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Why World PvP > Instanced | Arena PvP
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yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
ROFL and it's the FFA gankers who are on an ego trip!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
No, when you talk about ANY human activity to compare... you'll need a measurement and quantifcation system.
Be it sports, be it economics, be it games.
Without measurement, no quantification , no records, no results.
And the ultiumate ranking is the individual ranking based on a ladder based system.
Just like any sports ranking.
Around 6 billion people understand this rather simple principle - of recording results - , only a few MMORPG players don't seem to understand this.
as .... meaningful.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
FFA PVP is good for the anti - socials that want to pester and bully other players that are not really looking for PVP. Thats just how it is ... Two or three mates loggin on and going into a territory where they know they will run into numbs or ppl that are PVE ing ... and then "have fun" making their lifes miserable....
Now.... I dont know about you but I would love to see those ppl show up at a WOW arena tournament and show their "skills"... Oh.. wait ... I guess they hate WOW Arena cause they actually come up against ppl that want to PVP ?..
yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
It's funny how whenever these people think of World PVP they are thinking in terms of WoW, where the PvP is totally pointless because their resources are INSTANCED and can have no competition.
And it's funny how they never seem to understand that no matter how many times it is explained.
Consequences of failing at World PvP can change the balance of power on a server permanently. If one guild is really good at PvP and destroys the other guilds in raid zones and takes the PvE content for themselves.. the other guilds with low quality gear are going to have to form an alliance or something just to stand up to the geared-up guilds.
But of course there is nothing like that in WoW, each player has their own PvE content so the PvP is totally meaningless there.
That's funny, the kind of people who can handle World PvP games are a lot stronger than those who can't handle it.
People who can't handle World PvP get PKed once and they give up.
You're gonna claim that the people who give up easily are gonna take on the kind of players who played games with World PvP? Yeah right.
The only thing the WoW PvPer is at the top of is a system that is devoid of any good PvPers. Carebears competing against carebears. Once they step into a real PvP MMORPG they will realize their lack of any PvP skills.
Again, see carebear picture.
One of the reasons the Arena is disliked by them is ... because they are being confronted with ... losses.
Their ego can't take this ... for even the biggest champs in arena will lose a fight in X% of fights.
Therefore it's them who are the real carebears ... not the Arena champs.
They rather hide in unrated, unbalanced and nameless "world" pvp ... to protect their egos...
So they DO think thay are Carl Lewis instead of Tom Middleman...
A ladder based PvP system is simply too harsh for their ego's (as seen by this thread and their reactions).
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
No, when you talk about ANY human activity to compare... you'll need a measurement and quantifcation system.
Be it sports, be it economics, be it games.
Without measurement, no quantification , no records, no results.
And the ultiumate ranking is the individual ranking based on a ladder based system.
Just like any sports ranking.
Around 6 billion people understand this rather simple principle - of recording results - , only a few MMORPG players don't seem to understand this.
as .... meaningful.
Stop using WoW as a reference for World PvP. It's clear its the only game you've ever played in your whole life.
WoW is garbage and can't be used as a reference for World PvP because of lack of shared resources that cause strife.
yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
No, when you talk about ANY human activity to compare... you'll need a measurement and quantifcation system.
Be it sports, be it economics, be it games.
Without measurement, no quantification , no records, no results.
And the ultiumate ranking is the individual ranking based on a ladder based system.
Just like any sports ranking.
Around 6 billion people understand this rather simple principle - of recording results - , only a few MMORPG players don't seem to understand this.
as .... meaningful.
Stop using WoW as a reference for World PvP. It's clear its the only game you've ever played in your whole life.
WoW is garbage and can't be used as a reference for World PvP because of lack of shared resources that cause strife.
You just lost by lack of decent elements...
And this already 6 pages ago.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Yup, never played it.
I'd be interested in playing a game with that sort of mechanic, but not to the extent that I support a PvP system that allowed numerical advantage.
You already have a carebear game, called WoW. Why are you here telling other people their style of play sucks?
Open World PvPers don't have any MMORPG that has real Open World PvP with no restrictions.
Yet you are here whining about it when you clearly have your carebear instanced PvP. As I've said, you must've been really traumatized by open World PvP to give you such bias.
So in your thread of telling other people their style of play sucks, and in a post you close by telling others their style of play sucks, you're criticizing him for telling other people their style of play sucks? Did they add a Forum Troll achievement to MMORPG.com's forums or something?
Honestly I'd like to respond with the valid, rational reasons why instanced PVP is favored by most people (and why it creates better, more hardcore PVP) but (1) it's already been said in this thread and (2) you're only here to toss insults so you wouldn't care about logical debate anyway.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
yes, if your talking a bout a game identical to any pve wow clone.
most quality open pvp games are kingdom building social games. the "ratings" are the wealth and accumualted power of your guild. especially if territory can be meaningfully disputed.
It's funny how whenever these people think of World PVP they are thinking in terms of WoW, where the PvP is totally pointless because their resources are INSTANCED and can have no competition.
And it's funny how they never seem to understand that no matter how many times it is explained.
Consequences of failing at World PvP can change the balance of power on a server permanently. If one guild is really good at PvP and destroys the other guilds in raid zones and takes the PvE content for themselves.. the other guilds with low quality gear are going to have to form an alliance or something just to stand up to the geared-up guilds.
But of course there is nothing like that in WoW, each player has their own PvE content so the PvP is totally meaningless there.
Well -there were world WOW Bosses and still are. They were on FFA PVP servers and you can imagine the fun of it. Blizzard desided to stop those kind of Bosses cause overall it created little else than grief and bad tempers (pretty much like all World FFA PVP does). In the end the players actually created their OWN code of rules on how to deal with these situations.
There was world PVP in WOW. The gamers and the developers desided this was not the way forward for a long term sub based enjoyment. Call it carebear or whatever. Many players call it having fun. But there are few twised minds out there that like to have fun picking on others - thinking they are the kings of the "World".
i pvp because i like to help build and defend empires. end of story. i dont need ratings or points. i need consequences. active storylines created and defined by thousands of players relying on nothing but waves of player participation. cause and effect.
losing is still winning, when the players are writing the story. no one is playing to be the best ( they would go play some ratings based POS if thats what they wanted)
a simulated world, where players have to determine everything. this is not hard to understand. yes it comes with the risk of killers and bad guys, but thats what we're there for. to feel good about killing the same griefers you all hate so much.
in an arena, you win a match and get your name on a list. but you dont erradicate a two year old server threat, in a cross guild alliance, in a days long siege that will redefine the next two years of politics and structure.
until the pve ers recognize that people with the above view are the majority of open pvpers, they will be forced to contend with builders like AND the griefers fighting the same front, on every game that ever comes out.
On noes! I lose! It's not just that I suffer some in game penalty like in PvE. I lose!
So they kick me out of the game yes? They won't accept my subscription fees anymore or let me play again because why would they? I lost.
Man that's a bummer. I totally see your point.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
in pve, you are pretending to be your character.
in open pvp, your character is just a tool for you to actually BE your character.
The only MMORPG on ESPN-TV is WOW btw.
It's also the only MMORPG with professional PvP players.
It's also the only MMORPG with a 300.000 dollars price tag out of the game competition (with free to chose gear even).
So with these prices and world attention in the media ... it is very obvious why you don't play in this competition.
What's more meanigful than ... real life money GAINED by ... a PvP game...
)
You play for a piece of ... land that changes around, while the real best pvp players play for real life money ...
Guess who owns who ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Tell me dear sir... have you been paying for an MMO beeing on the loosing side for the past two years ?.... You know of any that has ? So..... why on earth should a game developer creating a sub based game think that ppl like to pay playing a game where they are even more of a loosers than they probably are real life ?
The outcome of a PVP is always the same... there is a winner... and there is a looser..... The winner is having fun.... the looser can tolerate loosing for period of time... but not for long... Thus... PVP FFA MMO games are a niche games played by few hundred ppl that have fun picking on the loosers until those guys deside to quit.
Yup, never played it.
I'd be interested in playing a game with that sort of mechanic, but not to the extent that I support a PvP system that allowed numerical advantage.
You already have a carebear game, called WoW. Why are you here telling other people their style of play sucks?
Open World PvPers don't have any MMORPG that has real Open World PvP with no restrictions.
Yet you are here whining about it when you clearly have your carebear instanced PvP. As I've said, you must've been really traumatized by open World PvP to give you such bias.
So in your thread of telling other people their style of play sucks, and in a post you close by telling others their style of play sucks, you're criticizing him for telling other people their style of play sucks? Did they add a Forum Troll achievement to MMORPG.com's forums or something?
Honestly I'd like to respond with the valid, rational reasons why instanced PVP is favored by most people (and why it creates better, more hardcore PVP) but (1) it's already been said in this thread and (2) you're only here to toss insults so you wouldn't care about logical debate anyway.
Wrong, people here lost logical debate so they resorted to bringing up straw man arguments (Ilvadyr)
And camp1111 or whatever lost because all he does is use WoW World PvP as a reference point.
Too bad WoW fanboys don't have the logic to put up decent arguments against World PvP other than "YOU CAN GANK OMG"
Tell me dear sir... have you been paying for an MMO beeing on the loosing side for the past two years ?.... You know of any that has ? So..... why on earth should a game developer creating a sub based game think that ppl like to pay playing a game where they are even more of a loosers than they probably are real life ?
The outcome of a PVP is always the same... there is a winner... and there is a looser..... The winner is having fun.... the looser can tolerate loosing for period of time... but not for long... Thus... PVP FFA MMO games are a niche games played by few hundred ppl that have fun picking on the loosers until those guys deside to quit.
i disagree. if someone enjoys the pvp world i am describing, they would not quit if they lost, any more than the red sox have been disbanded
the game play is whats important. in game culture is define either way. thats why people play. losers dont quit, they reform in new alliances, and try again.
PVP in WOW is just as stupid as World FFA PVP. In many ways Arena PVP has had more effect on WOW "balance" than any other aspec of that game - And that inclueds the PVE contet.
The bad thing about PVP in GENERAL that by having PVP you always have to create balance... Be that balanced skills to kill each others or whatever.... PVE oriented games are able to thrive on unbalanced class skills and still do a splendid job of keeping most of the players as winners. Sadly not many PVE games are doing this atm. THey are always balancing for PVP that alot of hte gamers dont even want to play...
Tell me dear sir... have you been paying for an MMO beeing on the loosing side for the past two years ?.... You know of any that has ? So..... why on earth should a game developer creating a sub based game think that ppl like to pay playing a game where they are even more of a loosers than they probably are real life ?
The outcome of a PVP is always the same... there is a winner... and there is a looser..... The winner is having fun.... the looser can tolerate loosing for period of time... but not for long... Thus... PVP FFA MMO games are a niche games played by few hundred ppl that have fun picking on the loosers until those guys deside to quit.
In arena and soon BG PvP you need to win the next match and the next match and the next match to get ... the season's title.
Don't tell me you don't watch sports ...
The above is the basis of all human competitions: being rated and ... awarded.
When your land becomes occupied .... you are being occupied for ... years ... and there is nothing you can do about it.
What system is the most captive one you think ... for an mmorpg ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Tell me dear sir... have you been paying for an MMO beeing on the loosing side for the past two years ?.... You know of any that has ? So..... why on earth should a game developer creating a sub based game think that ppl like to pay playing a game where they are even more of a loosers than they probably are real life ?
The outcome of a PVP is always the same... there is a winner... and there is a looser..... The winner is having fun.... the looser can tolerate loosing for period of time... but not for long... Thus... PVP FFA MMO games are a niche games played by few hundred ppl that have fun picking on the loosers until those guys deside to quit.
In arena and soon BG PvP you need to win the next match and the next match and the next match to get ... the season's title.
Don't tell me you don't watch sports ...
The above is the basis of all human competitions: being rated and ... awarded.
When your land becomes occupied .... you are being occupied for ... years ... and there is nothing you can do about it.
What system is the most captive one you think ... for an mmorpg ?
When your land becomes occupied, I bet you pack up and move to a carebear game like WoW, right?
Instead of fighting back, like any real PvPer would do in a PvP MMORPG.
Tell me dear sir... have you been paying for an MMO beeing on the loosing side for the past two years ?.... You know of any that has ? So..... why on earth should a game developer creating a sub based game think that ppl like to pay playing a game where they are even more of a loosers than they probably are real life ?
The outcome of a PVP is always the same... there is a winner... and there is a looser..... The winner is having fun.... the looser can tolerate loosing for period of time... but not for long... Thus... PVP FFA MMO games are a niche games played by few hundred ppl that have fun picking on the loosers until those guys deside to quit.
i disagree. if someone enjoys the pvp world i am describing, they would not quit if they lost, any more than the red sox have been disbanded
the game play is whats important. in game culture is define either way. thats why people play. losers dont quit, they reform in new alliances, and try again.
How much are the red sox paying in sub per month? Oh... they get payed for loosing.... Get it ? Games are buisness... you don't pay for becoming a looser. And if loosers keep paying - thinking they are doing the "world" any good by loosing all the time ...then omg are those guys stupid.... They could spend their money on getting laid instead... But hey... it takes balls to get laid...
I'm just gonna quote this and leave it up here, for posterity .. it's good for the morale of our regular forum trolls to see that they're not alone.
Yeah, this really made me smile. Also, in an earlier post you were accused of being an EVE fanboi.
Welcome to the collective.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, the best players care about making money.
There are 2 types of players in MMORPGS:
Players who care about money. These are the same people who buy/sell characters, currency, etc.
Players who don't care about money. These are the same people who play the game for fun, for challenge, etc.
And here you are claiming that the people who sit in trade areas all day are good?
You can be the best of the best in a game where everything is trivialized, doesn't mean anything. Real PvPers dont touch WoW. The only people who WoW players compete with is themselves, other unskilled players who can't survive in a FFA PvP MMORPG.
I'm just gonna quote this and leave it up here, for posterity .. it's good for the morale of our regular forum trolls to see that they're not alone.
Yeah, this really made me smile. Also, in an earlier post you were accused of being an EVE fanboi.
Welcome to the collective.
I think that people who can't argue here tend to be moderators etc.
That is why people like you and Ilvadyr still hang around here. Because the moderators who troll aren't banned.
When you defeat them in an argument, they'll say the same thing over and over again.
People who put up real arguments against todays broken MMORPGs just get banned. Whereas trolls who are pro-MMORPG and flame others still persist around here. I wonder how someone can troll for 10,000 posts and have an account here, other than if they were one of the moderators and were paid to troll.
it's hard to argue with people who are paid to argue against you, and generate more post counts. I've won this battle a long time ago, the only people arguing against what I'm saying are paid trolls for MMORPG.com
Clearly Ilvadyr doesn't even play WoW. Just a moderator, like you. Why don't you warn me again for criticizing WoW. What a joke website this is.
Anyway I am going shopping. Maybe in the future this site wont be run by moderators who are paid to troll and act pro-WoW.
You all lost, I'll destroy you in any future FFA PvP MMORPG if you step in, carebears..