Wow but you came across this thread...read the last few post and decided to chime in and add your ego induced bloated opinion for what....cheap thrills? Interesting. Next time you "decide" to waste your precious time by posting in a thread that you don't even bother to read......pick the next thread. And save the I have a right to post spill which I KNOW is coming next.....
I'd be more inclined to read it if it wasn't the same bunch of garbage that's been regurgitated for the past ten years. The post that set off this delightful E-FIGHT just perpetuated this fact. So there, do I need to repeat myself for a third time or do you understand yet?
Players will play a game for whatever reason they wish and if a game gives them that satisfaction then who are you to tell them they are doing the wrong thing? More and more your post seem to uncover you as a half informed, self righteous blowhorn. I know players that still play every battleground because they run the BG daily, which changes EVERYDAY. And if they enjoy it or not is not for either of us to say. But at least they are not abandoned completely. All the things you label as things players don't want is your ego clouding your misguided opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. This is fantastic, you contradict yourself... All conveniently in one passage. They have a right to my opinion, but I don't, so my opinion is called "ignorant" despite the fact that the content is years old, people complain about having to run it chronically, and also remark about how poor PVP in the game is. Your logic is flawless. Half informed? Just what about what I've said is untrue? The general opinion on battlegrounds? Alright, refute this with proof. Oh ok, you don't have any. Do you know why the BGs are run? Incentive. Rewards, and yes; the daily. They give money, they give honor, and if you want to compete; you need honor. What do you need honor for? To get more honor. What do you need Arena gear for? To do more Arena, hence the term * TREADMILL *. Do you know what I treadmill is? Let me make sure you know what a treadmill is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadmill Are you done? Outstanding. BUT HAY, MAYBE PEOPLE DO ENJOY GRINDING SEA LIONS FOR A MONTH TO GET A NEW TRINKET, RITE?
Ok....ok....ok...wait...wait...let me get this straight now.....You come into a WoW forum and CLEARLY admit that you are attacking "nitwits" who are playing said game and STILL have the gall to say you're not attacking players that enjoy the game they play....LOL are you serious? Or you don't consider "nitwits" players? And if I'm only convincing MYSELF that I think the game is superior and I'm not wasting my time....then wait....LOL...I should expect to be attacked!?!? Oh god please.......the madness MUST end here....you sir are a bonified fool....please read both of my quotes....Left side under my avatar and under my sig then please move along.......rich! Get some sleep. You are either deprived or you're highly stupid. Do you know whom I was referring to? You'd know if you'd just read. I was referring to frothing defenders of the game. In short, what you're doing right now. The people who just enjoy the game are doing just that. They aren't concerned about SOMEONE WHO HAS BLIGHTED THE NAME OF WOW. I have not defined players of WoW has kiddies or morons, again; read over my initial post. You will find nothing inflammatory there directed at the playerbase, only it's design. Seriously; fucking read.
You defined them as nitwits like I stated (Well at least according to you, players that defend WoW are). When did I ever say anything even REMOTELY close to defending WoW? I'm just pointing out bothersome posters that seem to think their tiresome opinions about what they feel is wrong with WoW, carries the same weight for the people that enjoy the game....it does not. You call it a senseless treadmill, some people that play do not see it that way. Some people may enjoy the sense of enjoyment in getting a new set piece to their armor. You say battlegrounds are stale, I say they are battlegrounds to fight in period. Whether they are the old ones or the new ones it does not matter. The players you fight against in them make them enjoyable to some people.
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Look you're putting too much thought into this.....point is you are looking to bait what you believe to be frothing defenders of a tired ass game into a flamewar. I dunno maybe to get a feeling like you've accomplished something here. I will go back to playing WoW and you will continue to enjoy whatever game you play....but by the sound of it, that would mean nothing since the way you described WoW goes for 100% of the MMos out there to begin with.
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But go on, continue your quest to preach about what the industry needs to do to cater to you in a WoW forum......I mean damn..You really are like a bible-thumper......knocking on someone else's door and trying to get them to see your truths.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You defined them as nitwits like I stated (Well at least according to you, players that defend WoW are). When did I ever say anything even REMOTELY close to defending WoW? I'm just pointing out bothersome posters that seem to think their tiresome opinions about what they feel is wrong with WoW, carries the same weight for the people that enjoy the game....it does not. You call it a senseless treadmill, some people that play do not see it that way. Some people may enjoy the sense of enjoyment in getting a new set piece to their armor. You say battlegrounds are stale, I say they are battlegrounds to fight in period. Whether they are the old ones or the new ones it does not matter. The players you fight against in them make them enjoyable to some people. ---------------------------------------- Look you're putting too much thought into this.....point is you are looking to bait what you believe to be frothing defenders of a tired ass game into a flamewar. I dunno maybe to get a feeling like you've accomplished something here. I will go back to playing WoW and you will continue to enjoy whatever game you play....but by the sound of it, that would mean nothing since the way you described WoW goes for 100% of the MMos out there to begin with. ---------------------------------------- But go on, continue your quest to preach about what the industry needs to do to cater to you in a WoW forum......I mean damn..You really are like a bible-thumper......knocking on someone else's door and trying to get them to see your truths.
Look, you can side step and misdirect all you like, the fact remains that the pvp content is years old, and is being added at a awful and slow pace, about one per expansion. Items are being added at a tremendous pace, but the content isn't for pvpers. That is a FACT.
"THEY MIGHT ENJOY IT" doesn't negate the fact that:
1 - People are still doing the same battlegrounds for years ago in order to attain honor for new gear.
2 - People AFK in battlegrounds.
Afking, does that sound like the behavoir of people who are enjoying themselves, or does that dangle the dubious line of opinion? Hey, maybe afk macroing is a new type of game that people immensely enjoy. Who are we to judge the sound design of that?
A bible thumper... That's funny. What exactly is it that you've been doing in this thread, or rather, directing at me?
I'm not here to change opinions, I'm merely here to state mine. Your bile is just as the same as the tired "WOW ISH 4 KIDS" bile. Same hyperbolic garbage, different angle.
Personally, I used to love this game. Then BC rolled around, gave everyone a pile of cash, made raids ridiculously boring and long (BWL was IMO the peak of raiding fun, bosses, few trash, some innovation), decided to add a PVP component the game wasn't initially built for (Arena), and looked to kill the entire game world, opting rather to cram players into instances.
I quit around season 3. I had my full arena set and had nothing to do. I had my epic engineering plane, my veteran friends had left, Raiding was boring, and I found myself running Magisters Terrace every day in order to get a trinket. I was logging on less and less, the game world desolate. Both horde and alliance crowding battle and arena masters waiting in line, or sitting in an instanced dungeon for that next big upgrade.
I admit, I was tempted to try the expansion. I remember how exciting early BC was, with all of the players leveling, exploring and fighting one another; but I opted to wait, and see what happened in a few months.
Lo and behold; the newness factor wears off. The content was finished in days ; the new PVP battleground was awful, Arena was still a primary focus, Wintergrasp was lagged to the point of unplayable, and the wide praise of the playerbase and some of the newer friends that I have still playing turned into boredom. There may be vehicles, there may be Death Knights, and the graphics look a little better but... Nothing's changed, and people continue to play because "there's nothing better". (It doesnt occur to some people that you can just... NOT play something you complain about on the forums constantly.)
As I risk being long winded here, I'll close by reiterating that it will take innovation to dethrone WoW... Well, no. I think I'm wrong.
The combined effort of a WoW clone called Aion and Wizards 101 will probably do the trick in about 6 months or so. It wont DIE, but It won't be as huge as it is now, I think.
"people will not stay in a poor game for as long as WOW subscribers have." sure they will, if they don't know any better. Also it's a well known fact that one of the main reason SOME OF WoW's players return after quitting is because the don't want to spend the time to get back to the top.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
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Ok figures means nothing, when they do not support your arguement. 12 millions subs means nothing to you. But you quoted what? 30 people you know that proves WoW players are cheap and cannot afford to pay for better computers. Now figures means something b/c they support your argument. Come on, make up your mind, is 30 a stronger support to an argument than 12 million? The 30 you know represents the entire 12 million? I casually browsed the web and found more than 30 persons posting online seeking ways to configure high level display cards or vista, to play WoW, now we have more than 30 people willing to buy good hardware to play WoW. Does that defeats your argument?
You have to remind us that WoW has family appeal? Thank you for the big reminder. How about I tell you that WoW has a wider social appeal than just a family. My family members play it, even after we no longer live together. Many friends and colleagues play it. So what? That proves WoW is weak? is simple to play? appeals to a wider spectrum of people? How is that a weakness?
You want a game in which you are tortured, in which you need to run around for an hour to find a mob, or wait spam for an hour to form a group, to have to find the right group just to head out of town? Ok, good for you. I wonder why people find improvements in household appliances "good", but simplication of UI and game mechanisms "dumb down". If you do not want to be dumbed down, do not use washing machine, vacuum machine nor even cooker. Better still grow your own wheat and make your own bread. Milk your own cow and never visit a grocery. Throw money out of the window and do every chore yourself.
WoW cuts out the stupid time sinks in EQ, the competitor they face when they started some 4 years ago. They replace the stupid timesinks with another form of timesink, that is more fun. Lets use EQ in its hey days (before WoW) as an illustration. If you want to use another game, do it yourself.
(1) In EQ you waste time going to the instance. Yeah no kidding, we wipe a lot just reaching the zone in. Which is not fun. In WoW you just need 2 persons to reach the summoning stone, where as in EQ you have to wait for all raid members to make his way there. In WoW you can summon people directly into the instance (warlocks) to replace lost members, in EQ you have to fight back all the way to zone in to pick up the new member. How many times we wipe trying to get out to pick up replacement member, then having to fight in nake to get our corpse or fight nake to zone in and have someone go to get enough coffins to summon the corpses? I find more fun actually doing the instance, than spending the same amount of time trying to set up for the instance.
(2) In EQ you have to walk, and ridiculous walking time, to get from one place to another. That leads to many of us loggin alts in different instances, and using only the alt for that instance. Travelling in EQ is not funny nor friendly. WoW provides flightpaths, flying mounts. That saves a lot of troubles. I would say CoX is most friendly in terms of mobility, and superjump is outright fun. Do I want to spent time walking from place to place or have me forced to play only this alt for this instance? No, I prefer the freedom in WoW, in which I pool all my alts in dalaran, and select the alt I prefer to play today.
(3) EQ makes recovery from wipes a pain. Well there are times when wipes are caused by accidents. Server spike have killed lots of raids. Why should we waste hours trying to recover, b/c the server spikes? Why should we lose a level after some painful raid wipes, and have to go back to pve to recover the level in order to resume raiding, cos lvl 60 give us some spells or skill vital to raids, and droppin down to lvl 59 means bye bye to raiding? WoW makes death a minor issue, so we can wipe laugh and try again. Not everyone online have 12 hours per session, and easy recovery from wipes makes it possible to get something done in 2 or 3 hours, with simple solution to replacing members and keeping the raid going on for 4-6 hours. Its not unknown that the starting group replaces half its members by the time the raid comes to an end. Can you do that in EQ?
(4) WoW keeps enhancing its interace, I am not talking about the mods. The little details makes life very comfortable in raids. You know whether your raid member is in range to your heals, you know who has debuffs. You have options to display what, say hp bars of mobs on top of the mobs. You have so much room to configurate, with different setting for each alt. You got fancy little details that just makes life easy. I do not see how this is dumb down. Some mods do make the game a bit too easy, and you have the option not to use it. I do not. But the efforts of WoW in creating a first class "configurable" UI, is a classic example of customer service. I am given options, which allows me to set up the difficulty level I want. If you want challenge, you can remove all setting and play in the old EQ way, find your member one by one my hand and heal with no debuffing displayed. You can do it.
(5) WoW makes a game in which there are so many different things to do. Much more than EQ. Whether you like it or not is your issue. There are people who likes some of each. That is the key to WoW's success, different people, in different mood, could still find something to do in WoW. In EQ, after reaching max level, you will be waiing for a group to form up to raid. In WoW there are various raids to choose from, and you can pvp while waiting for a raid to form, or craft or harvest or do dailies (and various kinds of them). Yes daily is repetitive, but still more fun than just sitting at zone in waiting for the raid to form.
Not that WoW is without weakness. But to use a sweeping statement to dismiss WoW, like you did, is simply unconvincing.
You know whats funny... Every single point you made for WoW is the reason I dislike WoW... Everything is handed to you without any effort. That makes for a very boring game.
In EQ1 you felt like you earned everything you got and every level you got.
WoW is on easy mode, with all the mods and the quests. EQ1 made you think while playing, WoW any moron can play and does play by the way.
EQ1 had the best community I ever been a part of. In WoW was one of the worst communities. I only talked to my guild members because the rest of the people were morons.
In EQ1 I used to join PuGs all the time (pick up groups), in WoW I would never ever think of joining a PuG.
I loved how death ment bad things in EQ1 as it should, it should make you fear dieing and do everything in you power not to die, in WoW death is a way to travel because it means nothing.
You can replace memebers of your raid in EQ1 without problems, we used to do it all the time.
Travel? You cannot be bothered to travel from location to location? Instead you want everything made easy, your the type of player that has ruined what MMOs should be. Your the type of player that was all the rewards without putting forth any effort, you are part of the "I WANT IT NOW" crowd that is ruining everything today (in RL as well) least of which is my MMO experience.
I am sorry but WoW is a solid game but it is geared toward people that want everything now, without any effort or thinking. WoW is successful because people today are lazy and want someone else to do the work and they sit back and get the rewards. WoW is fast food and EQ1 is fine dinning.
No worries, fact is, many people would agree with you. When I was 10 years younger I agree with you.
I started serious MMO with EQ1. My first is an ogre. I walked out, in that damn dark city, tried to talk to an npc. I targeted him, dunno what to do and I typed, when I hit the button A, I autoattacked and died. That begins a 2 year exploration, pain and all, but sweet. Yes the excitemnt, the thrill of walking alone in the forest outside oggok, and running into a lvl 20s spectre when I was lvl 6, just outside oggok, is fun.
Yes those were the days.
Those I list above were ways to appreciate WoW. They made a game that caters to people seeking that form of fun. Indeed, it would not be good for me when I was in college with too much time to spare.
Now that I am working 24/7, EQ won't cut it. I will be asleep 2 hours upon logon, and in EQ, you need more than 2 hours just to find the people, wait for them to arrive on foot, and fight to the camp spot.
No problem with your views. Everybody has a different perspective and desire from a game, and everyone's situation and wishes changes as they grow up.
Sigh.. You want to talk bloody statistics? Here you go. In Russia about 60-70 percents of teenagers and young adults drink an "energy cocktail" (alcoholic), known as "Jaguar". Highly toxic, highly unhealthy, yet they buy 2-3 cans a day, just to puke it all tommorow. Effectively destroying their liver and (to an extent) their brain. Gee, this sure does mean, that Jaguar is the best thing ever! They make huge profit and outsell everyone on the market! Cut me a break. WoW is not a bad game. In fact, I like it. But the thing is - WoW is not the best MMO out there. And will never be. The "simplicity" of it is not the point, but rather it's shalowness. You can't do much - crafting is useless, leveling is a solo minigame, the raiding is basically the same in every other game, the PvP is... There. That's all I can say about it. The RP is barely existent. There are no side-activities - no housing, no collecting, no build experimenting... Nothing. The players have no visual difference (seriously, FFXI had more) and the community... Sigh... The community is another thread entirely. And yet I play it. Why? Because it's a fun game. It's a MMO version of Geometry Wars - sweet and short. But sometimes, I crave something akin to Heroes of Might and Magic, or, say, Baldur's Gate.
Whose saying that World of Warcraft is the best game ever?
Comments
You defined them as nitwits like I stated (Well at least according to you, players that defend WoW are). When did I ever say anything even REMOTELY close to defending WoW? I'm just pointing out bothersome posters that seem to think their tiresome opinions about what they feel is wrong with WoW, carries the same weight for the people that enjoy the game....it does not. You call it a senseless treadmill, some people that play do not see it that way. Some people may enjoy the sense of enjoyment in getting a new set piece to their armor. You say battlegrounds are stale, I say they are battlegrounds to fight in period. Whether they are the old ones or the new ones it does not matter. The players you fight against in them make them enjoyable to some people.
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Look you're putting too much thought into this.....point is you are looking to bait what you believe to be frothing defenders of a tired ass game into a flamewar. I dunno maybe to get a feeling like you've accomplished something here. I will go back to playing WoW and you will continue to enjoy whatever game you play....but by the sound of it, that would mean nothing since the way you described WoW goes for 100% of the MMos out there to begin with.
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But go on, continue your quest to preach about what the industry needs to do to cater to you in a WoW forum......I mean damn..You really are like a bible-thumper......knocking on someone else's door and trying to get them to see your truths.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Look, you can side step and misdirect all you like, the fact remains that the pvp content is years old, and is being added at a awful and slow pace, about one per expansion. Items are being added at a tremendous pace, but the content isn't for pvpers. That is a FACT.
"THEY MIGHT ENJOY IT" doesn't negate the fact that:
1 - People are still doing the same battlegrounds for years ago in order to attain honor for new gear.
2 - People AFK in battlegrounds.
Afking, does that sound like the behavoir of people who are enjoying themselves, or does that dangle the dubious line of opinion? Hey, maybe afk macroing is a new type of game that people immensely enjoy. Who are we to judge the sound design of that?
A bible thumper... That's funny. What exactly is it that you've been doing in this thread, or rather, directing at me?
I'm not here to change opinions, I'm merely here to state mine. Your bile is just as the same as the tired "WOW ISH 4 KIDS" bile. Same hyperbolic garbage, different angle.
Personally, I used to love this game. Then BC rolled around, gave everyone a pile of cash, made raids ridiculously boring and long (BWL was IMO the peak of raiding fun, bosses, few trash, some innovation), decided to add a PVP component the game wasn't initially built for (Arena), and looked to kill the entire game world, opting rather to cram players into instances.
I quit around season 3. I had my full arena set and had nothing to do. I had my epic engineering plane, my veteran friends had left, Raiding was boring, and I found myself running Magisters Terrace every day in order to get a trinket. I was logging on less and less, the game world desolate. Both horde and alliance crowding battle and arena masters waiting in line, or sitting in an instanced dungeon for that next big upgrade.
I admit, I was tempted to try the expansion. I remember how exciting early BC was, with all of the players leveling, exploring and fighting one another; but I opted to wait, and see what happened in a few months.
Lo and behold; the newness factor wears off. The content was finished in days ; the new PVP battleground was awful, Arena was still a primary focus, Wintergrasp was lagged to the point of unplayable, and the wide praise of the playerbase and some of the newer friends that I have still playing turned into boredom. There may be vehicles, there may be Death Knights, and the graphics look a little better but... Nothing's changed, and people continue to play because "there's nothing better". (It doesnt occur to some people that you can just... NOT play something you complain about on the forums constantly.)
As I risk being long winded here, I'll close by reiterating that it will take innovation to dethrone WoW... Well, no. I think I'm wrong.
The combined effort of a WoW clone called Aion and Wizards 101 will probably do the trick in about 6 months or so. It wont DIE, but It won't be as huge as it is now, I think.
That's just a dumb statement. Of these, what, millions of people who never played the genre. If you think they actually overcame their disdain of paying monthly for a "game" , and yes that's how it was for most of the people I knew before WoW, for a game that's not even "good" you're just deluding yourself. They'd have dumped a crap game like a sore ... whatever.
People enjoyed it, it's as simple and basic as that. Whether you consider the game good or not is besides the point, people enjoyed themselves and they wanted to play. That's why I play games, that's why they play games. I'd still play Pong if I hadn't got tired of it, because it was a thoroughly enjoyable game, even though it's the simplest and most basic thing you could imagine.
Other MMO's are just different, and even 9/10 cases not even that significantly if you compared them to *any* other genre. These games are mostly basically the same. You get some people who look at just MMO's and argue semantics on how greatly beter game A is versus B but anyone else would consider them mostly the same in gamestyle.
I also love the nostalgia people who seem to think that WoW is "easy" and "dumbed down" yet whenever they mention "how" it is dumbed down all they speak of is how much "easier" everything is, which basically comes down to how much less tedium and how much less downtime there is in the game. It has nothing to do with skill most of the time. Just time spent.
Again you misunderstand, I say they didn't know any better because to anyone that's never played an MMO, WoW would be the largest game they've played, in some cases the most in-depth game they've played and the most social game they've played so immediately it's this great new thing that everyone loves and finds enjoyable, but that could be said about every MMORPG but WoW is most people's first so they stick with it. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, I;m just trying to add to the reasons why people think it's "4 1/2 years later and still going strong". I give up anyway, this is like arguing with a 4 year old with my mouth full In that you people seem to have an idea in your head's that won't change-so there's no point in trying, and then typing leaves out half thepoint and makes it even harder to communicate.
What about for all those players like me where WOW is NOT their first game and enjoy playing it? My first MMORPG was in 2004 and SWG. Also, many first timers who did start with WOW and left came back because no other MMORPG for them was stable or fun compared to what WOW offers.
And I us the phrase "4 1/2 years later and still going strong" because the facts say so. But from what I've gathered from the WOW haters, facts should never get in the way of dogma.
Ktanner, how many times do you think these threads have been made and with the same result. Numbers mean nothing and a good example why is the Wii. Now just like wow, nintendo caters to a larger fanbase, thus it has a large playing field. Does nintendo(wow) have better graphics than its predecessors? No it does not its simply because both can be played by all ages and thats your result. I frankly dont care about several million 12 year olds or several age groups higher that play the game due to its simplicity. I know you have to keep ppl playing somehow, but clearly other games proved that adding levels to a game didnt make it anymore interesting to play, in fact it made it more of a chore. In wotlk WoW started something new which was wintergrasp and also one of WoWs first "attempts" at RvR which failed miserably.
And just to remind you tanner, just like the fanbase rmt has a major chunk of subscriptions as well as the larger fanbase that WoW can reach. How many ppl are to damn cheap to get a good comp? I could name at least 30 i know personally that say no and also say the play wow because thier PC cant run anything else. WoW can be played from a carboard tower and a ice cube cooling system, which yet again is why they reach a higher fanbase. Finally, how many ppl do you know that play wow that doesnt have thier total immediate family play it also? Average family has about 3 kids, thats 3 subs and 2 more for the parents if they all play(which due to WoWs simplicity and easy mode this is more than possible in every case).
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Ok figures means nothing, when they do not support your arguement. 12 millions subs means nothing to you. But you quoted what? 30 people you know that proves WoW players are cheap and cannot afford to pay for better computers. Now figures means something b/c they support your argument. Come on, make up your mind, is 30 a stronger support to an argument than 12 million? The 30 you know represents the entire 12 million? I casually browsed the web and found more than 30 persons posting online seeking ways to configure high level display cards or vista, to play WoW, now we have more than 30 people willing to buy good hardware to play WoW. Does that defeats your argument?
You have to remind us that WoW has family appeal? Thank you for the big reminder. How about I tell you that WoW has a wider social appeal than just a family. My family members play it, even after we no longer live together. Many friends and colleagues play it. So what? That proves WoW is weak? is simple to play? appeals to a wider spectrum of people? How is that a weakness?
You want a game in which you are tortured, in which you need to run around for an hour to find a mob, or wait spam for an hour to form a group, to have to find the right group just to head out of town? Ok, good for you. I wonder why people find improvements in household appliances "good", but simplication of UI and game mechanisms "dumb down". If you do not want to be dumbed down, do not use washing machine, vacuum machine nor even cooker. Better still grow your own wheat and make your own bread. Milk your own cow and never visit a grocery. Throw money out of the window and do every chore yourself.
WoW cuts out the stupid time sinks in EQ, the competitor they face when they started some 4 years ago. They replace the stupid timesinks with another form of timesink, that is more fun. Lets use EQ in its hey days (before WoW) as an illustration. If you want to use another game, do it yourself.
(1) In EQ you waste time going to the instance. Yeah no kidding, we wipe a lot just reaching the zone in. Which is not fun. In WoW you just need 2 persons to reach the summoning stone, where as in EQ you have to wait for all raid members to make his way there. In WoW you can summon people directly into the instance (warlocks) to replace lost members, in EQ you have to fight back all the way to zone in to pick up the new member. How many times we wipe trying to get out to pick up replacement member, then having to fight in nake to get our corpse or fight nake to zone in and have someone go to get enough coffins to summon the corpses? I find more fun actually doing the instance, than spending the same amount of time trying to set up for the instance.
(2) In EQ you have to walk, and ridiculous walking time, to get from one place to another. That leads to many of us loggin alts in different instances, and using only the alt for that instance. Travelling in EQ is not funny nor friendly. WoW provides flightpaths, flying mounts. That saves a lot of troubles. I would say CoX is most friendly in terms of mobility, and superjump is outright fun. Do I want to spent time walking from place to place or have me forced to play only this alt for this instance? No, I prefer the freedom in WoW, in which I pool all my alts in dalaran, and select the alt I prefer to play today.
(3) EQ makes recovery from wipes a pain. Well there are times when wipes are caused by accidents. Server spike have killed lots of raids. Why should we waste hours trying to recover, b/c the server spikes? Why should we lose a level after some painful raid wipes, and have to go back to pve to recover the level in order to resume raiding, cos lvl 60 give us some spells or skill vital to raids, and droppin down to lvl 59 means bye bye to raiding? WoW makes death a minor issue, so we can wipe laugh and try again. Not everyone online have 12 hours per session, and easy recovery from wipes makes it possible to get something done in 2 or 3 hours, with simple solution to replacing members and keeping the raid going on for 4-6 hours. Its not unknown that the starting group replaces half its members by the time the raid comes to an end. Can you do that in EQ?
(4) WoW keeps enhancing its interace, I am not talking about the mods. The little details makes life very comfortable in raids. You know whether your raid member is in range to your heals, you know who has debuffs. You have options to display what, say hp bars of mobs on top of the mobs. You have so much room to configurate, with different setting for each alt. You got fancy little details that just makes life easy. I do not see how this is dumb down. Some mods do make the game a bit too easy, and you have the option not to use it. I do not. But the efforts of WoW in creating a first class "configurable" UI, is a classic example of customer service. I am given options, which allows me to set up the difficulty level I want. If you want challenge, you can remove all setting and play in the old EQ way, find your member one by one my hand and heal with no debuffing displayed. You can do it.
(5) WoW makes a game in which there are so many different things to do. Much more than EQ. Whether you like it or not is your issue. There are people who likes some of each. That is the key to WoW's success, different people, in different mood, could still find something to do in WoW. In EQ, after reaching max level, you will be waiing for a group to form up to raid. In WoW there are various raids to choose from, and you can pvp while waiting for a raid to form, or craft or harvest or do dailies (and various kinds of them). Yes daily is repetitive, but still more fun than just sitting at zone in waiting for the raid to form.
Not that WoW is without weakness. But to use a sweeping statement to dismiss WoW, like you did, is simply unconvincing.
You know whats funny... Every single point you made for WoW is the reason I dislike WoW... Everything is handed to you without any effort. That makes for a very boring game.
In EQ1 you felt like you earned everything you got and every level you got.
WoW is on easy mode, with all the mods and the quests. EQ1 made you think while playing, WoW any moron can play and does play by the way.
EQ1 had the best community I ever been a part of. In WoW was one of the worst communities. I only talked to my guild members because the rest of the people were morons.
In EQ1 I used to join PuGs all the time (pick up groups), in WoW I would never ever think of joining a PuG.
I loved how death ment bad things in EQ1 as it should, it should make you fear dieing and do everything in you power not to die, in WoW death is a way to travel because it means nothing.
You can replace memebers of your raid in EQ1 without problems, we used to do it all the time.
Travel? You cannot be bothered to travel from location to location? Instead you want everything made easy, your the type of player that has ruined what MMOs should be. Your the type of player that was all the rewards without putting forth any effort, you are part of the "I WANT IT NOW" crowd that is ruining everything today (in RL as well) least of which is my MMO experience.
I am sorry but WoW is a solid game but it is geared toward people that want everything now, without any effort or thinking. WoW is successful because people today are lazy and want someone else to do the work and they sit back and get the rewards. WoW is fast food and EQ1 is fine dinning.
No worries, fact is, many people would agree with you. When I was 10 years younger I agree with you.
I started serious MMO with EQ1. My first is an ogre. I walked out, in that damn dark city, tried to talk to an npc. I targeted him, dunno what to do and I typed, when I hit the button A, I autoattacked and died. That begins a 2 year exploration, pain and all, but sweet. Yes the excitemnt, the thrill of walking alone in the forest outside oggok, and running into a lvl 20s spectre when I was lvl 6, just outside oggok, is fun.
Yes those were the days.
Those I list above were ways to appreciate WoW. They made a game that caters to people seeking that form of fun. Indeed, it would not be good for me when I was in college with too much time to spare.
Now that I am working 24/7, EQ won't cut it. I will be asleep 2 hours upon logon, and in EQ, you need more than 2 hours just to find the people, wait for them to arrive on foot, and fight to the camp spot.
No problem with your views. Everybody has a different perspective and desire from a game, and everyone's situation and wishes changes as they grow up.
Whose saying that World of Warcraft is the best game ever?
Exactly, it's the best MMORPG ever .