I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
war for me is a better more entertaining game than wow, and to me that is what matters, screw what the rest of you think.
Yes, and there are 40,000 people playing AOC that think AOC is the best game ever.
EA is cutting 10% of their workforce. MJ stated they would have 1M subscribers by the end of 08 and would be growing to 2-3M. The fact is the game has between 200-400k subscribers ( My guess is 250) and has absolutely fallen off of the sales charts. There is no way the game grows without selling boxes. You can bet that EA is looking at Warhammer as a place to cut jobs..especially when they get those weekly sales reports for box sales.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
EVE is pretty transparent with their player numbers. Like WOW, they are the only game that announces numbers very regularly. And there is a reason.. because they are the only two games that are growing since release.
When things were going good for Warhammer (pre-release and the first week), MJ was quoting numbers left and right. Then things got iffy and he started throwing out those vaque numbers ( 97% daily retention LOL). Now they simply are not talking at all. Sounds alot like Funcom, no?
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
Apology accepted. Please try to read more carefully in the future and then type/respond appropriately as any responsible poster would.
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
Apology accepted. Please try to read more carefully in the future and then type/respond appropriately as any responsible poster would.
Thanks many
when you actually have something worth reading carefully I most certainly will. Until then dont hold your breath. Oh, and try taking your own advice and re-read my post. I dont recall an apology to you in there. So pease dont read what I didnt type.
EVE is pretty transparent with their player numbers. Like WOW, they are the only game that announces numbers very regularly. And there is a reason.. because they are the only two games that are growing since release.
VERY good point. Eve and WoW also have one other thing in common:
They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large. They both do their OWN thing.
Wow is so huge, it SETS the standard that 99% of games releasing (including Warhammer) try to emulate in some way, shape or fashion. They post their numbers due to confidence about their product. They don't have to hide them because they have their well established base and cater to that. They could care less what anyone thinks about them losing/gaining subs. They will always get more.
Eve is not as big, but again, they don't try to copy Wow or anyone else. They do their OWN thing. They have their established base and they cater to those people as well. They could give a flying you-know-what about WoW or what people who are not in their demographic thinks. They know they will always have enough people to sub if they stay true to this and don't try to water down the booze like Warhammer has done. Both games show confidence there and thats why they are successful. THAT'S why they both post subscriptions numbers.
Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree and wants some of WoW's pie. They don't want a big piece, just about 5% and they'd be happy. But they can't admit they are shooting for that so they pretend to be "hardcore" PvP so that they can build a base of.. someone.
Warhammer cannot even tailor the game to the true Warhammer tabletop enthusiasts, most of whom detest WAR Online. Ask most Warhammer tabletop players and they say Warhammer has not done a good enough job capuring the spirit of their world. Warhammer cannot count on the DAoC people because they dissed them already saying War is not supposed to be like DAoC. So those people left WAR.
War, like it's more rabid fans, has an identity crisis. It doesn't even know what kind of game it is. It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population. It wants to have its own identity and fanbase, but it needs to draw them from WoW.
It's gotta be tough to dis your momma, when you are suckling at her teats.
Oh, and try taking your own advice and re-read my post. I dont recall an apology to you in there. So pease dont read what I didnt type.
Omg.. you got gremlins in your house Tyvolus. When you left just then to get a drink, one of them ran to your computer and typed this:
My bad, I confused you with Azrile.
No gremlins in your house? Then you are either:
Blind or Stupid. Which one is it?
acknowledging an error is a little different then saying, "I am so sorry" or "I apologize for such and such." What I did was admit I made an error, I think that is a little different then saying I am sorry. But, you get a pat on the back for trying !!
Oh and the gremlin story was cute...Do you dress up like a Hobbit when you play LOTRO ?
EVE is pretty transparent with their player numbers. Like WOW, they are the only game that announces numbers very regularly. And there is a reason.. because they are the only two games that are growing since release.
VERY good point. Eve and WoW also have one other thing in common:
They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large. They both do their OWN thing.
Wow is so huge, it SETS the standard that 99% of games releasing (including Warhammer) try to emulate in some way, shape or fashion. They post their numbers due to confidence about their product. They don't have to hide them because they have their well established base and cater to that. They could care less what anyone thinks about them losing/gaining subs. They will always get more.
Eve is not as big, but again, they don't try to copy Wow or anyone else. They do their OWN thing. They have their established base and they cater to those people as well. They could give a flying you-know-what about WoW or what people who are not in their demographic thinks. They know they will always have enough people to sub if they stay true to this and don't try to water down the booze like Warhammer has done. Both games show confidence there and thats why they are successful. THAT'S why they both post subscriptions numbers.
Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree and wants some of WoW's pie. They don't want a big piece, just about 5% and they'd be happy. But they can't admit they are shooting for that so they pretend to be "hardcore" PvP so that they can build a base of.. someone.
Warhammer cannot even tailor the game to the true Warhammer tabletop enthusiasts, most of whom detest WAR Online. Ask most Warhammer tabletop players and they say Warhammer has not done a good enough job capuring the spirit of their world. Warhammer cannot count on the DAoC people because they dissed them already saying War is not supposed to be like DAoC. So those people left WAR.
War, like it's more rabid fans, has an identity crisis. It doesn't even know what kind of game it is. It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population. It wants to have its own identity and fanbase, but it needs to draw them from WoW.
It's gotta be tough to dis your momma, when you are suckling at her teats.
glad you are the chosen spokesperson for the WARHAMMER tabletop gaming community. Do they pay you to be their PR guy ? Or do you do it for free, out of the kindness of your heart ?
"It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population."
--Yet again, yet another lie you are spitting up. For anyone who plays the game, especially after the most recent patch, knows this to be a pile of steaming hot BS. Seriously dude, you need to spread your lies where real WAR players dont see them. That way you wont get called out when you speak your tripe.
"They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large"
wow dude, how much does Blizz pay you to cover their PR on the gaming forums ?
"Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree"
Interesting, since the WarCraft univers was modeled after the WarHammer universe many year ago with the original WarCraft RTS. Selective history at its finest folks !
Give it a rest, your ramblings are filled with so many holes it isnt even funny.
Damn I was hoping this would never end *The below comments are from an outsider* This is entertainment! Btw, Ty you got pwnd! Oh and I haven't played WoW in months (try again) Oh and I watch War forums in hopes that one day it's worth my money. (So far no, thanks partially to the fanboys) Oh and I play Guild Wars since you like to make fun of other people's game choices. P.S. I'm a troll. There I saved you your favorite useless opinion(since we are all trolls in some way).
"Oh and I play Guild Wars since you like to make fun of other people's game choices."
acknowledging an error is a little different then saying, "I am so sorry" or "I apologize for such and such." What I did was admit I made an error, I think that is a little different then saying I am sorry. But, you get a pat on the back for trying !!
Seriously, you did not know that:
My bad, I confused you with Azrile.
is an apology? You don't know what "My bad" means? Then why are you trying to sound hip when you don't even know what the lingo means?
Anyone under 30 knows "my bad" is both an acknowledgement of wrongdoing AND a general apology to those who it affected.
When a wide receiver drops a pass and says "My bad dog" hes admitting he dropped it and is apologizing to his teammates.
When a basketball player misses a dunk and says "My bad" hes doing the same and hoping his team forgives him.
When someone bumps into you in line at the store while waiting to buy something, or trying to get by and says "My bad", that is an apology. It's not the most graceful one, but it IS recognized by anyone who knows English and slang as pretty much as an apology, at least in the United States.
Doh. I figured it out. You must not be from the U.S. And based on the way you answer questions and give rebuttals, I'd say it's more likely you are from Mars.
I think I finally figure out why 10's of 1000's of people left Warhammer in the first three months after it released. If they met as many people in the game as moronic as you are, they could see where this game was headed.
acknowledging an error is a little different then saying, "I am so sorry" or "I apologize for such and such." What I did was admit I made an error, I think that is a little different then saying I am sorry. But, you get a pat on the back for trying !!
Seriously, you did not know that:
My bad, I confused you with Azrile.
is an apology? You don't know what "My bad" means? Then why are you trying to sound hip when you don't even know what the lingo means?
Anyone under 30 knows "my bad" is both an acknowledgement of wrongdoing AND a general apology to those who it affected.
When a wide receiver drops a pass and says "My bad dog" hes admitting he dropped it and is apologizing to his teammates.
When a basketball player misses a dunk and says "My bad" hes doing the same and hoping his team forgives him.
When someone bumps into you in line at the store while waiting to buy something, or trying to get by and says "My bad", that is an apology. It's not the most graceful one, but it IS recognized by anyone who knows English and slang as pretty much as an apology, at least in the United States.
Doh. I figured it out. You must not be from the U.S. And based on the way you answer questions and give rebuttals, I'd say it's more likely you are from Mars.
I think I finally figure out why 10's of 1000's of people left Warhammer in the first three months after it released. If they met as many people in the game as moronic as you are, they could see where this game was headed.
I think it goes without saying that many phrases or words can and do have multiple meanings or usages...but not necessarily all at the same time. "My bad, or my mistake." That is what I said and meant. You can try and twist it around all you want, but it doesnt change what I said and clearly meant. Again, My Bad -- meaning My Mistake. It is one of the correct usages of that phrase, whether you like it or not. So, you can thump your chest and act all cool and tough, but it doesnt change the fact that you are as wrong as it gets. "My bad, my mistake." get it ?
Honestly Frodo, you are trying so hard to look smart that all you are doing is proving how desperate you are to look like you are somehow, someway an intelligent person. Sadly for you, you aren't and I am sure I am not the only one who sees you for the nobody you are.
I think it goes without saying that many phrases or words can and do have multiple meanings or usages...but not necessarily all at the same time. "My bad, or my mistake." That is what I said and meant. You can try and twist it around all you want, but it doesnt change what I said and clearly meant. Again, My Bad -- meaning My Mistake. It is one of the correct usages of that phrase, whether you like it or not. So, you can thump your chest and act all cool and tough, but it doesnt change the fact that you are as wrong as it gets. "My bad, my mistake." get it ?
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
I think it goes without saying that many phrases or words can and do have multiple meanings or usages...but not necessarily all at the same time. "My bad, or my mistake." That is what I said and meant. You can try and twist it around all you want, but it doesnt change what I said and clearly meant. Again, My Bad -- meaning My Mistake. It is one of the correct usages of that phrase, whether you like it or not. So, you can thump your chest and act all cool and tough, but it doesnt change the fact that you are as wrong as it gets. "My bad, my mistake." get it ?
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
I'm certainly not representative, but I'm one who left WOW for WAR, and have since been disappointed.
But not disappointed enough to buy WotLK.
WOW has its own problems, and they exist independently of the problems (or successes) of other games, and I like to hope that honest WOW players (and former players) are willing to acknowledge them, regardless of how they feel about the game as a whole.
My reasons for leaving WOW are largely social (my friends never really got a good schedule to play together, and guild politics drove me to rob a couple of vaults dry and then cut a trail--acts for which I have entirely legitimate reasons, for which I'm not ashamed, and for which I'm perfectly willing to account if anyone is interested in a detailed explanation). Aside from that, though, there are mechanical and administrative problems with WOW that I feel are entirely legitimate complaints, and for which I don't see a realistic solution in the near future (chiefest of which are a poor itemization/money sink model and poor content gating choices at the end-game level). Hence I don't play WOW anymore. That simple. I don't feel the need to run WOW into the ground despite the fact that I think there are comparatively better games on the market. Besides, persecuting something just makes it stronger (e.g., Christianity).
But some people feel wronged by WOW, and even if I disagree with their reasons, I can't really fault them if they feel like they invested their time into something that turned out not to be what it was represented to them to be. If someone joined WOW and had a blast for 70 levels, only to find out that their x hours were essentially wasted (if, for example, they expected world PVP to be a legitimate objective; or if they expected the level of progression they experienced to continue, instead only finding that to continue to advance they were forced to either grind raid content or grind arena content), I can understand their frustration. That's bait and switch; the primary difference between Blizzard and a company like SOE is that Blizzard has the good sense to package the switch presentably and at least have the content completed and available when the game is set. No one faults people who left SWG after the CU and NGE, and no one really faults people for leaving EQ or EQ2 now that the publishers are including microtransactions. There's a huge difference in scale here, absolutely--but it's a difference in degree, not type.
WAR has its own problems as well, and people love or hate it essentially on the same grounds that they love or hate any other game. If players feel the game-makers failed to deliver on representations they made, on the basis of which players paid to play the game, their annoyance is well-founded. I still play WAR at the moment, but I'll also be totally honest in that I'm extremely frustrated by the failure of Mythic to deliver a product that was--well, for lack of a better way to put it, and to be totally blunt: more like DAOC. That's the bottom line for me, and whether I continue to play the game for a substantial period of time (and pay for it) depends on whether Mythic can repair my disillusionment about their continued capacity to deliver a current-generation product with the same level of depth that their classic previous product did. [It also depends on whether Mythic can teach its customer service personnel how not to be total assholes to their customers; right now that's a much bigger beef with me than anything inside the game.]
But even if WAR and WOW were essentially exactly the same game (which they're not; be honest here, people. They're similar, but they're definitely not the same game), WOW would still have advantages and disadvantages in the PR wars. Chiefest of which, WOW is the largest MMO game to exist in the history of the genre, bar none. It's a beast. And like similar beasts in other industries, it's the prime target for the propaganda (both good and bad) unleased by or on behalf of every other competitor. It's the Wal-Mart of MMO's. If I were a developer, I'd probably budget (if I could do so legally) anti-WOW propaganda just as part of doing business. Everybody wants a piece of that pie.
On the other hand, WOW has all the perks of its Wal-Mart status as well, and so I think it's a little disingenuous to argue that WOW's growth is a real mark of its quality. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, but I hate Wal-Mart and still shop there. Growth in WOW's market share doesn't reflect the quality of its products so much as the lack of quality alternatives (and Mythic is truly at fault here) and, more importantly, the snowball effect of an industry that's heavily dependent on brand loyalty. If WOW increases its subscription base because 5% of its subscribers tell their friends they need an extra healer, that's a massive jump by current market standards. WAR can experience the exact same growth, and it's merely a drop in the bucket because of WAR's smaller market share.
Right now, WAR is losing subscribers. I don't say that to be crude or mean--I like WAR, on the whole--but all the evidence I can access seems to suggest that the signs are bad. That's definitely not a death knell though. After all, with the money they've put into the game, I'm sure they're willing to pay to make the necessary improvements--the question is just if they can discover and implement what those improvements need to be in a timely fashion. So I understand the frustration of players, and it's not surprising that they would lash out at WOW as the primary candidate.
If WOW players really believe that WAR could put a significant dent in WOW's market domination, then those complaints are equally well-founded (I used to believe this was possible--now I don't, not at all). After all, everybody wants to be a winner.
What doesn't fly is exchanging grief for no other reason than spite, and the most frustrating thing to see as a gamer--regardless of which game it is I may currently be playing--is this childish self-centric back-and-forth arguing over these, or any other, games. We all want good games. We all want developers to actually put forth an effort at delivering them too.
Shouldn't we also want other gamers to get the same good results?
I'm certainly not representative, but I'm one who left WOW for WAR, and have since been disappointed. But not disappointed enough to buy WotLK.
WOW has its own problems, and they exist independently of the problems (or successes) of other games, and I like to hope that honest WOW players (and former players) are willing to acknowledge them, regardless of how they feel about the game as a whole. My reasons for leaving WOW are largely social (my friends never really got a good schedule to play together, and guild politics drove me to rob a couple of vaults dry and then cut a trail--acts for which I have entirely legitimate reasons, for which I'm not ashamed, and for which I'm perfectly willing to account if anyone is interested in a detailed explanation). Aside from that, though, there are mechanical and administrative problems with WOW that I feel are entirely legitimate complaints, and for which I don't see a realistic solution in the near future (chiefest of which are a poor itemization/money sink model and poor content gating choices at the end-game level). Hence I don't play WOW anymore. That simple. I don't feel the need to run WOW into the ground despite the fact that I think there are comparatively better games on the market. Besides, persecuting something just makes it stronger (e.g., Christianity). But some people feel wronged by WOW, and even if I disagree with their reasons, I can't really fault them if they feel like they invested their time into something that turned out not to be what it was represented to them to be. If someone joined WOW and had a blast for 70 levels, only to find out that their x hours were essentially wasted (if, for example, they expected world PVP to be a legitimate objective; or if they expected the level of progression they experienced to continue, instead only finding that to continue to advance they were forced to either grind raid content or grind arena content), I can understand their frustration. That's bait and switch; the primary difference between Blizzard and a company like SOE is that Blizzard has the good sense to package the switch presentably and at least have the content completed and available when the game is set. No one faults people who left SWG after the CU and NGE, and no one really faults people for leaving EQ or EQ2 now that the publishers are including microtransactions. There's a huge difference in scale here, absolutely--but it's a difference in degree, not type.
WAR has its own problems as well, and people love or hate it essentially on the same grounds that they love or hate any other game. If players feel the game-makers failed to deliver on representations they made, on the basis of which players paid to play the game, their annoyance is well-founded. I still play WAR at the moment, but I'll also be totally honest in that I'm extremely frustrated by the failure of Mythic to deliver a product that was--well, for lack of a better way to put it, and to be totally blunt: more like DAOC. That's the bottom line for me, and whether I continue to play the game for a substantial period of time (and pay for it) depends on whether Mythic can repair my disillusionment about their continued capacity to deliver a current-generation product with the same level of depth that their classic previous product did. [It also depends on whether Mythic can teach its customer service personnel how not to be total assholes to their customers; right now that's a much bigger beef with me than anything inside the game.]
But even if WAR and WOW were essentially exactly the same game (which they're not; be honest here, people. They're similar, but they're definitely not the same game), WOW would still have advantages and disadvantages in the PR wars. Chiefest of which, WOW is the largest MMO game to exist in the history of the genre, bar none. It's a beast. And like similar beasts in other industries, it's the prime target for the propaganda (both good and bad) unleased by or on behalf of every other competitor. It's the Wal-Mart of MMO's. If I were a developer, I'd probably budget (if I could do so legally) anti-WOW propaganda just as part of doing business. Everybody wants a piece of that pie. On the other hand, WOW has all the perks of its Wal-Mart status as well, and so I think it's a little disingenuous to argue that WOW's growth is a real mark of its quality. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, but I hate Wal-Mart and still shop there. Growth in WOW's market share doesn't reflect the quality of its products so much as the lack of quality alternatives (and Mythic is truly at fault here) and, more importantly, the snowball effect of an industry that's heavily dependent on brand loyalty. If WOW increases its subscription base because 5% of its subscribers tell their friends they need an extra healer, that's a massive jump by current market standards. WAR can experience the exact same growth, and it's merely a drop in the bucket because of WAR's smaller market share.
Right now, WAR is losing subscribers. I don't say that to be crude or mean--I like WAR, on the whole--but all the evidence I can access seems to suggest that the signs are bad. That's definitely not a death knell though. After all, with the money they've put into the game, I'm sure they're willing to pay to make the necessary improvements--the question is just if they can discover and implement what those improvements need to be in a timely fashion. So I understand the frustration of players, and it's not surprising that they would lash out at WOW as the primary candidate. If WOW players really believe that WAR could put a significant dent in WOW's market domination, then those complaints are equally well-founded (I used to believe this was possible--now I don't, not at all). After all, everybody wants to be a winner.
What doesn't fly is exchanging grief for no other reason than spite, and the most frustrating thing to see as a gamer--regardless of which game it is I may currently be playing--is this childish self-centric back-and-forth arguing over these, or any other, games. We all want good games. We all want developers to actually put forth an effort at delivering them too. Shouldn't we also want other gamers to get the same good results?
I think he messed up his numbers... "So many people" left WoW? There's what, a million max that tried out AoC? Let's assume they *all* come from WoW and even then only count the western side which is about 5 million players that's still only 20% of the players trying out another game and clearly they didn't all stay. Same with WAR
WoW actually even reached a new high after WAR got released so really, if you're going to argue "WoWcrap" you really should try using some real arguments, not fiction.
The point he's trying to make, I believe, isn't what percent leave WoW, or that do leave and go back...
The point, as I understood it, is that there are many people who are eagerly looking for something to pull them away from WoW, and keep them there.
Thus, when any new MMO is coming along that looks promising, they're ready to "jump ship" and try it out.
Typically speaking, when people are wholly satisfied with the game they're playing, they aren't looking to go anywhere.
And, personally, I've seen numerous examples that bring validity to that statement.. People will say "I play WoW, but only to hold me over until "such and such" comes out..." and then, if they go back it's, "Was really hoping for a better game to go to, but "such and such" wasn't what I thought it would be".
So... there's nothing wrong with what the OP says at least in that regard.
As for the people coming here and trolling, etc. etc.. Well.. welcome to mmorpg.com.
And, to be fair, you see that in almost any MMO's forums. There are people who are basically "settling" for the MMO they're playing now, while they wait for an upcoming one that they hope to switch over to.
I didn't argue that point at all though. There will always be people in any MMO waiting for the next big thing and just settling for the MMO they are in now. What I argued was the "So many part" which, as I tried to show was hardly a significant part of it's population at best. Now sure an investor might think "Ow noes! 20% investment!" and you'd be right but it's clearly not a percentage that would in some way imply a large proportion of WOW's populace is only there waiting for the next big thing.
Ahh.. okay. Fair enough, then
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
wow has an influx of asian gold farmers fattening their sub numbers again -- so ?
Influx fattening subscription numbers? According to your logic of "no one knows how many subs this/that", how can you say "influx" with a straight face?
On the one hand, you claim no one knows numbers, yet with the other you are ready to claim a "influx" of "asian gold farmers" in Wow fattening up their subscriptions numbers.
You really don't see any hypocritical tendencies in your postings? I really worry for you Ty.. I really do.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
Did you just seriously take him to task for ignoring your question?
I've been reading this thread and popin's posed a question about WAR's lost subs within the first 3 months and you've avoided that at every turn.
Pot, meet kettle.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Just as if those 4 posters matter to the facts in mentioned above. The downfall of War is mostly due to referring to Warcraft. Better be better if you want to do that.
yah, lets start a discussion on which came first...WAR or wow. Not sure you would want that tho.
Of course Wow came first. ... about 4 years.
Or do you think otherwise ? LOL
Well, if we're talking World of Warcraft versus Warhammer Online, then yes.. WoW came first.
However, the point I'm sure Ty is making that the Warhammer IP was created long before Warcraft and, in fact, Warcraft borrows significantly from Warhammer. In that case, he is correct.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think it goes without saying that many phrases or words can and do have multiple meanings or usages...but not necessarily all at the same time. "My bad, or my mistake." That is what I said and meant. You can try and twist it around all you want, but it doesnt change what I said and clearly meant. Again, My Bad -- meaning My Mistake. It is one of the correct usages of that phrase, whether you like it or not. So, you can thump your chest and act all cool and tough, but it doesnt change the fact that you are as wrong as it gets. "My bad, my mistake." get it ?
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
Please... do continue.
Is this the best you got ?
... as though his best is actually necessary.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
wow has an influx of asian gold farmers fattening their sub numbers again -- so ?
Influx fattening subscription numbers? According to your logic of "no one knows how many subs this/that", how can you say "influx" with a straight face?
On the one hand, you claim no one knows numbers, yet with the other you are ready to claim a "influx" of "asian gold farmers" in Wow fattening up their subscriptions numbers.
You really don't see any hypocritical tendencies in your postings? I really worry for you Ty.. I really do.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
Did you just seriously take him to task for ignoring your question?
I've been reading this thread and popin's posed a question about WAR's lost subs within the first 3 months and you've avoided that at every turn.
Pot, meet kettle.
Hilarious isn't it.
I haven't been entertained by a thread this much in so long.
Comments
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
"TO MICHAEL!"
war for me is a better more entertaining game than wow, and to me that is what matters, screw what the rest of you think.
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
Yes, and there are 40,000 people playing AOC that think AOC is the best game ever.
EA is cutting 10% of their workforce. MJ stated they would have 1M subscribers by the end of 08 and would be growing to 2-3M. The fact is the game has between 200-400k subscribers ( My guess is 250) and has absolutely fallen off of the sales charts. There is no way the game grows without selling boxes. You can bet that EA is looking at Warhammer as a place to cut jobs..especially when they get those weekly sales reports for box sales.
You made another posting error. I did not post anything about Eve. Please read the posts again but more carefully this time.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
My bad, I confused you with Azrile. Not hard to do, you both spend more time here on the WAR forums then you do playing your own respective, boring MMOs. Also, just like you he pulls numbers out of thin air to try and prove a point or win an argument. In other words, he makes up lies...just like you. Another similarity you share with him is your undying obsession with WAR. Heck you might as well answer the question for him, you guys were made for each other.
How I got that EVE is growing
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html
EVE is pretty transparent with their player numbers. Like WOW, they are the only game that announces numbers very regularly. And there is a reason.. because they are the only two games that are growing since release.
When things were going good for Warhammer (pre-release and the first week), MJ was quoting numbers left and right. Then things got iffy and he started throwing out those vaque numbers ( 97% daily retention LOL). Now they simply are not talking at all. Sounds alot like Funcom, no?
Apology accepted. Please try to read more carefully in the future and then type/respond appropriately as any responsible poster would.
Thanks many
"TO MICHAEL!"
Apology accepted. Please try to read more carefully in the future and then type/respond appropriately as any responsible poster would.
Thanks many
when you actually have something worth reading carefully I most certainly will. Until then dont hold your breath. Oh, and try taking your own advice and re-read my post. I dont recall an apology to you in there. So pease dont read what I didnt type.
VERY good point. Eve and WoW also have one other thing in common:
They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large. They both do their OWN thing.
Wow is so huge, it SETS the standard that 99% of games releasing (including Warhammer) try to emulate in some way, shape or fashion. They post their numbers due to confidence about their product. They don't have to hide them because they have their well established base and cater to that. They could care less what anyone thinks about them losing/gaining subs. They will always get more.
Eve is not as big, but again, they don't try to copy Wow or anyone else. They do their OWN thing. They have their established base and they cater to those people as well. They could give a flying you-know-what about WoW or what people who are not in their demographic thinks. They know they will always have enough people to sub if they stay true to this and don't try to water down the booze like Warhammer has done. Both games show confidence there and thats why they are successful. THAT'S why they both post subscriptions numbers.
Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree and wants some of WoW's pie. They don't want a big piece, just about 5% and they'd be happy. But they can't admit they are shooting for that so they pretend to be "hardcore" PvP so that they can build a base of.. someone.
Warhammer cannot even tailor the game to the true Warhammer tabletop enthusiasts, most of whom detest WAR Online. Ask most Warhammer tabletop players and they say Warhammer has not done a good enough job capuring the spirit of their world. Warhammer cannot count on the DAoC people because they dissed them already saying War is not supposed to be like DAoC. So those people left WAR.
War, like it's more rabid fans, has an identity crisis. It doesn't even know what kind of game it is. It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population. It wants to have its own identity and fanbase, but it needs to draw them from WoW.
It's gotta be tough to dis your momma, when you are suckling at her teats.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Omg.. you got gremlins in your house Tyvolus. When you left just then to get a drink, one of them ran to your computer and typed this:
No gremlins in your house? Then you are either:
Blind or Stupid. Which one is it?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Omg.. you got gremlins in your house Tyvolus. When you left just then to get a drink, one of them ran to your computer and typed this:
No gremlins in your house? Then you are either:
Blind or Stupid. Which one is it?
acknowledging an error is a little different then saying, "I am so sorry" or "I apologize for such and such." What I did was admit I made an error, I think that is a little different then saying I am sorry. But, you get a pat on the back for trying !!
Oh and the gremlin story was cute...Do you dress up like a Hobbit when you play LOTRO ?
VERY good point. Eve and WoW also have one other thing in common:
They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large. They both do their OWN thing.
Wow is so huge, it SETS the standard that 99% of games releasing (including Warhammer) try to emulate in some way, shape or fashion. They post their numbers due to confidence about their product. They don't have to hide them because they have their well established base and cater to that. They could care less what anyone thinks about them losing/gaining subs. They will always get more.
Eve is not as big, but again, they don't try to copy Wow or anyone else. They do their OWN thing. They have their established base and they cater to those people as well. They could give a flying you-know-what about WoW or what people who are not in their demographic thinks. They know they will always have enough people to sub if they stay true to this and don't try to water down the booze like Warhammer has done. Both games show confidence there and thats why they are successful. THAT'S why they both post subscriptions numbers.
Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree and wants some of WoW's pie. They don't want a big piece, just about 5% and they'd be happy. But they can't admit they are shooting for that so they pretend to be "hardcore" PvP so that they can build a base of.. someone.
Warhammer cannot even tailor the game to the true Warhammer tabletop enthusiasts, most of whom detest WAR Online. Ask most Warhammer tabletop players and they say Warhammer has not done a good enough job capuring the spirit of their world. Warhammer cannot count on the DAoC people because they dissed them already saying War is not supposed to be like DAoC. So those people left WAR.
War, like it's more rabid fans, has an identity crisis. It doesn't even know what kind of game it is. It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population. It wants to have its own identity and fanbase, but it needs to draw them from WoW.
It's gotta be tough to dis your momma, when you are suckling at her teats.
glad you are the chosen spokesperson for the WARHAMMER tabletop gaming community. Do they pay you to be their PR guy ? Or do you do it for free, out of the kindness of your heart ?
"It's a huge Open RvR minus the huge Open RvR population."
--Yet again, yet another lie you are spitting up. For anyone who plays the game, especially after the most recent patch, knows this to be a pile of steaming hot BS. Seriously dude, you need to spread your lies where real WAR players dont see them. That way you wont get called out when you speak your tripe.
"They are both two MMOs that don't CARE what the MMO community thinks by and large"
wow dude, how much does Blizz pay you to cover their PR on the gaming forums ?
"Warhammer, on the other hand, has an identity problem. It's obviously modeled after WoW to some degree"
Interesting, since the WarCraft univers was modeled after the WarHammer universe many year ago with the original WarCraft RTS. Selective history at its finest folks !
Give it a rest, your ramblings are filled with so many holes it isnt even funny.
Damn I was hoping this would never end
*The below comments are from an outsider*
This is entertainment!
Btw, Ty you got pwnd!
Oh and I haven't played WoW in months (try again)
Oh and I watch War forums in hopes that one day it's worth my money. (So far no, thanks partially to the fanboys)
Oh and I play Guild Wars since you like to make fun of other people's game choices.
P.S. I'm a troll. There I saved you your favorite useless opinion(since we are all trolls in some way).
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
"Oh and I play Guild Wars since you like to make fun of other people's game choices."
You get what you give.
is an apology? You don't know what "My bad" means? Then why are you trying to sound hip when you don't even know what the lingo means?Seriously, you did not know that:
Anyone under 30 knows "my bad" is both an acknowledgement of wrongdoing AND a general apology to those who it affected.
When a wide receiver drops a pass and says "My bad dog" hes admitting he dropped it and is apologizing to his teammates.
When a basketball player misses a dunk and says "My bad" hes doing the same and hoping his team forgives him.
When someone bumps into you in line at the store while waiting to buy something, or trying to get by and says "My bad", that is an apology. It's not the most graceful one, but it IS recognized by anyone who knows English and slang as pretty much as an apology, at least in the United States.
Doh. I figured it out. You must not be from the U.S. And based on the way you answer questions and give rebuttals, I'd say it's more likely you are from Mars.
I think I finally figure out why 10's of 1000's of people left Warhammer in the first three months after it released. If they met as many people in the game as moronic as you are, they could see where this game was headed.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Seriously, you did not know that:
is an apology? You don't know what "My bad" means? Then why are you trying to sound hip when you don't even know what the lingo means?Anyone under 30 knows "my bad" is both an acknowledgement of wrongdoing AND a general apology to those who it affected.
When a wide receiver drops a pass and says "My bad dog" hes admitting he dropped it and is apologizing to his teammates.
When a basketball player misses a dunk and says "My bad" hes doing the same and hoping his team forgives him.
When someone bumps into you in line at the store while waiting to buy something, or trying to get by and says "My bad", that is an apology. It's not the most graceful one, but it IS recognized by anyone who knows English and slang as pretty much as an apology, at least in the United States.
Doh. I figured it out. You must not be from the U.S. And based on the way you answer questions and give rebuttals, I'd say it's more likely you are from Mars.
I think I finally figure out why 10's of 1000's of people left Warhammer in the first three months after it released. If they met as many people in the game as moronic as you are, they could see where this game was headed.
I think it goes without saying that many phrases or words can and do have multiple meanings or usages...but not necessarily all at the same time. "My bad, or my mistake." That is what I said and meant. You can try and twist it around all you want, but it doesnt change what I said and clearly meant. Again, My Bad -- meaning My Mistake. It is one of the correct usages of that phrase, whether you like it or not. So, you can thump your chest and act all cool and tough, but it doesnt change the fact that you are as wrong as it gets. "My bad, my mistake." get it ?
Honestly Frodo, you are trying so hard to look smart that all you are doing is proving how desperate you are to look like you are somehow, someway an intelligent person. Sadly for you, you aren't and I am sure I am not the only one who sees you for the nobody you are.
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
Please... do continue.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
Please... do continue.
Is this the best you got ?
I'm certainly not representative, but I'm one who left WOW for WAR, and have since been disappointed.
But not disappointed enough to buy WotLK.
WOW has its own problems, and they exist independently of the problems (or successes) of other games, and I like to hope that honest WOW players (and former players) are willing to acknowledge them, regardless of how they feel about the game as a whole.
My reasons for leaving WOW are largely social (my friends never really got a good schedule to play together, and guild politics drove me to rob a couple of vaults dry and then cut a trail--acts for which I have entirely legitimate reasons, for which I'm not ashamed, and for which I'm perfectly willing to account if anyone is interested in a detailed explanation). Aside from that, though, there are mechanical and administrative problems with WOW that I feel are entirely legitimate complaints, and for which I don't see a realistic solution in the near future (chiefest of which are a poor itemization/money sink model and poor content gating choices at the end-game level). Hence I don't play WOW anymore. That simple. I don't feel the need to run WOW into the ground despite the fact that I think there are comparatively better games on the market. Besides, persecuting something just makes it stronger (e.g., Christianity).
But some people feel wronged by WOW, and even if I disagree with their reasons, I can't really fault them if they feel like they invested their time into something that turned out not to be what it was represented to them to be. If someone joined WOW and had a blast for 70 levels, only to find out that their x hours were essentially wasted (if, for example, they expected world PVP to be a legitimate objective; or if they expected the level of progression they experienced to continue, instead only finding that to continue to advance they were forced to either grind raid content or grind arena content), I can understand their frustration. That's bait and switch; the primary difference between Blizzard and a company like SOE is that Blizzard has the good sense to package the switch presentably and at least have the content completed and available when the game is set. No one faults people who left SWG after the CU and NGE, and no one really faults people for leaving EQ or EQ2 now that the publishers are including microtransactions. There's a huge difference in scale here, absolutely--but it's a difference in degree, not type.
WAR has its own problems as well, and people love or hate it essentially on the same grounds that they love or hate any other game. If players feel the game-makers failed to deliver on representations they made, on the basis of which players paid to play the game, their annoyance is well-founded. I still play WAR at the moment, but I'll also be totally honest in that I'm extremely frustrated by the failure of Mythic to deliver a product that was--well, for lack of a better way to put it, and to be totally blunt: more like DAOC. That's the bottom line for me, and whether I continue to play the game for a substantial period of time (and pay for it) depends on whether Mythic can repair my disillusionment about their continued capacity to deliver a current-generation product with the same level of depth that their classic previous product did. [It also depends on whether Mythic can teach its customer service personnel how not to be total assholes to their customers; right now that's a much bigger beef with me than anything inside the game.]
But even if WAR and WOW were essentially exactly the same game (which they're not; be honest here, people. They're similar, but they're definitely not the same game), WOW would still have advantages and disadvantages in the PR wars. Chiefest of which, WOW is the largest MMO game to exist in the history of the genre, bar none. It's a beast. And like similar beasts in other industries, it's the prime target for the propaganda (both good and bad) unleased by or on behalf of every other competitor. It's the Wal-Mart of MMO's. If I were a developer, I'd probably budget (if I could do so legally) anti-WOW propaganda just as part of doing business. Everybody wants a piece of that pie.
On the other hand, WOW has all the perks of its Wal-Mart status as well, and so I think it's a little disingenuous to argue that WOW's growth is a real mark of its quality. It's a good game, don't get me wrong, but I hate Wal-Mart and still shop there. Growth in WOW's market share doesn't reflect the quality of its products so much as the lack of quality alternatives (and Mythic is truly at fault here) and, more importantly, the snowball effect of an industry that's heavily dependent on brand loyalty. If WOW increases its subscription base because 5% of its subscribers tell their friends they need an extra healer, that's a massive jump by current market standards. WAR can experience the exact same growth, and it's merely a drop in the bucket because of WAR's smaller market share.
Right now, WAR is losing subscribers. I don't say that to be crude or mean--I like WAR, on the whole--but all the evidence I can access seems to suggest that the signs are bad. That's definitely not a death knell though. After all, with the money they've put into the game, I'm sure they're willing to pay to make the necessary improvements--the question is just if they can discover and implement what those improvements need to be in a timely fashion. So I understand the frustration of players, and it's not surprising that they would lash out at WOW as the primary candidate.
If WOW players really believe that WAR could put a significant dent in WOW's market domination, then those complaints are equally well-founded (I used to believe this was possible--now I don't, not at all). After all, everybody wants to be a winner.
What doesn't fly is exchanging grief for no other reason than spite, and the most frustrating thing to see as a gamer--regardless of which game it is I may currently be playing--is this childish self-centric back-and-forth arguing over these, or any other, games. We all want good games. We all want developers to actually put forth an effort at delivering them too.
Shouldn't we also want other gamers to get the same good results?
Peace and safety.
Pretty good post Xhieron, I like how you put your reasons for like/dislike in a row. You definitely put some thought into it.
Nice share.
"TO MICHAEL!"
well worth reading.
The point he's trying to make, I believe, isn't what percent leave WoW, or that do leave and go back...
The point, as I understood it, is that there are many people who are eagerly looking for something to pull them away from WoW, and keep them there.
Thus, when any new MMO is coming along that looks promising, they're ready to "jump ship" and try it out.
Typically speaking, when people are wholly satisfied with the game they're playing, they aren't looking to go anywhere.
And, personally, I've seen numerous examples that bring validity to that statement.. People will say "I play WoW, but only to hold me over until "such and such" comes out..." and then, if they go back it's, "Was really hoping for a better game to go to, but "such and such" wasn't what I thought it would be".
So... there's nothing wrong with what the OP says at least in that regard.
As for the people coming here and trolling, etc. etc.. Well.. welcome to mmorpg.com.
And, to be fair, you see that in almost any MMO's forums. There are people who are basically "settling" for the MMO they're playing now, while they wait for an upcoming one that they hope to switch over to.
I didn't argue that point at all though. There will always be people in any MMO waiting for the next big thing and just settling for the MMO they are in now. What I argued was the "So many part" which, as I tried to show was hardly a significant part of it's population at best. Now sure an investor might think "Ow noes! 20% investment!" and you'd be right but it's clearly not a percentage that would in some way imply a large proportion of WOW's populace is only there waiting for the next big thing.
Ahh.. okay. Fair enough, then
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Influx fattening subscription numbers? According to your logic of "no one knows how many subs this/that", how can you say "influx" with a straight face?
On the one hand, you claim no one knows numbers, yet with the other you are ready to claim a "influx" of "asian gold farmers" in Wow fattening up their subscriptions numbers.
You really don't see any hypocritical tendencies in your postings? I really worry for you Ty.. I really do.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
Did you just seriously take him to task for ignoring your question?
I've been reading this thread and popin's posed a question about WAR's lost subs within the first 3 months and you've avoided that at every turn.
Pot, meet kettle.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
yah, lets start a discussion on which came first...WAR or wow. Not sure you would want that tho.
Of course Wow came first. ... about 4 years.
Or do you think otherwise ? LOL
Well, if we're talking World of Warcraft versus Warhammer Online, then yes.. WoW came first.
However, the point I'm sure Ty is making that the Warhammer IP was created long before Warcraft and, in fact, Warcraft borrows significantly from Warhammer. In that case, he is correct.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Please explain your take on linguistics a little more. This is pretty good stuff.
You sound just like Sarah Palin during the Katie Couric interview when she was talking about Russia and her house.
Please... do continue.
Is this the best you got ?
... as though his best is actually necessary.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Influx fattening subscription numbers? According to your logic of "no one knows how many subs this/that", how can you say "influx" with a straight face?
On the one hand, you claim no one knows numbers, yet with the other you are ready to claim a "influx" of "asian gold farmers" in Wow fattening up their subscriptions numbers.
You really don't see any hypocritical tendencies in your postings? I really worry for you Ty.. I really do.
I love the way you completely ignore my question. So as not to confuse you here it is: You say EVE is growing in subs, the game has said for a while now it has 250k -- Now, where are you getting this information that EVE is growing in subs ?
thanks in advance.
Did you just seriously take him to task for ignoring your question?
I've been reading this thread and popin's posed a question about WAR's lost subs within the first 3 months and you've avoided that at every turn.
Pot, meet kettle.
Hilarious isn't it.
I haven't been entertained by a thread this much in so long.
O_o o_O