If, say, an average player had $100,000 in his bank/home and upon death you lose about an average of $2,000 worth of items. Would this be acceptable? Or are you still afraid of losing this? If so, why?
Isn't it obvious?
For example: You work extremely hard for "X item", say you grinded several weeks just for this one item. Then one fateful day some a-hole comes and ganks you when you're fighting a mob or w/e and you lost that item. Now even though it may have been one item and you can get it back eventually, you just lost a months work...
So as you can clearly tell, it just sucks when you lose something you worked so hard to get. Some people might say, "well life's like that", well this isn't life, it's a game.
Point is, you DON'T work extremely hard for the items in this game. If it's anything like UO, no item takes a month's work to acquire.
That's not to say the items all suck... they do hold value. Just not insane "it took me a month to get this sword" type value.
If you ask me, even with NO-loot, I am not going to play a game that asks me to grind for a month just to get a good weapon.
yeah, i have to thank whoever posted the difference between "afraid" and "not fun"
no one is "afraid" of an MMO, i am afraid of wasting money, i am afraid of wasting time, and i am afraid of a good idea that doesn't work as well on contact as it looks on paper.
i am not trying to disrespect this game, but if you question darkfall or its unique mechanics, you are a "carebear" ...lol
guys, if you think you are tougher than anyone on the internet based on how much you pk, or how much you value your in game items, you are either a child, or very childish to think that such trivial shit could actually define you as a person.
Ok then let me skew it a bit differently. If I lose at monopoly or win at monopoly then that was a fun time and either way I've enjoyed it. If I lose at Chess or win at chess, the same thing. But even if I win at dark fall I say "so what". I don't want to loot anyone. no desire and don't get it. As another person said, it's just stuff to clog up my inventory and if it would cause them a bad play experience I would just assume not loot them. So then what is the point? Also, If I lose then I have to replace my gear. Not a big deal but after a while it's like "sigh, what else is on". I'd much rather do anything else. To many, winning or losing at darkfall is just that "so what, what else is on". It becomes tiresome either way because they just don't care about it. But if they like and enjoy monopoly then they care enough to play well and if they lose, no harm no foul. And let's put it this way,I've never heard of anyone winning in monopoly so they could hurt their opponent's ego. Some just aren't wired for that sense of accomplishment.
When I said the thing about "hurting an ego" I wasn't being entirely serious. And, I meant it within the context of a videogame. I don't want to punch the guy in the face if I see him, but sure, some people I would enjoy beating in a game more than others. Call it childish, but I think that's what drives a lot of competition - to be better than your opponent. Or to be good enough that you had fun dying/losing to said opponent.
It's also a form of release.
And so you don't want to loot anybody, then don't? Do you even want to PvP at all?
Monopoly is PvP. It's one human player versus another. You lose your stuff, and sigh, you have to try and get it back or lose altogether. If that turns you off, then so be it. But it's still the same as losing your gear. It doesn't mean you lost the game, it just means you have to get more gear.
It's really just an "icing on the cake" type feature. If I had nothing to lose when PvPing, then that's when I'd go see what was on tv.
I dont know why some of these people are so conecerned about PK's I for one joined a large clan of over 200 people , it is a anti-griefing clan as well for all you too helpless to help yourself we will be there to take care of those nasty griefers and straight up #%$(@ thats our job to police and protect it takes community to protect ourselves from this type of PVP abuse that everyone is whining about even though most wont even play this game they whine to just whine about it.
And to be honest, knowing a little something about his life, Gary Coleman would be very anti-full loot.
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
And to be honest, knowing a little something about his life, Gary Coleman would be very anti-full loot.
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
What happened to Gary was more like a scam. In which case he would support full loot so he could wtfpwn his parents and take his shit back.
And to be honest, knowing a little something about his life, Gary Coleman would be very anti-full loot.
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
What happened to Gary was more like a scam. In which case he would support full loot so he could wtfpwn his parents and take his shit back.
lol, ok, good point.
And Harmonica, that is the point I'm making... All games are person vs person (well, unless they are created as solo games) but the person playing the game has to care about the results, they have to want to win but not want to lose. This is what I'm talking about. They have to care about the game rules and results.
I love pvp (combat in games) but have no care of looting. So you say "then don't loot". fine but I also don't care about being looted as I think it's a "waste of time mechanic". So if I don't care about one of the winner perks and I find the losing perk a bit of a waste of time then the game is not for me and others.
Which gets bakc to your original assertion (why we are having this conversation) of people being afraid of looting. No one is "afraid". They just don't buy into this type of game mechanic and therefore have no interest in the game.
I played lineage 2 for 4+ years and there was no looting. I found the pvp fun. I also enjoyed the pvp in Warhammer and Guild Wars. Player vs Player combat.
There was winning and losing but no looting with any of that. So people who love pvp don't have to love looting.
But as I've said, if you all love it then more power to you and I hope the game does well. Especially with silly people trying to disparage the game by trying to diss its graphics. (other thread here).
I'll just address this here as well:
Originally posted by harmonica
When I said the thing about "hurting an ego" I wasn't being entirely serious. And, I meant it within the context of a videogame. I don't want to punch the guy in the face if I see him, but sure, some people I would enjoy beating in a game more than others. Call it childish, but I think that's what drives a lot of competition - to be better than your opponent. Or to be good enough that you had fun dying/losing to said opponent.
It's also a form of release.
But that's the thing, there are people out there who do not desire to "hurt the ego" of their opponents but want to win for the sake of winning. Becuase it means you are the best at what you do, especially after devoting themselves to the activity and putting in hard work.
So again, I can beat you all day long and never once want your ego hurt in any way. It's the competition that matters. I can also lose all day long and use that to better myself. But if the winner is treating it like a "rub your face in it" sort of thing then that means they are a bad winner. It seems that there are many people who enjoy playing that way. I think this is really the reason why people don't want to play Darkfall.
You don't have to belittle your opponent in order to be better than them.
You don't see Gold Medal Olympian athletes, while getting their medals, turinging to Silver and Bronze and shouting "in your face... in your face" and then taking their Silver and Bronze medals and high tailing it. ; )
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As hopefully this game is not level based or more gear based its mostly skill based
As you practise and use more the more you learn and master a skill. So even if you die a lot you will not lose your skills
Over time once u have mastered your skills it wont be easy to kill you .
The qquestion is ho much time and virtual money has to be put in to get the gear and weapons
I read that all gear and weapons will eventually gets destroyed so it not worthwhile to even repair them or loot them.
Also as people will spread out more only crap will be left to loot near starter areas .If gear is cheap to buy off vendor or thru players then full loot wwont be that bad
But on the other hand if it requires you a whole weeke off grinding to get/buy/craft a gear it will be shame to loot it all in a few seconds.
Even if there is someone grief ganking spawn point a simple chat request in your region helps
Full looting gives a whole new dimension to a game. From having to think about what your willing to lose before heading out on a adventure, to that adrenline rush when you find yourself with something valuable and your only goal is to reach the safety of your bankbox.
Instead of being afraid of it, you should embrace the buzz your get when your being hunted by the friends of the player you just killed and looted, or that rare ingredient that you really dont want to lose so you sneak to your best ability all the way to the nearest bank, only to find you get whooped as you see safety in sight?
If you have the frame of mind that you started with nothing so have nothing to lose except for a bit of pride, then you wont find full looting such a stigma as its made out to be, feel the rush instead of the fear.
Well I can’t speak for anyone but me, but I don’t care for the idea of full loot due to my lack of faith in humanity and gamers in general.
Lets say I am out in whatever swamp to hunt the swamp bees due to some quest, It’s not even a hard fight, but I have 2 hours to waste before bed this quest has been sitting on my books for a while. I don’t even have any nice gear on, just average stuff.
If I happen to get an extra add, get distracted and change a music track or god forbid have to go use the bathroom, and a player finds me wounded or they think I’m afk, they will, more often then not, kill me because they can.
They will loot everything I have no matter how worthless and mediocre it is. Why, Because they can.
Time and time again both here and on other sites Darkfall enthusiasts have commented they will treat Players like MOBs who carry more loot.
I know there is an alignment system in place, but honestly, there will be whole guilds of people who will try to kill anyone and everyone they think they can get. If they are in a fight, or in any way look like an easy kill, they will do it. Why, because they can.
I very much would like to try Darkfall. I would very much like to see something so create and innovative do well.
But I have been playing MMO games for too long to think that some “system” is going to matter one whit of difference when I am wiping bee blood off my sword at 15% life and IKEELUQQMOAR comes over the hill on his way to his quest goal.
In all honesty after I get killed a couple time for no reason other then “because” and I come over a hill and see someone at 15% life, I will seriously consider killing them.
My personal hope is that the hoards of 14 year bunny hopping leet speaking f-tards are shocked at a true PvP setting and quit the game to – QQ MOAR – and go back to WoW.
Full looting gives a whole new dimension to a game. From having to think about what your willing to lose before heading out on a adventure, to that adrenline rush when you find yourself with something valuable and your only goal is to reach the safety of your bankbox. Instead of being afraid of it, you should embrace the buzz your get when your being hunted by the friends of the player you just killed and looted, or that rare ingredient that you really dont want to lose so you sneak to your best ability all the way to the nearest bank, only to find you get whooped as you see safety in sight? If you have the frame of mind that you started with nothing so have nothing to lose except for a bit of pride, then you wont find full looting such a stigma as its made out to be, feel the rush instead of the fear.
But gee, that's what I'm saying. No one is afraid AND not everyone can sign in to that "feel the rush" vibe.
Though you do make a good point in that it's a frame of mind thing. Some of the best times in Lineage 2 were when we were hunting a group of our enemy. It was incredible. But I was in the pvp frame of mind. Other times I just wanted to sit back with a good beer or wine, put on good music and just relax and grind.
But as you know, with a full pvp game you can't compartmentalize your gameplay that way. In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes.
The thing is, the players who have no interest in the loot and ffa pvp thing are most likely looking for a compartmentalized game experience. They want to choose their gameplay for the evening. So if some poor guy is just interested in crafting and he is collecting resources, having 5 guys jump out, obliterate him and then take what he was gathering is going to be an anti-climactic session.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with looting to address another guys post. No one is saying that. I would go so far as to say that I get very frustrated when someone writes "they need to get rid of looting as it's antiquated" or "why not a PvE server?"
Why indeed?
Because the whole purpose is to make a game that hearkens back to a different type of gameplay experience.
But there are so many people who will find that type of gameplay experience to be frustrating at worst and time consuming at best.
But it's not a fear thing as opposed to "what do you find fun" thing. Heck, even in an ffa pvp game I'd rather meed a decent sized group as opposed to Gank some poor guy leveling. Quite frankly I always felt "less than" whenever I saw the enemy and he didn't see me. I'd almost just rather leave the area or go about my business because ganking is the lowest form of pvp for me. Of course, in the end I had to reluctantly gank the guy because if I leave him alone he will most assuredly gank me. And further more, you are at war and you have to keep the pressure on.
But never once did I find that fun. Same with looting or being looted. Don't care, not fun, don't feel the burn but understand that others do.
This is why I hope Dark Fall is succesful. It has to be. There is no modern pvp game out there that I know of that will offer what it says it has.
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I keep seeing people talk about skill and the rush of a good fight.
Hurray…. but your not really going to see that often.
People by nature want the least risk for the greatest reward.
What will not happen: You and another player come nose to nose, you are both at full heath and get into a thrilling PvP fight where the winner takes his reward and goes on his way the better man.
What will happen: You are in a fight and another player sees you first, waits until you and the MOB are almost dead, then they rush in kill you both and take everything and run off.
What will not happen : You and another have a thrilling neck to neck fight, one of you wins and the other gears up and comes back for another try to redeem his name and regain the loot.
What will happen: You and another have a thrilling neck to neck fight, and he comes back with 4-6 friends who kill you and teabag you while calling you names and saying they had intercourse with your mother.
What will not happen: Two guilds who are rivals have a long standing beef with each other. They have many fun wars with each other in a epic tale of PvP clan wars.
What will happen: Bigger guilds will pick on smaller guilds harassing them while they ignore any real challenge.
Granted there WILL be an occasional thrilling fight, and there WILL be cool players and guilds. But it will be the exception and not the norm.
Full looting gives a whole new dimension to a game. From having to think about what your willing to lose before heading out on a adventure, to that adrenline rush when you find yourself with something valuable and your only goal is to reach the safety of your bankbox. Instead of being afraid of it, you should embrace the buzz your get when your being hunted by the friends of the player you just killed and looted, or that rare ingredient that you really dont want to lose so you sneak to your best ability all the way to the nearest bank, only to find you get whooped as you see safety in sight? If you have the frame of mind that you started with nothing so have nothing to lose except for a bit of pride, then you wont find full looting such a stigma as its made out to be, feel the rush instead of the fear.
The problem is though that players will not wear their "Boots of blinding speed" they will wear "common boots" that cost 2 copper at the local smith.......THe boots of blinding speed will be rotting in the bank because no one will want to risk losing them........I know alot of the old UO vets hated the game when they allowed binding items but I think you have to have some sort of system that will allow players to hang on to an item or tow if they get killed.......Also Im sure my Boots of blinding Speed arent going to drop off a deer or rabbit but most likely a tough boss that will take some work and probably a small group to kill.
I'm not really sure if I'm going to like DF's full loot system or not, as I've never played any game quite like it.
I play EVE, but I don't think that's the same, mostly because due to various game mechancis from insurance to the infrequency of losing my ship (vs being ganked/looted in DF) I don't think its a fair comparison.
I'll have to give it a try and see if I enjoy it or hate it. Just waiting for it to release so I can find out for myself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When you introduce bless deeds, insurance, item binding etc to a game the scales tip towards players who have the hours to spend grinding to get the best equipment.
When its full loot, players will wear what they feel they can lose, thus creating an instant balance in pvp, since everyone will be pretty much in the same armour, of course theres nothing you can do when outnumbered, but thats where your learn to look out for the danger signs and leggit when you sniff death coming.
Once the game has been running for a certain period, I imagine the only things players will bother looting are consumables.
I think people are afraid of full loot because they believe a lot of things, when none of these things is necessary true.
- "Everytime I'll be killed I'll be dry looted" -> will probably be an exception not the rule, looting someone won't be clicking one instant and taking all, it will take time, looting item after item, with huge risks for the looter immobile near the corpse ; to carry too much loot will slow characters too and destroying items isn't instant either, so most PK will just take money + one or two items and run, letting the remaining loot on the corpse ; of course vulture kind of players may also loot abandoned corpses, but if they are from same race they will have an alignment hit if they loot and I doubt everyone want to become red, so, except if you are near a faction fronteer it will be unlikely to be dry looted (except if you are killed by a griefer, a big pk clan group or someone having a particular grudge against you, but it won't happen everytime)
- "Everyone will gank for fun" -> probably false, everyone will rather be afraid of loosing more stuff than he gain or to be griefed, ganking random peoples mean having more ennemies, eventually entire clans, and once you have ennemies you will often be dry looted or even spawn camped by them, so most people will only gank when they have good reasons (of course if you carry valuable stuff or campe a gold/ressource you will be ganked ; it's up to you to be clever enough to bank things you don't want to lose), like everything ganking is question of risk/reward, even if immediate risk is low, long term risk will be considered once people realise other players have memories
- "It will be impossible to avoid PKs" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big ; 2/ a lot of people will want to get rid of the PK groups camping between farming spots and bank, so areas near town will be cleaned by antis, 3/ a lot of the UO PK type players will rather engage in clan or faction warfare, dfo is not a game with only PK and antis
- "Even cities won't be secure" -> true and false, there may be suicide ganking like in eve to kill semi-afk rich crafters/traders in cities, but it will only happen if someone is known to carry a lot of valuable ; once a character become red he will be attacked as soon he enters a city, and as there are no rerolls it's unlikely to see players re-start their characters just for the pleasure of doing suicide ganking in cities
- "Numbers will rule, it will be impossible to solo or play in little groups" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big, 2/ without a flag above your head it's hard to see you if you travel alone and out of clear terrains, 3/ the friendly fire system is an hudge disadvantage for the bigger group, good pvpers will make their opponents hit each other more often than they hit them when they are outnumbered
- "Big clans will ignore their faction, once they have farmed alignment they will kill everyone unguilded or from smaller clans near their cities" -> an exception not the rule probably, the interest of the clans cities will be to become safe trade centers so ressources and money are nether lacking, and to have a good image to avoid the gathering of an alliance against them ; ruthless big clans will probably exist but their cities won't last long against alliances of smaller clans of their faction + ennemies of other factions
- "(any affirmation about gear)" -> probably false, most people have only known gear centric games, with lot of stuff farming, big differences between items, etc... Dfo won't be one.
Etc...
I'm not saying Dfo will be a walk in a park, but I think the reality of this game (after 1 month or 2, in the beginning of course it will be chaotic) will be far from the gank and dry loot fest many imagine.
I think people are afraid of full loot because they believe a lot of things, when none of these things is necessary true. - "Everytime I'll be killed I'll be dry looted" -> will probably be an exception not the rule, looting someone won't be clicking one instant and taking all, it will take time, looting item after item, with huge risks for the looter immobile near the corpse ; to carry too much loot will slow characters too and destroying items isn't instant either, so most PK will just take money + one or two items and run, letting the remaining loot on the corpse ; of course vulture kind of players may also loot abandoned corpses, but if they are from same race they will have an alignment hit if they loot and I doubt everyone want to become red, so, except if you are near a faction fronteer it will be unlikely to be dry looted (except if you are killed by a griefer, a big pk clan group or someone having a particular grudge against you, but it won't happen everytime) - "Everyone will gank for fun" -> probably false, everyone will rather be afraid of loosing more stuff than he gain or to be griefed, ganking random peoples mean having more ennemies, eventually entire clans, and once you have ennemies you will often be dry looted or even spawn camped by them, so most people will only gank when they have good reasons (of course if you carry valuable stuff or campe a gold/ressource you will be ganked ; it's up to you to be clever enough to bank things you don't want to lose), like everything ganking is question of risk/reward, even if immediate risk is low, long term risk will be considered once people realise other players have memories - "It will be impossible to avoid PKs" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big ; 2/ a lot of people will want to get rid of the PK groups camping between farming spots and bank, so areas near town will be cleaned by antis, 3/ a lot of the UO PK type players will rather engage in clan or faction warfare, dfo is not a game with only PK and antis - "Even cities won't be secure" -> true and false, there may be suicide ganking like in eve to kill semi-afk rich crafters/traders in cities, but it will only happen if someone is known to carry a lot of valuable ; once a character become red he will be attacked as soon he enters a city, and as there are no rerolls it's unlikely to see players re-start their characters just for the pleasure of doing suicide ganking in cities - "Numbers will rule, it will be impossible to solo or play in little groups" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big, 2/ without a flag above your head it's hard to see you if you travel alone and out of clear terrains, 3/ the friendly fire system is an hudge disadvantage for the bigger group, good pvpers will make their opponents hit each other more often than they hit them when they are outnumbered - "Big clans will ignore their faction, once they have farmed alignment they will kill everyone unguilded or from smaller clans near their cities" -> an exception not the rule probably, the interest of the clans cities will be to become safe trade centers so ressources and money are nether lacking, and to have a good image to avoid the gathering of an alliance against them ; ruthless big clans will probably exist but their cities won't last long against alliances of smaller clans of their faction + ennemies of other factions - "(any affirmation about gear)" -> probably false, most people have only known gear centric games, with lot of stuff farming, big differences between items, etc... Dfo won't be one. Etc... I'm not saying Dfo will be a walk in a park, but I think the reality of this game (after 1 month or 2, in the beginning of course it will be chaotic) will be far from the gank and dry loot fest many imagine.
I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric?
People WILL be ganked until they quit.
People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ).
People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer".
People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you.
Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron.
Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE.
Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game.
Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
People fail to stop to realize that if theres full loot then the demand for player crafted items will be unprecedented except maybe by original UO.
If you dont want full looting go play one of the other crap games that has no looting. The fact full looting is enabled only means fast turn over of gear.....anyone who played (plays) old school UO can tell you the meaning of this.
I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric? People WILL be ganked until they quit. People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ). People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer". People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you. Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron. Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE. Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game. Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
With everything you stated here is all up to how the community is. Now being a Vet to MMO's I would tell you yes this is all true if this game came out 5 years ago, imo. Today the MMO community has changed or what some people say has evolved into a more aggressive community that likes PvP.
My buddies would talk about playing Eve and all they would do is get together with their Clan and just go out to 0.0 space and look for trouble and just kill to loot. Yes they would have large bounties on their heads but i will tell you by the time they got caught and killed for their bounty, they made way more then them loosing their ship and what they had on them. They already had other ships and then go out and find you just to kill you.
I will try Darkfall b/c im big on crafting (Weaponsmith in SWG) but i have an issue with people killing me when i dont even go out of the city limits. I feel other games havent given me alot to do since SWG. I either have to lvl just so I can craft more or the crafting system is so simple that they make bots for it or its just point click, point click and that drives me crazy.
We will see what Darkfall brings. I would like to see someone that has beta tested this game to talk alittle bit on the crafting system.
Comments
Isn't it obvious?
For example: You work extremely hard for "X item", say you grinded several weeks just for this one item. Then one fateful day some a-hole comes and ganks you when you're fighting a mob or w/e and you lost that item. Now even though it may have been one item and you can get it back eventually, you just lost a months work...
So as you can clearly tell, it just sucks when you lose something you worked so hard to get. Some people might say, "well life's like that", well this isn't life, it's a game.
Point is, you DON'T work extremely hard for the items in this game. If it's anything like UO, no item takes a month's work to acquire.
That's not to say the items all suck... they do hold value. Just not insane "it took me a month to get this sword" type value.
If you ask me, even with NO-loot, I am not going to play a game that asks me to grind for a month just to get a good weapon.
Again, that's because you don't see the inherrent value to doing that. But to many the time put in to earn such an item IS fun.
And to be honest, knowing a little something about his life, Gary Coleman would be very anti-full loot.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
yeah, i have to thank whoever posted the difference between "afraid" and "not fun"
no one is "afraid" of an MMO, i am afraid of wasting money, i am afraid of wasting time, and i am afraid of a good idea that doesn't work as well on contact as it looks on paper.
i am not trying to disrespect this game, but if you question darkfall or its unique mechanics, you are a "carebear" ...lol
guys, if you think you are tougher than anyone on the internet based on how much you pk, or how much you value your in game items, you are either a child, or very childish to think that such trivial shit could actually define you as a person.
When I said the thing about "hurting an ego" I wasn't being entirely serious. And, I meant it within the context of a videogame. I don't want to punch the guy in the face if I see him, but sure, some people I would enjoy beating in a game more than others. Call it childish, but I think that's what drives a lot of competition - to be better than your opponent. Or to be good enough that you had fun dying/losing to said opponent.
It's also a form of release.
And so you don't want to loot anybody, then don't? Do you even want to PvP at all?
Monopoly is PvP. It's one human player versus another. You lose your stuff, and sigh, you have to try and get it back or lose altogether. If that turns you off, then so be it. But it's still the same as losing your gear. It doesn't mean you lost the game, it just means you have to get more gear.
It's really just an "icing on the cake" type feature. If I had nothing to lose when PvPing, then that's when I'd go see what was on tv.
I dont know why some of these people are so conecerned about PK's I for one joined a large clan of over 200 people , it is a anti-griefing clan as well for all you too helpless to help yourself we will be there to take care of those nasty griefers and straight up #%$(@ thats our job to police and protect it takes community to protect ourselves from this type of PVP abuse that everyone is whining about even though most wont even play this game they whine to just whine about it.
Cause some people love their pixels way too much?
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
What happened to Gary was more like a scam. In which case he would support full loot so he could wtfpwn his parents and take his shit back.
I disagree. Gary Coleman is taking his agression out on people daily. He loves to fight. Man or woman, he's not only going to kill you - he's going to take all of your shit too.
What happened to Gary was more like a scam. In which case he would support full loot so he could wtfpwn his parents and take his shit back.
lol, ok, good point.
And Harmonica, that is the point I'm making... All games are person vs person (well, unless they are created as solo games) but the person playing the game has to care about the results, they have to want to win but not want to lose. This is what I'm talking about. They have to care about the game rules and results.
I love pvp (combat in games) but have no care of looting. So you say "then don't loot". fine but I also don't care about being looted as I think it's a "waste of time mechanic". So if I don't care about one of the winner perks and I find the losing perk a bit of a waste of time then the game is not for me and others.
Which gets bakc to your original assertion (why we are having this conversation) of people being afraid of looting. No one is "afraid". They just don't buy into this type of game mechanic and therefore have no interest in the game.
I played lineage 2 for 4+ years and there was no looting. I found the pvp fun. I also enjoyed the pvp in Warhammer and Guild Wars. Player vs Player combat.
There was winning and losing but no looting with any of that. So people who love pvp don't have to love looting.
But as I've said, if you all love it then more power to you and I hope the game does well. Especially with silly people trying to disparage the game by trying to diss its graphics. (other thread here).
I'll just address this here as well:
Originally posted by harmonica
When I said the thing about "hurting an ego" I wasn't being entirely serious. And, I meant it within the context of a videogame. I don't want to punch the guy in the face if I see him, but sure, some people I would enjoy beating in a game more than others. Call it childish, but I think that's what drives a lot of competition - to be better than your opponent. Or to be good enough that you had fun dying/losing to said opponent.
It's also a form of release.
But that's the thing, there are people out there who do not desire to "hurt the ego" of their opponents but want to win for the sake of winning. Becuase it means you are the best at what you do, especially after devoting themselves to the activity and putting in hard work.
So again, I can beat you all day long and never once want your ego hurt in any way. It's the competition that matters. I can also lose all day long and use that to better myself. But if the winner is treating it like a "rub your face in it" sort of thing then that means they are a bad winner. It seems that there are many people who enjoy playing that way. I think this is really the reason why people don't want to play Darkfall.
You don't have to belittle your opponent in order to be better than them.
You don't see Gold Medal Olympian athletes, while getting their medals, turinging to Silver and Bronze and shouting "in your face... in your face" and then taking their Silver and Bronze medals and high tailing it. ; )
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There is nothing wrong in full looting .
As hopefully this game is not level based or more gear based its mostly skill based
As you practise and use more the more you learn and master a skill. So even if you die a lot you will not lose your skills
Over time once u have mastered your skills it wont be easy to kill you .
The qquestion is ho much time and virtual money has to be put in to get the gear and weapons
I read that all gear and weapons will eventually gets destroyed so it not worthwhile to even repair them or loot them.
Also as people will spread out more only crap will be left to loot near starter areas .If gear is cheap to buy off vendor or thru players then full loot wwont be that bad
But on the other hand if it requires you a whole weeke off grinding to get/buy/craft a gear it will be shame to loot it all in a few seconds.
Even if there is someone grief ganking spawn point a simple chat request in your region helps
Full looting gives a whole new dimension to a game. From having to think about what your willing to lose before heading out on a adventure, to that adrenline rush when you find yourself with something valuable and your only goal is to reach the safety of your bankbox.
Instead of being afraid of it, you should embrace the buzz your get when your being hunted by the friends of the player you just killed and looted, or that rare ingredient that you really dont want to lose so you sneak to your best ability all the way to the nearest bank, only to find you get whooped as you see safety in sight?
If you have the frame of mind that you started with nothing so have nothing to lose except for a bit of pride, then you wont find full looting such a stigma as its made out to be, feel the rush instead of the fear.
Well I can’t speak for anyone but me, but I don’t care for the idea of full loot due to my lack of faith in humanity and gamers in general.
Lets say I am out in whatever swamp to hunt the swamp bees due to some quest, It’s not even a hard fight, but I have 2 hours to waste before bed this quest has been sitting on my books for a while. I don’t even have any nice gear on, just average stuff.
If I happen to get an extra add, get distracted and change a music track or god forbid have to go use the bathroom, and a player finds me wounded or they think I’m afk, they will, more often then not, kill me because they can.
They will loot everything I have no matter how worthless and mediocre it is. Why, Because they can.
Time and time again both here and on other sites Darkfall enthusiasts have commented they will treat Players like MOBs who carry more loot.
I know there is an alignment system in place, but honestly, there will be whole guilds of people who will try to kill anyone and everyone they think they can get. If they are in a fight, or in any way look like an easy kill, they will do it. Why, because they can.
I very much would like to try Darkfall. I would very much like to see something so create and innovative do well.
But I have been playing MMO games for too long to think that some “system” is going to matter one whit of difference when I am wiping bee blood off my sword at 15% life and IKEELUQQMOAR comes over the hill on his way to his quest goal.
In all honesty after I get killed a couple time for no reason other then “because” and I come over a hill and see someone at 15% life, I will seriously consider killing them.
My personal hope is that the hoards of 14 year bunny hopping leet speaking f-tards are shocked at a true PvP setting and quit the game to – QQ MOAR – and go back to WoW.
But gee, that's what I'm saying. No one is afraid AND not everyone can sign in to that "feel the rush" vibe.
Though you do make a good point in that it's a frame of mind thing. Some of the best times in Lineage 2 were when we were hunting a group of our enemy. It was incredible. But I was in the pvp frame of mind. Other times I just wanted to sit back with a good beer or wine, put on good music and just relax and grind.
But as you know, with a full pvp game you can't compartmentalize your gameplay that way. In for a penny, in for a pound, as the saying goes.
The thing is, the players who have no interest in the loot and ffa pvp thing are most likely looking for a compartmentalized game experience. They want to choose their gameplay for the evening. So if some poor guy is just interested in crafting and he is collecting resources, having 5 guys jump out, obliterate him and then take what he was gathering is going to be an anti-climactic session.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with looting to address another guys post. No one is saying that. I would go so far as to say that I get very frustrated when someone writes "they need to get rid of looting as it's antiquated" or "why not a PvE server?"
Why indeed?
Because the whole purpose is to make a game that hearkens back to a different type of gameplay experience.
But there are so many people who will find that type of gameplay experience to be frustrating at worst and time consuming at best.
But it's not a fear thing as opposed to "what do you find fun" thing. Heck, even in an ffa pvp game I'd rather meed a decent sized group as opposed to Gank some poor guy leveling. Quite frankly I always felt "less than" whenever I saw the enemy and he didn't see me. I'd almost just rather leave the area or go about my business because ganking is the lowest form of pvp for me. Of course, in the end I had to reluctantly gank the guy because if I leave him alone he will most assuredly gank me. And further more, you are at war and you have to keep the pressure on.
But never once did I find that fun. Same with looting or being looted. Don't care, not fun, don't feel the burn but understand that others do.
This is why I hope Dark Fall is succesful. It has to be. There is no modern pvp game out there that I know of that will offer what it says it has.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I keep seeing people talk about skill and the rush of a good fight.
Hurray…. but your not really going to see that often.
People by nature want the least risk for the greatest reward.
What will not happen: You and another player come nose to nose, you are both at full heath and get into a thrilling PvP fight where the winner takes his reward and goes on his way the better man.
What will happen: You are in a fight and another player sees you first, waits until you and the MOB are almost dead, then they rush in kill you both and take everything and run off.
What will not happen : You and another have a thrilling neck to neck fight, one of you wins and the other gears up and comes back for another try to redeem his name and regain the loot.
What will happen: You and another have a thrilling neck to neck fight, and he comes back with 4-6 friends who kill you and teabag you while calling you names and saying they had intercourse with your mother.
What will not happen: Two guilds who are rivals have a long standing beef with each other. They have many fun wars with each other in a epic tale of PvP clan wars.
What will happen: Bigger guilds will pick on smaller guilds harassing them while they ignore any real challenge.
Granted there WILL be an occasional thrilling fight, and there WILL be cool players and guilds. But it will be the exception and not the norm.
The problem is though that players will not wear their "Boots of blinding speed" they will wear "common boots" that cost 2 copper at the local smith.......THe boots of blinding speed will be rotting in the bank because no one will want to risk losing them........I know alot of the old UO vets hated the game when they allowed binding items but I think you have to have some sort of system that will allow players to hang on to an item or tow if they get killed.......Also Im sure my Boots of blinding Speed arent going to drop off a deer or rabbit but most likely a tough boss that will take some work and probably a small group to kill.
I'm not really sure if I'm going to like DF's full loot system or not, as I've never played any game quite like it.
I play EVE, but I don't think that's the same, mostly because due to various game mechancis from insurance to the infrequency of losing my ship (vs being ganked/looted in DF) I don't think its a fair comparison.
I'll have to give it a try and see if I enjoy it or hate it. Just waiting for it to release so I can find out for myself.
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When you introduce bless deeds, insurance, item binding etc to a game the scales tip towards players who have the hours to spend grinding to get the best equipment.
When its full loot, players will wear what they feel they can lose, thus creating an instant balance in pvp, since everyone will be pretty much in the same armour, of course theres nothing you can do when outnumbered, but thats where your learn to look out for the danger signs and leggit when you sniff death coming.
Once the game has been running for a certain period, I imagine the only things players will bother looting are consumables.
I think people are afraid of full loot because they believe a lot of things, when none of these things is necessary true.
- "Everytime I'll be killed I'll be dry looted" -> will probably be an exception not the rule, looting someone won't be clicking one instant and taking all, it will take time, looting item after item, with huge risks for the looter immobile near the corpse ; to carry too much loot will slow characters too and destroying items isn't instant either, so most PK will just take money + one or two items and run, letting the remaining loot on the corpse ; of course vulture kind of players may also loot abandoned corpses, but if they are from same race they will have an alignment hit if they loot and I doubt everyone want to become red, so, except if you are near a faction fronteer it will be unlikely to be dry looted (except if you are killed by a griefer, a big pk clan group or someone having a particular grudge against you, but it won't happen everytime)
- "Everyone will gank for fun" -> probably false, everyone will rather be afraid of loosing more stuff than he gain or to be griefed, ganking random peoples mean having more ennemies, eventually entire clans, and once you have ennemies you will often be dry looted or even spawn camped by them, so most people will only gank when they have good reasons (of course if you carry valuable stuff or campe a gold/ressource you will be ganked ; it's up to you to be clever enough to bank things you don't want to lose), like everything ganking is question of risk/reward, even if immediate risk is low, long term risk will be considered once people realise other players have memories
- "It will be impossible to avoid PKs" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big ; 2/ a lot of people will want to get rid of the PK groups camping between farming spots and bank, so areas near town will be cleaned by antis, 3/ a lot of the UO PK type players will rather engage in clan or faction warfare, dfo is not a game with only PK and antis
- "Even cities won't be secure" -> true and false, there may be suicide ganking like in eve to kill semi-afk rich crafters/traders in cities, but it will only happen if someone is known to carry a lot of valuable ; once a character become red he will be attacked as soon he enters a city, and as there are no rerolls it's unlikely to see players re-start their characters just for the pleasure of doing suicide ganking in cities
- "Numbers will rule, it will be impossible to solo or play in little groups" -> probably false, 1/ the world is big, 2/ without a flag above your head it's hard to see you if you travel alone and out of clear terrains, 3/ the friendly fire system is an hudge disadvantage for the bigger group, good pvpers will make their opponents hit each other more often than they hit them when they are outnumbered
- "Big clans will ignore their faction, once they have farmed alignment they will kill everyone unguilded or from smaller clans near their cities" -> an exception not the rule probably, the interest of the clans cities will be to become safe trade centers so ressources and money are nether lacking, and to have a good image to avoid the gathering of an alliance against them ; ruthless big clans will probably exist but their cities won't last long against alliances of smaller clans of their faction + ennemies of other factions
- "(any affirmation about gear)" -> probably false, most people have only known gear centric games, with lot of stuff farming, big differences between items, etc... Dfo won't be one.
Etc...
I'm not saying Dfo will be a walk in a park, but I think the reality of this game (after 1 month or 2, in the beginning of course it will be chaotic) will be far from the gank and dry loot fest many imagine.
I have to ask this, sorry, but: Have you ever played a MMORPG that is PvP-centric?
People WILL be ganked until they quit.
People WILL camp your corpse ( assuming you can recover your items ).
People WILL go out of their way to ruin your gaming experience in the name of RP-ing a "crazed murderer".
People WILL loot you of all your items simply to piss on you.
Expect to see dedicated gank guilds that either find money or item dupes to fund thier killing sprees, complete with the best items. < this happened in Neocron.
Expect to see murderous players with friendly alts enabling them to bypass any consequences, just like EVE.
Expect to see the sub numbers dwindle much like PotBS, Neocron as gankers run people from the game.
Expect to see latge guilds lord it over guildless and small guilded players.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
because of Trammel.
People fail to stop to realize that if theres full loot then the demand for player crafted items will be unprecedented except maybe by original UO.
If you dont want full looting go play one of the other crap games that has no looting. The fact full looting is enabled only means fast turn over of gear.....anyone who played (plays) old school UO can tell you the meaning of this.
I tend to agree. People think there will be some sort of camaraderie between players, hardly. People will just come online to grief/gank/insult. Right now it is all specculation, but games with features like this tend to attract that kind of gamer.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
With everything you stated here is all up to how the community is. Now being a Vet to MMO's I would tell you yes this is all true if this game came out 5 years ago, imo. Today the MMO community has changed or what some people say has evolved into a more aggressive community that likes PvP.
My buddies would talk about playing Eve and all they would do is get together with their Clan and just go out to 0.0 space and look for trouble and just kill to loot. Yes they would have large bounties on their heads but i will tell you by the time they got caught and killed for their bounty, they made way more then them loosing their ship and what they had on them. They already had other ships and then go out and find you just to kill you.
I will try Darkfall b/c im big on crafting (Weaponsmith in SWG) but i have an issue with people killing me when i dont even go out of the city limits. I feel other games havent given me alot to do since SWG. I either have to lvl just so I can craft more or the crafting system is so simple that they make bots for it or its just point click, point click and that drives me crazy.
We will see what Darkfall brings. I would like to see someone that has beta tested this game to talk alittle bit on the crafting system.
Full loot pvp?
I'd bank all my stuff and travel naked everywhere.
Loot this.