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World of warcraft - game of the decade.
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That's Blizzard's fault how, exactly?
Yea thats not blizzards fault. Also the original SWG was already considered a failed game they drastically changed things in an attempt to make it a success and well to few fans and players it had it turned its back on.
That's Blizzard's fault how, exactly?
where did i say it was their fault? They released their game.. this was the influence they brought. you have a company here who sees how one MMO has 11 million.. you think well gee.. we need to be like them...
they fail because of it.. they didnt fail because of WOW.. they failed because they tried to be like WOW...
I will give you a real life example... i can bet none of you ever been to China. I have been there for 5 years. going on 6 now. They have no business sense for the most part. You can walk down the street and see store after store selling tools. You go to one store.. he says its 5 yuan... go to next to see if its cheaper... he says 5 yuan... go to next same thing... you are like astounded.. ask why are you same price as the next guy... well they will tell you i cant do that... it would be wrong...
then go down the street to a chain store that sells tools. they sell it for 5 yuan. ALL those other stores are barely surviving and barely making money because whats the point of buying from them... they dont guarantee quality... the chain store gaurantees if its going to break you can bring it back...
the smaller stores will say no you cant return it. They tried copying a bigger store but yet fail... all because they dont have the business sense to be different.. be cheaper... maybe have some sort of entice..
why buy from a small store if you can just go to a regular chain store and get it for the same price and some backing behind it?
That's Blizzard's fault how, exactly?
Yea thats not blizzards fault. Also the original SWG was already considered a failed game they drastically changed things in an attempt to make it a success and well to few fans and players it had it turned its back on.
wrong.. they still had 200k to 300k when the CU released.. which killed it even more... it was not considered failed.. when CU was released it was on the verge of failing because it had changed the game too drastically. eliminating alot of stuff you had did prior worthless. NGE just finished it off by making absolutely NOTHING you did prior worth a damn and eliminating their professions from 32+ to 9 cllasses
there were 3 phases for SWG... PRE CU , CU. NGE... PRE CU was not a fail... it was going strong still even right up till they released CU. CU was released and people left... legendary weapons were worthless.. lots of items you had hunted down to get were worthless... made LOTS mad.. i still stuck around it... CU was killing SWG.. more and more left during its ERA.. they just absolutely axed the crap out of CU by pumping out NGE which basically was WOW in a Star wars lore.
here you go:
Many industry professionals expected that the subscription numbers would exceed the one million mark, a feat accomplished only thus far in Asia by MMORPGs such as Lineage and more recently by World of Warcraft.[59] Based on NPD figures as of February 2004, SWG sold more than 300,000 boxed copies at retail for a total initial revenue of over $18 million dollars. Sony Online Entertainment confirmed in March 2004 that there were well over 200,000 monthly subscribers making it the second largest MMORPG in North America.[60] The company later reported in 2004 that they had 250,000 subscribers.[61] In August 2005, Sony Online Entertainment reported that they had now sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.[62] Media sources reported that the subscriber numbers have fallen substantially since the release of the CU and the NGE.[63][64] In early 2006 after the NGE, allegedly "hacked" numbers purported to show that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night. The President of Sony Online Entertainment, John Smedley, denied that subscriptions had fallen this low: "Have the numbers in Star Wars Galaxies gone down? I will tell you that the concurrent numbers have gone down. Are they as low as what was shown there? Absolutely not.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
and im guessing you didnt understand that statement then...
Let me help you... since 2004 when WOW was released.. it became the MOST successful MMO because of its SUBS numbers...
since 2004, because of that.. they had so many companies looking at WOW as a model they wanted to take up because of it...
Is this WOWs fault.. NO its not... but it is because of their success it influenced many companies to try to model.. COPY what they did and in the end they failed.
understand or you gonna keep on this little pick apart only certain things i say to help prove what you say?
Hence the start of Dark AGE of MMOs which as been stated on many gaming sites.
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
and im guessing you didnt understand that statement then...
Let me help you... since 1994 when WOW was released.. it became the MOST successful MMO because of its SUBS numbers...
since 1994, because of that.. they had so many companies looking at WOW as a model they wanted to take up because of it...
Is this WOWs fault.. NO its not... but it is because of their success it influenced many companies to try to model.. COPY what they did and in the end they failed.
understand or you gonna keep on this little pick apart only certain things i say to help prove what you say?
Hence the start of Dark AGE of MMOs which as been stated on many gaming sites.
You meant 2004, not 1994
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
and im guessing you didnt understand that statement then...
Let me help you... since 1994 when WOW was released.. it became the MOST successful MMO because of its SUBS numbers...
since 1994, because of that.. they had so many companies looking at WOW as a model they wanted to take up because of it...
Is this WOWs fault.. NO its not... but it is because of their success it influenced many companies to try to model.. COPY what they did and in the end they failed.
understand or you gonna keep on this little pick apart only certain things i say to help prove what you say?
Hence the start of Dark AGE of MMOs which as been stated on many gaming sites.
You meant 2004, not 1994
yeah thanks for catching the typo
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
but in all honesty.. what game doesnt have its opposing critics... i can tell you that all the games have WoW lovers spamming comparisons to other MMOs that were released.
its still all opinion. Do all WOW fans do it? no they dont.. but you always have some who just utterley love a game so much they can be considered Zealots of WOW.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
The use of adjectives like ignorant and blind for those who do not see its greatness is trolling a bit as well. This is the same dead horse that has been being beaten for years. To the wow fans there is no other game at all. The rest of the world, myself included can name several PC games that are more inavative and fun to play. wow was number 14 on PC Gamers top 100 games of all time list. Throw console games into the mix it would finish even lower. So declaring wow game of the decade is at the very least far fetched.
All the failures of the mmo genre are the fault of the one company that did its job and put out a high quality product. That somehow caused the complete failure of so many other companies to be able to put out a decent mmo.
Damn you blizzard for taking away the ability of every other mmo company to do their job! Damn you to hell and back.
If only Blizzard had never come along, then all those other companies would be producing the top notch work they did prior to world of warcraft ruining the genre. Oh wait....
clear example of WOW effecting an MMO that made companies turn their head and say we will NEVER EVER DO THIS...
SOE did to SWG. SWG was released in 2003.. on year earlier then WOW was released. It was actually the MOST popular MMO out till WOW was released.
It was the Subscription numbers that changed SOEs game to be more like WOW. go try the trial you will see how it is so much like WOW now. PRE CU was nothing like what SWG is today.
And yeah take a look at how many MMOs that were so much like the WOW model... that have failed. and how so many on the forums of the game itself saying why the hell would i play a game that is like WOW when i can just go and play WOW itself. Which is true.
why would i play a game that is trying to clone WOW when I can simply sub up WOW and play it. No reason to play a new game that is LIKE WOW when WOW is already available.
What escapes you is WHY companies were trying to emulate wow. Why people chose wow over other mmos. Why wow had such an effect on the entire genre.
You and others want us to believe that is it due to wow being low quality and bad. No fun, horrible community, terrible everything and whatever other gross over generalization you can think of. To support your claims you talk about hamburgers and stores selling hammers in China. Stunning evidence you have there.
All it takes to see how paper thin the logic of these forums is to look elsewhere. Everywhere else, from critics, competitors, game designers and players alike talk about the high degree of quality that wow delivered. It exposed the shoddy condition that many mmos were in and how soft the entire genre was.
Now is that the fault of one company doing a job well done or the fault of many other companies failing to make something that that can measure up in direct competition?
If you ask the angst generation here, it is the fault of those who succeed.
Ask anywhere else and they rightly place blame on those who fail.
Wow is nothing more than an everquest clone and the everquest model is the basis of almost every fantasy mmo on the market. The inconsistancies of logic around here is so funny.
On one hand people cry about how wow didn't bring one new thing to the genre, nothing.
On the other hand, you cry about how everyone is trying to clone wow as if it is something totally new to the genre.
So which is it? Wow is exactly like everything else or wow is so different that every company is rushing to clone it?
Failed logic is easy to expose.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
The use of adjectives like ignorant and blind for those who do not see its greatness is trolling a bit as well. This is the same dead horse that has been being beaten for years. To the wow fans there is no other game at all. The rest of the world, myself included can name several PC games that are more inavative and fun to play. wow was number 14 on PC Gamers top 100 games of all time list. Throw console games into the mix it would finish even lower. So declaring wow game of the decade is at the very least far fetched.
So your website ranks wow lower, so that must be the truth? I just love how your opinion must be the absolute truth and your website is the correct ranking.
All around it is a stupid discussion, because there is no "best" game when talking about what people enjoy.
To you, wow sucks and anyone who likes it must be crazy and obviously wrong. If they disagree with the nonstop bile you spew then they are infringing on your opinions and how dare they!
There are plenty of games I do not like, but I can recognize the quality they have, because I see the difference between my enjoyment of a game and the actual game itself.
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
but in all honesty.. what game doesnt have its opposing critics... i can tell you that all the games have WoW lovers spamming comparisons to other MMOs that were released.
its still all opinion. Do all WOW fans do it? no they dont.. but you always have some who just utterley love a game so much they can be considered Zealots of WOW.
Then there are people who villify those who have a differing opinion than theirs and label them zealots, fanbois, trolls or whatever.
Like you do with my while crying about my love of wow. Honestly I'm bored with wow and spend the vast majority of my time playing other mmos. I'm not going to turn into a disgruntled quitter and start crying about how wow sucks, just because I'm bored with it.
If someone can give me, 3 things, in the past 6 years WoW has been live, that they pioneered/innovated, I will withhold my rage.
But very likely, you cannot do it. WoW doesn't deserve the title, purely because it is not new, nothing they did was new.
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
and im guessing you didnt understand that statement then...
Let me help you... since 2004 when WOW was released.. it became the MOST successful MMO because of its SUBS numbers...
since 2004, because of that.. they had so many companies looking at WOW as a model they wanted to take up because of it...
Is this WOWs fault.. NO its not... but it is because of their success it influenced many companies to try to model.. COPY what they did and in the end they failed.
understand or you gonna keep on this little pick apart only certain things i say to help prove what you say?
Hence the start of Dark AGE of MMOs which as been stated on many gaming sites.
You know, you can't actually win every argument just by claiming the other guy didn't understand.
Believe it or not, most people do understand basic principles of marketing.
I'll take the first highlight as a concession that your previous logic was faulty.
For the second highlight, I challenge you to cite your sources. The only people I've seen claiming that the genre is "in the dark ages" (and other such negatives) are jaded forumites with a chip on their shoulder and a grudge against WoW.
The genre is growing in popularity, scope and innovation. This is a Golden age for MMOs.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Have you been living in a cave for the last 5 years? Why should we have to prove something that anyone that is not completely ignorant and blind could figure out for themselves in 5 miniutes? It seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Not sure what your beef is with WoW, but it's clouding your judgement in my opinion.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
The use of adjectives like ignorant and blind for those who do not see its greatness is trolling a bit as well. This is the same dead horse that has been being beaten for years. To the wow fans there is no other game at all. The rest of the world, myself included can name several PC games that are more inavative and fun to play. wow was number 14 on PC Gamers top 100 games of all time list. Throw console games into the mix it would finish even lower. So declaring wow game of the decade is at the very least far fetched.
So your website ranks wow lower, so that must be the truth? I just love how your opinion must be the absolute truth and your website is the correct ranking.
All around it is a stupid discussion, because there is no "best" game when talking about what people enjoy.
To you, wow sucks and anyone who likes it must be crazy and obviously wrong. If they disagree with the nonstop bile you spew then they are infringing on your opinions and how dare they!
There are plenty of games I do not like, but I can recognize the quality they have, because I see the difference between my enjoyment of a game and the actual game itself.
iIts not my opinion its PC Gamers opinion. What? Number 14 on the best PC games of all time list isnt good enough for you? And your statement is ass backwards, you know wow is the only game ever to exist and everyone who doesnt know this is crazy. And yes we all know there are plenty of games you do not like, after all blizz didnt make them all. Im sure you will continue your crusade until every gamer in the world is convinced that wow is the ultimate gaming experience, no wait, why limit it to gamers, after all wow brought so many to the genre that you should set your mark higher, how about the entire world. So keep plenty of Mt. Dew near your PC and keep up the fight, its going to be a long battle.
It was the bit where you said:
"The only thing WOW started is an era we like to call a DARK AGE OF MMOs..."
I understand if it's slipped your mind, it was a couple of posts ago.
But it's nice to know I can call you for advice if I'm ever tool-shopping in China.
and im guessing you didnt understand that statement then...
Let me help you... since 2004 when WOW was released.. it became the MOST successful MMO because of its SUBS numbers...
since 2004, because of that.. they had so many companies looking at WOW as a model they wanted to take up because of it...
Is this WOWs fault.. NO its not... but it is because of their success it influenced many companies to try to model.. COPY what they did and in the end they failed.
understand or you gonna keep on this little pick apart only certain things i say to help prove what you say?
Hence the start of Dark AGE of MMOs which as been stated on many gaming sites.
The genre is growing in popularity, scope and innovation. This is a Golden age for MMOs.
Uh, are you kidding? The Golden age for MMOs is long long passed, sorry. We're entering the over instanced, solo/item shop/premium account/short quick McDonalds content age.
The Golden Age was when there were a myriad of successful MMOs out at the same time, all unique to eachother, all coming out with brand new ideas. UO, AC, DAoC, EQ, SWG, AO, all very diverse games, all popular, all new.
And yes, it IS WoW's fault we entered the dark age, if WoW didnt' exist, people wouldn't try to copy them, so it IS traced back to WoW and their business model of targeting people who don't play MMOs. Where's the game for people who DO like MMOs? The several million who were around BEFORE WoW?
You are aware that PC Gamer does this list every year (because new great games appear every year) and it's based on fan votes? And even games that have been around prior to the most recent year get jumbled around each time. For example, WoW was 1 a couple of years ago. These lists by respected sites don't mean too much. All we can most likely agree on as a group is that most of the games in the top 50 at least deserve the top 50...the exact order is upto each of us to determine.
Yeah its a damn shame that not everyone can see the glory of wow. Man whats wrong with people? Did blizzard run out of kook aid or something?
I realize it's not everyone's favorite game, and to some leaves much to be desired, but to deny its general appeal, success, and notoriety is just being a troll in my opinion.
but in all honesty.. what game doesnt have its opposing critics... i can tell you that all the games have WoW lovers spamming comparisons to other MMOs that were released.
its still all opinion. Do all WOW fans do it? no they dont.. but you always have some who just utterley love a game so much they can be considered Zealots of WOW.
Then there are people who villify those who have a differing opinion than theirs and label them zealots, fanbois, trolls or whatever. so basically take your own advice.. you have been doing it consistently to everybody... funny you use the word vilify which is one L by the way. But it is those same strong willed that will come to defend the game.. not the other way around... we give our opinions as to why we dont like the game.. the "fanboys" "zealots" come rushing to defend because OMG we cant have people bashing the best game every, can we? I mean seriously. EVERYBODY MUST LOVE WOW. IF YOU DONT, THEN YOU ARE NOT RIGHT IN THE HEAD. true?
Like you do with my while crying about my love of wow. Honestly I'm bored with wow and spend the vast majority of my time playing other mmos. bored why? maybe because the theme park is not exciting anymore... you have been desensitized? I'm not going to turn into a disgruntled quitter and start crying about how wow sucks, just because I'm bored with it. oh and i never quit WOW in disgrunt.. i just left because the game fell short on a LOT OF THINGS:
WOW i can go into detail what i didnt like it despite the fact the masses played it. again this is my opinion.CRAFTING: was very poor in WOW. I thought it was horrible and useless.
ECONOMY: same very poor. Basically everything you find from drops were sold. Nothing a player can do to actually make money from crafting. the best gear in game was not craftable. It sits in a dungeon. This to ME, is killer. Why i would not put WOW up on such a high pedestal. I never liked this model of play. Id prefer the player be allowed to create the items needed for other players.
Linear gameplay: I didnt like the fact that once you leave the area you are pretty much done with it. Basically you moved thru the land to level up... tiered so you can continue on with your character development. I would prefer a more open world with choices of where to go level and do stuff rather then this spot is for 1-5 and the next spot is for 5-9 etc etc... of course this is only my personal opinion and how i feel.
quests... not thought out.. very boring.. go here kill 10 things go here kill 20 things... hey get my necklace the fat pig has it. go kill him.... do this for x amount of levels. Yuck.
classes.. very limited.. not many....
races.. . not many... very limited
castle sieging... do they even have castles or keeps to siege? not really.. all pvp that has purpose is isntanced.. otherwise it is a mass of poeple sitting in one spot or a city waiting for another mass to come by and see who is last man standing.
Housing... non existant.
graphics... umm cartoony pastel graphics not comparable to even an older game like dark age of camelot. the graphics are better in that game and its an extremely older game then WOW.
player city... no opportunity in this game
seamless World... nope non existant
character customization... i will give it some credit here however they still need to fix there trees so that there isnt only one or two viable ways lessing the customization.
yeah they may have all the subs that surpass all other MMOs but bottom line is it because its a good game? Is it because it is easier on a low grade computer? Is it because warcraft RTS series was such a huge success worldwide for such a LONG TIME? Do you possibly know these answers? No you dont.. neither do . But i can give you my opinions as to why I dont think its a good game...
Where are the other great MMOs? EverQuest? Dark Age of Camelot? Ultima Online? Star Wars Galaxies? All of which have massive amounts of unique features that WoW STILL doesn't have. They were standard 10 years ago, but now people are satisfied with their simple little WoW.
Exactly. Its up to individuals to decide the order. Not a magazine, website or fanboy. But the crusade will continue because the wow fanboys cannot just enjoy their game, they need to convince all those who do not share their love for the game as well reinforce to themselves that the game is worth their time.
Uh, are you kidding? The Golden age for MMOs is long long passed, sorry. We're entering the over instanced, solo/item shop/premium account/short quick McDonalds content age.
Ah, that's a new McDonalds analogy. WoW is like McDonalds because it's provides quick access to content? .. well shiver me timbers here, Captain but I ain't seeing a downside to that one. Your contention is that there should be a big delay in accessing content?
Perhaps a peripheral USB device that harshly paddles your buttocks every time you die?
The Golden Age was when there were a myriad of successful MMOs out at the same time, all unique to eachother, all coming out with brand new ideas. UO, AC, DAoC, EQ, SWG, AO, all very diverse games, all popular, all new.
Faulty logic. There are dozens of successful MMOs out right now.
An MMO doesn't need 11 million subscribers to be successful.
And yes, it IS WoW's fault we entered the dark age, if WoW didnt' exist, people wouldn't try to copy them, so it IS traced back to WoW and their business model of targeting people who don't play MMOs. Where's the game for people who DO like MMOs? The several million who were around BEFORE WoW?
I started playing in 1999 with UO; I play WoW now.
Evolution is tricky; not all the dinosaurs survive it. I'm one of the ones that did.
You're not speaking for everyone who played MMOs pre-WoW.
You're asking where the games are for people who enjoy your narrow niche; they're still there .. small budget or 10 years old, but still there. You can't expect $100m development budgets to cater for a small market, especially one that can't agree on what they want.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Uh, are you kidding? The Golden age for MMOs is long long passed, sorry. We're entering the over instanced, solo/item shop/premium account/short quick McDonalds content age.
Ah, that's a new McDonalds analogy. WoW is like McDonalds because it's provides quick access to content? .. well shiver me timbers here, Captain but I ain't seeing a downside to that one. Your contention is that there should be a big delay in accessing content?
Perhaps a peripheral USB device that harshly paddles your buttocks every time you die?
The Golden Age was when there were a myriad of successful MMOs out at the same time, all unique to eachother, all coming out with brand new ideas. UO, AC, DAoC, EQ, SWG, AO, all very diverse games, all popular, all new.
Faulty logic. There are dozens of successful MMOs out right now.
An MMO doesn't need 11 million subscribers to be successful.
And yes, it IS WoW's fault we entered the dark age, if WoW didnt' exist, people wouldn't try to copy them, so it IS traced back to WoW and their business model of targeting people who don't play MMOs. Where's the game for people who DO like MMOs? The several million who were around BEFORE WoW?
I started playing in 1999 with UO; I play WoW now.
Evolution is tricky; not all the dinosaurs survive it. I'm one of the ones that did.
You're not speaking for everyone who played MMOs pre-WoW.
You're asking where the games are for people who enjoy your narrow niche; they're still there .. small budget or 10 years old, but still there. You can't expect $100m development budgets to cater for a small market, especially one that can't agree on what they want.
You seem very confused. You don't seem to be able to see the difference between an actually full developed game world, and the type of content being offered by WoW and the new Star Wars MMO.
Instances, item shops, quest based leveling, broken linear world, it's starting to not even resemble an MMO. Look at EverQuest's world, and look at WoW's. If EQ can manage what it did in 1999, and WOW can't even live up to it's shadow, something is wrong.