I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
Your co-worker is now officially my favorite person.
So what do you think? Does hate speech ruin our online experience, or is it just part of the online world?
Old, old news. There was a lot of chat like this when playing games as old as Mechwarrior and Starfleet Battles online. It's not just part of the online world, it's part of the ACTUAL world, and has been ever since the first caveman tribe hated the other lot in the next valley. Sad but true, but the good news is that today it's usually limited to the educationally challenged and socially inept. The bad news is that there's a hell of a lot of them around!
I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
Your co-worker is now officially my favorite person.
Edit: "Mine too, by the way." -My wife
I think it sums it up nicely.
I don't think there's any doubt that "hate speech", racial slurs, etc. are bad, but this sterilization of anything percieved as negative is getting ridiculous. OMG, someone said the N-word! Is it bad? Yes. Is it new? No. Hearing the utterance of n, followed by the sound of a short i, a pair of g's, and an "er", is not going to suddenly cause the world to stop spinning. Shun the person. Use censoring tools available to you, like mute, ignore, etc. You have the power to make it go away. Otherwise, you're only calling more attention to it than is necessary.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
honestly if you can't handle it use filters, play only with friends and stay out of voice chat with random people, if a game forces to stay nice and helpfull it makes me vomit all over it and leave
Btw don't misunderstand me i don't rage nor flame in any game but i hate censorship of such with a passion.
Competitiveness + anonymity = douche bag behavior.
Is anyone really surprised? People talk trash during all forms of competitive activities, sports, gambling and gaming. The problem is that with the anonymity that comes with being on the internet and readily available VoIP communication, it has become so much easier for people to talk trash to each other. The plus side is that whereas in real life you can get a beating for stepping out of line, on the internet, you're virtually untouchable.
There is nothing you can do about it. Companies can hire GMs and implement all sorts of filters but as long as there is anonymity and competitive gaming, the trash talking and the abuse will continue.
Those who have played MMOs on PvP and PvE servers will notice that 9 times out of 10 (EVE being the exception) most PvP servers are filled with trash talking douche bags while PvE servers tend to be milder. Competition brings out the worst in us and anonymity allows us to get away with it. It's human nature.
Eve is not an exception...spend more time in low sec where people talk trash from stations.
Maybe it's because the only place left where you can speak your mind on such issues involving race, religion and sexuality without being arrested is the internet now? It used to be a free society where you were allowed to dislike homosexuals (it was illegal when I was growing up) or voice your opinions on Africans/Asians or Muslims no matter how ignorant someone else believed them to be. Fast forward 20 years and now in my country you'd be arrested for just speaking to a friend on such matters in a public house or anywhere outside your own home and sometimes even in your own home if overheard.
The internet is the only place you can say such things without the thought police kicking in your door and dragging you infront of a judge ... for now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
Your co-worker is now officially my favorite person.
"orcs and trolls will break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
grow a pair, its words... i remember being a child and being able to tolerate more than modern day adults, wtf is going on here...
You also grew up in a time much closer to events like the holocaust and the American civil rights movement, if modern day adults are the problem now they are a much better problem than past generations of "modern day adults".
um no
i'm 26, and everyone these days try to make someone else accountable for themselves being soft, or unable to achieve their goals
really words? words make you upset? even someone on voice.. who cares.. I don't get it
i'm having my first child on monday, and i plan on teaching my boy to be thick skinned and be able to stick up for himself and not shed tears at every comment made towards him or around him lol
Your original comment then is pretty much shot down by your last comment at twenty six years old you are pretty much the median you are the "modern day adults" you speak of so it kind of makes me look on your comment quizzically I guess your really saying everyone else is raised wrong except you.
Now in regards to this story we aren't even talking about an incident we are talking about a pattern of behavior I don't see any one person complaining about a specific incident but I shouldn't have to be called a derogatory name every time I kick someones ass in a game.
And I agree a bit with your philosophy but I hope you equally teach your child that calling people racist and insensitive things is just as bad as crying everytime someone calls them something.
My problem with stances like yours is far too often it only comes from people who have never had to deal with racist remarks against them because I don't know anyone who ever has who thinks people should be allowed to talk to anyone like that.
I would be best to judge than, if I think the modern day adults are soft, as I am one? Its not a matter of being the only one raised correctly, I know plenty of people who don't get bothered by crap like this. I also know people who can't deal with even being called a bitch, or an asshole without getting sent into a wild frenzy of self doubt.
I do plan on teaching my child the rights and wrongs of being a racist or making comments of the similar sort, but where is the line drawn? I mean it is getting to a point where being a "bully" can get you in legal trouble as a child, because children aren't being raised with the stones to handle it, because either the parents aren't being apart of the solution or they themselves tuck their tail between their legs.
As for dealing with racist remarks, I'm a white guy with red hair, I've heard plenty and delt with plenty, I embraced it, and flipped it on the vurbal attacks and had fun with it. Being called carrothead, big red, whatever and I embraced it as a nickname which many called me in jr high and high school.. I've gotten the cracker and whatever else crap too.. its nothing to me honestly.
It's not about being soft or have tough skin. There is nothing in that. I really doubt this question has been raised from someone /occasionally/ saying 'bitch'. 'asshole' or whatever.
You have to pick. Is it ok to harass people, being a bully, or not. The society is moving forward and is developing. From being the victim of a bully needing to change school to that the actual bully is the one needing to move. We as a society has moved past alot of things. Telling the kid to HTFU is the easy solution.
Since when is it be ok to not meet other people with respect? And with the age we are in, when alot of the community is on the internet, we really should move the everyday respect we ask from others to be on the internets aswell.
I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
Your co-worker is now officially my favorite person.
Edit: "Mine too, by the way." -My wife
Mine too!
This so called "Co worker" is probably full of it or a product of your imagination for the sake of this thread discussion. Living in NYC, knowing several gay persons and have two BFF that are gay ("and born that way" as they would say) I beleive they would beg to differ. When the whole "Thats Ghey!" launched on the internet several years ago (and into the rl) I did ask them about it and yes they did inform me that they found the term, when used excessively, offensive. Are they overly sensitive? Hell no. THey live in a society that stereotypes gays in media all the time (subtlely and not so subtlely) so they definitely have thick skins. But to hear it every other sentence in the way it is/was being used in online gaming? No, I dont think anyone would want to hear a derogative of their race/gender/religious belief/sexual orientation in that way. Would any of you care to hear White Trash, Trailer Park Trash or H-----y within every sentence night after night? Maybe you wouldnt mind but come tell me after you have experienced that if you feel the same. And being that alot of these games are still dominated by the demographic that is concurrent to those derogatives, you probably wont. It seems saying the derogatives of OTHER demographics is the thing we need to "wipe our P----sies" and get over.
Anyway, back to my earlier point: games want to make money. Hate speech may become a thing that makes them lose money. And lets not make out game devs as "big Brother". I am sure they are taking action due to the number of complaints they have received from the gamers and or parents of people that have purchased the game. This isnt any "moral" ground they are making in order to limit free speech. If hate speech increased subs I am sure they would take the other tactic of telling players that dont like it to use the word filter. No ones trying to limit your ability to speak freely, dont take it personally. What they are trying to limit is persons leaving their game and a decline of subs. Its about money first and foremost. So Um, just wipe your pussies and get over it.
This is nothing new and happnes all the time in every MMO I've ever played. The internet allows people to act in ways they normaly wouldn't, especially since the consequnces are almost non-existent. If someone offends with me hate speach or similair negative comments, I block their access to me and report them to the game moderators. This saves me against unnecessary bull---- and allows me to enjoy the game.
The more disturbing thing is that people don't just say things like they wish hilter had succeeded, they mean them.
I don't really understand it myself. After reading enough anonymous online sources, playing mmos, etc, I've simply concluded that most people only feign decency, and deep down inside they are twisted and ignorant.
I disagree. I think they are just twisted and NOT ignorant.
People ahve to feign decency in RL because there are consequences. Deep down, most people are selfish and they give in to our instinct. After all, why racism exists? It is in our genes to treat people we associate with, and like us BETTER than the outsiders. There are plenty of research backing this "group" effect out.
And anoymous online games is one of the few outlets where people can actually behave according to their instincts without consequences.
This "education will cure racism" view .. i do NOT buy. Education will give people knowledge and KNOW about racism. I doubt it will change attitude deep down fueled by milleniums of evoluation.
The more disturbing thing is that people don't just say things like they wish hilter had succeeded, they mean them.
I don't really understand it myself. After reading enough anonymous online sources, playing mmos, etc, I've simply concluded that most people only feign decency, and deep down inside they are twisted and ignorant.
I disagree. I think they are just twisted and NOT ignorant.
People ahve to feign decency in RL because there are consequences. Deep down, most people are selfish and they give in to our instinct. After all, why racism exists? It is in our genes to treat people we associate with, and like us BETTER than the outsiders. There are plenty of research backing this "group" effect out.
And anoymous online games is one of the few outlets where people can actually behave according to their instincts without consequences.
This "education will cure racism" view .. i do NOT buy. Education will give people knowledge and KNOW about racism. I doubt it will change attitude deep down fueled by milleniums of evoluation.
I think you're wrong on that one. How do you determine your own "group"? Is it Religion? Is it skin color? Is it nationality? What if your of mixed race, or a nationality with a mixed culture? I was always brought up in a mixed society, I've never felt the need on the internet or otherwise to attack anyone else based on any of those things.
Being a closet racist and letting loose on the internet IS ignorant. For one you don't lash out at any particular race as its anonymous. These people just choose a name or someone that they decide they don't like, and focus their hate on them. Thats ignorant, I'm sorry if you can't see that. Not everyone is like that, and it makes me wonder if you are.
The point I'm making, is that projecting racists speech on anyone that is listening at the time is inane and ridiculous. Letting ignorant people bother you in a game though is just as bad though. "Thicker skin" isn't needed. (I know, those tough guys sound so tough when saying it) but moderation on the part of the player is needed if they dislike the community they are playing with. I don't think it relies on the game companies other than to provide the tools to create your ideal gaming experience.
Competitiveness + anonymity = douche bag behavior.
Is anyone really surprised? People talk trash during all forms of competitive activities, sports, gambling and gaming. The problem is that with the anonymity that comes with being on the internet and readily available VoIP communication, it has become so much easier for people to talk trash to each other. The plus side is that whereas in real life you can get a beating for stepping out of line, on the internet, you're virtually untouchable.
There is nothing you can do about it. Companies can hire GMs and implement all sorts of filters but as long as there is anonymity and competitive gaming, the trash talking and the abuse will continue.
Those who have played MMOs on PvP and PvE servers will notice that 9 times out of 10 (EVE being the exception) most PvP servers are filled with trash talking douche bags while PvE servers tend to be milder. Competition brings out the worst in us and anonymity allows us to get away with it. It's human nature.
Eve is not an exception...spend more time in low sec where people talk trash from stations.
That's true. However, I've seen less trash talking on EVE than in other games. Maybe it's my personal experience but regardless of which, my point was that competition and anonymity bring out the worst in people.
So what do you think? Does hate speech ruin our online experience, or is it just part of the online world?
First, being raised free has taught me that there is only one type of speech: FREE. Hate speech doesnt exist. That is some made up nonsense so that someone could become a member in a 'protected class'. That has created an ever growing list of 'protected classes'. The 'nanny state'rs' have lined up to get their rules applied to everyone else. The only time that I see race, gender(aside from a beautiful woman), sexual preference, vegetarians, political persuasion, religious belief, or any other personal characteristic besides human is when that person feels the need to make it a point of recognition. You do not need oppressive laws to 'protect' you from speech. Stand up! Stand with me and the MAJORITY of others.
Most of us dont care if you're gay! We dont care if you're black!. We do no care if you're religious(a prayer for me is appreciated, thank you, and bless you)! You're not any different than I am. You deserve no special privilages. We all bleed. We all breathe oxygen. I believe we're all born equal, but it ends there. Equality gets you mediocrity. Life is unfair. Together we forge ahead.
Wise up! You're a human being. You matter to us for that fact, and that fact alone!! Put the special intrest BS to the side and stand together. I honestly dont think people realize how we've let these 'protections' degrade us. Anyone honestly think we'd have an Octomom if society still shunned that type of incorrigible behavior? No way.
What has been destroyed by this?
Simple. Personal awareness and accountability. I want others to know me for my actions. Good or bad. I do not want people to know me as the guy who has sex with women. The white guy. The american(although very proud of it). These things do not define who I am. My kindness does. My ability to declare my own sin infront of others does. My thoughtfulness when the reality hits that I am not the only one with problems. My best foot forward does.
If I make mistakes, I police myself. I constantly reach out to others if I can help them. I do not need anyone to force me to. Instead of engaging the offensive people, simply inform the innocent how to move on. Stand with the innocent. Its not necessary to accost the individual/s with whom you/others feel hurt by. This is about speech not violence, that I could elaborate on, but its not the same discussion.
With regards to games. Every game I have ever played online has had safegaurds in place. Unfortunately the law requires it to protect the innocent, instead of the other humans standing with the innocent, and making these issues drop significantly in occurance.
What problems are solved by handing the incident off to someone else to control? None. I submit it actually allows the problem to persist without real meaningful resolution. Sometimes inflames the situation altogether.
It is our responsibility to handle this situation, not the law. We are given the tools to seriously hinder individuals from interacting with our community. Its called an Ignore, Block, or Mute. Inform your friends and others in your community on what actions to take against the offenders. These actions reduce and likely removes the possibility of ever crossing their path again. When you retaliate or attempt to accost others it only exacerbates the proplem. I've never been verbally threatened, cursed at, or even attacked personally through speech that has ever made me think that I needed to have another human beings speech controlled by the law or other entitiy. NEVER!
I know thats not enough for some of you. These people who hurt your feelings with a 'bad' word should be removed from all games forever and ever and ever.
Right?
Wrong! Have you made a mistake? I bet you have. I bet you've made a few mistakes. I bet you've hurt someones feelings(accidentally or purposely). Are you doomed to isolation for the rest of your life? Are your freedoms taken? Likely not.
My point is again, that it is our responsibility to take action appropriately with the tools given, that hold those offenders accountable by limiting the community involvement that they have. When those people realize the impact it has had on their gaming, and moreso their lives socially, it allows them the chance to redeem themselves and return to the community and/or another community and function appropriately in society at large.
As much as it should not be needed: This is my opinion in detail on the topic, thnks for reading and I welcome any comments, in favor or opposed.
So what do you think? Does hate speech ruin our online experience, or is it just part of the online world?
First, being raised free has taught me that there is only one type of speech: FREE. Hate speech doesnt exist. That is some made up nonsense so that someone could become a member in a 'protected class'. That has created an ever growing list of 'protected classes'. The 'nanny state'rs' have lined up to get their rules applied to everyone else. The only time that I see race, gender(aside from a beautiful woman), sexual preference, vegetarians, political persuasion, religious belief, or any other personal characteristic besides human is when that person feels the need to make it a point of recognition. You do not need oppressive laws to 'protect' you from speech. Stand up! Stand with me and the MAJORITY of others.
You sound like a right wing conservative. Are you talking about your own convictions or do you stand for some majority. I am not sure where your coming from. I will assume that you speak for yourself and leave it at that. To respond to some points....
NO one wants to be a protected class...they are protected because of the atrocities inflicted upon them thruout history. If you dont want protected classes, talk to the oppressors about that subject. Their oppressions has CREATED the protected classes, not the other way around. As far as oppressive laws protecting us from speech, I do not see a gaming company protecting its interest (ie: limiting the amount of subs it loses due to Hate speech running rampant) as enacting oppressive laws. Stop looking at this in terms of gaming, as some moral ground. They dont want it because they are afraid of losing business. On a personal level everyone has their own opinion on whats hate speech and how much of it they can tolerate. And no I wont be "standing with you". The Tea party is THAT way>>>>
Most of us dont care if you're gay! We dont care if you're black!. We do no care if you're religious(a prayer for me is appreciated, thank you, and bless you)! You're not any different than I am. You deserve no special privilages. We all bleed. We all breathe oxygen. I believe we're all born equal, but it ends there. Equality gets you mediocrity. Life is unfair. Together we forge ahead.
Wrong. Many people DO IN FACT CARE if your gay/Black/female/ etc. et al. Thats where you are dead wrong. Personal prejudices, racism and discrimmination is rampant in American culture. To pretend it doesnt exist is equivilent to being an ostrich and sticking your head in the sand.
Wise up! You're a human being. You matter to us for that fact, and that fact alone!! Put the special intrest BS to the side and stand together. I honestly dont think people realize how we've let these 'protections' degrade us. Anyone honestly think we'd have an Octomom if society still shunned that type of incorrigible behavior? No way.
If you were anything other than a white male saying this perhaps it would get me thinking.....
What has been destroyed by this?
Simple. Personal awareness and accountability. I want others to know me for my actions. Good or bad. I do not want people to know me as the guy who has sex with women. The white guy. The american(although very proud of it). These things do not define who I am. My kindness does. My ability to declare my own sin infront of others does. My thoughtfulness when the reality hits that I am not the only one with problems. My best foot forward does.
Assuming laws destroy personal awareness and accountibility is nonsense. They in fact remind us of it. Not everyone has the "best foot" forward. Some people are stupid, racist, ignorant and need to be kept in check. Laws do that. Punishment does that. The threat of retribution does that. Sorry, but your speaking a bunch of nonsense here. Some individuals arent fit to be around or live with, these individuals need to be kept on a leash. Such has been the case with mankind since the beginning of time.
If I make mistakes, I police myself. I constantly reach out to others if I can help them. I do not need anyone to force me to. Instead of engaging the offensive people, simply inform the innocent how to move on. Stand with the innocent. Its not necessary to accost the individual/s with whom you/others feel hurt by. This is about speech not violence, that I could elaborate on, but its not the same discussion.
Good for you. Not everyone "polices themselves".
With regards to games. Every game I have ever played online has had safegaurds in place. Unfortunately the law requires it to protect the innocent, instead of the other humans standing with the innocent, and making these issues drop significantly in occurance.
What problems are solved by handing the incident off to someone else to control? None. I submit it actually allows the problem to persist without real meaningful resolution. Sometimes inflames the situation altogether.
I dont think anyone is looking for "meaningful resolution." A racist that belives that Hitler should have "won" isnt being redeemed anytime soon. Onces a klansman always a klansman....Its about not having to be subjected to their hate. Its really as simple as that.
It is our responsibility to handle this situation, not the law. We are given the tools to seriously hinder individuals from interacting with our community. Its called an Ignore, Block, or Mute. Inform your friends and others in your community on what actions to take against the offenders. These actions reduce and likely removes the possibility of ever crossing their path again. When you retaliate or attempt to accost others it only exacerbates the proplem. I've never been verbally threatened, cursed at, or even attacked personally through speech that has ever made me think that I needed to have another human beings speech controlled by the law or other entitiy. NEVER!
So lets have a race war and anarchy on the internet.
I know thats not enough for some of you. These people who hurt your feelings with a 'bad' word should be removed from all games forever and ever and ever.
Right?
Wrong! Have you made a mistake? I bet you have. I bet you've made a few mistakes. I bet you've hurt someones feelings(accidentally or purposely). Are you doomed to isolation for the rest of your life? Are your freedoms taken? Likely not.
Stop exaggerating.
My point is again, that it is our responsibility to take action appropriately with the tools given, that hold those offenders accountable by limiting the community involvement that they have. When those people realize the impact it has had on their gaming, and moreso their lives socially, it allows them the chance to redeem themselves and return to the community and/or another community and function appropriately in society at large.
As much as it should not be needed: This is my opinion in detail on the topic, thnks for reading and I welcome any comments, in favor or opposed.
yadda yadda yadda, you get my point. Laws are there for a reason and its too keep knuckleheads in check. Without law there is chaos. Gaming companies are interested in making money not chaos. Stop taking this personally and as an affront on your ideals.
Sportmanship has gone down the drain. Competition has turned into a battle of who can come up with the best "I f*cked your mom" or the best racial slur. Players only feel good when they achieve something, and the moment they are blocked from achieving something by someone who is stronger than they are, well.....you know what happens. What happened to sportmanship and just playing for fun? Why is there a need to constantly win otherwise it's not fun?
+1 internet to anyone who can link this issue (the one noted above) with the current crop of MMOs ....
Its all part of the fun, just laugh it off or mute if you can't handle it.
How are racial slurs and other hateful speech fun?
I ask the same thing about theme park MMORPGs, different people find different things humorous. I'm sure we've all heard a "racist" joke and laughed at it, if you don't like it you can /ignore.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Its all part of the fun, just laugh it off or mute if you can't handle it.
How are racial slurs and other hateful speech fun?
I ask the same thing about theme park MMORPGs, different people find different things humorous. I'm sure we've all heard a "racist" joke and laughed at it, if you don't like it you can /ignore.
Jokes are a different subject for another discussion. We're talking about people sitting in chat calling people words that I won't dare post here that have horrible connotations and making extremely crude and vulgar insults towards everyone. If anyone finds this behavior funny I feel you have a lot of growing up to do.
Nurtured hatered corrodes everything it touches. It is a terrible thing to live by it. Video games or elsewhere. People hide it under pretense of fun and simple mockery, but it is a poison. Hate and prejudice are a poison, able to ruin all things.
The worst thing is, many accept it as if it where a destiny that internet language gets so bad. It is the decision and doings of people! I have no kids, only a niece and a nephew. But in NO WAY in the world if it were up to me would I EVER expose them to internet, gaming culture or TV in any but the most controlled amount or way. And I say that as an avid gamer. The way to act to talk and all is something I would NEVER EVER see kids grow up with. These days I am close to saying, make all online gaming 18+. If I had kids, no way in hell I would allow them to enter online culture unguided and uncontrolled.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Its all part of the fun, just laugh it off or mute if you can't handle it.
How are racial slurs and other hateful speech fun?
I ask the same thing about theme park MMORPGs, different people find different things humorous. I'm sure we've all heard a "racist" joke and laughed at it, if you don't like it you can /ignore.
Jokes are a different subject for another discussion. We're talking about people sitting in chat calling people words that I won't dare post here that have horrible connotations and making extremely crude and vulgar insults towards everyone. If anyone finds this behavior funny I feel you have a lot of growing up to do.
Well those type are just muppets and I ignore them, never think about it enough to get stressed over a few muppets in an online game. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would feel insulted, it's like having a retard calling you an idiot, you'd either be too embaressed to say anything (embaressed for him) or you'd laugh or ignore him.
The unfortunate part is that any global chat channel often gets hijacked by the retards, if it's a trade channel or something specific I think they should get a one month ban from using that channel if they menace it.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well those type are just muppets and I ignore them, never think about it enough to get stressed over a few muppets in an online game. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would feel insulted, it's like having a retard calling you an idiot, you'd either be too embaressed to say anything (embaressed for him) or you'd laugh or ignore him.
The unfortunate part is that any global chat channel often gets hijacked by the retards, if it's a trade channel or something specific I think they should get a one month ban from using that channel if they menace it.
Ignoring creates the illusion that the issue is no more, when in fact, you didn't fix anything. The problem is still there.
Here's a good exemple of what the issue is at the moment. Kids trying to mesure their E-Peens through various insults, racial slurs, etc. Ignoring doesn't fix the issue.
Yes you can ignore them, but a new one will pop up soon after. This reminds me of BanList on Warcraft III for DotA. A program where you could register a player's username with a message such as "Leaver, Flame" etc so you can kick him before the match starts. But regardless of how many users you'd "ban", you'd still end up with the same issue in the next game, someone would leave, flame, QQ, etc. Hell, back when I used to play, I had over 2000 names on my BanList yet would always end up in matches where players would leave, flame or QQ.
Comments
I was having a conversation with a co-worker of mine about gaming. Now, under normal circumstances, this wouldn't matter, but for the sake of the topic, he happens to be gay. I got curious about how "gay" is used a a perjorative and if it offended him. He rolled his eyes, said "No, I use it all the time the same way." He then followed up with what has become my phrase of the week: "Some people just need to wipe their pussy and get over themselves."
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Your co-worker is now officially my favorite person.
Edit: "Mine too, by the way." -My wife
Old, old news. There was a lot of chat like this when playing games as old as Mechwarrior and Starfleet Battles online. It's not just part of the online world, it's part of the ACTUAL world, and has been ever since the first caveman tribe hated the other lot in the next valley. Sad but true, but the good news is that today it's usually limited to the educationally challenged and socially inept. The bad news is that there's a hell of a lot of them around!
I think it sums it up nicely.
I don't think there's any doubt that "hate speech", racial slurs, etc. are bad, but this sterilization of anything percieved as negative is getting ridiculous. OMG, someone said the N-word! Is it bad? Yes. Is it new? No. Hearing the utterance of n, followed by the sound of a short i, a pair of g's, and an "er", is not going to suddenly cause the world to stop spinning. Shun the person. Use censoring tools available to you, like mute, ignore, etc. You have the power to make it go away. Otherwise, you're only calling more attention to it than is necessary.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
First thing i do is deactivate the word filters,
honestly if you can't handle it use filters, play only with friends and stay out of voice chat with random people, if a game forces to stay nice and helpfull it makes me vomit all over it and leave
Btw don't misunderstand me i don't rage nor flame in any game but i hate censorship of such with a passion.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Eve is not an exception...spend more time in low sec where people talk trash from stations.
Maybe it's because the only place left where you can speak your mind on such issues involving race, religion and sexuality without being arrested is the internet now? It used to be a free society where you were allowed to dislike homosexuals (it was illegal when I was growing up) or voice your opinions on Africans/Asians or Muslims no matter how ignorant someone else believed them to be. Fast forward 20 years and now in my country you'd be arrested for just speaking to a friend on such matters in a public house or anywhere outside your own home and sometimes even in your own home if overheard.
The internet is the only place you can say such things without the thought police kicking in your door and dragging you infront of a judge ... for now!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Mine too!
It's not about being soft or have tough skin. There is nothing in that. I really doubt this question has been raised from someone /occasionally/ saying 'bitch'. 'asshole' or whatever.
You have to pick. Is it ok to harass people, being a bully, or not. The society is moving forward and is developing. From being the victim of a bully needing to change school to that the actual bully is the one needing to move. We as a society has moved past alot of things. Telling the kid to HTFU is the easy solution.
Since when is it be ok to not meet other people with respect? And with the age we are in, when alot of the community is on the internet, we really should move the everyday respect we ask from others to be on the internets aswell.
How do we get there?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
This so called "Co worker" is probably full of it or a product of your imagination for the sake of this thread discussion. Living in NYC, knowing several gay persons and have two BFF that are gay ("and born that way" as they would say) I beleive they would beg to differ. When the whole "Thats Ghey!" launched on the internet several years ago (and into the rl) I did ask them about it and yes they did inform me that they found the term, when used excessively, offensive. Are they overly sensitive? Hell no. THey live in a society that stereotypes gays in media all the time (subtlely and not so subtlely) so they definitely have thick skins. But to hear it every other sentence in the way it is/was being used in online gaming? No, I dont think anyone would want to hear a derogative of their race/gender/religious belief/sexual orientation in that way. Would any of you care to hear White Trash, Trailer Park Trash or H-----y within every sentence night after night? Maybe you wouldnt mind but come tell me after you have experienced that if you feel the same. And being that alot of these games are still dominated by the demographic that is concurrent to those derogatives, you probably wont. It seems saying the derogatives of OTHER demographics is the thing we need to "wipe our P----sies" and get over.
Anyway, back to my earlier point: games want to make money. Hate speech may become a thing that makes them lose money. And lets not make out game devs as "big Brother". I am sure they are taking action due to the number of complaints they have received from the gamers and or parents of people that have purchased the game. This isnt any "moral" ground they are making in order to limit free speech. If hate speech increased subs I am sure they would take the other tactic of telling players that dont like it to use the word filter. No ones trying to limit your ability to speak freely, dont take it personally. What they are trying to limit is persons leaving their game and a decline of subs. Its about money first and foremost. So Um, just wipe your pussies and get over it.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
This is nothing new and happnes all the time in every MMO I've ever played. The internet allows people to act in ways they normaly wouldn't, especially since the consequnces are almost non-existent. If someone offends with me hate speach or similair negative comments, I block their access to me and report them to the game moderators. This saves me against unnecessary bull---- and allows me to enjoy the game.
I disagree. I think they are just twisted and NOT ignorant.
People ahve to feign decency in RL because there are consequences. Deep down, most people are selfish and they give in to our instinct. After all, why racism exists? It is in our genes to treat people we associate with, and like us BETTER than the outsiders. There are plenty of research backing this "group" effect out.
And anoymous online games is one of the few outlets where people can actually behave according to their instincts without consequences.
This "education will cure racism" view .. i do NOT buy. Education will give people knowledge and KNOW about racism. I doubt it will change attitude deep down fueled by milleniums of evoluation.
I think you're wrong on that one. How do you determine your own "group"? Is it Religion? Is it skin color? Is it nationality? What if your of mixed race, or a nationality with a mixed culture? I was always brought up in a mixed society, I've never felt the need on the internet or otherwise to attack anyone else based on any of those things.
Being a closet racist and letting loose on the internet IS ignorant. For one you don't lash out at any particular race as its anonymous. These people just choose a name or someone that they decide they don't like, and focus their hate on them. Thats ignorant, I'm sorry if you can't see that. Not everyone is like that, and it makes me wonder if you are.
The point I'm making, is that projecting racists speech on anyone that is listening at the time is inane and ridiculous. Letting ignorant people bother you in a game though is just as bad though. "Thicker skin" isn't needed. (I know, those tough guys sound so tough when saying it) but moderation on the part of the player is needed if they dislike the community they are playing with. I don't think it relies on the game companies other than to provide the tools to create your ideal gaming experience.
That's true. However, I've seen less trash talking on EVE than in other games. Maybe it's my personal experience but regardless of which, my point was that competition and anonymity bring out the worst in people.
It is one of the downsides that come with being "Anonymous" when you are in the virtual world
some people say the stupidest shit..i have been racially attacked a number of times but i just ignore it.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
First, being raised free has taught me that there is only one type of speech: FREE. Hate speech doesnt exist. That is some made up nonsense so that someone could become a member in a 'protected class'. That has created an ever growing list of 'protected classes'. The 'nanny state'rs' have lined up to get their rules applied to everyone else. The only time that I see race, gender(aside from a beautiful woman), sexual preference, vegetarians, political persuasion, religious belief, or any other personal characteristic besides human is when that person feels the need to make it a point of recognition. You do not need oppressive laws to 'protect' you from speech. Stand up! Stand with me and the MAJORITY of others.
Most of us dont care if you're gay! We dont care if you're black!. We do no care if you're religious(a prayer for me is appreciated, thank you, and bless you)! You're not any different than I am. You deserve no special privilages. We all bleed. We all breathe oxygen. I believe we're all born equal, but it ends there. Equality gets you mediocrity. Life is unfair. Together we forge ahead.
Wise up! You're a human being. You matter to us for that fact, and that fact alone!! Put the special intrest BS to the side and stand together. I honestly dont think people realize how we've let these 'protections' degrade us. Anyone honestly think we'd have an Octomom if society still shunned that type of incorrigible behavior? No way.
What has been destroyed by this?
Simple. Personal awareness and accountability. I want others to know me for my actions. Good or bad. I do not want people to know me as the guy who has sex with women. The white guy. The american(although very proud of it). These things do not define who I am. My kindness does. My ability to declare my own sin infront of others does. My thoughtfulness when the reality hits that I am not the only one with problems. My best foot forward does.
If I make mistakes, I police myself. I constantly reach out to others if I can help them. I do not need anyone to force me to. Instead of engaging the offensive people, simply inform the innocent how to move on. Stand with the innocent. Its not necessary to accost the individual/s with whom you/others feel hurt by. This is about speech not violence, that I could elaborate on, but its not the same discussion.
With regards to games. Every game I have ever played online has had safegaurds in place. Unfortunately the law requires it to protect the innocent, instead of the other humans standing with the innocent, and making these issues drop significantly in occurance.
What problems are solved by handing the incident off to someone else to control? None. I submit it actually allows the problem to persist without real meaningful resolution. Sometimes inflames the situation altogether.
It is our responsibility to handle this situation, not the law. We are given the tools to seriously hinder individuals from interacting with our community. Its called an Ignore, Block, or Mute. Inform your friends and others in your community on what actions to take against the offenders. These actions reduce and likely removes the possibility of ever crossing their path again. When you retaliate or attempt to accost others it only exacerbates the proplem. I've never been verbally threatened, cursed at, or even attacked personally through speech that has ever made me think that I needed to have another human beings speech controlled by the law or other entitiy. NEVER!
I know thats not enough for some of you. These people who hurt your feelings with a 'bad' word should be removed from all games forever and ever and ever.
Right?
Wrong! Have you made a mistake? I bet you have. I bet you've made a few mistakes. I bet you've hurt someones feelings(accidentally or purposely). Are you doomed to isolation for the rest of your life? Are your freedoms taken? Likely not.
My point is again, that it is our responsibility to take action appropriately with the tools given, that hold those offenders accountable by limiting the community involvement that they have. When those people realize the impact it has had on their gaming, and moreso their lives socially, it allows them the chance to redeem themselves and return to the community and/or another community and function appropriately in society at large.
As much as it should not be needed: This is my opinion in detail on the topic, thnks for reading and I welcome any comments, in favor or opposed.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Sportmanship has gone down the drain. Competition has turned into a battle of who can come up with the best "I f*cked your mom" or the best racial slur. Players only feel good when they achieve something, and the moment they are blocked from achieving something by someone who is stronger than they are, well.....you know what happens. What happened to sportmanship and just playing for fun? Why is there a need to constantly win otherwise it's not fun?
+1 internet to anyone who can link this issue (the one noted above) with the current crop of MMOs ....
Its all part of the fun, just laugh it off or mute if you can't handle it.
How are racial slurs and other hateful speech fun?
I ask the same thing about theme park MMORPGs, different people find different things humorous. I'm sure we've all heard a "racist" joke and laughed at it, if you don't like it you can /ignore.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Jokes are a different subject for another discussion. We're talking about people sitting in chat calling people words that I won't dare post here that have horrible connotations and making extremely crude and vulgar insults towards everyone. If anyone finds this behavior funny I feel you have a lot of growing up to do.
Nurtured hatered corrodes everything it touches. It is a terrible thing to live by it. Video games or elsewhere. People hide it under pretense of fun and simple mockery, but it is a poison. Hate and prejudice are a poison, able to ruin all things.
The worst thing is, many accept it as if it where a destiny that internet language gets so bad. It is the decision and doings of people! I have no kids, only a niece and a nephew. But in NO WAY in the world if it were up to me would I EVER expose them to internet, gaming culture or TV in any but the most controlled amount or way. And I say that as an avid gamer. The way to act to talk and all is something I would NEVER EVER see kids grow up with. These days I am close to saying, make all online gaming 18+. If I had kids, no way in hell I would allow them to enter online culture unguided and uncontrolled.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Well those type are just muppets and I ignore them, never think about it enough to get stressed over a few muppets in an online game. I find it difficult to understand why anyone would feel insulted, it's like having a retard calling you an idiot, you'd either be too embaressed to say anything (embaressed for him) or you'd laugh or ignore him.
The unfortunate part is that any global chat channel often gets hijacked by the retards, if it's a trade channel or something specific I think they should get a one month ban from using that channel if they menace it.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ignoring creates the illusion that the issue is no more, when in fact, you didn't fix anything. The problem is still there.
http://kotaku.com/5476938/theres-two-sides-to-every-xbox-live-banning
Here's a good exemple of what the issue is at the moment. Kids trying to mesure their E-Peens through various insults, racial slurs, etc. Ignoring doesn't fix the issue.
Yes you can ignore them, but a new one will pop up soon after. This reminds me of BanList on Warcraft III for DotA. A program where you could register a player's username with a message such as "Leaver, Flame" etc so you can kick him before the match starts. But regardless of how many users you'd "ban", you'd still end up with the same issue in the next game, someone would leave, flame, QQ, etc. Hell, back when I used to play, I had over 2000 names on my BanList yet would always end up in matches where players would leave, flame or QQ.