So in general I agree with you that people are soft and get offended way too easily. However, this issue is not about people being offended. This is about people acting classless. You (not OP) are not cool if you call someone a nig****. You are not cool if you call someone a f*g. You are not cool using blatant sexist and racist remarks. You're a pathetic classless twit.
This stuff shouldn't be allowed not out of concern for someone's feelings, but for concern about the image we project. Make no mistake, image is everything, and image is how stereotypes are formed. Do you really want the world to think you're a classless twit just because you play games? You may think that it doesn't matter, but it does, particularly to those who work in a professional environment.
are you calling me a twit? lol or are you trying to make an example.. because you pointed out *ME* not the 'OP*
so are you sitting here talking shit to me? using different words, that aren't as "evil"?
image is nothing, thirst is everything.. obey your thirst
i get it
... and where does it end?
motherf*cker - saying that they involve themselves in incest ?
c*ck sucker - basically calling them a f*g
... and it goes on and on and on and on
but you've probably never said anything foul in your life, and if you have, never will again.. give me a break
I think I made it abundantly clear I was not talking about you. Quite ironic particularly after claiming that everyone gets offended too easily. Looks like you'd better work on getting your skin thicker before your kid's.
Young males talking trash and trying to one up each other.
This is new and unexpected.
Well, thinking about it, I guess it exists in every culture on the planet. You could say that it's just part of the human condition.
If they were playing on the same team with their moms or a girl they wanted to impress, they would behave.
There's a big difference between common young males one upping each other and people spewing hate speach anonymously over the Internet. Just because it exists in multiple cultures and just because people can act classy around women certainly doesn't make the behavior acceptable.
I think I made it abundantly clear I was not talking about you. Quite ironic particularly after claiming that everyone gets offended too easily. Looks like you'd better work on getting your skin thicker before your kid's.
replying to a message = one being upset?
i'm not, thanks for the concern though
I would certainly hope not. That would be pretty sad.
Here's what's really happening.. smack talk in games has become completely common place and thrown about freely, to the point where any previous meaning they might have had is pretty much negated. In other words what's happened is that the so called "bad talk" has become as meaningless as saying "so how about that weather today?" to the gamer generation.
As long as they keep trying to apply their old nasty meanings to words, those the source of those bad meaning will remain in the world, instead of fading into a shameful footnote in distant history.
Some around here might remember the gradual use of the term llama in the gaming community. Same thing.. no one was talking about the animal.
Young males talking trash and trying to one up each other.
This is new and unexpected.
Well, thinking about it, I guess it exists in every culture on the planet. You could say that it's just part of the human condition.
If they were playing on the same team with their moms or a girl they wanted to impress, they would behave.
There's a big difference between common young males one upping each other and people spewing hate speach anonymously over the Internet. Just because it exists in multiple cultures and just because people can act classy around women certainly doesn't make the behavior acceptable.
This, exactly.
Just because parents aren't vigilant enough to teach their offspring proper manners, give them common desency, and teach them right from wrong shouldn't clear society as a whole, be that private companies or governments, from the responsibility to do so. Ban these people from interacting on the internet to teach them a lesson, it's the least society can do.
Here's what's really happening.. smack talk in games has become completely common place and thrown about freely, to the point where any previous meaning they might have had is pretty much negated. In other words what's happened is that the so called "bad talk" has become as meaningless as saying "so how about that weather today?" to the gamer generation.
As long as they keep trying to apply their old nasty meanings to words, those the source of those bad meaning will remain in the world, instead of fading into a shameful footnote in distant history.
Some around here might remember the gradual use of the term llama in the gaming community. Same thing.. no one was talking about the animal.
Right, so it is perfectly fine to insult people and call them racially inappropriate names because if they take offense they're the ones who are wrong.
The biggest problem with this is you act like it's fine to call people n*ggers and f*gs, but you would ever walk up to someone in real life and call them those things? No? Why? Because you would get your shit kicked in for being an ignortant prick, and rightly so. Just because it's the internet doesn't give you the right to be an ignorant asshat to anyone and everyone. Have some respect for your fellow man/woman, or perhaps in your 26 years of life you haven't learned anything worthwhile from your parents, or maybe they're just as ignorant as you are.
Being competitive and being an asshole are two entirely different things.
People have been dicks online as long as I have been playing online. In fact, people have been dicks in real life so long as I have been alive. The vocal minority/squeaky wheel will always lavish more publicity.
The hallmarks of kicking ass (in all manners) in life are being forged by experience and overcoming adversity. Sack-up, I says.
Now what bothers me, is the whole shift of schools toward teaching children that "there are no winners or losers." Without a fire in our hearts, we are doomed as a species.
What are we going to do when the aliens/zombies invade? What will we do?!?!?
Though I don't agree with the article completely this is most likely an opinion conceived outside the "circle of gaming" that many of us may feel we are a part of.
Profanity alone doesn't incite a response, which is what certain players are looking for. Its not enough to try and best them skillfully in these games, but its to go a step further and employ verbose insult to injury. Playing online games as often as I do, I've come to expect this in game, and know that often times this is a sort of aggressive retaliation in lieu of facing their own inadequacy in game play.
From an outsiders perspective I can understand how these acts would be deplorable, but you see similar traits in many aggressive sports when competing against other players. Organizations that run these leagues and companies want "sportsmanlike" conduct, and even go as far as to put these in the rules of many of the games played.
So how far is too far? I certainly don't want to turn away possible friends or further competitors based on a small percentage of highly aggressive players just because they are "anonymous" and feel the need to verbally "grief" players.
On the other hand, these same unconventional unorganized instances also make online gaming a large part of why I like it. I don't know whats going to happen, and I do enjoy random vulgar conversation when the context isn't overly defamatory to a player that can't "handle" it in the same way that I've grown accustomed to.
Does it corrode online gaming experiences though? I don't think it does. I think an online experience is how you play the game... muting a person doesn't change the way the game is played, though it may make you feel better knowing you won't hear that person again. I think everyone has the opportunity to mold their own experience how they see fit. It seems to be a stark misconception from the article that they think the current devices for players to police their experience isn't good enough when its left in the players hands to make the decision.
People have been dicks online as long as I have been playing online. In fact, people have been dicks in real life so long as I have been alive. The vocal minority/squeaky wheel will always lavish more publicity.
The hallmarks of kicking ass (in all manners) in life are being forged by experience and overcoming adversity. Sack-up, I says.
Now what bothers me, is the whole shift of schools toward teaching children that "there are no winners or losers." Without a fire in our hearts, we are doomed as a species.
What are we going to do when the aliens/zombies invade? What will we do?!?!?
Sorry- had to poop in mid-post and lost focus.
The wussification of the land. I agree and it's detrimental. In the same regard, wanton, gross disrespect for another person through unprovoked hateful language should bring a hail-storm of bad karma for whomever weilds such trash, but cursing, for the most part, is nothing more than harmless expression.
I don't mind cursing at all, I have a sailors mouth. Although when I'm on something like Xbox Live, unless I'm playing with friends, I don't curse over there in game voice chat, have seen too many friends get banned for cursing teammates out or just plain old F bombs.
It's the racial slurs that have gone too far, I tend to just /ignore the person saying such things in MMOs but on Xbox Live I report them right away, it's not something I want my kids exposed too although I'm sure they'll hear it just as much in their schools, they don't need to be hearing it at home while playing a game.
I wouldn't say it ruins my online experience, I'm an adult and can handle it without getting all pissed off about it, there is a reason for the /ignore and report functions in place in most games, it's up to the gaming companies to actually support these fuctions, and follow through with their policies, though.
"orcs and trolls will break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
grow a pair, its words... i remember being a child and being able to tolerate more than modern day adults, wtf is going on here...
You also grew up in a time much closer to events like the holocaust and the American civil rights movement, if modern day adults are the problem now they are a much better problem than past generations of "modern day adults".
um no
i'm 26, and everyone these days try to make someone else accountable for themselves being soft, or unable to achieve their goals
really words? words make you upset? even someone on voice.. who cares.. I don't get it
i'm having my first child on monday, and i plan on teaching my boy to be thick skinned and be able to stick up for himself and not shed tears at every comment made towards him or around him lol
Your original comment then is pretty much shot down by your last comment at twenty six years old you are pretty much the median you are the "modern day adults" you speak of so it kind of makes me look on your comment quizzically I guess your really saying everyone else is raised wrong except you.
Now in regards to this story we aren't even talking about an incident we are talking about a pattern of behavior I don't see any one person complaining about a specific incident but I shouldn't have to be called a derogatory name every time I kick someones ass in a game.
And I agree a bit with your philosophy but I hope you equally teach your child that calling people racist and insensitive things is just as bad as crying everytime someone calls them something.
My problem with stances like yours is far too often it only comes from people who have never had to deal with racist remarks against them because I don't know anyone who ever has who thinks people should be allowed to talk to anyone like that.
I would be best to judge than, if I think the modern day adults are soft, as I am one? Its not a matter of being the only one raised correctly, I know plenty of people who don't get bothered by crap like this. I also know people who can't deal with even being called a bitch, or an asshole without getting sent into a wild frenzy of self doubt.
I do plan on teaching my child the rights and wrongs of being a racist or making comments of the similar sort, but where is the line drawn? I mean it is getting to a point where being a "bully" can get you in legal trouble as a child, because children aren't being raised with the stones to handle it, because either the parents aren't being apart of the solution or they themselves tuck their tail between their legs.
As for dealing with racist remarks, I'm a white guy with red hair, I've heard plenty and delt with plenty, I embraced it, and flipped it on the vurbal attacks and had fun with it. Being called carrothead, big red, whatever and I embraced it as a nickname which many called me in jr high and high school.. I've gotten the cracker and whatever else crap too.. its nothing to me honestly.
Being very thin I've been called a beanpole stick man etc. but it doesn't compare to what I've seen and at times experienced growing up as a poor black boy/man in the deep south or even where I live now. I also think what those who consider themselves on the side of neutrality for the sake of free speech need to remember is the attitudes that go along with the words we speak about in this post are systematic of not just "picking" on someone but holding some down and in other cases genocide.
In truth I tend to want the options we are provided but no one who has never experienced what some of have cannot fathom the anxiety itself inherent in us even thinking about playing a game competitively and leaving the chat open. Given some of the things I have heard as recently as last November playing a game.
I'm sorry I just cannot get around the seriousness of it, I am confident we will not lose our freedom of speech and sadly also pretty certain I will see racism and genocide til the day I decide to stop caring but no I am not going to sit here and try to even entertain that saying those types of things is no big deal nor that those who have to hear it should just toughen up. The irony of telling someone who's family survived slavery,genocide,racism or any other form of enslavement is the fact that they've already shown plenty of toughness to even be here now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Here's what's really happening.. smack talk in games has become completely common place and thrown about freely, to the point where any previous meaning they might have had is pretty much negated. In other words what's happened is that the so called "bad talk" has become as meaningless as saying "so how about that weather today?" to the gamer generation.
As long as they keep trying to apply their old nasty meanings to words, those the source of those bad meaning will remain in the world, instead of fading into a shameful footnote in distant history.
Some around here might remember the gradual use of the term llama in the gaming community. Same thing.. no one was talking about the animal.
I'm part of the gamer generation and you certainly don't speak for me. In fact, I believe you're completely wrong. I don't in any way think this is acceptable behavior for the majority of the gamer generation. Those who do are but a negative fringe of society. Most civilized societies actively discourage such behavior, so this should come as no surprise.
Ehrm... People are going to say things that they don't generally mean when they're in competitive play, nomatter what source they use to be competitive. Be it sports, games with friends, or videogames, vulgarity is always present. Generally people don't mean half of the things they say during competitive play, and i'm sure every person can relate to this statement from real life examples, so the argument that people actually mean what they say is invalid.
Anyway, if this use of language offends you, you can either suck it up and maybe even laugh at it, or mute it.
People make too big an issue out of insignificant things such as this.
And this is what people will continue to say until the day some incident comes to pass where someone is killed over a remark they made in game then what?
Then perhaps others will learn their lessons and stop saying these things. But it's a lesson they need to learn for themselves. The company can try to make a pleasant gaming environment for everyone, but the best way to do that is give the power to the players. Mute, ignore, etc. I'm a proponent of bigger ignore lists, by the way.
Though the chances of something like that happening are slim and none. Especially over a game of Call of Duty. I read about emotional attachments leading to suicides in MMOs, but never emotional reactions leading to homicide in FPSs. Have any articles I could read?
No I don't know of it to have happened yet but the fact that is meetings between people offline through online experience is becoming more and more common place so it becomes that much more likely. But I also want to address the first part of your statement, you say it's a lesson they need to learn for themselves and I think you are right but how they learn is what is at question. If you suggest maybe they should be allowed to take their lumps so to speak I'm fine with that, but concerned about the people who they step on along the way who are not going to let them get to them enough to react whether in game or taking it out on someone else. What about them? We should allow people who may not even be racist or antisemetic spew hate speech to hundreds of people til they finally test someone crazy enough to lash back out at them? Not a good solution to me because truthfully I care enough about them all equally and would rather see the right pressures put on the first offender so that no one else has to suffer.
Hate speech folks is not cursing and should not be looked at the same way speaking for myself and I would think others too it's a threat and it shouldn't be tolerated.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Yes, it does ruin the online experience. There is nothing worthwhile about idiots screaming profanties or racial/gay slurs. Its aimed at ruining one's time. Now, I ignore it, because only a fool would respond. It does ruin my experience though. Even if its not directed at me I hate seeing it in the chat window. It makes me feel like an idiot for playing the same game. I wish I could blame it on youth, but I'm willing to bet a lot of "adults" are the ones behind the screen typing or shouting these idiotic words.
It goes on constantly in populated zones. I wish I could say it was just WoW, but its not. Although, being in a capital in WoW and trying to read chat will make someone's head explode if you're not prepared to be onslaughted by some of the dumbest, most worthless basement dwellers. Even in LoTRo, which I've recently started, in the newb zones there is constant mindless chatter and insults from the free trial people in the advice channel.
I remember back before WoW during EQ and DAoC people who would talk like a 10 year old would quickly disappear. Either being chastised by the players, or a GM suspending them or shutting them up with their presence. Nowadays, its a constant thing. You see it in WoW capitals, WoW BGs, and normally in other games its the free trial player channels. Don't even get me started on COD or Halo. Just be prepared to be insulted win or lose. I don't know why there is no moderation, and the company doesn't take these complaints seriously. I think it puts both the players and the company in a bad light.
Ehrm... People are going to say things that they don't generally mean when they're in competitive play, nomatter what source they use to be competitive. Be it sports, games with friends, or videogames, vulgarity is always present. Generally people don't mean half of the things they say during competitive play, and i'm sure every person can relate to this statement from real life examples, so the argument that people actually mean what they say is invalid.
Anyway, if this use of language offends you, you can either suck it up and maybe even laugh at it, or mute it.
People make too big an issue out of insignificant things such as this.
I think that what people say when they are anonymous and can get away with it says a lot more about their character, or lack of it, then when they have to be responsible for their words. Hate speech isn't cute, or funny, or youthful hijinx, or "just part of a game." It's behavior that reflects a serious flaw in the speaker's behavior and values.
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" It's not just cyberbullets that are exchanged during firefights on the XBox Live version of "Call of Duty."
Many gamers also exchange hate speech over their headsets as they stalk each other across the virtual battlefields. Players trade racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic insults so frequently that game makers are taking steps to tone down the rhetoric.
The comments would shock parents who may not realize their children are constantly exposed to language that might make a sailor blush. Most parental concerns have focused on violence, not language.
One gamer told an opponent he presumed to be Jewish that he wished Hitler had succeeded in his mission. Many exchanges involve talk of rape or exult over the atomic bombing of Japan. There are frequent slurs on homosexuals, Asians, Hispanics and women.
Such comments can be heard on all online video gaming systems, including PlayStation Network, Blizzard Entertainment (World of Warcraft) and others."
Isn't your post against hate speech also hate speech? You hate hate speech. Sorry, life is too short, move on do something productive and real. This is a non-issue...
I played an online strategy game through last summer. I got to know the poeple very well and considered most of them poeple I could be friends with. About 6 weeks in one of them said something racist and then the floodgates opened. The poeple who I admired, respected etc.. (not all the rest were silent - except 2 of us) started spouting some crap that just made me second guess my judgement of them.
This happened in a slow paced game that required a lot of communicaiton.. . not an FPS. I have also been suprised by this in MMOs where someone says something. . someone comments on it and they are suprised someone would be offended.
BUT....
I never hear this garbage outside in the "real world". . so yes. . anonymity I guess.
Ehrm... People are going to say things that they don't generally mean when they're in competitive play, nomatter what source they use to be competitive. Be it sports, games with friends, or videogames, vulgarity is always present. Generally people don't mean half of the things they say during competitive play, and i'm sure every person can relate to this statement from real life examples, so the argument that people actually mean what they say is invalid.
Anyway, if this use of language offends you, you can either suck it up and maybe even laugh at it, or mute it.
People make too big an issue out of insignificant things such as this.
I think that what people say when they are anonymous and can get away with it says a lot more about their character, or lack of it, then when they have to be responsible for their words. Hate speech isn't cute, or funny, or youthful hijinx, or "just part of a game." It's behavior that reflects a serious flaw in the speaker's behavior and values.
Very well said. No one acts like this with friends. They would quickly find themselves without friends. Never has a friend, or a stranger for that matter, gone off on me, using racial/gay slurs, expect in video games. We aren't talking about mild vulgarity, or the occasional F bomb. Of course, most people do that. We are talking about verbally attacking someone through the internet.
I've played sports all throughout high school(track, cross country, and basketabll), and continue to play volleyball to this day. Never was there any disrespect. I've never walked into a match where people are flinging curse words, and slurs at one another. They would quickly be escorted off the premises, or worse.
I have to wonder at Jakojako's participation if he thinks this is what happens during face to face competition. Jakojako, if you're verbally assualting your friends with racial/gay slurs you may want to rethink that strategy. I don't know many people who would put up with that.
Wow. There are a lot of overly sensetive pansies out there.
Seriously, pull up your panties, ladies and play. Or don't play and avoid having your fragile little feelings hurt by the harmless words of someone you never have and never will meet face to face.
Man, I miss lawn darts and merry go rounds on metal playgrounds, we used to actually have tools to weed out the weak and stupid among us. Now everything is made of friggin' Nerf...
Wow. There are a lot of overly sensetive pansies out there.
Seriously, pull up your panties, ladies and play. Or don't play and avoid having your fragile little feelings hurt by the harmless words of someone you never have and never will meet face to face.
Man, I miss lawn darts and merry go rounds on metal playgrounds, we used to actually have tools to weed out the weak and stupid among us. Now everything is made of friggin' Nerf...
And that is the same thing I say to people who feel the need to use hate speech in a game "seriously,pull up your panties ,ladies and play. Or don't and avoid having your fragile little feelings hurt by the harmless actions (in a video game the operative word being game) of someone you never have and may never meet face to face."
And it pretty much sums up my commentary to you and your opinion on the subject.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
From personal experience, the console FPS tends to get the worst of any voice-chat abuse. It's not that people are genuinely that much of a bigot/retard, it's just that they "can be". I had a roommate who would yell into his mic just to annoy people on games like Counterstrike, and when I ask him "wtf man?" he'll respond "what? no, screw these people, haha.". The things you wish you could do in person, but don't, get vented on the internet. It's gross, and makes me question what the first years after the invention of the telephone must have been like.
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Parents who grew up before the internet don't CARE about internet gaming. As in they have no interest in playing it themselves. This results in kids having to find their way on the internet alone because their parents and grandparents are scared to death of this whole "cyberspace thing". Honestly, who honestly calls the internet "cyberspace" anymore? Only people born a long time ago or only sometimes when internet seems boring - but ALWAYS, ALWAYS the media will call it the "cyberspace" like a redneck from Texas would. Don't worry, I was born a redneck in Texas so I know what I'm talking about. Oh, and I still am sorta a redneck in Texas.
The lucky few kids who have parents interested in playing games or kids born in the 1980s (that's me) just now growing up who do care about them just simply teach themselves how to act mature on the internet because they are intelligent human beings. They aren't stupid.
There's this thing called argueing. People don't realize how much of a waste argueing is until they've been on the internet. On the internet you learn just how infinite arguements are.
So you have the internet with limited ways to restrict users from saying anything they want in the form of games like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 or chat programs like AIM and social networking system stuff like twitter and myspace etc, drawing whatever they want, uploading whatever they want, and playing however they want given certain rules.
It's like football, the football players will play however they can to win. You give football players helmets so they start using their head as weapons.
People just have to teach themselves to not talk to the idiots who want to argue. Don't feed the trolls, as is commonly said.
Comments
Young males talking trash and trying to one up each other.
This is new and unexpected.
Well, thinking about it, I guess it exists in every culture on the planet. You could say that it's just part of the human condition.
If they were playing on the same team with their moms or a girl they wanted to impress, they would behave.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I think I made it abundantly clear I was not talking about you. Quite ironic particularly after claiming that everyone gets offended too easily. Looks like you'd better work on getting your skin thicker before your kid's.
There's a big difference between common young males one upping each other and people spewing hate speach anonymously over the Internet. Just because it exists in multiple cultures and just because people can act classy around women certainly doesn't make the behavior acceptable.
I would certainly hope not. That would be pretty sad.
Building a house out of straws aren't they.
Here's what's really happening.. smack talk in games has become completely common place and thrown about freely, to the point where any previous meaning they might have had is pretty much negated. In other words what's happened is that the so called "bad talk" has become as meaningless as saying "so how about that weather today?" to the gamer generation.
As long as they keep trying to apply their old nasty meanings to words, those the source of those bad meaning will remain in the world, instead of fading into a shameful footnote in distant history.
Some around here might remember the gradual use of the term llama in the gaming community. Same thing.. no one was talking about the animal.
This, exactly.
Just because parents aren't vigilant enough to teach their offspring proper manners, give them common desency, and teach them right from wrong shouldn't clear society as a whole, be that private companies or governments, from the responsibility to do so. Ban these people from interacting on the internet to teach them a lesson, it's the least society can do.
Right, so it is perfectly fine to insult people and call them racially inappropriate names because if they take offense they're the ones who are wrong.
The biggest problem with this is you act like it's fine to call people n*ggers and f*gs, but you would ever walk up to someone in real life and call them those things? No? Why? Because you would get your shit kicked in for being an ignortant prick, and rightly so. Just because it's the internet doesn't give you the right to be an ignorant asshat to anyone and everyone. Have some respect for your fellow man/woman, or perhaps in your 26 years of life you haven't learned anything worthwhile from your parents, or maybe they're just as ignorant as you are.
Being competitive and being an asshole are two entirely different things.
People have been dicks online as long as I have been playing online. In fact, people have been dicks in real life so long as I have been alive. The vocal minority/squeaky wheel will always lavish more publicity.
The hallmarks of kicking ass (in all manners) in life are being forged by experience and overcoming adversity. Sack-up, I says.
Now what bothers me, is the whole shift of schools toward teaching children that "there are no winners or losers." Without a fire in our hearts, we are doomed as a species.
What are we going to do when the aliens/zombies invade? What will we do?!?!?
Sorry- had to poop in mid-post and lost focus.
Though I don't agree with the article completely this is most likely an opinion conceived outside the "circle of gaming" that many of us may feel we are a part of.
Profanity alone doesn't incite a response, which is what certain players are looking for. Its not enough to try and best them skillfully in these games, but its to go a step further and employ verbose insult to injury. Playing online games as often as I do, I've come to expect this in game, and know that often times this is a sort of aggressive retaliation in lieu of facing their own inadequacy in game play.
From an outsiders perspective I can understand how these acts would be deplorable, but you see similar traits in many aggressive sports when competing against other players. Organizations that run these leagues and companies want "sportsmanlike" conduct, and even go as far as to put these in the rules of many of the games played.
So how far is too far? I certainly don't want to turn away possible friends or further competitors based on a small percentage of highly aggressive players just because they are "anonymous" and feel the need to verbally "grief" players.
On the other hand, these same unconventional unorganized instances also make online gaming a large part of why I like it. I don't know whats going to happen, and I do enjoy random vulgar conversation when the context isn't overly defamatory to a player that can't "handle" it in the same way that I've grown accustomed to.
Does it corrode online gaming experiences though? I don't think it does. I think an online experience is how you play the game... muting a person doesn't change the way the game is played, though it may make you feel better knowing you won't hear that person again. I think everyone has the opportunity to mold their own experience how they see fit. It seems to be a stark misconception from the article that they think the current devices for players to police their experience isn't good enough when its left in the players hands to make the decision.
The wussification of the land. I agree and it's detrimental. In the same regard, wanton, gross disrespect for another person through unprovoked hateful language should bring a hail-storm of bad karma for whomever weilds such trash, but cursing, for the most part, is nothing more than harmless expression.
I don't mind cursing at all, I have a sailors mouth. Although when I'm on something like Xbox Live, unless I'm playing with friends, I don't curse over there in game voice chat, have seen too many friends get banned for cursing teammates out or just plain old F bombs.
It's the racial slurs that have gone too far, I tend to just /ignore the person saying such things in MMOs but on Xbox Live I report them right away, it's not something I want my kids exposed too although I'm sure they'll hear it just as much in their schools, they don't need to be hearing it at home while playing a game.
I wouldn't say it ruins my online experience, I'm an adult and can handle it without getting all pissed off about it, there is a reason for the /ignore and report functions in place in most games, it's up to the gaming companies to actually support these fuctions, and follow through with their policies, though.
Being very thin I've been called a beanpole stick man etc. but it doesn't compare to what I've seen and at times experienced growing up as a poor black boy/man in the deep south or even where I live now. I also think what those who consider themselves on the side of neutrality for the sake of free speech need to remember is the attitudes that go along with the words we speak about in this post are systematic of not just "picking" on someone but holding some down and in other cases genocide.
In truth I tend to want the options we are provided but no one who has never experienced what some of have cannot fathom the anxiety itself inherent in us even thinking about playing a game competitively and leaving the chat open. Given some of the things I have heard as recently as last November playing a game.
I'm sorry I just cannot get around the seriousness of it, I am confident we will not lose our freedom of speech and sadly also pretty certain I will see racism and genocide til the day I decide to stop caring but no I am not going to sit here and try to even entertain that saying those types of things is no big deal nor that those who have to hear it should just toughen up. The irony of telling someone who's family survived slavery,genocide,racism or any other form of enslavement is the fact that they've already shown plenty of toughness to even be here now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Lets keep the discussion going
, but avoid any personal attacks on other users.
I'm part of the gamer generation and you certainly don't speak for me. In fact, I believe you're completely wrong. I don't in any way think this is acceptable behavior for the majority of the gamer generation. Those who do are but a negative fringe of society. Most civilized societies actively discourage such behavior, so this should come as no surprise.
No I don't know of it to have happened yet but the fact that is meetings between people offline through online experience is becoming more and more common place so it becomes that much more likely. But I also want to address the first part of your statement, you say it's a lesson they need to learn for themselves and I think you are right but how they learn is what is at question. If you suggest maybe they should be allowed to take their lumps so to speak I'm fine with that, but concerned about the people who they step on along the way who are not going to let them get to them enough to react whether in game or taking it out on someone else. What about them? We should allow people who may not even be racist or antisemetic spew hate speech to hundreds of people til they finally test someone crazy enough to lash back out at them? Not a good solution to me because truthfully I care enough about them all equally and would rather see the right pressures put on the first offender so that no one else has to suffer.
Hate speech folks is not cursing and should not be looked at the same way speaking for myself and I would think others too it's a threat and it shouldn't be tolerated.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Yes, it does ruin the online experience. There is nothing worthwhile about idiots screaming profanties or racial/gay slurs. Its aimed at ruining one's time. Now, I ignore it, because only a fool would respond. It does ruin my experience though. Even if its not directed at me I hate seeing it in the chat window. It makes me feel like an idiot for playing the same game. I wish I could blame it on youth, but I'm willing to bet a lot of "adults" are the ones behind the screen typing or shouting these idiotic words.
It goes on constantly in populated zones. I wish I could say it was just WoW, but its not. Although, being in a capital in WoW and trying to read chat will make someone's head explode if you're not prepared to be onslaughted by some of the dumbest, most worthless basement dwellers. Even in LoTRo, which I've recently started, in the newb zones there is constant mindless chatter and insults from the free trial people in the advice channel.
I remember back before WoW during EQ and DAoC people who would talk like a 10 year old would quickly disappear. Either being chastised by the players, or a GM suspending them or shutting them up with their presence. Nowadays, its a constant thing. You see it in WoW capitals, WoW BGs, and normally in other games its the free trial player channels. Don't even get me started on COD or Halo. Just be prepared to be insulted win or lose. I don't know why there is no moderation, and the company doesn't take these complaints seriously. I think it puts both the players and the company in a bad light.
I think that what people say when they are anonymous and can get away with it says a lot more about their character, or lack of it, then when they have to be responsible for their words. Hate speech isn't cute, or funny, or youthful hijinx, or "just part of a game." It's behavior that reflects a serious flaw in the speaker's behavior and values.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I played an online strategy game through last summer. I got to know the poeple very well and considered most of them poeple I could be friends with. About 6 weeks in one of them said something racist and then the floodgates opened. The poeple who I admired, respected etc.. (not all the rest were silent - except 2 of us) started spouting some crap that just made me second guess my judgement of them.
This happened in a slow paced game that required a lot of communicaiton.. . not an FPS. I have also been suprised by this in MMOs where someone says something. . someone comments on it and they are suprised someone would be offended.
BUT....
I never hear this garbage outside in the "real world". . so yes. . anonymity I guess.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Very well said. No one acts like this with friends. They would quickly find themselves without friends. Never has a friend, or a stranger for that matter, gone off on me, using racial/gay slurs, expect in video games. We aren't talking about mild vulgarity, or the occasional F bomb. Of course, most people do that. We are talking about verbally attacking someone through the internet.
I've played sports all throughout high school(track, cross country, and basketabll), and continue to play volleyball to this day. Never was there any disrespect. I've never walked into a match where people are flinging curse words, and slurs at one another. They would quickly be escorted off the premises, or worse.
I have to wonder at Jakojako's participation if he thinks this is what happens during face to face competition. Jakojako, if you're verbally assualting your friends with racial/gay slurs you may want to rethink that strategy. I don't know many people who would put up with that.
Wow. There are a lot of overly sensetive pansies out there.
Seriously, pull up your panties, ladies and play. Or don't play and avoid having your fragile little feelings hurt by the harmless words of someone you never have and never will meet face to face.
Man, I miss lawn darts and merry go rounds on metal playgrounds, we used to actually have tools to weed out the weak and stupid among us. Now everything is made of friggin' Nerf...
And that is the same thing I say to people who feel the need to use hate speech in a game "seriously,pull up your panties ,ladies and play. Or don't and avoid having your fragile little feelings hurt by the harmless actions (in a video game the operative word being game) of someone you never have and may never meet face to face."
And it pretty much sums up my commentary to you and your opinion on the subject.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
From personal experience, the console FPS tends to get the worst of any voice-chat abuse. It's not that people are genuinely that much of a bigot/retard, it's just that they "can be". I had a roommate who would yell into his mic just to annoy people on games like Counterstrike, and when I ask him "wtf man?" he'll respond "what? no, screw these people, haha.". The things you wish you could do in person, but don't, get vented on the internet. It's gross, and makes me question what the first years after the invention of the telephone must have been like.
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lol@ parents would be shocked
To put it more intelligently:
Parents who grew up before the internet don't CARE about internet gaming. As in they have no interest in playing it themselves. This results in kids having to find their way on the internet alone because their parents and grandparents are scared to death of this whole "cyberspace thing". Honestly, who honestly calls the internet "cyberspace" anymore? Only people born a long time ago or only sometimes when internet seems boring - but ALWAYS, ALWAYS the media will call it the "cyberspace" like a redneck from Texas would. Don't worry, I was born a redneck in Texas so I know what I'm talking about. Oh, and I still am sorta a redneck in Texas.
The lucky few kids who have parents interested in playing games or kids born in the 1980s (that's me) just now growing up who do care about them just simply teach themselves how to act mature on the internet because they are intelligent human beings. They aren't stupid.
There's this thing called argueing. People don't realize how much of a waste argueing is until they've been on the internet. On the internet you learn just how infinite arguements are.
So you have the internet with limited ways to restrict users from saying anything they want in the form of games like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 or chat programs like AIM and social networking system stuff like twitter and myspace etc, drawing whatever they want, uploading whatever they want, and playing however they want given certain rules.
It's like football, the football players will play however they can to win. You give football players helmets so they start using their head as weapons.
People just have to teach themselves to not talk to the idiots who want to argue. Don't feed the trolls, as is commonly said.
Editted to say I still am a redneck in Texas:P