We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make. I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented.
It doesn't really matter if players like you can or cannot figure it out. We'll keep pushing our agenda till a gaming company finally gives us what we want. Just like groupers have an agenda and raiders have an agenda, all of which are just as vocal on these and official forums about getting content that caters to them.
You have got what you guys want post-wow solo centric games. they have all been aimed at the casual player. The casual players eat these games up and then move to the next big MMO. MMO's are now treated like console games. Play for awhile and move on. There not made to last anymore. I still have in FFXIV that it wont completly go for the money grub attempt.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
An mmo exclusive to the PS3, according to Sony. Don't see any info pertaining to it being an MMO, but just an online game. Doesn't sound so promising if they are limiting an online game to one device.
Correct...I will not be playing it unless they release it on the PC.
You like to raid, so you raid and get nicely rewarded for it. I like to solo, but I don't get nicely rewarded for it. Raiders / Groupers get more content, more rewards, better quality content. LIke it or not, soloers / small groupers are a significant portion of any player base and we deserve to have our play styles treated with the same respect and quality afforded to full groups and raids. No one likes feeling second class, especially in a piece of entertainment software.
There should be similar rewards based on the time and difficulty involved.
But a tough battle that requres an entire *group* of people to take down should give unique rewards that cannot be obtained by a solo person fighting by themself. It de-values the reward of the group-centric fight and makes people think "why bother fighting in a group if I can get the same quality gear by myself".
I think it's a question of attitude more than anything.
Say there are two good pieces of gear in a game...
- One is obtainable by me entirely through soloing
- The other is obtainable only by joining a large group, fighting through a large dungeon and taking down a very powerful raid boss at the end... this piece is superior to the item available through soloing.
As good as that raid-level reward is, I don't have the inclination or desire to get involved in a raid group. I say, "Okay, well, it'd be a nice piece to have, but it requires a playstyle that I'm not interested in, so I'll do without and get the best thing I can acquire while playing the way I want to."
I make those decisions all the time in FFXI.
I'm playing FFXI since it launched in the US... You know what the greatest piece of gear I've ever gotten is? Ochimusha Kotes.. I camped Mee Deggi The Punisher and got lucky.. it dropped on my third kill, with a ~5% drop rate.
The next best piece? Brown Belt, which was quested for, but still well earned (getting those NMs can be a pain)
Other than that, I've gotten my Dragoon relic leggings during a run in Dynamis, which I seldom do and got really lucky that no one else needed them.
Anyone who's played XI will tell you that I haven't gotten anywhere *near* the best gear in the game. Has that affected my enjoyment of the game? Not a tad. I love FFXI. The experiences I've had, the memories I've collected, and the people I've met in my time playing it by far outshine any piece of gear I could ever acquire. And besides, should I ever decide I want some of that better gear... it's there for the earning. All I need to do is commit to putting forth the effort to get it.
I simply accept that my playstyle isn't conducive to getting the best stuff... and I'm fine with that.
I believe that every piece of gear should not be available to every player. Those people willing to put in the extra time and effort to get a superior piece of gear *should* get it. Those who aren't, shouldn't.
I love the idea that relic weapons in FFXI require a *lot* of time and a *lot* of money to full upgrade and unlock. I admire the persistence of those who acquire them. I don't feel it's "unfair" that they got them and I didn't.. I wasn't willing to put in the time or effort... They were. They deserve them. I don't. Period. I'm congratulatory of people who acquire pieces of gear I will probably never get... I'm not jealous of them.
Given what I've described of my achievements in FFXI, I think I can say that I'm not at all hypocritical in my point-of-view.
And in that light, I think many people who say a game should be "enjoyable by everyone" really selfishly mean "everyone who thinks like they do", because if you want a game that can appeal to a wide variety of players, then you have to accept that those willing to do more or try harder than you to achieve a superior reward are also part of that group.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You like to raid, so you raid and get nicely rewarded for it. I like to solo, but I don't get nicely rewarded for it. Raiders / Groupers get more content, more rewards, better quality content. LIke it or not, soloers / small groupers are a significant portion of any player base and we deserve to have our play styles treated with the same respect and quality afforded to full groups and raids. No one likes feeling second class, especially in a piece of entertainment software.
There should be similar rewards based on the time and difficulty involved.
But a tough battle that requres an entire *group* of people to take down should give unique rewards that cannot be obtained by a solo person fighting by themself. It de-values the reward of the group-centric fight and makes people think "why bother fighting in a group if I can get the same quality gear by myself".
I think it's a question of attitude more than anything.
Say there are two good pieces of gear in a game...
- One is obtainable by me entirely through soloing
- The other is obtainable only by joining a large group, fighting through a large dungeon and taking down a very powerful raid boss at the end... this piece is superior to the item available through soloing.
As good as that raid-level reward is, I don't have the inclination or desire to get involved in a raid group. I say, "Okay, well, it'd be a nice piece to have, but it requires a playstyle that I'm not interested in, so I'll do without and get the best thing I can acquire while playing the way I want to."
I make those decisions all the time in FFXI.
I'm playing FFXI since it launched in the US... You know what the greatest piece of gear I've ever gotten is? Ochimusha Kotes.. I camped Mee Deggi The Punisher and got lucky.. it dropped on my third kill.
The next best piece? Brown Belt, which was quested for.
Other than that, I've gotten my Dragoon relic leggings during a run in Dynamis, which I seldom do and got really lucky that no one else needed them.
Anyone who's played XI will tell you that I haven't gotten anywhere *near* the best gear in the game. Has that affected my enjoyment of the game? Not a tad. I love FFXI. The experiences I've had, the memories I've collected, and the people I've met in my time playing it by far outshine any piece of gear I could ever acquire.
I simply accept that my playstyle isn't conducive to getting the best drops... and I'm fine with that.
I believe that every piece of gear should not be available to every player. Those people willing to put in the extra time and effort to get a superior piece of gear *should* get it. Those who aren't, shouldn't.
I love the idea that relic weapons in FFXI require a *lot* of time and a *lot* of money to full upgrade and unlock. I admire the persistence of those who acquire them. I don't feel it's "unfair" that they got them and I didn't.. I wasn't willing to put in the time or effort... They were. They deserve them. I don't. Period. I'm congratulatory of people who acquire pieces of gear I will probably never get... I'm not jealous of them.
Given what I've described of my achievements in FFXI, I think I can say that I'm not at all hypocritical in my point-of-view.
Great post. I too played FFXI for many years and my experiences are similar to yours.
It's funny, the more I play solo-centric MMOs, the more I feel that sitting around for a couple hours waiting for a group invite isn't such a bad thing. FFXI group dynamics are like nothing I have experienced elsewhere. I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but the requirement to group up and form parties to gain levels appeals to me.
OP: I don't think FFXIV will be oldschool. Like FFXI, it'll be in a league of its own.
And I think alot of people who say they "want a solo optioned game" really don't know what they want. They have play'd game like WOW and EVE, and the grouping has left a bad tast in there mouth, because they havn't experienced a real true group game, with a good comunity. I think I speak for alot of people who have play'd FFXI when i say, it is one of a kind. So why did I say all of that? I have no idea. bored at work I suppose.
Excuse me but I know exactly what I want BECAUSE I have played games like FFXI and EVE (shudders) and WoW, Ryzom, Vanguard, Eq2 and name it I've played it.
Yes FFXI is an excellent game and one of kind, but that doesn't negate it's flaws.
I don't think you understand where optional soloists come from. Let me ask you how old are you? Are you married, or in a long term relationship? Do you have a job, or maybe two jobs? Do you have children? Or other family members or responsibilities in life that require your time?
I'm 20 years old, I got married 4 months ago. and I work for my fathers security company as a forman. Putting in 40-50 hours a week. And on the weekends I don't game because I am (most of the time) busy with friends. Which leaves me around 3-4 hours 5 days a week to game. So yes I have a busy schedule, and yes I do make time for gaming, and yes I can enjoy "time sinks" such as FFXI.
And No my wife doesn't game (well least not MMO's, she's been known to play halo a little)
We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make. I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm not asking for a simple easy peasy game either, make the difference, I enjoy challenge but it better be worth my time. There's plenty of instances in the old game where it just wasn't worth it and reached a point where it sucked all the fun out of the game.
since you refuse to see anything besides your narrow view.
Oh I see the the other side of the spectrum. Where I get lost is that every single new MMO game that gets announced all the boards are all identical (that is if its a PvE game). They all want the same exact thing time in and time out. They want a challenge but they want it casual friendly, they want the best of both worlds and that is un-reasonable and un-realist. The fact is challenges take effort and time, if it didnt it wouldnt be a challenege. The cold truth is that one guy hit the nail on the head when he said people dont know what they want in an MMO. They want things that contradict each other, that just proves his point.
Yeah, I notice that contradiction a lot, too, and agree that that's a core problem with many people... They want something that isn't feasible.
They want challenging gameplay... that's soloable.
They want epic, raid-level boss battles... that are soloable (I've seen more and more demands for this)
They want a MMO with a huge population... that they can solo exclusively in.
They want challenging quests beyond just "kill x of y"... that can be solo'd.
Basically.. they want a single player game with other people around. It might sound like an over-simplification, but when you read the desires and demands of many people across various different forums for different games.. that's kinda what it sounds like. The concept of an epic raid battle being soloable itself is just ridiculous. It's not a "raid" if it's a solo fight. It then simply becomes a really difficult but soloable boss encounter.
This doesn't apply to those who like grouping but also like to solo at times (even I fit that category). This pertains to those who regard the very idea of grouping, at all, ever, for any reason, under any conditions, like kryptonite to Superman.
And thats exactly what i'm saying. I'm not against a game that you can hope on to for 40 minutes and solo some mobs for XP. But what I don't like are games that are just to easy, example: WOW you can serously solo level from 1-70 in a matter of a month with only playing 4 days a week for 4 hours a day ( I know because I did it). That to me is a "solo" game. A groupe game with the option to solo would be FFXI. (Call me crazy) But there where many a time when I couldn't get a group in the dunes, or I was waiting for a groupe so i'd go solo. And most of the time if I worked hard I could level in about 1.5 hours. (granted this was before level 20...)
Basically.. they want a single player game with other people around. It might sound like an over-simplification, but when you read the desires and demands of many people across various different forums for different games.. that's kinda what it sounds like. The concept of an epic raid battle being soloable itself is just ridiculous. It's not a "raid" if it's a solo fight. It then simply becomes a really difficult but soloable boss encounter.
Who are those people? I don't think I've met them yet.
I'm starting to think that whenever someone says, can it be possible to solo (via one certain class or something similar) people equate that with please give me everything on a silver plater so I don't have too much effort for the rewards. That's not it.
Maybe you guys are talking about how Blizzard keeps making things ever easier in their game, which in a lot of cases is a real shame like the last dungeon patch can't remember which raid it was but it was made a lot easier.... I don't agree with that, adding smaller group raids sure, but don't change what's already there into easy mode that cheats your new players of the experience imo anyway.
But mostly people who do things slower and/or chooses to solo already know it will take them longer to reach their goals and that's something we're ok with. Maybe it's the devs that misinterpret what players want and piss everyone off.
Also denying a different way (but no less challenging) to get a certain reward for people who play differently is just plain selfish in my view also. But I don't fear on that end because FFXI already has that in place, where it's possible to get your J boots in different ways. (It's j boots right?)
I've met plenty.
I'm fine with the idea of having some soloable content in a MMO. Like I said, I fit that category as well.
However, there's a group (and it's not a majority, luckily.. but growing), that want the entire game to be soloable and find grouping for any reason to be the worst thing they can imagine.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The problem is your logic. In none of these games are you forced to solo. You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only. Groupers are never denied any content, ever, 100% of any game can be played in groups. Soloers may have content, usually below 50%, but most of it sucks and most of it is unrewarding, making it content not worth doing in the first place. Whatever though, this argument doesn't apply to this game, there will NEVER be an Asian based game that is solo friendly for even 25% of the content, let alone 100%.
Won't keep me from voicing my opinion till some company decides to seriously cater to it.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
The problem is your logic. In none of these games are you forced to solo. You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only. Groupers are never denied any content, ever, 100% of any game can be played in groups. Soloers may have content, usually below 50%, but most of it sucks and most of it is unrewarding, making it content not worth doing in the first place. Whatever though, this argument doesn't apply to this game, there will NEVER be an Asian based game that is solo friendly for even 25% of the content, let alone 100%. Won't keep me from voicing my opinion till some company decides to seriously cater to it.
In some ways I sympathize with the solo mindset because frankly some games have a community where the people are most definantly not worth playing with. And you are right about most games being party orientated. Chances are there will never be a true Solo game, more or less because they are generally on consoles without online content and are called just rpg's. Not trying to attack you, just pointing out that the MMO does stand for M-Multiplayer-O. It kind of goes with that mindset that parties would have a role in it.
Though with changing trends you can never tell if a true Solo game might come out, though I tend to think it will be ultimately more PvP rather than PvE.
People playing online games so they can spend time in-game with other players makes sense to me.
People playing online games so they can be alone and go through solo content makes no sense to me.
However, I think having the option to do either (so people can do some stuff on their own after playing or competing with others) is very important. This way, raid members can occasionally catch some breath, and soloers can still show other players their awesome (solo) achievements once in a while.
WoW allows people to hit max level playing by themselves, and allows players to finish instances together. These things are not mutually exclusive, and FFXI had some problems with the first part. Fixing those problems does not mean FFXIV will not be a good game for alliance-lovers.
The problem is your logic. In none of these games are you forced to solo. You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only.
Ahh but see your looking at it from a solo'ers stand point. You can team up if you can find people that want to team up. The problem is they only want team up if the need to run a dungon for loot or if there is something they need. Its next to impossible to make a group to level in solo based game. In a quest driven MMO grouping is actually harder because your constantly having to make sure everyones on same quest and blah blah blah. If you can overcome that and decide to just go mob grind then your missing all your quest rewards making it harder. thus people just solo grind quests, because its the least path of resistance. Gamers in general will always take the easies path. Ill be honest I am not going to make things harder on myself, I will do my best to just grind my way by it fast as possible.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Any of you guys that have short time spans to play in (I am in this boat a lot too these days) try Warhammer's Public Quest system? I have been able to jump in the game for about an hour and get a little boss killed in Public Quest really easy. I think the key to this success of finding groups is because they did something similar to Everquest (Maybe not intentionally, or maybe they did). In EQ there wasn't really quest you did for xp so everyone was free to do what they wanted and that means it was easy to group up at certain spots of your level because people wasn't constantly on different quest.
In Warhammer these Public Quest feel like that where you just walk into the area and you are in a Public Quest. People do them because they have nice rewards and it is repeatable. It rarely takes me over five minutes to find which Public Quest people are doing of my level in Warhammer and I am joined in the fun.
I also think developers such as WoW have seen that some people do not have as much time to devote to a game play session and have went to great lengths to shorten instance raids and instance group dungeons into a very reasonable play session time. Most dungeons/raids can be completed in a little over an hour. If you have less time you still can do that. Pick up groups are very commonly doing these instances in WoW now and it takes very little time to get in one. WoW and other games have went to great lengths to get their dungeon content accessible for quicker gameplay sessions but that can only be taken so far. I still suppose they could add a few onyxia single bosses for groups .. or raids to do in aproximately 30 min time frame. That would be a quick game play session if you really do not have very much time to game at all. At that point your life is so busy are you really getting your money's worth playing an online game?
If you playstyle is less than 30 minutes a day I have to ask are you really playing in the correct genre? Not to be mean, but these games you most likely will at least an hour to do something fun. When I am pushed for time and maybe only can game for 20 -30min I usually play some games designed for short game play. Games are very accessible now even for folks with short game play session time constraints. Like I said though if you life is so busy that you can't play about 20min - 30mins a day or even less, MMORPGs would be hard to justify playing. It would be a waste of money. First person shooters are nice if you only have a quick 30mins though. That is a away to get some online fun if you are really pressed for time.
Solo players don't play alone...... For example in EQ2 I spent a lot of time on my own, but there's a lot you can do to contribute to the health of your guild like grinding points, or making crafts for yourself and people who need something. Being in a guild means you can chat with the people you choose to spend time with while doing whatever, it means you can schedule events, raids, dungeons and attend those. Someone needs a hand with something maybe you'll be glad to tag along.
Choosing to level solo does not automatically mean we refuse to socialize or group up with a random pug to kill the same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance.
Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.
/sigh >.> Solo players don't play alone...... For example in EQ2 I spent a lot of time on my own, but there's a lot you can do to contribute to the health of your guild like grinding points, or making crafts for yourself and people who need something. Being in a guild means you can chat with the people you choose to spend time with while doing whatever, it means you can schedule events, raids, dungeons and attend those. Someone needs a hand with something maybe you'll be glad to tag along. Choosing to level solo does not automatically mean we refuse to socialize or group up with a random pug to kill the same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance. Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.
<giggles> Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^
I'd just like to say, when I played FFXI (I played awhile ago before these new patches...level sync, etc. which by the way sound like good ideas) I never had much gripe about the grouping situation. You put your flag up and go do something productive like mine, or craft or hunt NMs. If you don't get an invite in a reasonable amount of time form your own group, it was as easy as that.
As far as raiding content...I never got that far and I loved the game regardless! It was fun for me partying and leveling up and doing all the quests and such. I don't understand why it has to be about getting the best gear and all that stuff. If you don't have time to devote to getting all the best gear just enjoy the game for what it is...enjoy the journey, take your time!
That being said, ideally in an MMO I would give more xp/rewards for grouping (leveling wise) and make soloing possible, with a decent xp rate if you can't find a group or don't have time to group (these seem to be the primary complaints about not wanting to group). But honestly, these games are MMORPGs. Grouping, logically, would be the primary tool for progression in such a game according to the acronym. Don't get me wrong, there should be some solo content, but it shouldn't be created as an alternate playing style IMO, it should be just something to do when you don't want to group or don't have time to do group content.
Voodoo Extreme just called it an "action-based massively multiplayer role-playing". That doesn't sound very old-school to me. I wouldn't call FFXI "action-based" so that means its something different.
The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control
I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.
When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.
Voodoo Extreme just called it an "action-based massively multiplayer role-playing". That doesn't sound very old-school to me. I wouldn't call FFXI "action-based" so that means its something different.
The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control
I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.
When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.
I agree FFXI had my favorite combat system there was always something going on in a battle.
We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make. I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
You have a good point there Mike, also if you don't have that much time to play you can always make time...... I don't ever watch TV so that frees up time. OR if your married get your wife or husband to play too you can still spend time with them and even RP in the game. Ive known a few couples that played FFXI.
IM single so the only other things that get in the way for my video game time is work and guitar. Which ive been doing both more of because I haven't found a good game to play....... I've been thinking of starting FFXI back up again, I just wish some real life friends woud start to play again.
When I first started I knew at least 10 people in RL that played it now nobody I know plays it . They all quit to play WoW and other games.
Thing is doesn't matter what we could or could not put up with in FFXI, this new game won't be FFXI and it won't play like FFXI.
It won't be or play like WoW either. It's going to be it's own thing and that's something to be really excited about, and as for people not understanding the insta hype it's because of their track record if you love and play most FF's you can predict what you will get in more then a few areas.
Square Enix is always at the top of the game, even though some of their ventures a few years ago didn't go so well, FF14 won't be rehashed mechanics from FF11.
So anyway in conclusion and from looking at Dreams in Vana'diel and Zam forums it's pretty unanimous, people want a fresh new online game with a better progression (not just leveling) but no WoW copies or SE is going to have riots on their hands.
same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance. Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.
<giggles> Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^
We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make. I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF. To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs. I know I haven't. They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.
I'm honestly not sure what your point is here. I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play". Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially. Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.
We have very similar gaming styles WSIMike, I agree with every post you make. I dislike the solo mentality in MMO's it makes no sense. If I wanted to play solo I will play a console game. Or a single player PC game. I just cant figure out why so many love the solo idea. MMO's are just a single player game with a chat box now. We will have to see but if FFXIV caters to this it will most likely be my last MMO. This was my last hope for an MMO to provide me with a new challenge. Not all hope is lost solo play can envolve alot of things and the main game can still be group oriented.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF. To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs. I know I haven't. They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.
I'm honestly not sure what your point is here. I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play". Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially. Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.
Point taken.
When I first read your post, I took it in the context of "people with busy lives can't enjoy FFXI outside of casual activities" (for lack of a better way of putting it... generally speaking).
And I know that isn't necessarily the case. And, saying my friend is the exception may be so... but that's not really the point of my pointing him (and again, others I've known) out. The point is, if you set realistic goals and stick with it, you don't *have* to limit your play time to only "casual friendly" activities. You *can* experience more of FFXI on a limited schedule.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I get the impression that knowing your job and doing it well just won't be as critical in this new game. I never played FFXI but that aspect of it seemed like one of the strongest features of the game.
Guys, I'm sorry to say this... "the heavy team-play aspect of FF11 has been deemphasized" I get the impression that knowing your job and doing it well just won't be as critical in this new game. I never played FFXI but that aspect of it seemed like one of the strongest features of the game.
Premature statement. I don't think that will be the case at all. Look at the logo, SE says there's hidden meaning there, well not so hidden all characters are in a circle back to back with weapons on the outside. it's meant to symbolize group play and the importance of alliances and friends.
Comments
It doesn't really matter if players like you can or cannot figure it out. We'll keep pushing our agenda till a gaming company finally gives us what we want. Just like groupers have an agenda and raiders have an agenda, all of which are just as vocal on these and official forums about getting content that caters to them.
You have got what you guys want post-wow solo centric games. they have all been aimed at the casual player. The casual players eat these games up and then move to the next big MMO. MMO's are now treated like console games. Play for awhile and move on. There not made to last anymore. I still have in FFXIV that it wont completly go for the money grub attempt.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Correct...I will not be playing it unless they release it on the PC.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174536
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
There should be similar rewards based on the time and difficulty involved.
But a tough battle that requres an entire *group* of people to take down should give unique rewards that cannot be obtained by a solo person fighting by themself. It de-values the reward of the group-centric fight and makes people think "why bother fighting in a group if I can get the same quality gear by myself".
I think it's a question of attitude more than anything.
Say there are two good pieces of gear in a game...
- One is obtainable by me entirely through soloing
- The other is obtainable only by joining a large group, fighting through a large dungeon and taking down a very powerful raid boss at the end... this piece is superior to the item available through soloing.
As good as that raid-level reward is, I don't have the inclination or desire to get involved in a raid group. I say, "Okay, well, it'd be a nice piece to have, but it requires a playstyle that I'm not interested in, so I'll do without and get the best thing I can acquire while playing the way I want to."
I make those decisions all the time in FFXI.
I'm playing FFXI since it launched in the US... You know what the greatest piece of gear I've ever gotten is? Ochimusha Kotes.. I camped Mee Deggi The Punisher and got lucky.. it dropped on my third kill, with a ~5% drop rate.
The next best piece? Brown Belt, which was quested for, but still well earned (getting those NMs can be a pain)
Other than that, I've gotten my Dragoon relic leggings during a run in Dynamis, which I seldom do and got really lucky that no one else needed them.
Anyone who's played XI will tell you that I haven't gotten anywhere *near* the best gear in the game. Has that affected my enjoyment of the game? Not a tad. I love FFXI. The experiences I've had, the memories I've collected, and the people I've met in my time playing it by far outshine any piece of gear I could ever acquire. And besides, should I ever decide I want some of that better gear... it's there for the earning. All I need to do is commit to putting forth the effort to get it.
I simply accept that my playstyle isn't conducive to getting the best stuff... and I'm fine with that.
I believe that every piece of gear should not be available to every player. Those people willing to put in the extra time and effort to get a superior piece of gear *should* get it. Those who aren't, shouldn't.
I love the idea that relic weapons in FFXI require a *lot* of time and a *lot* of money to full upgrade and unlock. I admire the persistence of those who acquire them. I don't feel it's "unfair" that they got them and I didn't.. I wasn't willing to put in the time or effort... They were. They deserve them. I don't. Period. I'm congratulatory of people who acquire pieces of gear I will probably never get... I'm not jealous of them.
Given what I've described of my achievements in FFXI, I think I can say that I'm not at all hypocritical in my point-of-view.
And in that light, I think many people who say a game should be "enjoyable by everyone" really selfishly mean "everyone who thinks like they do", because if you want a game that can appeal to a wide variety of players, then you have to accept that those willing to do more or try harder than you to achieve a superior reward are also part of that group.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
There should be similar rewards based on the time and difficulty involved.
But a tough battle that requres an entire *group* of people to take down should give unique rewards that cannot be obtained by a solo person fighting by themself. It de-values the reward of the group-centric fight and makes people think "why bother fighting in a group if I can get the same quality gear by myself".
I think it's a question of attitude more than anything.
Say there are two good pieces of gear in a game...
- One is obtainable by me entirely through soloing
- The other is obtainable only by joining a large group, fighting through a large dungeon and taking down a very powerful raid boss at the end... this piece is superior to the item available through soloing.
As good as that raid-level reward is, I don't have the inclination or desire to get involved in a raid group. I say, "Okay, well, it'd be a nice piece to have, but it requires a playstyle that I'm not interested in, so I'll do without and get the best thing I can acquire while playing the way I want to."
I make those decisions all the time in FFXI.
I'm playing FFXI since it launched in the US... You know what the greatest piece of gear I've ever gotten is? Ochimusha Kotes.. I camped Mee Deggi The Punisher and got lucky.. it dropped on my third kill.
The next best piece? Brown Belt, which was quested for.
Other than that, I've gotten my Dragoon relic leggings during a run in Dynamis, which I seldom do and got really lucky that no one else needed them.
Anyone who's played XI will tell you that I haven't gotten anywhere *near* the best gear in the game. Has that affected my enjoyment of the game? Not a tad. I love FFXI. The experiences I've had, the memories I've collected, and the people I've met in my time playing it by far outshine any piece of gear I could ever acquire.
I simply accept that my playstyle isn't conducive to getting the best drops... and I'm fine with that.
I believe that every piece of gear should not be available to every player. Those people willing to put in the extra time and effort to get a superior piece of gear *should* get it. Those who aren't, shouldn't.
I love the idea that relic weapons in FFXI require a *lot* of time and a *lot* of money to full upgrade and unlock. I admire the persistence of those who acquire them. I don't feel it's "unfair" that they got them and I didn't.. I wasn't willing to put in the time or effort... They were. They deserve them. I don't. Period. I'm congratulatory of people who acquire pieces of gear I will probably never get... I'm not jealous of them.
Given what I've described of my achievements in FFXI, I think I can say that I'm not at all hypocritical in my point-of-view.
Great post. I too played FFXI for many years and my experiences are similar to yours.
It's funny, the more I play solo-centric MMOs, the more I feel that sitting around for a couple hours waiting for a group invite isn't such a bad thing. FFXI group dynamics are like nothing I have experienced elsewhere. I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but the requirement to group up and form parties to gain levels appeals to me.
OP: I don't think FFXIV will be oldschool. Like FFXI, it'll be in a league of its own.
Anyhow, it will rock.
Excuse me but I know exactly what I want BECAUSE I have played games like FFXI and EVE (shudders) and WoW, Ryzom, Vanguard, Eq2 and name it I've played it.
Yes FFXI is an excellent game and one of kind, but that doesn't negate it's flaws.
I don't think you understand where optional soloists come from. Let me ask you how old are you? Are you married, or in a long term relationship? Do you have a job, or maybe two jobs? Do you have children? Or other family members or responsibilities in life that require your time?
I'm 20 years old, I got married 4 months ago. and I work for my fathers security company as a forman. Putting in 40-50 hours a week. And on the weekends I don't game because I am (most of the time) busy with friends. Which leaves me around 3-4 hours 5 days a week to game. So yes I have a busy schedule, and yes I do make time for gaming, and yes I can enjoy "time sinks" such as FFXI.
And No my wife doesn't game (well least not MMO's, she's been known to play halo a little)
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm not asking for a simple easy peasy game either, make the difference, I enjoy challenge but it better be worth my time. There's plenty of instances in the old game where it just wasn't worth it and reached a point where it sucked all the fun out of the game.
since you refuse to see anything besides your narrow view.
Oh I see the the other side of the spectrum. Where I get lost is that every single new MMO game that gets announced all the boards are all identical (that is if its a PvE game). They all want the same exact thing time in and time out. They want a challenge but they want it casual friendly, they want the best of both worlds and that is un-reasonable and un-realist. The fact is challenges take effort and time, if it didnt it wouldnt be a challenege. The cold truth is that one guy hit the nail on the head when he said people dont know what they want in an MMO. They want things that contradict each other, that just proves his point.
Yeah, I notice that contradiction a lot, too, and agree that that's a core problem with many people... They want something that isn't feasible.
They want challenging gameplay... that's soloable.
They want epic, raid-level boss battles... that are soloable (I've seen more and more demands for this)
They want a MMO with a huge population... that they can solo exclusively in.
They want challenging quests beyond just "kill x of y"... that can be solo'd.
Basically.. they want a single player game with other people around. It might sound like an over-simplification, but when you read the desires and demands of many people across various different forums for different games.. that's kinda what it sounds like. The concept of an epic raid battle being soloable itself is just ridiculous. It's not a "raid" if it's a solo fight. It then simply becomes a really difficult but soloable boss encounter.
This doesn't apply to those who like grouping but also like to solo at times (even I fit that category). This pertains to those who regard the very idea of grouping, at all, ever, for any reason, under any conditions, like kryptonite to Superman.
And thats exactly what i'm saying. I'm not against a game that you can hope on to for 40 minutes and solo some mobs for XP. But what I don't like are games that are just to easy, example: WOW you can serously solo level from 1-70 in a matter of a month with only playing 4 days a week for 4 hours a day ( I know because I did it). That to me is a "solo" game. A groupe game with the option to solo would be FFXI. (Call me crazy) But there where many a time when I couldn't get a group in the dunes, or I was waiting for a groupe so i'd go solo. And most of the time if I worked hard I could level in about 1.5 hours. (granted this was before level 20...)
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Who are those people? I don't think I've met them yet.
I'm starting to think that whenever someone says, can it be possible to solo (via one certain class or something similar) people equate that with please give me everything on a silver plater so I don't have too much effort for the rewards. That's not it.
Maybe you guys are talking about how Blizzard keeps making things ever easier in their game, which in a lot of cases is a real shame like the last dungeon patch can't remember which raid it was but it was made a lot easier.... I don't agree with that, adding smaller group raids sure, but don't change what's already there into easy mode that cheats your new players of the experience imo anyway.
But mostly people who do things slower and/or chooses to solo already know it will take them longer to reach their goals and that's something we're ok with. Maybe it's the devs that misinterpret what players want and piss everyone off.
Also denying a different way (but no less challenging) to get a certain reward for people who play differently is just plain selfish in my view also. But I don't fear on that end because FFXI already has that in place, where it's possible to get your J boots in different ways. (It's j boots right?)
I've met plenty.
I'm fine with the idea of having some soloable content in a MMO. Like I said, I fit that category as well.
However, there's a group (and it's not a majority, luckily.. but growing), that want the entire game to be soloable and find grouping for any reason to be the worst thing they can imagine.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The problem is your logic. In none of these games are you forced to solo. You can team up for anyting, but the same cannot be said for soloers who are locked out from a lot of content that is group only. Groupers are never denied any content, ever, 100% of any game can be played in groups. Soloers may have content, usually below 50%, but most of it sucks and most of it is unrewarding, making it content not worth doing in the first place. Whatever though, this argument doesn't apply to this game, there will NEVER be an Asian based game that is solo friendly for even 25% of the content, let alone 100%.
Won't keep me from voicing my opinion till some company decides to seriously cater to it.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
In some ways I sympathize with the solo mindset because frankly some games have a community where the people are most definantly not worth playing with. And you are right about most games being party orientated. Chances are there will never be a true Solo game, more or less because they are generally on consoles without online content and are called just rpg's. Not trying to attack you, just pointing out that the MMO does stand for M-Multiplayer-O. It kind of goes with that mindset that parties would have a role in it.
Though with changing trends you can never tell if a true Solo game might come out, though I tend to think it will be ultimately more PvP rather than PvE.
People playing online games so they can spend time in-game with other players makes sense to me.
People playing online games so they can be alone and go through solo content makes no sense to me.
However, I think having the option to do either (so people can do some stuff on their own after playing or competing with others) is very important. This way, raid members can occasionally catch some breath, and soloers can still show other players their awesome (solo) achievements once in a while.
WoW allows people to hit max level playing by themselves, and allows players to finish instances together. These things are not mutually exclusive, and FFXI had some problems with the first part. Fixing those problems does not mean FFXIV will not be a good game for alliance-lovers.
Ahh but see your looking at it from a solo'ers stand point. You can team up if you can find people that want to team up. The problem is they only want team up if the need to run a dungon for loot or if there is something they need. Its next to impossible to make a group to level in solo based game. In a quest driven MMO grouping is actually harder because your constantly having to make sure everyones on same quest and blah blah blah. If you can overcome that and decide to just go mob grind then your missing all your quest rewards making it harder. thus people just solo grind quests, because its the least path of resistance. Gamers in general will always take the easies path. Ill be honest I am not going to make things harder on myself, I will do my best to just grind my way by it fast as possible.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Any of you guys that have short time spans to play in (I am in this boat a lot too these days) try Warhammer's Public Quest system? I have been able to jump in the game for about an hour and get a little boss killed in Public Quest really easy. I think the key to this success of finding groups is because they did something similar to Everquest (Maybe not intentionally, or maybe they did). In EQ there wasn't really quest you did for xp so everyone was free to do what they wanted and that means it was easy to group up at certain spots of your level because people wasn't constantly on different quest.
In Warhammer these Public Quest feel like that where you just walk into the area and you are in a Public Quest. People do them because they have nice rewards and it is repeatable. It rarely takes me over five minutes to find which Public Quest people are doing of my level in Warhammer and I am joined in the fun.
I also think developers such as WoW have seen that some people do not have as much time to devote to a game play session and have went to great lengths to shorten instance raids and instance group dungeons into a very reasonable play session time. Most dungeons/raids can be completed in a little over an hour. If you have less time you still can do that. Pick up groups are very commonly doing these instances in WoW now and it takes very little time to get in one. WoW and other games have went to great lengths to get their dungeon content accessible for quicker gameplay sessions but that can only be taken so far. I still suppose they could add a few onyxia single bosses for groups .. or raids to do in aproximately 30 min time frame. That would be a quick game play session if you really do not have very much time to game at all. At that point your life is so busy are you really getting your money's worth playing an online game?
If you playstyle is less than 30 minutes a day I have to ask are you really playing in the correct genre? Not to be mean, but these games you most likely will at least an hour to do something fun. When I am pushed for time and maybe only can game for 20 -30min I usually play some games designed for short game play. Games are very accessible now even for folks with short game play session time constraints. Like I said though if you life is so busy that you can't play about 20min - 30mins a day or even less, MMORPGs would be hard to justify playing. It would be a waste of money. First person shooters are nice if you only have a quick 30mins though. That is a away to get some online fun if you are really pressed for time.
/sigh >.>
Solo players don't play alone...... For example in EQ2 I spent a lot of time on my own, but there's a lot you can do to contribute to the health of your guild like grinding points, or making crafts for yourself and people who need something. Being in a guild means you can chat with the people you choose to spend time with while doing whatever, it means you can schedule events, raids, dungeons and attend those. Someone needs a hand with something maybe you'll be glad to tag along.
Choosing to level solo does not automatically mean we refuse to socialize or group up with a random pug to kill the same mobs instead of competing with each other, or answer someone shouting for assistance.
Watching these threads it's like watching 2 people scream at each other while having their fingers stuck in their ears.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
<giggles> Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^
I'd just like to say, when I played FFXI (I played awhile ago before these new patches...level sync, etc. which by the way sound like good ideas) I never had much gripe about the grouping situation. You put your flag up and go do something productive like mine, or craft or hunt NMs. If you don't get an invite in a reasonable amount of time form your own group, it was as easy as that.
As far as raiding content...I never got that far and I loved the game regardless! It was fun for me partying and leveling up and doing all the quests and such. I don't understand why it has to be about getting the best gear and all that stuff. If you don't have time to devote to getting all the best gear just enjoy the game for what it is...enjoy the journey, take your time!
That being said, ideally in an MMO I would give more xp/rewards for grouping (leveling wise) and make soloing possible, with a decent xp rate if you can't find a group or don't have time to group (these seem to be the primary complaints about not wanting to group). But honestly, these games are MMORPGs. Grouping, logically, would be the primary tool for progression in such a game according to the acronym. Don't get me wrong, there should be some solo content, but it shouldn't be created as an alternate playing style IMO, it should be just something to do when you don't want to group or don't have time to do group content.
The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control
I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.
When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.
The Excitement of going to Quifm, watching your fuzzy little taru buddy getting agro, Fast paced Skillchain action, getting a double attack with my Gax right b4 a skillchain then another double attack says differently. I had much more fun grouping in FFXI than I ever did in any other MMO. Playing your character correctly and to the best of it's ability was far more important than in casual mmo's. and it added a lot of excitement because of it. You couldn't just auto attack with random abilities and expect anything good from FFXI. you NEED to actively play and participate in the party dynamic/Skillchains/Manabursts/Agro control
I don't know what you think "Action Based" means but combat in FFXI isn't just auto attack.
When you get agro in FFXI it's a very bad thing, THAT is what makes it more exciting.
I agree FFXI had my favorite combat system there was always something going on in a battle.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
You have a good point there Mike, also if you don't have that much time to play you can always make time...... I don't ever watch TV so that frees up time. OR if your married get your wife or husband to play too you can still spend time with them and even RP in the game. Ive known a few couples that played FFXI.
IM single so the only other things that get in the way for my video game time is work and guitar. Which ive been doing both more of because I haven't found a good game to play....... I've been thinking of starting FFXI back up again, I just wish some real life friends woud start to play again.
When I first started I knew at least 10 people in RL that played it now nobody I know plays it . They all quit to play WoW and other games.
Thing is doesn't matter what we could or could not put up with in FFXI, this new game won't be FFXI and it won't play like FFXI.
It won't be or play like WoW either. It's going to be it's own thing and that's something to be really excited about, and as for people not understanding the insta hype it's because of their track record if you love and play most FF's you can predict what you will get in more then a few areas.
Square Enix is always at the top of the game, even though some of their ventures a few years ago didn't go so well, FF14 won't be rehashed mechanics from FF11.
So anyway in conclusion and from looking at Dreams in Vana'diel and Zam forums it's pretty unanimous, people want a fresh new online game with a better progression (not just leveling) but no WoW copies or SE is going to have riots on their hands.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
<giggles> Well I usually just put in my earplugs because I don't like getting my fingers waxy. ^^
You're such a cutie!!!
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF. To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs. I know I haven't. They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.
I'm honestly not sure what your point is here. I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play". Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially. Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.
You really don't understand it? It typically boils down to a time commitment. A lot of us have very packed "non-gaming" schedules between work, family, friends, etc. When you only have an hour or so (or limited time in general) to log on, then solo play can fill that time. Those same people may only have one day a week where they have a good 4-6+ hours to play and then jump into group content. It seems pretty simple to me.
The key for developers is finding the right balance. Warhammer took it to the extreme where everything is so accessible in terms of joining a group/warband that it feels like you are playing with NPC's most of the time.
A real life friend of mine is married, has a child and a full-time job, occasionally having to work on Saturdays. He tends to his wife. He tends to his child. He doesn't neglect his job or other responsibilities. He has only a few hours a night, when he can even log on. If he's lucky, his wife goes out for a few hours on the weekend and he gets extra time.
On the other hand, I'm single with nothing to worry about outside of work except whether I feel like playing one game or another, go out, or just watch TV.
He started playing FFXI the day after me. He's accomplished far more in the game than I have.
He's led a group that has completed all of Chains of Promathia - *before* they made it easier.
He's completed Aht Urghan
He's completed Zilart
He's gotten 3 jobs to 75 (maybe more by now)
He's been active in Sky, Dynamis and Sea linkshells.
He's only one example of people I've known with full lives who still find the time to play and achieve things in a game like FFXI.
It's about setting goals realistically and being persistent.
Then he is the rare exception, especially when discussing a game like FF. To be honest, most people with time intensive careers, don't typically "set goals" involving MMOs. I know I haven't. They play them to have fun, and have a brief respite from a busy life.
I'm honestly not sure what your point is here. I was responding to a post that claims he "can't understand the appeal of solo play". Limited time is typically one of the main reasons behind the growth in "solo" play in MMOs, which is one of the main reasons the genre has expanded exponentially. Of course it is not the only reason, and I'm sure someone could give me some real life example of someone who only solos for a variety of other reasons, just like you just gave a RL example of one guy who fills his only free moments with FF with persistent dedication.
Point taken.
When I first read your post, I took it in the context of "people with busy lives can't enjoy FFXI outside of casual activities" (for lack of a better way of putting it... generally speaking).
And I know that isn't necessarily the case. And, saying my friend is the exception may be so... but that's not really the point of my pointing him (and again, others I've known) out. The point is, if you set realistic goals and stick with it, you don't *have* to limit your play time to only "casual friendly" activities. You *can* experience more of FFXI on a limited schedule.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Guys, I'm sorry to say this...
"the heavy team-play aspect of FF11 has been deemphasized"
I get the impression that knowing your job and doing it well just won't be as critical in this new game. I never played FFXI but that aspect of it seemed like one of the strongest features of the game.
Premature statement. I don't think that will be the case at all. Look at the logo, SE says there's hidden meaning there, well not so hidden all characters are in a circle back to back with weapons on the outside. it's meant to symbolize group play and the importance of alliances and friends.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)