How is it any different? You kill mobs for a few months before you are strong enough to PvP. Every mmo i've played is exactly like that. Instead of seeing a character level go from 1-80 or 1-50 or whatever you get to watch your skills go from 1-100, which is really no different.
How is it any different? You kill mobs for a few months before you are strong enough to PvP. Every mmo i've played is exactly like that. Instead of seeing a character level go from 1-80 or 1-50 or whatever you get to watch your skills go from 1-100, which is really no different.
It sounds to me like you have a problem MMOs in general. Maybe you should give single player games with hacks a shot, you know, max out your character stats and such. That way you could entirely avoid the hassle of playing the game and get right to the uber-godlike mode. Why be bothered with all the nuances of game play and character advancement when you can just skip it?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
How is it any different? You kill mobs for a few months before you are strong enough to PvP. Every mmo i've played is exactly like that. Instead of seeing a character level go from 1-80 or 1-50 or whatever you get to watch your skills go from 1-100, which is really no different.
It sounds to me like you have a problem with games in general. Maybe you should give single player games with hacks a shot, you know, max out your character stats and such. That way you could entirely avoid the hassle of playing the game and get right to the uber-godlike mode. Why be bothered with all the nuances of game play when you can just skip it?
Actually I would highly recommend Combat Arms to this user. This game has a lot to offer for someone with his play style preference.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm playing darkfall right now. Can't you see my signature? I have to increase my PvE numbers. If this was a bad game I wouldn't play it. I realize I have to grind mobs for months so I can kill people. I bought this game knowing that I would have to kill thousands of mobs just to kill people, just like every other game. The problem is when people lie saying that you don't need to kill mobs etc, telling this to people who are thinking about buying the game. I am simply offering a true look at what you can expect from this game. I've only been playing for about 2 weeks so I know exactly what anyone who gets this game can expect.
I realize I have to grind mobs for months so I can kill people. I bought this game knowing that I would have to kill thousands of mobs just to kill people, just like every other game. The problem is when people lie saying that you don't need to kill mobs
No, you can kill people right now if you want.
I have been pvping (dieing and killing) since the first days I have played (and this was 1 week ago).
You can kill everyone close to or lower than your skill level. People are joining Darkfall every day. You can kill them.
This is nothing new to pvp games. In L2, AoC,... it is also difficult to kill higher level players. In WAR a lower level player also can't kill a higher level, so they did it differently: they zoned the whole game in tiers so you never see the higher level players - breaking the world immersion.
Darkfall is not an instanced world.
As for your last point, everyone knows Darkfall is PVE + PVP. Who said you don't have to kill mobs in Darkfall? AFAIK there is only 1 mmorpg you can play without killing mobs: WAR - and its completely zoned. Technically, you could play Darkfall without ever killing a mob, it would probably take you more than 1 year to level your skills though (this is thanks to the macroers).
Yes, in a competitive game, people cheat. So the game has to adapt. And then you complain...
I realize I have to grind mobs for months so I can kill people. I bought this game knowing that I would have to kill thousands of mobs just to kill people, just like every other game. The problem is when people lie saying that you don't need to kill mobs
No, you can kill people right now if you want.
I have been pvping (dieing and killing) since the first days I have played (and this was 1 week ago).
You can kill everyone close to or lower than your skill level. People are joining Darkfall every day. You can kill them.
This is nothing new to pvp games. In L2, AoC,... it is also difficult to kill higher level players. In WAR a lower level player also can't kill a higher level, so they did it differently: they zoned the whole game in tiers so you never see the higher level players - breaking the world immersion.
Darkfall is not an instanced world.
As for your last point, everyone knows Darkfall is PVE + PVP. Who said you don't have to kill mobs in Darkfall? AFAIK there is only 1 mmorpg you can play without killing mobs: WAR - and its completely zoned. Technically, you could play Darkfall without ever killing a mob, it would probably take you more than 1 year to level your skills though (this is thanks to the macroers).
Yes, in a competitive game, people cheat. So the game has to adapt. And then you complain...
You can't see my signature? I've killed people already. I try to PvP daily, searching for the 3-5 people on the entire server that are similar skill level to myself. It's hard to find someone that you can actually kill unless you go straight to the starter area goblin camps etc. Usually I kill 2-3 afk'ers before someone kills me so fast I cant even fight back, and that will happen to every single person that tries eventually, which is why you have to kill so many mobs. If you want to be able to PvP without a 95% or greater chance that you will get assraped, you have to kill thousands of mobs. Please stop trying to encourage newbies to PvP without killing a large amount of mobs, it will only distort their view of the game and make them angry when they realize they have to kill so many mobs.
You can't see my signature? I've killed people already. I try to PvP daily, searching for the 3-5 people on the entire server that are similar skill level to myself. It's hard to find someone that you can actually kill unless you go straight to the starter area goblin camps etc. Usually I kill 2-3 afk'ers before someone kills me so fast I cant even fight back, and that will happen to every single person that tries eventually, which is why you have to kill so many mobs.
This is not a problem for me, as I prefer the completely seamless open world to the zoned/instanced games like WAR/Aion.
But I do agree with you. That's why I like to travel to the enemy starter areas, that's where my opponents are (I'm only a little over 1 week old).
Actually, I think the game should add some spying/sabotage quests that require you to go to those enemy areas. (but this would probably make it to difficult for most newbies - getting ganked by the questing people). But I see you are 2 months old, the game should add such quests in your skill range.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though.
What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever.
The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable?
Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe.
It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume?
What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along.
Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
If you want to fight with an 8 month old character you will lose. You can compete with characters as developed as you are, or you can develop yourself further to have an advantage over lesser developed character and stand your ground with similarly developed characters. This isn't an FPS, and you won't be even from day one it just isn't the case. Now if it was what would it be like? With 1 week old players being able to stand their ground against 7 month old players? Who knows. I am sure it would be fun at the beginning, but long term I don't think it would work out too well.
If you want to fight with an 8 month old character you will lose.
After 20 pages and 206 posts you still dont realize that this is the whole point of the insane PvE grind that the OP is talking about??? Nobody cares about being able to demolish the 2% of the population that is weaker than you (good luck finding them anyway), and the only way to place your character into the upper percentiles where you can compete with people who have been playing for a while is to GRIND PVE. For months.
Stated in the most inflammatory way possible? Check
Highly combative? Check
Selective responses? Check
Mind clearly made up? Check
Pretending to want "debate" when really just spoiling for a fight? Check
Highly controling, dictating who is allowed to post, etc? Check
Preaching to a well known criticism of the game from a vocal contingent? Check
Doing it in a way that is deliberately myopic, obnoxious and unhelpful? Check
Immediate flaming of critics or disentors? Check
Yep... Thats a ten out of ten... Clear trolling. Call it a wrap. And yes, I play Darkfall, but no, I don't know all that much about the game as I just started. Could be the basis of the original point is true, but thats immaterial. This post is pure trolling/flame bait. Some of the most obnoxious trolls/flame baiters actually do grasp onto a kernel of truth. They just take it to the most obnoxious and unhelpful place possible nulifying the possibility of any meaningful discussion because their real goal is just conflict.
I think the questions of game balance, character development, quality of PVE content, quality of the character development experience, value of the game to anyone not a "vet" etc are all things very much worth discussing and possibly areas of serious concern for DF, but its certainly not worth discussing in a thread like this with the tone set by the OP. A thread like this is just a mask for a "F U DF SUX!!!!" vs "NO, F U, YOU DONT KNOW JACK!" pissing contest.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player. If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete. And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
Just for the record I am an EVE Vet who hasn't had a sub to the game since I started playing Darkfall in October. Yes "even EVE players" are wasting their time in DF. Does this negate your logical assumption?
It's perfectly acceptable to wonder if the OP is trolling. Calling this a PVE game is like me walking into the WOW forums and announcing that WOW is an open world PVP non-instanced game. That's either Trolling, or it's just me displaying a rather large desire for some internet attention. If you actually go through some of the threads the OP has created, you might share the same opinion.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
What is being PVP ready for you? To me, being one is being able to compete vs a vet 1 on 1.
By the players that know what they are doing, what do you mean? You can only have 1 character per account and not all players want to get spoiled by guides or stuff like that, but it seem like an obligation. Forcing us to join a clan in DF in order to catch up faster is the most stupid thing i heard; it make DF being less about sandbox because if it wear one, a player would had been able to catch up by simply playing alone and often joining random players. By joining a clan, do you guys mean joining a large one or simply joining any clan? What if i join a clan with 10-20 players only, will it count as an other clan you ask ppl to join?
Joining a clan in darkfall helps you learn and experience darkfall faster, because your around other people who will share their knowledge with you, which you can use to your advantage, like whats a good thing to do in certain situations, what players you might want to be carefull about, where is a good spot to do this and that and so on. Being a solo player is completly possible of course although it might be a little harder.
People that don't play darkfall really need to stop saying that it isn't a sandbox game.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though. What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever. The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable? Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe. It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume? What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along. Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
What is being PVP ready for you? To me, being one is being able to compete vs a vet 1 on 1.
By the players that know what they are doing, what do you mean? You can only have 1 character per account and not all players want to get spoiled by guides or stuff like that, but it seem like an obligation. Forcing us to join a clan in DF in order to catch up faster is the most stupid thing i heard; it make DF being less about sandbox because if it wear one, a player would had been able to catch up by simply playing alone and often joining random players. By joining a clan, do you guys mean joining a large one or simply joining any clan? What if i join a clan with 10-20 players only, will it count as an other clan you ask ppl to join?
PvP ready for hybird means to be able to 1v1
2 r50 nukes at level 75, 1 r90 nuke to level 50+, witches brew, transfers, 50+ 2h mastery.
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous. Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting. The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple. Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
Nobody with any sense wants DF to become mainstream. In fact I'd say a population much larger than the one right now (on NA-1) would actually make for less interesting gameplay(zomg zergs) and a much less newbie friendly environment.
The problems that you mentioned are minor to the type of person who'd be willing to spend time in a full loot MMO for any duration anyway.
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous. Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting. The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple. Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
Nobody with any sense wants DF to become mainstream. In fact I'd say a population much larger than the one right now (on NA-1) would actually make for less interesting gameplay(zomg zergs) and a much less newbie friendly environment.
The problems that you mentioned are minor to the type of person who'd be willing to spend time in a full loot MMO for any duration anyway.
I agree. I am pretty happy with the population as it is right now. More people wouldnt hurt, but a lot more i think could ruin the feel of the game as it is right now imo. I find people everywhere i go.
Also, one other thing. A group of vets raided a hamlet where i was banking. One of the players i have been killed by many times in the past and didnt really stand a chance. This time i actually had my best weapon out and got him down to 1/5 of his health bar. I have only been playing for about 3.5 months. Take it for what you will as far as how quickly you can be pvp ready.
Hello. I just started playing Darkfall like 3 weeks ago. I came from World of Warcraft where I was a well respected raid leader on my server. I came to Darkfall to try a new game (still subbed to WoW though ). I love the fact that the world is so huge. I can easily farm materials uninteruppted wherever I want. The crafting system is amazing. It takes a good part of the day to craft a weapons, but the sense of accomplisment you get when you finally craft that axe...makes me want to go farm right now. This game has the best mob AI EVER!!!! It even beats WoWs PvE. It is actually fun to grind for hours. It is a bit different that you have to level up axe, then axe mastery. I am used to just Axe lol, but i guess its ok, it will keep be busy . There is so much to do in this game, i just wish there were more players, I dont see many people around . Overall I hope other mmorpg creaters see this games pve content, take it and expand on it. I can see myself playing this for a couple years. See you all in game!
send me in game if your guild needs a raid leader.
i just wish there were more players, I dont see many people around .
Hehe we all do.
That`s the reason we have these discussions. How can we get more players and how can we make players stay, that`s the questions. I have killed more than 18000 mobs, and belive me novelty goes away after a few thousand NPC.
The large PVP fights however are the beauty in Darkfall. If you are lucky enough to take part in shipbattles with 50 or more players on each ships, large sieges without the lag /disconect or just plain open field PVP with more than 50 players you will know.
Comments
Seriously?
Yes apparently. It's the same in every post.
How is it any different? You kill mobs for a few months before you are strong enough to PvP. Every mmo i've played is exactly like that. Instead of seeing a character level go from 1-80 or 1-50 or whatever you get to watch your skills go from 1-100, which is really no different.
Seriously?
Yes apparently. It's the same in every post.
How is it any different? You kill mobs for a few months before you are strong enough to PvP. Every mmo i've played is exactly like that. Instead of seeing a character level go from 1-80 or 1-50 or whatever you get to watch your skills go from 1-100, which is really no different.
It sounds to me like you have a problem MMOs in general. Maybe you should give single player games with hacks a shot, you know, max out your character stats and such. That way you could entirely avoid the hassle of playing the game and get right to the uber-godlike mode. Why be bothered with all the nuances of game play and character advancement when you can just skip it?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It sounds to me like you have a problem with games in general. Maybe you should give single player games with hacks a shot, you know, max out your character stats and such. That way you could entirely avoid the hassle of playing the game and get right to the uber-godlike mode. Why be bothered with all the nuances of game play when you can just skip it?
Actually I would highly recommend Combat Arms to this user. This game has a lot to offer for someone with his play style preference.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm playing darkfall right now. Can't you see my signature? I have to increase my PvE numbers. If this was a bad game I wouldn't play it. I realize I have to grind mobs for months so I can kill people. I bought this game knowing that I would have to kill thousands of mobs just to kill people, just like every other game. The problem is when people lie saying that you don't need to kill mobs etc, telling this to people who are thinking about buying the game. I am simply offering a true look at what you can expect from this game. I've only been playing for about 2 weeks so I know exactly what anyone who gets this game can expect.
No, you can kill people right now if you want.
I have been pvping (dieing and killing) since the first days I have played (and this was 1 week ago).
You can kill everyone close to or lower than your skill level. People are joining Darkfall every day. You can kill them.
This is nothing new to pvp games. In L2, AoC,... it is also difficult to kill higher level players. In WAR a lower level player also can't kill a higher level, so they did it differently: they zoned the whole game in tiers so you never see the higher level players - breaking the world immersion.
Darkfall is not an instanced world.
As for your last point, everyone knows Darkfall is PVE + PVP. Who said you don't have to kill mobs in Darkfall? AFAIK there is only 1 mmorpg you can play without killing mobs: WAR - and its completely zoned. Technically, you could play Darkfall without ever killing a mob, it would probably take you more than 1 year to level your skills though (this is thanks to the macroers).
Yes, in a competitive game, people cheat. So the game has to adapt. And then you complain...
No, you can kill people right now if you want.
I have been pvping (dieing and killing) since the first days I have played (and this was 1 week ago).
You can kill everyone close to or lower than your skill level. People are joining Darkfall every day. You can kill them.
This is nothing new to pvp games. In L2, AoC,... it is also difficult to kill higher level players. In WAR a lower level player also can't kill a higher level, so they did it differently: they zoned the whole game in tiers so you never see the higher level players - breaking the world immersion.
Darkfall is not an instanced world.
As for your last point, everyone knows Darkfall is PVE + PVP. Who said you don't have to kill mobs in Darkfall? AFAIK there is only 1 mmorpg you can play without killing mobs: WAR - and its completely zoned. Technically, you could play Darkfall without ever killing a mob, it would probably take you more than 1 year to level your skills though (this is thanks to the macroers).
Yes, in a competitive game, people cheat. So the game has to adapt. And then you complain...
You can't see my signature? I've killed people already. I try to PvP daily, searching for the 3-5 people on the entire server that are similar skill level to myself. It's hard to find someone that you can actually kill unless you go straight to the starter area goblin camps etc. Usually I kill 2-3 afk'ers before someone kills me so fast I cant even fight back, and that will happen to every single person that tries eventually, which is why you have to kill so many mobs. If you want to be able to PvP without a 95% or greater chance that you will get assraped, you have to kill thousands of mobs. Please stop trying to encourage newbies to PvP without killing a large amount of mobs, it will only distort their view of the game and make them angry when they realize they have to kill so many mobs.
This is not a problem for me, as I prefer the completely seamless open world to the zoned/instanced games like WAR/Aion.
But I do agree with you. That's why I like to travel to the enemy starter areas, that's where my opponents are (I'm only a little over 1 week old).
Actually, I think the game should add some spying/sabotage quests that require you to go to those enemy areas. (but this would probably make it to difficult for most newbies - getting ganked by the questing people). But I see you are 2 months old, the game should add such quests in your skill range.
First off, I've not read the whole thread, only the first 12 pages ( took too long and was noticing something common). Second, I haven't played Darkfall. I am an Eve player though.
What I'm noticing here is different definitions of "PvP". The OP et al are arguing this game is mostly PvE, because you can't PvP without first PvE'ing (and continuing to PvE in order to remain competitive). The Darkfall fans are countering you can PvP, even a week after joining. You just have to heal someone else in a big fight or whatever.
The problem with this is, is it really PvP, if you're casting small heals on some other dude? Sure, healing is an important part of PvP, but what difference would there have been had you not been there? I don't know the scaling of difference between heals from a vet player and heals from a newb, but the OP appears to suggest the gap is large - so much so that the newbs heals are virtually worthless. Of course, the clan may appreciate those heals as making some difference, but how much enjoyment can a player extract from this? Some people can, but I surely wouldn't, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of people would not enjoy that. It's the same as in for example WoW - you can heal a level 80 as a level 40, and your heals are of some use. But why would you want to? Just so you can compete in proper PvP? When a game requires you stretch the definition of enjoyment and contribution this far, is it really viable?
Thus the OP suggests, PvE becomes the only option for the first few months. I'd like to add to the OP's argument here, that even if you do some PvP every so often, the game still sounds like it's majorly based on grinding skills. Even the players arguing against the OP don't seem to deny this. Which surely makes the PvE element much larger than I have been led to believe.
It also sounds like player distribution is a major problem - in order to find players, you must search for a long time (if looking for world PvP with you/small group.), which I don't doubt would feel aimless. In Eve, you can camp a gate, and there are a variety of sensor methods to find players in 0.0 sec, not to mention the new wormholes. In DF it sounds like the only alternative to aimless wandering, is attacking a player city resource hub or whatever to nick some ore and piss off some players, the reward being the ore, the consequence being pvp I assume?
What seems to be a bit problem in the PvP of this game (as best I can guess without having played it) appears to be the reward of PvP. Outside of clan sieges, you only have the loot of the other player to compel you to kill them, and few weapon hits (that would skill much better in PvE) (ignoring the satisfaction of annoying them, which I've found gets old). The problem with loot being the only reason, is people stop carrying loot. In eve you can salvage the wrecks of destroyed ships. On a large ship this can get you extremely valuable items from their ship, despite the ship not having had anything useful equipped. This drives PvP and adds another level to it - an RNG element which helps the game along.
Personally I'd suggest some easy fixes to these problems being, PvP weapon attacks levelling skills much faster, and RNG drops on players of some kind. This opens the game to some abuse, as players take turns killing each other. Perhaps a dimishing returns system on each player would help this? Anyway, who knows. Just some observations.
If you want to fight with an 8 month old character you will lose. You can compete with characters as developed as you are, or you can develop yourself further to have an advantage over lesser developed character and stand your ground with similarly developed characters. This isn't an FPS, and you won't be even from day one it just isn't the case. Now if it was what would it be like? With 1 week old players being able to stand their ground against 7 month old players? Who knows. I am sure it would be fun at the beginning, but long term I don't think it would work out too well.
I am sure we will see with CoD mmo.
After 20 pages and 206 posts you still dont realize that this is the whole point of the insane PvE grind that the OP is talking about??? Nobody cares about being able to demolish the 2% of the population that is weaker than you (good luck finding them anyway), and the only way to place your character into the upper percentiles where you can compete with people who have been playing for a while is to GRIND PVE. For months.
Hmmm... lets check the score...
Extreme opinion? Check
Stated in the most inflammatory way possible? Check
Highly combative? Check
Selective responses? Check
Mind clearly made up? Check
Pretending to want "debate" when really just spoiling for a fight? Check
Highly controling, dictating who is allowed to post, etc? Check
Preaching to a well known criticism of the game from a vocal contingent? Check
Doing it in a way that is deliberately myopic, obnoxious and unhelpful? Check
Immediate flaming of critics or disentors? Check
Yep... Thats a ten out of ten... Clear trolling. Call it a wrap. And yes, I play Darkfall, but no, I don't know all that much about the game as I just started. Could be the basis of the original point is true, but thats immaterial. This post is pure trolling/flame bait. Some of the most obnoxious trolls/flame baiters actually do grasp onto a kernel of truth. They just take it to the most obnoxious and unhelpful place possible nulifying the possibility of any meaningful discussion because their real goal is just conflict.
I think the questions of game balance, character development, quality of PVE content, quality of the character development experience, value of the game to anyone not a "vet" etc are all things very much worth discussing and possibly areas of serious concern for DF, but its certainly not worth discussing in a thread like this with the tone set by the OP. A thread like this is just a mask for a "F U DF SUX!!!!" vs "NO, F U, YOU DONT KNOW JACK!" pissing contest.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Just for the record I am an EVE Vet who hasn't had a sub to the game since I started playing Darkfall in October. Yes "even EVE players" are wasting their time in DF. Does this negate your logical assumption?
It's perfectly acceptable to wonder if the OP is trolling. Calling this a PVE game is like me walking into the WOW forums and announcing that WOW is an open world PVP non-instanced game. That's either Trolling, or it's just me displaying a rather large desire for some internet attention. If you actually go through some of the threads the OP has created, you might share the same opinion.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
What is being PVP ready for you? To me, being one is being able to compete vs a vet 1 on 1.
By the players that know what they are doing, what do you mean? You can only have 1 character per account and not all players want to get spoiled by guides or stuff like that, but it seem like an obligation. Forcing us to join a clan in DF in order to catch up faster is the most stupid thing i heard; it make DF being less about sandbox because if it wear one, a player would had been able to catch up by simply playing alone and often joining random players. By joining a clan, do you guys mean joining a large one or simply joining any clan? What if i join a clan with 10-20 players only, will it count as an other clan you ask ppl to join?
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Joining a clan in darkfall helps you learn and experience darkfall faster, because your around other people who will share their knowledge with you, which you can use to your advantage, like whats a good thing to do in certain situations, what players you might want to be carefull about, where is a good spot to do this and that and so on. Being a solo player is completly possible of course although it might be a little harder.
People that don't play darkfall really need to stop saying that it isn't a sandbox game.
This had to be the best and most accurate post by someone who dont have any experience about darkfall and from a EVE player.
If in general, this is how eve players see's darkfall, i really start to think days after days that darkfall is dying. We all dont care about the wow players or theme parks players that wont touch a game with full loot and open world pvp, but if even EVE players dont want to waste their time in DF, there is no chance for that game. I never played Eve online, but i might try the trial and maybe buy it if its that good while im waiting for Mortal Online to be complete.
And the guy above me, i did read your post, but you lost all your credibility when you named the OP a troll; the worst way to defend darkfall and its not working so find something else. You denied yourself by calling him a troll so now, you are made yourself being pointless for that threads made to newcomers to let them know how DF really is.
1) DFO doesn't need random drops from PvP to make it intresting. The full loot aspect is enough in most cases since everyone finds a use for everything. However, I wouldn't mind being able to skin rare enchant material from players. That would be awesome.
2) The grind isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I would say its less than EvE because in EvE you can't make it go faster (unless they changed something)
3) You don't need to spend moths grinding PvE to be good in PvP. 1-2 months is plenty for group battles.
4) The only real advantage a vet has over a new player is HP which is easily adjusted without diminishing the grind that doesn't really exist (Spell canting being the execption)
5) The only thing that DFO lacks are "hot spots" but thats largely the players fault and not game's design, Sure, AV could do more to make capping villages worth more, make trade routes more attractive, etc but the primary reason there aren't hot spots is because people are too chicken to leave their cities. When you are in a "zerg" alliance and clan and you do nothing but sit in a city all day and no one groups up to do anything but zerg another city down what do you expect?
Not true. A vet will have leveled his skills far and away above a new player with 1-2 months game time. They will simply on the merits of time spent in game also have in thier possession many more tools, IE, magic schools that are advanced etc. It is frankly laughable to make the assertion a new player can compete with vets in any catagory. So stating the HP differential is pretty much it is disingenous.
Further, you may remember our in game chat from last night. The above isnt even close to being Darkfalls greatest failing. A new player can be prevented from advancing at all simply because of the lousy alignment/war dec system. To add insult to injury a vet can simply jump on your head in or out of town to prevent you for doing the most basic thing like harvesting.
The game world is interesting, the pve is fun, the pvp outstanding, but the grind, and the other issues I mentioned above will insure DFO will never become mainstream. Its that simple.
Engaging in arguement to say that isnt the case falls really flat to anyone who has actually tried the game. And frankly ever day I log in the less I want to play. At any rate I made my donation to a indy dev...
A person can get pvp capable in 1-2months time, 3-4 if they don't know what they are doing. This is a problem due to people getting killed often. I do tink the grind should be reduced, but only in certain areas, mainly HP. Everything else I said is true; a person can get decent melee mastery, maxed archery, and 2 schools to 75 with high level in r50 nukes in that time period. However, the grifing is not nearly as bad as it was at launch.
What is being PVP ready for you? To me, being one is being able to compete vs a vet 1 on 1.
By the players that know what they are doing, what do you mean? You can only have 1 character per account and not all players want to get spoiled by guides or stuff like that, but it seem like an obligation. Forcing us to join a clan in DF in order to catch up faster is the most stupid thing i heard; it make DF being less about sandbox because if it wear one, a player would had been able to catch up by simply playing alone and often joining random players. By joining a clan, do you guys mean joining a large one or simply joining any clan? What if i join a clan with 10-20 players only, will it count as an other clan you ask ppl to join?
PvP ready for hybird means to be able to 1v1
2 r50 nukes at level 75, 1 r90 nuke to level 50+, witches brew, transfers, 50+ 2h mastery.
Less for groups
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Nobody with any sense wants DF to become mainstream. In fact I'd say a population much larger than the one right now (on NA-1) would actually make for less interesting gameplay(zomg zergs) and a much less newbie friendly environment.
The problems that you mentioned are minor to the type of person who'd be willing to spend time in a full loot MMO for any duration anyway.
Nobody with any sense wants DF to become mainstream. In fact I'd say a population much larger than the one right now (on NA-1) would actually make for less interesting gameplay(zomg zergs) and a much less newbie friendly environment.
The problems that you mentioned are minor to the type of person who'd be willing to spend time in a full loot MMO for any duration anyway.
I agree. I am pretty happy with the population as it is right now. More people wouldnt hurt, but a lot more i think could ruin the feel of the game as it is right now imo. I find people everywhere i go.
Also, one other thing. A group of vets raided a hamlet where i was banking. One of the players i have been killed by many times in the past and didnt really stand a chance. This time i actually had my best weapon out and got him down to 1/5 of his health bar. I have only been playing for about 3.5 months. Take it for what you will as far as how quickly you can be pvp ready.
Hello. I just started playing Darkfall like 3 weeks ago. I came from World of Warcraft where I was a well respected raid leader on my server. I came to Darkfall to try a new game (still subbed to WoW though
). I love the fact that the world is so huge. I can easily farm materials uninteruppted wherever I want. The crafting system is amazing. It takes a good part of the day to craft a weapons, but the sense of accomplisment you get when you finally craft that axe...makes me want to go farm right now. This game has the best mob AI EVER!!!! It even beats WoWs PvE. It is actually fun to grind for hours. It is a bit different that you have to level up axe, then axe mastery. I am used to just Axe lol, but i guess its ok, it will keep be busy 
. There is so much to do in this game, i just wish there were more players, I dont see many people around 
. Overall I hope other mmorpg creaters see this games pve content, take it and expand on it. I can see myself playing this for a couple years. See you all in game!
send me in game if your guild needs a raid leader.
Hehe we all do.
That`s the reason we have these discussions. How can we get more players and how can we make players stay, that`s the questions. I have killed more than 18000 mobs, and belive me novelty goes away after a few thousand NPC.
The large PVP fights however are the beauty in Darkfall. If you are lucky enough to take part in shipbattles with 50 or more players on each ships, large sieges without the lag /disconect or just plain open field PVP with more than 50 players you will know.
Best - troll - EVER.
10/10, you sir get all the cookies.