I don't know whats more funny, that guys review or Tasos's rant.
Quote:
"While other MMOs have relied on their players to fill in the content to an extent - Star Wars Galaxies being the most notable example - few have abused the sandbox mentality so readily as Aventurine. It's the emperor's new clothes of 2009: such a marvellous game that only an idiot wouldn't realise the beauty of the gaping holes in its content, its wonky control system, and its seemingly decade-old engine."
Wow he really had a bad experance in DF.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I could have spent 9 hours playing warhammer online and would have only experienced tier 1. Tier 1 was a blast. PVP was fun and I received these cool abilities. Now lets say I based my review on only my experience in tier 1. You think ANY warhammer player that progressed past tier 1 that read my review would have said "yea this guy knows what hes talking about?" I doubt it. These aren't single player console games. MMORPGs experience evolves and expands the more you progress.
Really, these aren't single player console games? I must be in the wrong forum...
Look, many MMORPGs evolve and expand the more you progress, I get, agree and understand that. Yet, if in the first 9 hours, the game has not done it's job, and the intial mechanics and gameplay haven't left me with that feeling of, "Well, that was fun and refreshing, what else is there to do, and what else can I experience?", then I am probably not going to continue on, and will probably not recommend the game to anyone.
Tier one was a blast in Warhammer, you progressed, and then what happened? How far did you make it before continuing on, and experiencing all the game has to experience? Heck, maybe you have. Maybe you are still playing? Then again, maybe not. Maybe you experienced something you didn't like, you found things to be not really to your liking, and maybe you quit before experiencing everything the game had to offer (all of the races/classes/zones/etc.). Maybe this has happened in other MMO's you have tried as well, maybe not, but then again, some people have a higher tolerance for things they don't like than do others.
The point being, there comes a time when people can only play/watch/read something they don't connect with for so long, before realizing it's not for them, and choose to move on. If he enjoyed the game, or found some spark that connected to him, then maybe he would have continued and seen the "diamond in the rough"...but obviously it didn't connect, and it doesn't connect with everyone. To my understanding, at least what I gather from the fanboys, Tasos and crew wanted a niche game. A game that would cater to the tastes of a small cross section of the gaming community, so honestly, bad reviews should come as no surprise, they are after all not out to please everyone, right? They should be happy with their niche, why should they care what a major website has to say about them? "Niche" games aren't meant to appeal to everyone.
He evolved and progressed as much as his tolerance would allow, and found the game lacking. His opinion. It is what it is.
The reason why I mentioned that these are not single player games but rather mmorpgs is because I noticed the common mistake that many review sites and companies make, and that is rating an mmorpg like they would a single player game.
But I will agree with what you said. People can only play/watch/read so much. Some people just cannot connect with something. BUT, they shouldn't be writing a review for said thing. I couldn't get past level 7 in final fantasy 11 and quit my first month. I talked about my early and limited experience but did not RATE the game based on my week of gameplay.
Honestly, this eurogamer reviewer isn't just an average mmorpg.com user who post his opinion, he is a reviewer for a major website. He needs to play the game to the fullest, because thats his task. If I was writing a book review, should I just base it on the first 100 pages...because thats all I could tolerate? I hope you can see my point and see why this eurogamer review is wrong and incomplete.
Do you not understand how reviews work? By what you are saying, you want a reviewed to spend at LEAST a specified time within an MMO before his/her review is deemed "credible." If that were the case, you are asking the reviewer to play the game for MONTHS or YEARS as a prerequisite to write a REVIEW (i.e. their OPINION) on the game. That is not only unreasonable, but frankly absurd.
Second, most magazines/reviewers go back to MMOs after periods of time to review the game after a period has passed to see where it's headed.
And your analogy to a book doesn't work because books have beginning, middles and ends whereas an MMO is ever-evolving.
And really, what gives you the right to redefine what a "review" is or should be? If you don't like it move along. I played DF when it launched and I agree with the feeling of the review...the game is an unpolished, grueling bore with simply, bugged boring combat where there is NOTHING to do outside of ganking.
And to end this debate maybe, it's called METACRITIC people. If DF is good, the overall average score will be high. The 2.0 would effect it surely, but if it gets 10 other 9.0s, the average will deduce a very good game. This review did seem overboard, but that is how he felt obviously. He had no reason to have an agenda against this company or this game, the only person with an agenda here is Tasos. I wouldn't give the game a 2/10, but LOTS of people here agree with it and what the reviewer said that have played the game, so whether he played it or not, apparently lots of people that have played it for many hours AGREE with him.
A metacritic average would be great, if it existed. This underscores my original points about Tasos' response to the review. In Tasos' original response to the Eurogamer review, he said: "Darkfall’s reviews so far have been mostly good ones". As I said before, what reviews? Look at metacritic's rating for Darkfall. There's only one published review and its the one from Eurogamer! Why? Because nobody else had published a review yet! There have been blogger reviews, like Paragus1's and Keen's, but no site/magazine published reviews. Tasos said Aventurine provided Eurogamer with two accounts. Have they provided accounts to other reviewers? If so, where are the reviews? There was supposed to be press beta, but that never materialized. According to Tasos, he did several interviews prior to the launch, but those never materialized, either. One or two did, but that's not "several".
By limiting access to the game to all but the most die-hard fans or the most incredibly lucky, you have a greater likelihood of getting positive reviews. Open it up to public scrutiny and you can't control what's written about it.
All who play DF at the moment know that the cake is a lie. Cake is a lie. Besides the point: whatever you think of Tasos making the post I still believe the EG review is far from the truth - 2/10? Not even close, I would have understood 6/10 from WoW fanboy.
Can you provide anything apart from your unsubstantiated view? At least Tasos cook up the idea of server logs.
What do you have? Just your empty words? Trying to flame and insult at once, trying to bring in WoW, hoping anti-WoW sentiments will give your side some benefits? What other tricks can you come up with?
Carebear, retarded .... name calling maybe? What else?
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
In the guild I have been since AoC from which we moved to WAR and then to DF we have 68 players and of those 1 quit because he got a child, 3 didn't like the game who sold the account to another guildie who are now having a lot of fun in game.
Game is not for everyone that I agree with but 2/10 is just a review written by a serious troll because the game is not bad once you understand the mechanics which are excellent.
You don't get it I do understand that - I really liked WoW for 3 years until TBC came out and then quit.
I really liked UO when it came out until they carebeared it.
I just like DF... For now, and when it's time to move on I will move on to the next game with my guild, but many of my guildies agree that this is the best PVP experience they have ever had.
So because someone really dislikes DF, their opinion doesnt count? Ive played a few MMOs that deserved a 2/10. Some people love bleu cheese, I personally think it tastes and smells terrible. Does that make me wrong? Nope, its just how I feel about it. The guys vehemence about his dislike of DF makes me think its as bad as a lot of people say. And thats his opinion. I would honestly be suprised if a single gaming site out there gave it a 5/10.
Factor in those snotty elitist fans, and Id give it a .0000000000001/10
You're citing wikipedia as a source? That's funny considering it's all user-defined and takes little or no credentials to write there. Why not cite an actual dictionary like the OED?
Look, here's a definition from Merriam-Webster:
Reviewing: to give a critiical evaluation of.
Evaluate: determine the significance, worth, or condition of usually by careful appraisal and study.
By those definitions, I argue that the reviewer successfully met the criteria.
It doesn't matter one bit, that their reviewers may have only played a limited time..! You don't need too much time in Darkfall to know thatn the UI is piss-poor and extremly ill thought out or to see the lack of quality and the shabby framework.
Everything they mention is true and it's what 99% of beta testers said and almost what anyone who was handed the game today would say. The ONLY people who like this game are newbies, who have limited gamming experience.
Tasos remarks are laughable... what did he want them to say..? Lie? EVERYONE who was in beta told Aventurine about how crude and redumentary Darkfall was/is. Tasos kept lying to us all and kept saying everything was turned off, etc. Now that the game is out, he cannot hide behind lies anymore.!!
If Tasos Flambouras has beef with an honest review, then perhaps he needs to stop lying to himself and the community and learn to deal with R E A L I T Y.... ..!
This has got to be one of the most unprofessional moves I have ever seen a dev publicly make. Attack the reviewer based on the score they give? Wow. Try to negate their credibility based on so-called "server logs"? So what, they were monitoring their play in order to unfluence the score? That's absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel pathetic. Tasos should be embarrassed.
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
This has got to be one of the most unprofessional moves I have ever seen a dev publicly make. Attack the reviewer based on the score they give? Wow. Try to negate their credibility based on so-called "server logs"? So what, they were monitoring their play in order to unfluence the score? That's absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel pathetic. Tasos should be embarrassed.
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
This has got to be one of the most unprofessional moves I have ever seen a dev publicly make. Attack the reviewer based on the score they give? Wow. Try to negate their credibility based on so-called "server logs"? So what, they were monitoring their play in order to unfluence the score? That's absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel pathetic. Tasos should be embarrassed.
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
Not worried! If he has something to prove, then by all means, open a deebate thread and challenge me. Any points he make can easily be disproven through logic and some 22 other MMORPG I can call upon for reference.
Battfield Heroes is a FREE TO PLAY online FPS game (currently in beta) that has 3 classes... that game has more playability and diversity than Darkfall. It has more depth aswell.
I have to say if 9 hours played is true, that's not enough time for a PROFESSIONAL review.
So you wanted the reviewer to play more and get that score down to 1/10? If the reviewer had played longer they might have had an issue that required them to contact AV technical support. And we all know how much higher that would have boosted the reviewer's score.
i find it funny you guys want him to spend 100 hours of play time to review it. That's an entire Bioware RPG. I don't see where he comment about things he did not experienced.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
This has got to be one of the most unprofessional moves I have ever seen a dev publicly make. Attack the reviewer based on the score they give? Wow. Try to negate their credibility based on so-called "server logs"? So what, they were monitoring their play in order to unfluence the score? That's absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel pathetic. Tasos should be embarrassed.
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
The funny thing is I didn't flame DF when he blocked me, I merely pointed out people should avoid arguing with him. Then I went on to say let Metacritic decide DF's fate and not this one review, which is obviously a little harsh. He'll block anything that mentions anything about DF at this point. Makes me laugh that he thinks blocking us has any effect on... anything. And we all know he is going to read our posts anyways and then shake his fists in anger at the monitor because he knows if he responds he'll look even worse.
In any case, once the new review is done and if anyone else is brave enough to review it, an average will come. I assume it will be around a 5, based on my own opinions. It's just funny, the game was 'released' almost 2 and a half months ago... 1 professional review... say anything? You be the judge.
This is hilarious. Tasos is all like " OMG REVIEW DON'T COUNT BECAUSE OF THIS, AND THIS, AND THIS! SEE IT DOESN"T COUNT DON'T LISTEN TO IT!" But Eurogamer is all like "YOU DESERVE IT!"
Tasos broke so easily.
Wtf are you talking about, we can plainly see the facts here: a "hater" took a hold of a game, an editorial review not an employee of the website and trashed it.
Eurogamer must now make mends and take care of their own faliures.
Facts? How can you claim to have facts? You simply have two arguing parties who both claim to have facts. For all I know the eurogamer reviewer did as the devs said, then again he may well be telling the truth and the dev's lieing. You're just being a "hater" yourself by blindly picking a side in the argument just because you like darkfall without actually having any real knowledge of what happened.
I personally do NOT like darkfall. I have NOT tried darkfall. I have however watched videos of it, and have infact TRIED to try out darkfall. Going on the information I have:
The videos - all of which make darkfall look awful
Reviews from people I trust who have tried it
The general design of the game
And the fact that I can confirm what eurogamer said, that it is really hard to actually find where to subscribe to the game (why I havn't tried it). It is like they are trying their best to fail here.
On that, I am leaning towards beleiving the reviewers more, however, unlike the majority of people here I havn't made my mind up totally yet, and am not going to start throwing out insults at people, and making assumptions on something that there is no real evidence from either side on.
This is hilarious. Tasos is all like " OMG REVIEW DON'T COUNT BECAUSE OF THIS, AND THIS, AND THIS! SEE IT DOESN"T COUNT DON'T LISTEN TO IT!" But Eurogamer is all like "YOU DESERVE IT!"
Tasos broke so easily.
Wtf are you talking about, we can plainly see the facts here: a "hater" took a hold of a game, an editorial review not an employee of the website and trashed it.
Eurogamer must now make mends and take care of their own faliures.
Facts? How can you claim to have facts? You simply have two arguing parties who both claim to have facts. For all I know the eurogamer reviewer did as the devs said, then again he may well be telling the truth and the dev's lieing. You're just being a "hater" yourself by blindly picking a side in the argument just because you like darkfall without actually having any real knowledge of what happened.
I personally do NOT like darkfall. I have NOT tried darkfall. I have however watched videos of it, and have infact TRIED to try out darkfall. Going on the information I have:
The videos - all of which make darkfall look awful
Reviews from people I trust who have tried it
The general design of the game
And the fact that I can confirm what eurogamer said, that it is really hard to actually find where to subscribe to the game (why I havn't tried it). It is like they are trying their best to fail here.
On that, I am leaning towards beleiving the reviewers more, however, unlike the majority of people here I havn't made my mind up totally yet, and am not going to start throwing out insults at people, and making assumptions on something that there is no real evidence from either side on.
Einstein-DF has lost his credibility long ago and no one really cares about what he says other than for entretainment purposes, so just let him be.
If you don't believe me, then go through the posts, and you can see Im clearly better at arguing. If you can make such a judgement, that is. Otherwise you need to get someone good at rhetorics to help you.
The only one that this is obvious to is yourself. For everyone else here you're just a joke. For example, you said that you have played games for 32 years yet your age specified here is under 30.
So either you are a liar, like your idol Tasos, or you are referring to gaming done in a previous life.
Somebody made a "Eurogamer.net" guild ingame and sofar 3-400 guilds have declared war on them.... hahaha
Eurogamer has 0 clue about this game, the review is completly crap with 0 basis.
DFO is among the best MMORPGs ever released, Not made for everyone tho.
From the system chat...
Make sure you find out all their player names and kill them OVER and OVER and OVER again. Have people do 24 hour shifts to kill the reviewers players and never, ever help them in game for any reason! If they ask how to put a skill in the hotbar, merely call them name after name and rub it in their face how superior you are! That's what I'd suggest, they deserve it! Let them know what DF is REALLY all about and what they are missing!
" We checked the logs for the 2 accounts we gave Eurogamer and we found that one of them had around 3 minutes playtime, and the other had less than 2 hours spread out in 13 sessions."
What POS.
not even the lowest troll would try to pull this, how horrible of a website are they.
give me a break
Has anyone thought that maybe those 2 hours were so horrid to them that they couldn't bare to even log in? LOL thats happened to me before. I tried COX and played for a bout 30 minutes and I uninstalled it because the game didn't appeal to me at all. LOL a waste of 10 bucks in 30 minutes damn, If the game doesn't make a good first impression chances are it won't later on.
They do reviews and just because they played 2 hours doesn't mean they can't form an opinion of the game. After all it is their opinion and there is not a rule or law you can only form an opinion after X hours of gameplay. I say quit wining about someones opinion, and get over it. Your not going to agree with everyone in this world and that what makes this spaceship we call earth so awesome. It would be so boring if all of our likes dislikes and opinions were all the same.
Somebody made a "Eurogamer.net" guild ingame and sofar 3-400 guilds have declared war on them.... hahaha
Eurogamer has 0 clue about this game, the review is completly crap with 0 basis.
DFO is among the best MMORPGs ever released, Not made for everyone tho.
From the system chat...
Make sure you find out all their player names and kill them OVER and OVER and OVER again. Have people do 24 hour shifts to kill the reviewers players and never, ever help them in game for any reason! If they ask how to put a skill in the hotbar, merely call them name after name and rub it in their face how superior you are! That's what I'd suggest, they deserve it! Let them know what DF is REALLY all about and what they are missing!
Yes and then call the reviewers carebears and that they should go back to WoW, cuz they were deemed unworthy of reviewing their game and then they should use their l337 haxxing skillz to mess up their PC's and steal their CC info and sh*t. In fact from this moment on whoever will want the priviledge,nay, the honor of reviewing Darkfall must first take a plane go down to Athens pass through an oral interview at the HQ of Aventurine followed by a psychological profile,a series of physical tests, urine & stool sample and as a finale they will be chained to a wall by their left foot in a room with one of the people from those clans mentioned above also in there chained on the opposite wall of the other side of the room and the only thing that they'll be able to use to "saw" themselves free would be.......................... a herring !!!!!!
Whoever frees himself first and PWNS the other gains a place in the game !!! The loser was apparently too much of a carebear and thus will be dumped,nay, staked outside the building as a warning !!!!!!!!!
Somebody made a "Eurogamer.net" guild ingame and sofar 3-400 guilds have declared war on them.... hahaha
Eurogamer has 0 clue about this game, the review is completly crap with 0 basis.
DFO is among the best MMORPGs ever released, Not made for everyone tho.
From the system chat...
It does seems like Darkfall has a rather dedicated fan base. Or perhaps the correct word is fanatic, maybe even psychotic.
Maybe it is fear of having to shut down due to financial troubles that is making Tasos behave so irrational. A fear grounded in the what the Darkfall player base potentially would do to Aventurine emplyees if the game had to shut down. I think he fears for his life.
I think people - including Tasos - need to get real here. It's a pathetic state of affairs we have.
We live in an age where - for the large part - freedom of speech in these situations is a given. Freedom of opinion is something else that we have here. Reviewers and writers have every right to share their own opinion on a game, even if it is hateful. That is no reason to then go and start a public war with a company, just because they didn't say nice things about you.
Ed Zitron was probably overly harsh in his criticisms but - from his perspective - this is what the game is like and this is what his opinion is. Who is Tasos to then go and demand that the review be taken down because he doesn't agree with it? Fact is, if I were Eurogamer I would have told him where to stick it but they didn't. They said that they would stand by the review - just like any company would - but that they would have another review done by someone else. They gave Darkfall a chance to shine. However, this wasn't enough for Tasos. He went on to publically attack Eurogamer - something that they did not do to him - simply because they did not portray his game in a positive light.
The fact is plain: Eurogamer wrote a review that showed heaps of bias against Darkfall which Tasos took offence to. Instead of reacting to it like a reasonable and well tempered individual, he threw a hissy fit and started stamping his feet on the ground like a small child. If you go to a site like Eurogamer or IGN and expect each review to be neutral, you are a fool - plain and simple. Of course reviewers are going to show bias, some more than others. To claim this is wrong removes opinion and considering that this whole argument is based mostly on opinion... well... yeah.
Tasos accused Eurogamer of dishonesty and bias, things that he himself has demonstrated in the barrow full. Tasos - do you not remember all of the tall tails you told when you were developing your game? Do you not remember all of the (what were effectively) lies you told? How can you sit there and attack Eurogamer for doing something that is very similar to behaviour you have demonstrated in the past? The irony should not be lost on the more reasonable amongst us. If Eurogamer have done what Tasos has accused them of doing, they are no worse than he was (and is) and as such, it's a fair review based on the fact that it is a review written by someone who is just like the games lead developer.
The above also means that - until Tasos proves publically that what he says is true - I'm not going to believe a word the man says. It is strange that he is willing to state that the reviewer played for a little over 2 hours but has not provided the information from source.
From my perspective, this whole issue is just ridiculous. Someone gave an opinion and someone else had a hissy fit about it. We will see reviews come out for Darkfall over the next few months from bigger organisations such as IGN and I don't anticipate it getting much more than a 5-6. Of course, Tasos will reason that this is because these reviewers don't like or can't play this type of niche game but he really needs to grow the hell up. Tasos will shrug off any bad review with flawed reasoning and logic at all turns in the road and chastise anyone who reads them. He knows he has a rabid group of fans to hand, to wield on anyone and everyone who dislikes his game.
The man should learn the phrase, "water off a ducks back."
Comments
I don't know whats more funny, that guys review or Tasos's rant.
Quote:
"While other MMOs have relied on their players to fill in the content to an extent - Star Wars Galaxies being the most notable example - few have abused the sandbox mentality so readily as Aventurine. It's the emperor's new clothes of 2009: such a marvellous game that only an idiot wouldn't realise the beauty of the gaping holes in its content, its wonky control system, and its seemingly decade-old engine."
Wow he really had a bad experance in DF.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Really, these aren't single player console games? I must be in the wrong forum...
Look, many MMORPGs evolve and expand the more you progress, I get, agree and understand that. Yet, if in the first 9 hours, the game has not done it's job, and the intial mechanics and gameplay haven't left me with that feeling of, "Well, that was fun and refreshing, what else is there to do, and what else can I experience?", then I am probably not going to continue on, and will probably not recommend the game to anyone.
Tier one was a blast in Warhammer, you progressed, and then what happened? How far did you make it before continuing on, and experiencing all the game has to experience? Heck, maybe you have. Maybe you are still playing? Then again, maybe not. Maybe you experienced something you didn't like, you found things to be not really to your liking, and maybe you quit before experiencing everything the game had to offer (all of the races/classes/zones/etc.). Maybe this has happened in other MMO's you have tried as well, maybe not, but then again, some people have a higher tolerance for things they don't like than do others.
The point being, there comes a time when people can only play/watch/read something they don't connect with for so long, before realizing it's not for them, and choose to move on. If he enjoyed the game, or found some spark that connected to him, then maybe he would have continued and seen the "diamond in the rough"...but obviously it didn't connect, and it doesn't connect with everyone. To my understanding, at least what I gather from the fanboys, Tasos and crew wanted a niche game. A game that would cater to the tastes of a small cross section of the gaming community, so honestly, bad reviews should come as no surprise, they are after all not out to please everyone, right? They should be happy with their niche, why should they care what a major website has to say about them? "Niche" games aren't meant to appeal to everyone.
He evolved and progressed as much as his tolerance would allow, and found the game lacking. His opinion. It is what it is.
The reason why I mentioned that these are not single player games but rather mmorpgs is because I noticed the common mistake that many review sites and companies make, and that is rating an mmorpg like they would a single player game.
But I will agree with what you said. People can only play/watch/read so much. Some people just cannot connect with something. BUT, they shouldn't be writing a review for said thing. I couldn't get past level 7 in final fantasy 11 and quit my first month. I talked about my early and limited experience but did not RATE the game based on my week of gameplay.
Honestly, this eurogamer reviewer isn't just an average mmorpg.com user who post his opinion, he is a reviewer for a major website. He needs to play the game to the fullest, because thats his task. If I was writing a book review, should I just base it on the first 100 pages...because thats all I could tolerate? I hope you can see my point and see why this eurogamer review is wrong and incomplete.
Do you not understand how reviews work? By what you are saying, you want a reviewed to spend at LEAST a specified time within an MMO before his/her review is deemed "credible." If that were the case, you are asking the reviewer to play the game for MONTHS or YEARS as a prerequisite to write a REVIEW (i.e. their OPINION) on the game. That is not only unreasonable, but frankly absurd.
Second, most magazines/reviewers go back to MMOs after periods of time to review the game after a period has passed to see where it's headed.
And your analogy to a book doesn't work because books have beginning, middles and ends whereas an MMO is ever-evolving.
And really, what gives you the right to redefine what a "review" is or should be? If you don't like it move along. I played DF when it launched and I agree with the feeling of the review...the game is an unpolished, grueling bore with simply, bugged boring combat where there is NOTHING to do outside of ganking.
A metacritic average would be great, if it existed. This underscores my original points about Tasos' response to the review. In Tasos' original response to the Eurogamer review, he said: "Darkfall’s reviews so far have been mostly good ones". As I said before, what reviews? Look at metacritic's rating for Darkfall. There's only one published review and its the one from Eurogamer! Why? Because nobody else had published a review yet! There have been blogger reviews, like Paragus1's and Keen's, but no site/magazine published reviews. Tasos said Aventurine provided Eurogamer with two accounts. Have they provided accounts to other reviewers? If so, where are the reviews? There was supposed to be press beta, but that never materialized. According to Tasos, he did several interviews prior to the launch, but those never materialized, either. One or two did, but that's not "several".
By limiting access to the game to all but the most die-hard fans or the most incredibly lucky, you have a greater likelihood of getting positive reviews. Open it up to public scrutiny and you can't control what's written about it.
~Ripper
Can you provide anything apart from your unsubstantiated view? At least Tasos cook up the idea of server logs.
What do you have? Just your empty words? Trying to flame and insult at once, trying to bring in WoW, hoping anti-WoW sentiments will give your side some benefits? What other tricks can you come up with?
Carebear, retarded .... name calling maybe? What else?
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
In the guild I have been since AoC from which we moved to WAR and then to DF we have 68 players and of those 1 quit because he got a child, 3 didn't like the game who sold the account to another guildie who are now having a lot of fun in game.
Game is not for everyone that I agree with but 2/10 is just a review written by a serious troll because the game is not bad once you understand the mechanics which are excellent.
You don't get it I do understand that - I really liked WoW for 3 years until TBC came out and then quit.
I really liked UO when it came out until they carebeared it.
I just like DF... For now, and when it's time to move on I will move on to the next game with my guild, but many of my guildies agree that this is the best PVP experience they have ever had.
So because someone really dislikes DF, their opinion doesnt count? Ive played a few MMOs that deserved a 2/10. Some people love bleu cheese, I personally think it tastes and smells terrible. Does that make me wrong? Nope, its just how I feel about it. The guys vehemence about his dislike of DF makes me think its as bad as a lot of people say. And thats his opinion. I would honestly be suprised if a single gaming site out there gave it a 5/10.
Factor in those snotty elitist fans, and Id give it a .0000000000001/10
Well, you just proved my point.
Opinion is an opinion.
Review is not an opinion, it's review.
See, look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review
You're citing wikipedia as a source? That's funny considering it's all user-defined and takes little or no credentials to write there. Why not cite an actual dictionary like the OED?
Look, here's a definition from Merriam-Webster:
Reviewing: to give a critiical evaluation of.
Evaluate: determine the significance, worth, or condition of usually by careful appraisal and study.
By those definitions, I argue that the reviewer successfully met the criteria.
Drive by linking --------
http://syncaine.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/that-awesome-df-review-it-gets-better/
Ha! Good one!
John Romero is gonna make you his b*tch!
The EuroGamer review is SPOT ON ...!
It doesn't matter one bit, that their reviewers may have only played a limited time..! You don't need too much time in Darkfall to know thatn the UI is piss-poor and extremly ill thought out or to see the lack of quality and the shabby framework.
Everything they mention is true and it's what 99% of beta testers said and almost what anyone who was handed the game today would say. The ONLY people who like this game are newbies, who have limited gamming experience.
Tasos remarks are laughable... what did he want them to say..? Lie? EVERYONE who was in beta told Aventurine about how crude and redumentary Darkfall was/is. Tasos kept lying to us all and kept saying everything was turned off, etc. Now that the game is out, he cannot hide behind lies anymore.!!
If Tasos Flambouras has beef with an honest review, then perhaps he needs to stop lying to himself and the community and learn to deal with R E A L I T Y.... ..!
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
Not worried! If he has something to prove, then by all means, open a deebate thread and challenge me. Any points he make can easily be disproven through logic and some 22 other MMORPG I can call upon for reference.
Battfield Heroes is a FREE TO PLAY online FPS game (currently in beta) that has 3 classes... that game has more playability and diversity than Darkfall. It has more depth aswell.
So you wanted the reviewer to play more and get that score down to 1/10? If the reviewer had played longer they might have had an issue that required them to contact AV technical support. And we all know how much higher that would have boosted the reviewer's score.
i find it funny you guys want him to spend 100 hours of play time to review it. That's an entire Bioware RPG. I don't see where he comment about things he did not experienced.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
What is unprofessional, is releasing a review that has no basis in reality - and then make it a slamming review.
If you are so sure of yourself and you position, then dabate me on a feature by feature basis. I will easily illustrate/prove that Darkfall is outdated, broken and easily one of the worse MMORPG ever made.
FACT!
Get prepared to get blocked=)
You don't love DFO, and that is his secret weapon against the critics...
The funny thing is I didn't flame DF when he blocked me, I merely pointed out people should avoid arguing with him. Then I went on to say let Metacritic decide DF's fate and not this one review, which is obviously a little harsh. He'll block anything that mentions anything about DF at this point. Makes me laugh that he thinks blocking us has any effect on... anything. And we all know he is going to read our posts anyways and then shake his fists in anger at the monitor because he knows if he responds he'll look even worse.
In any case, once the new review is done and if anyone else is brave enough to review it, an average will come. I assume it will be around a 5, based on my own opinions. It's just funny, the game was 'released' almost 2 and a half months ago... 1 professional review... say anything? You be the judge.
Wtf are you talking about, we can plainly see the facts here: a "hater" took a hold of a game, an editorial review not an employee of the website and trashed it.
Eurogamer must now make mends and take care of their own faliures.
Facts? How can you claim to have facts? You simply have two arguing parties who both claim to have facts. For all I know the eurogamer reviewer did as the devs said, then again he may well be telling the truth and the dev's lieing. You're just being a "hater" yourself by blindly picking a side in the argument just because you like darkfall without actually having any real knowledge of what happened.
I personally do NOT like darkfall. I have NOT tried darkfall. I have however watched videos of it, and have infact TRIED to try out darkfall. Going on the information I have:
The videos - all of which make darkfall look awful
Reviews from people I trust who have tried it
The general design of the game
And the fact that I can confirm what eurogamer said, that it is really hard to actually find where to subscribe to the game (why I havn't tried it). It is like they are trying their best to fail here.
On that, I am leaning towards beleiving the reviewers more, however, unlike the majority of people here I havn't made my mind up totally yet, and am not going to start throwing out insults at people, and making assumptions on something that there is no real evidence from either side on.
------------------------------
Wtf are you talking about, we can plainly see the facts here: a "hater" took a hold of a game, an editorial review not an employee of the website and trashed it.
Eurogamer must now make mends and take care of their own faliures.
Facts? How can you claim to have facts? You simply have two arguing parties who both claim to have facts. For all I know the eurogamer reviewer did as the devs said, then again he may well be telling the truth and the dev's lieing. You're just being a "hater" yourself by blindly picking a side in the argument just because you like darkfall without actually having any real knowledge of what happened.
I personally do NOT like darkfall. I have NOT tried darkfall. I have however watched videos of it, and have infact TRIED to try out darkfall. Going on the information I have:
The videos - all of which make darkfall look awful
Reviews from people I trust who have tried it
The general design of the game
And the fact that I can confirm what eurogamer said, that it is really hard to actually find where to subscribe to the game (why I havn't tried it). It is like they are trying their best to fail here.
On that, I am leaning towards beleiving the reviewers more, however, unlike the majority of people here I havn't made my mind up totally yet, and am not going to start throwing out insults at people, and making assumptions on something that there is no real evidence from either side on.
Einstein-DF has lost his credibility long ago and no one really cares about what he says other than for entretainment purposes, so just let him be.
Yes, obviously.
If you don't believe me, then go through the posts, and you can see Im clearly better at arguing. If you can make such a judgement, that is. Otherwise you need to get someone good at rhetorics to help you.
The only one that this is obvious to is yourself. For everyone else here you're just a joke. For example, you said that you have played games for 32 years yet your age specified here is under 30.
So either you are a liar, like your idol Tasos, or you are referring to gaming done in a previous life.
My gaming blog
Somebody made a "Eurogamer.net" guild ingame and sofar 3-400 guilds have declared war on them.... hahaha
Eurogamer has 0 clue about this game, the review is completly crap with 0 basis.
DFO is among the best MMORPGs ever released, Not made for everyone tho.
From the system chat...
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
From the system chat...
nerdrage at its finest.
From the system chat...
Make sure you find out all their player names and kill them OVER and OVER and OVER again. Have people do 24 hour shifts to kill the reviewers players and never, ever help them in game for any reason! If they ask how to put a skill in the hotbar, merely call them name after name and rub it in their face how superior you are! That's what I'd suggest, they deserve it! Let them know what DF is REALLY all about and what they are missing!
Has anyone thought that maybe those 2 hours were so horrid to them that they couldn't bare to even log in? LOL thats happened to me before. I tried COX and played for a bout 30 minutes and I uninstalled it because the game didn't appeal to me at all. LOL a waste of 10 bucks in 30 minutes damn, If the game doesn't make a good first impression chances are it won't later on.
They do reviews and just because they played 2 hours doesn't mean they can't form an opinion of the game. After all it is their opinion and there is not a rule or law you can only form an opinion after X hours of gameplay. I say quit wining about someones opinion, and get over it. Your not going to agree with everyone in this world and that what makes this spaceship we call earth so awesome. It would be so boring if all of our likes dislikes and opinions were all the same.
From the system chat...
Make sure you find out all their player names and kill them OVER and OVER and OVER again. Have people do 24 hour shifts to kill the reviewers players and never, ever help them in game for any reason! If they ask how to put a skill in the hotbar, merely call them name after name and rub it in their face how superior you are! That's what I'd suggest, they deserve it! Let them know what DF is REALLY all about and what they are missing!
Yes and then call the reviewers carebears and that they should go back to WoW, cuz they were deemed unworthy of reviewing their game and then they should use their l337 haxxing skillz to mess up their PC's and steal their CC info and sh*t. In fact from this moment on whoever will want the priviledge,nay, the honor of reviewing Darkfall must first take a plane go down to Athens pass through an oral interview at the HQ of Aventurine followed by a psychological profile,a series of physical tests, urine & stool sample and as a finale they will be chained to a wall by their left foot in a room with one of the people from those clans mentioned above also in there chained on the opposite wall of the other side of the room and the only thing that they'll be able to use to "saw" themselves free would be.......................... a herring !!!!!!
Whoever frees himself first and PWNS the other gains a place in the game !!! The loser was apparently too much of a carebear and thus will be dumped,nay, staked outside the building as a warning !!!!!!!!!
/ Sarcasm just in case somebody missed it
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
From the system chat...
/facepalm
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
From the system chat...
It does seems like Darkfall has a rather dedicated fan base. Or perhaps the correct word is fanatic, maybe even psychotic.
Maybe it is fear of having to shut down due to financial troubles that is making Tasos behave so irrational. A fear grounded in the what the Darkfall player base potentially would do to Aventurine emplyees if the game had to shut down. I think he fears for his life.
I think people - including Tasos - need to get real here. It's a pathetic state of affairs we have.
We live in an age where - for the large part - freedom of speech in these situations is a given. Freedom of opinion is something else that we have here. Reviewers and writers have every right to share their own opinion on a game, even if it is hateful. That is no reason to then go and start a public war with a company, just because they didn't say nice things about you.
Ed Zitron was probably overly harsh in his criticisms but - from his perspective - this is what the game is like and this is what his opinion is. Who is Tasos to then go and demand that the review be taken down because he doesn't agree with it? Fact is, if I were Eurogamer I would have told him where to stick it but they didn't. They said that they would stand by the review - just like any company would - but that they would have another review done by someone else. They gave Darkfall a chance to shine. However, this wasn't enough for Tasos. He went on to publically attack Eurogamer - something that they did not do to him - simply because they did not portray his game in a positive light.
The fact is plain: Eurogamer wrote a review that showed heaps of bias against Darkfall which Tasos took offence to. Instead of reacting to it like a reasonable and well tempered individual, he threw a hissy fit and started stamping his feet on the ground like a small child. If you go to a site like Eurogamer or IGN and expect each review to be neutral, you are a fool - plain and simple. Of course reviewers are going to show bias, some more than others. To claim this is wrong removes opinion and considering that this whole argument is based mostly on opinion... well... yeah.
Tasos accused Eurogamer of dishonesty and bias, things that he himself has demonstrated in the barrow full. Tasos - do you not remember all of the tall tails you told when you were developing your game? Do you not remember all of the (what were effectively) lies you told? How can you sit there and attack Eurogamer for doing something that is very similar to behaviour you have demonstrated in the past? The irony should not be lost on the more reasonable amongst us. If Eurogamer have done what Tasos has accused them of doing, they are no worse than he was (and is) and as such, it's a fair review based on the fact that it is a review written by someone who is just like the games lead developer.
The above also means that - until Tasos proves publically that what he says is true - I'm not going to believe a word the man says. It is strange that he is willing to state that the reviewer played for a little over 2 hours but has not provided the information from source.
From my perspective, this whole issue is just ridiculous. Someone gave an opinion and someone else had a hissy fit about it. We will see reviews come out for Darkfall over the next few months from bigger organisations such as IGN and I don't anticipate it getting much more than a 5-6. Of course, Tasos will reason that this is because these reviewers don't like or can't play this type of niche game but he really needs to grow the hell up. Tasos will shrug off any bad review with flawed reasoning and logic at all turns in the road and chastise anyone who reads them. He knows he has a rabid group of fans to hand, to wield on anyone and everyone who dislikes his game.
The man should learn the phrase, "water off a ducks back."
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!