it's a matter of not wanting to deal with the type of people "full-loot" attracts. period.
you can be in denial about this as much as you want while you are thumping your chest about how hardcore you play if you like. but the fact of the matter is, genuine full-loot ALWAYS brings out the worst in every game community.
especially since most of these full-loot junkies(most, not all) don't really want "skill-based competitive PVP". they want free reign to basically make your game experience miserable without any repercussion. these types of people pick MMORPGs because there is less twitch skill involved in playing them than something that is completely dependant on your twitch skills. it's all "game skills" (not player skills) and equipment. also, there is more opportunity in a RPG to catch someone unaware and/or far weaker than they are and gank em while they aren't prepared or in a position to fight back. These are the people who get whupped in the latest First-Person Shooter, and come to slower-paced RPGs to stroke their egos.
if the majority of the people who chest-thump about PVP REALLY wanted full-out, skill-based PVP, then games like Planetside would have been super-mega hits, and MMOFPS and other twitch-based games where equipment doesn't define who is strong and who is weak would be far more prominent than they are now.
it's not a matter of being "afraid" of anything. it's a matter of not wanting to deal with the type of people "full-loot" attracts. period. you can be in denial about this as much as you want while you are thumping your chest about how hardcore you play if you like. but the fact of the matter is, genuine full-loot ALWAYS brings out the worst in every game community. especially since most of these full-loot junkies(most, not all) don't really want "skill-based competitive PVP". they want free reign to basically make your game experience miserable without any repercussion. these types of people pick MMORPGs because there is less twitch skill involved in playing them than something that is completely dependant on your twitch skills. it's all "game skills" (not player skills) and equipment. also, there is more opportunity in a RPG to catch someone unaware and/or far weaker than they are and gank em while they aren't prepared or in a position to fight back. These are the people who get whupped in the latest First-Person Shooter, and come to slower-paced RPGs to stroke their egos. if the majority of the people who chest-thump about PVP REALLY wanted full-out, skill-based PVP, then games like Planetside would have been super-mega hits, and MMOFPS and other twitch-based games where equipment doesn't define who is strong and who is weak would be far more prominent than they are now.
Such as Fury.
And I'll go ahead and say you're partially right. People who want more skill-based, hardcore pvp games really just haven't considered their position. Games like COD4 provide what they want really, mmo's should and will have much grander scales in mind.
If DF just turns into a gankfest it's -going- to flop. This isn't my just my opinion, it's a proven track record of every single mmo. I don't expect DF to be a mega hit with 1 million 'scrips in a month, but ~200k shouldn't be out of the question. If DF is going to turn into a gankfest we're going to see it start happening probably after the first, maybe second week. I don't know about you guys, but I want to have -more- people coming in to DF every month than none or have people quit. If you're thinking, 'I don't want fucking noobs and carebears on -my- server'...well you're just insane. Those are the kinds of players that make tearing through their towns or castles worthwhile.
Plus I don't want to see DF turn into another one of these mmo's that you just know is going to die, but does it painfully slow. If there is full looting then it's up to the devs to make sure there is a proper PVP system in place that has reprecussions for pk'ers and I don't just mean getting flagged for a certain period of time. Cause I garauntee if they think the community is going to balance out gank squads then they're in for a shock.
I think im going to have to agree with most all of WSIMIkes points. It would seem one of the -rules of real PvP- is never attack anyone you are not certain beyond a show of a doubt you cant kill in one or two shots. I have played a fair number of games with PvP options, and I would honestly say less then 5% of all my PvP deaths have been other then a steamroll kill. Typically it will be myself taken by suprise by 1-3 players who are generally 2 to 3 times above my level. Usually from the time they spotted me and the time I was dead, it was less then 5 seconds. About a 30% of the time the same people will kill me again in the same area, sometimes on my corpse run. About 70% of all the times I have been killed I have been called names, told to learn to play or they have made sexual comments. About 80% of the time I did manage to kill someone they returned with freinds and killed me With that said there are some very cool PvP'ers out there, they just are the tiny minority.
Heheh... This reminds me of another sub-class of the typical griefer/ganker... The "double standard griefer".
They spend all their time going after people half as powerful as they are - if even that - and then gloat about how they "pwned" them, etc. Yet, when someone more powerful than themselves manages to catch them off-guard and drops them, they start crap-talking about "LOL ur a carebear. You must suck at PvP cuz you need a higher level character to kill me. LOL n00b".
Always get a kick out of them as well.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well if you really want to maximize the thrill with full loot, why not perma-death too? Talk about an edge of your seat thrill ride. There's no care bears here right?
With everything you stated here is all up to how the community is. Now being a Vet to MMO's I would tell you yes this is all true if this game came out 5 years ago, imo. Today the MMO community has changed or what some people say has evolved into a more aggressive community that likes PvP. My buddies would talk about playing Eve and all they would do is get together with their Clan and just go out to 0.0 space and look for trouble and just kill to loot. Yes they would have large bounties on their heads but i will tell you by the time they got caught and killed for their bounty, they made way more then them loosing their ship and what they had on them. They already had other ships and then go out and find you just to kill you. I will try Darkfall b/c im big on crafting (Weaponsmith in SWG) but i have an issue with people killing me when i dont even go out of the city limits. I feel other games havent given me alot to do since SWG. I either have to lvl just so I can craft more or the crafting system is so simple that they make bots for it or its just point click, point click and that drives me crazy. We will see what Darkfall brings. I would like to see someone that has beta tested this game to talk alittle bit on the crafting system.
So far , to get your first crafting skill costs 200 gold, and to get your bindstone (runestone) costs 2000 gold
but other than that haven't heard of anyone that has started crafting yet.
Well if you really want to maximize the thrill with full loot, why not perma-death too? Talk about an edge of your seat thrill ride. There's no care bears here right?
Don't tell us tell that to the devs its their game.
PVPers in MMORPGs are just as "carebear" as the "carebears" they try to make fun of and post links to hello kitty online for.
if they weren't, they'd be playing skill/twitch-based games like Shooters, instead of Gear/Diceroll based games.
that's my opinion on the matter.
so when I see some dumbass talking on a message board like they are the toughest shit on the block, when in actuality their a little bitch that got stomped in counterstrike so they ran away and switched to a genre that they can suck at but still make someone else's gameplay miserable, I just kinda sit back and laugh.
Full-Loot FFA PvP is not really about PvP, Competition, or "Community", no matter what smoke anyone blows up your ass. It's about which stealth character can get the drop on which wounded noob, tbag em and take their shit, and about which giant blob of random asshats can level up faster than the rest and then grief everyone lower than them. It's a coward's playstyle, really, that only a tiny minority of potential MMORPG customers are and have ever been interested in. even "Pre-WoW".
Faction-Based PvP will always be the more popular PvP playstyle.
Darkfall will succeed, in that it will take all the griefing asshats out of our games, and hold them all in one place where they can grief each other to their heart's content while the rest of us enjoy whatever it is about MMORPGs that we enjoy. for me, it's the Faction-Based PvP.
I think im going to have to agree with most all of WSIMIkes points. It would seem one of the -rules of real PvP- is never attack anyone you are not certain beyond a show of a doubt you cant kill in one or two shots. I have played a fair number of games with PvP options, and I would honestly say less then 5% of all my PvP deaths have been other then a steamroll kill. Typically it will be myself taken by suprise by 1-3 players who are generally 2 to 3 times above my level. Usually from the time they spotted me and the time I was dead, it was less then 5 seconds. About a 30% of the time the same people will kill me again in the same area, sometimes on my corpse run. About 70% of all the times I have been killed I have been called names, told to learn to play or they have made sexual comments. About 80% of the time I did manage to kill someone they returned with freinds and killed me With that said there are some very cool PvP'ers out there, they just are the tiny minority.
Heheh... This reminds me of another sub-class of the typical griefer/ganker... The "double standard griefer".
They spend all their time going after people half as powerful as they are - if even that - and then gloat about how they "pwned" them, etc. Yet, when someone more powerful than themselves manages to catch them off-guard and drops them, they start crap-talking about "LOL ur a carebear. You must suck at PvP cuz you need a higher level character to kill me. LOL n00b".
Always get a kick out of them as well.
Good points but the kicker is on sight alone you will not be able to determine what ablities a person might have since there are no levels so true ganking does not exist in this sense. If someone is down after a fight its up to each person to finish them off or let them have a pass the way I should be.
Corps camping will not happen as you will just respawn at the rez point and go on your merry way no reason to go back for as you have already been looted. Nothing is going to stop zergs except for other zergs and once those get organizied then you should start seeing some nice wars and people just might move past being mindless rabble.
At some point people will realize in order to get some of the cooler things going in the game like ships and town ownership they are going to have to take sometime out and chop a tree and mine some ore at a minimum as they aren't going to build themselves.
Its not the full-loot system, Its the engine and how it handles combat. If the combat is gimped then full-loot is gonna suk.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I don't get it. People want to strive away from gear dependency in MMOs. But you still want a full loot system. Why? If loot isn't the primary focus, why have full loot? "wow, I got his generic shoulderpads that anyone can buy for 15s at the vendor"...
I attach this clip .Please spend a minute watching it The morale .Even CHAOS eventually tunes people to function in a displined manner .
Socities from the democratic to barbarians eventually function in some sort of structure.
If Darkfall delivers as a game on wht it intends to ,begining chaos will give into a much structured PVP rules structure
One problem... You cannot compare real life to a game. The rules are different. A big difference is if you die in real life, you are DEAD. You don't get to come back and try again. Darkfall is a game. People don't play games by real life rules.
Not really gonna be QQing about your gear when you get ganked in real life. I'm Guessing your not gonna be needing it anymore.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Look, its been a long time since UO. The Full-Loot model simply would not work in most/all current MMOs. Full-Loot in WoW would truly be a WoW Killer. Most MMOs currently are about character advancement through gearing up. Full-Loot breaks that horribly. So when you say "Full Loot" people put it in the context of their current MMO and go "bugger off!"
Now, if Darkfall can do Full-Loot well, it could be great. But it will come down to the finer balance of the cost of acquiring gear vs its benefits, how much player skill can make up for poorer gear, and other factors.
This could get boring though..... For example, after a while everyone runs around with "Crafter's Sword Level 3" simply because its cost to effectiveness ratio is the best. No one makes Level 4 because they know it costs 5 extra admagicum bars to craft, and since it takes 1 hour to farm a bar, its not worth wasting 5 hours of your time for a Level 4 sword that only does an extra 1 dps......
Without the gearing-up end-game, there needs to be enough other aspects to keep players interested.
It remains to be seen if it works, like literally everything else about Darkfall.
I hope there are alot of them around. I would love to see Darkfall become the best game. It combines 2 of my favorite Vintage MMOs, UO and Ashen Empires, into a 3D version. If all the WoW players stay out of it, then I will probably come to play it a couple months after release. There's a reason why 90% of the WoW PvP servers are listed as "Low"....Griefers.
That's because WoW World PVP is a joke. Thus, WoW is mostly a PVE game. A good PVP game will have solid World PVP and objectives. Additionally, it will allow you to skill up via PVP
I don't get it. People want to strive away from gear dependency in MMOs. But you still want a full loot system. Why? If loot isn't the primary focus, why have full loot? "wow, I got his generic shoulderpads that anyone can buy for 15s at the vendor"...
Because if there will be gear in the game or items that we need to farm; then only Looting/ITem Destruction can bring balance to the game
This is the balance we see in EVE Online. I dont always bring out my best ship for every fight. This gives a younger guy or casual player more of a chance to kill me.
In grindfests like World of Warcraft / WAR you have no choice but to farm gear to compete. Additionally and most disturbing, players will always wear their best items. That takes no balls
When full loot is in play, it takes courage to wear your best gear and it gives one a real rush
If you do not understand this then that's a real shame
I see a lot of discussion on full loot and the hardcore nature of it, the focus on the risk vs the reward, and the thrill of it all. Why not have permanent death then? Get in a fight and risk the chance of losing your character and starting from scratch?
I see a lot of discussion on full loot and the hardcore nature of it, the focus on the risk vs the reward, and the thrill of it all. Why not have permanent death then? Get in a fight and risk the chance of losing your character and starting from scratch? What could be more hardcore than that?
its like asking a masochist:
"when you like pain, why dont you cut your legs of?"
I see a lot of discussion on full loot and the hardcore nature of it, the focus on the risk vs the reward, and the thrill of it all. Why not have permanent death then? Get in a fight and risk the chance of losing your character and starting from scratch? What could be more hardcore than that?
What permadeath games have you played? I've played on PD servers. Unfortunately there is nothing hardcore about PD servers. These are often havens for socializers. People usually just sit around town and chat all day long.
Additionally, if people lose their avatar to lag deaths your GM will get many tears
Equipment loss is a sting too- but at least that can be replaced fairly fast in most cases. I know in EVE I have multiple replacement ships. But my avatar has no backup
If I had a penny for everytime I've seen this argument I could be a rich man. IT was never a good argument and 95% of the time the poster has never even played on a PD server
And you make the assumption full looting is "hardcore". IT really isn't all that hardcore. Full RP is hardcore if you ask me
I see a lot of discussion on full loot and the hardcore nature of it, the focus on the risk vs the reward, and the thrill of it all. Why not have permanent death then? Get in a fight and risk the chance of losing your character and starting from scratch? What could be more hardcore than that?
What permadeath games have you played? I've played on PD servers. Unfortunately there is nothing hardcore about PD servers. These are often havens for socializers. People usually just sit around town and chat all day long.
Additionally, if people lose their avatar to lag deaths your GM will get many tears
Equipment loss is a sting too- but at least that can be replaced fairly fast in most cases. I know in EVE I have multiple replacement ships. But my avatar has no backup
If I had a penny for everytime I've seen this argument I could be a rich man. IT was never a good argument and 95% of the time the poster has never even played on a PD server
And you make the assumption full looting is "hardcore". IT really isn't all that hardcore. Full RP is hardcore if you ask me
Actually I don't make the assumption that full loot is hardcore. Other people have made that argument and this was directed at them.
Planetside was full-loot 100% PvP all day every day, and the benefit of looting a corpse was getting a weapon/ammo that is not available to your faction.
so why was that game not as popular as it should have been, given the loot system and PvP nature of the game?
People by nature want the least risk for the greatest reward. What will not happen: You and another player come nose to nose, you are both at full heath and get into a thrilling PvP fight where the winner takes his reward and goes on his way the better man.
I think im going to have to agree with most all of WSIMIkes points. It would seem one of the -rules of real PvP- is never attack anyone you are not certain beyond a show of a doubt you cant kill in one or two shots. I have played a fair number of games with PvP options, and I would honestly say less then 5% of all my PvP deaths have been other then a steamroll kill. Typically it will be myself taken by suprise by 1-3 players who are generally 2 to 3 times above my level. Usually from the time they spotted me and the time I was dead, it was less then 5 seconds. About a 30% of the time the same people will kill me again in the same area, sometimes on my corpse run. About 70% of all the times I have been killed I have been called names, told to learn to play or they have made sexual comments. About 80% of the time I did manage to kill someone they returned with freinds and killed me
With that said there are some very cool PvP'ers out there, they just are the tiny minority.
Yes, I see this time after time, in game after game. Honourable PvP is a wonderful concept, but will almost never occur.
Comments
it's not a matter of being "afraid" of anything.
it's a matter of not wanting to deal with the type of people "full-loot" attracts. period.
you can be in denial about this as much as you want while you are thumping your chest about how hardcore you play if you like. but the fact of the matter is, genuine full-loot ALWAYS brings out the worst in every game community.
especially since most of these full-loot junkies(most, not all) don't really want "skill-based competitive PVP". they want free reign to basically make your game experience miserable without any repercussion. these types of people pick MMORPGs because there is less twitch skill involved in playing them than something that is completely dependant on your twitch skills. it's all "game skills" (not player skills) and equipment. also, there is more opportunity in a RPG to catch someone unaware and/or far weaker than they are and gank em while they aren't prepared or in a position to fight back. These are the people who get whupped in the latest First-Person Shooter, and come to slower-paced RPGs to stroke their egos.
if the majority of the people who chest-thump about PVP REALLY wanted full-out, skill-based PVP, then games like Planetside would have been super-mega hits, and MMOFPS and other twitch-based games where equipment doesn't define who is strong and who is weak would be far more prominent than they are now.
Such as Fury.
And I'll go ahead and say you're partially right. People who want more skill-based, hardcore pvp games really just haven't considered their position. Games like COD4 provide what they want really, mmo's should and will have much grander scales in mind.
If DF just turns into a gankfest it's -going- to flop. This isn't my just my opinion, it's a proven track record of every single mmo. I don't expect DF to be a mega hit with 1 million 'scrips in a month, but ~200k shouldn't be out of the question. If DF is going to turn into a gankfest we're going to see it start happening probably after the first, maybe second week. I don't know about you guys, but I want to have -more- people coming in to DF every month than none or have people quit. If you're thinking, 'I don't want fucking noobs and carebears on -my- server'...well you're just insane. Those are the kinds of players that make tearing through their towns or castles worthwhile.
Plus I don't want to see DF turn into another one of these mmo's that you just know is going to die, but does it painfully slow. If there is full looting then it's up to the devs to make sure there is a proper PVP system in place that has reprecussions for pk'ers and I don't just mean getting flagged for a certain period of time. Cause I garauntee if they think the community is going to balance out gank squads then they're in for a shock.
Heheh... This reminds me of another sub-class of the typical griefer/ganker... The "double standard griefer".
They spend all their time going after people half as powerful as they are - if even that - and then gloat about how they "pwned" them, etc. Yet, when someone more powerful than themselves manages to catch them off-guard and drops them, they start crap-talking about "LOL ur a carebear. You must suck at PvP cuz you need a higher level character to kill me. LOL n00b".
Always get a kick out of them as well.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well if you really want to maximize the thrill with full loot, why not perma-death too? Talk about an edge of your seat thrill ride. There's no care bears here right?
So far , to get your first crafting skill costs 200 gold, and to get your bindstone (runestone) costs 2000 gold
but other than that haven't heard of anyone that has started crafting yet.
Don't tell us tell that to the devs its their game.
PVPers in MMORPGs are just as "carebear" as the "carebears" they try to make fun of and post links to hello kitty online for.
if they weren't, they'd be playing skill/twitch-based games like Shooters, instead of Gear/Diceroll based games.
that's my opinion on the matter.
so when I see some dumbass talking on a message board like they are the toughest shit on the block, when in actuality their a little bitch that got stomped in counterstrike so they ran away and switched to a genre that they can suck at but still make someone else's gameplay miserable, I just kinda sit back and laugh.
Full-Loot FFA PvP is not really about PvP, Competition, or "Community", no matter what smoke anyone blows up your ass. It's about which stealth character can get the drop on which wounded noob, tbag em and take their shit, and about which giant blob of random asshats can level up faster than the rest and then grief everyone lower than them. It's a coward's playstyle, really, that only a tiny minority of potential MMORPG customers are and have ever been interested in. even "Pre-WoW".
Faction-Based PvP will always be the more popular PvP playstyle.
Darkfall will succeed, in that it will take all the griefing asshats out of our games, and hold them all in one place where they can grief each other to their heart's content while the rest of us enjoy whatever it is about MMORPGs that we enjoy. for me, it's the Faction-Based PvP.
Heheh... This reminds me of another sub-class of the typical griefer/ganker... The "double standard griefer".
They spend all their time going after people half as powerful as they are - if even that - and then gloat about how they "pwned" them, etc. Yet, when someone more powerful than themselves manages to catch them off-guard and drops them, they start crap-talking about "LOL ur a carebear. You must suck at PvP cuz you need a higher level character to kill me. LOL n00b".
Always get a kick out of them as well.
Good points but the kicker is on sight alone you will not be able to determine what ablities a person might have since there are no levels so true ganking does not exist in this sense. If someone is down after a fight its up to each person to finish them off or let them have a pass the way I should be.
Corps camping will not happen as you will just respawn at the rez point and go on your merry way no reason to go back for as you have already been looted. Nothing is going to stop zergs except for other zergs and once those get organizied then you should start seeing some nice wars and people just might move past being mindless rabble.
At some point people will realize in order to get some of the cooler things going in the game like ships and town ownership they are going to have to take sometime out and chop a tree and mine some ore at a minimum as they aren't going to build themselves.
I attach this clip .Please spend a minute watching it
The morale .Even CHAOS eventually tunes people to function in a displined manner .
Socities from the democratic to barbarians eventually function in some sort of structure.
If Darkfall delivers as a game on wht it intends to ,begining chaos will give into a much structured PVP rules structure
Its not the full-loot system, Its the engine and how it handles combat. If the combat is gimped then full-loot is gonna suk.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I don't get it. People want to strive away from gear dependency in MMOs. But you still want a full loot system. Why? If loot isn't the primary focus, why have full loot? "wow, I got his generic shoulderpads that anyone can buy for 15s at the vendor"...
One problem... You cannot compare real life to a game. The rules are different. A big difference is if you die in real life, you are DEAD. You don't get to come back and try again. Darkfall is a game. People don't play games by real life rules.
Not really gonna be QQing about your gear when you get ganked in real life. I'm Guessing your not gonna be needing it anymore.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Well thats a divisive title.
Look, its been a long time since UO. The Full-Loot model simply would not work in most/all current MMOs. Full-Loot in WoW would truly be a WoW Killer. Most MMOs currently are about character advancement through gearing up. Full-Loot breaks that horribly. So when you say "Full Loot" people put it in the context of their current MMO and go "bugger off!"
Now, if Darkfall can do Full-Loot well, it could be great. But it will come down to the finer balance of the cost of acquiring gear vs its benefits, how much player skill can make up for poorer gear, and other factors.
This could get boring though..... For example, after a while everyone runs around with "Crafter's Sword Level 3" simply because its cost to effectiveness ratio is the best. No one makes Level 4 because they know it costs 5 extra admagicum bars to craft, and since it takes 1 hour to farm a bar, its not worth wasting 5 hours of your time for a Level 4 sword that only does an extra 1 dps......
Without the gearing-up end-game, there needs to be enough other aspects to keep players interested.
It remains to be seen if it works, like literally everything else about Darkfall.
That's because WoW World PVP is a joke. Thus, WoW is mostly a PVE game. A good PVP game will have solid World PVP and objectives. Additionally, it will allow you to skill up via PVP
Because if there will be gear in the game or items that we need to farm; then only Looting/ITem Destruction can bring balance to the game
This is the balance we see in EVE Online. I dont always bring out my best ship for every fight. This gives a younger guy or casual player more of a chance to kill me.
In grindfests like World of Warcraft / WAR you have no choice but to farm gear to compete. Additionally and most disturbing, players will always wear their best items. That takes no balls
When full loot is in play, it takes courage to wear your best gear and it gives one a real rush
If you do not understand this then that's a real shame
I see a lot of discussion on full loot and the hardcore nature of it, the focus on the risk vs the reward, and the thrill of it all. Why not have permanent death then? Get in a fight and risk the chance of losing your character and starting from scratch?
What could be more hardcore than that?
The answer is simple...
1. Multiple people, multi-boxing 9-10 naked casters.
2. Multi-boxed casters focus firing targets.
3. Profit.
That's what I plan on doing anyway, the only thing I will lose is your loot on the way to the bank if someone happens to kill whichever toon has it.
The only hard part about this game I see so far, is if <Multi-box Gank Squad> will be too long of a guild name.
its like asking a masochist:
"when you like pain, why dont you cut your legs of?"
What permadeath games have you played? I've played on PD servers. Unfortunately there is nothing hardcore about PD servers. These are often havens for socializers. People usually just sit around town and chat all day long.
Additionally, if people lose their avatar to lag deaths your GM will get many tears
Equipment loss is a sting too- but at least that can be replaced fairly fast in most cases. I know in EVE I have multiple replacement ships. But my avatar has no backup
If I had a penny for everytime I've seen this argument I could be a rich man. IT was never a good argument and 95% of the time the poster has never even played on a PD server
And you make the assumption full looting is "hardcore". IT really isn't all that hardcore. Full RP is hardcore if you ask me
What permadeath games have you played? I've played on PD servers. Unfortunately there is nothing hardcore about PD servers. These are often havens for socializers. People usually just sit around town and chat all day long.
Additionally, if people lose their avatar to lag deaths your GM will get many tears
Equipment loss is a sting too- but at least that can be replaced fairly fast in most cases. I know in EVE I have multiple replacement ships. But my avatar has no backup
If I had a penny for everytime I've seen this argument I could be a rich man. IT was never a good argument and 95% of the time the poster has never even played on a PD server
And you make the assumption full looting is "hardcore". IT really isn't all that hardcore. Full RP is hardcore if you ask me
Actually I don't make the assumption that full loot is hardcore. Other people have made that argument and this was directed at them.
Here's a penny.
Planetside was full-loot 100% PvP all day every day, and the benefit of looting a corpse was getting a weapon/ammo that is not available to your faction.
so why was that game not as popular as it should have been, given the loot system and PvP nature of the game?
just sayin'.
100% True story.
Yes, I see this time after time, in game after game. Honourable PvP is a wonderful concept, but will almost never occur.
trust me, in any kind of game, if you're already rich, it doesnt take long to make money to buy the things you lost.
This was a saying I read about in the newspaper a LONG WHILE back...
If Bill Gates was to drop $1000.00
The amount of time it takes for him to pick it up, he would of already made more than that $1000.00.