Starvault CEO: If you don't support MO, it could be the end sandbox MMOs; Does not like trolls on mm

synn

Originally posted by Larhten

Originally posted by synn


asking players to support a game that isn't ready for launch is absurd. if they want support from gamers then small things should have been added before launch like; tutorial for new gamers, a map and/or compass etc... the lack of these things doesn't make a game "hardcore" rather then less likely to attract new gamers. After all its the minor things that can make the difference between longevity and failure.
AV needs to step up to the plate and get their act together. gamers don't expect perfection right out the gate but SV needs to realize that with all the bad publicity they have gotten lately that they will need to prove to a big majority of the public that spending more then what an average MMO costs is well worth it. I personally participated in OB and thought the game had potential once all the latency issues are fixed. I probably won't even bother buying the game until i know for sure that i'll get my monies worth.
 
p.s. any idiot that feels a failure on SV part to release a sandbox MMO will spell doom for future games is just silly. Some company will get ballsy and try to make a sandbox game but unlike MO they will have something decent, playable, and not give lame excuses as to why players should support them.

  Game doesnt really NEED an ingame map and compass.....it is NOT hard to navigate

www.mmocrunch.com/2010/03/16/lost-in-mortal-online/

 

read that and tell me its not hard to navigate. there are millions of MMO gamers nowadays and because one person might  have an easy time navigating it doesn't hold true for the rest of the public. Thats the kind of stuff SV should keep in mind. as i said before its the little things that can make a difference. Over time if players continued to play then yeah navigating does get easier but the goal of any MMO should be to capture and hold a players attention from the start. Not risk the chance someone wonders from the city gets lost for an hour or more then just quits out of fustration.

 

 

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


Umm... care to expand on what I am "not right" about?

 

Not sure. If he's talking about the unfounded statements about the unreal engine, you aren't the source for either of those quotes.  Someone else is responsible for the first and another one for the second

jaxsundane

Originally posted by IAmMMO


Is that SV guy deluded? If Mortal Online is the only MMO that is going save the sandbox MMO genre, then Sandbox MMO's are as good as done already, lots of players who don't like MO after trying it know what the dev team is trying to do and their execution of it is very poor.
It's a good thing SV and its MMO is far from the saviour of sandbox MMO's. Aventerine is not out of the race yet, it will be very foolish for SV to consider Aventurine out of the race without even know what big shake up the huge Darkfall 2010 project will bring to the game. There more players now playing DF than SV will have at launch, I'm willing to bet on it!
AV already have an advantage having an engine they built from the ground up for MMO's that handles large number of players in a real time battles better than the unreal engine MO is using, since AV built their own engine they don't have to relying on a very detached group who you licensed the engine from to fix things to do with the engine that lacking already for use as a tool to build a MMO.

 

This post makes it kind of obvious that you must play DF and why you take offense to SV making statements the way they did about being the last leg for sandbox gaming, but I do agree with you one hundred percent it is arrogant if nothing else for him to act as if there are no other games on the market that cater to the same crowd that MO does and while I don't play DF nor do I intend to the idea I'm getting is that MO a few weeks before launch is in much worse shape that DF was in that same time before launch (not by much though).

Most of the comments I have read negative towards MO and Sv has been about the game being highly unplayable and absolutely no communication from SV when asking for a refund.  Honestly if SV can make this one comment and make sure all these potential customers can read it what's so hard about responding to the people asking for a refund?

How many people on here have ever been owed money by someone and all of a sudden they stop calling you and when you call them there is no answer ever?  Well SV this is what you did to alot of prospective customers and now you want us to feel as if we owe the "sandbox" industry something?  What happened to you owing your community an explanation of why the game was in such sad shape with launch looming so close?

They need to look in the mirror and recognize if MO fails it is noones fault but their own.

Hrothmund

Originally posted by Xerith


He should probably get a grasp on speaking professionally and not like a kid who just rolled out of bed if he wants anyone to actually take this operation seriously and not make it seem like a bunch of inexperienced friends who got together to make a game.

 

I disagree here. I hate today's politically correct PR bullshit that most company reps spew out with pretentious vigor. It makes me sick. It seems these days that that what you say isn't the most important part of the message, but how you say it. Fuck that.

 

I love the few colorful characters we have left in the gaming world, even if they are deluded egoists like Henrik. I even like freaking Steve Ballmer.

 

I guess one reason for all this is that I am a consultant, and public speaking is a big part of my job. No I don't talk about shit service providers and care-bear software vendors, but I don't bring out a dictionary and start throwing in fourteen letter words to ease around a sensitive subject.

 

Props to Henrik for speaking his mind, too bad his product doesn't have the brass to back that talk up.

osmunda

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Xerith


He should probably get a grasp on speaking professionally and not like a kid who just rolled out of bed if he wants anyone to actually take this operation seriously and not make it seem like a bunch of inexperienced friends who got together to make a game.

 I disagree here. I hate today's politically correct PR bullshit that most company reps spew out with pretentious vigor. It makes me sick. It seems these days that that what you say isn't the most important part of the message, but how you say it. Fuck that.

 I love the few colorful characters we have left in the gaming world, even if they are deluded egoists like Henrik. I even like freaking Steve Ballmer.

 

They have specifically said that anything said in IRC is not official.  This is so they can maintain a more relaxed, conversational tone.  Unfortunately, some people respond to this by recording the entire IRC session and looking for things that may sound bad. (especially when they editorialize and put words in his mouth like "troll" and "carebear")

Fuggo

Originally posted by Larhten

Originally posted by synn


asking players to support a game that isn't ready for launch is absurd. if they want support from gamers then small things should have been added before launch like; tutorial for new gamers, a map and/or compass etc... the lack of these things doesn't make a game "hardcore" rather then less likely to attract new gamers. After all its the minor things that can make the difference between longevity and failure.
AV needs to step up to the plate and get their act together. gamers don't expect perfection right out the gate but SV needs to realize that with all the bad publicity they have gotten lately that they will need to prove to a big majority of the public that spending more then what an average MMO costs is well worth it. I personally participated in OB and thought the game had potential once all the latency issues are fixed. I probably won't even bother buying the game until i know for sure that i'll get my monies worth.
 
p.s. any idiot that feels a failure on SV part to release a sandbox MMO will spell doom for future games is just silly. Some company will get ballsy and try to make a sandbox game but unlike MO they will have something decent, playable, and not give lame excuses as to why players should support them.

  Game doesnt really NEED an ingame map and compass.....it is NOT hard to navigate

 

Player Y: Oi! X come to me!

Player X: Where are you?

Player Y: I'm in a forest.

Player X: What type?

Player Y: I dunno... a forest! Green! I can see the sea from here!

Player X: Ehh ok... I can also see the sea from here and I'm also in a forest but I can't see anyone around me. Not even a rabbit!

Player Y: WTF! Go north or something....! No wait! I come over to you! Where are you?

Player X: .....I'm lost in a forest....!

Player Y: Tomorrow then...

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda


They have specifically said that anything said in IRC is not official.  This is so they can maintain a more relaxed, conversational tone.  Unfortunately, some people respond to this by recording the entire IRC session and looking for things that may sound bad. (especially when they editorialize and put words in his mouth like "troll" and "carebear")

 

In general I would tend to agree... BUT the company has done a horrendous job of communicating via the official forums and most people that ask for info are directed to IRC.  As a matter of fact just about every complaint about the lack of communication is countered by someone saying that IRC is the main form of communication.   If they would actually have their Community manager funnel information through the forums on a regular basis I think 90% of folks would prefer not to even log into IRC. 

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


In general I would tend to agree... BUT the company has done a horrendous job of communicating via the official forums and most people that ask for info are directed to IRC.  As a matter of fact just about every complaint about the lack of communication is countered by someone saying that IRC is the main form of communication.   If they would actually have their Community manager funnel information through the forums on a regular basis I think 90% of folks would prefer not to even log into IRC. 

 

Not sure I'd call it poor communication but here are the links for people to judge on their own,,,

Maerlyn-- community manager

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1037969

Mats Persson--  creative director http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1037976

RSS feed dev tracker--- http://www.mortalarena.com/devtracker.php  

Would be nice if they had an onsite dev tracker since the unofficial one is hopelessly outdated-- http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/2135-unofficial-dev-tracker.html

osmunda

Hrm...

Putting a dev tracker in front of inferno/rlmccoy was probably just asking for trouble.....

Slapshot1188

OK.. for instance, here is the FORUM AND DEVELOPER ANNOUNCEMENTS section http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/forum-developer-announcements/

 

See how empty it is?    See how it doesn't even contain an announcement that the game is releasing in 2 weeks?

 

Here is another example.. this is the Dev Tracker:

http://www.mortalarena.com/devtracker.php?dev=10292

 

I select the Community Manager and find that he has a total of 6 posts in 11 days.  Of those 6, fully half (3) are in a thread called "Photoshop Contest of Picture of Maerlyn".

 

I hardly think that 3 legit posts by a community manager in 11 days.. counts as good communication.  Particularly when within those 11 days they announced the official release of the game (never mentioned by the CM) and are now 2 weeks from release.

 

THAT'S why people are forced to goto IRC.  Do you want me to go link repeated threads where people beg for more info on the forums because they hate having to idle in IRC all day waiting for some blurb?

 

Hrothmund

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


In general I would tend to agree... BUT the company has done a horrendous job of communicating via the official forums and most people that ask for info are directed to IRC.  As a matter of fact just about every complaint about the lack of communication is countered by someone saying that IRC is the main form of communication.   If they would actually have their Community manager funnel information through the forums on a regular basis I think 90% of folks would prefer not to even log into IRC. 

 

Not sure I'd call it poor communication but here are the links for people to judge on their own,,,

Maerlyn-- community manager

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1037969

Mats Persson--  creative director http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1037976

RSS feed dev tracker--- http://www.mortalarena.com/devtracker.php  

Would be nice if they had an onsite dev tracker since the unofficial one is hopelessly outdated-- http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/2135-unofficial-dev-tracker.html

 

Thanks for the links. It's actually quite entertaining, because you have multiple examples of Mats arguing with forum members and basically trying to berate them. You have the same type of behavior by Sebastian in IRC on a regular basis, and StJudas basically everywhere he was.

 

On top of all that, you have a CEO who acts like a 12 year old and is now telling people that if they aren't guilted into buying MO, there won't ever be another game like it -- when there are games in development right behind it offering similar type of game styles.

 

StarVault is pathetic, their management is childish and amateur, and I've never seen a more unprofessional company since... well since Dark and Light, or Mourning.

I don't think what is really at stake here is StarVault's communication. If their game was kick-ass, polished and in general had that 'wow-factor' (not WoW factor!) people would praising how great it is to see company reps and developers speaking their mind.

 

The game being what it is, people brand anything StarVault does as a failure. In some ways this is understandable, people do not like losers in general.

Personally, I like their personal and passionate way of communicating and would like to see more of that from other companies.

therain93

So, it seems like someone has an overly-inflated sense of self-importance.  It's also why companies need marketing departments and talking points because letting anyone shoot from the hip is going to blow up.

I've had zero interest in MO up to this point and will continue to do so.  If SV's agenda was to get publicity, well, they got one more set of eyeballs, briefly, but at the expense of never bothering to look in their direction again.  There is such a thing as bad publicity.

Toquio3

What I find most pathetic about the CEO, is that he goes on about how carebears and noobs are the scum of the earth, but then QQs all over IRC about how he could never catch up to the older EVE players (which is not true). So he sucks at EVE, and decided to make his own game where he will be god (and I certainly think the devs will play MO, and I cant wait to see what happens with that).

I wonder how many people will call out "hypocrite" when a new player fresh off the train cannot compete with a year old player character because of game currency / skills / whatever. I wonder if his little 12 year old mind will remember what he said about EVE.

HerculesSAS

Originally posted by Toquio3


What I find most pathetic about the CEO, is that he goes on about how carebears and noobs are the scum of the earth, but then QQs all over IRC about how he could never catch up to the older EVE players (which is not true). So he sucks at EVE, and decided to make his own game where he will be god (and I certainly think the devs will play MO, and I cant wait to see what happens with that).
I wonder how many people will call out "hypocrite" when a new player fresh off the train cannot compete with a year old player character because of game currency / skills / whatever. I wonder if his little 12 year old mind will remember what he said about EVE.

 

It's been said before, but this is basically a case of a gamer that thought he could a game.

 

It doesn't work, unless that gamer is also an experienced developer and project manager. In Henrik's case, he's an experienced poker site spammer, and got his dad's money so he didn't have to compete in EVE and could be 'god' in his own game that he made.

 

Too bad he is now finding out that it takes more than money to build a game, it actually takes talent and experience -- neither of which he, or the team has.

BizkitNL

If that really is their CEO, I'lle light a candle for them. Just another "I hate WoW and anyone that plays it" brat.

I can laugh about it, though. I've played MO. Hah. What a joke.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by BizkitNL


If that really is their CEO, I'lle light a candle for them. Just another "I hate WoW and anyone that plays it" brat.
I can laugh about it, though. I've played MO. Hah. What a joke.

 

Yes, it is their CEO.  From the dev blogs:

www.mortalonline.com/blog/patch-night

Annwyn

Originally posted by Toquio3


What I find most pathetic about the CEO, is that he goes on about how carebears and noobs are the scum of the earth, but then QQs all over IRC about how he could never catch up to the older EVE players (which is not true). So he sucks at EVE, and decided to make his own game where he will be god (and I certainly think the devs will play MO, and I cant wait to see what happens with that).
I wonder how many people will call out "hypocrite" when a new player fresh off the train cannot compete with a year old player character because of game currency / skills / whatever. I wonder if his little 12 year old mind will remember what he said about EVE.

 

I fear we will see some similar issues that have been seen in A Tale In The Desert. As in GMs favoring their friends, etc. The dev/gms behind ATITD are about just as immature and unprofesionnal as Henrick.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Toquio3


What I find most pathetic about the CEO, is that he goes on about how carebears and noobs are the scum of the earth, but then QQs all over IRC about how he could never catch up to the older EVE players (which is not true). So he sucks at EVE, and decided to make his own game where he will be god (and I certainly think the devs will play MO, and I cant wait to see what happens with that).
I wonder how many people will call out "hypocrite" when a new player fresh off the train cannot compete with a year old player character because of game currency / skills / whatever. I wonder if his little 12 year old mind will remember what he said about EVE.

 

I fear we will see some similar issues that have been seen in A Tale In The Desert. As in GMs favoring their friends, etc. The dev/gms behind ATITD are about just as immature and unprofesionnal as Henrick.

 

Never heard of that game, all these companies are asking for volunteer community support will get people like that.

HanoverZ

Originally posted by chesiremorph


This game does not just lack polish.
 
This game is totaly unfinished!
 
We have 2 choices
1. Support the development of Mortal Online for the next 4 years by paying them to continue to develop what they have created. Their ideas are great, and innovative. It's almost halfway done acording to the development timeline stated by their CEO.
 
2. Avoid this game at all costs!! they are asking us to pay for their development. Right now MO is not worth playing at all. Yes, it will be someday, but for the next few years it will be garbage. This turd will not be fully polished for a Looooong time. 
 
The CEO is creating hype, and circleing the wagons at the same time. The game WILL gather enough followers to continue development, but it will be a painfully slow and nauseating development that will cost them money.
 
I gave MO a shot. They need to look at what happened to Vanguard. The game has to be at least 90% complete prior to release.

 

That pretty much sums it up.  MO would have been in much shape PR wise if they'd offered refunds for the pre-orders.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by HanoverZ

Originally posted by chesiremorph


This game does not just lack polish.
 
This game is totaly unfinished!
 
We have 2 choices
1. Support the development of Mortal Online for the next 4 years by paying them to continue to develop what they have created. Their ideas are great, and innovative. It's almost halfway done acording to the development timeline stated by their CEO.
 
2. Avoid this game at all costs!! they are asking us to pay for their development. Right now MO is not worth playing at all. Yes, it will be someday, but for the next few years it will be garbage. This turd will not be fully polished for a Looooong time. 
 
The CEO is creating hype, and circleing the wagons at the same time. The game WILL gather enough followers to continue development, but it will be a painfully slow and nauseating development that will cost them money.
 
I gave MO a shot. They need to look at what happened to Vanguard. The game has to be at least 90% complete prior to release.

 

That pretty much sums it up.  MO would have been in much shape PR wise if they'd offered refunds for the pre-orders.

 

They have already spent the preorder money, they can't refund what they do not have.  Thats why they are releasing in 2 weeks because they need more money to develop.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by HanoverZ


 
That pretty much sums it up.  MO would have been in much shape PR wise if they'd offered refunds for the pre-orders.

 

Totally and 100% agree... at least after the various delays they should have done so.  It's when you take someone's money.. miss your dates (repeatedly).. ignore their contact requests and so on that you get into trouble.  90% of the folks who got refunds probably wouldn't have pushed if they had simply not been ignored...

 

PoopyStuff

You people trashing him have no idea what your talking about

 

did you even read what he said?

 

"could mean the end"

 

it's his opinion.

 

learn to accept it.

 

He might be onto something, the amount of new sandbox mmo's has been going down for a long time.

its all about the themepark model.

I take my hats off to him for sticking to his guns, and trying to make a niche game.

 

DracheSC

[Mod Edit]

Anybody ever heard of Darkfall? It's a total sandbox, and guess what? It's pretty darned good, too. Kicks the crap out of MO.

HerculesSAS

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by HanoverZ


 
That pretty much sums it up.  MO would have been in much shape PR wise if they'd offered refunds for the pre-orders.

 

Totally and 100% agree... at least after the various delays they should have done so.  It's when you take someone's money.. miss your dates (repeatedly).. ignore their contact requests and so on that you get into trouble.  90% of the folks who got refunds probably wouldn't have pushed if they had simply not been ignored...

 

 

I'm one of them. I wouldn't have stuck around this long if they gave me a refund eons ago because I'd have no dog in this fight.

 

But if they wanted to hold my cash, I am happy to oblige their curiosity.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by PoopyStuff


 
I take my hats off to him for sticking to his guns, and trying to make a niche game.
 

 

But the game is going to be launched prematurely full of bugs, lag and no content.  He is talking big, but he delivers small.