With DF people see many red flags, people are acting like we are being forced to buy the darn game. You have a choice people. If you see a problem with it DONT BUY IT!!! Why is this concept so hard?
Of course no one is being forced to buy this game. Last I checked, no one's forced to buy any game at all.
The point is, by this point in an MMO's development, there is generally some kind of open media access to a game. We're not talking about in-depth spoilers or anything, either-- just a reporter from a reputable outlet being allowed to see the game in person and play it, take their own screen shots and videos, or even spend a day or two fiddling around with the beta client so they can talk about their experiences in the game for others.
Yes, I know-- the MMORPG Italia guys got to do that. Good for them. How about a similar chance for a major English-speaking media outlet either in the EU or NA, particularly since they're about to go to some sort of trial phase on January 22nd, with a release set for Feb. 25th? Some kind of hands-on media exposure in the month before release isn't a bad thing.
Right now, the only beta "updates" come from someone whose website just happens to be hosted on Aventurine's servers, and who is close friends with the staff. That doesn't count for anything. It would be better if someone with no connection at all to the devs gave an objective, hands-on impression of Darkfall. Those kinds of outside hands-on media demos would go a long, long way to easing the fears that some have, and would answer many of the questions surrounding this game. Why not go for it? What does it hurt?
With DF people see many red flags, people are acting like we are being forced to buy the darn game. You have a choice people. If you see a problem with it DONT BUY IT!!! Why is this concept so hard?
Of course no one is being forced to buy this game. Last I checked, no one's forced to buy any game at all.
The point is, by this point in an MMO's development, there is generally some kind of open media access to a game. We're not talking about in-depth spoilers or anything, either-- just a reporter from a reputable outlet being allowed to see the game in person and play it, take their own screen shots and videos, or even spend a day or two fiddling around with the beta client so they can talk about their experiences in the game for others.
Yes, I know-- the MMORPG Italia guys got to do that. Good for them. How about a similar chance for a major English-speaking media outlet either in the EU or NA, particularly since they're about to go to some sort of trial phase on January 22nd, with a release set for Feb. 25th? Some kind of hands-on media exposure in the month before release isn't a bad thing.
Right now, the only beta "updates" come from someone whose website just happens to be hosted on Aventurine's servers, and who is close friends with the staff. That doesn't count for anything. It would be better if someone with no connection at all to the devs gave an objective, hands-on impression of Darkfall. Those kinds of outside hands-on media demos would go a long, long way to easing the fears that some have, and would answer many of the questions surrounding this game. Why not go for it? What does it hurt?
I very much understand your concern. What does it hurt? What if they are covering up stuff, IF something is broke in it, or its just brutal to play, they dont want free press in telling everyone that game is awfull for w/e reason. Thats one of many red flags that I am refering to in my quote that you quoted. So IF its released with the information we have today, and you buy it, you have ignored a MAJOR red flag and deserve what you get. You have a choice buy it or dont buy it based on the information we have/get.
I am pesonaly sick of people talking about the free-trial come the 22nd. It baffels to me as why people still believe anything about DF with its past. I will believe it only when people are able to log in and play, and tell us about it. Until then its just more smooth talking to smooth over the fanbase with a new excuss to come on the 22nd.
His words were to vague like ALWAYS, another red-flag.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Why should any sort of onus be placed on this site for vetting Darkfall? ...
Fair enough.
But if MMORPG.com wishes to maintain any pretense of being impatial then they have to list ANY GAME presented to them that meets the current criteria based on Developer claims.
You don't need any qualifications to be a Developer.
Any mug can create a website these days - even one with a white border.
Photoshop a few screenies.
Write 1000 words on your plans.
And by what Stradden is saying... they can not / will not de-list any game unless it is proven to be a fraud?
Hmmm....
I think the "Games in Development" list is about to explode?
And forget about this site having any credibility. But hey, we are just reporting the news... right?
Where do you think I came up with the requirement for a website? 6 screenshots? 1000 words?
In fact, TWICE today in two separate threads (see post 260 and 262 here) and in this thread... I have linked that very same page and referred to those rules. In both cases specifically replying to YOU.
You missed that?
Look Stradden, I know Darkfall apparently meets the (current) criteria. No dispute there.
But what we are saying is that Darkfall has exposed a massive hole in the rules.
I say again: Does Darkfall meet the MMORPG.com requirements to be listed here?
THAT is the question.
You say yes. I say: How do you know?
All the information we have comes from one source. The "developer".
Again, do you know ANYONE who can confirm what this developer says Darkfall can do?
You are in the business... you must know someone who knows someone?
Now, maybe it's all true and Darkfall IS the second coming? (That would be great TBH)
Then again, maybe it's all a massive fraud?
How do we know? How do you know?
A year into development - okay - maybe you could let this slide...
But 9 years?
Be objective please and think about it. If you have an independent source then please share with the community?
And maybe it's time to look at the requirements to have your game listed on this site and close out the loophole where games which are no more than pipe dreams and concept art can sneak in?
Why should any sort of onus be placed on this site for vetting Darkfall? ...
Fair enough.
But if MMORPG.com wishes to maintain any pretense of being impatial then they have to list ANY GAME presented to them that meets the current criteria based on Developer claims.
You don't need any qualifications to be a Developer.
Any mug can create a website these days - even one with a white border.
Photoshop a few screenies.
Write 1000 words on your plans.
And by what Stradden is saying... they can not / will not de-list any game unless it is proven to be a fraud?
Hmmm....
I think the "Games in Development" list is about to explode?
And forget about this site having any credibility. But hey, we are just reporting the news... right?
Where do you think I came up with the requirement for a website? 6 screenshots? 1000 words?
In fact, TWICE today in two separate threads (see post 260 and 262 here) and in this thread... I have linked that very same page and referred to those rules. In both cases specifically replying to YOU.
You missed that?
Look Stradden, I know Darkfall apparently meets the (current) criteria. No dispute there.
But what we are saying is that Darkfall has exposed a massive hole in the rules.
I say again: Does Darkfall meet the MMORPG.com requirements to be listed here?
THAT is the question.
You say yes. I say: How do you know?
All the information we have comes from one source. The "developer".
Again, do you know ANYONE who can confirm what this developer says Darkfall can do?
You are in the business... you must know someone who knows someone?
Now, maybe it's all true and Darkfall IS the second coming? (That would be great TBH)
Then again, maybe it's all a massive fraud?
How do we know? How do you know?
A year into development - okay - maybe you could let this slide...
But 9 years?
Be objective please and think about it. If you have an independent source then please share with the community?
And maybe it's time to look at the requirements to have your game listed on this site and close out the loophole where games which are no more than pipe dreams and concept art can sneak in?
While were at it why dont we just remove the new star wars, eathgate, star-trek, and just about all of the other games in this list here minus a few that there is outside proof:
Everyone was upset when Wish folded. There were no trolls because those guys knew how to handle the public. They just ran out of time and money. On the other hand people will be lining up to piss on Darkfall's grave. Credit for that goes to Tasos.
I miss Wish. The day we all got laid off from that sucked... Same day you all dound out, by the way. That game was also in beta, with a few delays and having been there personally, I can assure eveeryone it wasn't a scam... Though as I recall tehre were a lot of people saying it was at the time. Trust me, there were trolls.
I just wanted to say that I miss wish too, I was milking a cow or perhaps it was a goat to make some cheese when the beta server went down for the last time and even though it was only a sojourn into the virtual dairy industry it gave me a brief glimpse into the possibilities of interweb cheese making that I will always treasure fondly as well as many other halcyon wish memories.
I also wanted to just say thankyou for allowing people to express their opinions and nurturing free speech, grass root consumer action, balanced and fair but flexible moderation in moderation etc. etc. which makes this site so super duper especially in such tricky dickey situations like this whole Darkfall enigma thingy.
Originally posted by toddze While were at it why dont we just remove the new star wars, eathgate, star-trek, and just about all of the other games in this list here minus a few that there is outside proof: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/development god forbid that some people actually come here to find out information on a game in development. And not take whats written here as set in stone.
If you are expecting me to say "No. They should stay!" then sorry to disappoint you...
Yes, they should go too.
Nothing to stop you discussing these games in the 'general discussion' area of the forum.
News
Rumor Room
The Pub
Open Beta Discussion (<- see my next comment though - by now they would qualify)
That is - until they show proof of concept. A working title at Alpha testing stage. Independently verified.
If this game has shown us nothing else it is that the rules have a couple of loopholes and MMORPG.com needs tighter standards.
Maybe 5 years ago it might have been okay to use these rules?
But now, any kid with standard off the shelf software can;
Make a website
Create a few photoshop 'screenies'.
Write up some dev notes.
Even create a few 'levels' / 'environments' and use an engine they download for free to create a very realistic looking "game".
I was tempted to do it myself to prove a point here... but I think you know I am right so why waste a weekend to prove it? A weekend is all it would take some people, maybe less?
I've read through this thread, and taken a moment to sit back and think on some of it for awhile. I let the information, and concepts presented, sink in and stir around in my head for a bit. Then, I asked myself a very important question.
"Protect us from what?"
It was at that moment that I realized something. In most MMORPG's...there is nothing to be protected from. You lose nothing by waiting and simply seeing what actually comes of a game when it releases, indeed...such a plan should be expected from all of us at this point. What, then, makes Darkfall different to the point of needing to look at it differently? I can tell you.
FFA PvP with full loot.
In such a game, failing to get in when it releases is a death sentence for the gamer serious about being totally involved in its structure. Its the kind of difference that decides whether or not you and your friends can one day make a city of your own...or be forced to suffer begging another group of players to let you be a part of theirs. Its the difference of being able to grow and learn on even ground...or be torn and beaten every step of the way. In such a game, for the serious FFA PvP player, you MUST get in when the game hits.
This, you see, changes everything. Tasos has a strong upper hand in the financial equation here...he knows he can get his money upfront, and that the serious player will have to simply eat it. He is not obligated to provide us ANY information, and is standing in a position where doing so would likely cost him more money than it could ever earn. At this exact moment, whether intentional or not, he has manuevered the situation such that, against everything he has ever said, he can, in fact, screw every last serious player this game could hope to have.
Worse, the hunger for such a game is so great now...that he stands the greatest chance of any to actually pull it off. The laws which govern and protect consumers are not yet internet friendly...as of right now all he MUST provide is a game which has features that, in some way or form, match those he says will be in the game as of now. They don't have to be good, they don't have to function, and they don't have to be enjoyable even. There simply aren't laws to protect the consumer of entertainment well enough to provide a reasonable case against such fraud. Even if such fraud is unintentional....or decidedly undesired.
At this point, I must agree. Its time to open this can of worms and see what its biology REALLY is. The moment he mouthed the word "Pre-order" the time had come. FFA games demand it, and its a very dangerous place for us all to be right now. As of now we are forced to choose between being guaranteed a spot in the game at all....or playing it safe and never getting to be a part of the game in the way we've all dreamed about because we have to wait too long, and allow every other player months of headway against our every desire.
Where do you think I came up with the requirement for a website? 6 screenshots? 1000 words? In fact, TWICE today in two separate threads (see post 260 and 262 here) and in this thread... I have linked that very same page and referred to those rules. In both cases specifically replying to YOU. You missed that? Look Stradden, I know Darkfall apparently meets the (current) criteria. No dispute there.
But what we are saying is that Darkfall has exposed a massive hole in the rules. I say again: Does Darkfall meet the MMORPG.com requirements to be listed here?
THAT is the question.
You say yes. I say: How do you know?
All the information we have comes from one source. The "developer".
Again, do you know ANYONE who can confirm what this developer says Darkfall can do?
You are in the business... you must know someone who knows someone? Now, maybe it's all true and Darkfall IS the second coming? (That would be great TBH)
Then again, maybe it's all a massive fraud? How do we know? How do you know? A year into development - okay - maybe you could let this slide...
But 9 years? Be objective please and think about it. If you have an independent source then please share with the community? And maybe it's time to look at the requirements to have your game listed on this site and close out the loophole where games which are no more than pipe dreams and concept art can sneak in?
As I've already said, the game meets our criteria.
They have shown us the required screenshots. They have shown us gameplay videos, etc. Could these be faked? I suppose so, but that's true of almost anything. Anything can be faked. I've seen live demos of games that either a) didn't exist or b) turned out to be nothing like the demo I saw originally.
There are currently many games on the In Development list that I haven't actually seen in motion: Star Wars: The Old Republic, for example. Are you suggesting that it should not be on our Game List? It's a slippery slope that you're proposing and it just doesn't make sense in practical terms.
You don't like the fact that the game has been in development for such a protracted amount of time. That's fine and is a perfectly valid concern. We make no bones about that fact and have even asked the developers questions about it in interviews. If you didn't like the answer, that's fine but it's a bone you have to pick with the developer, not with us.
We list games so that we can cover them, and let people know that they are out there. If the business practice of any game is in question, we'll report on that. If any game on our list proves to be a scam, we'll be the first to report on it (or we'll try to be), remove it instantly and take any other action that is appropriate and necessary.
The problem is, what you propose is an assumption of guilt whereas innocent until proven guilty is our approach.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical. It's a healthy response any time you're told anything by someone trying to sell you a product, but skepticism doesn't invalidate a game's listing.
We'll give you our opinions and give you whatever information we have about a game. In the end, it's up to you to decide what you buy. We try to lend a hand to people who are looking for their next MMO, but we don't dictate where people spend their money. That's up to you to decide.
Again, the listing of a game isn't a commentary on the game's quality and it isn't a commentary on the game's development cycle, it isn't even a commentary on a game's business practices. It is simply saying that the game is out there, and that we should talk about it. If ANY game is PROVEN to be a legitimate scam, we will act accordingly. Until then, it's best to have a dialogue about it.
I've read through this thread, and taken a moment to sit back and think on some of it for awhile. I let the information, and concepts presented, sink in and stir around in my head for a bit. Then, I asked myself a very important question. "Protect us from what?" It was at that moment that I realized something. In most MMORPG's...there is nothing to be protected from. You lose nothing by waiting and simply seeing what actually comes of a game when it releases, indeed...such a plan should be expected from all of us at this point. What, then, makes Darkfall different to the point of needing to look at it differently? I can tell you. FFA PvP with full loot. In such a game, failing to get in when it releases is a death sentence for the gamer serious about being totally involved in its structure. Its the kind of difference that decides whether or not you and your friends can one day make a city of your own...or be forced to suffer begging another group of players to let you be a part of theirs. Its the difference of being able to grow and learn on even ground...or be torn and beaten every step of the way. In such a game, for the serious FFA PvP player, you MUST get in when the game hits. This, you see, changes everything. Tasos has a strong upper hand in the financial equation here...he knows he can get his money upfront, and that the serious player will have to simply eat it. He is not obligated to provide us ANY information, and is standing in a position where doing so would likely cost him more money than it could ever earn. At this exact moment, whether intentional or not, he has manuevered the situation such that, against everything he has ever said, he can, in fact, screw every last serious player this game could hope to have. Worse, the hunger for such a game is so great now...that he stands the greatest chance of any to actually pull it off. The laws which govern and protect consumers are not yet internet friendly...as of right now all he MUST provide is a game which has features that, in some way or form, match those he says will be in the game as of now. They don't have to be good, they don't have to function, and they don't have to be enjoyable even. There simply aren't laws to protect the consumer of entertainment well enough to provide a reasonable case against such fraud. Even if such fraud is unintentional....or decidedly undesired. At this point, I must agree. Its time to open this can of worms and see what its biology REALLY is. The moment he mouthed the word "Pre-order" the time had come. FFA games demand it, and its a very dangerous place for us all to be right now. As of now we are forced to choose between being guaranteed a spot in the game at all....or playing it safe and never getting to be a part of the game in the way we've all dreamed about because we have to wait too long, and allow every other player months of headway against our every desire.
Everything thing you say is true, if the grind to get the skills that will make a person a good player is steep. If the grind is shallow, then there isn't any reason a late commer(s) couldn't succeeded. Also, the game is said to be designed in such a way to allow small guilds to build their city and have their little piece of heaven, hell, niche, territory and protect it for better or worse. But, until the game is launched and/or we have information we won't know for sure.
I've read through this thread, and taken a moment to sit back and think on some of it for awhile. I let the information, and concepts presented, sink in and stir around in my head for a bit. Then, I asked myself a very important question. "Protect us from what?" It was at that moment that I realized something. In most MMORPG's...there is nothing to be protected from. You lose nothing by waiting and simply seeing what actually comes of a game when it releases, indeed...such a plan should be expected from all of us at this point. What, then, makes Darkfall different to the point of needing to look at it differently? I can tell you. FFA PvP with full loot. In such a game, failing to get in when it releases is a death sentence for the gamer serious about being totally involved in its structure. Its the kind of difference that decides whether or not you and your friends can one day make a city of your own...or be forced to suffer begging another group of players to let you be a part of theirs. Its the difference of being able to grow and learn on even ground...or be torn and beaten every step of the way. In such a game, for the serious FFA PvP player, you MUST get in when the game hits. This, you see, changes everything. Tasos has a strong upper hand in the financial equation here...he knows he can get his money upfront, and that the serious player will have to simply eat it. He is not obligated to provide us ANY information, and is standing in a position where doing so would likely cost him more money than it could ever earn. At this exact moment, whether intentional or not, he has manuevered the situation such that, against everything he has ever said, he can, in fact, screw every last serious player this game could hope to have. Worse, the hunger for such a game is so great now...that he stands the greatest chance of any to actually pull it off. The laws which govern and protect consumers are not yet internet friendly...as of right now all he MUST provide is a game which has features that, in some way or form, match those he says will be in the game as of now. They don't have to be good, they don't have to function, and they don't have to be enjoyable even. There simply aren't laws to protect the consumer of entertainment well enough to provide a reasonable case against such fraud. Even if such fraud is unintentional....or decidedly undesired. At this point, I must agree. Its time to open this can of worms and see what its biology REALLY is. The moment he mouthed the word "Pre-order" the time had come. FFA games demand it, and its a very dangerous place for us all to be right now. As of now we are forced to choose between being guaranteed a spot in the game at all....or playing it safe and never getting to be a part of the game in the way we've all dreamed about because we have to wait too long, and allow every other player months of headway against our every desire.
Everything thing you say is true, if the grind to get the skills that will make a person a good player is steep. If the grind is shallow, then there isn't any reason a late commer(s) couldn't succeeded. Also, the game is said to be designed in such a way to allow small guilds to build their city and have their little piece of heaven, hell, niche, territory and protect it for better or worse. But, until the game is launched and/or we have information we won't know for sure.
Good post. +4
Thank you very much. The most important part of of what you just said was "Until its launched we won't know for sure". That statement makes the situation even worse, and almost forces the serious player to be SURE to get in fast. Without the guarantee that there IS plenty of space, and a shallow curve, these serious players can't afford to wait.
We all know that the word of a dev is never a guarantee either....*sigh*. I feel really bad for the serious FFA gamers out there right now. Its a sucky place to be for them.
Preorder without showing the game first to serious gaming magazines and reviewers. This constitute fraud!
Looking at what Stradden said earlier, representing MMORPG.com and all... it doesn't look like MMORPG.com is even putting a lot of effort in this media anti-explosion case. A shame. I think they need to fix their standards of press coverage and investigation. What happened to investigative journalism?
Would you like me to put on a disguise, take aprivate jet to their offices, sneak in and take pictures with my mini spy cam?
It's not like we haven't looked into this, or did you miss the editorial, or the most recent interview?
Don't you ever use Freelancers?
Why not use the amazing resource at your fingertips and find an independent you know or feel you can trust who lives in or near Greece? You could even ask here!
For example - IIRC the Editor of "Strategy Informer" was either in Romania or Checkoslovakia?
(not claiming Strategy Informer is exactly reliable BTW - but I know they have people in that part of the world)
And why be underhand?
No spy cams. Just make an appointment. Walk in - sit down and interview.
Oh, you can't get an appointment?
Why do you think that is?
And doesn't the requirement for listing on this site include "press contact information"?
Ah yes... but it doesn't say they actualy have to proide any information via that link does it? Woops.
I've read through this thread, and taken a moment to sit back and think on some of it for awhile. I let the information, and concepts presented, sink in and stir around in my head for a bit. Then, I asked myself a very important question. "Protect us from what?" It was at that moment that I realized something. In most MMORPG's...there is nothing to be protected from. You lose nothing by waiting and simply seeing what actually comes of a game when it releases, indeed...such a plan should be expected from all of us at this point. What, then, makes Darkfall different to the point of needing to look at it differently? I can tell you. FFA PvP with full loot. In such a game, failing to get in when it releases is a death sentence for the gamer serious about being totally involved in its structure. Its the kind of difference that decides whether or not you and your friends can one day make a city of your own...or be forced to suffer begging another group of players to let you be a part of theirs. Its the difference of being able to grow and learn on even ground...or be torn and beaten every step of the way. In such a game, for the serious FFA PvP player, you MUST get in when the game hits. This, you see, changes everything. Tasos has a strong upper hand in the financial equation here...he knows he can get his money upfront, and that the serious player will have to simply eat it. He is not obligated to provide us ANY information, and is standing in a position where doing so would likely cost him more money than it could ever earn. At this exact moment, whether intentional or not, he has manuevered the situation such that, against everything he has ever said, he can, in fact, screw every last serious player this game could hope to have. Worse, the hunger for such a game is so great now...that he stands the greatest chance of any to actually pull it off. The laws which govern and protect consumers are not yet internet friendly...as of right now all he MUST provide is a game which has features that, in some way or form, match those he says will be in the game as of now. They don't have to be good, they don't have to function, and they don't have to be enjoyable even. There simply aren't laws to protect the consumer of entertainment well enough to provide a reasonable case against such fraud. Even if such fraud is unintentional....or decidedly undesired. At this point, I must agree. Its time to open this can of worms and see what its biology REALLY is. The moment he mouthed the word "Pre-order" the time had come. FFA games demand it, and its a very dangerous place for us all to be right now. As of now we are forced to choose between being guaranteed a spot in the game at all....or playing it safe and never getting to be a part of the game in the way we've all dreamed about because we have to wait too long, and allow every other player months of headway against our every desire.
Everything thing you say is true, if the grind to get the skills that will make a person a good player is steep. If the grind is shallow, then there isn't any reason a late commer(s) couldn't succeeded. Also, the game is said to be designed in such a way to allow small guilds to build their city and have their little piece of heaven, hell, niche, territory and protect it for better or worse. But, until the game is launched and/or we have information we won't know for sure.
Good post. +4
Thank you very much. The most important part of of what you just said was "Until its launched we won't know for sure". That statement makes the situation even worse, and almost forces the serious player to be SURE to get in fast. Without the guarantee that there IS plenty of space, and a shallow curve, these serious players can't afford to wait. We all know that the word of a dev is never a guarantee either....*sigh*. I feel really bad for the serious FFA gamers out there right now. Its a sucky place to be for them.
Well I didn't mention this, but there are a couple work arounds. The people who are skeptical could just wait for the new servers to be launched since they are doing a limited release. Also, NA players can wait for the NA launch.
Thank you very much. The most important part of of what you just said was "Until its launched we won't know for sure". That statement makes the situation even worse, and almost forces the serious player to be SURE to get in fast. Without the guarantee that there IS plenty of space, and a shallow curve, these serious players can't afford to wait.
We all know that the word of a dev is never a guarantee either....*sigh*. I feel really bad for the serious FFA gamers out there right now. Its a sucky place to be for them.
Well I didn't mention this, but there are a couple work arounds. The people who are skeptical could just wait for the new servers to be launched since they are doing a limited release. Also, NA players can wait for the NA launch.
I was under the impression that they are attempting to do a "EVE" style server set-up. Perhaps I am mistaken, though. I do that on occasion :P
NA players could wait for a NA launch. This is true, and would be well worth doing for all NA players. OF course, that doesn't help EU guys out. It could also be a long while before NA servers come out...so I doubt any are going to wait around, especially since (as I recall, no promises from me on this) Tasos said he would try to work something out so that NA players could go ahead and get in on this now...and then work on getting them moved to the NA servers once they are up.
That would bring us back to the initial problem again. Mind you, I don't actually think the problem is that he is going to pull a DnL on us. The biggest problem is inside the position he has placed his consumers. Basically that they either bite the bullet....or eat lead later for it. 5 years ago this might have never even been an issue. Today, though, this market is super shakey...and its consumer is nervous, scared, and timid. Even greater than the concern that he could basically steal a few people's money is the worry that, because he won't come off some information and media play time, very few will even bother paying any money for it....assuring that the game will not take back some of its losses and slow any forward progression to a halt.
In the MMO world, that usually means death....even to a really great game with really great ideals. So in one hand we have players losing money on a bad buy...and in the other we have a really great game that is going to die almost immediately due to deathly low initial gamer investment. Neither of these seem like terribly desired destinations for this game to land in.
Don't you ever use Freelancers? Why not use the amazing resource at your fingertips and find an independent you know or feel you can trust who lives in or near Greece? You could even ask here! For example - IIRC the Editor of "Strategy Informer" was either in Romania or Checkoslovakia?
(not claiming Strategy Informer is exactly reliable BTW - but I know they have people in that part of the world) And why be underhand? No spy cams. Just make an appointment. Walk in - sit down and interview.
Oh, you can't get an appointment? Why do you think that is?
And doesn't the requirement for listing on this site include "press contact information"? Ah yes... but it doesn't say they actualy have to proide any information via that link does it? Woops.
We have press contact information. We obviously have this because we have had interviews with the dev team. Yes, our requirements make it a necessity, but what they DON'T say is that the developer must tell us everything we want to know exactly when we want to know it. I can't, unfortunately, bend people to my will.
As to the underhandedness, I was pretty obviously making a joke there.
As to a freelancer that I can trust in that part of the world. you may be surprised to find that this thought has not eluded my attention.
I feel that I have responded in full to your questions in this thread and I have done so in a professional and thorough manner. You don't like my answers. That's fine, that's your perogative, but, as it seems to be getting us nowhere, I will not be replying further.
I leave you with this... again. Neither Darkfall nor any other game will be removed from our game list until such time, should it arise, as we are given actual cause to do so, nor will we be revising our game list criteria.
Anyone remember seeing UO at E3 and buying and playing the game when it came out? If the answer is yes how much of UO did you really know about it before logging in and not info about the ultima series, the actual UO game.
Darkfall could be a pretty sweet game, but it would be nice if mmorpg.com could get some of their staff in the beta.
As to the underhandedness, I was pretty obviously making a joke there. As to a freelancer that I can trust in that part of the world. you may be surprised to find that this thought has not eluded my attention.
Well, that's good to know. The problem is that your posts (to me anyway) appear to have alternated from one extreme to another?
At one end - a competent and (MMO) experienced Editor - to the other - an almost impotent victim incapable of comprehension?
Perhaps I just don't get your sense of humor?
I feel that I have responded in full to your questions in this thread and I have done so in a professional and thorough manner. You don't like my answers. That's fine, that's your perogative, but, as it seems to be getting us nowhere, I will not be replying further.
Hmmm... this is more at the latter end.
My questions stand unanswered:
. Can you verify that Darkfall meets the criteria set out for listing on this site?
. Can you verify with anyone( independent of the developer) this game actually exists beyond a concept and idea? I leave you with this... again. Neither Darkfall nor any other game will be removed from our game list until such time, should it arise, as we are given actual cause to do so, nor will we be revising our game list criteria. Thank you for you input and your time.
Fair enough.
I'll bookmark this thread. In a month one of us will be able to say "I told you so".
If it's me, perhaps we can discuss reveiwing the rules then?
I very much understand your concern. What does it hurt? What if they are covering up stuff, IF something is broke in it, or its just brutal to play, they dont want free press in telling everyone that game is awfull for w/e reason. Thats one of many red flags that I am refering to in my quote that you quoted. So IF its released with the information we have today, and you buy it, you have ignored a MAJOR red flag and deserve what you get. You have a choice buy it or dont buy it based on the information we have/get.
Sure. I agree with that.
Personally, I want to see this game come out and I'd like to see it succeed, not because I plan on playing it at all (FFA PvP with full loot isn't my thing), but because I'm all in favor of a wide variety of games on the market that cater to a wide variety of gamers. Thing is, I don't like the secrecy surrounding Darkfall so close to a purported release, and especially if people are being asked to start handing over money soon.
I just find it patently absurd that one week from a supposed trial period, and just over a month from an announced release, we really don't know that much about this game at all, and there's been next to no media access to it at all, particularly from any truly objective sources. I think that's something that Aventurine needs to change, and fast.
I am pesonaly sick of people talking about the free-trial come the 22nd. It baffels to me as why people still believe anything about DF with its past.
I can understand that. The only reason I'm giving the Jan. 22nd date the benefit of the doubt for a trial is because there's no pretense of it being the full retail release date anymore. They've admitted they're nowhere near ready for launch, since even their basic infrastructure (billing, support, etc.) isn't in place at all. Now, the 22nd is the starting date for an extended beta period, presumably with thousands more players in the game. That would suggest a lifting of the NDA to me, so more information would get out.
If that trial period doesn't happen, and/or the NDA is still in place once it starts, then I'd really start to wonder about this game making it to Feb. 25th at all. They've got a hell of a lot to do between now and then as it is so the date is iffy to begin with. Throw in any delays at starting that trial period, or in lifting the NDA to get information out to players, and more people will become wary as the days count down.
I will believe it only when people are able to log in and play, and tell us about it. Until then its just more smooth talking to smooth over the fanbase with a new excuss to come on the 22nd.
I think that's the attitude most people have. It's the same attitude folks had about Chinese Democracy, and that they have about Duke Nukem Forever-- it's vapor until it's officially released in stores, or if they see real information out there from real players, unrestricted by an NDA and out there for everyone to see.
It's now five days until the 22nd. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I have one question. If it's vaporware, scam or whatever, why did it take so long for them to release it? Why did they continue working on it , and didnt release it two years ago? They could as easily take the money and run then as they could now.
It is the job of an mmo's marketing department to exaggerate the assets of a product and get as many pre-orders as possible whilst crushing the credibility of negative reviews (pre-release).
It is sad when 15 year olds and some 35 year olds fall for this and don't see it for what it is - a type of gambling with very bad odds. Given the complexity of the human condition what are the chances that a company will produce a game that will meet all of your needs without having even asked you what those are?
mmorpg.com is a monetized web site. Whilst everyone was slamming AoC pre-release, mmorpg.com converted its entire web site to an AoC advert. You are not going to get much sympathy or action for your 'cause'.
There is no substitute for your own will-power and common sense, I don't mean to troll you but I encourage you to just not purchase the game if you're *this* conflicted over your decision.
-- Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
I have one question. If it's vaporware, scam or whatever, why did it take so long for them to release it? Why did they continue working on it , and didnt release it two years ago? They could as easily take the money and run then as they could now.
Because the money isn't so much from pre-orders as it is from getting money from investors to fund development. Any development company would be happy to say in development as long as possible to make the best game they can. It's the bean counters and money men which eventually force it out the door to get their return.
Ugh, sorry Stradden, my laptop was acting up today and I missed this post earlier - so I will address it now.
....As I've already said, the game meets our criteria.
I think I have covered this. So I'll let it be and agree to differ.
....
You don't like the fact that the game has been in development for such a protracted amount of time. That's fine and is a perfectly valid concern. We make no bones about that fact and have even asked the developers questions about it in interviews. If you didn't like the answer, that's fine but it's a bone you have to pick with the developer, not with us.
No. I have no issue with development time. With this or any other game. FWIW I also follow Infinity:Quest for Earth and that game has been in development for ages too. The difference is, I have seen evidence that the developers of that game are actually trying to produce a game AND that they have the knowledge and skill to do so. For that game there is a 'Combat Prototype' many people have played. Yeah, that is not the final game and not an MMO, but it does show there are real programmers with real working code there somewhere.
But with Darkfall, no-one outside a bunch of cronies (correct word in this case) can say they have seen anything that works?
Again, not too much of a concern early in development... but we are not early in development are we?
...
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical. It's a healthy response any time you're told anything by someone trying to sell you a product, but skepticism doesn't invalidate a game's listing.
We'll give you our opinions and give you whatever information we have about a game. In the end, it's up to you to decide what you buy. We try to lend a hand to people who are looking for their next MMO, but we don't dictate where people spend their money. That's up to you to decide.
My concern here is not for myself. I never buy MMOs (or any computer game) until I see player reviews.
But a listing here gives a title a certain 'legitimacy'. That is something MMORPG.com should be proud of and strive to protect - because without it this site is just another Blog site with an attached forum of whiners...
There are people out there who will buy this game based on the fact it is listed here.
Again, the listing of a game isn't a commentary on the game's quality and it isn't a commentary on the game's development cycle, it isn't even a commentary on a game's business practices. It is simply saying that the game is out there, and that we should talk about it. If ANY game is PROVEN to be a legitimate scam, we will act accordingly. Until then, it's best to have a dialogue about it.
I have one question. If it's vaporware, scam or whatever, why did it take so long for them to release it? Why did they continue working on it , and didnt release it two years ago? They could as easily take the money and run then as they could now.
Or... they could sit back and take it easy... and collect the salary for years and years?
And when it all collapses... they were just employees and did nothing "wrong".
Taking the money and running tends to attract the attention of police?
Every so often you hear about some government department or employee that has milked the system like this.
In the state where I live they found a guy about 5 years ago who had a government job, with his own office, desk, phone, computer and parking space. He went to work every day and went to every interstate conference.
And he did nothing.
They had restructured the department he was in years before and he had no work to do.
When they asked him why he didn't tell anyone he said he thought they would assign him any day... and he was ready!
Don't you ever use Freelancers? Why not use the amazing resource at your fingertips and find an independent you know or feel you can trust who lives in or near Greece? You could even ask here! For example - IIRC the Editor of "Strategy Informer" was either in Romania or Checkoslovakia?
(not claiming Strategy Informer is exactly reliable BTW - but I know they have people in that part of the world) And why be underhand? No spy cams. Just make an appointment. Walk in - sit down and interview.
Oh, you can't get an appointment? Why do you think that is?
And doesn't the requirement for listing on this site include "press contact information"? Ah yes... but it doesn't say they actualy have to proide any information via that link does it? Woops.
We have press contact information. We obviously have this because we have had interviews with the dev team. Yes, our requirements make it a necessity, but what they DON'T say is that the developer must tell us everything we want to know exactly when we want to know it. I can't, unfortunately, bend people to my will.
As to the underhandedness, I was pretty obviously making a joke there.
As to a freelancer that I can trust in that part of the world. you may be surprised to find that this thought has not eluded my attention.
I feel that I have responded in full to your questions in this thread and I have done so in a professional and thorough manner. You don't like my answers. That's fine, that's your perogative, but, as it seems to be getting us nowhere, I will not be replying further.
I leave you with this... again. Neither Darkfall nor any other game will be removed from our game list until such time, should it arise, as we are given actual cause to do so, nor will we be revising our game list criteria.
Thank you for you input and your time.
Well to answer your previous question about the new Star Wars game. The answer is easy (and in your list). It is being made by Bioware, a major studio. There is always a chance it will get cancelled, but there is no way it is a scam.
I'm done with this thread, the only thing I'll say on the way out is that I really hope you consider doing a tough editorial when there is no 'free trial' on the 22nd and Tasos continues with his plan to take pre-order money. This site does legitimize Darkfall by having it listed as a real game, which makes it easier for Tasos to scam people.
This is starting to get silly. MMORPG.com's staff is not some kind of MMO police. Stop getting so hysterical about a game lol. All this stacking assumption on assumption mixed with conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. It is just stupid to take any decision from a MMO company so personally.
They should turn this thread into a soap opera. Women would love the drama!
Comments
Of course no one is being forced to buy this game. Last I checked, no one's forced to buy any game at all.
The point is, by this point in an MMO's development, there is generally some kind of open media access to a game. We're not talking about in-depth spoilers or anything, either-- just a reporter from a reputable outlet being allowed to see the game in person and play it, take their own screen shots and videos, or even spend a day or two fiddling around with the beta client so they can talk about their experiences in the game for others.
Yes, I know-- the MMORPG Italia guys got to do that. Good for them. How about a similar chance for a major English-speaking media outlet either in the EU or NA, particularly since they're about to go to some sort of trial phase on January 22nd, with a release set for Feb. 25th? Some kind of hands-on media exposure in the month before release isn't a bad thing.
Right now, the only beta "updates" come from someone whose website just happens to be hosted on Aventurine's servers, and who is close friends with the staff. That doesn't count for anything. It would be better if someone with no connection at all to the devs gave an objective, hands-on impression of Darkfall. Those kinds of outside hands-on media demos would go a long, long way to easing the fears that some have, and would answer many of the questions surrounding this game. Why not go for it? What does it hurt?
Of course no one is being forced to buy this game. Last I checked, no one's forced to buy any game at all.
The point is, by this point in an MMO's development, there is generally some kind of open media access to a game. We're not talking about in-depth spoilers or anything, either-- just a reporter from a reputable outlet being allowed to see the game in person and play it, take their own screen shots and videos, or even spend a day or two fiddling around with the beta client so they can talk about their experiences in the game for others.
Yes, I know-- the MMORPG Italia guys got to do that. Good for them. How about a similar chance for a major English-speaking media outlet either in the EU or NA, particularly since they're about to go to some sort of trial phase on January 22nd, with a release set for Feb. 25th? Some kind of hands-on media exposure in the month before release isn't a bad thing.
Right now, the only beta "updates" come from someone whose website just happens to be hosted on Aventurine's servers, and who is close friends with the staff. That doesn't count for anything. It would be better if someone with no connection at all to the devs gave an objective, hands-on impression of Darkfall. Those kinds of outside hands-on media demos would go a long, long way to easing the fears that some have, and would answer many of the questions surrounding this game. Why not go for it? What does it hurt?
I very much understand your concern. What does it hurt? What if they are covering up stuff, IF something is broke in it, or its just brutal to play, they dont want free press in telling everyone that game is awfull for w/e reason. Thats one of many red flags that I am refering to in my quote that you quoted. So IF its released with the information we have today, and you buy it, you have ignored a MAJOR red flag and deserve what you get. You have a choice buy it or dont buy it based on the information we have/get.
I am pesonaly sick of people talking about the free-trial come the 22nd. It baffels to me as why people still believe anything about DF with its past. I will believe it only when people are able to log in and play, and tell us about it. Until then its just more smooth talking to smooth over the fanbase with a new excuss to come on the 22nd.
His words were to vague like ALWAYS, another red-flag.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Fair enough.
But if MMORPG.com wishes to maintain any pretense of being impatial then they have to list ANY GAME presented to them that meets the current criteria based on Developer claims.
You don't need any qualifications to be a Developer.
Any mug can create a website these days - even one with a white border.
Photoshop a few screenies.
Write 1000 words on your plans.
And by what Stradden is saying... they can not / will not de-list any game unless it is proven to be a fraud?
Hmmm....
I think the "Games in Development" list is about to explode?
And forget about this site having any credibility. But hey, we are just reporting the news... right?
Here are our requirements: http://www.mmorpg.com/faq.cfm/showFaq/4
Why not take a look.
Where do you think I came up with the requirement for a website? 6 screenshots? 1000 words?
In fact, TWICE today in two separate threads (see post 260 and 262 here) and in this thread... I have linked that very same page and referred to those rules. In both cases specifically replying to YOU.
You missed that?
Look Stradden, I know Darkfall apparently meets the (current) criteria. No dispute there.
But what we are saying is that Darkfall has exposed a massive hole in the rules.
I say again: Does Darkfall meet the MMORPG.com requirements to be listed here?
THAT is the question.
You say yes. I say: How do you know?
All the information we have comes from one source. The "developer".
Again, do you know ANYONE who can confirm what this developer says Darkfall can do?
You are in the business... you must know someone who knows someone?
Now, maybe it's all true and Darkfall IS the second coming? (That would be great TBH)
Then again, maybe it's all a massive fraud?
How do we know? How do you know?
A year into development - okay - maybe you could let this slide...
But 9 years?
Be objective please and think about it. If you have an independent source then please share with the community?
And maybe it's time to look at the requirements to have your game listed on this site and close out the loophole where games which are no more than pipe dreams and concept art can sneak in?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Fair enough.
But if MMORPG.com wishes to maintain any pretense of being impatial then they have to list ANY GAME presented to them that meets the current criteria based on Developer claims.
You don't need any qualifications to be a Developer.
Any mug can create a website these days - even one with a white border.
Photoshop a few screenies.
Write 1000 words on your plans.
And by what Stradden is saying... they can not / will not de-list any game unless it is proven to be a fraud?
Hmmm....
I think the "Games in Development" list is about to explode?
And forget about this site having any credibility. But hey, we are just reporting the news... right?
Here are our requirements: http://www.mmorpg.com/faq.cfm/showFaq/4
Why not take a look.
Where do you think I came up with the requirement for a website? 6 screenshots? 1000 words?
In fact, TWICE today in two separate threads (see post 260 and 262 here) and in this thread... I have linked that very same page and referred to those rules. In both cases specifically replying to YOU.
You missed that?
Look Stradden, I know Darkfall apparently meets the (current) criteria. No dispute there.
But what we are saying is that Darkfall has exposed a massive hole in the rules.
I say again: Does Darkfall meet the MMORPG.com requirements to be listed here?
THAT is the question.
You say yes. I say: How do you know?
All the information we have comes from one source. The "developer".
Again, do you know ANYONE who can confirm what this developer says Darkfall can do?
You are in the business... you must know someone who knows someone?
Now, maybe it's all true and Darkfall IS the second coming? (That would be great TBH)
Then again, maybe it's all a massive fraud?
How do we know? How do you know?
A year into development - okay - maybe you could let this slide...
But 9 years?
Be objective please and think about it. If you have an independent source then please share with the community?
And maybe it's time to look at the requirements to have your game listed on this site and close out the loophole where games which are no more than pipe dreams and concept art can sneak in?
While were at it why dont we just remove the new star wars, eathgate, star-trek, and just about all of the other games in this list here minus a few that there is outside proof:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/development
god forbid that some people actually come here to find out information on a game in development. And not take whats written here as set in stone.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I miss Wish. The day we all got laid off from that sucked... Same day you all dound out, by the way. That game was also in beta, with a few delays and having been there personally, I can assure eveeryone it wasn't a scam... Though as I recall tehre were a lot of people saying it was at the time. Trust me, there were trolls.
I just wanted to say that I miss wish too, I was milking a cow or perhaps it was a goat to make some cheese when the beta server went down for the last time and even though it was only a sojourn into the virtual dairy industry it gave me a brief glimpse into the possibilities of interweb cheese making that I will always treasure fondly as well as many other halcyon wish memories.
I also wanted to just say thankyou for allowing people to express their opinions and nurturing free speech, grass root consumer action, balanced and fair but flexible moderation in moderation etc. etc. which makes this site so super duper especially in such tricky dickey situations like this whole Darkfall enigma thingy.
If you are expecting me to say "No. They should stay!" then sorry to disappoint you...
Yes, they should go too.
Nothing to stop you discussing these games in the 'general discussion' area of the forum.
That is - until they show proof of concept. A working title at Alpha testing stage. Independently verified.
If this game has shown us nothing else it is that the rules have a couple of loopholes and MMORPG.com needs tighter standards.
Maybe 5 years ago it might have been okay to use these rules?
But now, any kid with standard off the shelf software can;
I was tempted to do it myself to prove a point here... but I think you know I am right so why waste a weekend to prove it? A weekend is all it would take some people, maybe less?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I've read through this thread, and taken a moment to sit back and think on some of it for awhile. I let the information, and concepts presented, sink in and stir around in my head for a bit. Then, I asked myself a very important question.
"Protect us from what?"
It was at that moment that I realized something. In most MMORPG's...there is nothing to be protected from. You lose nothing by waiting and simply seeing what actually comes of a game when it releases, indeed...such a plan should be expected from all of us at this point. What, then, makes Darkfall different to the point of needing to look at it differently? I can tell you.
FFA PvP with full loot.
In such a game, failing to get in when it releases is a death sentence for the gamer serious about being totally involved in its structure. Its the kind of difference that decides whether or not you and your friends can one day make a city of your own...or be forced to suffer begging another group of players to let you be a part of theirs. Its the difference of being able to grow and learn on even ground...or be torn and beaten every step of the way. In such a game, for the serious FFA PvP player, you MUST get in when the game hits.
This, you see, changes everything. Tasos has a strong upper hand in the financial equation here...he knows he can get his money upfront, and that the serious player will have to simply eat it. He is not obligated to provide us ANY information, and is standing in a position where doing so would likely cost him more money than it could ever earn. At this exact moment, whether intentional or not, he has manuevered the situation such that, against everything he has ever said, he can, in fact, screw every last serious player this game could hope to have.
Worse, the hunger for such a game is so great now...that he stands the greatest chance of any to actually pull it off. The laws which govern and protect consumers are not yet internet friendly...as of right now all he MUST provide is a game which has features that, in some way or form, match those he says will be in the game as of now. They don't have to be good, they don't have to function, and they don't have to be enjoyable even. There simply aren't laws to protect the consumer of entertainment well enough to provide a reasonable case against such fraud. Even if such fraud is unintentional....or decidedly undesired.
At this point, I must agree. Its time to open this can of worms and see what its biology REALLY is. The moment he mouthed the word "Pre-order" the time had come. FFA games demand it, and its a very dangerous place for us all to be right now. As of now we are forced to choose between being guaranteed a spot in the game at all....or playing it safe and never getting to be a part of the game in the way we've all dreamed about because we have to wait too long, and allow every other player months of headway against our every desire.
As I've already said, the game meets our criteria.
They have shown us the required screenshots. They have shown us gameplay videos, etc. Could these be faked? I suppose so, but that's true of almost anything. Anything can be faked. I've seen live demos of games that either a) didn't exist or b) turned out to be nothing like the demo I saw originally.
There are currently many games on the In Development list that I haven't actually seen in motion: Star Wars: The Old Republic, for example. Are you suggesting that it should not be on our Game List? It's a slippery slope that you're proposing and it just doesn't make sense in practical terms.
You don't like the fact that the game has been in development for such a protracted amount of time. That's fine and is a perfectly valid concern. We make no bones about that fact and have even asked the developers questions about it in interviews. If you didn't like the answer, that's fine but it's a bone you have to pick with the developer, not with us.
We list games so that we can cover them, and let people know that they are out there. If the business practice of any game is in question, we'll report on that. If any game on our list proves to be a scam, we'll be the first to report on it (or we'll try to be), remove it instantly and take any other action that is appropriate and necessary.
The problem is, what you propose is an assumption of guilt whereas innocent until proven guilty is our approach.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical. It's a healthy response any time you're told anything by someone trying to sell you a product, but skepticism doesn't invalidate a game's listing.
We'll give you our opinions and give you whatever information we have about a game. In the end, it's up to you to decide what you buy. We try to lend a hand to people who are looking for their next MMO, but we don't dictate where people spend their money. That's up to you to decide.
Again, the listing of a game isn't a commentary on the game's quality and it isn't a commentary on the game's development cycle, it isn't even a commentary on a game's business practices. It is simply saying that the game is out there, and that we should talk about it. If ANY game is PROVEN to be a legitimate scam, we will act accordingly. Until then, it's best to have a dialogue about it.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Everything thing you say is true, if the grind to get the skills that will make a person a good player is steep. If the grind is shallow, then there isn't any reason a late commer(s) couldn't succeeded. Also, the game is said to be designed in such a way to allow small guilds to build their city and have their little piece of heaven, hell, niche, territory and protect it for better or worse. But, until the game is launched and/or we have information we won't know for sure.
Good post. +4
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
vapour ware?
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Everything thing you say is true, if the grind to get the skills that will make a person a good player is steep. If the grind is shallow, then there isn't any reason a late commer(s) couldn't succeeded. Also, the game is said to be designed in such a way to allow small guilds to build their city and have their little piece of heaven, hell, niche, territory and protect it for better or worse. But, until the game is launched and/or we have information we won't know for sure.
Good post. +4
Thank you very much. The most important part of of what you just said was "Until its launched we won't know for sure". That statement makes the situation even worse, and almost forces the serious player to be SURE to get in fast. Without the guarantee that there IS plenty of space, and a shallow curve, these serious players can't afford to wait.
We all know that the word of a dev is never a guarantee either....*sigh*. I feel really bad for the serious FFA gamers out there right now. Its a sucky place to be for them.
Looking at what Stradden said earlier, representing MMORPG.com and all... it doesn't look like MMORPG.com is even putting a lot of effort in this media anti-explosion case. A shame. I think they need to fix their standards of press coverage and investigation. What happened to investigative journalism?
Would you like me to put on a disguise, take aprivate jet to their offices, sneak in and take pictures with my mini spy cam?
It's not like we haven't looked into this, or did you miss the editorial, or the most recent interview?
Don't you ever use Freelancers?
Why not use the amazing resource at your fingertips and find an independent you know or feel you can trust who lives in or near Greece? You could even ask here!
For example - IIRC the Editor of "Strategy Informer" was either in Romania or Checkoslovakia?
(not claiming Strategy Informer is exactly reliable BTW - but I know they have people in that part of the world)
And why be underhand?
No spy cams. Just make an appointment. Walk in - sit down and interview.
Oh, you can't get an appointment?
Why do you think that is?
And doesn't the requirement for listing on this site include "press contact information"?
Ah yes... but it doesn't say they actualy have to proide any information via that link does it? Woops.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Well I didn't mention this, but there are a couple work arounds. The people who are skeptical could just wait for the new servers to be launched since they are doing a limited release. Also, NA players can wait for the NA launch.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Well I didn't mention this, but there are a couple work arounds. The people who are skeptical could just wait for the new servers to be launched since they are doing a limited release. Also, NA players can wait for the NA launch.
I was under the impression that they are attempting to do a "EVE" style server set-up. Perhaps I am mistaken, though. I do that on occasion :P
NA players could wait for a NA launch. This is true, and would be well worth doing for all NA players. OF course, that doesn't help EU guys out. It could also be a long while before NA servers come out...so I doubt any are going to wait around, especially since (as I recall, no promises from me on this) Tasos said he would try to work something out so that NA players could go ahead and get in on this now...and then work on getting them moved to the NA servers once they are up.
That would bring us back to the initial problem again. Mind you, I don't actually think the problem is that he is going to pull a DnL on us. The biggest problem is inside the position he has placed his consumers. Basically that they either bite the bullet....or eat lead later for it. 5 years ago this might have never even been an issue. Today, though, this market is super shakey...and its consumer is nervous, scared, and timid. Even greater than the concern that he could basically steal a few people's money is the worry that, because he won't come off some information and media play time, very few will even bother paying any money for it....assuring that the game will not take back some of its losses and slow any forward progression to a halt.
In the MMO world, that usually means death....even to a really great game with really great ideals. So in one hand we have players losing money on a bad buy...and in the other we have a really great game that is going to die almost immediately due to deathly low initial gamer investment. Neither of these seem like terribly desired destinations for this game to land in.
We have press contact information. We obviously have this because we have had interviews with the dev team. Yes, our requirements make it a necessity, but what they DON'T say is that the developer must tell us everything we want to know exactly when we want to know it. I can't, unfortunately, bend people to my will.
As to the underhandedness, I was pretty obviously making a joke there.
As to a freelancer that I can trust in that part of the world. you may be surprised to find that this thought has not eluded my attention.
I feel that I have responded in full to your questions in this thread and I have done so in a professional and thorough manner. You don't like my answers. That's fine, that's your perogative, but, as it seems to be getting us nowhere, I will not be replying further.
I leave you with this... again. Neither Darkfall nor any other game will be removed from our game list until such time, should it arise, as we are given actual cause to do so, nor will we be revising our game list criteria.
Thank you for you input and your time.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Anyone remember seeing UO at E3 and buying and playing the game when it came out? If the answer is yes how much of UO did you really know about it before logging in and not info about the ultima series, the actual UO game.
Darkfall could be a pretty sweet game, but it would be nice if mmorpg.com could get some of their staff in the beta.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I have one question. If it's vaporware, scam or whatever, why did it take so long for them to release it? Why did they continue working on it , and didnt release it two years ago? They could as easily take the money and run then as they could now.
Ok I'll bite the troll bait.
It is the job of an mmo's marketing department to exaggerate the assets of a product and get as many pre-orders as possible whilst crushing the credibility of negative reviews (pre-release).
It is sad when 15 year olds and some 35 year olds fall for this and don't see it for what it is - a type of gambling with very bad odds. Given the complexity of the human condition what are the chances that a company will produce a game that will meet all of your needs without having even asked you what those are?
mmorpg.com is a monetized web site. Whilst everyone was slamming AoC pre-release, mmorpg.com converted its entire web site to an AoC advert. You are not going to get much sympathy or action for your 'cause'.
There is no substitute for your own will-power and common sense, I don't mean to troll you but I encourage you to just not purchase the game if you're *this* conflicted over your decision.
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Because the money isn't so much from pre-orders as it is from getting money from investors to fund development. Any development company would be happy to say in development as long as possible to make the best game they can. It's the bean counters and money men which eventually force it out the door to get their return.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Or... they could sit back and take it easy... and collect the salary for years and years?
And when it all collapses... they were just employees and did nothing "wrong".
Taking the money and running tends to attract the attention of police?
Every so often you hear about some government department or employee that has milked the system like this.
In the state where I live they found a guy about 5 years ago who had a government job, with his own office, desk, phone, computer and parking space. He went to work every day and went to every interstate conference.
And he did nothing.
They had restructured the department he was in years before and he had no work to do.
When they asked him why he didn't tell anyone he said he thought they would assign him any day... and he was ready!
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
We have press contact information. We obviously have this because we have had interviews with the dev team. Yes, our requirements make it a necessity, but what they DON'T say is that the developer must tell us everything we want to know exactly when we want to know it. I can't, unfortunately, bend people to my will.
As to the underhandedness, I was pretty obviously making a joke there.
As to a freelancer that I can trust in that part of the world. you may be surprised to find that this thought has not eluded my attention.
I feel that I have responded in full to your questions in this thread and I have done so in a professional and thorough manner. You don't like my answers. That's fine, that's your perogative, but, as it seems to be getting us nowhere, I will not be replying further.
I leave you with this... again. Neither Darkfall nor any other game will be removed from our game list until such time, should it arise, as we are given actual cause to do so, nor will we be revising our game list criteria.
Thank you for you input and your time.
Well to answer your previous question about the new Star Wars game. The answer is easy (and in your list). It is being made by Bioware, a major studio. There is always a chance it will get cancelled, but there is no way it is a scam.
I'm done with this thread, the only thing I'll say on the way out is that I really hope you consider doing a tough editorial when there is no 'free trial' on the 22nd and Tasos continues with his plan to take pre-order money. This site does legitimize Darkfall by having it listed as a real game, which makes it easier for Tasos to scam people.
This is starting to get silly. MMORPG.com's staff is not some kind of MMO police. Stop getting so hysterical about a game lol. All this stacking assumption on assumption mixed with conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. It is just stupid to take any decision from a MMO company so personally.
They should turn this thread into a soap opera. Women would love the drama!