I gain truthfulness with the people i play with I can be there friend with out lying to them and I dont go around saying im Female but when my Guild ask i say I am a girl in RL i get responses like "Hahah Yeah right i bet" or "Girls dont play video games" its insulting because i do play and I hate to be viewed as a liar it makes me feel bad because i was taught growing up lying is bad...
And what non of you can anwser what IS THE POINT IN LYING I WANT A DIRECT ANWSER FOR THIS...?
and Vault when asking your sex say Female when asked your RL sex what do you say this question cannot be changed You are male or female... im not asking you not to RP .... but that is a direct question targeted at your RL..
Why do you care if they don't believe you? What does it matter? If they don't believe you, that's their problem. Unless you are expecting special treatment because you are female, it should not matter.
because I dont like to be viewed as a liar.... I have said this over and over ... yet you all seem to be so okay with lying you can say "Why do you care" I dont want to be viewed as a liar.... I hate liars....
I live in a country where the internet has oft been used by criminals to locate potential targets. There was recently something of a scandal made about social sites being used by kidnappers. There are certainly plenty of legitimate reasons why a person could choose to whithold information about themselves, and even lie about small details (age, home town, civil status, etc.), it isn't pretty, but the internet can be a dangerous place.
Now, personally i never ask anyone about personal details or irl information. I'm not online to make new irl friends, i have plenty of those already. I will treat someone who acts as a female as such and really won't waste anytime wondering what their real gender is irl since what i care about is who they are in an MMO. I care about people keeping their word and showing up on time, about their doing their class job efficiently, about them having a relatable sense of humour, etc. Yes, i've found people with whom i feel comfortable discussing some irl situations but haven't so far feel compelled to actually meet anyone.
Now, i can understand certain people could feel angry or betrayed at the apropiation of what they perceive to be an intrinsic part of their identity, but there really isn't much they can do about it. My advice is to see people for who they are and look past artificial social constructs that are meaningless on the web. You wouldn't kick someone out of your guild if it turns out they're really a 70 year old grandma instead of the teenage california surfer they've always claimed to be. What you should care about is wether they're good gamers and fun to be around. The rest you should always be skeptic about, i've often found is the people more willing to disclose personal details that are more likely to misrepresent themselves.
The real beauty of MMOs is that you can be free to be whoever you choose to be. You can be a respected raider regardless of gender, age, ethnicity, etc. Is what you do online that counts, and how you treat people. The rest is nothing but unimportant details...
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Why do you care if someone thinks you are a liar if you know you aren't? Again, you feel the need to prove something over the internet that you CAN'T prove.
Here is a tip from a female older than you. Guys ONLY care if you are female if they are looking to flirt/date/mess around with you. If you are not looking for the same, then it should not matter to you.
I have a feeling that learning the hard way is probably the only way that will sink in though.
And what non of you can anwser what IS THE POINT IN LYING I WANT A DIRECT ANWSER FOR THIS...?
This is the exact same question, with different words, that I have been asking. What do you gain from proving you are a female? Pretty sure that if you answer one, you answer the other.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I gain truthfulness with the people i play with I can be there friend with out lying to them and I dont go around saying im Female but when my Guild ask i say I am a girl in RL i get responses like "Hahah Yeah right i bet" or "Girls dont play video games" its insulting because i do play and I hate to be viewed as a liar it makes me feel bad because i was taught growing up lying is bad...
And what non of you can anwser what IS THE POINT IN LYING I WANT A DIRECT ANWSER FOR THIS...?
and Vault when asking your sex say Female when asked your RL sex what do you say this question cannot be changed You are male or female... im not asking you not to RP .... but that is a direct question targeted at your RL..
Although understandable but really... When they ask do you really feel the need to tell them? Cant you say like you just said "No comment" or something. The "girls dont play video games" comment sounds like you need a better guild as they sound very immature.
Im male and I'll hold my hands up and say I create females because they usually look better. If someone asked me if i was a girl in RL, I just reply with a "none of your business, its a game so there is no need for my IRL gender (espacially to a random passer by" (which usually gets me a flurry of immature comments LOL).
If my guild asks me then I will truthfully say "yeah im a male". But to what you was saying I think there have been some instances where people have lied about there gender to get items, money etc (cyber prostitution?!) and it somehow carried though the years of online gaming that "all FMAIL charz are MALEZ!! ".
At the end of the day you dont have to justify your gender, aslong as you fun with game then your subscription fee is doing you good.
I gusse im young and wish the world was decent but its not -_- and yes its a game but i feel as though honesty should be in games aswell as RL RP thats fine but know the line between RP and RL and just because you can never physicaly touch these people they are still people even when you /logout they are still in the World and lying to them over a keyboard is still lying
Vault is exactly what i was asking why cant the people that play female toons do that.... Why?
thank you vault!
and my anwser is I dont want to be viewed as a liar that is what i gain.....
I gain truthfulness with the people i play with I can be there friend with out lying to them and I dont go around saying im Female but when my Guild ask i say I am a girl in RL i get responses like "Hahah Yeah right i bet" or "Girls dont play video games" its insulting because i do play and I hate to be viewed as a liar it makes me feel bad because i was taught growing up lying is bad...
Ok, so if someone would ask you in a game "Do you like pancakes?" and you say that you really like pancakes, then they say "Ye right, i bet you hate pancakes!"
Would you be desperate to prove that you like pancakes, and how would you do it? And, more importantly, how does it even MATTER in any way that they dont believe you, or whether you like pancakes or not..!?
If you feel that you have to tell the truth, then fine, do so (unless its your credit card number). But you dont have any reason to go to extremes to prove anything to people you dont know. If they dont believe you, then just let it be THEIR problem.
Then don't ever answer the question when you are asked. For the people who care about such things, they are not going to believe you anyway. If you don't answer, you aren't going to be perceived as a liar. Take your own advice and don't bother with the question.
There is some irony that you posted this in response to a feature from CCP who runs the game that probably has the most in-game scamming and it is actually considered (maybe even encouraged) part of the game.
You can rest assured though that there is at least one company that agrees with you and enforces "gender honesty" at character creation. I honestly forget the game/company involved but it was posted in one of the MMORPG staff blogs recently.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm not saying dont make females toons... Because i make male toons nothing is quite as adorable as male gnome rogue...
But when asked if you are male or female in RL rather avoid the question or anwser truthfully i dont see what is so hard to understand about that or why it is so hard...
I'm not saying dont make females toons... Because i make male toons nothing is quite as adorable as male gnome rogue... But when asked if you are male or female in RL rather avoid the question or anwser truthfully i dont see what is so hard to understand about that or why it is so hard...
It's not that it is hard. It is a choice people make. In a game like EvE that choice may be part of a scam the player is running which is completely acceptable. In another game it may have no relevance. In this particular game where the tool is being introduced, lying is often a game mechanic.
I love how you imply im some kind of Nazi about Gender in games.... it makes me LOL
huh? I just posted a link to an article about a game that enforces it because I thought it would be interesting to you based on your comments here. I was trying to do something nice. Not sure how that came off as an implication.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I dont care if a guy plays a female avatar or the other way around. I also can imagine that the tool that the OP mentioned can be usefull for roleplayers.
If someone lies about his/her gender (for whatever reason the question comes up) its NOT roleplaying though. In that case that person is simply a liar. Its only roleplaying if others are aware that you are roleplaying.
I have no interest in limiting people on making toons male or female only when asked a question by another player to anwser with the truth you implied that i had a problem with the entire thing I dont
I have no interest in limiting people on making toons male or female only when asked a question by another player to anwser with the truth you implied that i had a problem with the entire thing I dont
alright, I'll chalk this up to more insecurities. You have stated you prefer a certain level of honesty. The link I posted describes a game that, by the fact it enforces some level of restriction on gender choice, is more honest. You can take that however you want. Like I said, it was meant as a nice gesture becuase I actually thought it would be of interest to you if not to play then to just have knowledge of. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
That said, someforumguy had a reasonable point regarding consensual RP, but at the same time, the audience and nature of the game is also relevant. So, while this tool could be an odd fit in many other games, I think it is a great fit for CCP and EvE (maybe DUST when it comes out). I think, had this tool come up in the Aion or WoW forums I could agree a bit more with some of the statements that have been made since i don't see the tool being such a good fit for those.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I think it is a bad idea I have to post pictures of myself just to get people to believe I am female.... with remarks such as "No girls play video games" or more insulting disgusting things giving people to pose as my gender disgust me! I am female and i do not need to be attack for being such because someone wants to act like a girl... play a girl toon fine... Personaly i play male toons simple because they are Hot lol... but make it clear your true gender
Why do you feel you need to "prove" you are female in the first place? It's a game, not a dating pool or the Olympics.
I'm not saying dont RP I'm saying when a direct question about your RL is asked why lie? and that picture is too fully adult Taru... Or whatever they are called in FF14
I'im saying it's not Real Life, it's a game.
If you're going to be unhappy with the answers to questions about real life, or concerned people won't tell you the truth about their real life, don't ask.
It's NOT real life, so dont' expect people to interact with you like you are meeting them at a friends party.
It's a game NOT real life.
You keep saying, but I want them to act like it's REAL LIFE, and I'm offended if they don't!
They don't have to, because it's a game.
Thats BS. It is real life.
If you interact with guildies in a game, then it doesnt matter if that happens inside the game, the guildforum, or a real life meeting. You are interacting with REAL people. Which communication medium you use, doesnt matter. So a lie will be a lie. Just like in real life.
Unless you have set up certain rules that make the interaction itself a game. This is called roleplay. But that only works if all particapants know the rules and know they are taking part in this game.
So if suddenly in guildchat some person admits he/she is male/female after some pressure. Then yes, people feel lied to. Especially if that lying person made an effort to build a whole background behind that fake identity and no one was told he/she was 'roleplaying' when flirting with other guildies
That it happened ingame doesnt matter. The only reason why it happens in a game, is because its a lot easier to do so then when you meet face to face
Even in a MMORPG there are some things you really shouldn't lie about.
I support the idea that if some one asks you a question that you don't want to answer then you may as well lie. After all it's easier than drawing attention to it by saying no comment.
So I agree with Ihmotepp's point in this.
Still, I also agree that a lot of lying is wrong and unhelpful.
If someone said to me in a game that they wouldn't roll on a drop, and then suddenly they did I certainly wouldn't find that acceptable. If someone said to me they would do a trade and then after I'd got my stuff they suddenly changed their mind, I wouldn't find that acceptable.
I want to play a game and some people just ask too many questions, still, liars are annoying and I'd rather not group/guild with them. Just as I no longer group/guild with gold buyers.
If someone said to me in a game that they wouldn't roll on a drop, and then suddenly they did I certainly wouldn't find that acceptable. If someone said to me they would do a trade and then after I'd got my stuff they suddenly changed their mind, I wouldn't find that acceptable.
That is reasonable though as not getting the item that dropped or someone going back on a trade would directly impact your character's ability to perform in the game. Someone being female or male is ultimately irrelevant as it has no impact on your characters performance.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It makes no sense to think that lying is ok in a game. That it happens inside a game doesnt make a difference. It is still a lie to a different REAL person. If you think it is wrong to lie about something on the phone, then it is certainly as wrong to lie about the same thing in a game.
Gamechat is just the means of communication. Just like mail, phone or whatever way of communication.
Comments
I gain truthfulness with the people i play with I can be there friend with out lying to them and I dont go around saying im Female but when my Guild ask i say I am a girl in RL i get responses like "Hahah Yeah right i bet" or "Girls dont play video games" its insulting because i do play and I hate to be viewed as a liar it makes me feel bad because i was taught growing up lying is bad...
And what non of you can anwser what IS THE POINT IN LYING I WANT A DIRECT ANWSER FOR THIS...?
and Vault when asking your sex say Female when asked your RL sex what do you say this question cannot be changed You are male or female... im not asking you not to RP .... but that is a direct question targeted at your RL..
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
You are insecure.
Why do you care if they don't believe you? What does it matter? If they don't believe you, that's their problem. Unless you are expecting special treatment because you are female, it should not matter.
because I dont like to be viewed as a liar.... I have said this over and over ... yet you all seem to be so okay with lying you can say "Why do you care" I dont want to be viewed as a liar.... I hate liars....
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
I live in a country where the internet has oft been used by criminals to locate potential targets. There was recently something of a scandal made about social sites being used by kidnappers. There are certainly plenty of legitimate reasons why a person could choose to whithold information about themselves, and even lie about small details (age, home town, civil status, etc.), it isn't pretty, but the internet can be a dangerous place.
Now, personally i never ask anyone about personal details or irl information. I'm not online to make new irl friends, i have plenty of those already. I will treat someone who acts as a female as such and really won't waste anytime wondering what their real gender is irl since what i care about is who they are in an MMO. I care about people keeping their word and showing up on time, about their doing their class job efficiently, about them having a relatable sense of humour, etc. Yes, i've found people with whom i feel comfortable discussing some irl situations but haven't so far feel compelled to actually meet anyone.
Now, i can understand certain people could feel angry or betrayed at the apropiation of what they perceive to be an intrinsic part of their identity, but there really isn't much they can do about it. My advice is to see people for who they are and look past artificial social constructs that are meaningless on the web. You wouldn't kick someone out of your guild if it turns out they're really a 70 year old grandma instead of the teenage california surfer they've always claimed to be. What you should care about is wether they're good gamers and fun to be around. The rest you should always be skeptic about, i've often found is the people more willing to disclose personal details that are more likely to misrepresent themselves.
The real beauty of MMOs is that you can be free to be whoever you choose to be. You can be a respected raider regardless of gender, age, ethnicity, etc. Is what you do online that counts, and how you treat people. The rest is nothing but unimportant details...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Why do you care if someone thinks you are a liar if you know you aren't? Again, you feel the need to prove something over the internet that you CAN'T prove.
Here is a tip from a female older than you. Guys ONLY care if you are female if they are looking to flirt/date/mess around with you. If you are not looking for the same, then it should not matter to you.
I have a feeling that learning the hard way is probably the only way that will sink in though.
*shrug*
This is the exact same question, with different words, that I have been asking. What do you gain from proving you are a female? Pretty sure that if you answer one, you answer the other.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Although understandable but really... When they ask do you really feel the need to tell them? Cant you say like you just said "No comment" or something. The "girls dont play video games" comment sounds like you need a better guild as they sound very immature.
Im male and I'll hold my hands up and say I create females because they usually look better. If someone asked me if i was a girl in RL, I just reply with a "none of your business, its a game so there is no need for my IRL gender (espacially to a random passer by" (which usually gets me a flurry of immature comments LOL).
If my guild asks me then I will truthfully say "yeah im a male". But to what you was saying I think there have been some instances where people have lied about there gender to get items, money etc (cyber prostitution?!) and it somehow carried though the years of online gaming that "all FMAIL charz are MALEZ!! ".
At the end of the day you dont have to justify your gender, aslong as you fun with game then your subscription fee is doing you good.
I gusse im young and wish the world was decent but its not -_- and yes its a game but i feel as though honesty should be in games aswell as RL RP thats fine but know the line between RP and RL and just because you can never physicaly touch these people they are still people even when you /logout they are still in the World and lying to them over a keyboard is still lying
Vault is exactly what i was asking why cant the people that play female toons do that.... Why?
thank you vault!
and my anwser is I dont want to be viewed as a liar that is what i gain.....
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
Ok, so if someone would ask you in a game "Do you like pancakes?" and you say that you really like pancakes, then they say "Ye right, i bet you hate pancakes!"
Would you be desperate to prove that you like pancakes, and how would you do it? And, more importantly, how does it even MATTER in any way that they dont believe you, or whether you like pancakes or not..!?
If you feel that you have to tell the truth, then fine, do so (unless its your credit card number). But you dont have any reason to go to extremes to prove anything to people you dont know. If they dont believe you, then just let it be THEIR problem.
Then don't ever answer the question when you are asked. For the people who care about such things, they are not going to believe you anyway. If you don't answer, you aren't going to be perceived as a liar. Take your own advice and don't bother with the question.
There is some irony that you posted this in response to a feature from CCP who runs the game that probably has the most in-game scamming and it is actually considered (maybe even encouraged) part of the game.
You can rest assured though that there is at least one company that agrees with you and enforces "gender honesty" at character creation. I honestly forget the game/company involved but it was posted in one of the MMORPG staff blogs recently.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Edit: double post... buggy internet
I'm not saying dont make females toons... Because i make male toons nothing is quite as adorable as male gnome rogue...
But when asked if you are male or female in RL rather avoid the question or anwser truthfully i dont see what is so hard to understand about that or why it is so hard...
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
It's not that it is hard. It is a choice people make. In a game like EvE that choice may be part of a scam the player is running which is completely acceptable. In another game it may have no relevance. In this particular game where the tool is being introduced, lying is often a game mechanic.
Also, found the link about the game that enforces gender: www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/3672/Your-Sex-Prove-It-or-Lose-It.html. Apparently it only enforces gender on the creation of female characters but seems like it might be of interest to you.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I love how you imply im some kind of Nazi about Gender in games.... it makes me LOL
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
huh? I just posted a link to an article about a game that enforces it because I thought it would be interesting to you based on your comments here. I was trying to do something nice. Not sure how that came off as an implication.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I dont care if a guy plays a female avatar or the other way around. I also can imagine that the tool that the OP mentioned can be usefull for roleplayers.
If someone lies about his/her gender (for whatever reason the question comes up) its NOT roleplaying though. In that case that person is simply a liar. Its only roleplaying if others are aware that you are roleplaying.
I have no interest in limiting people on making toons male or female only when asked a question by another player to anwser with the truth you implied that i had a problem with the entire thing I dont
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
alright, I'll chalk this up to more insecurities. You have stated you prefer a certain level of honesty. The link I posted describes a game that, by the fact it enforces some level of restriction on gender choice, is more honest. You can take that however you want. Like I said, it was meant as a nice gesture becuase I actually thought it would be of interest to you if not to play then to just have knowledge of. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
That said, someforumguy had a reasonable point regarding consensual RP, but at the same time, the audience and nature of the game is also relevant. So, while this tool could be an odd fit in many other games, I think it is a great fit for CCP and EvE (maybe DUST when it comes out). I think, had this tool come up in the Aion or WoW forums I could agree a bit more with some of the statements that have been made since i don't see the tool being such a good fit for those.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Why do you feel you need to "prove" you are female in the first place? It's a game, not a dating pool or the Olympics.
I'im saying it's not Real Life, it's a game.
If you're going to be unhappy with the answers to questions about real life, or concerned people won't tell you the truth about their real life, don't ask.
It's NOT real life, so dont' expect people to interact with you like you are meeting them at a friends party.
It's a game NOT real life.
You keep saying, but I want them to act like it's REAL LIFE, and I'm offended if they don't!
They don't have to, because it's a game.
Thats BS. It is real life.
If you interact with guildies in a game, then it doesnt matter if that happens inside the game, the guildforum, or a real life meeting. You are interacting with REAL people. Which communication medium you use, doesnt matter. So a lie will be a lie. Just like in real life.
Unless you have set up certain rules that make the interaction itself a game. This is called roleplay. But that only works if all particapants know the rules and know they are taking part in this game.
So if suddenly in guildchat some person admits he/she is male/female after some pressure. Then yes, people feel lied to. Especially if that lying person made an effort to build a whole background behind that fake identity and no one was told he/she was 'roleplaying' when flirting with other guildies
That it happened ingame doesnt matter. The only reason why it happens in a game, is because its a lot easier to do so then when you meet face to face
Even in a MMORPG there are some things you really shouldn't lie about.
I support the idea that if some one asks you a question that you don't want to answer then you may as well lie. After all it's easier than drawing attention to it by saying no comment.
So I agree with Ihmotepp's point in this.
Still, I also agree that a lot of lying is wrong and unhelpful.
If someone said to me in a game that they wouldn't roll on a drop, and then suddenly they did I certainly wouldn't find that acceptable. If someone said to me they would do a trade and then after I'd got my stuff they suddenly changed their mind, I wouldn't find that acceptable.
I want to play a game and some people just ask too many questions, still, liars are annoying and I'd rather not group/guild with them. Just as I no longer group/guild with gold buyers.
That is reasonable though as not getting the item that dropped or someone going back on a trade would directly impact your character's ability to perform in the game. Someone being female or male is ultimately irrelevant as it has no impact on your characters performance.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It makes no sense to think that lying is ok in a game. That it happens inside a game doesnt make a difference. It is still a lie to a different REAL person. If you think it is wrong to lie about something on the phone, then it is certainly as wrong to lie about the same thing in a game.
Gamechat is just the means of communication. Just like mail, phone or whatever way of communication.
Thank you! People that are on my side~! yay!
a lie is a lie!
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion