The reasonable reader will read what i wrote and know who i am referring to by my comment. Those who take offense, might just be the exact type of person i am referring to. There is 0 doubt that the game is made for the masses. In history, literature, and basic human understanding, the masses have always been considered stupid, unpredictable, and dangerous. All 3 of those terms can be applied in some form.
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
The irony in this one is strong indeed.
Hang in there Daff, you will figure it all out someday.
I really think that it's best to drop this whole discussion because the people who hate WoW will only ever get beligerrance from WoW players and the people who love WoW will only try to use the WoW haters' arguements against them. You can't win a war of opinion and taste because taste is based on the individual and the notion that popularity = superiority, though not well-founded, is a hard one to defeat. It would really be in everyone's best interest to just let it go.
I really think that it's best to drop this whole discussion because the people who hate WoW will only ever get beligerrance from WoW players and the people who love WoW will only try to use the WoW haters' arguements against them.
While there is some truth in your words, I think you have a very one sided view of the matter making a statement like this. There have been a number of very belligerent comments made from wow haters that have sparked much of the controversies here. It is hard to find the well thought out and reasoned views among all the stupidity that gets hurled around here.
People think that flinging insults, hyperbole and hate on a game is an acceptable replacement for a well constructed opinion. Then when others disagree and debate their comments, they act like they are getting treated unfairly or attacked for no reason.
Such comments like blaming Blizzard for being at fault for Turbine putting raid content into lord of the rings online. As if blizzard is the only company to have end game raiding or they somehow forced turbine to make changes to lotro that they did not want to.
It has simply become fashionable here to blame the failures of everyone on the successes of one. It is like blaming the one student who studies and gets an A for the rest of the class getting an F, because they did not do their homework or study.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that WoW changed the genre forever. The game was remarkable and addicting when it came out. When something becomes as large as WoW has, it will become the talk of many conversations and comparisons (positive and negative) no matter how much effort is put in to avoid it. I don't think negative issues towards it is directed at what it once was, but rather what it has become. In an effort to attract more people and appease those still around the game underwent significant changes, some arguing making it much more non-gamer friendly and easier. It's only natural that some people will hate this and others will like it.
I really think that it's best to drop this whole discussion because the people who hate WoW will only ever get beligerrance from WoW players and the people who love WoW will only try to use the WoW haters' arguements against them.
While there is some truth in your words, I think you have a very one sided view of the matter making a statement like this. There have been a number of very belligerent comments made from wow haters that have sparked much of the controversies here. It is hard to find the well thought out and reasoned views among all the stupidity that gets hurled around here.
People think that flinging insults, hyperbole and hate on a game is an acceptable replacement for a well constructed opinion. Then when others disagree and debate their comments, they act like they are getting treated unfairly or attacked for no reason.
Such comments like blaming Blizzard for being at fault for Turbine putting raid content into lord of the rings online. As if blizzard is the only company to have end game raiding or they somehow forced turbine to make changes to lotro that they did not want to.
It has simply become fashionable here to blame the failures of everyone on the successes of one. It is like blaming the one student who studies and gets an A for the rest of the class getting an F, because they did not do their homework or study.
I made several well-constructed opinions and saw many from others as well, and all - on both sides - were met with hyperbole.
And I blame no failures on WoW's success. If anything, I'm glad WoW is so huge, because it keeps the unpleasantness I experienced there from coming to LotRO, for example.
And, no, LotRO has no endgame yet, because LotRO from its inception, is meant to extend through the entirety of the books and, therefore, has no actual end until the end of the War of the Ring. You can't put endgame content in what is, essentially, just the beginning. A good MMO is, essentially, all about the journey. Not the destination. WoW is all about destination. Endgame and "l33t l00t" are fine for some. But myself, I want the game to be more than that and, for me, WoW just isn't.
Originally posted by xtoturnwithi I made several well-constructed opinions and saw many from others as well, and all - on both sides - were met with hyperbole. And I blame no failures on WoW's success. If anything, I'm glad WoW is so huge, because it keeps the unpleasantness I experienced there from coming to LotRO, for example.
And, no, LotRO has no endgame yet, because LotRO from its inception, is meant to extend through the entirety of the books and, therefore, has no actual end until the end of the War of the Ring. You can't put endgame content in what is, essentially, just the beginning. A good MMO is, essentially, all about the journey. Not the destination. WoW is all about destination. Endgame and "l33t l00t" are fine for some. But myself, I want the game to be more than that and, for me, WoW just isn't.
wow isn't for some people, just like lotro isn't for some people. Nothing wrong with that.
As for your comments about end game, that applies to every mmo. They are all on going stories that evolve and that doesn't make lotro immune from "end game" raiding. Your character reaches max levels and does the "end game" raids. I'm sure we can both agree that lotro has its fair share of leet loots. Your term, not mine. You will run around farming shards, armor sets, legendary weapons, grinding factions, etc. Am I correct?
Your well thought out argument casts an evil eye at one game for doing something and blesses another for doing the same exact thing. Just like lotro being about the journey. That is one of the game aspects that wow was praised for. It made the leveling process exciting and something that was enjoyable. Lotro has the same exact structure as wow does, but you try to paint one as doing something positive and the other as doing something negative.
Please note that I am not talking about enjoyment factor, but mechanics. You could not pick two games that are more similar to be honest.
World of Warcraft is basically the McDonald's of MMORPG's - billions served, and everyone recognizes it. Kids love it, but most adults have long since found other fare far more palatable.
At least, that's my take on it. I plan on trying out the game briefly when Cataclysm comes out just because gaming is a hobby of mine and I tend to try most new major MMO's when they release.
World of Warcraft is easy to level to the endgame with nothing but questing, my biggest problem with it is lack of socialization and grouping before you hit the "end game" - I find questing by myself boring. If I want to play a single player game I'll play Dragon Age: Origins, which is a much more compelling and fun single-player story and game than WoW could ever hope to be. MMO's are fun for one reason only - you get to play with other humans.
Originally posted by xtoturnwithi I made several well-constructed opinions and saw many from others as well, and all - on both sides - were met with hyperbole. And I blame no failures on WoW's success. If anything, I'm glad WoW is so huge, because it keeps the unpleasantness I experienced there from coming to LotRO, for example.
And, no, LotRO has no endgame yet, because LotRO from its inception, is meant to extend through the entirety of the books and, therefore, has no actual end until the end of the War of the Ring. You can't put endgame content in what is, essentially, just the beginning. A good MMO is, essentially, all about the journey. Not the destination. WoW is all about destination. Endgame and "l33t l00t" are fine for some. But myself, I want the game to be more than that and, for me, WoW just isn't.
wow isn't for some people, just like lotro isn't for some people. Nothing wrong with that.
As for your comments about end game, that applies to every mmo. They are all on going stories that evolve and that doesn't make lotro immune from "end game" raiding. Your character reaches max levels and does the "end game" raids. I'm sure we can both agree that lotro has its fair share of leet loots. Your term, not mine. You will run around farming shards, armor sets, legendary weapons, grinding factions, etc. Am I correct?
Your well thought out argument casts an evil eye at one game for doing something and blesses another for doing the same exact thing. Just like lotro being about the journey. That is one of the game aspects that wow was praised for. It made the leveling process exciting and something that was enjoyable. Lotro has the same exact structure as wow does, but you try to paint one as doing something positive and the other as doing something negative.
Please note that I am not talking about enjoyment factor, but mechanics. You could not pick two games that are more similar to be honest.
Yes, "l33t l00t" is my term, and it's copyrighted. Not really, but I should do it soon. If 7-Eleven can copyright "brainfreeze", a term which was around long before they started throwing it around, then I should copyright my own phrase soon.
And, yes, WoW and LotRO are very similar in mechanics. I said that two or three pages back. But LotRO wasn't like that originally. The mechanics were augmented to become more WoW-like in hopes that Turbine could attract similar numbers. SWG did the same thing.
The big difference to me, besides the graphics, is that the community on WoW and the community on LotRO are as different as July and December and Tolkien's lore is far more interesting to me (though, as someone who played WC3, I will say Warcraft does have pretty good lore). I think the almost total absence of PvP on LotRO is a major factor in the difference of communities, as there's less focus on competition and more on co-operation (anyone else remember standing around in Goldshire and watching players duel and talk shit all day and max level characters challenging their newbie characters to duels then calling them "n00b fgts" for declining, or am I the ONLY person that ever happened to?). But also the difference is that LotRO has tended to attract people who are just flat-out tired of WoW and are looking for an "almost-but-not-quite-the-same" game or a game that is just a little more challenging. The deed system on LotRO and the traits unlocked by completing the deeds makes for a bit more of a diversion from "grind, grind, grind, quest, turn in quest, lather, rinse, repeat", and I welcome that. I have found much, much more solidarity, friendliness, and overall sense of welcomeness on LotRO than anywhere else in the MMO sphere since back in my UO days. THAT is what makes WoW so unattractive to me. Their community were so unpleasant (and I tried three different servers during my 14 days) that I eventually just kept the chat turned off the whole time.
Furor had a saying once.. Elitist just means I'm not the dumbest .... in the room. I have succeeded in life and every other arena that I have chosen to pursue. Having a raised standard in everything that I do, be it video games or life, is not a bad thing. The only people who see this as a negative are those that can not for whatever reason, measure up to the same success. As such, thank you for the compliment.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
I gave you my definition of elitist. Yours seems to be different. Thanks tho for the mature personal attack. You're cool.
Do you hate rich people? Professional sport players? Your boss? Or is it just anyone that reminds you of the mediocrity you now find yourself in?
Nothing wrong with being a MMO elitist. I'm kinda one myself. But what I don't believe in is condenscending attitudes/viewpoints that only serve the purpose of further enhancing negative stereotypes of those with more experience in the MMO field. Not all of us feel the same way you do.
Do I hate rich people? Nope.
Do I hate sport players? Nope.
Do I hate my boss? Nope, he a pretty cool guy. I even designed a new logo for his son's football team he coaches.
Hate is such a strong word. I've seen enough hate in the years I spent in the military, working 7 years in a prison and living as a minority in America. I've also dealt with many different types of attitudes. Which seems to seep out from the words you use. And if you think that anything in my response was a personal attack on you I advise you to read it again.......slowly this time. Notions can be changed at the drop of a hat and last time I checked being a kid is not personal attack.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I think a lot of the problem is that many of the Wow fans see any negative opinion as hate. I once said in a thread: "Wow is a nice game but there are better" and the reply came 30 secs after "Why do you hate Wow?"
And the same things goes for fanbois, people who say something is good with Wow isn't a fanboi, true fanbois will never admit anything wrong with their game whatsoever and also have a lot of knowledge about it.
I believe that most people here neither hate nor love Wow, but almost any MMO player have some opinion about the game.
Originally posted by xtoturnwithi 1) Yes, "l33t l00t" is my term, and it's copyrighted. Not really, but I should do it soon. If 7-Eleven can copyright "brainfreeze", a term which was around long before they started throwing it around, then I should copyright my own phrase soon. 2) And, yes, WoW and LotRO are very similar in mechanics. I said that two or three pages back. But LotRO wasn't like that originally. The mechanics were augmented to become more WoW-like in hopes that Turbine could attract similar numbers. SWG did the same thing. 3) The big difference to me, besides the graphics, is that the community on WoW and the community on LotRO are as different as July and December and Tolkien's lore is far more interesting to me (though, as someone who played WC3, I will say Warcraft does have pretty good lore). I think the almost total absence of PvP on LotRO is a major factor in the difference of communities, as there's less focus on competition and more on co-operation (anyone else remember standing around in Goldshire and watching players duel and talk shit all day and max level characters challenging their newbie characters to duels then calling them "n00b fgts" for declining, or am I the ONLY person that ever happened to?). But also the difference is that LotRO has tended to attract people who are just flat-out tired of WoW and are looking for an "almost-but-not-quite-the-same" game or a game that is just a little more challenging. The deed system on LotRO and the traits unlocked by completing the deeds makes for a bit more of a diversion from "grind, grind, grind, quest, turn in quest, lather, rinse, repeat", and I welcome that. I have found much, much more solidarity, friendliness, and overall sense of welcomeness on LotRO than anywhere else in the MMO sphere since back in my UO days. THAT is what makes WoW so unattractive to me. Their community were so unpleasant (and I tried three different servers during my 14 days) that I eventually just kept the chat turned off the whole time.
1) There is nothing leet about the rewards in wow when compared to any other game. Almost every fantasy mmos revolves around acquiring gear as a method of . I'm curious how you know what wows endgame is like if you only played for 14 days.
2) Lord of the rings online was always mechanically the same as wow. The only reason the endgame mechanics were added later was because the game was released feature lite in the 35+ area and it took turbine a good deal of time to finish that aspect of the game. You blaming wow for that happening is just more of the same senseless accusations that go on around here. Almost every single fantasy mmo has end game raiding as its pinnacle activity. You are ignoring 10 years of mmo tradition just so you can blame it on wow and you have nothing to support your theory.
3) Lack of pvp, 1/3 of the total server populations, more group based content will all lead to a quieter community. There will be less of a crowd to hide in so reputations will be more important.
I don't dispute your reasons for not enjoying wow though. If you don't like the game then you don't like it.
Originally posted by xtoturnwithi 1) Yes, "l33t l00t" is my term, and it's copyrighted. Not really, but I should do it soon. If 7-Eleven can copyright "brainfreeze", a term which was around long before they started throwing it around, then I should copyright my own phrase soon. 2) And, yes, WoW and LotRO are very similar in mechanics. I said that two or three pages back. But LotRO wasn't like that originally. The mechanics were augmented to become more WoW-like in hopes that Turbine could attract similar numbers. SWG did the same thing. 3) The big difference to me, besides the graphics, is that the community on WoW and the community on LotRO are as different as July and December and Tolkien's lore is far more interesting to me (though, as someone who played WC3, I will say Warcraft does have pretty good lore). I think the almost total absence of PvP on LotRO is a major factor in the difference of communities, as there's less focus on competition and more on co-operation (anyone else remember standing around in Goldshire and watching players duel and talk shit all day and max level characters challenging their newbie characters to duels then calling them "n00b fgts" for declining, or am I the ONLY person that ever happened to?). But also the difference is that LotRO has tended to attract people who are just flat-out tired of WoW and are looking for an "almost-but-not-quite-the-same" game or a game that is just a little more challenging. The deed system on LotRO and the traits unlocked by completing the deeds makes for a bit more of a diversion from "grind, grind, grind, quest, turn in quest, lather, rinse, repeat", and I welcome that. I have found much, much more solidarity, friendliness, and overall sense of welcomeness on LotRO than anywhere else in the MMO sphere since back in my UO days. THAT is what makes WoW so unattractive to me. Their community were so unpleasant (and I tried three different servers during my 14 days) that I eventually just kept the chat turned off the whole time.
1) There is nothing leet about the rewards in wow when compared to any other game. Almost every fantasy mmos revolves around acquiring gear as a method of . I'm curious how you know what wows endgame is like if you only played for 14 days.
2) Lord of the rings online was always mechanically the same as wow. The only reason the endgame mechanics were added later was because the game was released feature lite in the 35+ area and it took turbine a good deal of time to finish that aspect of the game. You blaming wow for that happening is just more of the same senseless accusations that go on around here. Almost every single fantasy mmo has end game raiding as its pinnacle activity. You are ignoring 10 years of mmo tradition just so you can blame it on wow and you have nothing to support your theory.
3) Lack of pvp, 1/3 of the total server populations, more group based content will all lead to a quieter community. There will be less of a crowd to hide in so reputations will be more important.
I don't dispute your reasons for not enjoying wow though. If you don't like the game then you don't like it.
1.) I am aware of that fact. 'l33t l00t" is simply my name for any high-level gear.
2.) I said much, much earlier that 60 people I know play WoW. One is my best friend. I've hung out at his house while he's been playing on many occasions, and he has a level-capped Death Knight.
I think a lot of the problem is that many of the Wow fans see any negative opinion as hate. I once said in a thread: "Wow is a nice game but there are better" and the reply came 30 secs after "Why do you hate Wow?" And the same things goes for fanbois, people who say something is good with Wow isn't a fanboi, true fanbois will never admit anything wrong with their game whatsoever and also have a lot of knowledge about it. I believe that most people here neither hate nor love Wow, but almost any MMO player have some opinion about the game.
Thats because many haters dont use any logic to their hate pool other then WoW is the top Seller/Top Pop, so Iam going to hate it.
Comments about the community being Negetive and nothing but Kids for example, is always thrown around. Yet All MMOs have people like this. It's the Internet for crying out loud. Yet people ignore that factor in other games. "Ever Play Guild Wars or a FPS?" I tell them.
Also about the Kiddy comment made by hater. Studys show that most of WoW's gamers, even Console Gamers, are Adults, not kids. this aint the 70s anymore. I dont even think the Government understand this anymore. Gamers!= Kid anymore.
Another thing that gets thrown around is the myth that WoW is easy mode. Yet these haters never even touched End Game. So how in the world can they say it is easy, if they never even play it?
Then people talk about WoW's Grind. ALL MMORPG/RPG GAMES HAVE GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be for Gear, but it's still there.
Then there is the talk about WoW's PvP is not Balanced. No MMORPG with PvP, that doesnt envole players using the same (Stat/Gear/Class/Spells) is ever going to be Balanced. So acting like this is a main flaw in WoW, is just foolish.
I think a lot of the problem is that many of the Wow fans see any negative opinion as hate. I once said in a thread: "Wow is a nice game but there are better" and the reply came 30 secs after "Why do you hate Wow?" And the same things goes for fanbois, people who say something is good with Wow isn't a fanboi, true fanbois will never admit anything wrong with their game whatsoever and also have a lot of knowledge about it. I believe that most people here neither hate nor love Wow, but almost any MMO player have some opinion about the game.
Thats because many haters dont use any logic to their hate pool other then WoW is the top Seller/Top Pop, so Iam going to hate it.
Comments about the community being Negetive and nothing but Kids for example, is always thrown around. Yet All MMOs have people like this. It's the Internet for crying out loud. Yet people ignore that factor in other games. "Ever Play Guild Wars or a FPS?" I tell them.
Also about the Kiddy comment made by hater. Studys show that most of WoW's gamers, even Console Gamers, are Adults, not kids. this aint the 70s anymore. I dont even think the Government understand this anymore. Gamers!= Kid anymore.
Another thing that gets thrown around is the myth that WoW is easy mode. Yet these haters never even touched End Game. So how in the world can they say it is easy, if they never even play it?
Then people talk about WoW's Grind. ALL MMORPG/RPG GAMES HAVE GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be for Gear, but it's still there.
Then there is the talk about WoW's PvP is not Balanced. No MMORPG with PvP, that doesnt envole players using the same (Stat/Gear/Class/Spells) is ever going to be Balanced. So acting like this is a main flaw in WoW, is just foolish.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself.
It's just like Hootie and The Blowfish. WoW is just too popular and now everyone is rebelling against it. For some reason people just love to personify their interests. Now-a-days its just plain cool to hate WoW.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I don't hate WoW, I am bored with the raids that are so time consuming.
I don't understand why we want to level up crafting if we get better gear from instances and raids, except alchemy, and the newer crafts from lich king.
I love my class - warlock. I love the gryphon mounts (am alliance). I like the WoW quests -- they are better than other mmorpgs.
I just prefer a game with more diverse activities, more customizability like the crafting in Star Wars Galaxies. I hear Cataclysm will give that.
After 5 years of doing the same old stuff, I think people are bored. Am waiting for something new that doesn't have to be great but should be decent in many aspects.
It's just like Hootie and The Blowfish. WoW is just too popular and now everyone is rebelling against it. For some reason people just love to personify their interests. Now-a-days its just plain cool to hate WoW. Cheers!
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
It's just like Hootie and The Blowfish. WoW is just too popular and now everyone is rebelling against it. For some reason people just love to personify their interests. Now-a-days its just plain cool to hate WoW. Cheers!
lol, very nice!
People love the game or they hate it. Get over it already. Just the fact that this post is nearing 50 pages long proves how much people love (and hate) the game.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
You talk as if you have experience with the entire game, but only have 14 days experience with it. If you dislikeed your time then so be it, but it is still just a short trial of a game and I just find it hard to believe an emotion so strong as hatred could be established in that amount of time. There is a mile of difference between dislike and hate and I am not trying to say you couldn't possibly dislike wow. Perhaps that is what you are not understanding with the way you flip flop between dislike and hate so casually and conclude that ANY dislike of wow is somehow not tolerated. Again, I am not trying to tell you that you liked wow.
When you parrot on about things you can only have had minimal or no experience with it does call your conclusions to question. Like the end game leet loots or pvp and the way you try to relate to people who have actually experience more than a short trial of the game. So yes you do come across as someone trying to fit in, sorry that is how you represent yourself.
For example if I were to go post how much I hated Aion after 14 days and repeated the same conclusions you did, I would get flamed to hell and back on those forums. I think you would find the same reaction in other game forums as well, so the problem doesn't seem to be the fans of the game as you would have us believe.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
mm if you didnt reach northrend ,everything you saw is pretty much worthless since almost everybody is at northrend
and you dont see many player before dalaran once at dalaran and you have to quest in that are there are ton of player but before asde from the city blizzard is pretty much empty like all other 5 years old game
i do hope you reached north rend in your 14 day trial because if you didnt see it you missed all the fun ,because that where the fun is right now in wow.
Comments
So because i play World of Warcraft, i'm a danger to society..... gosh...
Sooo.... your one of the one's taking offense.....
I dont like WOW, as many will know ive stated my rather strong opinion of the player base. But given a choice between the WOW fanboys and an elitist jerk, I will hang with the fanboys.
The irony in this one is strong indeed.
Hang in there Daff, you will figure it all out someday.
I really think that it's best to drop this whole discussion because the people who hate WoW will only ever get beligerrance from WoW players and the people who love WoW will only try to use the WoW haters' arguements against them. You can't win a war of opinion and taste because taste is based on the individual and the notion that popularity = superiority, though not well-founded, is a hard one to defeat. It would really be in everyone's best interest to just let it go.
While there is some truth in your words, I think you have a very one sided view of the matter making a statement like this. There have been a number of very belligerent comments made from wow haters that have sparked much of the controversies here. It is hard to find the well thought out and reasoned views among all the stupidity that gets hurled around here.
People think that flinging insults, hyperbole and hate on a game is an acceptable replacement for a well constructed opinion. Then when others disagree and debate their comments, they act like they are getting treated unfairly or attacked for no reason.
Such comments like blaming Blizzard for being at fault for Turbine putting raid content into lord of the rings online. As if blizzard is the only company to have end game raiding or they somehow forced turbine to make changes to lotro that they did not want to.
It has simply become fashionable here to blame the failures of everyone on the successes of one. It is like blaming the one student who studies and gets an A for the rest of the class getting an F, because they did not do their homework or study.
I played WoW for a while because everyone in my office played it.
It was fun, but grew tired of it and I really didn't care for the story or Warcraft Lore.
I didn't care for the cartoony graphics and character model.
It just wasn't me.
What MMO's I like well I like Final Fantasy XI and that's because I'm a fan of the franchise.
The FF lore and interesting characters connects with me because it is similar to other FF games, but with slight differences.
The graphics art style and music are superb.
I think it is the same for the majority of the Warcraft people because of their history with the Warcraft RTS games.
Some like WoW for the Tolkien like world.
I don't hate WoW it is just not my thing.
Aion
Final Fantasy XI
Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine Online
I don't think anyone is going to argue that WoW changed the genre forever. The game was remarkable and addicting when it came out. When something becomes as large as WoW has, it will become the talk of many conversations and comparisons (positive and negative) no matter how much effort is put in to avoid it. I don't think negative issues towards it is directed at what it once was, but rather what it has become. In an effort to attract more people and appease those still around the game underwent significant changes, some arguing making it much more non-gamer friendly and easier. It's only natural that some people will hate this and others will like it.
While there is some truth in your words, I think you have a very one sided view of the matter making a statement like this. There have been a number of very belligerent comments made from wow haters that have sparked much of the controversies here. It is hard to find the well thought out and reasoned views among all the stupidity that gets hurled around here.
People think that flinging insults, hyperbole and hate on a game is an acceptable replacement for a well constructed opinion. Then when others disagree and debate their comments, they act like they are getting treated unfairly or attacked for no reason.
Such comments like blaming Blizzard for being at fault for Turbine putting raid content into lord of the rings online. As if blizzard is the only company to have end game raiding or they somehow forced turbine to make changes to lotro that they did not want to.
It has simply become fashionable here to blame the failures of everyone on the successes of one. It is like blaming the one student who studies and gets an A for the rest of the class getting an F, because they did not do their homework or study.
I made several well-constructed opinions and saw many from others as well, and all - on both sides - were met with hyperbole.
And I blame no failures on WoW's success. If anything, I'm glad WoW is so huge, because it keeps the unpleasantness I experienced there from coming to LotRO, for example.
And, no, LotRO has no endgame yet, because LotRO from its inception, is meant to extend through the entirety of the books and, therefore, has no actual end until the end of the War of the Ring. You can't put endgame content in what is, essentially, just the beginning. A good MMO is, essentially, all about the journey. Not the destination. WoW is all about destination. Endgame and "l33t l00t" are fine for some. But myself, I want the game to be more than that and, for me, WoW just isn't.
wow isn't for some people, just like lotro isn't for some people. Nothing wrong with that.
As for your comments about end game, that applies to every mmo. They are all on going stories that evolve and that doesn't make lotro immune from "end game" raiding. Your character reaches max levels and does the "end game" raids. I'm sure we can both agree that lotro has its fair share of leet loots. Your term, not mine. You will run around farming shards, armor sets, legendary weapons, grinding factions, etc. Am I correct?
Your well thought out argument casts an evil eye at one game for doing something and blesses another for doing the same exact thing. Just like lotro being about the journey. That is one of the game aspects that wow was praised for. It made the leveling process exciting and something that was enjoyable. Lotro has the same exact structure as wow does, but you try to paint one as doing something positive and the other as doing something negative.
Please note that I am not talking about enjoyment factor, but mechanics. You could not pick two games that are more similar to be honest.
World of Warcraft is basically the McDonald's of MMORPG's - billions served, and everyone recognizes it. Kids love it, but most adults have long since found other fare far more palatable.
At least, that's my take on it. I plan on trying out the game briefly when Cataclysm comes out just because gaming is a hobby of mine and I tend to try most new major MMO's when they release.
World of Warcraft is easy to level to the endgame with nothing but questing, my biggest problem with it is lack of socialization and grouping before you hit the "end game" - I find questing by myself boring. If I want to play a single player game I'll play Dragon Age: Origins, which is a much more compelling and fun single-player story and game than WoW could ever hope to be. MMO's are fun for one reason only - you get to play with other humans.
wow isn't for some people, just like lotro isn't for some people. Nothing wrong with that.
As for your comments about end game, that applies to every mmo. They are all on going stories that evolve and that doesn't make lotro immune from "end game" raiding. Your character reaches max levels and does the "end game" raids. I'm sure we can both agree that lotro has its fair share of leet loots. Your term, not mine. You will run around farming shards, armor sets, legendary weapons, grinding factions, etc. Am I correct?
Your well thought out argument casts an evil eye at one game for doing something and blesses another for doing the same exact thing. Just like lotro being about the journey. That is one of the game aspects that wow was praised for. It made the leveling process exciting and something that was enjoyable. Lotro has the same exact structure as wow does, but you try to paint one as doing something positive and the other as doing something negative.
Please note that I am not talking about enjoyment factor, but mechanics. You could not pick two games that are more similar to be honest.
Yes, "l33t l00t" is my term, and it's copyrighted. Not really, but I should do it soon. If 7-Eleven can copyright "brainfreeze", a term which was around long before they started throwing it around, then I should copyright my own phrase soon.
And, yes, WoW and LotRO are very similar in mechanics. I said that two or three pages back. But LotRO wasn't like that originally. The mechanics were augmented to become more WoW-like in hopes that Turbine could attract similar numbers. SWG did the same thing.
The big difference to me, besides the graphics, is that the community on WoW and the community on LotRO are as different as July and December and Tolkien's lore is far more interesting to me (though, as someone who played WC3, I will say Warcraft does have pretty good lore). I think the almost total absence of PvP on LotRO is a major factor in the difference of communities, as there's less focus on competition and more on co-operation (anyone else remember standing around in Goldshire and watching players duel and talk shit all day and max level characters challenging their newbie characters to duels then calling them "n00b fgts" for declining, or am I the ONLY person that ever happened to?). But also the difference is that LotRO has tended to attract people who are just flat-out tired of WoW and are looking for an "almost-but-not-quite-the-same" game or a game that is just a little more challenging. The deed system on LotRO and the traits unlocked by completing the deeds makes for a bit more of a diversion from "grind, grind, grind, quest, turn in quest, lather, rinse, repeat", and I welcome that. I have found much, much more solidarity, friendliness, and overall sense of welcomeness on LotRO than anywhere else in the MMO sphere since back in my UO days. THAT is what makes WoW so unattractive to me. Their community were so unpleasant (and I tried three different servers during my 14 days) that I eventually just kept the chat turned off the whole time.
If you were truly an elitist you would already know life is too short to be play video games, thus not wasting your time pursuing fruitless endeavors. No you're a MMO Elitist aka geek aka specialized nerd. You've probably played some form of a PnP rpg or better yet was more than likely a GM. And this is where you're twisted notion of self-righteousness stems from.
Or maybe you're just a kid, they are notoriously known for rejecting anything that their parents deem cool or heaven forbid, enjoy playing. Heh the more I think about it, the more I snicker at your pointless attempt to elevate your own self-worth. Carry on.
I gave you my definition of elitist. Yours seems to be different. Thanks tho for the mature personal attack. You're cool.
Do you hate rich people? Professional sport players? Your boss? Or is it just anyone that reminds you of the mediocrity you now find yourself in?
Nothing wrong with being a MMO elitist. I'm kinda one myself. But what I don't believe in is condenscending attitudes/viewpoints that only serve the purpose of further enhancing negative stereotypes of those with more experience in the MMO field. Not all of us feel the same way you do.
Do I hate rich people? Nope.
Do I hate sport players? Nope.
Do I hate my boss? Nope, he a pretty cool guy. I even designed a new logo for his son's football team he coaches.
Hate is such a strong word. I've seen enough hate in the years I spent in the military, working 7 years in a prison and living as a minority in America. I've also dealt with many different types of attitudes. Which seems to seep out from the words you use. And if you think that anything in my response was a personal attack on you I advise you to read it again.......slowly this time. Notions can be changed at the drop of a hat and last time I checked being a kid is not personal attack.....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I think a lot of the problem is that many of the Wow fans see any negative opinion as hate. I once said in a thread: "Wow is a nice game but there are better" and the reply came 30 secs after "Why do you hate Wow?"
And the same things goes for fanbois, people who say something is good with Wow isn't a fanboi, true fanbois will never admit anything wrong with their game whatsoever and also have a lot of knowledge about it.
I believe that most people here neither hate nor love Wow, but almost any MMO player have some opinion about the game.
1) There is nothing leet about the rewards in wow when compared to any other game. Almost every fantasy mmos revolves around acquiring gear as a method of . I'm curious how you know what wows endgame is like if you only played for 14 days.
2) Lord of the rings online was always mechanically the same as wow. The only reason the endgame mechanics were added later was because the game was released feature lite in the 35+ area and it took turbine a good deal of time to finish that aspect of the game. You blaming wow for that happening is just more of the same senseless accusations that go on around here. Almost every single fantasy mmo has end game raiding as its pinnacle activity. You are ignoring 10 years of mmo tradition just so you can blame it on wow and you have nothing to support your theory.
3) Lack of pvp, 1/3 of the total server populations, more group based content will all lead to a quieter community. There will be less of a crowd to hide in so reputations will be more important.
I don't dispute your reasons for not enjoying wow though. If you don't like the game then you don't like it.
1) There is nothing leet about the rewards in wow when compared to any other game. Almost every fantasy mmos revolves around acquiring gear as a method of . I'm curious how you know what wows endgame is like if you only played for 14 days.
2) Lord of the rings online was always mechanically the same as wow. The only reason the endgame mechanics were added later was because the game was released feature lite in the 35+ area and it took turbine a good deal of time to finish that aspect of the game. You blaming wow for that happening is just more of the same senseless accusations that go on around here. Almost every single fantasy mmo has end game raiding as its pinnacle activity. You are ignoring 10 years of mmo tradition just so you can blame it on wow and you have nothing to support your theory.
3) Lack of pvp, 1/3 of the total server populations, more group based content will all lead to a quieter community. There will be less of a crowd to hide in so reputations will be more important.
I don't dispute your reasons for not enjoying wow though. If you don't like the game then you don't like it.
1.) I am aware of that fact. 'l33t l00t" is simply my name for any high-level gear.
2.) I said much, much earlier that 60 people I know play WoW. One is my best friend. I've hung out at his house while he's been playing on many occasions, and he has a level-capped Death Knight.
3.) My point exactly.
Thats because many haters dont use any logic to their hate pool other then WoW is the top Seller/Top Pop, so Iam going to hate it.
Comments about the community being Negetive and nothing but Kids for example, is always thrown around. Yet All MMOs have people like this. It's the Internet for crying out loud. Yet people ignore that factor in other games. "Ever Play Guild Wars or a FPS?" I tell them.
Also about the Kiddy comment made by hater. Studys show that most of WoW's gamers, even Console Gamers, are Adults, not kids. this aint the 70s anymore. I dont even think the Government understand this anymore. Gamers!= Kid anymore.
Another thing that gets thrown around is the myth that WoW is easy mode. Yet these haters never even touched End Game. So how in the world can they say it is easy, if they never even play it?
Then people talk about WoW's Grind. ALL MMORPG/RPG GAMES HAVE GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be for Gear, but it's still there.
Then there is the talk about WoW's PvP is not Balanced. No MMORPG with PvP, that doesnt envole players using the same (Stat/Gear/Class/Spells) is ever going to be Balanced. So acting like this is a main flaw in WoW, is just foolish.
Thats because many haters dont use any logic to their hate pool other then WoW is the top Seller/Top Pop, so Iam going to hate it.
Comments about the community being Negetive and nothing but Kids for example, is always thrown around. Yet All MMOs have people like this. It's the Internet for crying out loud. Yet people ignore that factor in other games. "Ever Play Guild Wars or a FPS?" I tell them.
Also about the Kiddy comment made by hater. Studys show that most of WoW's gamers, even Console Gamers, are Adults, not kids. this aint the 70s anymore. I dont even think the Government understand this anymore. Gamers!= Kid anymore.
Another thing that gets thrown around is the myth that WoW is easy mode. Yet these haters never even touched End Game. So how in the world can they say it is easy, if they never even play it?
Then people talk about WoW's Grind. ALL MMORPG/RPG GAMES HAVE GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be for Gear, but it's still there.
Then there is the talk about WoW's PvP is not Balanced. No MMORPG with PvP, that doesnt envole players using the same (Stat/Gear/Class/Spells) is ever going to be Balanced. So acting like this is a main flaw in WoW, is just foolish.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself.
Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
It's just like Hootie and The Blowfish. WoW is just too popular and now everyone is rebelling against it. For some reason people just love to personify their interests. Now-a-days its just plain cool to hate WoW.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I don't hate WoW, I am bored with the raids that are so time consuming.
I don't understand why we want to level up crafting if we get better gear from instances and raids, except alchemy, and the newer crafts from lich king.
I love my class - warlock. I love the gryphon mounts (am alliance). I like the WoW quests -- they are better than other mmorpgs.
I just prefer a game with more diverse activities, more customizability like the crafting in Star Wars Galaxies. I hear Cataclysm will give that.
After 5 years of doing the same old stuff, I think people are bored. Am waiting for something new that doesn't have to be great but should be decent in many aspects.
Hootie and the Blowfish was popular?
Gogo, 50 pages!!
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
lol, very nice!
People love the game or they hate it. Get over it already. Just the fact that this post is nearing 50 pages long proves how much people love (and hate) the game.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
You talk as if you have experience with the entire game, but only have 14 days experience with it. If you dislikeed your time then so be it, but it is still just a short trial of a game and I just find it hard to believe an emotion so strong as hatred could be established in that amount of time. There is a mile of difference between dislike and hate and I am not trying to say you couldn't possibly dislike wow. Perhaps that is what you are not understanding with the way you flip flop between dislike and hate so casually and conclude that ANY dislike of wow is somehow not tolerated. Again, I am not trying to tell you that you liked wow.
When you parrot on about things you can only have had minimal or no experience with it does call your conclusions to question. Like the end game leet loots or pvp and the way you try to relate to people who have actually experience more than a short trial of the game. So yes you do come across as someone trying to fit in, sorry that is how you represent yourself.
For example if I were to go post how much I hated Aion after 14 days and repeated the same conclusions you did, I would get flamed to hell and back on those forums. I think you would find the same reaction in other game forums as well, so the problem doesn't seem to be the fans of the game as you would have us believe.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
mm if you didnt reach northrend ,everything you saw is pretty much worthless since almost everybody is at northrend
and you dont see many player before dalaran once at dalaran and you have to quest in that are there are ton of player but before asde from the city blizzard is pretty much empty like all other 5 years old game
i do hope you reached north rend in your 14 day trial because if you didnt see it you missed all the fun ,because that where the fun is right now in wow.