Perhaps it's hard to generalize a fanbase that large? Was that idea considered at all? In other words.. if you seriously think there is some unified 'wow fanbase' or consensus among the players you are full of fool. There are countries smaller than the wow population, would you seriously think every single person in a country thinks the same and has the same viewpoints? If someone says something you don't like, or exhibits offputting behaviour or whetever you'd like to call it.. Hold it against that person, not everyone who happens to play the same game they do. Prejudice is for the stupid.
Yet another one of the people who got offended by my comment. Throwing the word fool around does not make your opinion any more valid than any others. Trying to deny that wow doesnt have a horrible community on a whole or that it isnt a very easy and dumbed down game, just makes you look like you have your head in the sand. Regardless, I still feel in my opinion that wow and the mainstream masses has and will continue to ruin this genre specifically for those reasons I posted earlier. if you happen to fall in the catagory that I described earlier, then yes I am talking about you.
Reason I quit WoW is simple, its being designed to the masses, they are making the game to easy. The main thing I had to look forward to were Hero Classes, sure they gave us DK but thing is, a DK is a paladin gone bad. So me personally think only paladins should be able to turn into a DK or atleast have the ability to create a DK character. Now they are coming out with this new expansion and of course no new Hero Class. So basically I burned myself out, fighting in an instance for a month to conquer it than having to wait almost a year for new content just gets boring. So yea thats why.
I hate it. I hate the dumbing down it brung to the genre. I hate it because it brung a whole slew of kids, soccer moms and whiney people who dont want challenge. I hate it because it made MMO's go mainstream and in so doing, ruined what made them great. I hate it because most of the people who funded and got this genre going in the first place, has been overun and left out in the cold for games to play. And lets face it, it is a mcdonalds, wii, mentality. I consider those 11 million people to be the low and slow end of humanity.
Whats more, even people who fell into the above type catagory are starting to wake up and ask for more.
I agree with some of your statement, but insulting the player base like that is just idiotic in itself. Like some people have said, some people just dont have the time for a very challenging game, or they enjoy playing games on easy mode, doesn't mean they are part of the "low and slow end of humanity". It is just that a masses game, so chances are that there are more than what you call "low and slow end of humanity". Regardless the game is being dumbed down and is to easy for me atleast.
The reasonable reader will read what i wrote and know who i am referring to by my comment. Those who take offense, might just be the exact type of person i am referring to. There is 0 doubt that the game is made for the masses. In history, literature, and basic human understanding, the masses have always been considered stupid, unpredictable, and dangerous. All 3 of those terms can be applied in some form.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
bah - wow bashing .... it's a great game - full servers, easy to group, choice of guilds to join (or run), tons of content are there some annoying little kids playing? sure, thats what 'ignore' if for
i just wish wow raised the ignore player list to 200 player
Yes. And both were given MAJOR gameplay and mechanics overhauls AFTER WoW that were more like WoW's gameplay and mechanics. Even my beloved LotRO suffered this, but I never said I hated WoW's gameplay and mechanics. Just the endless grind, the crappy graphics (granted, it's not anywhere near as bad as Runescape, though I usually refer to WoW as Dungeons and Disney), and the majority of the playerbase, whom I found to be the most infantile, racist, sexist, homophobic, and in all other ways deplorable people I had ever encountered on any MMO, though that does not say they all were.
The reasonable reader will read what i wrote and know who i am referring to by my comment. Those who take offense, might just be the exact type of person i am referring to. There is 0 doubt that the game is made for the masses. In history, literature, and basic human understanding, the masses have always been considered stupid, unpredictable, and dangerous. All 3 of those terms can be applied in some form.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
First of all, WoW is a pretty good game. It's taken me a long time to allow myself to say that. I HAVE played it when it was in its growth period. I subscribed for a month or so after the trial period was done, but quit it because I didn't think it was at all near to the cup of tea that I liked (the cap was probably 50 then and I was in the 40s). Don't even say that so far back is meaningless. I read the patch updates and expansions that come. I watch my brother play on his current characters nowadays. Those things only fuel my dislike for the game when it comes down to my personal prefference. The mmos that I've spent the most time in are SWG and L2... maybe L1 even.
I started to really REALLY dislike WoW for the player base that it brought. I enjoyed the mmo communities that I was involved in much more before WoW than I do now. I didn't like WoW much just like millions of other people in the world, so I went to other games that WEREN'T like it.. low and behold ... ex or current WoW players are there posting on the forums about how one can change this and that or add this and that to make the game "better". Granted, some of those things could make the game a little friendlier, but most of the "fixes" simplifies or WoWifies (not necessarily the same meaning) the other games. Just because something makes the most money and has the most users doesn't neccessarily mean it is better. I mean... I really think the McDonald's analogy is sound in this case, if not directly, then it can give everyone a little picture of what quality over quantity really means. Olive Garden may take more out of your wallet of patience, but McDonalds is so good and takes so much less out of my wallet to enjoy. SWG never had as many subscribers... but when I got that game and played it from day 1 until the first FAIL update, I've never played anything better. I guess I still see CoH/CoV much, much better than WoW as well.
There have been so many mmos of various styles over the years (I'm talking about from like 1995 until before WoW), but with WoW's coming (a game that not everyone favors), many many many new mmos that I tryout end up being far too similar to it, and thus a waste of my time. There are more than enough people who feel as I do that can make companies rich without having to cater to the new community... a lazier community in some respects (the top wow player is not so lazy... but not everyone's a top wow player, which has nothing to do with just being max level). People must understand that others may bash the WoW community at times, but do not understand how large that community is and instantly assume that they are the part of that community that is being bashed.
I guess besides that... I do hate the cartoony art design direction, but gameplay comes first in my opinion. I often let art design slide unless it's vomit bad.
The reasonable reader will read what i wrote and know who i am referring to by my comment. Those who take offense, might just be the exact type of person i am referring to. There is 0 doubt that the game is made for the masses. In history, literature, and basic human understanding, the masses have always been considered stupid, unpredictable, and dangerous. All 3 of those terms can be applied in some form.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Elitists are more like those Snotty Rich kids at school that can't see that others just aren't as fortunate as they are. I'm pretty good in most of the things that I play, but I never look down on those who stumble and end up with a negative K/D spread. I was probably there once. It's just a game... Elitists PUSH the less fortunate away with a harsh tone rather than helping them become more elite. You can be an accomplished player and above so many and not be an elitist. If you raise the bar too high you'll be left with a small amount of friends. Everyone knows that a zerg of newbs beats a mere party of elites. 300 anyone?
I didn't know that you're being forced to play WoW at gun's point. I'm sorry.
Or any other game for that matter. You really came out of left field on that one Fyerwall even if referring to something Zorn posted.
Some like it, some don't. Why can't we agree to disagree and stop with the weird comparisons. They don't make either side look good.
Some of the analogies are funny and they do manage to keep the discusion rolling though they typicaly pull away from the OP which if I recall was why does everyone hate WoW. The point though that WoW is not best just becasue of its sub numbers is valid I dont really think more people dislike wow than any other MMO though most every MMO on the market at the moment not accounting for legacy MMOs has put a bad taste in the gamers mouth, WoW whent uber easy mode, WAR was just a fail for most of us, AoC gave us half a great game, Aion I think the verdict is still out but Im sure it will tank. I say what we need is a re-skinning of one of teh truly great games no *major* mechanical changes just update the tech even some of the little known MMOs are structurly superior to any thing on the main market atm.
DAoC clasic, Horizons (or what ever they are calling it now), Vanguard, EQ, Asheron's Call I loved for years untill they when and broke the mechanics of the magic UO would awsome to but thats lookign backward looking forward I hope to see a talented MMO developer bring us a darker mature (as in dont shy away from content to save that ESRB rating) MMO, BioWare should do a Dragon Age MMO.
I agree with most of your game list. I was really excited about DAoC Origins, then it kind of disappeared.
Original Everquest, with maybe Kunark expansion, updated graphics and UI but all the same mechanics of the original would be a wet dream for me. I did not like Everquest 2's spin on the original EQ areas though. Like Neriak in EQ2 and EQ1.
Dragon Age MMO could be a show stopper. Though it would be hard to translate some of what made that game so intriguing as a Single Player RPG to an MMO World. We'll see how it turns out for The Old Republic. If Bioware pulls it off well in that title, then we'll have a glimpse of what kind of potential a Dragon Age MMO would have.
Ya, the endless arguing resembles more bickering then actual discussion sometimes. Its hard to keep up with all the threads on basically the same subject. Does WoW suck or not...
If a Dragon Age Online was done it would have to be simply set in the Dragon Age world leveraging some of the political refrences made in the stand-alone RPG, I do think the list of factions presented if made playable (or at least 3 of them) could make for a good game but yes your right the mechanics presented woudl not fit a MMO as seen in the stand-alone.
As for EQ2 I liked it ok, not as good as the older games but a far cry better than some of the stuff we have seen lately.
Elitists are more like those Snotty Rich kids at school that can't see that others just aren't as fortunate as they are. I'm pretty good in most of the things that I play, but I never look down on those who stumble and end up with a negative K/D spread. I was probably there once. It's just a game... Elitists PUSH the less fortunate away with a harsh tone rather than helping them become more elite. You can be an accomplished player and above so many and not be an elitist. If you raise the bar too high you'll be left with a small amount of friends. Everyone knows that a zerg of newbs beats a mere party of elites. 300 anyone?
In the case of MMOs with a leveling system.... I don't think the 300 reference works here.
Just saying.
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
No, I understood the point quite well. It was just a bad analogy when you imply an MMO with a leveling system in place.
Common Sense....
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
No, I understood the point quite well. It was just a bad analogy when you imply an MMO with a leveling system in place.
Common Sense....
/sigh
Uhm... I was speaking about elitism, generally since the word shouldn't be different on a per anything basis. I never made reference to any leveling game. I mean... even in such games, the elitism factor hits in in other areas besides the "level" aspect of the game.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
The reasonable reader will read what i wrote and know who i am referring to by my comment. Those who take offense, might just be the exact type of person i am referring to. There is 0 doubt that the game is made for the masses. In history, literature, and basic human understanding, the masses have always been considered stupid, unpredictable, and dangerous. All 3 of those terms can be applied in some form.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
/applause
VERY well said, and that's about 50% of my problem with WoW. Thanks!
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
You sure seem to know a lot of things for having such lack of evidence to back you claims.
How do you know turbine added raid content to attract the wow player base? Raiding at end game has been the mainstay of mmos since everquest and the sudden addition of such content shouldn't be blamed on one game.
How do you know it was wow players asking for something specific in age of conan? Maybe it was people who have played since everquest? Again, bind on equip items have been a staple for mmos since, you guessed it, everquest.
You seem angry that there are not more alternatives, but that doesn't mean there have not been alternatives tried. This cancer you speak of isn't players, but terrible development companies. If even a fraction of other companies had done their job and created a quality product then 1 game would not have taken the market by storm and players would not expect more from other companies.
It isn't the players fault or blizzards fault that so many other companies are failing to do their job. If you want to lay blame, try looking at them, because they are the only ones in a position of power to change how things are.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
You sure seem to know a lot of things for having such lack of evidence to back you claims.
How do you know turbine added raid content to attract the wow player base? Raiding at end game has been the mainstay of mmos since everquest and the sudden addition of such content shouldn't be blamed on one game.
How do you know it was wow players asking for something specific in age of conan? Maybe it was people who have played since everquest? Again, bind on equip items have been a staple for mmos since, you guessed it, everquest.
You seem angry that there are not more alternatives, but that doesn't mean there have not been alternatives tried. This cancer you speak of isn't players, but terrible development companies. If even a fraction of other companies had done their job and created a quality product then 1 game would not have taken the market by storm and players would not expect more from other companies.
It isn't the players fault or blizzards fault that so many other companies are failing to do their job. If you want to lay blame, try looking at them, because they are the only ones in a position of power to change how things are.
If you look at the timetables by which X is added to Y, you can assume Z was a factor.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
I gave you my definition of elitist. Yours seems to be different. Thanks tho for the mature personal attack. You're cool.
Do you hate rich people? Professional sport players? Your boss? Or is it just anyone that reminds you of the mediocrity you now find yourself in?
This thread pretty much sums up why I left these forums.
"WoW has almost no faults and I play it because its the most popular, therefore, the best."
The games I played the most were Ultima Online, Guild Wars and FInal Fantasy XI. I'm not saying that WoW is a bad game, but the fact is that it's a simple game for masses. Hell, I have friends who play WoW and, after stopping playing a class, in two weeks they've been doing major raids with a new one. I'm not implying that WoW players play it because they don't have the capacity to play other games (that's probably the case of some, but not of all, obviously) but if you know some more complex games then you also know that WoW doesn't require the same effort to play.
I've started playing WoW on beta, then bought the retail version. Got to level 60 after 2 months of playing and quit because of the horrid PvP I was experiencing. I've tried returning more than 4 times already and couldn't stand the pvp. Been through a PvE raid with a friend's paladin and it was boring as shit - even the aggro system looks like it's been made for kids when compared to FFXI's.
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
Comments
Yet another one of the people who got offended by my comment. Throwing the word fool around does not make your opinion any more valid than any others. Trying to deny that wow doesnt have a horrible community on a whole or that it isnt a very easy and dumbed down game, just makes you look like you have your head in the sand. Regardless, I still feel in my opinion that wow and the mainstream masses has and will continue to ruin this genre specifically for those reasons I posted earlier. if you happen to fall in the catagory that I described earlier, then yes I am talking about you.
Reason I quit WoW is simple, its being designed to the masses, they are making the game to easy. The main thing I had to look forward to were Hero Classes, sure they gave us DK but thing is, a DK is a paladin gone bad. So me personally think only paladins should be able to turn into a DK or atleast have the ability to create a DK character. Now they are coming out with this new expansion and of course no new Hero Class. So basically I burned myself out, fighting in an instance for a month to conquer it than having to wait almost a year for new content just gets boring. So yea thats why.
I agree with some of your statement, but insulting the player base like that is just idiotic in itself. Like some people have said, some people just dont have the time for a very challenging game, or they enjoy playing games on easy mode, doesn't mean they are part of the "low and slow end of humanity". It is just that a masses game, so chances are that there are more than what you call "low and slow end of humanity". Regardless the game is being dumbed down and is to easy for me atleast.
Right. 'Cause Blizzard using the whole '11 million subs so it must be good!' advertising tagline isn't encouraging the same thing.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
i just wish wow raised the ignore player list to 200 player
Just 200?
Yes. And both were given MAJOR gameplay and mechanics overhauls AFTER WoW that were more like WoW's gameplay and mechanics. Even my beloved LotRO suffered this, but I never said I hated WoW's gameplay and mechanics. Just the endless grind, the crappy graphics (granted, it's not anywhere near as bad as Runescape, though I usually refer to WoW as Dungeons and Disney), and the majority of the playerbase, whom I found to be the most infantile, racist, sexist, homophobic, and in all other ways deplorable people I had ever encountered on any MMO, though that does not say they all were.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
First of all, WoW is a pretty good game. It's taken me a long time to allow myself to say that. I HAVE played it when it was in its growth period. I subscribed for a month or so after the trial period was done, but quit it because I didn't think it was at all near to the cup of tea that I liked (the cap was probably 50 then and I was in the 40s). Don't even say that so far back is meaningless. I read the patch updates and expansions that come. I watch my brother play on his current characters nowadays. Those things only fuel my dislike for the game when it comes down to my personal prefference. The mmos that I've spent the most time in are SWG and L2... maybe L1 even.
I started to really REALLY dislike WoW for the player base that it brought. I enjoyed the mmo communities that I was involved in much more before WoW than I do now. I didn't like WoW much just like millions of other people in the world, so I went to other games that WEREN'T like it.. low and behold ... ex or current WoW players are there posting on the forums about how one can change this and that or add this and that to make the game "better". Granted, some of those things could make the game a little friendlier, but most of the "fixes" simplifies or WoWifies (not necessarily the same meaning) the other games. Just because something makes the most money and has the most users doesn't neccessarily mean it is better. I mean... I really think the McDonald's analogy is sound in this case, if not directly, then it can give everyone a little picture of what quality over quantity really means. Olive Garden may take more out of your wallet of patience, but McDonalds is so good and takes so much less out of my wallet to enjoy. SWG never had as many subscribers... but when I got that game and played it from day 1 until the first FAIL update, I've never played anything better. I guess I still see CoH/CoV much, much better than WoW as well.
There have been so many mmos of various styles over the years (I'm talking about from like 1995 until before WoW), but with WoW's coming (a game that not everyone favors), many many many new mmos that I tryout end up being far too similar to it, and thus a waste of my time. There are more than enough people who feel as I do that can make companies rich without having to cater to the new community... a lazier community in some respects (the top wow player is not so lazy... but not everyone's a top wow player, which has nothing to do with just being max level). People must understand that others may bash the WoW community at times, but do not understand how large that community is and instantly assume that they are the part of that community that is being bashed.
I guess besides that... I do hate the cartoony art design direction, but gameplay comes first in my opinion. I often let art design slide unless it's vomit bad.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
mmorpg use to be the cool new thing.
It was fun at the time but iv played far to many houres of it now and know its limitattions.
Alright im ready for somthing new and better.
Wow is just more of the same stuff i liked 10 years ago.. been there done that. give me somthing new and inovative iv never done beffor on my PC.
Online RPG is great the first time you play but once you do it, its not as much fun the second time arround.
Im ready to state that timing was a big part of Blizzards success.
This market was in position to explose at the time of Wows launch.
And it did!!!! Congratulations Blizzard!!!!
Elitists are more like those Snotty Rich kids at school that can't see that others just aren't as fortunate as they are. I'm pretty good in most of the things that I play, but I never look down on those who stumble and end up with a negative K/D spread. I was probably there once. It's just a game... Elitists PUSH the less fortunate away with a harsh tone rather than helping them become more elite. You can be an accomplished player and above so many and not be an elitist. If you raise the bar too high you'll be left with a small amount of friends. Everyone knows that a zerg of newbs beats a mere party of elites. 300 anyone?
Or any other game for that matter. You really came out of left field on that one Fyerwall even if referring to something Zorn posted.
Some like it, some don't. Why can't we agree to disagree and stop with the weird comparisons. They don't make either side look good.
Some of the analogies are funny and they do manage to keep the discusion rolling though they typicaly pull away from the OP which if I recall was why does everyone hate WoW. The point though that WoW is not best just becasue of its sub numbers is valid I dont really think more people dislike wow than any other MMO though most every MMO on the market at the moment not accounting for legacy MMOs has put a bad taste in the gamers mouth, WoW whent uber easy mode, WAR was just a fail for most of us, AoC gave us half a great game, Aion I think the verdict is still out but Im sure it will tank. I say what we need is a re-skinning of one of teh truly great games no *major* mechanical changes just update the tech even some of the little known MMOs are structurly superior to any thing on the main market atm.
DAoC clasic, Horizons (or what ever they are calling it now), Vanguard, EQ, Asheron's Call I loved for years untill they when and broke the mechanics of the magic UO would awsome to but thats lookign backward looking forward I hope to see a talented MMO developer bring us a darker mature (as in dont shy away from content to save that ESRB rating) MMO, BioWare should do a Dragon Age MMO.
I agree with most of your game list. I was really excited about DAoC Origins, then it kind of disappeared.
Original Everquest, with maybe Kunark expansion, updated graphics and UI but all the same mechanics of the original would be a wet dream for me. I did not like Everquest 2's spin on the original EQ areas though. Like Neriak in EQ2 and EQ1.
Dragon Age MMO could be a show stopper. Though it would be hard to translate some of what made that game so intriguing as a Single Player RPG to an MMO World. We'll see how it turns out for The Old Republic. If Bioware pulls it off well in that title, then we'll have a glimpse of what kind of potential a Dragon Age MMO would have.
Ya, the endless arguing resembles more bickering then actual discussion sometimes. Its hard to keep up with all the threads on basically the same subject. Does WoW suck or not...
If a Dragon Age Online was done it would have to be simply set in the Dragon Age world leveraging some of the political refrences made in the stand-alone RPG, I do think the list of factions presented if made playable (or at least 3 of them) could make for a good game but yes your right the mechanics presented woudl not fit a MMO as seen in the stand-alone.
As for EQ2 I liked it ok, not as good as the older games but a far cry better than some of the stuff we have seen lately.
In the case of MMOs with a leveling system.... I don't think the 300 reference works here.
Just saying.
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
Missed... the point...
No, I understood the point quite well. It was just a bad analogy when you imply an MMO with a leveling system in place.
Common Sense....
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
No, I understood the point quite well. It was just a bad analogy when you imply an MMO with a leveling system in place.
Common Sense....
/sigh
Uhm... I was speaking about elitism, generally since the word shouldn't be different on a per anything basis. I never made reference to any leveling game. I mean... even in such games, the elitism factor hits in in other areas besides the "level" aspect of the game.
Common sense dictates thinking before you speak.
Swing and a miss...
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
The irony in this one is strong indeed.
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
/applause
VERY well said, and that's about 50% of my problem with WoW. Thanks!
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
You sure seem to know a lot of things for having such lack of evidence to back you claims.
How do you know turbine added raid content to attract the wow player base? Raiding at end game has been the mainstay of mmos since everquest and the sudden addition of such content shouldn't be blamed on one game.
How do you know it was wow players asking for something specific in age of conan? Maybe it was people who have played since everquest? Again, bind on equip items have been a staple for mmos since, you guessed it, everquest.
You seem angry that there are not more alternatives, but that doesn't mean there have not been alternatives tried. This cancer you speak of isn't players, but terrible development companies. If even a fraction of other companies had done their job and created a quality product then 1 game would not have taken the market by storm and players would not expect more from other companies.
It isn't the players fault or blizzards fault that so many other companies are failing to do their job. If you want to lay blame, try looking at them, because they are the only ones in a position of power to change how things are.
Some people just like to hate whatever is popular. They are the kind who think the only good music is the kind nobody else likes (except their entire peer group). It is a way to make themselves unique. Look at me, I am bucking the trend by following the trend of bucking the trend.
But there are other reasons to hate WoW. The problem is that WoW has obtained such a lock on MMO's and indeed gaming that its influence spreads far beyond the actual game itself.
Bioware recently launched Dragon Age Origins, the latest in a long line of single player RPG's that Bioware is famous for, dating back far beyond MMORPG's. And yet you get comments by WoW players asking wether they should buy it, since it seems like that WoW game. Players who never played a single RPG in their life, think WoW is the granddaddy of all RPG games (and with RPG I mean single player) and that ALL RPG games will be like WoW.
In itself, this is not bad. Many of us oldies play WoW after all for its RPG like qualities, but there is a problem when there is a trend to make every game a carbon copy of WoW.
WoW is successful, therefor every game that copies it, must be succesful. Read up on the Star Wars Galaxies, New Game Experience debacle. It was an attempt to turn a sandbox MMORPG into a WoW clone.
Lord of the Rings Online obtained gated raiding in its first expansion in order to appeal to the WoW crowd. Older players who had chosen Lotro precisly because it was NOT all about grinding gear were apparently not considered.
This creates resentment to the point that every WoW player is seen as a cancer that spreads and destroys everything it touches.
In Age of Conan it was the WoW-kiddies who insisted that loot should be bind-on-equip and have high stats despite the entire game being designed to be based on skill, not item stats.
The problem ain't with Bioware, it is the players and other companies who seem blind to the idea that there might be alternate games.
Half-Life took quake, and changed it. Imagine a world in which we had no FPS beyond the basic shooter that quake is and every quake player demands on every FPS forum that the game be exactly like it. Would people then start to resent quake? Yes, but not because they hate the actual game but because of the effect it is having on the rest of games.
That is why a lot of players resent WoW and its fans.
You sure seem to know a lot of things for having such lack of evidence to back you claims.
How do you know turbine added raid content to attract the wow player base? Raiding at end game has been the mainstay of mmos since everquest and the sudden addition of such content shouldn't be blamed on one game.
How do you know it was wow players asking for something specific in age of conan? Maybe it was people who have played since everquest? Again, bind on equip items have been a staple for mmos since, you guessed it, everquest.
You seem angry that there are not more alternatives, but that doesn't mean there have not been alternatives tried. This cancer you speak of isn't players, but terrible development companies. If even a fraction of other companies had done their job and created a quality product then 1 game would not have taken the market by storm and players would not expect more from other companies.
It isn't the players fault or blizzards fault that so many other companies are failing to do their job. If you want to lay blame, try looking at them, because they are the only ones in a position of power to change how things are.
If you look at the timetables by which X is added to Y, you can assume Z was a factor.
Assume?
When X has always been a main feature of mmos since everquest, assuming Z was the reasoning is just irrational.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
I gave you my definition of elitist. Yours seems to be different. Thanks tho for the mature personal attack. You're cool.
Do you hate rich people? Professional sport players? Your boss? Or is it just anyone that reminds you of the mediocrity you now find yourself in?
This thread pretty much sums up why I left these forums.
"WoW has almost no faults and I play it because its the most popular, therefore, the best."
The games I played the most were Ultima Online, Guild Wars and FInal Fantasy XI. I'm not saying that WoW is a bad game, but the fact is that it's a simple game for masses. Hell, I have friends who play WoW and, after stopping playing a class, in two weeks they've been doing major raids with a new one. I'm not implying that WoW players play it because they don't have the capacity to play other games (that's probably the case of some, but not of all, obviously) but if you know some more complex games then you also know that WoW doesn't require the same effort to play.
I've started playing WoW on beta, then bought the retail version. Got to level 60 after 2 months of playing and quit because of the horrid PvP I was experiencing. I've tried returning more than 4 times already and couldn't stand the pvp. Been through a PvE raid with a friend's paladin and it was boring as shit - even the aggro system looks like it's been made for kids when compared to FFXI's.
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG