2/10 , 5.000 subscribers , game not making a profit its demise is innevitavble
Numbers dont lie.
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Add the one-time purchase price to that (I don't remember it).
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
People aren't waiting in huge lines. There was a ton of interest right before it was released, because players were looking forward to an open beta (play for free). Today, interest in the game seems relatively low. There are definitely people interested in it, but not nearly as many as you think.
And not nearly as few as you think.
Prove it. I'm able to extrapolate a reasonably accurate numbers of players from two different sources, one of which is from within the actual game. You're spewing hyberbole. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so and there's no way for you to qualify your statement. As such, it's meaningless.
People aren't waiting in huge lines. There was a ton of interest right before it was released, because players were looking forward to an open beta (play for free). Today, interest in the game seems relatively low. There are definitely people interested in it, but not nearly as many as you think.
And not nearly as few as you think.
Prove it. I'm able to extrapolate a reasonably accurate numbers of players from two different sources, one of which is from within the actual game. You're spewing hyberbole. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so and there's no way for you to qualify your statement. As such, it's meaningless.
I am not commenting on the game or the review. I find it very unprofessional that Tasos posted that message. A developer attacking a reviewer (even if the reviewer is a complete idiot) and revealing information about an account is one of the worst thing a game developer can do. I do realize that much of what Tasos writes is correct, but it is not proper for a developer to do that. It would be like someone at Bethesda/Capcom (or whoever) saying the reviewer of at such and such is a idiot and a liar. That kinda just rubs me the wrong way as it comes off looking like a group of whiny little turds. A professional company that felt they were wronged by a reviewer would release a statement or post a message fixing the contradictions, but would not attack the reviewer and call them a liar. Post the corrections explain but do not give out account information to prove your point nor should you attack the reviewer. You would think that Tasos and everyone over there would have grown some tough skin do to the amount of dislike/hate this game get, but no they act like a little kid.
tasos keeps showing that he's just not hardcore enough to play a game like darkfall... much less code one.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Company generated user lines "limilt the amount of sub's increases false demand". Your view on this is some what near sighted. Sports does this a lot, limit the amount of tickets and the demand will be high compared to the amount of tickets avabiable. Scalpers love it though.....
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
Funny, rather than being inferior it looks as though eveyrone you are picking a fight with are dispelling your arguments with ease. I think the one-liners are due to desperation rather than anything else. And try and make them witty in the future eh?
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard? Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable. 20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month 280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year Add the one-time purchase price to that (I don't remember it).
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
Company generated user lines "limilt the amount of sub's increases false demand". Your view on this is some what near sighted. Sports does this a lot, limit the amount of tickets and the demand will be high compared to the amount of tickets avabiable. Scalpers love it though.....
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
. . . because you are obviously superior right? All should bow to your objective views of a this game right? People like you are the reason that no one takes the Darkfall fans seriously.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
2/10 , 5.000 subscribers , game not making a profit its demise is innevitavble
Numbers dont lie.
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
No wonder nobody takes you seriously:
I've listed the reasoning behind the 16k figure in several posts on these boards, including earlier in this thread,but I'll repeat them for you. Per Signus, an IRC mod, there are 13k total players. His post has since been deleted, but I've pasted pics of it on these boards. Even though he's not an Aventurine employee, the fact that his post was deleted (and there's nothing else in it to justify it's deletion) gives credence to it's value. Regardless, I've personally verified the total clan clounts listed in game and it was just under 16k at the time I counted (a few days ago). Since the clan count includes ex-players, the total number of active clan players is actually less. Since most players that stick with the game join clans in order to survive, using the clan count gives a good baseline for active membership estimates.
I've cited sources. You're just guessing with 20k and that guess is unreasonable, because you can't qualify it
The actual subscription fee, per my account screen, is €11,77/month, not €14/month. As such, your estimates, even if they were accurate, are off.
For those paying a higher rate, due to VAT, please note that Aventurine doesn't get to keep the VAT, therefore it can't be included.
You specifically asked "How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?", then you end this lastest post with "Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.". So you do know their business model, including their growth strategy? Prove it. Your post is merely defensive hyperbole and blatant hypocrisy.
Hey atleast they get a huge viral marketing thing going on like this.
Very true. Best thing they could do now would be to release a demo. If they tied it in with a small campaign stating "why not try it yourself" rather than conduct battles with review sites in public they might be on to something. They would only need to make a post for it on their own sites - the existing viral net would distribute it everywhere in minutes. but that would only be worth doing if the game is any good of course.
Hey atleast they get a huge viral marketing thing going on like this.
The same way if a director or actor lambasts a negative review of their film, nobody goes to watch it because everybody sees them as an annoying crybaby.
Just like Tasos. He actually got more attention to a negative review than anybody in the history of gaming. LOL, it's hilarious.
Kieron Gillian? He's alright. Pretty well known in the UK, but a bit overrated IMO. If I was really going to stir I could post up his FEAR 2 review where he missed the fact where you could do flying kicks, but to his credit he did go back and correct his review.
I really hope it's between 8-10 this time , just so i can see all the fanboys start praising the site for it's unbiased and very objectional and accurate reviews
Company generated user lines "limilt the amount of sub's increases false demand". Your view on this is some what near sighted. Sports does this a lot, limit the amount of tickets and the demand will be high compared to the amount of tickets avabiable. Scalpers love it though.....
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
. . . because you are obviously superior right? All should bow to your objective views of a this game right? People like you are the reason that no one takes the Darkfall fans seriously.
Yes, obviously.
If you don't believe me, then go through the posts, and you can see Im clearly better at arguing. If you can make such a judgement, that is. Otherwise you need to get someone good at rhetorics to help you.
2/10 , 5.000 subscribers , game not making a profit its demise is innevitavble
Numbers dont lie.
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
No wonder nobody takes you seriously:
I've listed the reasoning behind the 16k figure in several posts on these boards, including earlier in this thread,but I'll repeat them for you. Per Signus, an IRC mod, there are 13k total players. His post has since been deleted, but I've pasted pics of it on these boards. Even though he's not an Aventurine employee, the fact that his post was deleted (and there's nothing else in it to justify it's deletion) gives credence to it's value. Regardless, I've personally verified the total clan clounts listed in game and it was just under 16k at the time I counted (a few days ago). Since the clan count includes ex-players, the total number of active clan players is actually less. Since most players that stick with the game join clans in order to survive, using the clan count gives a good baseline for active membership estimates.
I've cited sources. You're just guessing with 20k and that guess is unreasonable, because you can't qualify it
The actual subscription fee, per my account screen, is €11,77/month, not €14/month. As such, your estimates, even if they were accurate, are off.
For those paying a higher rate, due to VAT, please note that Aventurine doesn't get to keep the VAT, therefore it can't be included.
You specifically asked "How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?", then you end this lastest post with "Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.". So you do know their business model, including their growth strategy? Prove it. Your post is merely defensive hyperbole and blatant hypocrisy.
~Ripper
Your 13k number of someone on an IRC channel is just as verifiable, as Tasos' log, that everyone here is attacking.
I came with my 20k number (yes, complete guess - as is yours, whatever you claim your source may be) before I properly read your post (I didn't see the calculations 'till after). However, after having settled the VAT dispute (I agree with you on 11.77€) our calculations are as good as identical, save the small difference in subscription number estimations.
So let us not make this a bigger deal than it is.
Im glad to see someone finally worthy to have a discussion with. Someone who at least argues. That I can respect - unlike most other responses I have had here.
One more thing on the business model:
You must take the growth strategy into account. They have only released one server so far, which puts a hard cap on their growth. They must obviously have a plan beyond that.
Growth is part of the business model, and therefore your (our) calculation is not the final word on it.
I am more than confident, that the income they get right now keeps them floating.
While I dislike DF and think they have a ways to go before it becomes a good game, the review was a tad overboard. Sure there is not a lot to like about DF unless you like mindless pvp with mechanics from 5 years ago, however he should have at least played the game longer imo only since it was for a large magazine company and an official review.
However with that being said, it seems like Tasos is on the verge of crying and he knows DF cannot last through the year with or without this review. The only thing that can really save them is some good reviews by large companies, so this certainly did not help, hater review or not. Him crying out like this should have been kept in house and not splattered across the front pages for everyone to see. Basically it sends a message that if anyone posts anything bad about DF he will find ways to demean you and cut you down. This has been proven over and over on their forums already by closing and locking threads.
I sense DF has maybe a couple months left unless something huge happens. I know DF fanboys will flame me for saying this but it's the truth. It's hard to keep an mmo up and running if you lack revenue and i'm sorry 10-15k subs is not enough.
We have all read many horrible reviews on lots of games, but never can I remember a company coming back whining about a review... Never.
CA, the company that produces the Total War series just came out with a new game that got absolutely trashed by the reviewers, scoring a 2.5 out of 10. Not one word from them arguing about the reviews.
It's totally unprofessional to be crying about a review. Also, as a side note. Kean's latest Darkfall reviews are pretty much saying the same exact thing the Eurogamer wrote, and Kean was a fan of Darkfall when his initial reviews began. Check them out online.
While I certainly wouldn't condone an article that was an outright lie, I see no reason whatsoever for a legitimate gaming site to do that. Tasos crying only shows how completely unprofessional this company is.
Comments
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Add the one-time purchase price to that (I don't remember it).
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
And not nearly as few as you think.
Prove it. I'm able to extrapolate a reasonably accurate numbers of players from two different sources, one of which is from within the actual game. You're spewing hyberbole. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so and there's no way for you to qualify your statement. As such, it's meaningless.
~Ripper
And not nearly as few as you think.
Prove it. I'm able to extrapolate a reasonably accurate numbers of players from two different sources, one of which is from within the actual game. You're spewing hyberbole. Just because you believe it doesn't make it so and there's no way for you to qualify your statement. As such, it's meaningless.
~Ripper
No, YOU prove! You began first claiming.
Oh, btw, Rhinok, your numbers are trash.
Monthly subscription is 14€ per month.
I have no idea where you got 11.77€.
tasos keeps showing that he's just not hardcore enough to play a game like darkfall... much less code one.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
I subscribe to the game the cost is 11.77 euros a month
I have no idea where you got 14 euro
Funny, rather than being inferior it looks as though eveyrone you are picking a fight with are dispelling your arguments with ease. I think the one-liners are due to desperation rather than anything else. And try and make them witty in the future eh?
You may be blind.
And you may be deaf.
But, hell, why can't you be dumb, too?
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
. . . because you are obviously superior right? All should bow to your objective views of a this game right? People like you are the reason that no one takes the Darkfall fans seriously.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
No wonder nobody takes you seriously:
~Ripper
Hey atleast they get a huge viral marketing thing going on like this.
The same way if a director or actor lambasts a negative review of their film, nobody goes to watch it because everybody sees them as an annoying crybaby.
Just like Tasos. He actually got more attention to a negative review than anybody in the history of gaming. LOL, it's hilarious.
anyway seems they get an additional review www.eurogamer.net/articles/editors-blog-darkfall-aftermath-blog-entry
Now i wonder what will happen if that one returns with a low score too. The Guy hired for that seems quite credible.
I subscribe to the game the cost is 11.77 euros a month
I have no idea where you got 14 euro
No you don't.
Dont make me take a screenshot of the shop with the prices.
Edit: You may be right. The price I get is including VAT.
Kieron Gillian? He's alright. Pretty well known in the UK, but a bit overrated IMO. If I was really going to stir I could post up his FEAR 2 review where he missed the fact where you could do flying kicks, but to his credit he did go back and correct his review.
I really hope it's between 8-10 this time , just so i can see all the fanboys start praising the site for it's unbiased and very objectional and accurate reviews
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Im in the game every day, I can see the activity. Thank you for your opinion. NEXT!
So Rasputin has gone to the It's great because I say so defendse. You were talking about AoC declining and Darkfall taking over. If an AoC person comes in and says that Darkfall will die because they play AoC everyday and they say so will it completely negate your stance? No. Because the "That sucks because I say so" Defense hasn't worked since 4th grade.
Face it while Darkfall may have a lot interested. You can't base anything off their method of selling. Itd be like if two guys grew watermelons. One grew 400 one grew 4. And everyday the guy with 4 sold out and the guy with 400 only sold 350. Would it make sense for the guy with 4 to proclaim himself the greatest watermelon grower in the world because theres such demand for his that he sells out everyday?
You know, at some point, when it becomes clear to me, that posters responding are obviously inferior, I lose my patience, and then I resort to one-liners.
. . . because you are obviously superior right? All should bow to your objective views of a this game right? People like you are the reason that no one takes the Darkfall fans seriously.
Yes, obviously.
If you don't believe me, then go through the posts, and you can see Im clearly better at arguing. If you can make such a judgement, that is. Otherwise you need to get someone good at rhetorics to help you.
I subscribe to the game the cost is 11.77 euros a month
I have no idea where you got 14 euro
No you don't.
Dont make me take a screenshot of the shop with the prices.
Edit: You may be right. The price I get is including VAT.
plsplsplsplspls DO SO !!!!!!
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Exactly which of your numbers is more than opinion?
And it not making a profit? How do you know? Do you know AV's business model?
You don't need to know their business model. It's public knowledge that they've spent at least 11 million Euros in development.I It's also public knowledge that Tasos said in a Greek interview that Aventurine was going to recoup their 11 million development in a year. There's also the issue of the €20 million convertible bond they issued. Companies issue convertible bonds as a way to raise money. Whether or not Aventurine was able to raise money through the bond is unknown. What is known is that Tasos gave a presentation at the Open Coffee meeting in Greece, which is another avenue for raising funds. So, there's a minimum investment that needs to be recouped, possible investor money that will need to be repaid in either cash or stocks, ongoing vendor fees, expenses, payroll, etc...
Taking all that into consideration, it's unlikely that Darkfall is a financial success. Let's assume there have been 50k accounts sold @ €42/each. That's a generous number of accounts, but it's still only €2.1 million. It's good for a quick influx of cash, but hte real money comes from subscriptions. Assuming a flat 16k total active player accounts (see my previous posts) @ ;€11,77/month, that's €188.320/month. If Aventurine can at least maintain that number of players, that will be under €2.3 million in 12 months. So, in 1 year, assuming those figures, Aventurine will have made under €4.4 million. That's defniitely not enough to cover the minimum initial development costs. Hopefully they have cash reserves and are making enough to pay monthly expenses. I'd like to see Darkfall succeed. Unfortunately, I think it was released too soon. I agree with many that it's essentially a paid beta right now and personally think that may be due, at least in part, to Aventurine needing money.
~Ripper
Have you done any calculations yourself? Or are you just parrotting something you heard?
Let us estimate them at 20.000 customers. That is not unreasonable.
20.000 * 14€ = 280.000€ per month
280.000 * 12 months = 3.360.000€ per year
Sounds decent to me, considering their growth strategy.
No wonder nobody takes you seriously:
~Ripper
Your 13k number of someone on an IRC channel is just as verifiable, as Tasos' log, that everyone here is attacking.
I came with my 20k number (yes, complete guess - as is yours, whatever you claim your source may be) before I properly read your post (I didn't see the calculations 'till after). However, after having settled the VAT dispute (I agree with you on 11.77€) our calculations are as good as identical, save the small difference in subscription number estimations.
So let us not make this a bigger deal than it is.
Im glad to see someone finally worthy to have a discussion with. Someone who at least argues. That I can respect - unlike most other responses I have had here.
One more thing on the business model:
You must take the growth strategy into account. They have only released one server so far, which puts a hard cap on their growth. They must obviously have a plan beyond that.
Growth is part of the business model, and therefore your (our) calculation is not the final word on it.
I am more than confident, that the income they get right now keeps them floating.
I subscribe to the game the cost is 11.77 euros a month
I have no idea where you got 14 euro
No you don't.
Dont make me take a screenshot of the shop with the prices.
Edit: You may be right. The price I get is including VAT.
There is a screen shot posted on the previous page
Thank you.
I subscribe to the game the cost is 11.77 euros a month
I have no idea where you got 14 euro
No you don't.
Dont make me take a screenshot of the shop with the prices.
Edit: You may be right. The price I get is including VAT.
There is a screen shot posted on the previous page
Thank you.
Did you notice the "Edit:", or do you only read 2/3 of posts?
While I dislike DF and think they have a ways to go before it becomes a good game, the review was a tad overboard. Sure there is not a lot to like about DF unless you like mindless pvp with mechanics from 5 years ago, however he should have at least played the game longer imo only since it was for a large magazine company and an official review.
However with that being said, it seems like Tasos is on the verge of crying and he knows DF cannot last through the year with or without this review. The only thing that can really save them is some good reviews by large companies, so this certainly did not help, hater review or not. Him crying out like this should have been kept in house and not splattered across the front pages for everyone to see. Basically it sends a message that if anyone posts anything bad about DF he will find ways to demean you and cut you down. This has been proven over and over on their forums already by closing and locking threads.
I sense DF has maybe a couple months left unless something huge happens. I know DF fanboys will flame me for saying this but it's the truth. It's hard to keep an mmo up and running if you lack revenue and i'm sorry 10-15k subs is not enough.
I have to totally agree.
We have all read many horrible reviews on lots of games, but never can I remember a company coming back whining about a review... Never.
CA, the company that produces the Total War series just came out with a new game that got absolutely trashed by the reviewers, scoring a 2.5 out of 10. Not one word from them arguing about the reviews.
It's totally unprofessional to be crying about a review. Also, as a side note. Kean's latest Darkfall reviews are pretty much saying the same exact thing the Eurogamer wrote, and Kean was a fan of Darkfall when his initial reviews began. Check them out online.
While I certainly wouldn't condone an article that was an outright lie, I see no reason whatsoever for a legitimate gaming site to do that. Tasos crying only shows how completely unprofessional this company is.