Come on guys I think it is obvious that what I am getting at is that free play is part of the lure. Clearly if you just play for free you are not getting scammed, but these companies don’t make their money from free players. Also I except that some players pay a modicum and nothing more but that is not the point. Those players who pay little or nothing are the poor men of the game, marginalised even if they are the majority. While many of those who do pay often get caught up in the scam. As mentioned before we get a ‘I was scammed’ thread here about once every two weeks, and those are just the people with enough character not to worry they might look a bit silly admitting to it.
One thing more though, what it the point of playing a MMO that has a glass ceiling for those who do not pay? Each to their own, but that just seems pointless to me.
Its obvious you have no idea what a scam really is. You know exactly what you're getting and how much it costs. What part of that is a scam?
Your view of Free to play MMORPGS is for the most part completely off. The vast majority of those games offer access to all gameplay content free of charge.
F2P is a buisness model that is no more scam than P2P. In fact P2P is MORE of a scam since the last few years have been littered with titels that ppl are duped into pre-order based on hypes - then to realise the game is not even half finised. And ... you will have to pay sub for months and months before things are actually fixed. Even years like in WAR and AOC.
Come on guys I think it is obvious that what I am getting at is that free play is part of the lure. Clearly if you just play for free you are not getting scammed, but these companies don’t make their money from free players. Also I except that some players pay a modicum and nothing more but that is not the point. Those players who pay little or nothing are the poor men of the game, marginalised even if they are the majority. While many of those who do pay often get caught up in the scam. As mentioned before we get a ‘I was scammed’ thread here about once every two weeks, and those are just the people with enough character not to worry they might look a bit silly admitting to it.
One thing more though, what it the point of playing a MMO that has a glass ceiling for those who do not pay? Each to their own, but that just seems pointless to me.
The point is to have fun. It is actually quite simple, as demonstrated by MILLIONS of players. All games end. A free game last for a while is better than no game at all.
Have you ever played a SP game? What is the point of playing HALO when it is going to end? What is the point of playing Halo 2 if I don't play Halo 3? Who cares about a "glass ceiling"? You play the free content and move on to another game after all the free content is gone. THAT is the point.
And you ADMIT that "Clearly if you just play for free you are not getting scammed" .. then how could it be a scam if you already have a CHOICE of not to pay? You logic fails.
For lack of or for defects in which essential elements of contractual formation will a contract be deemed relatively null? Capacity, consent, and cause.
What kinds of defects in capacity produce relative nullity? All of the incapacities of exercise, i.e., minority (unemancipated), interdiction, and deprivation of reason, produce relative nullities. The same is true of those unusual incapacities of enjoyment that don't violate rules of public order (if there are any).
What kinds of defects in consent produce relative nullity? All of the vices of consent, i.e., error, fraud, duress, and lesion.
What kinds of defects in cause produce relative nullity? According to some authorities (the better-reasoned ones, in my judgment), absent and false cause.
The consumers will is viced by many reasons, therefore stop the "its free, because noone is physically forcing you to pay". There is moral and mental ways to force someone and they all incur in the same effects. Doesnt matter, really.
edit: this post took me 25 seconds.
"We call vices of agreements whatever injures their nature and essential characteristics..." They say its free, but everything on it injures its nature and essential characteristics, therefore making it pay to win.
Perhaps you should also search around (especially in this thread), where we have said many times that MANY F2P MMOs offer FLUFF items. Fluff items are not necessary to win. You won't kick more asses because your character looks cool, you are on even ground with other players.
Hell, some F2Ps now even allow players to re-sell cash shop items through in-game currency, allowing even the non-payers to gain access to some items that are technically game-breaking to some extent, are now accessible even if you don't pay. Good exemple of this is the Avatars in Dungeon Fighters which gives rather interesting bonuses to stats. Players can re-sell those avatars to other players so there's no "imbalance" issue between players (and no there is no lack of avatars, I wouldn't be lying if I said that 90% of the Player Shops on Dungeon Fighter are selling Avatar Items)
For lack of or for defects in which essential elements of contractual formation will a contract be deemed relatively null? Capacity, consent, and cause.
What kinds of defects in capacity produce relative nullity? All of the incapacities of exercise, i.e., minority (unemancipated), interdiction, and deprivation of reason, produce relative nullities. The same is true of those unusual incapacities of enjoyment that don't violate rules of public order (if there are any).
What kinds of defects in consent produce relative nullity? All of the vices of consent, i.e., error, fraud, duress, and lesion.
What kinds of defects in cause produce relative nullity? According to some authorities (the better-reasoned ones, in my judgment), absent and false cause.
The consumers will is viced by many reasons, therefore stop the "its free, because noone is physically forcing you to pay". There is moral and mental ways to force someone and they all incur in the same effects. Doesnt matter, really.
edit: this post took me 25 seconds.
"We call vices of agreements whatever injures their nature and essential characteristics..." They say its free, but everything on it injures its nature and essential characteristics, therefore making it pay to win.
want to know more? search yourself.
Found Nex/Lex did you? ^^ Those "moral and mental" ways to "force" someone to pay for a free game are for the most part found to be rather situational(in other words who can game the "legal" system the best). Moral doesn't even enter in to this discussion(as originally framed). If you are claiming mental coercion, you are going to have a seriously difficult time demonstrating(let alone documenting it). This entire angle is entirely beside the point(unless one takes the neo lib attitude that people in general have to be "protected" from themselves). At which point its a battle of ideologies, rather than facts. Once again, F2P is simply another business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.
Perhaps you should also search around (especially in this thread), where we have said many times that MANY F2P MMOs offer FLUFF items. Fluff items are not necessary to win. You won't kick more asses because your character looks cool, you are on even ground with other players.
Hell, some F2Ps now even allow players to re-sell cash shop items through in-game currency, allowing even the non-payers to gain access to some items that are technically game-breaking to some extent, are now accessible even if you don't pay. Good exemple of this is the Avatars in Dungeon Fighters which gives rather interesting bonuses to stats. Players can re-sell those avatars to other players so there's no "imbalance" issue between players (and no there is no lack of avatars, I wouldn't be lying if I said that 90% of the Player Shops on Dungeon Fighter are selling Avatar Items)
Exactly. Thats the only way I was able to purchase some of the high end player AH armor and weapons in Cabal(the prices are SERIOUSLY insane). I'd purchase blessing beads(give exp and skill point boosts and/or premium access for 1 to 30 days) from the cash shop and then sell them for the going price in the AH. Then use the proceeds to purchase armor and weapons(which drop in high level dungeons) from higher level players from the AH. Which I consider a win/win. The high level guilds farm the higher level instances, and then sell their drops on the AH for huge amounts of in game currancy, which they then use to purchase from the AH blessing beads and other such cash shop items.
I have never played a FTP game that felt worth it in the long run.
They all basically run the same way:
- Draw the gamer in by hyping up a 'new world' with cool classes and setting.
- Make the gameplay a shallow version of the traditional style mmo EQ/WoW ripoff with a ton of quest grind, or outright grind.
- Offer 'helpful' items in the cash shop like fast exp potions, mounts, death penalty removing items and even massive game destroying things like OP gear, pots, or stat increases
- Make the grind so bad at mid to end character development that the Cash shop is the only way to play without a massive handicap. At this point the player has invested a decent amount of time into the game, and isn't as likely to quit when it only seems like 'a few dollars' is all that is necessary.
- If pvp is in the game you are usually completely skrewed if you don't purchase CS items
Most FTP is just a huge scam that preys on mmo addicts. They draw you in, then bleed you for everything they can before you realize that the game is entirely designed to eventually force the user to spend in the cash shop.
I have never played a FTP game that felt worth it in the long run.
They all basically run the same way:
- Draw the gamer in by hyping up a 'new world' with cool classes and setting.
- Make the gameplay a shallow version of the traditional style mmo EQ/WoW ripoff with a ton of quest grind, or outright grind.
- Offer 'helpful' items in the cash shop like fast exp potions, mounts, death penalty removing items and even massive game destroying things like OP gear, pots, or stat increases
- Make the grind so bad at mid to end character development that the Cash shop is the only way to play without a massive handicap. At this point the player has invested a decent amount of time into the game, and isn't as likely to quit when it only seems like 'a few dollars' is all that is necessary.
- If pvp is in the game you are usually completely skrewed if you don't purchase CS items
Most FTP is just a huge scam that preys on mmo addicts. They draw you in, then bleed you for everything they can before you realize that the game is entirely designed to eventually force the user to spend in the cash shop.
This is most often how it's implemented, but it's not how is has to be. This happens because F2P puts a large amount of power in the hands of the publisher/developer as to how much of a squeeze they're going to put on their playerbase for money. Generally, they get greedy, and you end up with the above. It's possible for F2P to work, but you have to actually have ethical devs/publishers, which generally never happens.
not all of them require you to use the item mall. I've played Wonderking to level 130 so far, only thing I've bought was a couple of costumes, which give no bonuses at all.
Putting in extra time is grafting, that’s fair, whereas buying your way to the top is not fair. This is a pretty basic concept of fairness that I find it odd anyone has a problem understanding, but it is not the first time people on here have had a problem with it.
I regard pre order as a scam in itself; I never said P2P was as pure as driven snow. But compare the release of an average P2P as opposed to F2P game; F2P is the cheapo option, so you should expect generic content and low production values. There are exceptions, Allods at least looks like they have some new ideas, but I am looking at the broad picture here.
Certainly fun is the order of the day, if you are having fun in a F2P game I am happy for you. But are we talking about that or about a system designed to exploit, one which has posters on here posting ‘I was scammed’ threads? I don’t think anyone against F2P says you cannot have fun, where did any of us say that? F2P is more generic and the content is thin on the ground, but they would have to make a complete hash of a game for there to be no fun factor. The fact that my view has facets is a sign of the complexity of this issue, not weakness of logic.
As to the guy who recons we should be able to expect P2P to put clear water between themselves and F2P, I think they usually do. But there are problems with modern MMO releases that are not due to their revenue model.
The concept that F2P game players can sell on the advantages they brought to other players somehow showing there is no imbalance in F2P is a strange one. I see this as compounding the unfairness.
“Once again, F2P is simply another business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.” – I don’t, it’s up to you what you do.
Putting in extra time is grafting, that’s fair, whereas buying your way to the top is not fair. This is a pretty basic concept of fairness that I find it odd anyone has a problem understanding, but it is not the first time people on here have had a problem with it.
I regard pre order as a scam in itself; I never said P2P was as pure as driven snow. But compare the release of an average P2P as opposed to F2P game; F2P is the cheapo option, so you should expect generic content and low production values. There are exceptions, Allods at least looks like they have some new ideas, but I am looking at the broad picture here.
Certainly fun is the order of the day, if you are having fun in a F2P game I am happy for you. But are we talking about that or about a system designed to exploit, one which has posters on here posting ‘I was scammed’ threads? I don’t think anyone against F2P says you cannot have fun, where did any of us say that? F2P is more generic and the content is thin on the ground, but they would have to make a complete hash of a game for there to be no fun factor. The fact that my view has facets is a sign of the complexity of this issue, not weakness of logic.
As to the guy who recons we should be able to expect P2P to put clear water between themselves and F2P, I think they usually do. But there are problems with modern MMO releases that are not due to their revenue model.
The concept that F2P game players can sell on the advantages they brought to other players somehow showing there is no imbalance in F2P is a strange one. I see this as compounding the unfairness.
“Once again, F2P is simply another business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.” – I don’t, it’s up to you what you do.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
But I'm pretty sure I'm only missing just a few.
Entropia Universe is an excellent example of that. From what I could tell from the month or so I spent there, just about everything is for sale, if you have the credits. Hell, they even charge(credits which are real money) for repair of your gear, and ammo. It can get rather expensive fast unless one is careful. PW not so much. You technically don't need to purchase anything, if you can tolerate the grind and the down time(just like Rappelz).
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
But I'm pretty sure I'm only missing just a few.
I took a look at the Perfect World shop, I dont see anything that lets you buy higher levels. Entropia is an entirely different kind of game and buying additional content is not buying your way to the top.
I felt i was scammed playing Warhammer Online.. They promised up certain job's to be something they were not, hyped the assembly line linear bullshit world as if it was this great big battlefield, horrible CS support, updates were often screwed up or half ass, and no real worthwhile content in the last year. Oh wait we are talking about Free to Play's my bad.......
Cwutididthur?
Please half the goddamn P2P out there could be considered a "scam" as well, look at the amount of bullshit SOE, and NcSoft has pulled off in their respective histories. If you feel paying $10 for a certain item in a F2P is a scam.. go right ahead. Then a potential P2P can charge you $15 a month, to spoon feed you dog shit each update.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
But I'm pretty sure I'm only missing just a few.
I took a look at the Perfect World shop, I dont see anything that lets you buy higher levels. Entropia is an entirely different kind of game and buying additional content is not buying your way to the top.
We could argue on that though. Buying content IS the only way to get to the top after all. OR in the case of DDO, you CAN grind Favor Points, but you're in for a serious grind rivaling the bad Asian grinder. Entropia is a F2P MMORPG, real-life money just plays a much more important part of the game.
I don't get how it's deceitful. It's an alternate model that seems to work for a decent chunk of the MMO playing population. I've played a couple and never put a penny into them, so I don't feel like I've been tricked - correct me if I'm wrong?
Its deceitful becouse majority of people who go for those games think its free to play then company that make those games try with every method they have at there disposal try trick people or seduce them to buy items through item shops or other ways like spam with emails to buy there items.
When runes of magic beta came i try the game just to see what all hype was and offcorse i did not like it but when it launched they constantly spam me with emails to buy stuff had to put them on unwanted list hehe.
Many who play free to play are rather easy seduce while there first intention was play a free game, then after a while realise it cost them more then a subscribtion based game hehe.
It will btw in longrun DOWNFALL of free two play games people will more and more avoid those games and eather stop playing or choose game they know exactly what it will cost them every month.
With world crisis people can't take risk spent high ammounts of money on those games anymore they eather spent steady price of 15 euro's a month or none at all.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I see nothing wrong with a game which doesn't charge a monthly fee having an item mall which improves your game play options, powers, abilities and access to areas.
I don't get how it's deceitful. It's an alternate model that seems to work for a decent chunk of the MMO playing population. I've played a couple and never put a penny into them, so I don't feel like I've been tricked - correct me if I'm wrong?
Its deceitful becouse majority of people who go for those games think its free to play then company that make those games try with every method they have at there disposal try trick people or seduce them to buy items through item shops or other ways like spam with emails to buy there items.
When runes of magic beta came i try the game just to see what all hype was and offcorse i did not like it but when it launched they constantly spam me with emails to buy stuff had to put them on unwanted list hehe.
Many who play free to play are rather easy seduce while there first intention was play a free game, then after a while realise it cost them more then a subscribtion based game hehe.
It will btw in longrun DOWNFALL of free two play games people will more and more avoid those games and eather stop playing or choose game they know exactly what it will cost them every month.
With world crisis people can't take risk spent high ammounts of money on those games anymore they eather spent steady price of 15 euro's a month or none at all.
WRONG. Data shows that a MAJORITY of F2P players do NOT pay a dime. There is another thread with link to the cite. So if MOST players don't pay, this "seduction" is not that powerful, is it?
I don't get how it's deceitful. It's an alternate model that seems to work for a decent chunk of the MMO playing population. I've played a couple and never put a penny into them, so I don't feel like I've been tricked - correct me if I'm wrong?
Its deceitful becouse majority of people who go for those games think its free to play then company that make those games try with every method they have at there disposal try trick people or seduce them to buy items through item shops or other ways like spam with emails to buy there items.
When runes of magic beta came i try the game just to see what all hype was and offcorse i did not like it but when it launched they constantly spam me with emails to buy stuff had to put them on unwanted list hehe.
Many who play free to play are rather easy seduce while there first intention was play a free game, then after a while realise it cost them more then a subscribtion based game hehe.
It will btw in longrun DOWNFALL of free two play games people will more and more avoid those games and eather stop playing or choose game they know exactly what it will cost them every month.
With world crisis people can't take risk spent high ammounts of money on those games anymore they eather spent steady price of 15 euro's a month or none at all.
WRONG. Data shows that a MAJORITY of F2P players do NOT pay a dime. There is another thread with link to the cite. So if MOST players don't pay, this "seduction" is not that powerful, is it?
To add to nariusseldon's response, your generalizations are simply hilarious. You know what's deceitful? People looking for 'meaningful' entertainment and getting addicted to WoW because of its pavlovian techniques of "self-advancement". Call it carrot-on-a-stick seduction or whatever, but it's really THOSE people who are getting "immorally" hooked on something not even worth it in the long run.
You're all just a bunch of prejudiced wackos. Your condescending argument about people suddenly losing their free will before the might of a game company can be turned around against P2P models, and perhaps even more effectively so. Many of you literally bought into the hype of several games, from Conan to Star Trek Online, and spent hundreds of dollars in useless shit you won't ever get back and for which, up until this very day, many of you still whine your asses off in these forums ("I bought the lifetime subscription for STO and it turned out it wasn't that good! I want my money back because I'm a moron!"). In many cases, you hadn't even logged in for the first time and you had already fallen trap to all the marketing bullshit.
I don't even LIKE F2P games (at least not the ones I've tried) and here I am, defending them. You people really need to think your arguments through as much as recognizing how prejudiced you are and can be. When you articulate something worth reading as an argument against the F2P model that doesn't rely on all the ethic fallacies you keep falling in, then that's the moment when you can actually do something against it if you so like. Otherwise you'll keep merely whining as the model finds its way through your favorite games and sets an item shop for each and every one of them.
Think, and then do something useful for all of us.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
But I'm pretty sure I'm only missing just a few.
I took a look at the Perfect World shop, I dont see anything that lets you buy higher levels. Entropia is an entirely different kind of game and buying additional content is not buying your way to the top.
We could argue on that though. Buying content IS the only way to get to the top after all. OR in the case of DDO, you CAN grind Favor Points, but you're in for a serious grind rivaling the bad Asian grinder. Entropia is a F2P MMORPG, real-life money just plays a much more important part of the game.
Buying your way to the top means buying character advancement, which the example you mentioned just isn't.
Comments
Its obvious you have no idea what a scam really is. You know exactly what you're getting and how much it costs. What part of that is a scam?
Your view of Free to play MMORPGS is for the most part completely off. The vast majority of those games offer access to all gameplay content free of charge.
F2P is a buisness model that is no more scam than P2P. In fact P2P is MORE of a scam since the last few years have been littered with titels that ppl are duped into pre-order based on hypes - then to realise the game is not even half finised. And ... you will have to pay sub for months and months before things are actually fixed. Even years like in WAR and AOC.
The point is to have fun. It is actually quite simple, as demonstrated by MILLIONS of players. All games end. A free game last for a while is better than no game at all.
Have you ever played a SP game? What is the point of playing HALO when it is going to end? What is the point of playing Halo 2 if I don't play Halo 3? Who cares about a "glass ceiling"? You play the free content and move on to another game after all the free content is gone. THAT is the point.
And you ADMIT that "Clearly if you just play for free you are not getting scammed" .. then how could it be a scam if you already have a CHOICE of not to pay? You logic fails.
i agree but i am beginning to expect more from the pay per month games they really need to but out more effort.
Vices of Consent.
Understand why Free is not Free.
For lack of or for defects in which essential elements of contractual formation will a contract be deemed relatively null? Capacity, consent, and cause.
What kinds of defects in capacity produce relative nullity? All of the incapacities of exercise, i.e., minority (unemancipated), interdiction, and deprivation of reason, produce relative nullities. The same is true of those unusual incapacities of enjoyment that don't violate rules of public order (if there are any).
What kinds of defects in consent produce relative nullity? All of the vices of consent, i.e., error, fraud, duress, and lesion.
What kinds of defects in cause produce relative nullity? According to some authorities (the better-reasoned ones, in my judgment), absent and false cause.
The consumers will is viced by many reasons, therefore stop the "its free, because noone is physically forcing you to pay". There is moral and mental ways to force someone and they all incur in the same effects. Doesnt matter, really.
edit: this post took me 25 seconds.
"We call vices of agreements whatever injures their nature and essential characteristics..." They say its free, but everything on it injures its nature and essential characteristics, therefore making it pay to win.
want to know more? search yourself.
Perhaps you should also search around (especially in this thread), where we have said many times that MANY F2P MMOs offer FLUFF items. Fluff items are not necessary to win. You won't kick more asses because your character looks cool, you are on even ground with other players.
Hell, some F2Ps now even allow players to re-sell cash shop items through in-game currency, allowing even the non-payers to gain access to some items that are technically game-breaking to some extent, are now accessible even if you don't pay. Good exemple of this is the Avatars in Dungeon Fighters which gives rather interesting bonuses to stats. Players can re-sell those avatars to other players so there's no "imbalance" issue between players (and no there is no lack of avatars, I wouldn't be lying if I said that 90% of the Player Shops on Dungeon Fighter are selling Avatar Items)
I own this thread.
Been reading and posting on it since the beggining.
If you dont realized by now, then you will never know.
Found Nex/Lex did you? ^^ Those "moral and mental" ways to "force" someone to pay for a free game are for the most part found to be rather situational(in other words who can game the "legal" system the best). Moral doesn't even enter in to this discussion(as originally framed). If you are claiming mental coercion, you are going to have a seriously difficult time demonstrating(let alone documenting it). This entire angle is entirely beside the point(unless one takes the neo lib attitude that people in general have to be "protected" from themselves). At which point its a battle of ideologies, rather than facts. Once again, F2P is simply another business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.
Exactly. Thats the only way I was able to purchase some of the high end player AH armor and weapons in Cabal(the prices are SERIOUSLY insane). I'd purchase blessing beads(give exp and skill point boosts and/or premium access for 1 to 30 days) from the cash shop and then sell them for the going price in the AH. Then use the proceeds to purchase armor and weapons(which drop in high level dungeons) from higher level players from the AH. Which I consider a win/win. The high level guilds farm the higher level instances, and then sell their drops on the AH for huge amounts of in game currancy, which they then use to purchase from the AH blessing beads and other such cash shop items.
I have to agree with the OP.
I have never played a FTP game that felt worth it in the long run.
They all basically run the same way:
- Draw the gamer in by hyping up a 'new world' with cool classes and setting.
- Make the gameplay a shallow version of the traditional style mmo EQ/WoW ripoff with a ton of quest grind, or outright grind.
- Offer 'helpful' items in the cash shop like fast exp potions, mounts, death penalty removing items and even massive game destroying things like OP gear, pots, or stat increases
- Make the grind so bad at mid to end character development that the Cash shop is the only way to play without a massive handicap. At this point the player has invested a decent amount of time into the game, and isn't as likely to quit when it only seems like 'a few dollars' is all that is necessary.
- If pvp is in the game you are usually completely skrewed if you don't purchase CS items
Most FTP is just a huge scam that preys on mmo addicts. They draw you in, then bleed you for everything they can before you realize that the game is entirely designed to eventually force the user to spend in the cash shop.
This is most often how it's implemented, but it's not how is has to be. This happens because F2P puts a large amount of power in the hands of the publisher/developer as to how much of a squeeze they're going to put on their playerbase for money. Generally, they get greedy, and you end up with the above. It's possible for F2P to work, but you have to actually have ethical devs/publishers, which generally never happens.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
not all of them require you to use the item mall. I've played Wonderking to level 130 so far, only thing I've bought was a couple of costumes, which give no bonuses at all.
Putting in extra time is grafting, that’s fair, whereas buying your way to the top is not fair. This is a pretty basic concept of fairness that I find it odd anyone has a problem understanding, but it is not the first time people on here have had a problem with it.
I regard pre order as a scam in itself; I never said P2P was as pure as driven snow. But compare the release of an average P2P as opposed to F2P game; F2P is the cheapo option, so you should expect generic content and low production values. There are exceptions, Allods at least looks like they have some new ideas, but I am looking at the broad picture here.
Certainly fun is the order of the day, if you are having fun in a F2P game I am happy for you. But are we talking about that or about a system designed to exploit, one which has posters on here posting ‘I was scammed’ threads? I don’t think anyone against F2P says you cannot have fun, where did any of us say that? F2P is more generic and the content is thin on the ground, but they would have to make a complete hash of a game for there to be no fun factor. The fact that my view has facets is a sign of the complexity of this issue, not weakness of logic.
As to the guy who recons we should be able to expect P2P to put clear water between themselves and F2P, I think they usually do. But there are problems with modern MMO releases that are not due to their revenue model.
The concept that F2P game players can sell on the advantages they brought to other players somehow showing there is no imbalance in F2P is a strange one. I see this as compounding the unfairness.
“Once again, F2P is simply another business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.” – I don’t, it’s up to you what you do.
Please mention some MMORPGS which let you buy your way to the top.
Its funny how you still can't explain how free to play is a scam, the only argument you have is that other people claim they have been scammed. I have been on this forum for quite some time and I don't remember a post about people saying they got scammed.
Allods, Perfect World International, Planet Calypso (Entropia Universe), to some extent DDO (You have to buy additional content), Wizard101 (Same as DDO) I know there's more but none that comes to my mind at the moment.
But I'm pretty sure I'm only missing just a few.
Entropia Universe is an excellent example of that. From what I could tell from the month or so I spent there, just about everything is for sale, if you have the credits. Hell, they even charge(credits which are real money) for repair of your gear, and ammo. It can get rather expensive fast unless one is careful. PW not so much. You technically don't need to purchase anything, if you can tolerate the grind and the down time(just like Rappelz).
I took a look at the Perfect World shop, I dont see anything that lets you buy higher levels. Entropia is an entirely different kind of game and buying additional content is not buying your way to the top.
I felt i was scammed playing Warhammer Online.. They promised up certain job's to be something they were not, hyped the assembly line linear bullshit world as if it was this great big battlefield, horrible CS support, updates were often screwed up or half ass, and no real worthwhile content in the last year. Oh wait we are talking about Free to Play's my bad.......
Cwutididthur?
Please half the goddamn P2P out there could be considered a "scam" as well, look at the amount of bullshit SOE, and NcSoft has pulled off in their respective histories. If you feel paying $10 for a certain item in a F2P is a scam.. go right ahead. Then a potential P2P can charge you $15 a month, to spoon feed you dog shit each update.
We could argue on that though. Buying content IS the only way to get to the top after all. OR in the case of DDO, you CAN grind Favor Points, but you're in for a serious grind rivaling the bad Asian grinder. Entropia is a F2P MMORPG, real-life money just plays a much more important part of the game.
Its deceitful becouse majority of people who go for those games think its free to play then company that make those games try with every method they have at there disposal try trick people or seduce them to buy items through item shops or other ways like spam with emails to buy there items.
When runes of magic beta came i try the game just to see what all hype was and offcorse i did not like it but when it launched they constantly spam me with emails to buy stuff had to put them on unwanted list hehe.
Many who play free to play are rather easy seduce while there first intention was play a free game, then after a while realise it cost them more then a subscribtion based game hehe.
It will btw in longrun DOWNFALL of free two play games people will more and more avoid those games and eather stop playing or choose game they know exactly what it will cost them every month.
With world crisis people can't take risk spent high ammounts of money on those games anymore they eather spent steady price of 15 euro's a month or none at all.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I see nothing wrong with a game which doesn't charge a monthly fee having an item mall which improves your game play options, powers, abilities and access to areas.
WRONG. Data shows that a MAJORITY of F2P players do NOT pay a dime. There is another thread with link to the cite. So if MOST players don't pay, this "seduction" is not that powerful, is it?
To add to nariusseldon's response, your generalizations are simply hilarious. You know what's deceitful? People looking for 'meaningful' entertainment and getting addicted to WoW because of its pavlovian techniques of "self-advancement". Call it carrot-on-a-stick seduction or whatever, but it's really THOSE people who are getting "immorally" hooked on something not even worth it in the long run.
You're all just a bunch of prejudiced wackos. Your condescending argument about people suddenly losing their free will before the might of a game company can be turned around against P2P models, and perhaps even more effectively so. Many of you literally bought into the hype of several games, from Conan to Star Trek Online, and spent hundreds of dollars in useless shit you won't ever get back and for which, up until this very day, many of you still whine your asses off in these forums ("I bought the lifetime subscription for STO and it turned out it wasn't that good! I want my money back because I'm a moron!"). In many cases, you hadn't even logged in for the first time and you had already fallen trap to all the marketing bullshit.
I don't even LIKE F2P games (at least not the ones I've tried) and here I am, defending them. You people really need to think your arguments through as much as recognizing how prejudiced you are and can be. When you articulate something worth reading as an argument against the F2P model that doesn't rely on all the ethic fallacies you keep falling in, then that's the moment when you can actually do something against it if you so like. Otherwise you'll keep merely whining as the model finds its way through your favorite games and sets an item shop for each and every one of them.
Think, and then do something useful for all of us.
Buying your way to the top means buying character advancement, which the example you mentioned just isn't.
Entropia is the exception, not the rule.
Go check Atantica Online.
9.99 USD for a chance to receieve an item LOL