going to be a field day, .....................
What do you think these so-called trolls have been doing for the past several years? Oh yeah thats right, being combative douches doing everything they can to belittle Tasos and the game. Honestly if you can't stand the usage of the word "troll" by another human being, then I'd advise against ever playing a game like Darkfall. The questions posed in the interview were direct and confrontational, and I think Tasos handled them well. Its been proven time and time again that there is NOTHING that can be done to satisfy the naysayers. The game could be a smash hit with a million subscribers, and they'll still come on here with the "cool to hate" attitude and say it sucks, lol.
You obviously don't get it, do you? So what if people bash him or his game to hell. For him to use an ignorant word to portray these people is bad on his part because he is the voice behind the game. It has nothing to do with him being human. I'm human and use such words, but I wouldn't if I was backing a product. I figured he would want to sell his product to everyone, my bad. I know alot of people will see this and just browse over it, but as he also stated, these people are going to end up buying his game. So why not welcome them, instead of name calling just so they keep on bashing his game. He's not going to like the fact that this game will end up in the same scenario's as Age of Conan and WAR, subs that decline rapidly. Then what, he going to bash people who enjoy the game also.
Him and Mark Jacobs are in the same boat. They both need to keep thier mouths shut. Sadly, there is no one to over see what they put out to thier community, so crap like this filters through.
Wow.. I mean just wow. I don't know if Tasos is a good developer (hopefully he and his team are). But one thing I know for sure is he's arrogant. I just had to make some comments on some of what he said. Comments In GREEN! PS: Anything that I don't comment on I don't have a problem with.
"Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time." This answer struck me as a little odd. If it's more ready to launch then all of the MMORPG titles that he has sampled (I'm assuming a lot) then why hasn't it released yet? Why hasn't a release date been announced (I know, I know, coming in a few days)? Why hasn't open beta started? It makes no sense for him to say this when all of the evidence is to the contrary. well... most MMORPGs that released in the last time weren't ready at all. So beeing "more" ready than them doesn't mean that much. Also they haven't done stress testing and seem to want to test the hardware a little more. "So long compared to what? We've been in development since 2003." Been in development since 2003 huh? Ok. Well either this is a lie, or this is a lie: Posted by Tasos on the Official Darkfall Forums on 9-30-2003. "We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world... ...Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long. [truncated] So which is the lie? AFAIK, they weren't happy with the current state of Darkfall in '03 and started all over again. "So I would say that our development time is consistent with the making a breakthrough game, all the reusable technology to run it, and limited resources to do so. It's a long time, sure...but not for what we've achieved." This statement comes off as very arrogant. It is not the developer who decides what is a breakthrough game, or what they have achieved. It is the players. Right now, Aventurine has not released anything breakthrough and they have achieved nothing in the realm of MMO games. These things can only happen after release. So a person is arrogant if he's proud on what he has archieved? Maybe they just delivered what they promised and have no major buggs? Also the feedback from the beta testers seems to be really positive. If you really have archieved something, you aren't arrogant just because you aren't super modest about it. It's not like he said "everything else is stupid and we just made the MMORPG of the millenium - everyone who thinks differently is stupid!!1". "The MMO community is buzzing, and then you ask why we don't have marketing. It's somewhat of an oxymoron." No. It's not an oxymoron at all. Hype is not advertising. No one outside of these gaming forums and our friends know what Darkfall is. Advertising is used to highlight the game to people that wouldn't normally see it. Again, a very arrogant statement. Sorry, but Darkfall really has ALOT of attention for not doing any advertisement at all? The hype is purely player-driven. Take this forum for example: Here are alot of haters but still: Hardly any thread in the news forum has as many postings as this thread aready has. And advertising a game AFTER it is available to the public might not be the worst idea there is. "This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is." I agree with that and I wish the game great success. Wasn't Aventurine's goal for Darkfall around 100k total subscribers? Or less? Seems like it will hit that with no problem to me, even without traditional advertising. Nothing to say here "What would a traditional marketing campaign achieve? To help sell some more game boxes? This is not a single player game. When you sell an MMO you're in it for the long-haul. The best marketing for an MMO is having a great game that retains your players." That's a great outlook to have. But I would disagree that a traditional marketing capaign is useless. It may not be needed for Darkfall, but traditional marketing is still the best way to expose your product to a wide customer base. Denouncing it does not make it less true. If you have a great game, the players will come. The hype will build itself up in the major gaming forums and if you then have a free trial for players to offer, there really shouldn't be a problem with getting new players to play. You can also start advertising later on. "You don't leak information easily unless you don't care, you're disappointed, or feel let down." This is completely untrue. There are plenty of beta leaks from other games that started with the sentence "This is the most fun I have had in a game." People leak beta information for various reasons, not just because they are disappointed in the game. I would actually say most people who are disappointed in a game don't bother to leak information, other than saying, "This game sucks". Most of the time it's the people that really enjoy the game and want to play it that leak the detailed information. Look at Aion. Aion had AFAIK alot more than just several hundred of testers. And if the game is really THIS good, they probably don't want to be kicked out of beta. "We know that even large game development studios keep testing as an afterthought, if that." Very arrogant repsonse, again. What examples does he have of this to back up his statement? I can't think of one development studio that would fit this description uhm... Funcom? And that's what Tasos means I believe. After all: Before AoC's release, the AoC-DEVs talked about how darkfall will never deliver its promises (the ferrari-metapher, you know ;-)), etc. And even WoW was pretty bugged at release. "the game is already tested. We need the playtesters mostly for extra gameplay feedback and to test hardware configurations." This is good to hear. I hope it's true.
Just trying to contribute a little bit, and move away from the silliness of some of the posters.
A.I. Testing
Not saying that I agree with the whole bot / A.I. testing, not exactly at least, but always the first network tests on a new network software is done on emulators with bots.
Stress test / Hardware Beta testing
Stress tests are done to see what your own hardware and software can handle. Hardware testing is done to see how much compatible is your software with your testers' computers.
Arrogance / Honesty-Confidence
This is one of the most reduntant matters to discuss on the subject. Of course most of the skeptics will take Tasos' answers as arrogant, and the fanboys as honest-confident. I don't see the point in discussing this at all.
Honestly I am very sad reading most of what people write to condemn this game... and surprise at how people can be "in need" of attention.
Actually scrolling again between the post you see that the person that write bad stuff are always the same but they need to do multiply post in a continuous need of attention.
Being pessimistic is the ultimate win you can’t be wrong if everything go down south you are happy because you were right if the game is cool everybody ignore and forget you and you can enjoy yourself with them the game…
So easy… I am tempted… lot better then hope everything work and then being proved wrong and suffer for lost of a dream… I guess it is time… it is the time for everybody to agree with the pessimistic bullshit and all together (us that believe in Darkfall) agree with them we will make them happy is Christmas time for God sake lets make them happy (they probably need it).
Yes this is gonna fail hard so hard that probably they will erase Greece from the map. It's obvious look at the *insert one of the million of good reason any expert doomer in this site can suggest you*
If you wait Drakfall if you hope everything is going to be good just keep it in your heart stop posting here just let it go...
This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is.
Translation:
We have no money to properly market a game like EA, Turbine etc does so we rely on our blind faith fanboys to spam the word all over the place and rig hype rating polls on places like mmorpg.com.
But don't worry. Darkfall is A+ amazing. It'll just sell itself.
I have no problem with DF not spending bajillions of bucks in marketing campaigns as other companies who have that kind of cash do. That in itself is not a problem and it is good that they would use their ressources solely to sink into their game.
BUT!
That does not answer why they won't take -free- advertising. Mainstream media coming to their offices or getting a copy of the game to test it. Magazines, websites and so on would -love- to test the game and "promote" it by writing articles, giving insights etc etc.
And yet, Aventurine refuses to do even that. Why? It wouldn't cost them anything, so the argument that they want to use their ressources for the development alone does not cut it.
You're basically asking, 'Why don't they just open the doors for the media to come in and say what they want?" Well, the answer to that is pretty simple: Most big-time reviewers are simply paid off, you would have to be a little short sighted to not see it. Sites that give the new World of Warcraft expansion a near 10. A near 10 for what? A handful of new content that is the same as prior updates, in a different setting? That's hardly worth anything close to a 10.
Game sites giving Age of Conan a 9.5 - 10... is it worthy of that? Maybe, the game is entertaining but falls really short of whats expected in next-gen MMOs these days. These companies pour millions and millions into marketing and they just railroad these reviewers. It's just automatic ..
They're paid off most of the time, either by the literal sense or just by getting railroaded by the hype train.
They don't let them in because they'll let the game speak for itself. As it should be. Last time I checked, they have not taken any money from you, am I right? No pre-orders to walk you out on the tip of the plank. So just wait, sit it out and you will see.
So not only are you accusing journalists of being bought for good reviews, but you're also accusing us of being paid off to not say good things about other games.
I'm not saying the media hasn't been wrong abut stuff. Hell, I'm not saying I wasn't wrong about stuff, but take off the tinfoit hat. That's just ludacris.
Well, I'm talking about certain sites and organizations that will take a questionable game, that has a marketing budget nearly equal to its development and then putting a spin on it like.. "Get this game, because we said so."
I come to mmorpg.com for the unconditional community and up-to-date news. I think traditional game reviewing, (more pronounced for MMOs at least) is starting to become a thing of the past.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Well, a release date within the next few days can't be a bad thing. As for the confidence/arrogance 'issue' - you people haven't read some of his earlier dev blogs, obviously. ;P
Hopefully we'll see some more info on MMORPG.com in the future, failing that at least we found out that they're ready for launch, so the game shouldn't be delayed (as some feared it might). Good good.
Wow...this is still going on? Let it rest. It's all gonna be decided by the end of this month, one way or another.Either we will be playing a free version of DF to see if it suits us, alternatively an open Beta, or we will get an excuse and a postpone of the launch and everything else.
Either way, things will be decided and it's just one more month. The fanatics will continue to claim everyone who has a shred of negative thought about the game is a troll and the trolls will continue to cry vaporware until the game is actually released.
For those few who try to have decent discussions it will be a blessing, because things will be much clearer by the end of this month, one way or another.
[quote][i]Originally posted by LukePlumber[/i] [quote]uhm... Funcom? And that's what Tasos means I believe. After all: Before AoC's release, the AoC-DEVs talked about how darkfall will never deliver its promises (the ferrari-metapher, you know ;-)), etc. And even WoW was pretty bugged at release.[/quote] [/quote]
Comments
btw lol @ anyone suggesting that DF's marketing strategy is amateurish or bad....
Look at how fast this news annoucnement has exploded already within a few hours compared to annoucnements of other games in development.
Like it or not people...this game is HIGHLY discussed and is well known to pretty much everyone in the MMO community who visits sites like this or plays PVP games.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
What do you think these so-called trolls have been doing for the past several years? Oh yeah thats right, being combative douches doing everything they can to belittle Tasos and the game. Honestly if you can't stand the usage of the word "troll" by another human being, then I'd advise against ever playing a game like Darkfall. The questions posed in the interview were direct and confrontational, and I think Tasos handled them well. Its been proven time and time again that there is NOTHING that can be done to satisfy the naysayers. The game could be a smash hit with a million subscribers, and they'll still come on here with the "cool to hate" attitude and say it sucks, lol.
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
so y do u fly? can u see youself landing safetly? no we cant look forward in time to see we put FAITH in the pilots that they will do their job. im doing the same thing with aventurine. if it sucks then oh well, but if its good ill play it. see where im going? its a videogame, only fifty dollars plus 15 a month, not too expensive, but u make such a big deal outta it
Heh, yeah, and the funny thing is when they do finally get something in front of them, they shit all over it as well. I guess you just can't please some people.
lol true
Translation:
We have no money to properly market a game like EA, Turbine etc does so we rely on our blind faith fanboys to spam the word all over the place and rig hype rating polls on places like mmorpg.com.
But don't worry. Darkfall is A+ amazing. It'll just sell itself.
I have no problem with DF not spending bajillions of bucks in marketing campaigns as other companies who have that kind of cash do. That in itself is not a problem and it is good that they would use their ressources solely to sink into their game.
BUT!
That does not answer why they won't take -free- advertising. Mainstream media coming to their offices or getting a copy of the game to test it. Magazines, websites and so on would -love- to test the game and "promote" it by writing articles, giving insights etc etc.
And yet, Aventurine refuses to do even that. Why? It wouldn't cost them anything, so the argument that they want to use their ressources for the development alone does not cut it.
You're basically asking, 'Why don't they just open the doors for the media to come in and say what they want?" Well, the answer to that is pretty simple: Most big-time reviewers are simply paid off, you would have to be a little short sighted to not see it. Sites that give the new World of Warcraft expansion a near 10. A near 10 for what? A handful of new content that is the same as prior updates, in a different setting? That's hardly worth anything close to a 10.
Game sites giving Age of Conan a 9.5 - 10... is it worthy of that? Maybe, the game is entertaining but falls really short of whats expected in next-gen MMOs these days. These companies pour millions and millions into marketing and they just railroad these reviewers. It's just automatic ..
They're paid off most of the time, either by the literal sense or just by getting railroaded by the hype train.
They don't let them in because they'll let the game speak for itself. As it should be. Last time I checked, they have not taken any money from you, am I right? No pre-orders to walk you out on the tip of the plank. So just wait, sit it out and you will see.
So not only are you accusing journalists of being bought for good reviews, but you're also accusing us of being paid off to not say good things about other games.
I'm not saying the media hasn't been wrong abut stuff. Hell, I'm not saying I wasn't wrong about stuff, but take off the tinfoit hat. That's just ludacris.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
so y do u fly? can u see youself landing safetly? no we cant look forward in time to see we put FAITH in the pilots that they will do their job. im doing the same thing with aventurine. if it sucks then oh well, but if its good ill play it. see where im going? its a videogame, only fifty dollars plus 15 a month, not too expensive, but u make such a big deal outta it
I’m not making a big deal about anything. You must have me confused with someone else. Personally I’m going to watch, wait, and maybe check it out if it survives past the 6th month mark, and taco hasn’t screamed and flamed the player base away.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Heh, yeah, and the funny thing is when they do finally get something in front of them, they shit all over it as well. I guess you just can't please some people.
lol true
Hay look, i all ready said that. Amazing.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Everytime I read another developers answers to questions about their game, all I can see in my head is...
Nick Burns - Your Company's Computer Geek
So much attitude, so high strung, and so on the money!
I guess we don't all hang on your every word, sorry. /shrug
Besides, I can't take a person seriously who is arrogant enough to quote themselves in his/her own signature, lol. You really love to hear you talk, don't you? Thats neat. Keep on truckin buddy. 
Computer GUY
But yea lol one of my favorite characters on SNL
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
That’s called reality. I am trying to help here. Because the backlash of crying is going to resound for at least 6 months.
That's not called reality, that's called a double standard. You take plenty of things as true by word of mouth without direct observation. You choose to be a skeptic about this even though there are plenty of accounts to suggest otherwise.
I guess we don't all hang on your every word, sorry. /shrug
Besides, I can't take a person seriously who is arrogant enough to quote themselves in his/her own signature, lol. You really love to hear you talk, don't you? Thats neat. Keep on truckin buddy. 
Its funny, becouse the quote applyes to myself.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Wow.. I mean just wow. I don't know if Tasos is a good developer (hopefully he and his team are). But one thing I know for sure is he's arrogant. Maybe he's not the best person to be doing PR for the game.
I just had to make some comments on some of what he said. Comments In GREEN!
PS: Anything that I don't comment on I don't have a problem with.
"Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time."
This answer struck me as a little odd. If it's more ready to launch then all of the MMORPG titles that he has sampled (I'm assuming a lot) then why hasn't it released yet? Why hasn't a release date been announced (I know, I know, coming in a few days)? Why hasn't open beta started?
It makes no sense for him to say this when all of the evidence is to the contrary.
"So long compared to what? We've been in development since 2003."
Been in development since 2003 huh? Ok. Well either this is a lie, or this is a lie:
Posted by Tasos on the Official Darkfall Forums on 9-30-2003.
"We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world... ...Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long. [truncated]
So which is the lie?
"So I would say that our development time is consistent with the making a breakthrough game, all the reusable technology to run it, and limited resources to do so. It's a long time, sure...but not for what we've achieved."
This statement comes off as very arrogant. It is not the developer who decides what is a breakthrough game, or what they have achieved. It is the players. Right now, Aventurine has not released anything breakthrough and they have achieved nothing in the realm of MMO games. These things can only happen after release.
"The MMO community is buzzing, and then you ask why we don't have marketing. It's somewhat of an oxymoron."
No. It's not an oxymoron at all. Hype is not advertising. No one outside of these gaming forums and our friends know what Darkfall is. Advertising is used to highlight the game to people that wouldn't normally see it. Again, a very arrogant statement.
"This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is."
I agree with that and I wish the game great success. Wasn't Aventurine's goal for Darkfall around 100k total subscribers? Or less? Seems like it will hit that with no problem to me, even without traditional advertising.
"What would a traditional marketing campaign achieve? To help sell some more game boxes? This is not a single player game. When you sell an MMO you're in it for the long-haul. The best marketing for an MMO is having a great game that retains your players."
That's a great outlook to have. But I would disagree that a traditional marketing campaign is useless. It may not be needed for Darkfall, but traditional marketing is still the best way to expose your product to a wide customer base. Denouncing it does not make it less true.
"You don't leak information easily unless you don't care, you're disappointed, or feel let down."
This is completely untrue. There are plenty of beta leaks from other games that started with the sentence "This is the most fun I have had in a game." People leak beta information for various reasons, not just because they are disappointed in the game. I would actually say most people who are disappointed in a game don't bother to leak information, other than saying, "This game sucks". Most of the time it's the people that really enjoy the game and want to play it that leak the detailed information. Look at Aion.
"We know that even large game development studios keep testing as an afterthought, if that."
Very arrogant repsonse, again. What examples does he have of this to back up his statement? I can't think of one development studio that would fit this description
"the game is already tested. We need the playtesters mostly for extra gameplay feedback and to test hardware configurations."
This is good to hear. I hope it's true.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
YES ONLY UO CLONES!!
What do you think these so-called trolls have been doing for the past several years? Oh yeah thats right, being combative douches doing everything they can to belittle Tasos and the game. Honestly if you can't stand the usage of the word "troll" by another human being, then I'd advise against ever playing a game like Darkfall. The questions posed in the interview were direct and confrontational, and I think Tasos handled them well. Its been proven time and time again that there is NOTHING that can be done to satisfy the naysayers. The game could be a smash hit with a million subscribers, and they'll still come on here with the "cool to hate" attitude and say it sucks, lol.
You obviously don't get it, do you? So what if people bash him or his game to hell. For him to use an ignorant word to portray these people is bad on his part because he is the voice behind the game. It has nothing to do with him being human. I'm human and use such words, but I wouldn't if I was backing a product. I figured he would want to sell his product to everyone, my bad. I know alot of people will see this and just browse over it, but as he also stated, these people are going to end up buying his game. So why not welcome them, instead of name calling just so they keep on bashing his game. He's not going to like the fact that this game will end up in the same scenario's as Age of Conan and WAR, subs that decline rapidly. Then what, he going to bash people who enjoy the game also.
Him and Mark Jacobs are in the same boat. They both need to keep thier mouths shut. Sadly, there is no one to over see what they put out to thier community, so crap like this filters through.
Now that I have said that, no beta leaks, eh?
Comments in red.
You guys think they need marketing?
Just trying to contribute a little bit, and move away from the silliness of some of the posters.
A.I. Testing
Not saying that I agree with the whole bot / A.I. testing, not exactly at least, but always the first network tests on a new network software is done on emulators with bots.
Stress test / Hardware Beta testing
Stress tests are done to see what your own hardware and software can handle. Hardware testing is done to see how much compatible is your software with your testers' computers.
Arrogance / Honesty-Confidence
This is one of the most reduntant matters to discuss on the subject. Of course most of the skeptics will take Tasos' answers as arrogant, and the fanboys as honest-confident. I don't see the point in discussing this at all.
Honestly I am very sad reading most of what people write to condemn this game... and surprise at how people can be "in need" of attention.
Actually scrolling again between the post you see that the person that write bad stuff are always the same but they need to do multiply post in a continuous need of attention.
Being pessimistic is the ultimate win you can’t be wrong if everything go down south you are happy because you were right if the game is cool everybody ignore and forget you and you can enjoy yourself with them the game…
So easy… I am tempted… lot better then hope everything work and then being proved wrong and suffer for lost of a dream… I guess it is time… it is the time for everybody to agree with the pessimistic bullshit and all together (us that believe in Darkfall) agree with them we will make them happy is Christmas time for God sake lets make them happy (they probably need it).
Yes this is gonna fail hard so hard that probably they will erase Greece from the map. It's obvious look at the *insert one of the million of good reason any expert doomer in this site can suggest you*
If you wait Drakfall if you hope everything is going to be good just keep it in your heart stop posting here just let it go...
Translation:
We have no money to properly market a game like EA, Turbine etc does so we rely on our blind faith fanboys to spam the word all over the place and rig hype rating polls on places like mmorpg.com.
But don't worry. Darkfall is A+ amazing. It'll just sell itself.
I have no problem with DF not spending bajillions of bucks in marketing campaigns as other companies who have that kind of cash do. That in itself is not a problem and it is good that they would use their ressources solely to sink into their game.
BUT!
That does not answer why they won't take -free- advertising. Mainstream media coming to their offices or getting a copy of the game to test it. Magazines, websites and so on would -love- to test the game and "promote" it by writing articles, giving insights etc etc.
And yet, Aventurine refuses to do even that. Why? It wouldn't cost them anything, so the argument that they want to use their ressources for the development alone does not cut it.
You're basically asking, 'Why don't they just open the doors for the media to come in and say what they want?" Well, the answer to that is pretty simple: Most big-time reviewers are simply paid off, you would have to be a little short sighted to not see it. Sites that give the new World of Warcraft expansion a near 10. A near 10 for what? A handful of new content that is the same as prior updates, in a different setting? That's hardly worth anything close to a 10.
Game sites giving Age of Conan a 9.5 - 10... is it worthy of that? Maybe, the game is entertaining but falls really short of whats expected in next-gen MMOs these days. These companies pour millions and millions into marketing and they just railroad these reviewers. It's just automatic ..
They're paid off most of the time, either by the literal sense or just by getting railroaded by the hype train.
They don't let them in because they'll let the game speak for itself. As it should be. Last time I checked, they have not taken any money from you, am I right? No pre-orders to walk you out on the tip of the plank. So just wait, sit it out and you will see.
So not only are you accusing journalists of being bought for good reviews, but you're also accusing us of being paid off to not say good things about other games.
I'm not saying the media hasn't been wrong abut stuff. Hell, I'm not saying I wasn't wrong about stuff, but take off the tinfoit hat. That's just ludacris.
Well, I'm talking about certain sites and organizations that will take a questionable game, that has a marketing budget nearly equal to its development and then putting a spin on it like.. "Get this game, because we said so."
I come to mmorpg.com for the unconditional community and up-to-date news. I think traditional game reviewing, (more pronounced for MMOs at least) is starting to become a thing of the past.
Clearly no one is watching this game and Aventurine fails at marketing their product.
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Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Well, a release date within the next few days can't be a bad thing. As for the confidence/arrogance 'issue' - you people haven't read some of his earlier dev blogs, obviously. ;P
Hopefully we'll see some more info on MMORPG.com in the future, failing that at least we found out that they're ready for launch, so the game shouldn't be delayed (as some feared it might). Good good.
Wow...this is still going on? Let it rest. It's all gonna be decided by the end of this month, one way or another.Either we will be playing a free version of DF to see if it suits us, alternatively an open Beta, or we will get an excuse and a postpone of the launch and everything else.
Either way, things will be decided and it's just one more month. The fanatics will continue to claim everyone who has a shred of negative thought about the game is a troll and the trolls will continue to cry vaporware until the game is actually released.
For those few who try to have decent discussions it will be a blessing, because things will be much clearer by the end of this month, one way or another.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
All I have to say is, thank you to whoevers idea it was to do that interview, finally some information and light on DFO. some very exciting news.
chew on that haters. like the dude from the interview pretty much said, love it or hate, its still an obsession with ya'll.
[quote][i]Originally posted by LukePlumber[/i] [quote]uhm... Funcom? And that's what Tasos means I believe. After all: Before AoC's release, the AoC-DEVs talked about how darkfall will never deliver its promises (the ferrari-metapher, you know ;-)), etc. And even WoW was pretty bugged at release.[/quote] [/quote]
Wow, I didn't realize Funcom went that far.