I'm sorry but just because somethingis cartoony does not mean it is ment for children. KOTOR's man addiance are the 30 something with disposopale income who grew up on this and can afford to pay.
I think that would be the smart thing to say to justify your own interest in this game if your forum name is Sith78, hehe.
Anyway, I don' t think we can rule out the 12-18 group because of the latest bunch of Starwars movies and I think Bioware isn't doing that either. Wouldn't be 'commercially wise' to do so. In that regard I think it is pretty obvious that SWTOR is being built and will be marketed to please the same, large age group as WOW; pretty much 12ish - 40+ Marketing people of big, established companies are like pokemon collectors; "Gotta catch' em all"
Anyway, I don' t think we can rule out the 12-18 group because of the latest bunch of Starwars movies and I think Bioware isn't doing that either. Wouldn't be 'commercially wise' to do so. In that regard I think it is pretty obvious that SWTOR is being built and will be marketed to please the same, large age group as WOW; pretty much 12ish - 40+ Marketing people of big, established companies are like pokemon collectors; "Gotta catch' em all"
I am inclined to agree with you, keeping in mind that the sole purpose of a gaming company is to make money. Granted, there are variables that everyone would like to see at one time or another, but unfortunately they do not (variables..whatever they may be) often go hand in hand with the objectives of the game company.
I am also sure that the teen crowd thinks of the older gaming crowd (30+) as a bunch of old stick in the muds. It takes all types to make a good game successful; Bioware at the helm of this one, expect good things.
Your comments come off as elitist and could be construed as classist, jingoistic and racist depending on the context.
Furthermore, I often think that Star Wars is a poor MMO world choice. You have people like yourself, who are familiar with all of the Star Wars lore, novels, movies, etc jumping in and telling people what they should play and how they should play it.
But, taking your argument at face value I will leave you with this. SWG did it right to begin with. You had to unlock the Jedi class, and if you died... well that was it. A little whining from those who *did* unlock Jedi mixed with Lucasarts led to changes in the game that ruined Jedi.
And lets not forget what happened with the NGE. Lucas arts made Jedi playable to everyone!! Yippie! And yes, I'm not so daft as to throw all of the blame SOEs way. Its pretty clear to me that with an alignment of the release of a certain set of movies on dvd and the coming up for renewal of SOEs Star Wars licsense that the issue is more complicated than most think. Lucasarts did some market testing and decided that there were tons of people like you, OP, who REALLY wanted to play Jedi. Ergo make Jedi a playable class from the begining!
Quite simply, however, Jedi only work well as a playable class for a single player game. The reason is the sheer power of the Jedi. No matter what lore you consult Jedi are meant to be some of the most powerful people in the Star Wars universe. To balance them with other classes to put them in as starting characters in an MMO is already breaking Star Wars lore. It is already breaking what the Jedi are supposed to be.
So I'm not sure your justified in your concern about "stupid people" breaking a Star Wars mmo Jedi's connection to Star Wars lore.
I would love to see an MMO with actual restricted classes or *gods forbid* one where you actually had to adhere to a code of conduct or otherwise give something up/accept some limitations in order to play "cool class XX". It's not all about elitism...it's about consequence, story and believability...but no studio will ever do it, because the great unwashed masses are all about me me me me me me me right now everything with no sacrifice. It was the "everyone should get to be a jedi without sacrifice, cost or risk" crowd that helped utterly destroy SWG. Classes/characters given special powers of that nature *should* have to sacrifice. Jedi, Paladins, Priests etc *should* have codes of conduct that they *must* abide by or lose their powers/status. Otherwise they aren't "Jedi" - it's "gangs of NY with lightsabres!" PS For the whackos who felt compelled to drag tyrants and fascists into this; you might want to remember how many people have been slaughtered, starved to death or sent to re-education camps by the fine agents of the proletariate masses who think everyone deserves complete and total equality of outcome regardless of contribution Or perhaps just lighten up, it is as you said, a game.
And how is this sentiment not just "me me me me me me me me...?"
I want to play a game where they make people play Jedi like I want!1!!!
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing.
We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer.
I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it.
If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd,
As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game.
Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing. of course, because you simply do not have the information, the ideas or the skills to debate game issues and features; so ban them all! We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer. I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it. i am sure you will be much more comfortable as well around the l33t crowd. If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd, yes, such as the NGE As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game. Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder. its RAPH, and his last name is Koster in case you did not know.
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing. We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer. I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it. If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd, As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game. Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder.
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
While I do enjoy the movies, the Star Wars saga is rooted in a lone smuggler who has turned from the fence line to the side of…well his own which seems in touch with the good side, sometimes. Now all this rubbish about Jedi is a concept that evades me. A good guy who stays a good guy in an organization that makes the rules to their agenda. Sounds like a few presidents I read about. One should have to take an intelligence test just to find out if they are dumb enough to be a Jedi and be led around by the powers to be. The good side is just as evil as the dark side, its in the blood (Luke, I am your father). Never catch a smugglers daddy sayin that.
I say let all the kiddies be jedi, they will get bored within a month and go back to WOW. For me, Ill make my own way and not be controlled by the self proclaimed “good side” or the “wanna-be dark side.” Yarrr, its only right.
SEABEAST
Wow...So everyone interested in playing a Jedi class is a "kiddie"...how ignorant is that?
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing. of course, because you simply do not have the information, the ideas or the skills to debate game issues and features; so ban them all! We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer. I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it. i am sure you will be much more comfortable as well around the l33t crowd. If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd, yes, such as the NGE As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game. Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder. its RAPH, and his last name is Koster in case you did not know.
my replies are in red.
No doubt this is Hubert now. Dude...dont mention the same item about 'Raph" between your main and alt accounts. Sheesh you make it easy for us to spot ya. What ya learning in college?
Like I said before kid...unless you played something more head banging than old school EQ dont try to straw man me as being about easy games. EQ was much more involved than SWG...and it was much more popula as well.
Just cause you wanna deny reality doesnt make it any less fact.
Now get a bloody job, and come talk to us adults when you are actually one of us. The technicality of your age doesnt work when you are still attending school at 29. That makes ya a kid that is doing nothing with their life.
Cheerio
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Its dead Jim. Mmo's like beffor WoW are gone. Its mainstream now.
All the loser's of the world are playing Mmo's Move on.
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
Yep. Enjoyed the days of Ultima Online and Asheron's Call. Heck, even EQ had an in-depth crafting system, looking at the creation of arrows as an example. Be nice to see other games strive for that level of detail in their non-combat systems.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing. We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer. I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it. If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd, As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game. Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder.
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
Holy sh*t Demalus, I think that one statement hits the bloody nail on the head as effectively as I've ever heard it said.
I may have to quote you on that from time to time.
To the Original Poster and the people that agree with him...you sound elitist. To be honest, I think you'll find that Sith fits your personality better.
Then you won't have to worry about the kiddies, because they always want to play the good guys. But if you're bent on playing a Jedi...then to each his own, I suppose.
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing. We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer. I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it. If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd, As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game. Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder.
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
I missed this post.
Where did I say it isnt supposed to be special? It isnt meant to be a sim of RL jobs is what it isnt supposed to be. No one is talking about easy.
I like how everyone gravitates to throwing the WOW card, or naturally assumes what a person is about.
I started EQ in 01, and it is still my fav game. Nothing about EQ screams easy. Thus I have no clue WTF you are talking about.
I dont think you do either, especially when it comes to me.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
I dont care who plays. I love idiots who play video games, makes pissing them off, owning them, and griefing them all the more gratifying. When your conscience starts to tell you youre an online jerk, remembering their idiocy reminds you they deserve it. At least telling myself that allows me to sleep comfortably at night.
Star Wars fans will be playing and we won't be concerned wether the game is a sandbox or not because it is Star Wars. Thank You, The Silent Majority
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
Star Wars fans will be playing and we won't be concerned wether the game is a sandbox or not because it is Star Wars. Thank You, The Silent Majority
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
If that's true, wouldn't SWG have had a lot more subs?
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Comments
I think that would be the smart thing to say to justify your own interest in this game if your forum name is Sith78, hehe.
Anyway, I don' t think we can rule out the 12-18 group because of the latest bunch of Starwars movies and I think Bioware isn't doing that either. Wouldn't be 'commercially wise' to do so. In that regard I think it is pretty obvious that SWTOR is being built and will be marketed to please the same, large age group as WOW; pretty much 12ish - 40+ Marketing people of big, established companies are like pokemon collectors; "Gotta catch' em all"
My brand new bloggity blog.
I am inclined to agree with you, keeping in mind that the sole purpose of a gaming company is to make money. Granted, there are variables that everyone would like to see at one time or another, but unfortunately they do not (variables..whatever they may be) often go hand in hand with the objectives of the game company.
I am also sure that the teen crowd thinks of the older gaming crowd (30+) as a bunch of old stick in the muds. It takes all types to make a good game successful; Bioware at the helm of this one, expect good things.
to the OP:
Your comments come off as elitist and could be construed as classist, jingoistic and racist depending on the context.
Furthermore, I often think that Star Wars is a poor MMO world choice. You have people like yourself, who are familiar with all of the Star Wars lore, novels, movies, etc jumping in and telling people what they should play and how they should play it.
But, taking your argument at face value I will leave you with this. SWG did it right to begin with. You had to unlock the Jedi class, and if you died... well that was it. A little whining from those who *did* unlock Jedi mixed with Lucasarts led to changes in the game that ruined Jedi.
And lets not forget what happened with the NGE. Lucas arts made Jedi playable to everyone!! Yippie! And yes, I'm not so daft as to throw all of the blame SOEs way. Its pretty clear to me that with an alignment of the release of a certain set of movies on dvd and the coming up for renewal of SOEs Star Wars licsense that the issue is more complicated than most think. Lucasarts did some market testing and decided that there were tons of people like you, OP, who REALLY wanted to play Jedi. Ergo make Jedi a playable class from the begining!
Quite simply, however, Jedi only work well as a playable class for a single player game. The reason is the sheer power of the Jedi. No matter what lore you consult Jedi are meant to be some of the most powerful people in the Star Wars universe. To balance them with other classes to put them in as starting characters in an MMO is already breaking Star Wars lore. It is already breaking what the Jedi are supposed to be.
So I'm not sure your justified in your concern about "stupid people" breaking a Star Wars mmo Jedi's connection to Star Wars lore.
But maybe that's just me.
And how is this sentiment not just "me me me me me me me me...?"
I want to play a game where they make people play Jedi like I want!1!!!
Its all relative, my friend.
The best thing they could do for this game is perma-ban anyone that talks about SWG, or the PRECioUs, as being a good thing.
We got a number of them, around this site, that spam out anyone that doesnt agree that sandbox/uncle owen play is the greatest. Or worse...they refer to them as ADD/immature/whatever. Kicking and stomping their feet in an attempt to get their view to be the "only" answer.
I would rather put up with the l337 talk, then deal with em spewing about this or this needs to be nerfed cause my trader cant sell his wares. Or setting up a sit down protest in a zone, and disrupting others game play until they get what they want. I really dont see how the kids could be worse. They can be ignored. When Simmers are spamming the dev brds, anything can happen. Like if by chance a suggestion gets out, when no one is looking, the devs may feel an idea isnt strongly disagreed with, and just implement it.
If you have played MMOs long enough, then you know what I mean. Some of the worst ideas have gone into game from Devs listening to the wrong crowd,
As of today I am gonna start spending more time over on the official forums, ensuring the Uncle Owen talk has a countering view when I am around. It would seriously suck to get hit with anything resembling SWG2 ....especially after most of us have waited so long for an adventure based SW IP MMO game.
Ralph screwed us the first time with his RL sim. Hopefully LA learned their lesson. If it was left to Bioware I know what type of games they make...but with LA always behind the wheel, one always has to wonder.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
my replies are in red.
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Star Wars fans will be playing and we won't be concerned wether the game is a sandbox or not because it is Star Wars.
Thank You,
The Silent Majority
lol Short and sweet and awesome. :P
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
lol Short and sweet and awesome. :P
Thank you! I can't wait to play my Sith,Bounty Hunter and evil classes.
Wow...So everyone interested in playing a Jedi class is a "kiddie"...how ignorant is that?
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
You are probably right.
So does LA make this game again for the SWG folks...or does he go after the EQ(bigger market) this time?
Seeing as I am an old school EQer, I want our(PvE) chance at a SW MMO. The sandbox folks had their shot and failed.
Thanks
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
my replies are in red.
No doubt this is Hubert now. Dude...dont mention the same item about 'Raph" between your main and alt accounts. Sheesh you make it easy for us to spot ya. What ya learning in college?
Like I said before kid...unless you played something more head banging than old school EQ dont try to straw man me as being about easy games. EQ was much more involved than SWG...and it was much more popula as well.
Just cause you wanna deny reality doesnt make it any less fact.
Now get a bloody job, and come talk to us adults when you are actually one of us. The technicality of your age doesnt work when you are still attending school at 29. That makes ya a kid that is doing nothing with their life.
Cheerio
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
Yep. Enjoyed the days of Ultima Online and Asheron's Call. Heck, even EQ had an in-depth crafting system, looking at the creation of arrows as an example. Be nice to see other games strive for that level of detail in their non-combat systems.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
Holy sh*t Demalus, I think that one statement hits the bloody nail on the head as effectively as I've ever heard it said.
I may have to quote you on that from time to time.
To the Original Poster and the people that agree with him...you sound elitist. To be honest, I think you'll find that Sith fits your personality better.
Then you won't have to worry about the kiddies, because they always want to play the good guys. But if you're bent on playing a Jedi...then to each his own, I suppose.
Star Wars is supposed to be something special, legendary, heroic, right? The WORST thing they could do therefore is make the game non-heroic, easy-mode, everyone-is-a-hero-by-default, everyone-is-luke-skywalker, ordinary, mundane, mainstream crap. No one has been saying that SWG is the ultimate MMO and that all MMOs need to be like SWG. It's what SWG stood for that people want to see. If you want to be a hero, you need to BE a hero, not click a "I'm a hero" button.
Why are some people so intent upon turning MMOs into non-MMOs?
I missed this post.
Where did I say it isnt supposed to be special? It isnt meant to be a sim of RL jobs is what it isnt supposed to be. No one is talking about easy.
I like how everyone gravitates to throwing the WOW card, or naturally assumes what a person is about.
I started EQ in 01, and it is still my fav game. Nothing about EQ screams easy. Thus I have no clue WTF you are talking about.
I dont think you do either, especially when it comes to me.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I dont care who plays. I love idiots who play video games, makes pissing them off, owning them, and griefing them all the more gratifying. When your conscience starts to tell you youre an online jerk, remembering their idiocy reminds you they deserve it. At least telling myself that allows me to sleep comfortably at night.
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
If that's true, wouldn't SWG have had a lot more subs?
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.