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Starvault CEO: If you don't support MO, it could be the end sandbox MMOs; Does not like trolls on mm

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  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407

    Please stay on topic.

  • HanoverZHanoverZ Member Posts: 1,239

    Hot topic!!!  Over 4000 views in day.

    I win!!! LOL@U

  • darkangel99darkangel99 Member Posts: 23

    well i tried to actually see how this game is, downloaded the open beta, spent quite a while last night and today patching it up, go to play and get nowgame.exe error as i start up the game.  now this could be a problem with some of my settings but my comp plays every game out right now without a problem, im not gonn amess with my settings or try to get this game to run correctly.

     

    so to starvault, before you call out people on anything make sure your game runs for people to try.  i am now done with this game probably forever, i tried to give it a shot, but i wont now.

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188


    OK.. for instance, here is the FORUM AND DEVELOPER ANNOUNCEMENTS section http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/forum-developer-announcements/
     See how empty it is?    See how it doesn't even contain an announcement that the game is releasing in 2 weeks?



     

    Well if you insist on starting from the forums...here's how you find the announcement:

    1) scroll down to the bottom of the page.          

    2)click on "Mortal online" at the bottom right.  This will take you to  http://www.mortalonline.com/age_verification?destination=node%2F92    This is the same place that you end up if you type www.mortalonline.com into the address bar of your browser or if you click on the first link of a google search for "mortal online"  http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_en&q=mortal+online&aq=f&aqi=n1g10&aql=&oq=

    3) click on "latest news". This brings you to http://www.mortalonline.com/news

    4) click on "March - 13-03-10" This brings you to http://www.mortalonline.com/news/march-13-03-10 which opens with  "Release

    We are very happy to announce that Mortal Online will launch in March 2010. As most of you know, we implemented the features planned for release and even managed to get in a few more that were initially planned for post-release. We are currently focussing solely on bugfixing and polish."

    But I guess people with access to the forums would never think to look there

     

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188


    Here is another example.. this is the Dev Tracker:
    http://www.mortalarena.com/devtracker.php?dev=10292
    I select the Community Manager and find that he has a total of 6 posts in 11 days.  Of those 6, fully half (3) are in a thread called "Photoshop Contest of Picture of Maerlyn".
    I hardly think that 3 legit posts by a community manager in 11 days.. counts as good communication.  Particularly when within those 11 days they announced the official release of the game (never mentioned by the CM) and are now 2 weeks from release.
    THAT'S why people are forced to goto IRC.  Do you want me to go link repeated threads where people beg for more info on the forums because they hate having to idle in IRC all day waiting for some blurb?

    He may be a little busy setting up the community management team http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/36001-mortal-online-volunteer-mod-op.html#post751428   25th February 2010, 12:49  Moderator Recruitment



    The moderator team would like to invite applications for forum moderators/IRC ops from the Mortal Online community.

    Applicants must:

    •Be over 18 years of age

    •Be a community member of good standing for over 2 months

    •Agree to the Moderator Customer Charter; and

    •Will be asked to agree to the Moderator Code of Conduct

    Forum moderator/op (Lictor) is a voluntary position.

    To apply, please send a PM to Maerlyn or Teiwaz including:

    •Your name

    •Your age

    •Your guild affiliation

    •Your timezone, and

    •A brief description of why you want to be a moderator/op and any relevant experience

    Although applications will not be acknowledged unless we would like further information, all applications will be reviewed and considered. We do keep a list of suitable candidates and may contact you well after your application has been submitted if a position becomes available.

    But just for comparisons sake:  Maerlyn   16 posts in March  ;  Fallen earth  Tiggs      community director    21 posts in march;        EVE CCP Wrangler   Senior Community Manager   2 posts in March      CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager  15 posts in March ;     Xsyon   Virtus title?   about 120   Xsyon title?  about 40 ;   Darkfall  well I dont have an accoount there so...

    It seems the only real standout is Xsyon, but they have yet to show that there is a game behind the website (planed release in 30 days)



    We are currently actively looking for people that are active during noon/afternoon GMT+1

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by HerculesSAS

    Originally posted by qazqaz123

    Originally posted by HerculesSAS 
    Thanks for the links. It's actually quite entertaining, because you have multiple examples of Mats arguing with forum members and basically trying to berate them. You have the same type of behavior by Sebastian in IRC on a regular basis, and StJudas basically everywhere he was.
    On top of all that, you have a CEO who acts like a 12 year old and is now telling people that if they aren't guilted into buying MO, there won't ever be another game like it -- when there are games in development right behind it offering similar type of game styles.
    StarVault is pathetic, their management is childish and amateur, and I've never seen a more unprofessional company since... well since Dark and Light, or Mourning.

     The purpose of the OP was to illustrate how the CEO is using scare tactics and trying to "guilt" people into buying MO and supporting basically what is a complete failure of a game.

     Can't say I'd agree with that characterization, but he does overstate the importance of Mortal in the potential for sandbox games in the near future.

    Many pointed out early on that the CEO has tried this track before, and the sheer unprofessionalism that exuded from him and the dev team has been a constant thing.

     Of course, osmunda tried to prove us all wrong by linking us to stuff that SHOWS THEM ACTING UNPROFESSIONALLY. My point was simply that, that SV and its CEO are unprofessional, and incidentally, that happens to still be on the topic of this thread.

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's a derailment of the thread -- if anything, what you are saying is derailing the thread. And it's no wonder your posts got deleted. Don't worry -- I've had my fair share deleted as well, and the only thing I can say about that is that at least it's even handed.

    SHOWS THEM ACTING UNPROFESSIONALLY---- examples?? 

     

    Unfortunately, Starvault and its employees make convenient punching bags for these debates because the forum rules / protections do not apply to them.  rlmccoy can put words into their mouths (he still hasn't shown where Henrick called anyone a "carebear" or "troll")  and others can attack them in ways that would be considered ad hominem attacks/ trolling  if they were forum members.

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722
    Originally posted by osmunda




     
    Unfortunately, Starvault and its employees make convenient punching bags for these debates because the forum rules / protections do not apply to them.  rlmccoy can put words into their mouths (he still hasn't shown where Henrick called anyone a "carebear" or "troll")  and others can attack them in ways that would be considered ad hominem attacks/ trolling  if they were forum members.

     

     

    Read the OP and the logs I posted.

    image
  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

    Originally posted by osmunda


    Unfortunately, Starvault and its employees make convenient punching bags for these debates because the forum rules / protections do not apply to them.  rlmccoy can put words into their mouths (he still hasn't shown where Henrick called anyone a "carebear" or "troll")  and others can attack them in ways that would be considered ad hominem attacks/ trolling  if they were forum members.

     Read the OP and the logs I posted.



     

    Um, ok you added (or I missed in the first place) "sad to see MMORPG.COM not doing much against it, looks bad for them as well spec when they troll their main site with shit".  But your titile says he doesn't like trolls, not he doesn't like trolling.  Semantics, I know. But he is criticizing the behavior, not the people.

    That and the title to the thread used to be longer and have "carebear" attached to more of your excerpts.

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by Garvon3


     I see similar things happening with when Darkfall launched. Here's the big differences though.
     When Darkfall launched, there was a pre set group of people who HATED Darkfall, the vaportrolls. No one really knows why. They thought the game was fake for so many years, came up with the most INSANE conspiracy theories, and when the game was proved to be coming out, they went nuts and went on a campaign to ultimately ruin the game. So much misinformation was tossed around that many darkfall players just stopped coming to these particular forums. It wasn't ALL vapor trolls, some people just didn't like the game, but thus is life. 
    With Darkfall there was no real reason for the hatred, as the game was fairly stable and launched with most of its promised features intact and functioning.
     Mortal Online attracts large amount of hatred due to the unprofessionalism of the dev team, selling beta access for 70 bucks a pop, up to about 8 delays so far I think, and how almost NOTHING in the game works. 
    That is why people trash Mortal Online. It's not even close to how Darkfall was in alpha, or most other games. 
    And no, I'm not saying that cause I got killed, or got lost. I love the MO ideas, I LOVE not having a map, I wanted this game to succeed, but they simply didn't have enough money, or competent coders. 
    Shame. 
    So the big difference, most things that were said about Darkfall at launch were wrong, most things said about MO at launch are true. 



     

    So all the people who disliked Darkfall were insane conspiracy theorists with no real reason for the hatred since the game was fairly stable and Aventurine was the picture of professionalism?  Meanwhile all the criticism of Mortal is due to unprofessionalism, delays, and almost NOTHING in the game works?

    Not sure how to respond in a way that won't get deleted for highjacking the thread so I'll stay ultra-short. Keen and Graev's darkfall news http://www.keenandgraev.com/?cat=169

    The forum around the time of launch http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/454/page/151

    My apology to the trolls, from an ex-fanboy: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/225459

      

    I'll not get into the (un)professionalism of Starvault since neither of us is going to convince the other.  There is one TOTALLY objective criteria though. Delays. You complain of 8 delays (I can only think of 3).  Mortal Online's release was initially scheduled for summer 2009 and has been pushed back to the end of March 2010 for a total of nine months.  Darkfall started the signup for closed Beta in Sept 2005 and launched February 2009. Even allowing 2 years from beta sign up to release, that represents a delay of 18 months.  At the very least, there is no grounds for criticizing Starvault for delays (unless you admit many Darkfall critics had a point)

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342

    Originally posted by osmunda
    There is one TOTALLY objective criteria though. Delays.

    That has nothing to do with professionalism, it is related to competecy/ability/skill.

    Unprofessional would be not to let anyone know about the delay.

    You can do crappy job but still show yourself as professional.

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by osmunda

     
    There is one TOTALLY objective criteria though. Delays.
     

     

    That has nothing to do with professionalism, it is related to competecy/ability/skill.

    Unprofessional would be not to let anyone know about the delay.

     

    You can do crappy job but still show yourself as professional.

     

    No communication is bad

    image
  • MeniasMenias Member UncommonPosts: 38
    Originally posted by osmunda

    Originally posted by Garvon3


     I see similar things happening with when Darkfall launched. Here's the big differences though.
     When Darkfall launched, there was a pre set group of people who HATED Darkfall, the vaportrolls. No one really knows why. They thought the game was fake for so many years, came up with the most INSANE conspiracy theories, and when the game was proved to be coming out, they went nuts and went on a campaign to ultimately ruin the game. So much misinformation was tossed around that many darkfall players just stopped coming to these particular forums. It wasn't ALL vapor trolls, some people just didn't like the game, but thus is life. 
    With Darkfall there was no real reason for the hatred, as the game was fairly stable and launched with most of its promised features intact and functioning.
     Mortal Online attracts large amount of hatred due to the unprofessionalism of the dev team, selling beta access for 70 bucks a pop, up to about 8 delays so far I think, and how almost NOTHING in the game works. 
    That is why people trash Mortal Online. It's not even close to how Darkfall was in alpha, or most other games. 
    And no, I'm not saying that cause I got killed, or got lost. I love the MO ideas, I LOVE not having a map, I wanted this game to succeed, but they simply didn't have enough money, or competent coders. 
    Shame. 
    So the big difference, most things that were said about Darkfall at launch were wrong, most things said about MO at launch are true. 



     

    So all the people who disliked Darkfall were insane conspiracy theorists with no real reason for the hatred since the game was fairly stable and Aventurine was the picture of professionalism?  Meanwhile all the criticism of Mortal is due to unprofessionalism, delays, and almost NOTHING in the game works?

    Not sure how to respond in a way that won't get deleted for highjacking the thread so I'll stay ultra-short. Keen and Graev's darkfall news http://www.keenandgraev.com/?cat=169

    The forum around the time of launch http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/454/page/151

    My apology to the trolls, from an ex-fanboy: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/225459

      

    I'll not get into the (un)professionalism of Starvault since neither of us is going to convince the other.  There is one TOTALLY objective criteria though. Delays. You complain of 8 delays (I can only think of 3).  Mortal Online's release was initially scheduled for summer 2009 and has been pushed back to the end of March 2010 for a total of nine months.  Darkfall started the signup for closed Beta in Sept 2005 and launched February 2009. Even allowing 2 years from beta sign up to release, that represents a delay of 18 months.  At the very least, there is no grounds for criticizing Starvault for delays (unless you admit many Darkfall critics had a point)

     



     

    Pay attention. 

    On a side note this is begining to feel a bit like moRtal online. Those who have been around for a while know that wasn't a mistake in capitalization.

    BundyTheRipper

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722

     

    Capitalism is not working when people are giving Starvault their hard earned money so they can "support" them.  That really makes me sick, if they can't release a good game, the game/company should shutdown, that's how this process should work.

    image
  • ScoorgeScoorge Member Posts: 142
    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987


     
    Capitalism is not working when people are giving Starvault their hard earned money so they can "support" them.  That really makes me sick, if they can't release a good game, the game/company should shutdown, that's how this process should work.

     

    What people do with their money is absolutely not your (or our) problem. You also do not spend "hard earned" money on a MMO preorder. Preorders are always a gamble and you should only gamble if you can afford it.

    I walked by a design store today selling neon colored rolls of toilet paper for 2,50 euros PER ROLL. What was that about hard earned money? That is literally gold some people wipe their bums with how can you not create a thread about this decadence?

    And what the hell is a "good" game. If i look over to the MO forums i see a lot of people haveing a good time... Tell you what i look around on mmorpg.com and i easily find three dozen games that are not "good", hell most of them are plain horrible! Yet thousands of peoples play those games for years. A few close down early but most of them stay alive for years. Maybe because everybody has his own defintion of "good"? Maybe people actually play and enjoy those games! But hey i think they are BAD so why the F don`t they shut down! Blasphemy!

    Guess what same will happen to MO. If they do not screw it up completely there will be people playing&paying and enjoying it. What is the problem with that? I just do not get it.

    I personally do not own MO because i preorderd once in my life (Dark&Light heh) and learned from it. So far it only got my attention as something fresh but far from finished so i just come here once in a week to check on the progress just as i do with a lot of other games.

    [Mod Edit]

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Member UncommonPosts: 1,666
    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987


     
    Capitalism is not working when people are giving Starvault their hard earned money so they can "support" them.  That really makes me sick, if they can't release a good game, the game/company should shutdown, that's how this process should work.

     

    You the kind of guy who is still not sick of mainstream MMO. Me and all the other supporters are sick of the same stuff. We need good old school rules like we had  in Ultima Online, Acheron Call, Shadowbane. We dont have any of these now. Those 3 games are dead. Ultima online have that trammel. I never played Acheron call and ShadowBane is officially dead.

    Supporting SV to allow them to make it to MO release and keep on supporting the game even if the game have some flaws at release is the only thing we can do in order to bring back sandbox games to life and to allow them to go mainstream. Even online did it, but i dont want to control a ship so this is my problem with EVE.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • osmundaosmunda Member Posts: 1,087
    Originally posted by Menias
    Originally posted by osmunda
    Originally posted by Garvon3


     It wasn't ALL vapor trolls, some people just didn't like the game, but thus is life. 



     So all   most of the people who disliked Darkfall were insane conspiracy theorists with no real reason for the hatred since the game was fairly stable and Aventurine was the picture of professionalism? 

    Pay attention. 

    On a side note this is begining to feel a bit like moRtal online. Those who have been around for a while know that wasn't a mistake in capitalization.



     

    Pay attention.

    There, does that fix it for ya?  My point remains.  Garvon was trying to portray most of the criticism of Darkfall as completely unfounded, while all criticism of Mortal is completely valid, which I consider an absurd point of view.  Admitting that it wasn't ALL vapor trolls, some were just haters, doesn't really change his premise.

    The links I provided lead to contemporaneous criticism of Darkfall around the time of launch and documents some of the very real criticisms people had at the time.

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal

    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987


     
    Capitalism is not working when people are giving Starvault their hard earned money so they can "support" them.  That really makes me sick, if they can't release a good game, the game/company should shutdown, that's how this process should work.

     

    You the kind of guy who is still not sick of mainstream MMO. Me and all the other supporters are sick of the same stuff. We need good old school rules like we had  in Ultima Online, Acheron Call, Shadowbane. We dont have any of these now. Those 3 games are dead. Ultima online have that trammel. I never played Acheron call and ShadowBane is officially dead.

    Supporting SV to allow them to make it to MO release and keep on supporting the game even if the game have some flaws at release is the only thing we can do in order to bring back sandbox games to life and to allow them to go mainstream. Even online did it, but i dont want to control a ship so this is my problem with EVE.

     

    I am sick of mainstream MMOs.  I refuse to pay for them.  But if a company releases a incomplete and broken game, I will not pay for it, I don't care how much "potential" it might have...  $15 a month to just GIVE to a company is outrageous...

    image
  • GobwarGobwar Member Posts: 121
    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

    Originally posted by Realbigdeal

    Originally posted by rlmccoy1987


     
    Capitalism is not working when people are giving Starvault their hard earned money so they can "support" them.  That really makes me sick, if they can't release a good game, the game/company should shutdown, that's how this process should work.

     

    You the kind of guy who is still not sick of mainstream MMO. Me and all the other supporters are sick of the same stuff. We need good old school rules like we had  in Ultima Online, Acheron Call, Shadowbane. We dont have any of these now. Those 3 games are dead. Ultima online have that trammel. I never played Acheron call and ShadowBane is officially dead.

    Supporting SV to allow them to make it to MO release and keep on supporting the game even if the game have some flaws at release is the only thing we can do in order to bring back sandbox games to life and to allow them to go mainstream. Even online did it, but i dont want to control a ship so this is my problem with EVE.

     

    I am sick of mainstream MMOs.  I refuse to pay for them.  But if a company releases a incomplete and broken game, I will not pay for it, I don't care how much "potential" it might have...  $15 a month to just GIVE to a company is outrageous...

    Mortal Online, hasn't been released, and it's not incomplete. It has all the promised features in for release, and you cannot say 'broken' untill it's fully released. Epic games and SV are heavily working on the desync issues, and have done huge improvements it, and it's most likely going to get fixed before launch.

    You can burn me, but i wont die.

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722
    Originally posted by Gobwar



    Mortal Online, hasn't been released, and it's not incomplete. It has all the promised features in for release, and you cannot say 'broken' untill it's fully released. Epic games and SV are heavily working on the desync issues, and have done huge improvements it, and it's most likely going to get fixed before launch.

    They have released like 12 patches so far trying to fix the desync.......

     

    And yes, the game is going to be incomplete at launch

     

     

    PS - It is not epic's fault that Starvault coded their engine wrong.  UE3 is used for small instanced games with small maps, not open world huge MMOs.  Blame it on Starvault, not epic!

    image
  • greymanngreymann Member Posts: 757

    They're in their own little world eh?  I mean if negative feedback was a sought after skill here I would be the highest paid employee.  Instead they demote me every month. lol.  If anything mmorpg wants these games to receive positive user reviews.  So, maybe your game just sucks? What? You too self-deluded to consider that?  Who gives a rip about the sandbox innovation if they're going to cover it with crap.  If sandbox is where mmo gaming needs to go then a real developer will finally do something with it and do it right.

  • triprunnertriprunner Member Posts: 169

    yes Henrik is arrogant, mouthy and cocky... reminds me of another guy whats his name? Tacos?

    c'mon people i'd like a sandbox MMO as much as any other man out there so lets give them a chance. they dont have a multimillion PR machine to prepare press releases, they do it themselves.

    at least they're honest about being skint

    image

  • rlmccoy1987rlmccoy1987 Member Posts: 1,722
    Originally posted by greymann


    They're in their own little world eh?  I mean if negative feedback was a sought after skill here I would be the highest paid employee.  Instead they demote me every month. lol.  If anything mmorpg wants these games to receive positive user reviews.  So, maybe your game just sucks? What? You too self-deluded to consider that?  Who gives a rip about the sandbox innovation if they're going to cover it with crap.  If sandbox is where mmo gaming needs to go then a real developer will finally do something with it and do it right.

     

    I believe that is his opinion.  If you do not support MO, sandbox games will die out.

    image
  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    "General Discussion » Starvault CEO: If you don't support MO, it could be the end sandbox MMOs; Does not like trolls on mmorpg.com; Will not use "carebear" publishers"

     

    Any publicity is good publicity

    maan,MO is hot.

    something from me to topic

    Starvault is publisher.

     

    Generation P

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by triprunner


    yes Henrik is arrogant, mouthy and cocky... reminds me of another guy whats his name? Tacos?
    c'mon people i'd like a sandbox MMO as much as any other man out there so lets give them a chance. they dont have a multimillion PR machine to prepare press releases, they do it themselves.
    at least they're honest about being skint

    At least Tasos spoke professionally and the vast majority of what he said was true, he didn't ramble on about "haters" with "aints" tossed in everywhere. 

    And after the rough beating Darkfall took pre launch, no one in their right mind would thing it wrong for Tasos to lash out at vaporware claims. Tacos, cute name, just proved your maturity kid. 

  • HarkkumHarkkum Member Posts: 180
    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by triprunner


    yes Henrik is arrogant, mouthy and cocky... reminds me of another guy whats his name? Tacos?
    c'mon people i'd like a sandbox MMO as much as any other man out there so lets give them a chance. they dont have a multimillion PR machine to prepare press releases, they do it themselves.
    at least they're honest about being skint

    At least Tasos spoke professionally and the vast majority of what he said was true, he didn't ramble on about "haters" with "aints" tossed in everywhere. 

    And after the rough beating Darkfall took pre launch, no one in their right mind would thing it wrong for Tasos to lash out at vaporware claims. Tacos, cute name, just proved your maturity kid. 

     

    I recall the true professional moment after Eurogamer review. Such professionalism is seldom encountered. Not to mention the case of stating that every whistle and bell ever promised by Tasos would be in the game. I feel that it is the pot calling the kettle black with this case. Both of the companies have had their moments of bad PR that is mostly due to them not having an actual person to take care of it. Although their title might indicate public relations their expertise for certain is not within that area. Thou, an efficient tactic to resort to ad hominem is always appreciated as a mark of true maturity.

This discussion has been closed.