No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game. We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play. You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG. On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Then I don't understand why you are arguing with me since we both agree that grouping should be left an option and not forced.Unless you are trying to say that ability isn't going to be in the game.
I didn't state an opinion on what an MMORPG is, I stated a fact. Look it up if you don't believe me or the site that I got that definition from. No, your KOTOR example doesn't hold water because it wasn't online and it wasn't alongside thousands of other players with the ability to group together. You already have the ability to group up in MMORPGs. It's a real simple group command. Usually it's just right clicking on another players avatar and selecting "Invite to group." WALLA!!! You are both now playing WITH each other and you can continue to play WITH each other as long as the group feels like it. It's a simple mechanic that is in WOW and every MMORPG that I have seen. If that ability wasn't there, then you would be right in saying that it isn't an MMORPG.
Far as SWG and your little snide remark, my money is just as good as your money and I'll play whatever I damn well choose. It's usually solo so I don't have to deal with attitudes like yours. If it's with a group of people it's usually people I know damn well and only because I feel like it;not because of a game mechanic or some moronic custom created by a niche group of players.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
That ladies and gentlemen is what is commonly refered to as "pwning" someone.
Nice post Rydeson.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
So far the people who are willing to give this game a chance seem much more mature than the people who are constantly whining about it and saying they won't touch it. If that pattern holds, then the future of TOR is looking very bright indeed.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
Well, seeing as every statement of yours was based on a false assumption, let me correct you:
Playing WITH other people does NOT mean forced grouping. It has no bearing on grouping at all. I was talking about playing a game WITH other people. In other words, a basic premise of the game is that players interact in meaningful ways. Meaningless "grouping" just so they can say this is an MMO and charge us money does not constitute real player interaction. Playing alongside other players is now a valid definition of an MMO? Well, I guess Diablo II is the most popular MMO then.
If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd play a single player game.
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Star Wars fans will be playing and we won't be concerned wether the game is a sandbox or not because it is Star Wars. Thank You, The Silent Majority
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
If that's true, wouldn't SWG have had a lot more subs?
Not realy. Most sandbox players could care less about Sci-fi or combat, hence why they play Second Life, (I know a lot of vets playing it now). A lot of it has to do with the social aspects of world building. The ones who do find games like SWG fun, liked the sandbox and combat aspects of MMOs, but could care less about the IP.
The person I mentioned was just one example, but I've heard people on these forums over the years state the same thing, they only liked SWG because it had world building in it. A few even said that they still would have played it whether it was based on SW or not. If it had been named Ultima Online 2 they still would have played It since it had the world building apects they desired, as well as the combat and PvP they found fun.
Some of us enjoyed the world building aspects of SWG as well as the IP itself. Some are willing to accept TOR as it may end up being, others not so much. Eitherway the group who want 1) a Star Wars MMO, 2) A Sandbox version of it, and are not willing to accept anything short of that are growing smaller and smaller as those other types of sandbox players find their niches in other games.
See you can't really blanket everyone as the same here, the ones who didn't like SWG back in the day fall into just as many catagories.
Some of you guys are taking this wayyyyy to seriously. SWTOR will be a great game made by a great studio. The simplier the better i say. At least, it will work. SWG was a mess because it was too complex... Devs had problems figuring out on paper so it's easy to understand why the game was such a mess.
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game. We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play. You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG. On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
Well, seeing as every statement of yours was based on a false assumption, let me correct you:
Playing WITH other people does NOT mean forced grouping. It has no bearing on grouping at all. I was talking about playing a game WITH other people. In other words, a basic premise of the game is that players interact in meaningful ways. Meaningless "grouping" just so they can say this is an MMO and charge us money does not constitute real player interaction. Playing alongside other players is now a valid definition of an MMO? Well, I guess Diablo II is the most popular MMO then.
If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd play a single player game.
Then do it. Play with other people in whatever meaningful way you see fit. What's the problem? If you are saying no game out right now gives you the ability to play with other people in a meaningful way, then just what MMORPG stands up to your high standards? Has there been one?
LOL, like tell me one mmo (or any video game) for that matter that isn't less childish then WoW. I mean is Conan less childish cause there is blood? Is GTA less childish cause of the adult crap it has? Give me a break, if your looking to any video game for mature, refine entertainment then YOU need to grow up some more.
Lucas made the cartoons to start a whole new generation of SW fans, don't hate him for that.
I can easily see the same problems in SWToR that Mythic had with WARhammer and DAoC.....You'll get SWG vets in game and they wont give it a fair shot because it isnt like SWG........Most of the DAoC vets did this in WARhammer......They are stuck in the mud with their memories of a game that hardly anyone plays anymore and has left its glory years a long time ago....... People should enjoy their time in certain games but eventually they need to move on and just enjoy the newer games for what they are........You can almost guarantee that a large portion of the SWG fanbase will hate SWToR from the get go simply because it isnt SWG.
I can easily see the same problems in SWToR that Mythic had with WARhammer and DAoC.....You'll get SWG vets in game and they wont give it a fair shot because it isnt like SWG........Most of the DAoC vets did this in WARhammer......They are stuck in the mud with their memories of a game that hardly anyone plays anymore and has left its glory years a long time ago....... People should enjoy their time in certain games but eventually they need to move on and just enjoy the newer games for what they are........You can almost guarantee that a large portion of the SWG fanbase will hate SWToR from the get go simply because it isnt SWG.
Considering it's made by BioWare and not SOE I would hope people don't think like this when it releases. I think people expected WAR and DaoC to be similiar because the Mythic name was hanging above the games logo. But then again some of the SWG vets act like 12 year old kids.
Its dead Jim. Mmo's like beffor WoW are gone. Its mainstream now.
All the loser's of the world are playing Mmo's Move on.
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
You are probably right.
So does LA make this game again for the SWG folks...or does he go after the EQ(bigger market) this time?
Seeing as I am an old school EQer, I want our(PvE) chance at a SW MMO. The sandbox folks had their shot and failed.
Thanks
between the quoted and your sig... i'm not really sure what you're talking about.
when you say pve, do you mean something like "primarily-quest-driven storyline"?
because 'sand box' and 'pve' are far from being mutually exclusive, as the quoted + your sig, insinuate.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I can easily see the same problems in SWToR that Mythic had with WARhammer and DAoC.....You'll get SWG vets in game and they wont give it a fair shot because it isnt like SWG........Most of the DAoC vets did this in WARhammer......They are stuck in the mud with their memories of a game that hardly anyone plays anymore and has left its glory years a long time ago....... People should enjoy their time in certain games but eventually they need to move on and just enjoy the newer games for what they are........You can almost guarantee that a large portion of the SWG fanbase will hate SWToR from the get go simply because it isnt SWG.
you mean people expecting swtor to be like nwn (never winter nights), right?
otherwise, your comparison is a tad off.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled. Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class only to people with an intelligent and character test. Before you laugh it off, yeah its some odd nerdosity, but, it makes me cringe when I think what type of jerks will play that class. Ok, they will play other classes, too, but it only really matters with Jedi. For me, Jedi are one of the best fiction inventions, they are no mere action heroes like thousands of others from thousands of other fiction. Like a Star Trek officer, the idea of a Jedi is some inspiring dream of humans bettering themselves. In ancient times humanity transported ethics via heroic tales, of people overcoming obstacles inside or outside of themselves. And such a thing were Jedi for me. The deeper you delve with all the novels and games, the more you can learn of other points of view, and sure while Star Wars isnt a Holy Book it sure contains some ethical questions. To me thus playing Jedi has to have meaning. And it cringe and sigh at the thought what kind of jerks will play Jedi as action heroes, as killing machines who "hunt Sith" like trophies. Why does it always have to come down to this, which side kills more? Would not the Jedi class in a story-driven game be the one, big chance to make something better, something greater? Deep inside I hope they will impose limits to Jedi which sort of prevent jerks for playing Jedi. A Jedi must act like one, and be more than a soldier, more than just one more killing "bad guys" - action-hero.
Of course for Bioware I am afraid it will pay off more easier to just make Jedi another action melee soldier for the hyper hyper kids and leave those few folks with old fashioned ideas to their dreaming. Sorry for the rambling, I am sure 99% of folks will just wonder what that guy here the heck is talking about...
Well, 12 pages of heated response to this post. I think I can boil down what the OP is trying to say in the post in a better way.
"People are not going to play a Jedi the way I think a Jedi should be played."
Now, I am not flaming and do not carry any animosity to the OP. Just want to point out why making an MMO based upon an IP that has so inspired and meant so much to so many people is a double edged sword.
JEDI and SITH are POWERFULL pop-culture icons. They mean so many different things to so many people. I particularly plan on playing a JEDI that rebels against the Council? Why? I feel they are a bit pompous and Holier than thou attitude needs to be cut down a notch.
Now how many people are going to start a whole thread based upon that one comment? See the power that these 2 pop-culture icons hold over us gamers? Even those who think Star Wars fans are complete nerds and do not understand the passion they have or understand your local trekkie. They will want to play the game and will play it the way they want or they will play the way they feel would most upset a SWGeek. Again showing the power of the 2.
It is hard to make a game with that many people have such a emotional feelings. Will it be done right? Will others play it wrong? So on and so forth.
It is a game. Love it or leave it there will be others online that will be there to play it their way. Do not think to impose your playstyle on others.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Well, 12 pages of heated response to this post. I think I can boil down what the OP is trying to say in the post in a better way. "People are not going to play a Jedi the way I think a Jedi should be played." Now, I am not flaming and do not carry any animosity to the OP. Just want to point out why making an MMO based upon an IP that has so inspired and meant so much to so many people is a double edged sword. JEDI and SITH are POWERFULL pop-culture icons. They mean so many different things to so many people. I particularly plan on playing a JEDI that rebels against the Council? Why? I feel they are a bit pompous and Holier than thou attitude needs to be cut down a notch. Now how many people are going to start a whole thread based upon that one comment? See the power that these 2 pop-culture icons hold over us gamers? Even those who think Star Wars fans are complete nerds and do not understand the passion they have or understand your local trekkie. They will want to play the game and will play it the way they want or they will play the way they feel would most upset a SWGeek. Again showing the power of the 2. It is hard to make a game with that many people have such a emotional feelings. Will it be done right? Will others play it wrong? So on and so forth. It is a game. Love it or leave it there will be others online that will be there to play it their way. Do not think to impose your playstyle on others.
Its dead Jim. Mmo's like beffor WoW are gone. Its mainstream now.
All the loser's of the world are playing Mmo's Move on.
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
You are probably right.
So does LA make this game again for the SWG folks...or does he go after the EQ(bigger market) this time?
Seeing as I am an old school EQer, I want our(PvE) chance at a SW MMO. The sandbox folks had their shot and failed.
Thanks
between the quoted and your sig... i'm not really sure what you're talking about.
when you say pve, do you mean something like "primarily-quest-driven storyline"?
because 'sand box' and 'pve' are far from being mutually exclusive, as the quoted + your sig, insinuate.
I mean all combat classes, no traders as a viable class. No PvP unless it is voluntary or on desginated servers. Basically everything that is different than what is commonly noted as sandbox play.
EQ was its own kind of "sandbox" in that it had tons of things to do. But all of the things were secondary to killing mobs. YOu hear sandbox folks talk about how "there is so much to do in a sandbox". Playing dolls with Uncle Owen, or regrinding templates is not content despite what these folks think.
Perhaps Eve has as much content as EQ....cause SWG sure didnt. I believe the last expansion was number 14 for EQ. Devs can kick out this content when they arent playing "fix the classes cause ya put too many in" ala Koster during beta/launch of SWG.
Sandbox players want all these options to make a game a virtual 2nd life online. But for developers it is a nightmare to balance. Unlike a system with a modest amount of classes, and the ability to concentrate on content production.
No thanks to sandboxes. I want a game to be a game. Can if be difficult? Sure...EQ wasnt like playing checkers IMO. Some of the worst time sinks around. Like many other EQ players, I have sat more than 24 hrs, at a particular camp, waiting on a spawn. Something they toned down in WoW.
Someone mentioned that former SWG players went to 2nd life. That is good, as that is where they belong. The minute you want a game to be something more than that, is the minute you need to be examined.
Other than this whining for over 3 yrs about losing a game, I think one of the funniest things I ever saw out of the SWG community is there was a decent sized movement of players wanting nudity in game. They had it in their sigs on main brd. WHich made it easy to spot the total losers.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
As much as this forum looks very intresting and what not i cant sit and read all 12 pages. So ill just post my thoughts from reading the 1st 2. Well i am a very big story kind of guy. So i agree. Seems like Players focus on Max DPS then anything any more. Hell 95% of all players just spam past the storys for quests and raids. I myself read all of em. Ok, Now i have to poke fun at the "star wars CG" on Cartoon network. Seemed half ass to me. I been a star wars fan since 5 when my grandfather sat down and watched it with me. Keep in mind iam young so that was 15 years ago. Befor 1,2,3 came out. Now my uncles kid(10) is watching the CG one on cartoon network. He thinks its the greatest. I think it was a low blow at star wars to make a few extra dollars, He truly thinks that the new star was is cooler becase of the flashy lights. I sat him down on the 1st 3 and he was bord within 30mins, asking when will there be a lightsaber fight. arrg, oh well mabey its a generation thing. I know this is not what this forum was for but it seemed an ok place to post this. What can i say i can be a bit old school.
As much as this forum looks very intresting and what not i cant sit and read all 12 pages. So ill just post my thoughts from reading the 1st 2. Well i am a very big story kind of guy. So i agree. Seems like Players focus on Max DPS then anything any more. Hell 95% of all players just spam past the storys for quests and raids. I myself read all of em. Ok, Now i have to poke fun at the "star wars CG" on Cartoon network. Seemed half ass to me. I been a star wars fan since 5 when my grandfather sat down and watched it with me. Keep in mind iam young so that was 15 years ago. Befor 1,2,3 came out. Now my uncles kid(10) is watching the CG one on cartoon network. He thinks its the greatest. I think it was a low blow at star wars to make a few extra dollars, He truly thinks that the new star was is cooler becase of the flashy lights. I sat him down on the 1st 3 and he was bord within 30mins, asking when will there be a lightsaber fight. arrg, oh well mabey its a generation thing. I know this is not what this forum was for but it seemed an ok place to post this. What can i say i can be a bit old school.
If they think the original trilogy is slow I'd hate to think what their opinion of The Godfather would be
You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled. Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class
You know I honestly don't care if 99% of people want to be a Jedi...
I never wanted to be when SWG was announced (as an example). If I play ToR I won't be a Jedi... When I saw The Empire Strikes back I liked the bounty hunters.... so that's what I was when SWG came out.. most likely what I will be in ToR.
However, to this paticular subject... it does bother me... why?
Not every person in the Star Wars Universe could be or was a Jedi. Yet in an MMO.. everyone should be able to be a jedi.
I have a personal feeling on how that should be handled but I will spare you the huge wall of text. (the type of thing you are seeing is also people who think they would "pass that test" and be able to be a Jedi yet it would somehow exclude a lot of people... that's the motivation.)
Based on what we saw in the work from Lucas... it would be more like you bought the winning power ball ticket (as opposed to some random IQ test or holo grind).
You know, I am a Star Wars fan/geek for almost 30 years and a roleplayer for also a very long time. For me the idea to play a Jedi in a virtual RP setting like a MMO is like a dream. A dream SWG had never fulfilled. Somehow, following the SWTOR forums has saddened me. While there are sure some good and insightful people, a lot seem to be of a way... Somehow I wish you could limit Jedi class only to people with an intelligent and character test. Before you laugh it off, yeah its some odd nerdosity, but, it makes me cringe when I think what type of jerks will play that class. Ok, they will play other classes, too, but it only really matters with Jedi. For me, Jedi are one of the best fiction inventions, they are no mere action heroes like thousands of others from thousands of other fiction. Like a Star Trek officer, the idea of a Jedi is some inspiring dream of humans bettering themselves. In ancient times humanity transported ethics via heroic tales, of people overcoming obstacles inside or outside of themselves. And such a thing were Jedi for me. The deeper you delve with all the novels and games, the more you can learn of other points of view, and sure while Star Wars isnt a Holy Book it sure contains some ethical questions. To me thus playing Jedi has to have meaning. And it cringe and sigh at the thought what kind of jerks will play Jedi as action heroes, as killing machines who "hunt Sith" like trophies. Why does it always have to come down to this, which side kills more? Would not the Jedi class in a story-driven game be the one, big chance to make something better, something greater? Deep inside I hope they will impose limits to Jedi which sort of prevent jerks for playing Jedi. A Jedi must act like one, and be more than a soldier, more than just one more killing "bad guys" - action-hero.
Of course for Bioware I am afraid it will pay off more easier to just make Jedi another action melee soldier for the hyper hyper kids and leave those few folks with old fashioned ideas to their dreaming. Sorry for the rambling, I am sure 99% of folks will just wonder what that guy here the heck is talking about...
This is one of those things that cannot be helped. IF, like myself, you have been a fan for 30+ years then I am sure you have had your experiences in pnp role playing games as well. Think of the Paladin as originally envisioned in the AD&D 2nd edition rulesets. Then think of how many people roll up paladins in any number of mmo games then throw away all of the core principles that provide the foundation for the paladin class. Or how about the Barbarian? In every mmorpg that has come out they have had these iconic classes that are far deeper than a set of abilities yet that is all that they become.
Look at SWG. During the earliest days of the game I remember sitting and chatting in the cantina as I was getting ready to log for the night when someone would come in and be totally out of sorts. Come to find it was because they accidentally killed a Jawa and were sure that they would have to delete and start over because they would have no way of unlocking a jedi slot. When SOE got tired of people being, supposedly, oh so close to unlocking but not they went and catered to the lowest common denominator and the game became little more than who can grind out as many profs as fast as possible to unlock jedi. Then, instead of playing the game, they started their little fight clubs to max out their jedi with 0 risk.
But this is also one of hte strengths of the MMO. You don't have to play with them. Don't have to guild with them, party with them or even recognize their existence. If swg is any example then I would wager more than half the people that roll up a jedi should be forced into the sith category lol. At least I hope that there will be mechanisms in the game to try and steer people towards playing their characters with a certain mentality. Of course this would be met with a good deal of whining and the like from those that want to be all powerful uber good jedi lol.
I think the game will definitely be interesting and am looking forward to playing it. Hopefully it will be out sometime relatively soon rather than waiting for 2012 or some such nonsense lol.
Is it just me, or anyone else getting the feeling there are ONLY 2 classes in the game.. 1) glow stick user .aka Jedi, and 2) glow stick killer .aka Bounty Hunter.. I can see it now.. The forums will be over run with post by Jedi's that get killed to often and too fast and wine they aren't uber enough.. "Darth Vader never gets PWN'ed 10 times a day" OR.. we'll get over run with the post by Bounty Hunters demanding they should be able to get contracts on ANY player in the game.. I guess we'll just wait and see.. I already sense they PvPer's of the game are focusing on BH's so they can gank at will... OR so they think they can..
Is it just me, or anyone else getting the feeling there are ONLY 2 classes in the game.. 1) glow stick user .aka Jedi, and 2) glow stick killer .aka Bounty Hunter.. I can see it now.. The forums will be over run with post by Jedi's that get killed to often and too fast and wine they aren't uber enough.. "Darth Vader never gets PWN'ed 10 times a day" OR.. we'll get over run with the post by Bounty Hunters demanding they should be able to get contracts on ANY player in the game.. I guess we'll just wait and see.. I already sense they PvPer's of the game are focusing on BH's so they can gank at will... OR so they think they can..
If a PBS system gets put in place, you can count on it. Hopefully that's another lesson for companies to learn:You can't create an alpha class that's forced PVP and expect it to work.
Comments
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Then I don't understand why you are arguing with me since we both agree that grouping should be left an option and not forced.Unless you are trying to say that ability isn't going to be in the game.
I didn't state an opinion on what an MMORPG is, I stated a fact. Look it up if you don't believe me or the site that I got that definition from. No, your KOTOR example doesn't hold water because it wasn't online and it wasn't alongside thousands of other players with the ability to group together. You already have the ability to group up in MMORPGs. It's a real simple group command. Usually it's just right clicking on another players avatar and selecting "Invite to group." WALLA!!! You are both now playing WITH each other and you can continue to play WITH each other as long as the group feels like it. It's a simple mechanic that is in WOW and every MMORPG that I have seen. If that ability wasn't there, then you would be right in saying that it isn't an MMORPG.
Far as SWG and your little snide remark, my money is just as good as your money and I'll play whatever I damn well choose. It's usually solo so I don't have to deal with attitudes like yours. If it's with a group of people it's usually people I know damn well and only because I feel like it;not because of a game mechanic or some moronic custom created by a niche group of players.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
That ladies and gentlemen is what is commonly refered to as "pwning" someone.
Nice post Rydeson.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You do realize that what you said is an opinion, yet you state it like its an empirical fact, right?
In my opinion, the people who seem to like this game seem to overlook the fact that the developers basically want to make a kotor/wow hybrid (they've said many times how much they like WoW and want to make a "standard MMO with an extra pillar added").
But here's a fun little piece of logic. The people who don't seem to like this game usually state that they liked pre-WoW games (empirical truth, prove me wrong). Now, if you believe that those communites were pretty mature (it's up to you to decide if they were), wouldn't the people who are upset at the direction this game is taken be the mature crowd?
Does it not bother you people that the "MMO" is being ripped out of "MMORPG"? Isn't the "MMO" portion why we all fell in love with this genre?
No one's overlooking anything. We LIKE having a game that doesn't force you to group with people just to play the game.
We LIKE having a story based game to go along with whatever our imagination comes up with. If you like grouping up with people then do it. Nothing that has been said so far tells me that the game is being put together which will not allow grouping in any way. Find yourself a group of friends, create a guild, and play the game whatever ways you guys want. But don't try and force that playstyle on anyone else. Contrary to what you may think, it is not he be all and end all style of playing an MMO.Long as people are paying 15 dollars a month for the game, their opinion is just as vaild as the so called "salty" vets who long for the old days of forced grouping and sandbox play.
You also need to look up the definition of MMORPG and then get back to me because you have a gross misinterpretation of what that word means. Nothing in it says that players have to all be playing with each other. As long as there is a mass group of people playing in the same virtual world that changes according to their actions, then it is an MMORPG.
On what you think are a mature crowd, no the majority of posters I have seen who are against this game are some of the most imature people I have ever seen. It doesn't suprise me because the majority of them are angry SWG players who want Bioware to make SWG2 2003 style. I played that game from two and half years thru all its incarnations and I along with the majority of players who played it don't miss it. We don't miss waiting around for a doctor and entertainer just so we can play a game. We don't miss extreme decay of our armour and weapons which forces us to deal with greedy crafters who want insane prices for their stuff. We don't miss the lag cause by unstable servers and hundreds of empty houses.Most of all, I in particular don't miss that community, which was the most greedy and selfish I have ever seen in an MMORPG. It wasn't just in game, it was also seen on the SWG forums on a consistent basis. Everyone wanted to nerf everybody and the most selfish and imature went jedi so they could kill everyone and destroy PVP. Now they are trying to bring those same mechanics to every game in development and they are quit rude when they do it.They know that Bioware is going the complete opposite direction they want, yet they still spam the same garbage. You see it on this site and it's just as bad on the TOR website because netiher site moderates their forums. If they were actually mature, they would be spending time in the forums of games that ARE making a game closer to what they want. If they actually spent time in the VET SWG forum, they would see former players discussing those games instead of trolling this game.
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
Well, seeing as every statement of yours was based on a false assumption, let me correct you:
Playing WITH other people does NOT mean forced grouping. It has no bearing on grouping at all. I was talking about playing a game WITH other people. In other words, a basic premise of the game is that players interact in meaningful ways. Meaningless "grouping" just so they can say this is an MMO and charge us money does not constitute real player interaction. Playing alongside other players is now a valid definition of an MMO? Well, I guess Diablo II is the most popular MMO then.
If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd play a single player game.
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Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Yep. I was pretty disappointed to actually hear one of my old guildmates from SWG say he wasn't a Star Wars fan, just a sandbox fan and that was the only reason he played SWG. He said he won't be playing TOR because it didn't sound like it was gonna be like pre-cu SWG. lol, oh well see ya then.
If that's true, wouldn't SWG have had a lot more subs?
Not realy. Most sandbox players could care less about Sci-fi or combat, hence why they play Second Life, (I know a lot of vets playing it now). A lot of it has to do with the social aspects of world building. The ones who do find games like SWG fun, liked the sandbox and combat aspects of MMOs, but could care less about the IP.
The person I mentioned was just one example, but I've heard people on these forums over the years state the same thing, they only liked SWG because it had world building in it. A few even said that they still would have played it whether it was based on SW or not. If it had been named Ultima Online 2 they still would have played It since it had the world building apects they desired, as well as the combat and PvP they found fun.
Some of us enjoyed the world building aspects of SWG as well as the IP itself. Some are willing to accept TOR as it may end up being, others not so much. Eitherway the group who want 1) a Star Wars MMO, 2) A Sandbox version of it, and are not willing to accept anything short of that are growing smaller and smaller as those other types of sandbox players find their niches in other games.
See you can't really blanket everyone as the same here, the ones who didn't like SWG back in the day fall into just as many catagories.
Some of you guys are taking this wayyyyy to seriously. SWTOR will be a great game made by a great studio. The simplier the better i say. At least, it will work. SWG was a mess because it was too complex... Devs had problems figuring out on paper so it's easy to understand why the game was such a mess.
eqnext.wikia.com
I didn't say anything about forced grouping. I personally level up solo, why? It's because leveling up sucks and shouldn't be part of MMOs. I think you need to look up what an MMO is. Actually there is nothing about MMO by definition that says GROUPS are REQUIRED.. try webster.com for definitions It is playing WITH each other, not alongside each other. In your definition I could make the case that Kotor1 and 2 were MMOs because many people were playing the game at the same time. Hell, XBox Live games are MMOs then... The WHOLE point of MMOs is to play WITH other people, and is why this genre is where it is today. wrong wrong wrong.. The whole point of MMO is socializing.. Some people prefer socialize 10% of the time, other 90% of the time.. NEITHER is wrong.. The only thing I can say to your last paragraph about SWG is: go play single player games, because clearly you don't like the "MMO" portion of this genre.
The point of adding multiplayer is so players can play with each other, not to just say that the game is multiplayer.
I'm not trying to say one play style is better than the other. YES you are, it's all you've been saying .. I'm merely commenting that this genre is about playing WITH Playing WITH doesn't require one to be grouped with others to be a MMO.. perfect example of this would of been any crafting profession in SWG or similar MMO's.. that allowed people to be oline in a NON-group enviroment and role play.. a massive amount of other people (although not technically possible all the time). I'm also NOT advocating forced grouping or forced soloing. YES, you were.. There shouldn't even be the concept of "forced grouping/soloing". There are so many arcane game mechanics that we just simply do not need anymore.
Blizzard does the solo/group thing the best of any game on the market today.. If you want to solo, go for it.. If you want to group up with others.. go for it.. There is plenty of content for both..
Well, seeing as every statement of yours was based on a false assumption, let me correct you:
Playing WITH other people does NOT mean forced grouping. It has no bearing on grouping at all. I was talking about playing a game WITH other people. In other words, a basic premise of the game is that players interact in meaningful ways. Meaningless "grouping" just so they can say this is an MMO and charge us money does not constitute real player interaction. Playing alongside other players is now a valid definition of an MMO? Well, I guess Diablo II is the most popular MMO then.
If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd play a single player game.
Then do it. Play with other people in whatever meaningful way you see fit. What's the problem? If you are saying no game out right now gives you the ability to play with other people in a meaningful way, then just what MMORPG stands up to your high standards? Has there been one?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
What kinds of people will play this?
See: World of Kiddiecraft
So you plan on joining?
LOL, like tell me one mmo (or any video game) for that matter that isn't less childish then WoW. I mean is Conan less childish cause there is blood? Is GTA less childish cause of the adult crap it has? Give me a break, if your looking to any video game for mature, refine entertainment then YOU need to grow up some more.
Lucas made the cartoons to start a whole new generation of SW fans, don't hate him for that.
I can easily see the same problems in SWToR that Mythic had with WARhammer and DAoC.....You'll get SWG vets in game and they wont give it a fair shot because it isnt like SWG........Most of the DAoC vets did this in WARhammer......They are stuck in the mud with their memories of a game that hardly anyone plays anymore and has left its glory years a long time ago....... People should enjoy their time in certain games but eventually they need to move on and just enjoy the newer games for what they are........You can almost guarantee that a large portion of the SWG fanbase will hate SWToR from the get go simply because it isnt SWG.
Considering it's made by BioWare and not SOE I would hope people don't think like this when it releases. I think people expected WAR and DaoC to be similiar because the Mythic name was hanging above the games logo. But then again some of the SWG vets act like 12 year old kids.
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
You are probably right.
So does LA make this game again for the SWG folks...or does he go after the EQ(bigger market) this time?
Seeing as I am an old school EQer, I want our(PvE) chance at a SW MMO. The sandbox folks had their shot and failed.
Thanks
between the quoted and your sig... i'm not really sure what you're talking about.
when you say pve, do you mean something like "primarily-quest-driven storyline"?
because 'sand box' and 'pve' are far from being mutually exclusive, as the quoted + your sig, insinuate.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
you mean people expecting swtor to be like nwn (never winter nights), right?
otherwise, your comparison is a tad off.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Only a tad. But he has a point and a poll proves it on this site. Think it was 34% of those who voted are hoping it will be a SWG2.
Well, 12 pages of heated response to this post. I think I can boil down what the OP is trying to say in the post in a better way.
"People are not going to play a Jedi the way I think a Jedi should be played."
Now, I am not flaming and do not carry any animosity to the OP. Just want to point out why making an MMO based upon an IP that has so inspired and meant so much to so many people is a double edged sword.
JEDI and SITH are POWERFULL pop-culture icons. They mean so many different things to so many people. I particularly plan on playing a JEDI that rebels against the Council? Why? I feel they are a bit pompous and Holier than thou attitude needs to be cut down a notch.
Now how many people are going to start a whole thread based upon that one comment? See the power that these 2 pop-culture icons hold over us gamers? Even those who think Star Wars fans are complete nerds and do not understand the passion they have or understand your local trekkie. They will want to play the game and will play it the way they want or they will play the way they feel would most upset a SWGeek. Again showing the power of the 2.
It is hard to make a game with that many people have such a emotional feelings. Will it be done right? Will others play it wrong? So on and so forth.
It is a game. Love it or leave it there will be others online that will be there to play it their way. Do not think to impose your playstyle on others.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
So you plan on joining?
Yes.
Best line I've seen yet in this thread.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Actually, MMOs were much better when it was just us losers playing
You are probably right.
So does LA make this game again for the SWG folks...or does he go after the EQ(bigger market) this time?
Seeing as I am an old school EQer, I want our(PvE) chance at a SW MMO. The sandbox folks had their shot and failed.
Thanks
between the quoted and your sig... i'm not really sure what you're talking about.
when you say pve, do you mean something like "primarily-quest-driven storyline"?
because 'sand box' and 'pve' are far from being mutually exclusive, as the quoted + your sig, insinuate.
I mean all combat classes, no traders as a viable class. No PvP unless it is voluntary or on desginated servers. Basically everything that is different than what is commonly noted as sandbox play.
EQ was its own kind of "sandbox" in that it had tons of things to do. But all of the things were secondary to killing mobs. YOu hear sandbox folks talk about how "there is so much to do in a sandbox". Playing dolls with Uncle Owen, or regrinding templates is not content despite what these folks think.
Perhaps Eve has as much content as EQ....cause SWG sure didnt. I believe the last expansion was number 14 for EQ. Devs can kick out this content when they arent playing "fix the classes cause ya put too many in" ala Koster during beta/launch of SWG.
Sandbox players want all these options to make a game a virtual 2nd life online. But for developers it is a nightmare to balance. Unlike a system with a modest amount of classes, and the ability to concentrate on content production.
No thanks to sandboxes. I want a game to be a game. Can if be difficult? Sure...EQ wasnt like playing checkers IMO. Some of the worst time sinks around. Like many other EQ players, I have sat more than 24 hrs, at a particular camp, waiting on a spawn. Something they toned down in WoW.
Someone mentioned that former SWG players went to 2nd life. That is good, as that is where they belong. The minute you want a game to be something more than that, is the minute you need to be examined.
Other than this whining for over 3 yrs about losing a game, I think one of the funniest things I ever saw out of the SWG community is there was a decent sized movement of players wanting nudity in game. They had it in their sigs on main brd. WHich made it easy to spot the total losers.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
As much as this forum looks very intresting and what not i cant sit and read all 12 pages. So ill just post my thoughts from reading the 1st 2. Well i am a very big story kind of guy. So i agree. Seems like Players focus on Max DPS then anything any more. Hell 95% of all players just spam past the storys for quests and raids. I myself read all of em. Ok, Now i have to poke fun at the "star wars CG" on Cartoon network. Seemed half ass to me. I been a star wars fan since 5 when my grandfather sat down and watched it with me. Keep in mind iam young so that was 15 years ago. Befor 1,2,3 came out. Now my uncles kid(10) is watching the CG one on cartoon network. He thinks its the greatest. I think it was a low blow at star wars to make a few extra dollars, He truly thinks that the new star was is cooler becase of the flashy lights. I sat him down on the 1st 3 and he was bord within 30mins, asking when will there be a lightsaber fight. arrg, oh well mabey its a generation thing. I know this is not what this forum was for but it seemed an ok place to post this. What can i say i can be a bit old school.
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If they think the original trilogy is slow I'd hate to think what their opinion of The Godfather would be
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You know I honestly don't care if 99% of people want to be a Jedi...
I never wanted to be when SWG was announced (as an example). If I play ToR I won't be a Jedi... When I saw The Empire Strikes back I liked the bounty hunters.... so that's what I was when SWG came out.. most likely what I will be in ToR.
However, to this paticular subject... it does bother me... why?
Not every person in the Star Wars Universe could be or was a Jedi. Yet in an MMO.. everyone should be able to be a jedi.
I have a personal feeling on how that should be handled but I will spare you the huge wall of text. (the type of thing you are seeing is also people who think they would "pass that test" and be able to be a Jedi yet it would somehow exclude a lot of people... that's the motivation.)
Based on what we saw in the work from Lucas... it would be more like you bought the winning power ball ticket (as opposed to some random IQ test or holo grind).
This is one of those things that cannot be helped. IF, like myself, you have been a fan for 30+ years then I am sure you have had your experiences in pnp role playing games as well. Think of the Paladin as originally envisioned in the AD&D 2nd edition rulesets. Then think of how many people roll up paladins in any number of mmo games then throw away all of the core principles that provide the foundation for the paladin class. Or how about the Barbarian? In every mmorpg that has come out they have had these iconic classes that are far deeper than a set of abilities yet that is all that they become.
Look at SWG. During the earliest days of the game I remember sitting and chatting in the cantina as I was getting ready to log for the night when someone would come in and be totally out of sorts. Come to find it was because they accidentally killed a Jawa and were sure that they would have to delete and start over because they would have no way of unlocking a jedi slot. When SOE got tired of people being, supposedly, oh so close to unlocking but not they went and catered to the lowest common denominator and the game became little more than who can grind out as many profs as fast as possible to unlock jedi. Then, instead of playing the game, they started their little fight clubs to max out their jedi with 0 risk.
But this is also one of hte strengths of the MMO. You don't have to play with them. Don't have to guild with them, party with them or even recognize their existence. If swg is any example then I would wager more than half the people that roll up a jedi should be forced into the sith category lol. At least I hope that there will be mechanisms in the game to try and steer people towards playing their characters with a certain mentality. Of course this would be met with a good deal of whining and the like from those that want to be all powerful uber good jedi lol.
I think the game will definitely be interesting and am looking forward to playing it. Hopefully it will be out sometime relatively soon rather than waiting for 2012 or some such nonsense lol.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Is it just me, or anyone else getting the feeling there are ONLY 2 classes in the game.. 1) glow stick user .aka Jedi, and 2) glow stick killer .aka Bounty Hunter.. I can see it now.. The forums will be over run with post by Jedi's that get killed to often and too fast and wine they aren't uber enough.. "Darth Vader never gets PWN'ed 10 times a day" OR.. we'll get over run with the post by Bounty Hunters demanding they should be able to get contracts on ANY player in the game.. I guess we'll just wait and see.. I already sense they PvPer's of the game are focusing on BH's so they can gank at will... OR so they think they can..
If a PBS system gets put in place, you can count on it. Hopefully that's another lesson for companies to learn:You can't create an alpha class that's forced PVP and expect it to work.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft