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Why World PvP > Instanced | Arena PvP
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99% of the people on this thread have no clue what real FFA PvP is....it's almost insulting
http://prisonplanet.tv/
Oh boy...your ignorance/arrogance is getting out of control...
Add a ladder based rating system and you have PvP competition that is as "meaningful" as any other human like competition.
If you think that is worthless, than ANY human organised competition is meaningless..
A competition based on "no rules and free for everyhting" is meaningless as it can't be ... measured and quantified.
The basis of our society is based on measurement and quantification.
World PvP is uncontrollable, can't be measured and quantified. So it is actually a non event.
Sports and human performance have to be quantified to be validated.
---
As a relentless gladiator (title) in WOW you are simply the BEST rated PvP player out of 200.000 players (ty cross server competition).
Nothing is more "meaningful" than being the first in a "person vs person competition" (PvP) with fixed rules and controlled settings.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
You want MMORPG PvP to be like real life War? .. are you that delusional?
MMORPGs are games. They're not alternate dimensions. If you're not logging in to have fun, then there's something gone wrong up in your noggin. If you can only have fun in an MMORPG by griefing other players then, once again, something's up with that there limbic.
Did it ever occur to you that there's another choice for that group of "PvPers" .. ? .. i.e. to not gank the loner 'cos there's no point to it. As a happy member of the unpychotic community, I've often passed by enemy players who were alone, or too low level/wounded to be a worthy challenge.
The more you post, the more you're reminding me of those level 80 "PvPers" in WoW who slaughter NPCs in the newbie towns of the enemy faction, hoping to goad one of the level 5s into flagging so that they can slaughter 'em and /spit on the corpse.
Guess you can't handle real PvP when there's no advantage in numbers.
It's funny how you lose an argument and bring up unrelated things. I have an advantage in numbers? Where? What MMORPG do I have an advantage in numbers?
I don't like MMORPGs that have sugar coated PvP systems where you always have to have equal numbers. And FYI I come from an MMORPG where my team was routinely outnumbered 1:2 or 1:3 from the other teams. I just wasn't a huge crybaby about it like some people, who just would make excuses and give up on day 1. Wahh, I got ganged up on, time to send an email to Sony/Blizzard whining about how unfair it was.
War in MMORPGs is fun. Instanced PvP, or Fake/Controlled PvP is not fun.
And yes I am the kind of person who attacked towns in WoW because it was fun. Where else do you get World PvP in that shitty game?
Sounds like you just can't handle PvP, and anyone who enjoys PvP you label as "noob ganker" or someone who has to have a level advantage. I suggest an MMORPG for you, it's called WoW. It's nice because even on the PvP servers PvP is non existant and meaningless. And you have your nice controlled Arena PvP, and participate in it at will. After all, in carebear games both players should be able to dictate WHEN you want to PvP.
Stick to the blue MMOS
Oh boy...your ignorance/arrogance is getting out of control...
See the topic on dumbing down of MMORPGs, you will see why EVE and WoW fit in those categories.
They are kiddy MMORPGs, Mr. T, Night Elf Mohawk?
Going to tell me that a serious MMO'r plays those games? Lol!
Add a ladder based rating system and you have PvP competition that is as "meaningful" as any other human like competition.
If you think that is worthless, than ANY human organised competition is meaningless..
A competition based on "no rules and free for everyhting" is meaningless as it can't be ... measured and quantified.
The basis of our society is based on measurement and quantification.
World PvP is uncontrollable, can't be measured and quantified. So it is actually a non event.
Sports and human performance have to be quantified to be validated.
---
As a relentless gladiator (title) in WOW you are simply the BEST rated PvP player out of 200.000 players (ty cross server competition).
Nothing is more "meaningful" than being the first in a "person vs person competition" (PvP) with fixed rules and controlled settings.
Haha, what a funny post.
First off, your assumptions and conclusions are wrong, and don't even make any sense.
The sky is blue therefor World PvP is better.
World PvP can't be measured? What about when it is World PvP over resources, and the winner gets those resources? And then they have such a resource advantage they effectively take over the whole server, and alliances have to form between the weaker guilds just to stand up to that guild that controls the resources.
Gearshops shouldn't be the basis for PvP, resources should be the basis for PvP, and should occur on one server, not between people on random servers.
Oh, the title comment made me laugh. Take a WoW PvPer and stick them in a FFA PvP MMORPG and see how hardcore of a PvPer they are. They'd quit after getting PKed once. I've never met such low skilled PvPers as when I played WoW.
Yup.
Not only have you put EVE into the same category as WOW, but you have labelled EVE as a kiddy mmorpg. Aren't you looking for some forum attention this afternoon
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Not only have you put EVE into the same category as WOW, but you have labelled EVE as a kiddy mmorpg. Aren't you looking for some forum attention this afternoon
Haha ok I will retract my comment about EVE, I got carried away. It isn't a kiddy MMORPG. I have other problems w/ the game though (skill advancement system based on subscription time).
Hah, playing the "if I tell him he's lost the debate, maybe he'll go away!" card.
Sorry, pal. I'm a bit too forum savvy to fall for such a basic ruse.
And yes, ganking means that you have an advantage in numbers. Might be in levels, might be in players, doesn't matter. If you're only willing to take on fights where you can't lose, that says a lot about you.
I've highlighted the only really interesting part of your reply.
If you'd just stated "I am a griefer" in the first place this thread would probably have been a lot shorter, 'cos now I'm happy.
I'm happy that you, as a griefer, aren't happy with your inability to grief in modern games.
I'm happy that the genre is evolving to make your sort of behaviour impossible.
I'm happy that newer games will suit me more than they will suit you.
But not to worry .. there's always darkfall, huh?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
This afternoon only?
He imposes his unfound opinions to other people for some time already...
Haha ok I will retract my comment about EVE, I got carried away. It isn't a kiddy MMORPG. I have other problems w/ the game though (skill advancement system based on subscription time).
Ya I don't know many kids that would get past the first few hours in EVE, but I totally get how many people are turned off by the skill system.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You can include kids in that group too, heh...
And now you're missing on the great feeling of overcoming adversity by being a superior player. Midgard was always the underpopulated realm in DAoC, but that made them tough, and just a small group of them could change the course of a battle.
It has nothing to do with overcomming adversity (which you can still get in instanced PvP since there can be a number or level imbalance).
It has to do with how lame it is to get ganked by unfair odds and how people don't want to put up with that crap anymore. Open world and FFA PvP have become a niche market because people don't want their gameplay interupted by those who have to gank with huge advantages to have fun. So by having instanced PvP you can both PvP when you want and have a more fair chance, but due to how almost all instanced PvP is setup you can still be the underdog and pull out a win. You get all the good and non of the annoyances caused by the pathetic who have to make it their goal to ruin the game for other people.
Obviously someone who enjoys ganking lower levels or ganking 3 v 1 will always argue how great open world and ffa pvp is. But the majority doesn't find any of that fun anymore, and everyone realizes that (even the gankers). So you will only find niche games that have this feature because big companies want the big markets, the big markets don't want to be ganked when they only have 30min to an hour to log in and have some fun.
When I was a kid in the old days I enjoyed ganking, both doing it and avoiding it. I did plenty of it starting in The Realm, through UO, AC, even the early days of WoW. But I'm an adult now and it's not fun to do it or have it done to me. I want a fairer fight and it's that simple.
Hah, playing the "if I tell him he's lost the debate, maybe he'll go away!" card.
Sorry, pal. I'm a bit too forum savvy to fall for such a basic ruse.
And yes, ganking means that you have an advantage in numbers. Might be in levels, might be in players, doesn't matter. If you're only willing to take on fights where you can't lose, that says a lot about you.
I've highlighted the only really interesting part of your reply.
If you'd just stated "I am a griefer" in the first place this thread would probably have been a lot shorter, 'cos now I'm happy.
I'm happy that you, as a griefer, aren't happy with your inability to grief in modern games.
I'm happy that the genre is evolving to make your sort of behaviour impossible.
I'm happy that newer games will suit me more than they will suit you.
But not to worry .. there's always darkfall, huh?
As I've said, ganking should be made available in MMORPGs. You can gank people in your carebear MMORPG WoW. I guess that is griefing too now?
People who attack towns in WoW are griefers? LOL. It's called starting faction vs faction war. I guess when it is 2v2 instanced PvP it is ok, and when it is 100 vs 100 it is "OMG HES A GRIEFER OMG"
Wish people on this forum had some basic logic skills, but I can't expect much out of WoW fanboys.
It's funny how I'm the only one backing World PvP against you too. Why is that? Do you EVE fanboys think that World PvP is griefing too? Sick of arguing with you because you don't make any sense ever..
And now you're missing on the great feeling of overcoming adversity by being a superior player. Midgard was always the underpopulated realm in DAoC, but that made them tough, and just a small group of them could change the course of a battle.
It has nothing to do with overcomming adversity (which you can still get in instanced PvP since there can be a number or level imbalance).
It has to do with how lame it is to get ganked by unfair odds and how people don't want to put up with that crap anymore. Open world and FFA PvP have become a niche market because people don't want their gameplay interupted by those who have to gank with huge advantages to have fun. So by having instanced PvP you can both PvP when you want and have a more fair chance, but due to how almost all instanced PvP is setup you can still be the underdog and pull out a win. You get all the good and non of the annoyances caused by the pathetic who have to make it their goal to ruin the game for other people.
Obviously someone who enjoys ganking lower levels or ganking 3 v 1 will always argue how great open world and ffa pvp is. But the majority doesn't find any of that fun anymore, and everyone realizes that (even the gankers). So you will only find niche games that have this feature because big companies want the big markets, the big markets don't want to be ganked when they only have 30min to an hour to log in and have some fun.
When I was a kid in the old days I enjoyed ganking, both doing it and avoiding it. I did plenty of it starting in The Realm, through UO, AC, even the early days of WoW. But I'm an adult now and it's not fun to do it or have it done to me. I want a fairer fight and it's that simple.
If a game does not have open world PvP, then it shouldn't be labeled as a game that has PvP.
Putting in a shitty instance does not classify your game as PvP. Saying your server is PvP, then saying "You can only PvP under these conditions" does not count as PvP either. Those are artificial rules.
I should be able to attack towns, kill vendors, kill newbies. Servers should be a constant warzone. If your town gets taken over by another team and you have to go hide in another town or area, that is how it should be. What is with all this protection, it just takes away from real PvP.
The easiest explanation is usualy the correct one.
If you are the only one defending a claim, you are probably wrong and it is you making no sense here...
And on top that you do not even have a valid arguments, just opinions, you can't go wrong with this thesis.
The easiest explanation is usualy the correct one.
If you are the only one defending a claim, you are probably wrong and it is you making no sense here...
The trouble with Occam's Razor is that it's so easy to cut yourself with it.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
i prefer open world pvp because it creates real politics.
instanced or arena isnt really conflict. its pointless button mashing with no consequences (which you can also do in open pvp, if you want to set up duels and arenas)
i have yet to hear any substantial anti open pvp from a source that is not merely dismayed at being at the recieving end of a gank.
I like to play as an anti-pker. nothing was more saticfying in my mmo career than finally turning the tide and crushing the zerg (and their town, if the game allows)
open pvp creates meaningful politics, the ability to defend farmers and carebears, a realistic culture driven economy (not just some irrelevantly rising and dropping auction house full of leet looking gear)
everything matters in an open pvp game. nothing matters in pve.
The trick is not to simplify things more than what simplest explanation would be
The easiest explanation is usualy the correct one.
If you are the only one defending a claim, you are probably wrong and it is you making no sense here...
And on top that you do not even have a valid arguments, just opinions, you can't go wrong with this thesis.
Says the guy who lost every argument and decided to stop posting because he got destroyed.
Yeah, politics..
Something WoW doesn't have. You know, because politics is too complicated for those type of people. Just need to give them a nice linear game that plays itself and simple PvP systems that revolve around controlled battles with random people, and a simple to understand point system.
Open World PvP MMORPGs have alliances that are constantly being broken and formed.
Clearly the people here arguing against open World PvP are just whiners who got ganked once and decided to flame any Open World PvP MMORPGs. Couldn't handle getting PKed even if it was 3v1 or whatever. Just can't accept defeat.
There is no victory/loss nor an argument since you don't have any...
You just spout your opinions. Opinions are nothing to argue about, you can argue about arguments backing up the opinion.
There is no victory/loss nor an argument since you don't have any...
You just spout your opinions. Opinions are nothing to argue about, you can argue about arguments backing up the opinion.
Keep working on that post count, I'm sure you will eventually learn how to put up valid arguments instead of whining about how you got ganked when you tried a real MMORPG