Starvault CEO: If you don't support MO, it could be the end sandbox MMOs; Does not like trolls on mm

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Looks like SV is "punishing" the IRC folks because some of those crazy statements were linked in this thread:

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/39173-thanks.html

Oh, I don't think SV is "punishing them" so much as getting caught up in all the lies they told early on to hype up the game. They got by on the "well, IRC is unofficial" from everybody for so long, they forgot the promises they made and features they promised early on to get people really interested into the game.

 

Now that people actually look back and see what they were saying about herbalism, about seiging, about what would be in for LAUNCH -- they are stopping communication.

 

This is exactly what you get when you catch a liar actually telling the lie. They can't refute it, so they just clam up. And now that they can't get by on "Unofficial" statements in IRC (keeping hype going) without getting caught, they realize that venue of hype is over and the game actually may have to stand on its MERITS. I for one am glad they stopped posting in IRC, because all they told were promises and lies about how they fixed the desync, how they worked on previous MMOs (yea, they said that too), all the features, etc.. At least people won't be taken in by that.

 

Preach it!

rlmccoy1987

Updated OP with new info

osmunda

Originally posted by Cronnix

No offense man, spend some times googling please, will be more useful then me linking some random pics. Xsyon doesnt have a gameplay video yet thou, they were keepin g rather low profile, but its on the way.

None of them have as good graphics as MO, yet they are sandbox.

 Sorry, I guess my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough.  Xsyon is 3 weeks away from its scheduled release and there are ZERO documentation of in game footage (no videoclips, no screenshots tith GUI elements, nothing)  They really should have something if they are so close to release and expecting people to preorder the game.  Mortal may be in a rough state but we've knew more about it in July (combat alpha) than we know about Xsyon currently.  The explanation from the developers is extremely dicey.

XSYON, 3 weeks 1day ago:   "At this point, the plan is to let players make gameplay videos, for several reasons.

1) Saves us time. We're a small team and right now the main concerns are to keep improving the game features, ironing out bugs and get you guys playing.

2) It probably sounds strange, but we don't want or need more hype. We're building a nice small community right now and that's exactly what we want for the Prelude.

3) As mentioned above, a developer made video might not reflect real gameplay. I think it's just inevitable if I turn some artists loose on making game videos they will make them as nice as possible and we do have flexible camera views to do so. Also, we are more familiar with the game.

Player made videos are good in my opinion as they will reflect more what the first time player sees."

Aerrevan certainly seems more credible since they had a booth at GDC,only claim to be in the alpha stage and aren't taking preorders.  How viable they are with only 230 forum members is a major concern, however.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by osmunda

 

 Sorry, I guess my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough.  Xsyon is 3 weeks away from its scheduled release and there are ZERO documentation of in game footage (no videoclips, no screenshots tith GUI elements, nothing)  They really should have something if they are so close to release and expecting people to preorder the game.  Mortal may be in a rough state but we've knew more about it in July (combat alpha) than we know about Xsyon currently.  The explanation from the developers is extremely dicey.

XSYON, 3 weeks 1day ago:   "At this point, the plan is to let players make gameplay videos, for several reasons.

1) Saves us time. We're a small team and right now the main concerns are to keep improving the game features, ironing out bugs and get you guys playing.

2) It probably sounds strange, but we don't want or need more hype. We're building a nice small community right now and that's exactly what we want for the Prelude.

3) As mentioned above, a developer made video might not reflect real gameplay. I think it's just inevitable if I turn some artists loose on making game videos they will make them as nice as possible and we do have flexible camera views to do so. Also, we are more familiar with the game.

Player made videos are good in my opinion as they will reflect more what the first time player sees."

Aerrevan certainly seems more credible since they had a booth at GDC,only claim to be in the alpha stage and aren't taking preorders.  How viable they are with only 230 forum members is a major concern, however.

 

Everyone is worried, thats why I haven't preordered yet.  If it ends up being worse than Mortal (aka Dawntide quality) I will not buy it.

HanoverZ

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Updated OP with new info

 

What do they consider a decent audience?  They've sold what 9000 copies?    How many of those are charge-backs/refunds, people that walked away and people the wont pay monthly?

osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

What do they consider a decent audience?  They've sold what 9000 copies?    How many of those are charge-backs/refunds, people that walked away and people the wont pay monthly?

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

marmoto

I am still surprised by how devoted is the OP about MO, I like the game and I swear I dont follow it as close as him lol, honestly if I dont like a game I give an opinion then quit thinking about it, but well guess you have fun with this and a lot of attention...

HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

What do they consider a decent audience?  They've sold what 9000 copies?    How many of those are charge-backs/refunds, people that walked away and people the wont pay monthly?

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

 

 

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

 

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

 

 

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

 

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

There's no argument or debate.

Here's the most relevent poll

Will you purchase this game on March release?

Definately Yes                    11.29%

Definately No                      28.90%

Maybe                                   16.26%

I already puchased it         43.55%

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/38109-will-you-buy-game-march-take-2-a.html

WSIMike

Originally posted by Draemos

MO's failure has nothing to do with the continuation of sandbox titles.  Trying to guilt/con people into supporting a title with haphazard design elements and crap coding is a pathetic ploy of a desperate company.  Eve's success(and Darkfall's continuing growth and development) will insure the future of sandbox titles.

If anything, MO hurts the sandbox market by subjecting players to an absolutely awful experience.

A person calling a bad game bad isn't a troll.  He's just telling the truth.

 

Spot on.

DF, against pretty significant odds, pulled through and is doing okay for itself. It's not breaking any records or anything like that - but it's delivering a solid-enough and fun experience for enough people to keep going. Though I really didn't dig the way AV, specifically Tasos, handled themself for the most part... Kudos to them for pulling it off.

CCP? Well... Eve... 'nuff said. The game has proven that you can start small and build slowly over time, as long as the core of your game provides enough ongoing entertainment to keep players engaged.

Fallen Earth - maybe not pure Sandbox (depends on whose definition you use), but a large portion of it is and, again, seems to be doing well enough for itself.

And I believe there are some others out there.

Point is... MO is not "the last hope" for sandbox MMOs and the guy pleading to emotion the way he is by implying that it is somehow is... well... I don't think he can back up that kind of conceit. If their game tanks, it has nothing to do with the "genre", but with the fact that they failed to release a viable product. It really reminds me of how David Allen was talking to the community at large about Alganon... same kind of crap that only makes you think "who is he trying to kid here? Us or himself?"

But yeah... I agree with you completely.

And hey... MO might be able to pull out of this. Who knows? We'll see. It's not dead 'til it's dead.

osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

 oh wait.  i found the poll he is probably referring to.

If MO releases soon (roughly its current form) will you subscribe?

Yes   39.98%

No     60.02%

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/36938-poll-will-you-buy-subscribe-mo-its-current-state.html

The real question is that represents 40% of what number (aside from the people taking the poll)  If it applied to the 83,000 that would be an excellent start,but its likely that many of the people who are not seriously considering the game are following the forums closely enough to take the poll.  On the other hand, the poll started a month ago and is asking about its "current form", so it's likely that the same poll with the same people answering would yield a more favorable result, since most people who answered the poll on desynch issues say it has improved.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda

 oh wait.  i found the poll he is probably referring to.

If MO releases soon (roughly its current form) will you subscribe?

Yes   39.98%

No     60.02%

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/36938-poll-will-you-buy-subscribe-mo-its-current-state.html

The real question is that represents 40% of what number (aside from the people taking the poll)  If it applied to the 83,000 that would be an excellent start,but its likely that many of the people who are not seriously considering the game are following the forums closely enough to take the poll.  On the other hand, the poll started a month ago and is asking about its "current form", so it's likely that the same poll with the same people answering would yield a more favorable result, since most people who answered the poll on desynch issues say it has improved.

 You do realize that the 83,000 includes everyone that made multiple accounts right?  If SV really thought they were going to sell (or had sold) 40% of 83,000 copies (33,000) they wouldn't be pushing the game out the door and they would need more than 1 server...

 

Again though.. it doesn't really matter!   Release is a mere 4 days away.  Forumdueling won't be needed and MO will sink.. or swim..

kruler

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda

 oh wait.  i found the poll he is probably referring to.

If MO releases soon (roughly its current form) will you subscribe?

Yes   39.98%

No     60.02%

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/36938-poll-will-you-buy-subscribe-mo-its-current-state.html

The real question is that represents 40% of what number (aside from the people taking the poll)  If it applied to the 83,000 that would be an excellent start,but its likely that many of the people who are not seriously considering the game are following the forums closely enough to take the poll.  On the other hand, the poll started a month ago and is asking about its "current form", so it's likely that the same poll with the same people answering would yield a more favorable result, since most people who answered the poll on desynch issues say it has improved.

 You do realize that the 83,000 includes everyone that made multiple accounts right?  If SV really thought they were going to sell (or had sold) 40% of 83,000 copies (33,000) they wouldn't be pushing the game out the door and they would need more than 1 server...

 

Again though.. it doesn't really matter!   Release is a mere 4 days away.  Forumdueling won't be needed and MO will sink.. or swim..

 I was once told by person who amongest others things ran polls for a polictical party, that the only true result from a poll is how many idiots filled it in, he is a cynical bugger, but think he might be on the money with that view.

My opinion is there is enough niche players both normal and RP,ers to keep MO at just about its tick over rate, for a roughly 6 month period, that in itself is a shocking for a launch, but these people appear to be happy to ride out 6 months, and for all its bad press and by gods its had alot, the beta is still busy, hence my tick over numbers and i,m 50/50 on complete death in 6 months or a bit of a turn around.

But then that leads to a even harder fight, if you turn a game around some, in 6 months, alot of people no longer care, the curse of a bad launch...But there is a quite understated niche RP following, that will carry this game for a short period.

 

For one thing that the polls arnt taking into account, on these english speaking sites is how many German and Russian RP clans are active as well as normal player sites, this game has a bigger following in the EU at present, it would appear.

Spoke to several clans set up near us and theirs and our member break down is nearly the same, 20 to 30% Amercian, 60 to 70% EU and 10% made up of Australians, New Zealanders and other Oceanic areas.

So after all the bad press, I would suspect a larger fall off of Amercians than EU, leaving a very Euro centric game, which is a model the game went for anyways.

Same was said however of Darkfall s it was produced in Greece, Athens and had after a shaky start a North Amercian server added, so time will tell, going to be interesting to watch this fly or drown, or what population takes it up and runs with it, and what walks away from it.

SlyLoK

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

 

 

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

 

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

There's no argument or debate.

Here's the most relevent poll

Will you purchase this game on March release?

Definately Yes                    11.29%

Definately No                      28.90%

Maybe                                   16.26%

I already puchased it         43.55%

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/38109-will-you-buy-game-march-take-2-a.html

I would say less than 20% of the people who played the open beta even vistied the forums .

jaxsundane

Originally posted by SlyLoK

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

 

 

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

 

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

There's no argument or debate.

Here's the most relevent poll

Will you purchase this game on March release?

Definately Yes                    11.29%

Definately No                      28.90%

Maybe                                   16.26%

I already puchased it         43.55%

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/38109-will-you-buy-game-march-take-2-a.html

I would say less than 20% of the people who played the open beta even vistied the forums .

 Less than 20% during the open beta?  I don't know if I'd say it would be anywhere near that number, open beta is going to generally be full of those who seek that particular game out.  Now if you said during release less than 20% of the people playing visited open forums I could see that.  I'm an avid mmo player played tons of em but I have never recieved anything about MO because I've never sought them out.

SlyLoK

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by SlyLoK

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

 To quote Harkuum from another thread:

It is intriguing that other financial documents of Star Vault have not received similar interest. For example, the latest financial statement from Star Vault for the fiscal year 2009 shows that open beta has had a total of 83,000 testers, which I find quite a bit to be honest. Not to mention that they managed to sell 11,000 copies of the game before the open beta. It will be interesting to see how many of these 70,000+ open beta testers who have not bought their copy will actually buy one once the game is launched. If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. Something that I personally find hard to believe, but you never know

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=53958&Language=2

 

 

HAHA  Thats laughable!!!   "If their forums is of any indication, roughly 30-40% of everyone visiting there would subscribe the game which would, by all means be more than a resounding success story. "

 

If the sold another 25000+ copies they wouldnt be crying about being broke!

There's no argument or debate.

Here's the most relevent poll

Will you purchase this game on March release?

Definately Yes                    11.29%

Definately No                      28.90%

Maybe                                   16.26%

I already puchased it         43.55%

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/38109-will-you-buy-game-march-take-2-a.html

I would say less than 20% of the people who played the open beta even vistied the forums .

 Less than 20% during the open beta?  I don't know if I'd say it would be anywhere near that number, open beta is going to generally be full of those who seek that particular game out.  Now if you said during release less than 20% of the people playing visited open forums I could see that.  I'm an avid mmo player played tons of em but I have never recieved anything about MO because I've never sought them out.

Yes.

Not everyone is interested in testing a game or reporting any bugs they find. The majority are there because its free and they could care less about what happens on the forums.

HanoverZ

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 

 You do realize that the 83,000 includes everyone that made multiple accounts right?  If SV really thought they were going to sell (or had sold) 40% of 83,000 copies (33,000) they wouldn't be pushing the game out the door and they would need more than 1 server...

 

Again though.. it doesn't really matter!   Release is a mere 4 days away.  Forumdueling won't be needed and MO will sink.. or swim..

 

Regardless of  the exact numbers, SV wouldn't be considering a publisher if they had met their financial goals. 

 

Its time for MO to "stand" on its own. 

Torgrim

I find these threads really amusing becuse on this site on every game forum on this site there are trolls that basicly say the same thing, it dosent matter what game it is they are there.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Torgrim

I find these threads really amusing becuse on this site on every game forum on this site there are trolls that basicly say the same thing, it dosent matter what game it is they are there.

 

Glad you enjoy it!

HanoverZ

Originally posted by Torgrim

I find these threads really amusing becuse on this site on every game forum on this site there are trolls that basicly say the same thing, it dosent matter what game it is they are there.

 

and in every forums there are blind fanbots...  How'd Dark and Light work out for you?

Orphes

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

 

 

 

Update:

Talwin (MO moderator) telling IRC to ignore mmorpg.com:

 

 

Here are a few logs from IRC, these are the highlights:

 

Henrik does not like trolls on mmorpg.com:

 

Yea, how about that?

Lift your eyes, switch to another tab on your browser. You will find out that the mmorpg.com forum-community is talked in the same aspect as the WOW community.

Now the moderation have gotten better here. The attitude on alot the forums here have been crap, just read the stickies here and you notice that mmorpg.com is aware of the problem aswell.

Wizardry

Not that anyone cares to listen,but i have read a few articles lately from Marketing,investor experts that pretty much substantiate what the SV CEO says.Investors do not care about a great game,they are at this very moment MORE interested in flash games and games that cater to social apsects.So in essence do not expect a free form game from any developer that is trying to convince investors to come aboard.

ALL the giants are cutting back on rpg pc games and moving to the Facebook ,Phone app area.So if you enjoy Farmville,and cheap flash games that is what you are going to get,unless people support the more advanced industry.

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Wizardry

Not that anyone cares to listen,but i have read a few articles lately from Marketing,investor experts that pretty much substantiate what the SV CEO says.Investors do not care about a great game,they are at this very moment MORE interested in flash games and games that cater to social apsects.So in essence do not expect a free form game from any developer that is trying to convince investors to come aboard.

ALL the giants are cutting back on rpg pc games and moving to the Facebook ,Phone app area.So if you enjoy Farmville,and cheap flash games that is what you are going to get,unless people support the more advanced industry.

 

That is sad if it is true... 

kruler

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Wizardry

Not that anyone cares to listen,but i have read a few articles lately from Marketing,investor experts that pretty much substantiate what the SV CEO says.Investors do not care about a great game,they are at this very moment MORE interested in flash games and games that cater to social apsects.So in essence do not expect a free form game from any developer that is trying to convince investors to come aboard.

ALL the giants are cutting back on rpg pc games and moving to the Facebook ,Phone app area.So if you enjoy Farmville,and cheap flash games that is what you are going to get,unless people support the more advanced industry.

 

That is sad if it is true... 

 It is sadly true it was the subject of large discussion at 2 of the last game devolper shows, basicly they sat there and said why should we work for 5 years on a title and make 'X', when we can earn twice as much under a year for a facebook app.

I found the discussions coming out of these to be depressing to say the least.

Kraoss

Originally posted by iammats

I REMEMBER THIS!!!!!! LULZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you created an alt to necro a bunch of threads on  the forums about an obscure game?