Sigh.. You want to talk bloody statistics? Here you go. In Russia about 60-70 percents of teenagers and young adults drink an "energy cocktail" (alcoholic), known as "Jaguar". Highly toxic, highly unhealthy, yet they buy 2-3 cans a day, just to puke it all tommorow. Effectively destroying their liver and (to an extent) their brain. Gee, this sure does mean, that Jaguar is the best thing ever! They make huge profit and outsell everyone on the market! Cut me a break. WoW is not a bad game. In fact, I like it. But the thing is - WoW is not the best MMO out there. And will never be. The "simplicity" of it is not the point, but rather it's shalowness. You can't do much - crafting is useless, leveling is a solo minigame, the raiding is basically the same in every other game, the PvP is... There. That's all I can say about it. The RP is barely existent. There are no side-activities - no housing, no collecting, no build experimenting... Nothing. The players have no visual difference (seriously, FFXI had more) and the community... Sigh... The community is another thread entirely. And yet I play it. Why? Because it's a fun game. It's a MMO version of Geometry Wars - sweet and short. But sometimes, I crave something akin to Heroes of Might and Magic, or, say, Baldur's Gate.
Whose saying that World of Warcraft is the best game ever?
Whose saying that World of Warcraft is the best game ever?
I'm pretty sure that the employees and share holders are...
I'm not sure in a "for profit" business what other opinion matters?
So the "Jaguar" is the best beverage ever? And Hannah Montana is the best... Whatever the hell she is?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
[Mod Edit]
Ok figures means nothing, when they do not support your arguement. 12 millions subs means nothing to you. But you quoted what? 30 people you know that proves WoW players are cheap and cannot afford to pay for better computers. Now figures means something b/c they support your argument. Come on, make up your mind, is 30 a stronger support to an argument than 12 million? The 30 you know represents the entire 12 million? I casually browsed the web and found more than 30 persons posting online seeking ways to configure high level display cards or vista, to play WoW, now we have more than 30 people willing to buy good hardware to play WoW. Does that defeats your argument?
You have to remind us that WoW has family appeal? Thank you for the big reminder. How about I tell you that WoW has a wider social appeal than just a family. My family members play it, even after we no longer live together. Many friends and colleagues play it. So what? That proves WoW is weak? is simple to play? appeals to a wider spectrum of people? How is that a weakness?
You want a game in which you are tortured, in which you need to run around for an hour to find a mob, or wait spam for an hour to form a group, to have to find the right group just to head out of town? Ok, good for you. I wonder why people find improvements in household appliances "good", but simplication of UI and game mechanisms "dumb down". If you do not want to be dumbed down, do not use washing machine, vacuum machine nor even cooker. Better still grow your own wheat and make your own bread. Milk your own cow and never visit a grocery. Throw money out of the window and do every chore yourself.
WoW cuts out the stupid time sinks in EQ, the competitor they face when they started some 4 years ago. They replace the stupid timesinks with another form of timesink, that is more fun. Lets use EQ in its hey days (before WoW) as an illustration. If you want to use another game, do it yourself.
(1) In EQ you waste time going to the instance. Yeah no kidding, we wipe a lot just reaching the zone in. Which is not fun. In WoW you just need 2 persons to reach the summoning stone, where as in EQ you have to wait for all raid members to make his way there. In WoW you can summon people directly into the instance (warlocks) to replace lost members, in EQ you have to fight back all the way to zone in to pick up the new member. How many times we wipe trying to get out to pick up replacement member, then having to fight in nake to get our corpse or fight nake to zone in and have someone go to get enough coffins to summon the corpses? I find more fun actually doing the instance, than spending the same amount of time trying to set up for the instance.
(2) In EQ you have to walk, and ridiculous walking time, to get from one place to another. That leads to many of us loggin alts in different instances, and using only the alt for that instance. Travelling in EQ is not funny nor friendly. WoW provides flightpaths, flying mounts. That saves a lot of troubles. I would say CoX is most friendly in terms of mobility, and superjump is outright fun. Do I want to spent time walking from place to place or have me forced to play only this alt for this instance? No, I prefer the freedom in WoW, in which I pool all my alts in dalaran, and select the alt I prefer to play today.
(3) EQ makes recovery from wipes a pain. Well there are times when wipes are caused by accidents. Server spike have killed lots of raids. Why should we waste hours trying to recover, b/c the server spikes? Why should we lose a level after some painful raid wipes, and have to go back to pve to recover the level in order to resume raiding, cos lvl 60 give us some spells or skill vital to raids, and droppin down to lvl 59 means bye bye to raiding? WoW makes death a minor issue, so we can wipe laugh and try again. Not everyone online have 12 hours per session, and easy recovery from wipes makes it possible to get something done in 2 or 3 hours, with simple solution to replacing members and keeping the raid going on for 4-6 hours. Its not unknown that the starting group replaces half its members by the time the raid comes to an end. Can you do that in EQ?
(4) WoW keeps enhancing its interace, I am not talking about the mods. The little details makes life very comfortable in raids. You know whether your raid member is in range to your heals, you know who has debuffs. You have options to display what, say hp bars of mobs on top of the mobs. You have so much room to configurate, with different setting for each alt. You got fancy little details that just makes life easy. I do not see how this is dumb down. Some mods do make the game a bit too easy, and you have the option not to use it. I do not. But the efforts of WoW in creating a first class "configurable" UI, is a classic example of customer service. I am given options, which allows me to set up the difficulty level I want. If you want challenge, you can remove all setting and play in the old EQ way, find your member one by one my hand and heal with no debuffing displayed. You can do it.
(5) WoW makes a game in which there are so many different things to do. Much more than EQ. Whether you like it or not is your issue. There are people who likes some of each. That is the key to WoW's success, different people, in different mood, could still find something to do in WoW. In EQ, after reaching max level, you will be waiing for a group to form up to raid. In WoW there are various raids to choose from, and you can pvp while waiting for a raid to form, or craft or harvest or do dailies (and various kinds of them). Yes daily is repetitive, but still more fun than just sitting at zone in waiting for the raid to form.
Not that WoW is without weakness. But to use a sweeping statement to dismiss WoW, like you did, is simply unconvincing.
You know whats funny... Every single point you made for WoW is the reason I dislike WoW... Everything is handed to you without any effort. That makes for a very boring game.
In EQ1 you felt like you earned everything you got and every level you got.
WoW is on easy mode, with all the mods and the quests. EQ1 made you think while playing, WoW any moron can play and does play by the way.
EQ1 had the best community I ever been a part of. In WoW was one of the worst communities. I only talked to my guild members because the rest of the people were morons.
In EQ1 I used to join PuGs all the time (pick up groups), in WoW I would never ever think of joining a PuG.
I loved how death ment bad things in EQ1 as it should, it should make you fear dieing and do everything in you power not to die, in WoW death is a way to travel because it means nothing.
You can replace memebers of your raid in EQ1 without problems, we used to do it all the time.
Travel? You cannot be bothered to travel from location to location? Instead you want everything made easy, your the type of player that has ruined what MMOs should be. Your the type of player that was all the rewards without putting forth any effort, you are part of the "I WANT IT NOW" crowd that is ruining everything today (in RL as well) least of which is my MMO experience.
I am sorry but WoW is a solid game but it is geared toward people that want everything now, without any effort or thinking. WoW is successful because people today are lazy and want someone else to do the work and they sit back and get the rewards. WoW is fast food and EQ1 is fine dinning.
Ahh, it was an "I'm going to point out the obvious" thread. Got ya. Can I join in? I'm amazed that there hasn't been a good MMO released since WoW. I'm amazed people continue to run on that gear tredmill for 4 and 1/2 years. Don't get me wrong, I think WoW is great for what it is, but I'm still amazed that people haven't figured out that the game is nothing more than a gear tredmill, or if they have, that they actually enjoy it.
Frankly, I think WoW's initial success was due to advertising and polish, but since then it's continued success is due to lack of competition, incredibly high accessability, and simply because it's popular so everyone plays it, even if it isn't the best product on the market. Like Itunes, or something along those lines.
There is NOTHING wrong with a well made gear thread mill. That is the main stay of hack-n-slash games (just look at Diablo 1 & 2).
I have played wow off and on for 3ish years also, very polished and overall a very good game. I wonder about if there are 11.5m accounts how many of those are active?
Good question. I don't know why people would pay for a game that they aren't playing unless they did a year long sub and stopped after a few months. That's why I either do monthly of three month subs.
uhmm you missed the point.
I have an account.
its turned off cause I reached 80 went yawn.
so they can claim account numbers but what is the active number? IE how many are subbing today.
played:WoW and Eve off and on 5 years Tried:CoH/V, PoTBS, War, TR, STO, FE TOR is likely to rock
I have played wow off and on for 3ish years also, very polished and overall a very good game. I wonder about if there are 11.5m accounts how many of those are active?
Good question. I don't know why people would pay for a game that they aren't playing unless they did a year long sub and stopped after a few months. That's why I either do monthly of three month subs.
uhmm you missed the point.
I have an account.
its turned off cause I reached 80 went yawn.
so they can claim account numbers but what is the active number? IE how many are subbing today.
Ummmmm....Then you aren't being counted.
"World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules. "
i ve enjoyed wow on and off for about 4 years now . it is as much a social phenomina as a game . its strength in part is that it is a vast virtual chat room . but it would be foolish to think such numbers of subscirbers can be maintained . warcraft will face a decline at some point . the reason it has such a massive market share are as much to other games weaknesses as warcrafts strengths . we ve seen one high profile game after another fail to make any real impact . it only will take one decent mmo to be released that makes warcraft look dated and warcraft will see an exodus . its not a question of if that happens but when . i personally think they ll be number 1 for a few years to come .
i ve enjoyed wow on and off for about 4 years now . it is as much a social phenomina as a game . its strength in part is that it is a vast virtual chat room . but it would be foolish to think such numbers of subscirbers can be maintained . warcraft will face a decline at some point . the reason it has such a massive market share are as much to other games weaknesses as warcrafts strengths . we ve seen one high profile game after another fail to make any real impact . it only will take one decent mmo to be released that makes warcraft look dated and warcraft will see an exodus . its not a question of if that happens but when . i personally think they ll be number 1 for a few years to come .
With the amount of embarassingly bad MMOs that keep coming out trying to compete with WoW, I really don't know anymore.
WoW was good until bc came out and ruined it imo. The raids were harder before bc and u actually had to work for your gear now everybody can get what i get wihtout even trying. The game is to easy now. I ran strat over 100 times for my blue set pants and at the time they were the best pants in the game. This is for 15 year olds and under and teh people that can't afford a real computer. Lets not forget the 10 million of those subscribers are asians and farmers making a living off lazy americans.
Blizzard knows how to advertise and WoW rns good on almost any PC. How many people bought the game after they saw it on South Park? I've played a lot of mmorpgs and WoW is nothing new. I know people that have never heard of an mmo that play WoW just because its the only one they have ever heard of thanks to brillant advertising. I think if anyone is to get an award for this is should be Blizzards marketing department.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
I actually just resubed for WoW today after roughly 9 months of not playing it. When I left the game I quit because of poor pvp, and was just getting bored. I was also and still do argue against WoW being the most amazing mmo ever made, but I also still recognize the fun moments that it can provide. It's not perfect but not too many things in this world are.
So now I will be returning to WoW to play it with my gf who has never tried it before, and I am looking forward to sharing the game and exploring t with her. She has also warned me many time now that she will probably die many times due to curiosity and wandering where she shouldn't be. I think I'll stay busy keeping her alive. Even though I disliked WoW ever since I left I still find myself looking forward to playing it, and vicariously experiencing the game as a novel experience through her.
I see the naysayers and ego-hounds are still at it trying to debunk the game and said players of that game by insulting their age,skill, attention span and taste. I guess trying to stop them from spewing their bile is like trying to get a them to find a game that will keep them so happy, they won't post hate in here anymore......well that ain't gonna happen...post away fellas!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Thank you Ramon for that delightfully irrelevant commentary. Looking at your post, isn't your rhetoric just the same garbage but from a different angle? I digress...
Well all know why the game is dominating, and despite Blizzard's sometimes... bewildering design choices, they have been a great success. I think it's about time for the landscape to change again. Just like how WoW changed the landscape. Problem is, everyone looks at WoW and attempts to make a half hearted copy with an eight of the game's current content and about a quarter of it's replayability. (And WoW doesnt have a whole lot to begin with, if you discard the gear treadmill!)
The one who dethrones this game will be the first who successfuly changes the MMORPG landscape again.
A good start would be realizing that Gear does not equate to gameplay / content / replay value. All it does is create a new goal for players to senselessly chase for. However meager the upgrade, if you dangle a slightly new item in front of players; they will grind tirelessly to attain in this game, even if it requires them to run a stale, 3 year old map 47 times. (In in AV's case, AFK macro)
Thank you Ramon for that delightfully irrelevant commentary. Looking at your post, isn't your rhetoric just the same garbage but from a different angle? I digress...
Well all know why the game is dominating, and despite Blizzard's sometimes... bewildering design choices, they have been a great success. I think it's about time for the landscape to change again. Just like how WoW changed the landscape. Problem is, everyone looks at WoW and attempts to make a half hearted copy with an eight of the game's current content and about a quarter of it's replayability. (And WoW doesnt have a whole lot to begin with, if you discard the gear treadmill!)
The one who dethrones this game will be the first who successfuly changes the MMORPG landscape again.
A good start would be realizing that Gear does not equate to gameplay / content / replay value. All it does is create a new goal for players to senselessly chase for. However meager the upgrade, if you dangle a slightly new item in front of players; they will grind tirelessly to attain in this game, even if it requires them to run a stale, 3 year old map 47 times. (In in AV's case, AFK macro)
For your information I posted my due diligence about my views on topic further up in the thread, now if you're to "busy" to read through them all to find it, then that's on you. Do not wave your half-hearted attempts to use quips to try to elevate your position on the subject at hand. The bible-thumpers and their yolk have reared their familiar faces once again to insult the players and I'm merely calling their bluff.
Furthermore, trying to point out the so call "senseless treadmill" of grinding gear, which seems to be the thrust of your failed attempt to label a flaw of the game, is a poor one at best. Gear rewards have always been one of the main reasons players continue to play MMOs. You get better gear to kill harder mobs and explore deeper into more dangerous parts of the game. Been this way for a long time and to merely brush this off as some type of "carrot-on-a-stick" theory cooked up by the devs at Blizzard it out right ludicrous.
If you and the reast of these so called "enlighteners" cannot see that players are "enjoying" their stay in Azeroth and bringing more and more friends and family aboard, then I, nor any of the rest of the players here that happen to enjoy this game, can help you any further. And all there is left for us to do is call out foul when we see it. Some of us are a little more tactful than others....call us a diverse group if you will, but don't call us all the same thing.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
For your information I posted my due diligence about my views on topic further up in the thread, now if you're to "busy" to read through them all to find it, then that's on you. Do not wave your half-hearted attempts to use quips to try to elevate your position on the subject at hand. The bible-thumpers and their yolk have reared their familiar faces once again to insult the players and I'm merely calling their bluff.
Spare me you obscure metaphors and be a little more concise with your ramblings, would you please? Why; exactly should I be obligated, or even need to read this entire thread of senseless garbage that only restates what has been stated countless times?
Furthermore, trying to point out the so call "senseless treadmill" of grinding gear, which seems to be the thrust of your failed attempt to label a flaw of the game, is a poor one at best. Gear rewards have always been one of the main reasons players continue to play MMOs. You get better gear to kill harder mobs and explore deeper into more dangerous parts of the game. Been this way for a long time and to merely brush this off as some type of "carrot-on-a-stick" theory cooked up by the devs at Blizzard it out right ludicrous.
So? Nothing changes? I, as well as anyone who's been around for even a menial amount of time is well aware of this. It was never my intention to label WoW as the only offender. Your attempts are misdirection are admirable, but transparent. Things need to change in the genre. The low standards need to go, and the gear treadmill needs to be rethought... Or are you suggesting that developers try not to innovate at all? When you have players who's only goal in the game is to attain gear, well the purpose of the game becomes lost. Do you think people still enjoy playing Alterac Valley, or any of the other painfully aging battlegrounds? You really think this isn't a flaw? People do it so that they can remain competitive in pvp. Instead of cutting out the fat, IE: the things players don't want to do, developers artificially enhance the life of the content by adding rep grinds and the like. WAR, WoW, AoC... The longer things stay this way, the more people begin to realize how ridiculous it is.
If you and the reast of these so called "enlighteners" cannot see that players are "enjoying" their stay in Azeroth and bringing more and more friends and family aboard, then I, nor any of the rest of the players here that happen to enjoy this game, can help you any further. And all there is left for us to do is call out foul when we see it. Some of us are a little more tactful than others....call us a diverse group if you will, but don't call us all the same thing. "You" are a "very" "smart" "individual" Lawl.
Honestly, I can't speak for the *REST* of my kind, but I'm no attacking the players for enjoying themselves. I'm attacking the cross eye little nitwits who feel the need to jump out of their chairs to violently defend their game, as if to convince themselves that their game is superior and that they're not wasting their time. It's really pitiful, and it's all over the place. If you like running content with no real replay value other than to Attain new baubles, great. The rest of us don't have to agree with you. So give it a rest.
Progression is an inevitable part of any RPG, but that should not be all there is to it.
For your information I posted my due diligence about my views on topic further up in the thread, now if you're to "busy" to read through them all to find it, then that's on you. Do not wave your half-hearted attempts to use quips to try to elevate your position on the subject at hand. The bible-thumpers and their yolk have reared their familiar faces once again to insult the players and I'm merely calling their bluff.
Spare me you obscure metaphors and be a little more concise with your ramblings, would you please? Why; exactly should I be obligated, or even need to read this entire thread of senseless garbage that only restates what has been stated countless times?
Wow but you came across this thread...read the last few post and decided to chime in and add your ego induced bloated opinion for what....cheap thrills? Interesting. Next time you "decide" to waste your precious time by posting in a thread that you don't even bother to read......pick the next thread. And save the I have a right to post spill which I KNOW is coming next.....
Furthermore, trying to point out the so call "senseless treadmill" of grinding gear, which seems to be the thrust of your failed attempt to label a flaw of the game, is a poor one at best. Gear rewards have always been one of the main reasons players continue to play MMOs. You get better gear to kill harder mobs and explore deeper into more dangerous parts of the game. Been this way for a long time and to merely brush this off as some type of "carrot-on-a-stick" theory cooked up by the devs at Blizzard it out right ludicrous.
So? Nothing changes? I, as well as anyone who's been around for even a menial amount of time is well aware of this. It was never my intention to label WoW as the only offender. Your attempts are misdirection are admirable, but transparent. Things need to change in the genre. The low standards need to go, and the gear treadmill needs to be rethought... Or are you suggesting that developers try not to innovate at all? When you have players who's only goal in the game is to attain gear, well the purpose of the game becomes lost. Do you think people still enjoy playing Alterac Valley, or any of the other painfully aging battlegrounds? You really think this isn't a flaw? People do it so that they can remain competitive in pvp. Instead of cutting out the fat, IE: the things players don't want to do, developers artificially enhance the life of the content by adding rep grinds and the like. WAR, WoW, AoC... The longer things stay this way, the more people begin to realize how ridiculous it is. Players will play a game for whatever reason they wish and if a game gives them that satisfaction then who are you to tell them they are doing the wrong thing? More and more your post seem to uncover you as a half informed, self righteous blowhorn. I know players that still play every battleground because they run the BG daily, which changes EVERYDAY. And if they enjoy it or not is not for either of us to say. But at least they are not abandoned completely. All the things you label as things players don't want is your ego clouding your misguided opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you and the rest of these so called "enlighteners" cannot see that players are "enjoying" their stay in Azeroth and bringing more and more friends and family aboard, then I, nor any of the rest of the players here that happen to enjoy this game, can help you any further. And all there is left for us to do is call out foul when we see it. Some of us are a little more tactful than others....call us a diverse group if you will, but don't call us all the same thing. "You" are a "very" "smart" "individual" Lawl.
Honestly, I can't speak for the *REST* of my kind, but I'm no attacking the players for enjoying themselves. I'm attacking the cross eye little nitwits who feel the need to jump out of their chairs to violently defend their game, as if to convince themselves that their game is superior and that they're not wasting their time. It's really pitiful, and it's all over the place. If you like running content with no real replay value other than to Attain new baubles, great. The rest of us don't have to agree with you. So give it a rest.
Progression is an inevitable part of any RPG, but that should not be all there is to it.
Ok....ok....ok...wait...wait...let me get this straight now.....You come into a WoW forum and CLEARLY admit that you are attacking "nitwits" who are playing said game and STILL have the gall to say you're not attacking players that enjoy the game they play....LOL are you serious? Or you don't consider "nitwits" players? And if I'm only convincing MYSELF that I think the game is superior and I'm not wasting my time....then wait....LOL...I should expect to be attacked!?!? Oh god please.......the madness MUST end here....you sir are a bonified fool....please read both of my quotes....Left side under my avatar and under my sig then please move along.......rich!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Wow but you came across this thread...read the last few post and decided to chime in and add your ego induced bloated opinion for what....cheap thrills? Interesting. Next time you "decide" to waste your precious time by posting in a thread that you don't even bother to read......pick the next thread. And save the I have a right to post spill which I KNOW is coming next.....
I'd be more inclined to read it if it wasn't the same bunch of garbage that's been regurgitated for the past ten years. The post that set off this delightful E-FIGHT just perpetuated this fact. So there, do I need to repeat myself for a third time or do you understand yet?
Players will play a game for whatever reason they wish and if a game gives them that satisfaction then who are you to tell them they are doing the wrong thing? More and more your post seem to uncover you as a half informed, self righteous blowhorn. I know players that still play every battleground because they run the BG daily, which changes EVERYDAY. And if they enjoy it or not is not for either of us to say. But at least they are not abandoned completely. All the things you label as things players don't want is your ego clouding your misguided opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. This is fantastic, you contradict yourself... All conveniently in one passage. They have a right to my opinion, but I don't, so my opinion is called "ignorant" despite the fact that the content is years old, people complain about having to run it chronically, and also remark about how poor PVP in the game is. Your logic is flawless. Half informed? Just what about what I've said is untrue? The general opinion on battlegrounds? Alright, refute this with proof. Oh ok, you don't have any. Do you know why the BGs are run? Incentive. Rewards, and yes; the daily. They give money, they give honor, and if you want to compete; you need honor. What do you need honor for? To get more honor. What do you need Arena gear for? To do more Arena, hence the term * TREADMILL *. Do you know what I treadmill is? Let me make sure you know what a treadmill is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadmill Are you done? Outstanding. BUT HAY, MAYBE PEOPLE DO ENJOY GRINDING SEA LIONS FOR A MONTH TO GET A NEW TRINKET, RITE?
Ok....ok....ok...wait...wait...let me get this straight now.....You come into a WoW forum and CLEARLY admit that you are attacking "nitwits" who are playing said game and STILL have the gall to say you're not attacking players that enjoy the game they play....LOL are you serious? Or you don't consider "nitwits" players? And if I'm only convincing MYSELF that I think the game is superior and I'm not wasting my time....then wait....LOL...I should expect to be attacked!?!? Oh god please.......the madness MUST end here....you sir are a bonified fool....please read both of my quotes....Left side under my avatar and under my sig then please move along.......rich! Get some sleep. You are either deprived or you're highly stupid. Do you know whom I was referring to? You'd know if you'd just read. I was referring to frothing defenders of the game. In short, what you're doing right now. The people who just enjoy the game are doing just that. They aren't concerned about SOMEONE WHO HAS BLIGHTED THE NAME OF WOW. I have not defined players of WoW has kiddies or morons, again; read over my initial post. You will find nothing inflammatory there directed at the playerbase, only it's design. Seriously; fucking read.
Well wow to me is starting to get really boring and stupid.
The newest patch they released 1000G To Dual Talent. This function should be in the game from day one of starting wow, not an additional option. It just contributes to more gold buyers.
Fire mages sucking in pvp, spell cast times way too long, Arcane tree, and frost tree second, total domination in pvp aspects. Of course this is assuming your not playing a fire mage, where all your team mates guard you for 5 seconds while you cast a pyroblast and stuff.
Wow needs a lot of major changes, because believe it or not blizzard is starting to slack off, add more features that take more grind, contribute more to gold sellers and crap.
The newest patch they released 1000G To Dual Talent. This function should be in the game from day one of starting wow, not an additional option. It just contributes to more gold buyers. Fire mages sucking in pvp, spell cast times way too long, Arcane tree, and frost tree second, total domination in pvp aspects. Of course this is assuming your not playing a fire mage, where all your team mates guard you for 5 seconds while you cast a pyroblast and stuff. Wow needs a lot of major changes, because believe it or not blizzard is starting to slack off, add more features that take more grind, contribute more to gold sellers and crap.
The 1000g fee is a gold sink, because the genius devs decided to give everyone giant piles of money.
As for everything else, YOUR WRONG I HATE U UR GAY WOW 11MILLION IOPGHeaogl;HOLG:UHJBL:Ghb;goiweujg
How many games (even on consoles) you know that keeps SELLING after ... 4.5 years ? Week of March 22 - 29, 2009*
TITLE - PUBLISHER - AVERAGE PRICE
1) World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King - Activision Blizzard - $33
2) Empire: Total War - Sega - $33
3) The Sims 2 Double Deluxe - Electronic Arts - $20
4) World of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Activision Blizzard - $33
5) Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - THQ - $47
6) Spore - Electronic Arts - $47
7) Mystery Case Files: Return to Ravenhearst - Activision Blizzard - $19
8) World of Warcraft - Activision Blizzard - $20
9) The Sims 2 Apartment Life - Electronic Arts - $20
10) Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway - Ubisoft - $13 Do you see Bioshock? Do you see Call of Duty 5? Do you see FAll out 3? The above three games were recently launched. Every other video game lasts about 6 months (at the most). And add this top 10 in on online games being played in our westeren world. www.xfire.com A sample of ... 200.000 on line PC players (and sampled 24/hours on 24 Hours). --- ---> Would YOU play 15 Euros a month just to listen to Brittney Spears ::)))) ---- That's the difference.
You got one kind of answer right there... The Sims 2 which was launched in September 2004.
Also they have sold quite a lot of expansions and haven't had to run same server structure.
"As of April 2008, The Sims 2 website celebrated 100 million copies of The Sims series sold.[9]"
So sure way to make money?
1. Find lowest common divivisor, between WoW and Sims.
Comments
Whose saying that World of Warcraft is the best game ever?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm pretty sure that the employees and share holders are...
I'm not sure in a "for profit" business what other opinion matters?
I'm pretty sure that the employees and share holders are...
I'm not sure in a "for profit" business what other opinion matters?
So the "Jaguar" is the best beverage ever? And Hannah Montana is the best... Whatever the hell she is?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
[Mod Edit]
Ok figures means nothing, when they do not support your arguement. 12 millions subs means nothing to you. But you quoted what? 30 people you know that proves WoW players are cheap and cannot afford to pay for better computers. Now figures means something b/c they support your argument. Come on, make up your mind, is 30 a stronger support to an argument than 12 million? The 30 you know represents the entire 12 million? I casually browsed the web and found more than 30 persons posting online seeking ways to configure high level display cards or vista, to play WoW, now we have more than 30 people willing to buy good hardware to play WoW. Does that defeats your argument?
You have to remind us that WoW has family appeal? Thank you for the big reminder. How about I tell you that WoW has a wider social appeal than just a family. My family members play it, even after we no longer live together. Many friends and colleagues play it. So what? That proves WoW is weak? is simple to play? appeals to a wider spectrum of people? How is that a weakness?
You want a game in which you are tortured, in which you need to run around for an hour to find a mob, or wait spam for an hour to form a group, to have to find the right group just to head out of town? Ok, good for you. I wonder why people find improvements in household appliances "good", but simplication of UI and game mechanisms "dumb down". If you do not want to be dumbed down, do not use washing machine, vacuum machine nor even cooker. Better still grow your own wheat and make your own bread. Milk your own cow and never visit a grocery. Throw money out of the window and do every chore yourself.
WoW cuts out the stupid time sinks in EQ, the competitor they face when they started some 4 years ago. They replace the stupid timesinks with another form of timesink, that is more fun. Lets use EQ in its hey days (before WoW) as an illustration. If you want to use another game, do it yourself.
(1) In EQ you waste time going to the instance. Yeah no kidding, we wipe a lot just reaching the zone in. Which is not fun. In WoW you just need 2 persons to reach the summoning stone, where as in EQ you have to wait for all raid members to make his way there. In WoW you can summon people directly into the instance (warlocks) to replace lost members, in EQ you have to fight back all the way to zone in to pick up the new member. How many times we wipe trying to get out to pick up replacement member, then having to fight in nake to get our corpse or fight nake to zone in and have someone go to get enough coffins to summon the corpses? I find more fun actually doing the instance, than spending the same amount of time trying to set up for the instance.
(2) In EQ you have to walk, and ridiculous walking time, to get from one place to another. That leads to many of us loggin alts in different instances, and using only the alt for that instance. Travelling in EQ is not funny nor friendly. WoW provides flightpaths, flying mounts. That saves a lot of troubles. I would say CoX is most friendly in terms of mobility, and superjump is outright fun. Do I want to spent time walking from place to place or have me forced to play only this alt for this instance? No, I prefer the freedom in WoW, in which I pool all my alts in dalaran, and select the alt I prefer to play today.
(3) EQ makes recovery from wipes a pain. Well there are times when wipes are caused by accidents. Server spike have killed lots of raids. Why should we waste hours trying to recover, b/c the server spikes? Why should we lose a level after some painful raid wipes, and have to go back to pve to recover the level in order to resume raiding, cos lvl 60 give us some spells or skill vital to raids, and droppin down to lvl 59 means bye bye to raiding? WoW makes death a minor issue, so we can wipe laugh and try again. Not everyone online have 12 hours per session, and easy recovery from wipes makes it possible to get something done in 2 or 3 hours, with simple solution to replacing members and keeping the raid going on for 4-6 hours. Its not unknown that the starting group replaces half its members by the time the raid comes to an end. Can you do that in EQ?
(4) WoW keeps enhancing its interace, I am not talking about the mods. The little details makes life very comfortable in raids. You know whether your raid member is in range to your heals, you know who has debuffs. You have options to display what, say hp bars of mobs on top of the mobs. You have so much room to configurate, with different setting for each alt. You got fancy little details that just makes life easy. I do not see how this is dumb down. Some mods do make the game a bit too easy, and you have the option not to use it. I do not. But the efforts of WoW in creating a first class "configurable" UI, is a classic example of customer service. I am given options, which allows me to set up the difficulty level I want. If you want challenge, you can remove all setting and play in the old EQ way, find your member one by one my hand and heal with no debuffing displayed. You can do it.
(5) WoW makes a game in which there are so many different things to do. Much more than EQ. Whether you like it or not is your issue. There are people who likes some of each. That is the key to WoW's success, different people, in different mood, could still find something to do in WoW. In EQ, after reaching max level, you will be waiing for a group to form up to raid. In WoW there are various raids to choose from, and you can pvp while waiting for a raid to form, or craft or harvest or do dailies (and various kinds of them). Yes daily is repetitive, but still more fun than just sitting at zone in waiting for the raid to form.
Not that WoW is without weakness. But to use a sweeping statement to dismiss WoW, like you did, is simply unconvincing.
You know whats funny... Every single point you made for WoW is the reason I dislike WoW... Everything is handed to you without any effort. That makes for a very boring game.
In EQ1 you felt like you earned everything you got and every level you got.
WoW is on easy mode, with all the mods and the quests. EQ1 made you think while playing, WoW any moron can play and does play by the way.
EQ1 had the best community I ever been a part of. In WoW was one of the worst communities. I only talked to my guild members because the rest of the people were morons.
In EQ1 I used to join PuGs all the time (pick up groups), in WoW I would never ever think of joining a PuG.
I loved how death ment bad things in EQ1 as it should, it should make you fear dieing and do everything in you power not to die, in WoW death is a way to travel because it means nothing.
You can replace memebers of your raid in EQ1 without problems, we used to do it all the time.
Travel? You cannot be bothered to travel from location to location? Instead you want everything made easy, your the type of player that has ruined what MMOs should be. Your the type of player that was all the rewards without putting forth any effort, you are part of the "I WANT IT NOW" crowd that is ruining everything today (in RL as well) least of which is my MMO experience.
I am sorry but WoW is a solid game but it is geared toward people that want everything now, without any effort or thinking. WoW is successful because people today are lazy and want someone else to do the work and they sit back and get the rewards. WoW is fast food and EQ1 is fine dinning.
Sooner or Later
Woe to the Known-Believers of WoW .
Frankly, I think WoW's initial success was due to advertising and polish, but since then it's continued success is due to lack of competition, incredibly high accessability, and simply because it's popular so everyone plays it, even if it isn't the best product on the market. Like Itunes, or something along those lines.
There is NOTHING wrong with a well made gear thread mill. That is the main stay of hack-n-slash games (just look at Diablo 1 & 2).
It is fun. Gaining power and killing stuff.
Good question. I don't know why people would pay for a game that they aren't playing unless they did a year long sub and stopped after a few months. That's why I either do monthly of three month subs.
uhmm you missed the point.
I have an account.
its turned off cause I reached 80 went yawn.
so they can claim account numbers but what is the active number? IE how many are subbing today.
played:WoW and Eve off and on 5 years
Tried:CoH/V, PoTBS, War, TR, STO, FE
TOR is likely to rock
Good question. I don't know why people would pay for a game that they aren't playing unless they did a year long sub and stopped after a few months. That's why I either do monthly of three month subs.
uhmm you missed the point.
I have an account.
its turned off cause I reached 80 went yawn.
so they can claim account numbers but what is the active number? IE how many are subbing today.
Ummmmm....Then you aren't being counted.
"World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules. "
http://eu.blizzard.com/en/press/081223.html
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
i ve enjoyed wow on and off for about 4 years now . it is as much a social phenomina as a game . its strength in part is that it is a vast virtual chat room . but it would be foolish to think such numbers of subscirbers can be maintained . warcraft will face a decline at some point . the reason it has such a massive market share are as much to other games weaknesses as warcrafts strengths . we ve seen one high profile game after another fail to make any real impact . it only will take one decent mmo to be released that makes warcraft look dated and warcraft will see an exodus . its not a question of if that happens but when . i personally think they ll be number 1 for a few years to come .
With the amount of embarassingly bad MMOs that keep coming out trying to compete with WoW, I really don't know anymore.
WoW was good until bc came out and ruined it imo. The raids were harder before bc and u actually had to work for your gear now everybody can get what i get wihtout even trying. The game is to easy now. I ran strat over 100 times for my blue set pants and at the time they were the best pants in the game. This is for 15 year olds and under and teh people that can't afford a real computer. Lets not forget the 10 million of those subscribers are asians and farmers making a living off lazy americans.
Blizzard knows how to advertise and WoW rns good on almost any PC. How many people bought the game after they saw it on South Park? I've played a lot of mmorpgs and WoW is nothing new. I know people that have never heard of an mmo that play WoW just because its the only one they have ever heard of thanks to brillant advertising. I think if anyone is to get an award for this is should be Blizzards marketing department.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
I actually just resubed for WoW today after roughly 9 months of not playing it. When I left the game I quit because of poor pvp, and was just getting bored. I was also and still do argue against WoW being the most amazing mmo ever made, but I also still recognize the fun moments that it can provide. It's not perfect but not too many things in this world are.
So now I will be returning to WoW to play it with my gf who has never tried it before, and I am looking forward to sharing the game and exploring t with her. She has also warned me many time now that she will probably die many times due to curiosity and wandering where she shouldn't be. I think I'll stay busy keeping her alive. Even though I disliked WoW ever since I left I still find myself looking forward to playing it, and vicariously experiencing the game as a novel experience through her.
Congratulations blizzard, you've succeeded... In a market of comically inept competition.
I see the naysayers and ego-hounds are still at it trying to debunk the game and said players of that game by insulting their age,skill, attention span and taste. I guess trying to stop them from spewing their bile is like trying to get a them to find a game that will keep them so happy, they won't post hate in here anymore......well that ain't gonna happen...post away fellas!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Thank you Ramon for that delightfully irrelevant commentary. Looking at your post, isn't your rhetoric just the same garbage but from a different angle? I digress...
Well all know why the game is dominating, and despite Blizzard's sometimes... bewildering design choices, they have been a great success. I think it's about time for the landscape to change again. Just like how WoW changed the landscape. Problem is, everyone looks at WoW and attempts to make a half hearted copy with an eight of the game's current content and about a quarter of it's replayability. (And WoW doesnt have a whole lot to begin with, if you discard the gear treadmill!)
The one who dethrones this game will be the first who successfuly changes the MMORPG landscape again.
A good start would be realizing that Gear does not equate to gameplay / content / replay value. All it does is create a new goal for players to senselessly chase for. However meager the upgrade, if you dangle a slightly new item in front of players; they will grind tirelessly to attain in this game, even if it requires them to run a stale, 3 year old map 47 times. (In in AV's case, AFK macro)
For your information I posted my due diligence about my views on topic further up in the thread, now if you're to "busy" to read through them all to find it, then that's on you. Do not wave your half-hearted attempts to use quips to try to elevate your position on the subject at hand. The bible-thumpers and their yolk have reared their familiar faces once again to insult the players and I'm merely calling their bluff.
Furthermore, trying to point out the so call "senseless treadmill" of grinding gear, which seems to be the thrust of your failed attempt to label a flaw of the game, is a poor one at best. Gear rewards have always been one of the main reasons players continue to play MMOs. You get better gear to kill harder mobs and explore deeper into more dangerous parts of the game. Been this way for a long time and to merely brush this off as some type of "carrot-on-a-stick" theory cooked up by the devs at Blizzard it out right ludicrous.
If you and the reast of these so called "enlighteners" cannot see that players are "enjoying" their stay in Azeroth and bringing more and more friends and family aboard, then I, nor any of the rest of the players here that happen to enjoy this game, can help you any further. And all there is left for us to do is call out foul when we see it. Some of us are a little more tactful than others....call us a diverse group if you will, but don't call us all the same thing.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well wow to me is starting to get really boring and stupid.
The newest patch they released 1000G To Dual Talent. This function should be in the game from day one of starting wow, not an additional option. It just contributes to more gold buyers.
Fire mages sucking in pvp, spell cast times way too long, Arcane tree, and frost tree second, total domination in pvp aspects. Of course this is assuming your not playing a fire mage, where all your team mates guard you for 5 seconds while you cast a pyroblast and stuff.
Wow needs a lot of major changes, because believe it or not blizzard is starting to slack off, add more features that take more grind, contribute more to gold sellers and crap.
The 1000g fee is a gold sink, because the genius devs decided to give everyone giant piles of money.
As for everything else, YOUR WRONG I HATE U UR GAY WOW 11MILLION IOPGHeaogl;HOLG:UHJBL:Ghb;goiweujg
You got one kind of answer right there... The Sims 2 which was launched in September 2004.
Also they have sold quite a lot of expansions and haven't had to run same server structure.
"As of April 2008, The Sims 2 website celebrated 100 million copies of The Sims series sold.[9]"
So sure way to make money?
1. Find lowest common divivisor, between WoW and Sims.
2. Apply it to new game.
3. ?????
4. Profit!
And yes, I'm comparing WoW with Sims.
*Goes to hide, and waits for bashing*
Well... 4 1/2 Years later and still going Strong...
hmmm
Just the Name of the Thread Annoys Me Honostly Simply Because
So many Great Guilds of Wow you Probley Dont Even know. Quit...
Like Serenity, Defiant, And Lethal Intentions All Quit
Because they hated Were the Company Was Going Most of them Still claim Pre-Bc Was the best....
And I have to Agree..
My Problem With Wow is That It attractes A Much Younger Audience Then Say Everquest.
And Thats Why I Think It's "4 1/2 Years later and still going Strong"